S01.E03: Long Long Time

[Whimsy]

Quote

When a stranger approaches his compound, survivalist Bill forges an unlikely connection.  Later, Joel and Ellie seek Bill’s guidance. 

Original airdate 1/29/23

[Kate47]

Omg, you guys, why did I cry most of the way through this episode. Surprise appearance of Tess, love story, Offerman singing. What a banger of an episode.

Okay, I lied. I cried through most and wept at the last 30 minutes. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Kate47

[Quickbeam]

Holy shit, that was amazing. Emmy for Nick please. 

[Ireland77]

That was an amazing hour plus of television. 

[Demian]

Man, the rabid gameboys are going to freak the fuck out when they see all the gay.

[AimingforYoko]

Damn, Nick crushed that. I'm guessing ALS for Frank. I knew Bill wouldn't be long after. He sure had his shit together, though. People stumbling around, scrounging for scraps and he's having hot meals with Beaujolais.

[Starchild]

Never played the game, so I don't know if Bill and Frank's story was shown, or if it was just told in backstory exposition, but...

OMG that was one of the sweetest, saddest love stories I've ever seen.

A nearly 20-year realistic-feeling relationship between two fully realized characters told in just over an hour.

This episode must win all the awards.

[meligator]

OMG that was such a good episode. Oh the crying 

[Quickbeam]

I’m still crying. I just didn’t see that coming. 

[surfer]

“On the Nature of Daylight” gets me every time. 

[magdalene]

21 minutes ago, Demian said:

Man, the rabid gameboys are going to freak the fuck out when they see all the gay.

I saw some of the comments about the episode on youtube.  Tragic voice:the gay has infected their beloved game.

I spent the last 30 minutes of the episode ugly crying.  Now I have a headache.

Edited January 30, 2023 by magdalene

[Starchild]

4 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I saw some of the comments about the episode on youtube.  Tragic voice:the gay has infected their beloved game.

So Frank and Bill weren't in the game? Or they were but not like this? Or they were just mentioned in a backhanded comment?

Edited January 30, 2023 by Starchild

[Raachel2008]

15 minutes ago, Demian said:

Man, the rabid gameboys are going to freak the fuck out when they see all the gay.

The same rabid gameboys who are bashing Bella Ramsay because she doesn’t look like Ellie, I.e., they don’t think she is pretty as a fucking avatar? I hope they do freak the fuck out.

Loved it. Give all the awards to Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlet.

[magdalene]

Just now, Starchild said:

So Frank and Bill weren't in the game? Or they were but not like this? Or they were just mentioned in a backhanded comment?

From what I understand they were but not like this.  I don't really know having never played the game.

[Valny]

I'll be honest, I thought Frank was going to turn out to be bad,then when did the first time jump I was like, oh wow, he's a good guy and stayed around! Cool.

[maystone]

Oh, this show. I did not expect this perfection of an episode that skirted the standard rules of scifi/horror/game story-telling to create something quite extraordinary.  I didn't feel cheated on the Joel-Ellie story line at all, and I laughed - loudly - when Frank's newfound radio friend turned out to be Tess(!) and a grumpy Joel. The story of Frank and Bill wasn't a detour, it was a grace note. So beautifully written, acted, and directed.

And as a huge fan of Linda Ronstadt since the Stone Poneys, that closing song (and the use of the lyrics in the story) just made the tears flow even faster.

Just an excellent, excellent hour+ of viewing. And soon re-viewing.

[thuganomics85]

Seriously.... how in the hell did this show managed to create one of the most emotional and best love stories on television in one hour while other shows take seasons to maybe get halfway there or sometimes even flat-out fail?!

Granted, I'm sure a lot of it could be on the casting because if you need to have an epic love story between a sheltered gay survivalist who never had a relationship before and a mysterious man who can believably charm his way into said survivalist's life and make it believable, you really can't go wrong with both Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett!  I don't think they've ever worked together before so it was insane just how natural their chemistry was here and how much they made me love and root for Bill and Frank.  Both men were in fine form, but I'll give an extra star to Offerman, because he really had to show Bill's vulnerability here and his performance was just so raw and perfect in every single way.  Really deserves some award consideration.

As for the story itself, I saw where a lot of it was heading, but I still thought it was a natural and even realistic look about what love would likely be like between these two characters and living in this kind of world.  I suspected that it was going to end on a sad note, but I'm glad it was more bittersweet than tragic because at least they did have a good fifteen years or so together, grew old with one another, and both went out on their own terms.  I suspect for a show/universe like this, that's about as good of an ending as one could hope for.  But their entire journey was just beautiful to watch.

Did like them showing their first meeting with Joel and Tess and using it as a way to still get some Anna Torv screen time here.  Again, I'm wondering if we'll be getting a few more Tess flashbacks this season.

As for the actual leads, they took a bit of a backseat, but it was still fun watching Joel and Ellie play off one another, and while there are still plenty of insults and grumbling, they do seem to... I won't say be thawing out, but seem to have a basic understanding of one another and how to work together.  At least Joel didn't threaten any murder this time, heh.  But what really made me take notice was Ellie killing that trapped infected guy and her reaction to it.  On paper, it definitely was a mercy killing, but she seem to have a mixture of enjoying it and also almost being curious about seeing what happens.  In general, I think she just wanted to know what it feels like to kill one of them.  Have to imagine this is leading somewhere.  Oh, and she now has a gun!

Music choices tonight were so on the money!

Excellent hour and a half of television right here.

[driver18]

This was a beautiful episode.

On the main players, Pedro Pascal continues to blow my mind. Bella Ramsey continues to underwhelm. There is a pandemic that has wiped out the world, in the last three days or so, Ellie saw a man savagely beaten to death, was in a fierce fight with her protectors against the zombies, the nice one was bit and sacrificed herself via big kablooie, and then she walked by a mass gravesite of skeletal remains with a horrific backstory. This all after she was kept chained up for a few weeks to a radiator. And Ramsey mostly plays Ellie as a teenager on a fun fieldtrip with an air of 'this is so cool!' There are no layers, no nuance, just nothing there.

Perfect example. She stopped at the name Tess and made an oopsie face. Pedro, otoh, showed the entire weight of his grief in two seconds. I mean, she's not bad, but she's a child/teenage actor who is not doing anything extraordinary.

Still, other than her, the show has been outstanding, as was this ep.

Edited January 30, 2023 by driver18

[maystone]

36 minutes ago, Starchild said:

A nearly 20-year realistic-feeling relationship between two fully realized characters told in just over an hour.

 

Yes! Perfectly said.

[Demian]

11 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Seriously.... how in the hell did this show managed to create one of the most emotional and best love stories on television in one hour while other shows take seasons to maybe get halfway there or sometimes even flat-out fail?!

This episode was kind of astonishing, and I agree with all of those above me that it should win all of the awards (though it won't).  Definitely not something I was expecting from an adaptation of a video game -- especially a zombie video game.

That said:  Of course The Gays are going to be the ones to preserve art, and music, and fashion, and fine dining, and gracious living, even in the teeth of an apocalypse, while The Straights immediately abandon everything -- including a fundamental sense of humanity, as evinced by the mass grave of the uninfected -- in favor of basic survival.  I feel like I should be offended by that, but the performances from Offerman and Bartlett sold me so completely on their story that I don't really care.

[Constantinople]

A great yet sad episode. I think my favorite scene was when Frank and Bill toasted with the newly grown strawberries.

Made even more poignant since Annie Wersching, who played Tess in the game, passed away earlier today.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/annie-wersching-dead-bosch-24-runaways-1235312384/

[Demian]

6 minutes ago, TheOtherOne said:

A lot of good interviews about the episode:

Thanks for these -- I bet there'll be a bunch more in the next couple of days, but these are a great way to start.

Oh, a P.S.:  Did the kid get permission from the infected guy she found in the basement to kill him?  Does that indicate that even some of the most severely infected still have some sort of ability to understand what's happening to them?  'Cause that's a lot more horrific than most typical zombie stories.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Demian

[beaker73]

That was one of the best episodes of television I have seen.  My cheeks are still wet with tears.  Absolutely beautiful.  

[Swartz]

Not a fan of this episode.  

Glad to see Tess again 

[saltylemon]

My heart has been ripped out in every episode thus far, but this took the cake. I lost it, and I’m a little scared about how I’m going to handle the rest of the season if each episode has been this emotional. 

I am more than grateful that they didn’t show us the details of what happened to the mother and baby that had clearly been killed and left by the road. 
 

Also, leave it to Ron Swanson to still be dining on a juicy cut of meat & some wine in the apocalypse. 😁

Edited January 30, 2023 by saltylemon

[TheOtherOne]

Another long backstory about the episode. I found this particularly interesting, because I admit it was something I'd wondered about.

Quote

Bill might have limited himself to the bare necessities, but he also exhibits an epicurean delight — the kind of guy who appreciates sturdy fence construction as much as a good bottle of wine. The production team originally approached Con O’Neill, who played engineer Viktor Bryukhanov in Mazin’s previous series, Chernobyl, for the role. “I was pretty invested in the notion that if we’re gonna be telling the story of two middle-aged gay men, then it would probably be good to have two middle-aged gay actors doing it,” says Mazin, who notes many creatives involved in the adaptation were middle-aged, married gay men. “I was maybe slightly more insistent about that than a lot of the people around me.”

But O’Neill’s gig as Izzy Hands on Our Flag Means Death rendered him unavailable. That’s when producer Carolyn Strauss suggested Offerman, whom Mazin knew casually. “I figured, Well, if we’re gonna open this up, that’s where you go. I sent him the script and said, ‘Nick, if you don’t like it, I’ll never send you anything else ever again, because it won’t be better than this,’” he recalls. But Offerman also had a scheduling conflict. “I read the script, and I was like, ‘Oh no, what a dilemma,’” Offerman remembers. “Thankfully I have a perspicacious wife named Megan who I asked to read it, and she said, ‘Buddy, you’re going to Calgary.’”

 

https://www.vulture.com/article/the-last-of-us-episode-3-long-long-time-bill-and-frank-explained.html

[peridot]

What a great episode.  I thought the flashbacks were finished since the episode didn't start with one, but I like how the flashback worked.  It was sad to see what happened to the baby and others that were shown in the flashback, it's inhumane to kill people that way.

I was glad to see there were some decent people after the initial outbreak.  The years that were shown with Bill and Frank were lovely.  I'm surprised that Bill was able to survive being shot in the gut.  He was a badass.

I'm not really connecting with Ellie, but that may come in time.  I hope she doesn't end up shooting herself or Joel with the gun she found.

[buttersister]

That Linda Ronstadt song makes me cry on a good day. But not tonight, because I was stunned by this knockout episode and its performances. Love wins.

[aghst]

56 minutes ago, Starchild said:

So Frank and Bill weren't in the game? Or they were but not like this? Or they were just mentioned in a backhanded comment?

 

54 minutes ago, magdalene said:

From what I understand they were but not like this.  I don't really know having never played the game.

 

53 minutes ago, Valny said:

I'll be honest, I thought Frank was going to turn out to be bad,then when did the first time jump I was like, oh wow, he's a good guy and stayed around! Cool.

Inside the Episode, Druckman said their plan was to deviate from the game if they could do it better.  It sounds like Mazin pushed for this expansion of these characters' story.

I would imagine they visit Bill's little town to get the truck, battery and supplies to advance towards the next stage in the game.

Frank was mentioned as a partner of Bill but maybe not even seen in the game?

When I saw the "Don't Tread on Me" and the whole anti-government attitude, I suspected it would be too political for a video game.  But then they subverted the stereotype with this romantic story.  Bill isn't this hard ass survivalist, he's a lonely guy, which is why he didn't dispatch Frank right away.

I doubt in a video game they'd play a Linda Rondstadt song and have Bill sing it.

All this is quite off-brand for Offerman.  He usually plays the rugged individualist who's self-reliant but Bill is this vulnerable figure.

This episode is all about Bill and Frank but Ellie continues to be snotty.  I suspect she's not quite like that in the video game either.

[Chicago Redshirt]

When I was posting about the last episode, I couldn't quite remember the names of Joel and Tess's smuggler friends.

After this episode, I think Bill and Frank will stay with me for a long, long time.

It is amazing that the show made two side characters we never really saw before so real and moving in just the space of a single episode, when most shows fail to make their main ones that engaging.

P.S. I started to read the article Primetimer had complaining that the depiction of Bill and Frank represents some sort of pivot from the game or problematic representation of gays. I quit early on after a) reading some game spoilers that I didn't want and b) deciding that it seemed like it was just missing the point so badly to complain about this well-crafted hour of television that it wasn't worth trying to see if the author could make an argument.

[MrWhyt]

34 minutes ago, aghst said:

All this is quite off-brand for Offerman.  He usually plays the rugged individualist who's self-reliant but Bill is this vulnerable figure.

Offerman (the man not the characters he's played) to me has always come across as displaying the stereotypical "Manly man" virtues but without being an asshole. Bill seems pretty close to him.

Fantastic episode and acting from both Offerman and Bartlett.

[CrazyDog]

Incredible episode. The way they showed this long, complex, beautiful relationship in an hour was amazing. 

Tears at the end. I need to read the reviews of the episode too. After the tears dry up.

And also affecting was the infected at the beginning killed by Ellie. A quiet bit of horror there, as it seemed like there was a glimmer of awareness.  He's been trapped for who knows long, in the dark, unable to move. She put him out of his misery, if a bit casually. And the mass grave. This episode had al the emotions.

It's impressive that Bill and Frank were able to live relatively peacefully for so many years. I wonder how many people are truly left that more raiders wouldn't have come by and succeeded in taking over.

Fantastic episode and acting.

Edited January 30, 2023 by CrazyDog

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

When I saw the "Don't Tread on Me" and the whole anti-government attitude, I suspected it would be too political for a video game.  But then they subverted the stereotype with this romantic story.  Bill isn't this hard ass survivalist, he's a lonely guy, which is why he didn't dispatch Frank right away.

I was also impressed that the writers realized a weirdo prepper in 2003 wouldn't necessarily be an ultra-right-winger in the modern sense. Bill was a conspiracy theorist who thought that George W. Bush did 9/11 to usher in his Nazi regime, so despite his anti-globalist ravings he wouldn't be a one-to-one match for most Don't Tread on Me types today.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Dev F

[Coptop77]

Loved this episode so much! So happy to see White Lotus Armand again, he is incredible in every role. My only beef at all would be that Joel hasn’t really aged in 20 yrs, and he was old enough to have a teen daughter when the pandemic hit so he should have aged more like Frank and Bill by the time they died. But honestly the show is fantastic and Joel is foxy as can be so I’m happy getting lost in the episodes. 

[Haleth]

That hurt.  I was hoping Joel and Ellie would show up just in time to give Frank some hope so they wouldn't drink the wine.  (Not that his illness could be cured but that seeing hope for humanity might give him a reason to keep fighting.)  Do we have any idea how long Bill and Frank had been dead?  Stellar acting by both men.

How did Bill survive a shot to the gut?

Also very sad was tying the bones in the ditch to Bill via a mother and baby who were taken from the village.

[Whimsy]

8 hours ago, Starchild said:

So Frank and Bill weren't in the game? Or they were but not like this? Or they were just mentioned in a backhanded comment?

This question can be answered in the Game vs Show thread. 

6 hours ago, TheOtherOne said:

My link to the description of the game version of Bill/Frank was deleted so must be forbidden, but I put it in the Game/Show thread for those who want it.

Yes. There are directives in the first two episode threads and I just posted a mod not to the top of the thread. Game talk must be taken to the Game vs Show thread. 

[cambridgeguy]

11 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Do we have any idea how long Bill and Frank had been dead?  Stellar acting by both men.

Probably a month at most?  The letter is dated August 29, 2023 and it's still supposed to be 2023.  The leaves in the area are all green, so at the latest it's pretty early in the fall. 

[Straycat80]

This was my favorite episode so far. Stellar performances by the actors who played Frank and Bill and I loved their story.  It was nice seeing Tess again. 

[paigow]

Who shot Bill? An infected? Why not shoot the keypad instead?

[Anela]

9 hours ago, Valny said:

I'll be honest, I thought Frank was going to turn out to be bad,then when did the first time jump I was like, oh wow, he's a good guy and stayed around! Cool.

I thought he was coming on really strong, and it put me off at first. But the rest of that was so sweet. I was crying, too, but I was also so tired, that I was almost falling asleep as I watched. I usually watch when I'm more awake. 

At least Joel and Ellie weren't responsible for them ending up dead, and Ellie pointed out that she wasn't to blame for Tess being dead, either. They made a choice, and they went with it. 

I thought she was a bit sociopathic, when she started cutting into the head of the infected person, and then stabbed them. I also wondered if there was any sort of connection there, since she's infected (but not sick). 

Tess told them that they were decent people, just trying to get by. She told Ellie they weren't good people. 

[Enigma X]

From the beginning, I thought the actors in this show were great. I was not all in simply because I was apocalypsed out. Last night’s episode was one of the best pieces of TV I have ever seen. Just beautifully done.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Enigma X
Had not had coffee yet and was speaking my native tongue of gibberish

[diebartdie]

That was amazing. If you don't know the game, I reckon you can head over to the other thread to learn about it so I will only say that I LOVE this portrayal of Bill + Frank. Main difference being that in the game one of those 2 ends up being more-or-less the object of a homophobic joke (mild but still) where this was just a wholly realized love story. That's what it was, "love" and I for one was so relived when it was that and not some boring softcore near porn thing. I'm so happy we're FINALLY getting stories like this because THIS is what all us gays have been asking for all along! Just show us as normal people. People from all over the political spectrum. People who fall in love and show kindness, tenderness (that love scene omg), vulnerability but also are like real people who argue over stupid shit. Just seeing that makes a world of difference.

Regarding "rabid gamer guys", TLoU wasn't "queer" in any way, nor was it "straight" but TLoU2...well it was basically it's own giant Pride Parade (and I loved it for that). Maybe a day will finally come when we are just part of the tapestry of humanity and not noteworthy, not some "thing" to be enraged by. Episodes like this one go a long, long way towards building that future for all of us.

[Chicago Redshirt]

25 minutes ago, paigow said:

Who shot Bill? An infected? Why not shoot the keypad instead?

As far as we have seen, infected people are not capable of higher reasoning or the use of tools. We have also been told that infected can't see and rely on their sense of hearing, so trying to shoot guns would be impossible for them at a distance even if they had higher reasoning/motor skills because they would not be able to aim meaningfully.

Joel warned about raiders eventually coming for what Bill and Frank had at night and well armed, and that there was a possibility of them being able to get around the traps. This was a party of such people. They needed to shoot Bill because he was out there shooting people who were not actively being taken care of by the traps with his rifle. The raiders wee trying to hit him because otherwise, Bill would have been able to pick them all off at leisure.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

27 minutes ago, Anela said:

Tess told them that they were decent people, just trying to get by. She told Ellie they weren't good people. 

It could be that Tess was telling Bill and Frank they were decent people when she knew that they in fact weren't in order to gain their trust and trade with them. 

It could be that Tess was accurate when talking to Bill and Frank and considered themselves decent, but by the time she was talking to Ellie, Joel and Frank had done enough scandalous shiznit to survive in the intervening decade-plus and so she no longer considered themselves decent or good.

It could be that she was lying/exaggerating when she was talking to Ellie to try to keep Ellie in line, and that in her mind she and Joel always were decent/good. 

It could be that in her mind "decent" and "good" aren't quite synonymous, either because of the terms themselves or who they were talking to. Tess and Joel were perfectly capable IMO of doing things of questionable morality, especially judged against the moral understanding of a teen like Bella, but that Bill and Frank would probably understand. 

I'm not sure if there is a clearcut answer to whether Joel would have put up with Ellie if all the following were not true:

1. She is apparently immune to being infected

2. Tess told him to

3. Bill reinforced the notion of saving those we can

4. He knows that the objective is to get her to a Firefly camp out west and he is heading west anyway.

Like I could legitimately see if he was able to determine his brother was OK that he would just take over Bill and Frank's residence, or take her to a FEDRA camp or leave her on her own or try to figure out from Bill and Frank's how to signal Fireflies to come get her. Or say, "you're on your own. Good luck." All of which are IMO valid moral choices but aren't necessarily what a "good" or "decent" person would do in this situation.

[Anela]

13 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It could be that Tess was telling Bill and Frank they were decent people when she knew that they in fact weren't in order to gain their trust and trade with them. 

It could be that Tess was accurate when talking to Bill and Frank and considered themselves decent, but by the time she was talking to Ellie, Joel and Frank had done enough scandalous shiznit to survive in the intervening decade-plus and so she no longer considered themselves decent or good.

It could be that she was lying/exaggerating when she was talking to Ellie to try to keep Ellie in line, and that in her mind she and Joel always were decent/good. 

It could be that in her mind "decent" and "good" aren't quite synonymous, either because of the terms themselves or who they were talking to. Tess and Joel were perfectly capable IMO of doing things of questionable morality, especially judged against the moral understanding of a teen like Bella, but that Bill and Frank would probably understand. 

 

I know. I thought of all of those things myself. It just stood out to me. 

[Penman61]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

Tess told them that they were decent people, just trying to get by. She told Ellie they weren't good people. 

When did Tess tell Ellie that Frank and Bill weren't good people? (I might be misunderstanding your pronoun reference here.)

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, Whimsy said:

This question can be answered in the Game vs Show thread. 

Yes. There are directives in the first two episode threads and I just posted a mod not to the top of the thread. Game talk must be taken to the Game vs Show thread. 

Sorry, wasn't thinking. I assumed the Game vs Show thread probably contained spoilers for the show, which I'm trying to avoid. Am I wrong about that?

Edited January 30, 2023 by Starchild

[malthus]

Fantastic episode, I can't add anything that hasn't been said already.

EXCEPT...Joel knew the gate code. The fact that Bill went from essentially holding a gun on Joel and Tess in their first meeting to giving them open access to his compound - granted, with a time leap - is fucking huge. For all the people who become "worse" people in an apocalypse, it is good to see that some are better for it.

[Anela]

44 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

When did Tess tell Ellie that Frank and Bill weren't good people? (I might be misunderstanding your pronoun reference here.)

She told Ellie that she and Joel weren't good people. So they were prepared to kill her, I guess.

[Cirien]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Probably a month at most?  The letter is dated August 29, 2023 and it's still supposed to be 2023.  The leaves in the area are all green, so at the latest it's pretty early in the fall. 

Given how the remains of the food on the table had only just started to mould ( it looked like) I'd say about 2 weeks? Maybe but yeah a month at most