S01.E08: The James Bond Clause

[dubbel zout]

In London, Hal's actions cause friction as Kate heads to Paris with Dennison to get a handle on the Lenkov situation, which soon takes a shocking turn.

Drops on Netflix 4/20.

[metaphor]

I love this series so far. Keri Russell is fantastic as the lead, and the supporting cast is uniformly excellent. I find the dynamics between the characters very compelling. I hope Netflix renews the show for season 2, as I'm definitely interested to see more, and learn the fates of Hal, Stuart and Ronnie (they seemed pretty distant from the blast, but the look on Kate's face at the end seems to indicate that she'd gotten pretty bad personal news). 

Edited April 22, 2023 by metaphor

[dubbel zout]

Well, that certainly took an unexpected turn. I wish we'd gotten a bit more background on the MP so we'd know why he was targeted, or at least deemed expendable if Hal was the actual target.

Kate certainly warmed up to Margaret Roylin despite the warnings. This was something else I wish had been developed a bit more.

I have an exceptionally hard time believing that a PM would cause the death of 41 servicemen and -women solely for political gain. Take advantage of something like that? Absolutely. Give the go-ahead for it to happen? No way. 

The tone of this show reminded me not only of The West Wing but of The Good Wife and The Good Fight. Kind of breezy with some politics thrown in.

[Artsda]

Well now what ever the bomb guy wanted to tell Hal is going to be more important to know.  

The PM bombing his own ship to start wars? Yikes.  

[meira.hand]

20 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

The tone of this show reminded me not only of The West Wing but of The Good Wife and The Good Fight. Kind of breezy with some politics thrown in.

Well the creator-writer-producer (Debora Cahn) of this series was a writer-producer on The West Wing and later Homeland, so it is no coincident.

[EtheltoTillie]

I want to point out that they went back to the Cinderella theme in the last episode.  She got dressed up for the ball.  She left suddenly and was walking down the big staircase with her high heeled shoes in her hands.  And the "prince" was running after her. 

On 4/22/2023 at 12:06 PM, dubbel zout said:

Well, that certainly took an unexpected turn. I wish we'd gotten a bit more background on the MP so we'd know why he was targeted, or at least deemed expendable if Hal was the actual target.

Kate certainly warmed up to Margaret Roylin despite the warnings. This was something else I wish had been developed a bit more.

I have an exceptionally hard time believing that a PM would cause the death of 41 servicemen and -women solely for political gain. Take advantage of something like that? Absolutely. Give the go-ahead for it to happen? No way. 

The tone of this show reminded me not only of The West Wing but of The Good Wife and The Good Fight. Kind of breezy with some politics thrown in.

I think there will be more twists ahead on the PM thing.  Nothing has been at face value yet on this show. 

[A coin in the hand]

I knew it was a short series, but I was expecting two more episodes. I found this series to be really good. I like all the characters and how they are written. Wish I could look as good as the CIA woman--not going to attempt to try to spell her name---does with that haircut. 

I watch a lot of Swedish Noir and brutal British killing shows, so this was like a nice, breezy fun time for me. Since they don't know if it will be renewed, we don't have any scripts polished and ready nor filmed scenes in the can. It may be a long wait. 

 

Le sigh.

[Aulty]

On 4/24/2023 at 7:58 AM, A coin in the hand said:

I knew it was a short series, but I was expecting two more episodes.

Thats my biggest issue. 6 episodes? They haven't even made a dent in everything thats supposedly going on. Remember when Kiefer Sutherland was cranky for two dozen full episodes (I know it was due to the show's format, but still) and even The Americans were a good watch for 13 weeks. This doesn't even get me over a weekend or medium-haul flight/train journey. BY all means, if they can release a pack of 6 episodes consistently every 6 months. But if we have to wait the now common ~16 months for the next installment, they can pull the other one.

Edit: 8 episodes of course 🤥, but I still think they should've gotten into the story a bit more

Edited April 26, 2023 by Aulty

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, Aulty said:

Thats my biggest issue. 6 episodes?

There were 8 episodes in this first season.  I do hope Netflix planned a second season automatically (which I do think they do with many of their series depending on budget.)

Edited April 26, 2023 by Irlandesa

[merylinkid]

WOW.   What an ending.   I just binged the whole series this week.   At the end all I could think was "Whose been hit?  Whose been hit?"   Which if the writer/producer was on the West Wing that makes sense.

BTW, Ms. CIA Lady, your behavior is exactly why office romances are frowned on.    You are still CIA Station Chief and Stuart is still DCM.   You still need to give him information and he still needs to ask for it.   Even if you broke up.   

But WOW what a show.   I hope it can hold the magic.   Definitely hoping for a season 2 and not an Emerald Point NAS ending (google it kids, and yes I am old).

[pasdetrois]

All the rapid, intense talking and dashing about is so Washington, although of course there are also seemingly endless meetings where everyone drones on.

I've been wondering how much Hal is using Kate, and I assumed he would try for secretary of state. But as EtheltoTillie says, nothing is as it seems.

Great series and I'm disappointed there wasn't more in this first season. I eagerly await season 2.

[eclectcmoi]

I binged this show in two days and now I want MORE!  Admittedly some of the dialogue zips around so much like a pinball machine that miss some nuances.  The relationships between the characters though have me hooked! 

[MsMalin]

I too wish there were 10. Fully expect a season 2.

Sorry if this has already been discussed but Keri Russell has my respect for the great acting she did in the Americans. That was a fantastic show.

[dubbel zout]

I think eight episodes is the right length; any more and things would drag on, IMO. I like the Brit model of in and out in six. Leave 'em wanting more!

[SallyAlbright]

After The Americans, I would basically watch Keri Russell do her taxes but this was genuinely good. She and Matthew Rhys had such good chemistry that I figured her pairing with Rufus Sewell would be a letdown, but I thought they were great together (and this is a great role for him). After that ending, they need to announce a Season 2 ASAP! 

[shrewd.buddha]

It was an engaging series.  We were engaged.  I appreciated that they went the extra mile to have location scenes in Paris and the Louvre.  
The escalating, never-ending, crisis situations and political maneuvering, manipulating and pivoting seemed exhausting.  It was a bit unbelievable that almost everyone in Kate's circle of associates were playing at the top of their game.

On 4/27/2023 at 8:02 AM, merylinkid said:

BTW, Ms. CIA Lady, your behavior is exactly why office romances are frowned on. 

CIA Lady had already imploded their relationship when she straight-up lied to the guy about being approved for him to "read her in" about the VP position situation.  Are all CIA agents trained to be lying assholes? 
**correction to this later ..

Somewhat unfortunately though, the last taste is my mouth was disappointment ..  for an eight episode season that most likely will not return for over a year, they threw too many balls into the air at the end. 
Will there be an assassination or an arrest?  Who will survive the car bombing?  Who will be revealed as real perpetrator of the  ship attack?  

After a long break, they are not likely to pick up at the moment we were left at.  And I am not fond of the trope-y "six months later" segue  jumps, where we get hints and glimpses of how the cliffhanger events played out.  (I have watched too many of these type shows, apparently.)

Edited May 3, 2023 by shrewd.buddha
correction

[Ottis]

On 4/23/2023 at 8:15 AM, meira.hand said:

Well the creator-writer-producer (Debora Cahn) of this series was a writer-producer on The West Wing and later Homeland, so it is no coincident.

This show felt *a lot* like Homeland, sometimes my mind replaced Kate with Carrie.

On 4/23/2023 at 2:22 PM, EtheltoTillie said:

I think there will be more twists ahead on the PM thing.  Nothing has been at face value yet on this show. 

Agree. He must have much darker motivations (and/or origins) than what we have so far seen. Or maybe he is a genius and playing a long game no one else knows about yet.

On 4/28/2023 at 11:21 AM, pasdetrois said:

All the rapid, intense talking and dashing about is so Washington, although of course there are also seemingly endless meetings where everyone drones on.

Welllll .... intensity and dashing about for no real reason, maybe. Washington is so power focused, and therefore about appearances, that it can be annoying for anyone else who just wants to get stuff done and doesn't care about getting credit.

And all the breathless stuff about who will be in at sec state and Kate being VP ... whatever. That may have been important to the characters, but no one in real life cares - especially about who is VP, unless you are avoiding a downside. There is no upside.

3 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Somewhat unfortunately though, the last taste is my mouth was disappointment ..  for an eight episode season that most likely will not return for over a year, they threw too many balls into the air at the end. 

And some of those balls appeared almost out of nowhere. Whose car was that which blew up, the Tory? Why assassinate him? There was no reason for Hal to have ever gotten into that car after the meeting, so assume it was about the Tory, or just someone with a remote *hoping* someone specific walks by? And the ship attack played some fine hands, it is easy to see why GB's leader would want to show that someone is paying. But the blytheness that he, and the almost feckless US president, decide to act in ways that could have catastrophic impacts was too much. Be a dick, ruin careers, put some people in danger, sure, but start WWIII over that? Or Scottish independence? No.

It was very strange watching Hal, as someone who avidly watched The Man In the High Castle. Hard to shake off the Nazi stink.

[meira.hand]

11 minutes ago, Ottis said:

It was very strange watching Hal, as someone who avidly watched The Man In the High Castle. Hard to shake off the Nazi stink.

For me it was strange seeing him playing an American in London. I have seen him is so many British movies and period series (e.g. Middlemarch, Charles II: The Power and the Passion,Victoria), he always remains a Brit in my mind.

[Zaffy]

Very Good, we watched the whole thing in a day!
Ok, it is a tad unrealistic (and also a tiny bit frustrating) that Kate seems to have the solution for every problem in the universe, but Keri Russell is so good that I can live with it. Actually, the whole cast is marvelous. 
My other problem with it was the cliffhanger with the bomb, where some of our beloved characters might have perished (poor Ronnie was really close I hope she didnt bite the dust..).. I hate this cliffhangers...
Of course I don't think that the Prime Minister ordered the attack at the ship, I wouldn't be surprised though if he has worked with Lenkov in the past for other reasons and wanted to be sure that the latter wouldn't rat him out.  
So, how long till season 2 ??

Edited April 30, 2023 by Zaffy

[justmehere]

On 4/29/2023 at 8:26 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

CIA Lady had already imploded their relationship when she straight-up lied to the guy about being approved for him to "read her in" about the VP position situation. 

"Talk to Heyford. Tell him I said that he could read you in."

Chief of Staff on the video call with CIA lady (Eidra). She didn't lie to him. 

[shrewd.buddha]

On 5/2/2023 at 1:39 AM, justmehere said:

"Talk to Heyford. Tell him I said that he could read you in."

Chief of Staff on the video call with CIA lady (Eidra). She didn't lie to him.

Yes .. I went back and looked for that scene .. and was surprised I didn't remember it the way it happened.
One possible reason might be that my left-logic brain refused to accept that a highly classified secret would be handled like a teenager telling a parent "Mom says it's okay for me to go to Megan's party if it's alright with you."
Or maybe something like "POTUS told me to tell you that it was okay for you to tell me the nuclear launch codes ..  .. cause they're too busy to call you themselves or arrange a group call  ..  even though they call you almost every day anyways .. so, yeah .. "

[Orbert]

I agree.  That didn't feel right to me at all.  Any variation on "you can tell me; so-and-so said it was okay" always reminds me of the mom/dad thing.  Too easy to lie, too easy to play one against the other.

On the other hand, it's easy enough to verify later, and the consequences are far worse than a kid getting grounded.  If it turned out that she lied and Billie hadn't said that, there would be hell to pay.  So you believe it because there's no way she would lie about it; the stakes are too high.

[merylinkid]

This is also about a plan to vet someone for VP.     Not a big deal.   So reading in the CIA station chief who's opinion they may need is not as big a deal as reading someone in on say, the operation to catch the mercenary in France.

[justmehere]

The thing I wondered is why the Chief didn't just tell her, herself. Was there some ethical or legal reason she couldn't share the information but it was OK for Stuart to do so? Or maybe she simply didn't have time for a discussion? Billie could have shared just the basic info and then said, "Talk to Heyford" - which would have verified up front that Eidra had approval to know. Whatever the case, it was an odd way to handle it.

On a more general note - I really enjoyed the show, but it was also kind of exhausting to watch! I wondered about Keri Russell's blood pressure, having to be so intense for so long, acting that role (obviously she's not filming nonstop - but it looked like an exhausting place to have to return to again and again). 

Edited May 3, 2023 by justmehere
Added thought

[Kiss my mutt]

I’m so glad to hear people have stopped focusing on her hair now. This is a superb show. I’m satisfied. 

[Daisychain]

On 4/29/2023 at 2:32 PM, meira.hand said:

On 4/29/2023 at 2:06 PM, Ottis said:

It was very strange watching Hal, as someone who avidly watched The Man In the High Castle. Hard to shake off the Nazi stink.

For me it was strange seeing him playing an American in London. I have seen him is so many British movies and period series (e.g. Middlemarch, Charles II: The Power and the Passion,Victoria), he always remains a Brit in my mind.

Yes, I agree with all of this.  Yet still weirder, many, many, years ago I was our family's tech chief.  By then, my then-husband and I had taken our kids to see A Knight's Tale with Heath Ledger and Rufus Sewell, and Rufus Sewell played the almost mustachio-ed bad guy.  So I already had a Tivo and it took me about 4 hours one day and 3.5 the next to figure out how to add a "DVD player."  Because I didn't understand that televisions could have more than 1 input.  Honestly, this was before the days when YouTube could teach you anything.  Ugh.  Anyhoo, Rufus Sewell, for all his dastardly-ness, managed to put out a somewhat nuanced character.  We still love that movie, and he is still charming.

Omigosh!  My point is that my children picked out A Knight's Tale as the first DVD we bought. 

[kay1864]

One thing I’ve been wondering about: where was Hal ambassador, and why did that end?  Was it because Kate had been named ambassador to Afghanistan? 

[BAForever]

4 hours ago, kay1864 said:

One thing I’ve been wondering about: where was Hal ambassador, and why did that end?  Was it because Kate had been named ambassador to Afghanistan? 

I believe Hal pissed off some very important people, not a huge surprise- he pissed me off all series. Didn't he call the (a) secretary of state a war criminal? He's obviously burned a lot of bridges in his career.

[jabRI]

Don't forget commandeering a flight meant for refugees so he could look like a hero.  The straw that broke her back looking for a divorce.

[Orbert]

Okay, I give up.  What is "The James Bond Clause"?  If there was some reference to it during the episode, I missed it.

[KittyQ]

4 hours ago, Orbert said:

Okay, I give up.  What is "The James Bond Clause"?  If there was some reference to it during the episode, I missed it.

I'm assuming that's the loophole that Dennison referred to when talking assassination vs. arrest. My question was, if his (Dennison's) approval was needed to pivot to assassination, wouldn't that have been more important than just an email, and if it was email, wouldn't it have required more positive action than something like, "If I don't hear from you by 5 pm, I'm going to assume you agree"?

So why the urgency with the phones? Maybe this went over my head, because then there was the explosion. 

[merylinkid]

The phones were bugged.  That's why she took them, put them in her purse and tossed it away from them 

[oldCJ]

The instant Rory Kinnear appeared on the screen in episode one, the surprise twist ending was spoiled for me. He is ALWAYS the villain. Always.

[Kel Varnsen]

This show started really strong for me and is still kind of interesting (I want to know who died) but there is also a lot of annoying dumb crap that really bugs me. Like how so much time was spent this episode talking about how they would arrest Lenovo but no one really talking, or looking into who hired him. 

Not to mention if the whole point is how diplomacy and building relationships is important, where was the US ambassador to France? And how did French intelligence figure out that Lenovo was going to get assassinated and not the CIA.

And lastly no Kate the foreign secretary probably wasn't a diplomatic staff person because his main job is as an elected member of Parliament.

[kwnyc]

Count me In as someone who watched the first episode and then binged the rest.

Among my slight knit pics, or that the Crown is never actually mentioned. Isn't it protocol for the ambassador to the court of St James to present their credentials to the monarch?

And since the prime minister meets regularly with the monarch, they might have mentioned it more.

I'm thinking that the "James Bond clause" might refer to the fact that 007 had a license to kill.

I also think that Kate was damn right to be angry through most of the series, and through my hands up in frustration every time she trusted Hal again.

He set up his wife without her knowledge, to be put through her paces as a potential vice presidential candidate. He'd apparently screwed his career with the state department, and wanted to stay close to power.

She was also passionate about going to Afghanistan, to try to protect women's rights. Apparently it was a thing she had worked long and hard on. And yeah, that could be a breaking point when Hal took a plane that was meant to take refugees to safety.

The only people she could talk straight to were the British foreign minister, and, ironically, the president.

And Michael McKean was really good as the president. I put him up there with a lot of other fictional presidents. David St. Hubbins 4eva!

Now that the show has been renewed for a second season, I'm very interested in finding out who survived. And of course, if the actors get other jobs they can be written out.

And, if you like fast-paced thrillers set in London, if you haven't already, watch Slow Horses. Instead of British actors pretending to be American, it's British actors being really good British actors.

 

 

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, kwnyc said:

And since the prime minister meets regularly with the monarch, they might have mentioned it more

Wasn't there a brief line at some point, about how they had to brief the palace on their plan. I think it was when the plan was to attack the mercenaries in Libya, rather than attacking Russia. But I would have liked to see that scene, just to see if the King said something like "I can't really stop you, but do you really want to launch a military action based on the word of one guy, with no actual evidence?".

2 hours ago, kwnyc said:

And Michael McKean was really good as the president.

He was really good. I just finished Better Call Saul recently, so it was cool to see him in something different. I wish he had gotten more scenes though. At least a scene where he finds out it wasn't actually Russia and is super pissed.

Speaking of the president, Stuart said in this episode that before he told his girlfriend, there were 6 people who knew the VP Kate plan. But I only count 5: POTUS, his chief of Staff, Stuart, Hal and Kate. Who is number 6?

[MerBearHou]

I love the varied career Michael McKean has had -- from Spinal Tap to the President!!

[kassa]

On 4/28/2023 at 11:57 AM, eclectcmoi said:

I binged this show in two days and now I want MORE!  Admittedly some of the dialogue zips around so much like a pinball machine that miss some nuances.  The relationships between the characters though have me hooked! 

Closed captioning works really well on Netflix. You don't even notice it after a while.

On 5/15/2023 at 7:58 PM, kwnyc said:

Among my slight knit pics, or that the Crown is never actually mentioned. Isn't it protocol for the ambassador to the court of St James to present their credentials to the monarch?

And since the prime minister meets regularly with the monarch, they might have mentioned it more.

 

I thought they did address it - that's what all the rehearsing was for?  

Somehow I really don't think the American Ambassador is wandering out of pubs and up the high street with one lone guard 15 feet away while she makes personal calls or has lunch with a friend, but I enjoy the storytelling regardless.

[Orbert]

The closed captioning for this show drives me crazy.  I use CC for shows like this where there are a lot of names and terms I don't know and the people tend to speak very quickly, but a lot of times the captions don't match what they're actually saying.  I don't mind omitting the occassional F-bomb, but sometimes they're just paraphrasing what's spoken on screen, and I guess that's okay because if you can't hear at all, you don't know.  But it throws me off and I replay the last few seconds in my head trying to match things up, which causes me to miss the next several seconds... and eventually I have to just back up and watch the scene again.

[7-Zark-7]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:06 PM, Ottis said:

Whose car was that which blew up, the Tory? Why assassinate him? There was no reason for Hal to have ever gotten into that car after the meeting, so assume it was about the Tory, or just someone with a remote *hoping* someone specific walks by?

I’m assuming the Tory MP Grove wanted to meet with Hal to tip him off (and no one else) that the Lenkov arrest mission is really an assassination, and that he knows why: because Trowbridge ordered the hit on his own military and Lenkov might give him up. And perhaps MP Grove has proof. That’s why his car would be bombed, so he couldn’t tell Hal what he knows, or at least he wouldn’t live long enough to provide evidence. It’s possible they were willing to kill Hal along with him.
 

Ironically, I think Kate may have sealed Grove’s (and anyone else’s near that bomb) fate by calling Roylin, of all people, and tipping her off that Hal and Grove were going to meet. If Trowbridge is behind the attack then so is Roylin, she pulls his strings.

Edited May 22, 2023 by 7-Zark-7

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, 7-Zark-7 said:

I’m assuming the Tory MP Grove wanted to meet with Hal to tip him off (and no one else) that the Lenkov arrest mission is really an assassination, and that he knows why:

That makes sense. The fact that the mission is going to be an assassination can't be that big a secret since French intelligence found out and I am pretty sure the PM didn't tell them.

[7-Zark-7]

French intelligence might know this because the hit is going to happen on their soil. British intelligence is working with them.

[Hanahope]

On 5/16/2023 at 2:06 PM, MerBearHou said:

I love the varied career Michael McKean has had -- from Spinal Tap to the President!!

And before that he was Lenny (of Lenny and Squiggy fame)

[KittyQ]

On 5/15/2023 at 4:58 PM, kwnyc said:

And Michael McKean was really good as the president. I put him up there with a lot of other fictional presidents. David St. Hubbins 4eva!

Haha! I was a little biased against Chuck McGill so it took me a while to warm up to him.

[SlovakPrincess]

Oh shit, I do not have a good feeling about poor Ronnie making it out of that explosion.  :(   I assume Hal and Stuart will be ok.

I truly did not care about Stuart and Eidra's relationship, as the show did little to give them any chemistry and Eidra is fine as a character but not particularly fleshed out.  But I really like Stuart, so that part of the show didn't distract me too much.  

The complicated, messed up Kate / Hal dynamic really worked for me ... and that is not an easy thing to write or communicate on screen.  I really liked Rufus Sewell in this series, and he did great playing a character that is both charming and often NOT trustworthy because he always has his own angle.  

I also liked the dynamic of Kate being torn between (1) just focusing on the immediate crisis as the ambassador to UK, (2) considering positioning herself for VP, and (3) really wanting to go back to her work helping her old contacts from Afghanistan.  

[7-Zark-7]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:01 AM, SlovakPrincess said:

The complicated, messed up Kate / Hal dynamic really worked for me ... and that is not an easy thing to write or communicate on screen.

So true.  It's hard to convey frustration and desire between characters who are already married to each other. The actors have to have the right kind of chemistry to pull this off.

[newsjunkie]

On 5/19/2023 at 3:15 PM, Orbert said:

The closed captioning for this show drives me crazy.  I use CC for shows like this where there are a lot of names and terms I don't know and the people tend to speak very quickly, but a lot of times the captions don't match what they're actually saying.  I don't mind omitting the occassional F-bomb, but sometimes they're just paraphrasing what's spoken on screen, and I guess that's okay because if you can't hear at all, you don't know.  But it throws me off and I replay the last few seconds in my head trying to match things up, which causes me to miss the next several seconds... and eventually I have to just back up and watch the scene again.

I agree about frustrations with the closed captions. I actually don't watch that much Netllix.  ( I got myself a month free trial via a telecom provider to watch the Manifest finale and this show because of the West Wing pedigree) and I actually think they do a better job with having complete closed captions on broadcast TV (network, cable and premium cable ). I noticed similar issues with Manifest even though they were less necessary.

[CarpeFelis]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:11 PM, Daisychain said:

Anyhoo, Rufus Sewell, for all his dastardly-ness, managed to put out a somewhat nuanced character.  We still love that movie, and he is still charming.

Omigosh!  My point is that my children picked out A Knight's Tale as the first DVD we bought. 

Love that movie! And how his character finally got his comeuppance. “You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.”

Rufus Sewell is always fun to watch.

On 5/16/2023 at 11:06 AM, MerBearHou said:

I love the varied career Michael McKean has had -- from Spinal Tap to the President!!

Not to mention Lenny of Lenny and Squiggy…

[Orbert]

A Knight's Tale was my introduction to Rufus Sewell, so I will always see him as Count Adhemar.  Since then I've seen him in other things, and he's always very good, but he's always "Count Adhemar, but mostly good" or "Count Adhemar, but a spy this time", or...

[dubbel zout]

He's very funny as Seth Starkadder in the 1995 movie of Cold Comfort Farm. Perfectly cast.