S06.E13: Saul Gone

[PeterPirate]

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I can't quite wrap my head around what Jimmy did for Kim. He falsely accused her of having played a part in Howard's murder, which he did in order to get her to come see him in court. And then he made a full confession. How did this benefit Kim? It changed her opinion of him, so it benefited him more than it did her. 

It certainly didn't help (or hurt) her legally. Am I missing something?

This part of the story has me puzzled too.  Jimmy had no corroborating evidence to put Kim in legal jeopardy.  Yet he knew his words would get back to her, and would induce her to fly back to New Mexico.  

And, amazingly, she did.  Upon hearing that her ex-husband had implicated in a murder, but without any evidence to put her in jeopardy, she flew back to New Mexico of her own accord.   

My best guess is Kim figured out Jimmy was playing one last scam and decided to take part in it.  And Jimmy knew she would do that.  All for one last spark of color in a shared cigarette.  

Oy, these two.  Even separated by 2000 miles they are poison.      

Edited August 16, 2022 by PeterPirate

[gallimaufry]

7 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

Wayfarer Airlines...

Lovely touch.

6 hours ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

I found it an elegant and satisfying finale, even if some story points pushed the limits of credulity. I see what Seehorn meant when she said it was respectful to fans. There was even a bit of fan service, with Kim and Jimmy's callback to their parking-garage smoking in the first episode.

I have a long history of disappointment with series finales, even some that were generally well received (Cheers, Mad Men), but I liked this one.

I'm relieved the Anna Gunn listing on the IMDb page was incorrect. I didn't care to see Skyler again, and Marie was a better story choice anyway.

I actually worried that was a little too on the nose, a little too circular.  However, I guess that we can assume 101 was not the first time that Jimmy and Kim have had conversations like that and so it's not a callback to one particular scene but to the years and years working their way up when this was their relationship.

One more thing people upthread have reminded me: "You were always like this."  What a devastating line and a perfect use of Walt.

I do feel though that Mike's comment about wanting to check in on Stacey and Kayleigh was due to set up Jimmy checking in on their behalf.  But they were never mentioned again.  I felt this was a black mark on the episode but perhaps in some ways it's the best thing they could do with this: like Mike, there's no way of knowing what happens to the pair of them and so the future is as immutable as the past he regrets.  It's a statement.  I still think, on balance, we had so much invested in Mike as the co-lead for the series that not returning to these characters was an oversight.  But I think I see what they were trying to do.

I also loved Kim's reaction to learning (for the first time I believe) that it was Jimmy who torpedoed Chuck's malpractice insurance.  I think that, for her, makes sense of so many questions that she had early S4.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

Now after two years on the lam

Hasn't it only been a few months?  Maybe half a year?

Kim has been in Florida for about 6 years.

1 hour ago, millennium said:

P.S.  Marie looked great!  Think her suit was purple?

She did, and probably!

[PurpleTentacle]

I'm torn on this one. It really wasn't bad, but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I really didn't need for Jimmy to "get his comeuppance". It felt good in BB because of what a monster Walter had become or always had been, but I don't think Jimmy was that much of a monster and I think he took on too much of the guilt. Walt was a cockroach who would have weaseled his way through the whole drug lord thing with or without him.

10 years in prison or even the 7.something he had negotiated would have seemed fair. But till the end of his life? That seems pretty harsh. I know technically he was involved in the crimes, but unless I remember incorrectly, he didn't know that much until it was already too late. He only knew those guys were cooking meth and didn't even have the guts to kill him. So they didn't seem like hardened criminals who'd leave a trail of bodies.

How it was presented this episodes it seemed like the showrunners were trying to tell us that Jimmy finally took responsibility. But for me it read more like he gave into an unfair "justice" system, that has ever more shaky legal constructs built in the service of the war on drugs, that should have been over decades ago, if there was something like sensible policy instead of blind ideology.

Edited August 16, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[PurpleTentacle]

5 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Is that what they tell alcoholics? Have a drink every now and again?

Actually yes. Drinking in moderation is a valid strategy. Doesn't work for everybody but neither does complete abstinence.

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

It's not what they say in AA, but there's other people or programs that are fine with it. AA doesn't have the track record people act like it does either. 

AA has the worst track record out there. It's no better than people just deciding to quit on their own. Any other somewhat big program has better sucess rates.

[millennium]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I know technically he was involved in the crimes, but unless I remember incorrectly, he didn't know that much until it was already too late. He only knew those guys were cooking meth and didn't even have the guts to kill him. So they didn't seem like hardened criminals who'd leave a trail of bodies.

At least twice in Breaking Bad, Saul/Jimmy suggested murder as a remedy to Walter White's problems.  No boy scout.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Walt as Chuck.  Brilliant.  

There was Saul, at a massive crossroads.  The emotions and anxieties were at mega levels.  And Walt drops the Chuck hammer (You've always been like this.) at this moment of vulnerability.  Of course, Saul brought it on himself by insisting on that conversation.  Perfect continuity.  Most every (breaking) bad thing happened due to his own calculation/device.

The biggest mystery now?  Did Walt fix the heater?

There is great irony and lesson for Jimmy in that letting go of control over the next thing (prison placement) resulted in a pretty great situation.  He is a legend.  I'm certain he is a fantastic jailhouse lawyer.  

I can't believe I basically "called" it:  Kim as awesome paralegal.  She'd be able to prepare most any pleading and handle the endless fires needing to be put out in the absence of a lawyer.  The lawyer merely signs-off where required for filings and such.  It would not take Kim long to learn the Florida code.

So much more to say, but I'll close for now with this:  "I've Got a Name"  Jim Croce.  Yes, you do, Jimmy McGill.  Yes, you do.  

[TakomaSnark]

8 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Kim is practicing law again?

Another impossibility that's offensively stupid. Either her statement she gave in Waterworks to the DA's office is true or not. If true, she won't be allowed to practice law again. If it's not true, she committed perjury and won't be permitted to practice law again.

As is the idea she can't resign from the New Mexico bar. Just 3 episodes ago she told a judge she can't argue a motion because she was no longer a lawyer. The judge didn't say, joke's on you, once a lawyer, always a lawyer! Moreover we've been told Kim is a good attorney for 6 seasons. Now she's an ignorant moron for plot reasons.

I don't think she is practicing law again. She just used her unexpired bar card to enter the prison under the guise of being Jimmy's attorney. You are correct, in no universe could she return to the practice of law, though she could be working in a non-attorney capacity for the legal aid entity in Florida.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

Marie looked great!  Think her suit was purple?

I felt sure it was.  Marie was a favorite of mine, the most loving wife, aunt and sister, ever, with the most interesting failing, ever, --  wasting realtors' time.

The ending was perfect for me.  Jimmy and Kim seemed so much happier without all the guilt and fear hanging over them.  They still have their love for each other and they still   get to use their legal expertise, just on a strictly volunteer basis. If that's all the happiness they get it may be enough, but in my fan-fantasy, Jimmy gets a gubernatorial pardon after a few years for all the help he's given his fellow prisoners.

I loved the afterward where the stars thanked the fans.  I thank them for one of the best shows I've ever had to watch, enjoy and look forward to 

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I'm torn on this one. It really wasn't bad, but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I really didn't need for Jimmy to "get his comeuppance". It felt good in BB because of what a monster Walter had become or always had been, but I don't think Jimmy was that much of a monster and I think he took on too much of the guilt. Walt was a cockroach who would have weaseled his way through the whole drug lord thing with or without him.

10 years in prison or even the 7.something he had negotiated would have seemed fair. But till the end of his life? That seems pretty harsh. I know technically he was involved in the crimes, but unless I remember incorrectly, he didn't know that much until it was already too late. He only knew those guys were cooking meth and didn't even have the guts to kill him. So they didn't seem like hardened criminals who'd leave a trail of bodies.

How it was presented this episodes it seemed like the showrunners were trying to tell us that Jimmy finally took responsibility. But for me it read more like he gave into an unfair "justice" system, that has ever more shaky legal constructs built in the service of the war on drugs, that should have been over decades ago, if there was something like sensible policy instead of blind ideology.

He very much knew what was happening with Walt if he just read the news.   He was complicit in the murder of multiple people along with money laundering, many crimes. 

[TakomaSnark]

I'm listening to The Watch pod about the finale and I like how Andy Greenwald summed up things: It's a 'remarkable coda on an era of television, not just for the Albuquerque-verse but the era of difficult men.'

[Pj3422]

8 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Did anyone else catch Jimmy break into a slight smile as the bus prisoners chanted his slogan?

Was he realizing his fame might convert to social capital on the inside? When we see him walking to meet Kim the last time, he seems to be friendly with his fellow bakery worker inmates.

I think Jimmy’s going to do just fine in the confines of prison. He’ll feel needed, he’ll run an occasional con… I kind of see him like Zero Mostel & Gene Wilder (or Nathan Lane & Matthew Broderick) at the end of “The Producers.”

[Chaos Theory]

8 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I can see why they felt it needed to be done to redeem Jimmy but that was a big sacrifice being willing to die in prison. He has Kim's love but he may not ever see her again and that's a long time to be locked up. I don't think I could do it.

But he is also around people who admire him.  Jimmy will be fine in prison as a jailhouse lawyer and make a decent life for himself probably happier then he was as Gene.   

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Kim's real personality was somebody who sometimes liked to break rules and take risks. Florida Kim was afraid to do or say anything. When she came back to herself she made the decision to volunteer for the type of lawyering she could no longer do as a lawyer, and she pulled a scam to get in to see Jimmy like she wanted. She didn't want to hurt people anymore, not just avoid any and all crime.

I think like Jimmy as Gene, Kim in Florida was a shell of a person and just punishing herself for the sake of punishing herself.   Once she handed her confession to Sheryl what happens next is no longer up to her so she decides to let the chips fall where they may and decides to at least attempt to be the person she was before. As for the scene in the prison.  I think we need to take that as Hollywood magic because season 1 Jimmy and Kim, way before they got married and destroyed Chuck and Harold’s life, took cigarettes breaks outside together.   This was supposed to mimick that and it couldn’t be done in a crowded visiting room with a dozen guards watching them.   But Kim coming in with her old lawyers license wanting to say goodbye to the man she once loved was a appropriate and sad way to say goodbye.  

Edited August 16, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[Spartan Girl]

4 minutes ago, Pj3422 said:

I think Jimmy’s going to do just fine in the confines of prison. He’ll feel needed, he’ll run an occasional con… I kind of see him like Zero Mostel & Gene Wilder (or Nathan Lane & Matthew Broderick) at the end of “The Producers.”

At the very least, having the admiration of his fellow inmates will keep him alive and unharmed.

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Upon hearing that her ex-husband had implicated in a murder, but without any evidence to put her in jeopardy, she flew back to New Mexico of her own accord.   

My best guess is Kim figured out Jimmy was playing one last scam and decided to take part in it.  And Jimmy knew she would do that.  All for one last spark of color in a shared cigarette.

Oy, these two.  Even separated by 2000 miles they are poison.

I didn’t see it that way. At that point, Kim felt like she didn’t know him anymore. She had every reason to believe he’d screw her over in some way, and if that wasn’t going to happen, she felt like he ought to at least do it to her face instead of behind her back. But after she saw that wasn’t what his true intent was, that he proved that there was still a bit of Jimmy left inside him, she felt like she owed it to him to visit him in prison for one last cigarette.

Oh, and I wanted to add how much I loved that the Walt flashback had Walt at his absolute worst: pretentious and playing the victim.

[Lalo Lives]

Maybe upon reading and hearing some comments like those in this thread the G&G boys will give BCS (and us) an El Camino-type made-for-TV vignette.

One that will fill gaps, add flavor, supply color, and create a sense of satisfaction.

One can hope.

——————-

We went to the tailor to get super 170 Tasmanian wool, real mother-of-pearl buttons, and, of course, Sea Island cotton with the club collar and French cuffs, plus the tie bar and cuff links.

Or maybe beautiful Italian wools and super 100s and also some English suitings from Holland & Sherry. 

We then went to the spa wanting hair tinting, teeth whitening, a stimulating workout with a magnificently beautiful and seductively fit trainer. We wanted a massage, a steam bath, a sauna, and a Jacuzzi. Perhaps a mani-pedi, new nails, and a Brazilian for the ladies & metrosexuals. All followed up with a mimosa, a Moscow Mule, or Zafiro Anejo in a tall, $100 shot glass that weighs a ton.

What we got was a pair of khakis, a polo, and the advice to floss and eat more fiber.

[Kip Hackman]

7 hours ago, estellasmum said:

I like it. It didn't have the firepower of Felina, but that isn't what this show is. I look at Felina as Walter's "happy" ending (he died among that what he loved),

That's what I disliked about the BB finale. Walt didn't deserve a happy ending.  I prefer "Granite State" as a series finale.

As far as the BCS finale, it was okay.  Saul's about face seemed to come out of nowhere, but I guess they tried to explain via the flashbacks. Great show.  Will miss it.

[cardigirl]

9 hours ago, Constantinople said:

As is the idea she can't resign from the New Mexico bar. Just 3 episodes ago she told a judge she can't argue a motion because she was no longer a lawyer. The judge didn't say, joke's on you, once a lawyer, always a lawyer! Moreover we've been told Kim is a good attorney for 6 seasons. Now she's an ignorant moron for plot reasons.

No, she used her bar card to get in to see Jimmy/Saul. Saying it didn't have an expiration date just meant she could use it for that purpose.  

She's volunteering at a free legal defense organization, but I doubt she's "practicing," just advising. 

At least that was my take on it. 

[PeterPirate]

58 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I didn’t see it that way. At that point, Kim felt like she didn’t know him anymore. She had every reason to believe he’d screw her over in some way, and if that wasn’t going to happen, she felt like he ought to at least do it to her face instead of behind her back. But after she saw that wasn’t what his true intent was, that he proved that there was still a bit of Jimmy left inside him, she felt like she owed it to him to visit him in prison for one last cigarette.

I guess we'll never know why Kim flew back to New Mexico.  Frankly, that part of the plot seems gimmicky to me.  Maybe the writers themselves could not answer that question.

For that matter, I wonder why Jimmy decided to spill his guts.  All he had to do was recant his statement about Kim.  Then he would have been out in 7 years, and could be reasonably certain Kim would be there for him when he got out.  

At the very least, he could have waited until he got to prison in North Carolina to unburden himself.  

And why the massive increase in the sentence?  It's not like he confessed to any new crimes.  I thought courts liked it when defendants take responsibility for their actions during allocution.  

Edited August 16, 2022 by PeterPirate
To keep ranting

[Sailorgirl26]

8 hours ago, Ed- said:

. In Saul's mind, the scam works, Kim even visits him in prison, and he still hopes to get out by mentioning he can maybe get out on good behavior.

Folks keep referencing this as though he legitimately thinks it's an option. I think it was said as a bit of gallows humor.

At this point, he has truly owned up to everything and accepted his fate.

I don't think he thinks this is an option--it was  one of those things you say to make light of an awful and/or awkward situation.

When he gave the full confession he knew what it meant and that there would be no "out on good behavior."  

This is yet another way they let us know this was a goodbye between Jimmy and Kim. He was acknowledging that her life was going to be moving on without him in it. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Sailorgirl26

[DrSpaceman73]

I'm almost positive based on her confession Kim will never be allowed to practice law again and would be disbarred. She just escaped any criminal consequences. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by DrSpaceman73

[luna1122]

I thought it was beautiful and sad and satisfying. I did wish for a musical coda, I gotta admit, but ultimately, I was happy with this.

I had joked that I wanted Jimmy to wind up in prison, and sent to Kentucky State Reformatory, where his bunkmate turns out to be a loquacious, charismatic fellow named Boyd Crowder. That didn’t happen, obvs (and the timeline is all wrong anyhow) but this ending did harken back to that one, for me. I spent 6 years expecting Boyd Crowder to never leave Harlan alive, and ultimately, he did. Prison was better than death, and even though it’s tough to see a character we care about locked up and caged, even when he deserves it, at least he was still alive. And when Raylan Givens visited him in the show’s final scene, Boyd was thriving. Smart con men do that.

And it looks like Jimmy—or Saul—is doing fine in prison. He’s liked, he’s probably helping inmates with legal stuff, he’s thriving as much as anyone ever can in prison. I don’t know if I agree that he deserves to die there, but that’s what’s going to happen. He’s making the best of it.

The scene between him and Kim—still brunette, but with a kickier ‘do—was film noir perfection. The shared cigarette, the brief but vivid flame, the leaning against the wall together, harkening back to the 1st episodes…the heat and chemistry and love between them was so palpable that I actually gasped a little. It’s no happy ending, but it was about as happy as it was ever going to be. I get that some are displeased with it, or wanted them both to pay more, or to run off into the sunset together, or whatever, but I thought it was pretty brilliant, and tragic, and fitting, and heartbreaking but not unbearable. That’s what I want from a series finale.

[paigow]

7 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

And it looks like Jimmy—or Saul—is doing fine in prison. He’s liked, he’s probably helping inmates with legal stuff, he’s thriving as much as anyone ever can in prison.

He is Andy Dufresne for the 21st Century... [except for the innocent part] doing taxes for the guards, helping the Warden embezzle...

[Simon Boccanegra]

Breaking Bad's "Felina" was a good, solid conclusion overall, but I found it rickety in some of its plotting. I've commented recently that I can be forgiving of those ingenious-plot stories in which everything has to go just right, and everything does go right because that's what the story needs to happen, but Walt's plan for taking out all the white supremacists really pushed it. 

Also, I am sure I remember a lot of carping that night (I didn't join in this part) about Jesse's escape, similar to what's being said now about Kim: he should have been arrested and done time, his driving away was a feel-good copout that provided no #justiceforGale, etc.  

Maybe people have mellowed on it with re-watches, or maybe it's attached itself to the three episodes before it as one big "finale of Breaking Bad," but a lot of people did consider it a good-not-great episode, or worse, when it was new.  

Sometimes these big episodes that come freighted with expectations get underrated or overrated in the first-day takes, and we need to see how they settle. I thought "Saul Gone" (which I've seen once) was better than "Felina" (which I've seen a few times). But I reserve the right to change my mind.  

Edited August 16, 2022 by Simon Boccanegra

[jww]

They eliminated parole in the Federal prisons in 1987.  Goodtime is limited to 15% of a person's sentence.  So,  if Jimmy/Saul had accepted the original 30 year offer he could have gotten out in 25 years.  The problem is if he was 50 then he would be 75 when released and what then-no family/friends, MAYBE eligible for a minimum Social Security check.  Good luck finding a room to rent.  In  prison has a bed/3 meals/friends.

[lilysmom]

10 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Kim is practicing law again?

Another impossibility that's offensively stupid. Either her statement she gave in Waterworks to the DA's office is true or not. If true, she won't be allowed to practice law again. If it's not true, she committed perjury and won't be permitted to practice law again.

As is the idea she can't resign from the New Mexico bar. Just 3 episodes ago she told a judge she can't argue a motion because she was no longer a lawyer. The judge didn't say, joke's on you, once a lawyer, always a lawyer! Moreover we've been told Kim is a good attorney for 6 seasons. Now she's an ignorant moron for plot reasons.

I guess I completely missed the point on this one. I thought she was able to use her bar association id card (since it didn't have an expiration date on it) to get in to see Jimmy and just lied to the prison authorities that she was his lawyer. I am very easily led astray!

[Colorado David]

Well, thoughts. A somewhat satisfying ending, altho going out with a whimper not a bang.  I was hoping to get more touched emotionally, but I didn't.  Regardless of Saul's speech in court, I think Kim's confession still would hold more water legally, and so his testimony really didn't do anything except relieve his guilty conscience. It didn't change anything as far as he and Chuck, IMO. And he blew the deal, 7 years.

Marie...not really sure why she had to be a part of this in the negotiations, she didn't add much. If it was to be an emotional tug, it sure didn't get me.

On the bright side - two new shows, with Bob and Giancarlo - so yay!! Something to look forward to next year. Tho this Interview with the Vampire does look interesting as well.

I liked the thank yous at the end - I wish BB had done this as well.

[luna1122]

8 minutes ago, lilysmom said:

I guess I completely missed the point on this one. I thought she was able to use her bar association id card (since it didn't have an expiration date on it) to get in to see Jimmy and just lied to the prison authorities that she was his lawyer. I am very easily led astray!

Your take on it was correct. Kim is not practicing law again 

[SnarkAttack]

7 hours ago, Dobian said:

And so Saul ends, not with a bang, but a whimper.

I enjoyed the flashback with Chuck.  I was wondering if they would bring him back one last time and they did.

The other highlight was the bus ride with the prisoners chanting his name.

So Saul gets a conscience at the end and blows his plea deal for a life sentence.  Predictable and kind of boring.

Good that they remembered Hank and Gomez, and what Jimmy did to Chuck.

They could have ended with him being Saul again in the prison, giving free legal advice to his newfound prison clients.  Guys waiting in line to go into his cell...um...office.

So long, Saul.

Anyone else get a "The Fugitive" vibe for a second during the scene on the bus?  I thought the bus would crash and that's how Saul would get away, lol.

[anoninrva]

10 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

She may have to become Mrs. Yup Yup guy if she wants to do a lot of volunteering.  

This ending was similar to Casablanca.  Ilsa gets sent away with a man she doesn't love.  Rick, until he gets bailed out by Captain Renault, is on his way to a Nazi concentration camp. 

I thought her hair, the lighting, etc was an homage to one of the classic films they like, but I'm not enough of a film buff to place it. Were there finger-guns in Casablanca?

[scenario]

Jimmy, Saul and Gene are three phases in his life. Jimmy is the criminal whose not totally corrupted and has a chance to turn from the path he's on. Saul is the moneygrubber who'll do anything for money. He never does anything directly himself. He abets people who do. And Gene is evil. He directly and indirectly hurts people.

Gene's life was just awful to Jimmy. It was literally worse than prison for Jimmy. He looks at his live and realizes that when he gets out of prison, he'll be Gene again. As Gene he has the choice of living a life he hates or return to the evil bitter criminal that he had become. And Kim might be the one to suffer for it.

Kim turned down the sandpiper money. She has nothing to take even if she loses in court. What Jimmy fears is her going to prison. Her really big crime is destroying Howards reputation. She did the best she could to restore his reputation. The best she can hope for is a simple life. Even if she uses her intelligence to find herself a different career, she can't keep any of the money after the lawsuit. She'll be forced to live a simple life helping people from now on.

Jimmy knew that if he took the 7 year deal he was going to end up being Gene again. Confessing makes it less likely that Kim will go to prison and maybe she'll forgive him. She's the love of his life. 

His choices were living as Gene estranged from Kim. Or living in prison where he'll be useful with Kim's blessing. 

[anoninrva]

2 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The biggest mystery now?  Did Walt fix the heater?

They flashed to a wristwatch at the end of the scene.  That seemed to indicate to me that there was nothing wrong with the heater, and the ticking he heard was from the watch.

I thought the flash to HG Wells' Time Machine in the Chuck scene was nice.  I also liked Walt's take on the impossibility of time travel, getting to the crux of the question with "You're asking about regrets?", which of course Jimmy/Saul/Gene isn't fully capable of having.

Also, not to nitpick, but what about the crimes of Gene?  Wouldn't that be additional (notional) prison time, possibly at the state and not federal level?

[peeayebee]

9 hours ago, Dev F said:

Exactly this. A big reason why Kim broke bad is because she despaired at what the system did to people like Jimmy. That's why she ended up screaming at stubborn old Mr. Acker that he doesn't get to play by his own rules, then colluding with Jimmy to help him keep his house. That's why she deemed herself personally responsible for representing every downtrodden defendant in Albuquerque, even if she had to scam the Sandpiper case to do it. And it's why she ended up burying herself in a life where she didn't have to make any choices at all, because she convinced herself that even her noblest aspirations could only be achieved via her worst and most destructive impulses.

But here Jimmy showed her that she could redeem the hopeless not by conning the system into a fairer outcome, but simply by providing an example of decency for him to follow. He affirmed that her fondest hopes were possible without unleashing her greatest fears. After the events of the last episode seemed to suggest exactly the opposite—that Kim coming forward would benefit no one and only make her own life more miserable—it's quite an important thing to show her.

I get all that, but Kim started volunteering at the free legal clinic before she learned Jimmy had implicated her in Howard's murder. She had already decided to do something good with her life instead of living in a stupor. So I don't see that what he did affected her life except to make her feel better about him.

It was nice to see the two of them together sharing a smoke. They were at ease with each other. The animosity was gone. They were accepting their lives and what they had done. That's all good. Or s'good, man.

 I liked what we saw of the lawyer in the legal clinic. You could tell she really cared about her clients. I had actually hoped to see more of her.

8 hours ago, Bannon said:

Saul was witness to hundreds of criminals, some of them quite nortorious. Some of the crimes real life kingpin El Chapo went away for were committed as a very young low level soldier, that people testified to years later, as part of plea deals.

Since he was their lawyer, could he testify against anyone? 

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

And why the massive increase in the sentence?  It's not like he confessed to any new crimes.  I thought courts liked it when defendants take responsibility for their actions during allocution.  

At the first sentencing meeting when the DA was listing all of Saul's (known) crimes, I think he said it would add up to 100 years or some huge number. So by putting him in jail for 87 years or whatever, they were just going back to the first sentence.

Re Cheryl: I understand her anger toward Kim, esp with Kim laying that guilt trip on her at the memorial. I know Bill said Cheryl was shopping around for lawyers in order to sue Kim. But what could she really get out of it, money-wise? Cheryl is, if not wealthy, then very well off. Kim has nothing. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by peeayebee

[Bannon]

This show has consistently depicted human beings as complex moral beings. The only unambiguously good person I can think of is Manuel Varga, and the only unambiguously bad people are the members of the Salamanca clan (kind of surprised we never saw Tuco's release from prison), Eladio, Bolsa, and Gus ( although he's a very complex unambiguously bad person). Everybody else is shown to be capable of ethically bad, sometimes titanically bad, behavior, but also capable of selfless sacrifice borne of love. That really describes the overwhelming majority of people, and I really enjoyed how this episode emphasized this reality.

[Starchild]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am going to need to process that a bit more, but I thought that was a very fitting finale. Gene's story ended the only way that it could, in the garbage, Saul manages to talk his way to only seven years for everything he's pulled, only for Jimmy to end up owning up to all of the horrible things that he's done.

This is an interesting perspective, that over the years he moved from Jimmy, to Saul, to Gene.

And at the end he moved backwards from Gene, to Saul, to Jimmy. I love the parallelism in this concept.

I'd even argue that at that moment with Marion, he almost crossed a line into some 4th version of himself, a version willing to commit violence, to kill.

But he took a step back. The reversal back to Jimmy started then.

[PeterPirate]

37 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

Marie...not really sure why she had to be a part of this in the negotiations, she didn't add much. If it was to be an emotional tug, it sure didn't get me.

I liked seeing Marie.  I think her purpose for being there was to provide an emotional reaction as Saul laid out his plans for his legal defense.  

It was also a nice coda for Marie.  She showed the greatest amount of character growth of anyone in the Gilliverse.  By the end of BB she was loyal, steadfast, and brave.  Her appearance here highlighted that.  

[Dobian]

I kept getting thrown off when Saul mentioned the events that happened "two years ago," and I thought it had been six years.  But it was six years since the Kim era.  So Saul only managed to evade the authorities for two measly years.  That's what happens when you get bored and start engaging in criminal stuff again.  I think he wanted to have a final escapade and then get caught.  He could have taken Carol Burnett's Life Alert off her neck and not let her press the button.

19 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Re Cheryl: I understand her anger toward Kim, esp with Kim laying that guilt trip on her at the memorial. I know Bill said Cheryl was shopping around for lawyers in order to sue Kim. But what could she really get out of it, money-wise? Cheryl is, if not wealthy, then very well off. Kim has nothing. 

It's to punish her.  Keep her tied up in court and dirt poor.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Dobian

[monagatuna]

I thought this finale went the only way it could go. I remember checking my watch when Gene was found, thinking, wow, a whole hour to go. This is going to come down to Jimmy's mouth.

And didn't it always? I think it's unfair to compare this to BB or El Camino. Saul was never the guy MacGuyvering everyday household products into scientific genius to escape a situation. He always used his words to get whatever outcome he wished for. Why would the finale be any different? He was always kind of bumbling, then coming up with some beautiful argument at the eleventh hour.

I am profoundly sad to see this universe come to an end. I'm sadder than I was when BB ended. I've been invested in this world since '08 when I stumbled upon it one Sunday evening when they were rerunning S1 of BB, and I watched the entire thing throughout the night (fun fact, I was in my second year of law school at the time and my Monday morning classes were brutal the next day). I scoffed at the idea of a spinoff with Saul, never expecting to actually enjoy the series more than its predecessor. But the story has been told, and at this point in time, most of the characters are dead, jailed, or disappeared, and it wouldn't make sense to follow up with them. I don't want to catch up with Jesse. I don't want to follow Jimmy's prison shenanigans, or see Kim get some relatively mild comeuppance. I like not knowing what they're up to. That last scene was a goodbye, to Jimmy and to all of us, and it was perfectly shot and wonderfully acted.

Bravo and farewell to an excellent series.

[suzeecat]

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I loved JImmy asking both Mike and Walt about time machines and essentially what they regretted and their answers made sense for their characters.   Mike has always been a character full of such regret and saying he would change the moment he took his first bribe fits with him.   And Walt saying he would have not left the company he started fits with his hubris.  

I found these scenes as satisfying as Jimmy's confession. 

[gallimaufry]

33 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Re Cheryl: I understand her anger toward Kim, esp with Kim laying that guilt trip on her at the memorial. I know Bill said Cheryl was shopping around for lawyers in order to sue Kim. But what could she really get out of it, money-wise? Cheryl is, if not wealthy, then very well off. Kim has nothing. 

Given "Namaste" was Howard's thing and that Kim has genuinely turned her hand to doing good, I think there is potential in seeing whether grinding Kim further into the dirt is actually of any use.

38 minutes ago, anoninrva said:

They flashed to a wristwatch at the end of the scene.  That seemed to indicate to me that there was nothing wrong with the heater, and the ticking he heard was from the watch.

Oh, interesting.  Since Jesse gave him the watch and at this point he had just offered Jesse up to the Nazis to be tortured and killed (after confessing to Jane's death at last), I thought it was suggesting that Walt's actual deepest regret was Jesse.

[Starchild]

9 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

Given "Namaste" was Howard's thing and that Kim has genuinely turned her hand to doing good, I think there is potential in seeing whether grinding Kim further into the dirt is actually of any use.

I think if I were Cheryl, I wouldn't waste time trying to get money I don't need from someone who doesn't have it, especially if they had offered atonement.

But I would follow her life, and do everything I could to ensure she never practiced law again. Howard at least deserved that.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Starchild

[Eulipian 5k]

12 hours ago, WritinMan said:

From Cinnabon to the prison kitchen.

From Mr. Chips to Scarface.

Well, some fans did complain these lawyers spend very little time in the courtroom. It's fitting that the finale grinds us through the tedium of facing justice. (Can't rush the process).

Interesting to see them make the point about justice for white collars like Saul vs what any of his clients face. Tuco got a rougher sentence/facility just for beating up Mike. (Didn't Hank and Gomie do the same bargaining, "queen for a day, etc" in Br Ba?

Law enforcement is nothing like they show on TV. Police don't solve crimes and the courts just make plea deals so they can move to the next!

Chuck does care about his little brother Jimmy; but he knows he will always be a turd. Amazing how Walt and Jimmy destroyed everybody and everything they touched in these shows.

ps.

From the moment he opened it, (in the dumpster!), I was yelling, Close the Band Aid box you jack-ass!

[Simon Boccanegra]

14 hours ago, Dobian said:

I kept getting thrown off when Saul mentioned the events that happened "two years ago," and I thought it had been six years.  But it was six years since the Kim era.  So Saul only managed to evade the authorities for two measly years.  That's what happens when you get bored and start engaging in criminal stuff again. 

Not even.

His references to "two years ago" were to when he was abducted by Walter and Jesse.

The entire Breaking Bad era was 2008-10. The final episode of BB took us as far as September 7, 2010 (recall that we saw Walter marking birthdays at the beginning and end of the series, with another in the middle). The football games Jimmy-as-Gene discussed with the security guard at the mall were played in October 2010, and the phone conversations with Francesca and Kim took place on Jimmy's own 50th birthday (November 12, 2010). 

Edited: Others reminded me that Saul disappeared from Albuquerque in spring, and one late BB episode covered a six-month time period. He kept his nose clean in Omaha until fall of the same year.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Simon Boccanegra

[Eulipian 5k]

12 hours ago, Constantinople said:

I suspect impersonating a lawyer is a crime, particularly when you impersonate a lawyer to government officials? Why would Kim do that?

She did it before with Lalo; she wasn't his lawyer. It was a scam to get to see Viktor. Plus, what are the consequences...being disbarred?

[Dobian]

I thought it was a nice touch after Jimmy talks about time machines with Walt and Mike, that at the end of the scene with Chuck, the last shot is Chuck picking up a copy of H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine."

[gallimaufry]

Just now, Starchild said:

I think if I were Cheryl, I wouldn't waste time trying to get money I don't need from someone who doesn't need it, especially if they had offered atonement.

But I would follow her life, and do everything I could to ensure she never practiced law again. Howard at least deserved that.

Perhaps. 

I actually think there is a case for Kim one day to practise law again if she continues down the redemptive path she's on.  She simply can do more good as a lawyer for the needy than she can helping answer phones and filing and while her confession would block any re-entry to the bar now, if she spends a decade committing every spare hour to licking stamps for the underserved for free, it seems like she'd have a much stronger case for reacquiring her licence than, say, Jimmy in 410.

However, at that point, I think she would have to go to Cheryl and say what she was doing and why and it would be for Cheryl to decide whether retribution or revenge is appropriate. 

Separate note, I'm fascinated by Ericssen giving Kim a heads up about Jimmy's testimony.  It suggests that Kim retains the respect of at least one ABQ lawyer.  Also, I loved that Peter Diseth got a really big part this episode.  He's been a terrific character and a great cheerleader for the show and he also had some great comedic moments here.  I actually think a tremendous strength of this show, more even than "Breaking Bad", has been how good the tertiary characters are.

[suzeecat]

12 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

From the moment he opened it, (in the dumpster!), I was yelling, Close the Band Aid box you jack-ass!

Right???  That was neither the time nor the place to be admiring your pretty sparkles. 

[PeterPirate]

7 hours ago, peeayebee said:

At the first sentencing meeting when the DA was listing all of Saul's (known) crimes, I think he said it would add up to 100 years or some huge number. So by putting him in jail for 87 years or whatever, they were just going back to the first sentence.

Yes, I'm not quibbling with that part of the plot that much.  Judges are free to ignore sentencing recommendations and this judge was highly skeptical of the agreement.  I suppose the prosecutors were free to pull their agreement in light of Jimmy's statement.  But I also agree with Oakley when he said it wasn't a confession.  

But of the problems I expressed in my previous rant, I had the biggest issue with Jimmy unburdening himself in court like that.  I get that there was value in reclaiming his identity as James McGill.  But it was totally out of character for someone who's lived a life of crime since before puberty.  And Kim was in no legal peril so his words didn't help her out in that regard.  

It has taken me a while to realize that it was Kim's affidavit that caused his change of heart--that indeed, unburied the good heart that was in him.  Kim showed Jimmy the way to a better existence, albeit one without freedom and excitement.  

And to take things a step further, Jimmy saw Kim was willing to fly from Florida to New Mexico to see him, and therefore would drive to North Carolina.  At the same time, he knew they are bad for each other.  Relative proximity, as well as the possibility they might re-unite, would be ruinous for Kim.  By venting in court like that, he ensured they would be apart for the rest of their lives.  

So in the end, Jimmy was true to his core personality trait.  He sacrificed himself to save her.  That's what this show was about. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Dobian]

13 minutes ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

Not even. Barely two months.

His references to "two years ago" were to when he was abducted by Walter and Jesse.

The entire Breaking Bad era was 2008-10. The final episode of BB took us as far as September 7, 2010 (recall that we saw Walter marking birthdays at the beginning and end of the series, with another in the middle). The football games Jimmy-as-Gene discussed with the security guard at the mall were played in October 2010, and the phone conversations with Francesca and Kim took place on Jimmy's own 50th birthday (November 12, 2010). 

They sure made it like he was at Cinnabon a pretty long time.  That's a lot to pack into two months, plus why would he be that fast to jump into another con game?  I could see it happening after a couple of years went by and he was bored and depressed with his life, but after less than two months?  You would think that he would still be laying very low at this point.

[SoTheresThat]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Since he was their lawyer, could he testify against anyone? 

I believe he could testify, but would be disbarred for violating attorney client privilege. 

However, this would be a moot issue in Saul's case because I'm sure he'd never be able to practice law again anyway. 

So it could be to his advantage to possibly reduce his sentence.

Edited August 16, 2022 by SoTheresThat

[Bannon]

17 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I think if I were Cheryl, I wouldn't waste time trying to get money I don't need from someone who doesn't have it, especially if they had offered atonement.

But I would follow her life, and do everything I could to ensure she never practiced law again. Howard at least deserved that.

I have to say, that if two lawyers drugged some other lawyer I cared about, as part of an effort to defraud hundreds of people, and those two lawyers also concealed from a court the true identity of gangster, so he could make bail, and then that gangster later shot the lawyer I cared about in the head, when that lawyer picked an unlucky time to go to the other two lawyers' home to rip them a new one, for being such A-holes, I'd be lobbying every prosecutor at any level to see both of those lawyers prosecuted. I'd sue as part if a media campaign to put pressure on the prosecutors.

I understand why the writers went the direction they did, but I would have preferred them not so heavily suggesting that Kim may be out of the woods,  legally.