S06.E13: Saul Gone

[SusieQ]

The Odenkirk show is not a spin off. It's based on a book by Richard Russo and has nothing to do with BCS. Bob is executive producer and stars in it. Heard him talk about it onFresh Air with Terry Gross

Edited August 16, 2022 by SusieQ
Added info

[Simon Boccanegra]

2 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Kim is practicing law again?

Another impossibility that's offensively stupid. Either her statement she gave in Waterworks to the DA's office is true or not. If true, she won't be allowed to practice law again. If it's not true, she committed perjury and won't be permitted to practice law again.

As is the idea she can't resign from the New Mexico bar. Just 3 episodes ago she told a judge she can't argue a motion because she was no longer a lawyer. The judge didn't say, joke's on you, once a lawyer, always a lawyer! Moreover we've been told Kim is a good attorney for 6 seasons. Now she's an ignorant moron for plot reasons.

I thought she just meant she presented her old bar card and they believed at the prison she was his attorney. Which she wasn't. His or anyone's.  

[Broderbits]

8 minutes ago, WritinMan said:

From Cinnabon to the prison kitchen.

I'm sure that all along Saul Goodman thought managing a Cinnabon in Omaha was not unlike being in prison.

[Pj3422]

4 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

 The ending makes sense but I feel like it went out with more of a whimper than a bang. Guess I will have to sit with it awhile.

Yeah, but this didn’t have the high stakes of the Breaking Bad finale: no taking out the Nazis, no rescuing Jesse. They simply tied up the loose ends.. 

[WritinMan]

5 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Kim is practicing law again?

Another impossibility that's offensively stupid. Either her statement she gave in Waterworks to the DA's office is true or not. If true, she won't be allowed to practice law again. If it's not true, she committed perjury and won't be permitted to practice law again.

As is the idea she can't resign from the New Mexico bar. Just 3 episodes ago she told a judge she can't argue a motion because she was no longer a lawyer. The judge didn't say, joke's on you, once a lawyer, always a lawyer! Moreover we've been told Kim is a good attorney for 6 seasons. Now she's an ignorant moron for plot reasons.

Did they say she was practicing law again? If they did I missed it. I thought she was just volunteering at that place.

Edited August 16, 2022 by WritinMan

[Penman61]

4 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Kim is practicing law again?

Another impossibility that's offensively stupid. Either her statement she gave in Waterworks to the DA's office is true or not. If true, she won't be allowed to practice law again. If it's not true, she committed perjury and won't be permitted to practice law again.

As is the idea she can't resign from the New Mexico bar. Just 3 episodes ago she told a judge she can't argue a motion because she was no longer a lawyer. The judge didn't say, joke's on you, once a lawyer, always a lawyer! Moreover we've been told Kim is a good attorney for 6 seasons. Now she's an ignorant moron for plot reasons.

I thought Kim told Jimmy “My NM law license CARD doesn’t have an expiration date.” So she flashed the prison guards a card, but is still not actually a lawyer anymore.

[ahmerali]

Just now, Pj3422 said:

Yeah, but this didn’t have the high stakes of the Breaking Bad finale: no taking out the Nazis, no rescuing Jesse. They simply tied up the loose ends.. 

I don't even really think they did that. Again, I'll be glad to be proven wrong. Walk me through it...

Just now, ahmerali said:

I don't even really think they did that. Again, I'll be glad to be proven wrong. Walk me through it...

He's in jail on an extremely light sentence. and he made it right with Kim and his own conscience, so everything is OK? I'm really not seeing how I'm supposed to be OK with that.

[Simon Boccanegra]

2 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

He's in jail on an extremely light sentence

Eighty-six years? 

[ahmerali]

Just now, Simon Boccanegra said:

Eighty-six years? 

But he negotiated it down to seven and a half...did I miss something? I do admit I was a bit unclear about that 86 years number.

[Starchild]

Perfection. There is nothing about that finale that disappointed me.

Favourite exchange:

"What was that with your brother? That wasn't a crime."

"Yeah it was"

[Armchair Critic]

3 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

He's in jail on an extremely light sentence

He is in jail for 86 years. He had it down to 7 years before he confessed.

[Chaos Theory]

I really liked the ending.    You can nitpick all you want but it fit with the show and with the two main characters which were always Jimmy and Kim.   And Jimmy was essentially right,  if Walter White hadn't walked into his office that day he would have ended up dead or in jail in a month.    I loved JImmy asking both Mike and Walt about time machines and essentially what they regretted and their answers made sense for their characters.   Mike has always been a character full of such regret and saying he would change the moment he took his first bribe fits with him.   And Walt saying he would have not left the company he started fits with his hubris.  

I didn't expect to see Marie again but I loved her scenes.   I felt her anger when she thought that Jimmy was going to only get 7 years because the prosecutor didn't want to risk a jury trial.   

I liked Kim's scenes as well when she walked into the law office and volunteered.  I thought she was finally starting to live again.   And seeing her sit there when Jimmy was confessing to everything was just amazing.  I loved her scene in the prison and I wondered if the show was going to pull off a last minute Jimmy and Kim will always be a Leopold and Leob thing and was kind of disappointment that they didn't.  If anything that was the one disappointment I had.    

Otherwise I thought it was near perfect.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[Constantinople]

2 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

No but the prison doesn't know that. She said her bar card doesn't have an expiry date on it. So it's not valid but the prison either didn't care or didn't check.

I suspect impersonating a lawyer is a crime, particularly when you impersonate a lawyer to government officials? Why would Kim do that?

[Penman61]

Viewers who expected a BB-style mega-shootout for this finale: lol what show have you been watching for 6 seasons?

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Kim is practicing law again?

No, she's volunteering in a law office, the type that helps the people she wanted to help. She's answering phones and might give advice. She has an old card that she used to get into the jail.

Jimmy, too, will probably wind up helping his fellow inmates that way. So they both wound up helping the people they wanted to help, but for free and not as lawyers. 

[ahmerali]

Just now, Armchair Critic said:

He is in jail for 86 years. He had it down to 7 years before he confessed.

I see. OK, that part I missed, fair enough.

So let me try this again: Jimmy's conversation with Walt shows that he only wishes he could have been better at getting away with his shenanigans. His conversation with Mike shows that he figures if he just had enough cash he could be beyond anyone's reach. But now in the end he realizes he's going down, and none of that matters, and the only thing that he really cares about is being Jimmy and being able to know that Kim is out there and is OK with him.

Is that about right?

3 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Viewers who expected a BB-style mega-shootout for this finale: lol what show have you been watching for 6 seasons?

I wasn't expecting anything like that, but...well, I don't know. Maybe after hearing other people's thoughts I'll fill in the blanks in my own mind. Right now I just feel that there was so much more potential here, and it was unfulfilled. But I will be happy to be demonstrated wrong.

[Ellaria]

Interesting, unexpected and sad. It was a long road but Jimmy finally accepted the consequences of his actions. This was always going to be his end. 

[Constantinople]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

She's answering phones and might give advice. She has an old card that she used to get into the jail.

You can visit prisoners without fraudulently presenting yourself as an attorney. Kim was identified as an attorney, which means she identified herself as an attorney to federal prison officials. Am I expected to believe that's not a crime?

[SimplexFish]

8 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

But he negotiated it down to seven and a half...did I miss something? I do admit I was a bit unclear about that 86 years number.

Boy did you miss something alright! LOL

[ahmerali]

I'm watching the replay to make sure I catch everything. I did get distract by that darn family I have LOL

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

You can visit prisoners without fraudulently presenting yourself as an attorney. Kim was identified as an attorney, which means she identified herself as an attorney to federal prison officials. Am I expected to believe that's not a crime?

You claimed she was a lawyer again and I was just saying she's not. I don't know what the crime is for identifying yourself to federal prison officials as a lawyer, but it's probably not a stretch that she got away with it without being arrested.

ETA: Also it shows that Kim's real personality is alive again, without controlling her.

Edited August 16, 2022 by sistermagpie

[nodorothyparker]

I'm not sure I really loved this, but it still feels like it made sense for the different animal this show was. Jimmy/Saul has always been his own worst enemy, self sabotaging at every turn for what he thought he wanted more, so it feels right that he would do the usual razzle dazzle to talk himself into a sweetheart of a deal only for original recipe Jimmy to bleed through at the 11th hour to chuck it all for the chance to do one last good thing for Kim. I do like that they made a point of tying back to sweeter first season Jimmy who really did want to do right by his brother to remind us how far gone we got past that in the end.

So in the end, Kim maybe gets enough of herself back to finally do the kind of freebie legal work that was her supposed justification for the Howard scam. And Jimmy is probably a pretty popular jailhouse lawyer, so yeah while it's basically a life sentence behind bars, he'll probably make out well enough. It's probably still less lonely than his assumed life as Gene at the lonely Cinnabon counter.

[Penman61]

Did anyone else catch Jimmy break into a slight smile as the bus prisoners chanted his slogan?

Was he realizing his fame might convert to social capital on the inside? When we see him walking to meet Kim the last time, he seems to be friendly with his fellow bakery worker inmates.

[BeckyThatcher]

Sometimes just by admitting the harm you have done to others, releases both parties from some internal constraints. 
 

Simply beautiful ending. Heartfelt and honest, and  piercing starkness. 

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Did anyone else catch Jimmy break into a slight smile as the bus prisoners chanted his slogan?

Was he realizing his fame might convert to social capital on the inside? When we see him walking to meet Kim the last time, he seems to be friendly with his fellow bakery worker inmates.

I took it as that, but also that he could accept parts of Saul Goodman too, since to guys like this he really had helped them out. He didn't have to run from Saul either. People would know him as that in jail, but not in the same way he used the name before.

[DrSpaceman73]

It's not explicitly clear but my impression is his added time and more confessions helped to keep Kim out of jail and from being prosecuted.  I'm just going with that as the short answer.  How?  Tv law magic. 

And if he had any money left Howard's wife will go after that instead of Kim in a civil suit. Assuming the government didn't seize it already. He probably had some they didn't know about. 

I thought the 7 year sentence was bs anyway. There were multiple charges, many, so it's not just convincing one juror with his story. It's convincing one juror for every single charge against him.  

I liked the finale despite thinking the show was always good but never near breaking bad. Seems many didn't like it. But I never expected a breaking bad style ozymandias episude here.  Not this shows style. The Howard killing was the high drama action moment for the show. 

[Simon Boccanegra]

3 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Did anyone else catch Jimmy break into a slight smile as the bus prisoners chanted his slogan?

Was he realizing his fame might convert to social capital on the inside? When we see him walking to meet Kim the last time, he seems to be friendly with his fellow bakery worker inmates.

Yep. "Me on top...like always," he had predicted to Bill Oakley. And then we saw him not doing so badly in prison. It's still prison, but he can have as comfortable existence there as one can. 

[Sailorgirl26]

5 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

You can visit prisoners without fraudulently presenting yourself as an attorney. Kim was identified as an attorney, which means she identified herself as an attorney to federal prison officials. Am I expected to believe that's not a crime?

ADX Montrose is apparently the "Alcatraz of the Rockies" -- a Supermax prison in Colorado. It is unlikely they would have looked up her New Mexico bar license to confirm she was still a practicing lawyer in good standing with the bar.  

As his lawyer, she was able to get one-on-one, no guards around time with him to say goodbye. And it was clearly a goodbye. She had no intention of visiting him over and over again as his "lawyer." She wanted a last farewell with him, so she used her card. 

 

[DrSpaceman73]

7 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Did anyone else catch Jimmy break into a slight smile as the bus prisoners chanted his slogan?

Was he realizing his fame might convert to social capital on the inside? When we see him walking to meet Kim the last time, he seems to be friendly with his fellow bakery worker inmates.

Jimmy/ saul always seemed more at ease  with that demographic or class, however you want to say it, than other typical lawyers. I would bet he'd be popular in prison. 

[dwmarch]

I'd have to rewatch to be sure but I think overall, Jimmy/Saul/Gene finally came to the conclusion that he is not a good person (as reinforced by his conversations with Mike, Walter and Chuck) and jail is where he belongs.

Having said that, he knows the system is a perverse one and he knows that he can use his skills for evil, pleading down to seven years. I think he blew that deal up on purpose as a means of highlighting flaws in the justice system and making sure they gave him the punishment he deserved.

Now that he's in jail, he's instantly popular because he's among his people who immediately recognize him and start celebrating him. And that Cinnabon time did not go to waste as we see him hustling hard in the kitchen! He's still a bad person but he's in the best place he could be in and he can still do some small measures of good (whether it is baking or legal advice) to redeem himself. And most importantly, Kim hasn't turned her back on him. She's still his partner in crime since as noted, she used expired credentials to get into jail when she didn't even need to. And then they sneak a smoke in a place that is probably strictly non-smoking. The only color in the Gene timeline that we see is the flame between them. It's not a big flame but it's still there.

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

ADX Montrose is apparently the "Alcatraz of the Rockies" -- a Supermax prison in Colorado. It is unlikely they would have looked up her New Mexico bar license to confirm she was still a practicing lawyer in good standing with the bar.  

As his lawyer, she was able to get one-on-one, no guards around time with him to say goodbye. And it was clearly a goodbye. She had no intention of visiting him over and over again as his "lawyer." She wanted a last farewell with him, so she used her card. 

 

I didn't take that last scene as clearly goodbye. She wasn't going to be coming in and out as his lawyer, but I think they'll be in touch. They can do that now without hurting others.

[Penman61]

7 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

As his lawyer, she was able to get one-on-one, no guards around time with him to say goodbye. And it was clearly a goodbye. She had no intention of visiting him over and over again as his "lawyer." She wanted a last farewell with him, so she used her card. 

 

Oh, if you’re right, that is sadder than I’m prepared for.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Penman61

[Scout Finch]

I went to watch it live at 6:00 PST but AMC was crashing and by the time it stopped I didn't want to start watching it several minutes in so I waited until the 7:00 airing. So sad it's over!!

[thuganomics85]

Going to need some time to digest this, but while it wasn't the explosive, crowd-pleasing finale of Breaking Bad (although, I actually remember some where even disappointed in that one too.  Cant please everyone, I guess!) and I'm not sure if will go down as my favorite series finale of all time, I thought it was a logical and overall satisfactory conclusion to this story and its characters.

Kind of love that Gene didn't even make it out of the city before getting arrested.  While the police response was pretty impressive, I would have found it even more far-fetched if he managed to keep the chase going on for long, so that was a nice twist.  Especially him being found in a dumpster no less.  Kind of fitting in a lot of ways.

Now, what I did find to be the weakest part was the whole "sweetheart" deal thing with the prosecution, because even if they made sure we knew the prosecutor never loss before, to drop it way down to just seven years seemed like a stretch.  I mean, I totally get the idea that juries can be unpredictable and as Saul said, "it only takes one", but I would have liked it to have been more of a negotiation instead of feeling like he just rolled over for him.  Did love that Saul was almost attempting to make it sound like Jesse was one of the masterminds, because knowing what we know, the idea of Jesse being the mastermind of anything is hilarious.  Credit where credit is due though: Saul does know how to manipulate things and like he is sincere, so he might have been able to sway someone.

But, in the end, he throws it all the way, because as much as he likes to put up a wall, the idea of Kim possibly being legally in trouble due to her own confession was too much for him, so he takes all of the blame himself instead.  Yeah, I can buy that.  For all of his massive, massive, massive flaws, Jimmy will probably always care for her and would want to at least make sure she didn't go down with him.  I'll take it!

I know Marie isn't/wasn't the most popular character out there, but I loved seeing her again and getting some kind of closure/justice to what happened to Hank.  She at least deserved that.  Betsy Brandt made the most of her scenes.  Glad Gomez and his wife came into play as well.

Fun seeing Mike and Walter one last time.  Not surprised that Mike would be the only one who would show real regret and say that he would use a time machine to stop himself from accepting his first bribe/going down the path of corruption.  Meanwhile, Walt naturally just regretted leaving his company before it blew up, not taking any responsibility for his own actions, and still made it look like Elliot and Gretchen were the true villains in that scenario.  Oh, and Saul/Jimmy basically just said he would use the machine to get rich, because that's how Saul Goodman rolls!

Kim really did get lucky avoiding any real punishment for her own crimes, but at least it sounds like she might be volunteering at a local law office now, so maybe a penance of some kind will be in the cards for her.

I'm actually curious about how Jimmy will end up in prison.  I do feel like he enjoyed the love the inmates had for "Saul" a little too much.  I doubt he'll ever see the light of day, but I wonder if he or "Saul" will continue to make a name for himself in there.

Glad we got one last Chuck scene.  Their relationship is so fascinating to me.  Both of them truly do seem to care for one another on so many levels, and yet it seems like it causes them to always be at odds.  But I think the brotherly love is sincere, even if it ends up not being healthy.

All in all, this was easily one of the best prequels/spin-offs I ever saw, and while I do think Breaking Bad was slightly better, it still had so many moments and characters that made it a worthy successor and even shine in ways the other didn't.  Looking forward to seeing Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould go outside the Breaking Bad universe going forward, but great job to them and the writers/directors for everything they did.  And that cast of course!  From returning players like Jonathan Banks and Giancarlo Esposito returning and adding new layers to these already really great characters, to the fresh faces like Michael Mando, Tony Dalton, Michael McKean, and Patrick Fabian slipping right into this world with ease.  And then there was Bob Odenkirk and Rhea Seehorn.  For Odenkirk, it was great seeing him continue to show that he's no "simple" comedian, but actually has the chops to not only do some great drama, but headline his own show.  For Seehorn, it was great seeing someone who I wasn't really familiar with (despite a steady resume) blow up like she did and hopefully the sky is the limit for her.  Either way, this was six seasons of great television.

Still can't believe they took a character who was arguably the "comic relief" of his original show and made him and his spin-off one of the most compelling shows of the past few years.

Edited August 16, 2022 by thuganomics85

[maystone]

I wasn't sure where they were going for the first little bit, but once Gene turned Saul up to 11, I sat back and enjoyed the ride. I loved whole bunches of this finale. I thought bringing Oakley in was inspired. Every single scene with the bevy of prosecutors and federal agents vs Saul Goodman was wonderful. And Kim came back. Using her NM Bar card as a con to get in to see Jimmy. That's my girl. The final scenes with the two of them sharing a cigarette clandestinely in that locked room - the tip of the cigarette glowing red in all that gorgeous black-and-white cinematography - took my breath away. The way they both, but Kim especially, were framed by the shadows of the bars was downright 40s noir glamorous, imo. And the final walk - the way they were framed, all that light. Then the camera walls Jimmy away from us. God, this was directed and filmed masterfully.

I loved the chaos of the courtroom. I loved Jimmy giving cover to Kim. How great is it that she's back working at a store-front law firm, doing what she can, what she's allowed? I think it's great, at least :) And Jimmy came back, at last - 86 years with possible time off for good behavior.

I know people wanted both Jimmy and Kim to pay for their crimes, and they did; each in their own way. I believe that many would say it's not enough, especially for Kim.  I disagree, obviously. Honestly, I think that G&G, all of the cast and crew did a stellar job on the finale:  I'm going to miss the show and the characters like mad, but I have six seasons of exceptional story telling to hold on to. And I have no regrets.

Edited August 16, 2022 by maystone

[DrSpaceman73]

Also I thought saul/Jimmy looked a lot like his brother in the last court room scene

[CynicalGirl]

17 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

So in the end, Kim maybe gets enough of herself back to finally do the kind of freebie legal work that was her supposed justification for the Howard scam. And Jimmy is probably a pretty popular jailhouse lawyer, so yeah while it's basically a life sentence behind bars, he'll probably make out well enough. It's probably still less lonely than his assumed life as Gene at the lonely Cinnabon counter.

I just hope she got enough of herself back to dump the yup yup guy.

[chick binewski]

51 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

Nope, he remembered Chuck's advice: when you don't like the path you're on, change it. Confession and atonement.

I loved that scene (and The Time Machine inclusion). The finale had the elements of Jesse's end (his reflecting back on a conversation with Jane about decisions) and Walt's (I liked it!).

31 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I’m not clear how this was “Jimmy sacrificed to save Kim.”

Isn’t this more “Jimmy didn’t do the selfish shitty thing for once”?

25 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Vince did such a convincing job that Saul was beyond irredeemable, ready to screw over Kim for ice cream…then it turned out all to be a ploy just to get her to witness his confession.

I may have to watch again bc I don't think it was really clear when and why Jimmy shifted gears. I'm still not clear on how his shiny suit speech exonerates Kim.  And at the time he demanded Blue Bell, he didn't know Kim went to the DA.

I'm not sure about this ending but I did really enjoy watching this episode and I say that as a fan who has not liked this season at all. It was great to see Marie, although I wish she had told everyone that Walt tried to pull that 'I was forced into this!' crap on her & Hank.

It was nice hearing the actors at the end. Will miss this show very much.

[Sailorgirl26]

okay, so thinking about this. I believe it was a redemption story for Jimmy. Not Saul. Saul -- Gone. Jimmy got his redemption. 

He finally took the right path, not the easy, "Slippin' Jimmy" scam or Saul Goodman schmooze-his-way-out of things. He started to play the manipulation game by telling the "I'm a victim too story" (ironically, the actual truth of how Walt came into his life -- and no one believed him, true to his life -- when he would tell the truth to Chuck, Howard, whomever, they never believed him --a bit of "the boy who cried wolf" syndrome), and got them down to seven years.

But, when he found out about what Kim had done, he faced what was realistically his last chance to show everyone he wouldn't "always be like this," and when it was the most damaging to himself to do so, he still did the right thing and confessed everything, recognizing the price he would have to pay. And knowing that he deserved to pay it. 

When the consequences were the worst and the most long-lasting, he didn't schmooze or slip his way out of it. He returned to the best of Jimmy McGill and faced the consequences --- something Saul would never do, and something Jimmy always wanted to do but never quite managed to because he wasn't strong enough to stand up to Howard, Chuck, Cliff Main, Schweikert, and everyone else along the way. 

So yes, it was a good and fitting ending. And it was a redemption of James Morgan McGill. Just not in the way we have typically seen, or usually expect, redemption stories to conclude. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Sailorgirl26

[Constantinople]

22 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

You claimed she was a lawyer again and I was just saying she's not. I don't know what the crime is for identifying yourself to federal prison officials as a lawyer, but it's probably not a stretch that she got away with it without being arrested.

ETA: Also it shows that Kim's real personality is alive again, without controlling her.

Kim's real personality is committing crimes? The point of Waterworks is that she no longer believes that. But now for plot reasons she does?

[MrWhyt]

11 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

'm still not clear on how his shiny suit speech exonerates Kim.  And at the time he demanded Blue Bell, he didn't know Kim went to the DA.

It doesn't exonerate Kim. He lied about crimes she supposedly had a part in to get her there and then confessed to lying about her. Everyone seemed to have the opinion that she would escape criminal charges for everything she confessed too, but she's still open to a civil suit from Howard's widow.

Edited August 16, 2022 by MrWhyt

[Armchair Critic]

I can see why they felt it needed to be done to redeem Jimmy but that was a big sacrifice being willing to die in prison. He has Kim's love but he may not ever see her again and that's a long time to be locked up. I don't think I could do it.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Armchair Critic

[ahmerali]

49 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Well, I’ll be damned. Actual accountability and consequences.

Vince did such a convincing job that Saul was beyond irredeemable, ready to screw over Kim for ice cream…then it turned out all to be a ploy just to get her to witness his confession.

I really don't think it was a ploy in the beginning. I think he was absolutely willing to use the information he had to try and get a better deal, and only decided to use it as a ploy to get her to the trial when he realized it wouldn't work.

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

I may have to watch again bc I don't think it was really clear when and why Jimmy shifted gears. I'm still not clear on how his shiny suit speech exonerates Kim.  And at the time he demanded Blue Bell, he didn't know Kim went to the DA.

I thought he switched gears on the plane ride. His plan was always to pretend he was going to pin more crimes on Kim, but he was always planning to just confess. He had no new info on Howard to give.

4 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Kim's real personality is committing crimes? The point of Waterworks is that she no longer believes that. But now for plot reasons she does?

Kim's real personality was somebody who sometimes liked to break rules and take risks. Florida Kim was afraid to do or say anything. When she came back to herself she made the decision to volunteer for the type of lawyering she could no longer do as a lawyer, and she pulled a scam to get in to see Jimmy like she wanted. She didn't want to hurt people anymore, not just avoid any and all crime.

Edited August 16, 2022 by sistermagpie

[PeterPirate]

10 minutes ago, CynicalGirl said:

I just hope she got enough of herself back to dump the yup yup guy.

She may have to become Mrs. Yup Yup guy if she wants to do a lot of volunteering.  

This ending was similar to Casablanca.  Ilsa gets sent away with a man she doesn't love.  Rick, until he gets bailed out by Captain Renault, is on his way to a Nazi concentration camp. 

[Constantinople]

20 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

ADX Montrose is apparently the "Alcatraz of the Rockies" -- a Supermax prison in Colorado. It is unlikely they would have looked up her New Mexico bar license to confirm she was still a practicing lawyer in good standing with the bar.  

As his lawyer, she was able to get one-on-one, no guards around time with him to say goodbye. And it was clearly a goodbye. She had no intention of visiting him over and over again as his "lawyer." She wanted a last farewell with him, so she used her card. 

 

In other words Kim's character development since she left Jimmy, particularly everything in Waterworks, was bullshit.

[Penman61]

7 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

In other words Kim's character development since she left Jimmy, particularly everything in Waterworks, was bullshit.

It’s also possible that Kim has learned—the very hard way—that she has to impose constraints on some of her more destructive drives. I find it very believable that she would share a transgressive cigarette with Jimmy (not Saul) but not have to become full-on Giselle ever again.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Penman61

[Sailorgirl26]

30 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I didn't take that last scene as clearly goodbye. She wasn't going to be coming in and out as his lawyer, but I think they'll be in touch. They can do that now without hurting others.

The way it was shot? I think it absolutely was a goodbye and the last time she would see him. The way he did the double-finger guns at her and she didn't respond, and we see Jimmy disappear behind the wall and out of Kim's sight as she leaves the prison. That to me was absolutely a visual representation of him disappearing. But in actual prison, not Omaha Cinnabon prison.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Sailorgirl26

[ahmerali]

5 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

In other words Kim's character development since she left Jimmy, particularly everything in Waterworks, was bullshit.

Yes, thank you. That's part of what still really bothers me...if it's about doing the best atonement you can do, I don't really see it, either for Jimmy or Kim. I'm warming up to the idea that for Jimmy, being a prison lawyer and baking bread for the rest of his life is his 'consequence', but what is hers exactly, for being his enabler of sorts? Yup yup sex?

1 minute ago, Penman61 said:

It’s also possible that Kim has learned—the very hard way—that she has to impose constraints on some of her more destructive drives. I find it very believable that she would share a transgressive cigarette with Jimmy (not Saul) but not have to become full-on Giselle ever again.

So now Kim can leave the prison, saying with absolute truth, "I'm still getting away with it?"

She'll just be good from now on?

Okay, I guess???

[Constantinople]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Kim's real personality was somebody who sometimes liked to break rules and take risks. Florida Kim was afraid to do or say anything. When she came back to herself she made the decision to volunteer for the type of lawyering she could no longer do as a lawyer, and she pulled a scam to get in to see Jimmy like she wanted. She didn't want to hurt people anymore, not just avoid any and all crime.

The whole point of what happened to Howard, and Kim's remorse for it, leading to her confession in Waterworks, is that scams and crimes, even apparently "innocent" ones, have unintended, unforseen consequences. Therefore you stop pulling scams and committing crimes because you don't know where they'll lead.