S04.E01: Chapter One: The Hellfire Club

[paulvdb]

Quote

El is bullied at school. Joyce opens a mysterious package. A scrappy player shakes up D&D night.

[SeanC]

So nice to see everyone again. COVID certainly threw a wrench in things for a while there.

This is the first of our supersized episodes — which they seem to be using to explore as much of the characters’ lives as possible (in an older era of TV this is something you’d do over a range of standalone episodes week-to-week).

Some very period-specific hairstyles introduced this season (Lucas and Nancy, especially, among the leads).

[Spartan Girl]

Dammit why did it have to be the nice popular girl for the first victim instead of that bitch Angela?

Still love Steve and Robin’s friendship. The Family Video setting is fun, but I still miss Scoops Ahoy.

Because I wasn’t a fan of Billy’s eleventh hour redemption, I have a hard time buying that Max would be still so broken up over his death. I get that it was traumatizing, but I wasn’t under the impression they were that close. But grief is a funny thing.

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Because I wasn’t a fan of Billy’s eleventh hour redemption, I have a hard time buying that Max would be still so broken up over his death. I get that it was traumatizing, but I wasn’t under the impression they were that close. But grief is a funny thing.

Yeah, I'm thinking a lot of it probably has to do with how much her family life sucks now -- and maybe that makes her more sympathetic in retrospect to Billy's We're family now so we look out for each other shtick.

[tennisgurl]

"Know who pauses Fast Times at 53 minutes, 5 seconds? People who like boobies." 

Oh Steve, I missed you the most. Steve and Robin continue to be friendship goals, at Family Video or at Scoops Ahoy. 

Its great to have the show back after so long, it feels like a million years since we were last in Hawkins. We are clearly setting up where everyone is now and what everyone has been up to, but the creeping terror is already upon us, poor Christie. But even more terrifying than this new monster is all of the 80s hair, especially in California. Its been so long I forgot how painfully detailed those looks were on this show. Those hair styles, those colors, my eyes...

Poor El. Everything she's been through and now she's missing Hop while dealing with 80s style mean girls. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Clanstarling]

Steve and Robin are still the best, and I'm crossing fingers Robin's crush work out. Their exchange was very cute and felt really natural.

Loved the cutting between the basketball game and the D&D game. Lukas and his sister rocked. In the context of this game, her smartass nature really applied.

Not sure what to think of the Dungeon Master. He's pretty complicated, which is a good thing.

I wonder why the young cheerleader was chosen. I'm guessing her parents died in the "fire", and I know I was supposed to recognize the family portrait, but though the family looked familiar, I didn't.

I think Max loved Billy regardless of the asshat he was. Many people in abusive environments do love those who hurt them. So I think Max is just having an especially difficult and complex grieving process - not to mention just the sheer trauma of the events last season. Though those headaches are foreboding, aren't they?

I felt so sorry for Ell (Jane). The teacher could have been a lot better in the classroom.

The interaction between Joyce and Murry was a lot of fun (with some fun camera angles as well). I wish there hadn't been any pictures released spoiling that Hop's still alive. That would have been a hell of a reveal.

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

But even more terrifying than this new monster is all of the 80s hair, especially in California. Its been so long I forgot how painfully detailed those looks were on this show. Those hair styles, those colors, my eyes...

I always cringe when I see dresses I recognized (not sure if I owned them, or if I just remember seeing them around).

Edited May 27, 2022 by Clanstarling

[nomodrama]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Because I wasn’t a fan of Billy’s eleventh hour redemption, I have a hard time buying that Max would be still so broken up over his death. I get that it was traumatizing, but I wasn’t under the impression they were that close. But grief is a funny thing.

I feel the same, Billy was a terrible person, his 5 mins of trying to be decent at the end did not erase that for me. I hope they don't try and portray this as Max grieving for him like he was a good brother or something. 

Those first few mins....yikes. I can just imagine the discussion that must have been needed around releasing this today with what has been going on in the world. It was difficult to watch. Then the juxtaposition of the mean girl in High School tormenting El. It all hits a bit harder right now. 

I read this is supposed to be the creepiest season yet, and yeah, so far they have delivered on that. My 14 is not sure she wants to watch just yet and I made the mistake of watching this episode after it dropped at midnight. I had to wash my brain out with some adult cartoons after and decided to wait for the rest when it was daylight.....I'm not a fan of horror.....but I love this show and so far it has still been campy enough that it doesn't bother me, until now. 

I'm glad Joyce has been alerted about Hopper right away. 

[bettername2come]

Max's storyline seems believable enough. Like, yes, Billy was an asshole, but I think they've been step-siblings long enough that maybe he wasn't always. The flashback memory showed them meeting pretty young. I can believe he got worse because he was pissed off about the move. And I can see how him dying doing one last good thing  would complicate things more. 

I felt so bad for Lucas when his friends weren't there for him at the game. I did appreciate that Max listened on the radio. 

I liked that Chrissy and Eddie both seemed to be nicely layered characters. Is Chrissy supposed to be pregnant? With the worries about being fat and the vomiting, that was what I assumed, but the getting of drugs seemed to be focus on stopping the hallucinations not anything else. Not entirely sure how I feel about Eddie yet. He made some good points in his conversation with Mike and Dustin, especially with kind of mentoring them to lead the Hellfire club next year, and I liked how sweet he was in the woods with Chrissy and how concerned he was when she started staring weird, but also he seems like he can be an annoying jerk. What did Eddie say was the name of his band? 

So did they hire the world's oldest portrayers of teens to play upper classmen to distract us from our 18-20-year-old freshmen?

Poor El. I enjoyed seeing Will concerned for her, though. 

Glad they didn't hold off on the "Harper's alive" reveal. 

[backhometome]

The dead kids in the beginning was unfortunate given what happened in Texas. 😢

Love Steve and Robin.

I forgot that Steve is older than Nancy/Jonathan. I thought they all graduated. 

[Ambrosefolly]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Dammit why did it have to be the nice popular girl for the first victim instead of that bitch Angela?

So we would actually feel some stakes in solving the mystery right now, no main characters have been killed off.

[paulvdb]

40 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Is Chrissy supposed to be pregnant? With the worries about being fat and the vomiting, that was what I assumed, but the getting of drugs seemed to be focus on stopping the hallucinations not anything else.

I assumed she had an eating disorder.

[nomodrama]

54 minutes ago, paulvdb said:

I assumed she had an eating disorder.

Yeah she seemed to have anorexia or bulimia, the mom/Vecna was saying that it was going to let out her dress so it would fit and then called her a disgusting pig. Those seem like the issues associated with body dysmorphia which leads to eating disorders.  

[DearEvette]

First big ups to the soundtrack, 'Object of My Desire" by Starpoint  and 'Running Up that Hill' by Kate Bush.  It is so 80s! 

That pep rally speech was....something... "They didn't die for us to lose this game."  Dude.  LOL.

This was a bit of a downer, seeing everyone so fractured, relationships changing because highschool is so different from middle school.  It'll be all the sweeter when they save the world again, I suppose.

When we first met Eddie I groaned, he seemed like another Billy at first.  But then I actually began to like Eddie, he has a frenetic energy but seems decent enough underneath.  I wonder if the director was 'give me Robert Downey Junior but with less sarcasm and more ADHD.'

Max annoyed me this entire episode.  Yeah, in-universe she can probably be all sad about Billy.  People cling to toxic family members.  But as a viewer, I am in the camp that Billy was an asshole so good riddance.  And it will make me even more impatient with her for going on as if her pain is so all consuming. Meanwhile, I 100% get El's pain.  So glad Hopper managed to communicate with Joyce.  Wonder how soon she'll tell El?

Absolutely loved the intercut between the D&D game and the basketball game and the the Sinclair sibs for the win! Nice surprise to see Erica (wearing the American flag cape cuz you can't spell America without Erica) and she made a worthy sub for Lucas in the D&D game. 

pondering if I should watch another ep right away....

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, bettername2come said:

So did they hire the world's oldest portrayers of teens to play upper classmen to distract us from our 18-20-year-old freshmen?

Do people just not remember Beverly Hills 90210 anymore? James Vanderbeek for that matter? 

[DearEvette]

How old is the guy playing Argyle?  He looks 30 if he's a day. And no the long wig and the stupid hat does not make him look younger. 

At least with the Eddie character they acknowledge he is a senior who should have graduated 2 years ago.  LOL.

[nomodrama]

27 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Do people just not remember Beverly Hills 90210 anymore? James Vanderbeek for that matter? 

There was recently a local casting call for Mighty Ducks: Game Changers, they wanted 18+ who could pass for high schoolers. 

[krankydoodle]

3 hours ago, bettername2come said:

What did Eddie say was the name of his band?

I think it was Corroded Coffin.

Oof, I felt terrible for Lucas, El, Chrissy, and Max. Meanwhile, I don't care about Nancy and Jonathan's relationship. And this might be an unpopular opinion, but I'm not as big a fan of Erica as the show wants me to be. I loved her in the second season, but started to find her tiresome in season 3. I'm also not a fan of Karen Wheeler's new hairstyle.

I wonder what El intended to do to Angela when she tried to use her powers.

[bettername2come]

39 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Do people just not remember Beverly Hills 90210 anymore? James Vanderbeek for that matter? 

Luke Perry was only 24 during season of 90210. Jason Priestly 21. James Van Der Beek in Dawson's Creek season 1 was 21. Joseph Quinn as Eddie? 29! Pulling a full-on Gabrielle Carteris! And sure, he's playing a super senior, but still.

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

How old is the guy playing Argyle? 

27 now, obviously a bit younger when filming.

He was in the supporting cast of Booksmart, so I enjoyed seeing him in the show.

[Racj82]

2 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Luke Perry was only 24 during season of 90210. Jason Priestly 21. James Van Der Beek in Dawson's Creek season 1 was 21. Joseph Quinn as Eddie? 29! Pulling a full-on Gabrielle Carteris! And sure, he's playing a super senior, but still.

Ian and Gabrielle were in the 30s. James never looked like a real teenager. Especially next to Katie Holmes and the actress that played his mom joked about finding him hot during press for the first season. None of my points are negated.

I never really care about this anyway. People seem to forget how many kids really don't look like kids. I went to school with a bunch of dudes that looked like grown ass men. Even before their senior year. I look basically the same as I did in high school. I already had a goatee by 16. I'm actually smaller weight wise right now than when I graduated. Yeah, the dude looks on the old side but many high schoolers have that look.

[QuantumMechanic]

So Eleven killed most of her “siblings” and most/all of the staff?? Does she remember any of this? Been hiding it all this time or has blanked it out? Well, I suppose it may well be a fakeout.

And I guess Hopper made friends with a guard? How else would that get out. He certainly couldn’t send it himself!

Edited May 28, 2022 by QuantumMechanic

[BlackberryJam]

I feel so much more for Max than I do for El. And I think Sadie Sink is KILLING it with the complicated angst. Love Steve and Robin. The dice rolling scene and basketball shot seemed to go on for about 10 minutes longer than it needed to. That was a bad editing decision.

[festivus]

I'm glad I didn't catch on to Dustin's brainstorm on who to get for D & D cause I cracked up when Erica popped up in her AmERICA Cape. I'm not sad about Chrissy, I thought the actress was terrible and I was bored with how much time they were spending on her. I'd rather have been watching Steve pick up chicks at the video store. He's still my fave. ❤️

[ElleryAnne]

I love the fact that El looked like a junior version of Joyce - similar bangs, similar plaid overshirt.  In my head, it makes sense that as El continues trying to assimilate into society, she'd model herself after someone she loves. 

[meligator]

Robin's crush is Anne with an E.  glad the actress found something new after her show ended.  Hope she sticks around as unharmed as possible.  Poor Lucas didn't have anyone show up for him.

[AimingforYoko]

12 hours ago, SeanC said:

Some very period-specific hairstyles introduced this season (Lucas

I asked this question when I saw it in the trailer: Who the hell is hooking up Lucas' fade in Hawkins?

Eddie is a fine addition to the group and a good rep for the '80s trope character of the kind-hearted stoner.

[Lady Calypso]

Oh, well then. That's a way to close out the first episode of the new season. This new monster is both disturbing and disgusting. 

I will say, as much as Billy was an asshole, he was still family so Max being broken up about it made sense to me. Plus, with all the shit these kids have seen, I'd be surprised if she DIDN'T have some trauma with watching her step-brother die so violently in front of her. Sadie Sink really stepped it up this episode and delivered an amazing performance. I cannot wait to see what else she does this season.

El getting bullied and lying to Mike about it also sucks. I don't even know what El could have done to piss off those kids, but I guess kids can be downright cruel. Still, it made me really dislike them all in a short time and I have a feeling it won't get better.

It did suck to see all the characters so fractured and almost isolated from each other. Dustin/Mike have each other, El/Will have each other and Robin/Steve have each other, but everyone else has new friends or none. It's sad.

Poor Lucas, not having his friends show up to his game.

Despite us only having just met Chrissy, they did sell her terror at being pretty much tortured before a brutal death. All the other new characters? Eddie looks old but at least they acknowledged it. Angela's awful and everyone else is just ok.

I can't say I have an investment in the adults, but I'll wait to see where they're ending up.

[LittleIggy]

It’s so sad to see El bullied and powerless. ☹️

[Blue Plastic]

Meh, I didn't care for this that much.  Hopefully it will get better.  This episode came off more like a supernatural style horror movie with demons stalking teenage victims than anything to do with monsters from the Upside Down or whatever.

They have made El seem kind of stupid, like she regressed intellectually and mentally.  She's supposed to be behind because she didn't get a normal upbringing, but if she's supposed to be a high school freshman, then she's been getting some regular schooling for at least three years now.  They seemed to be strongly hinting that if she still had her powers she would have torn the 'mean girl' apart, literally.  But I'm sure it's a fakeout.  But she forgot that she didn't have her powers and acted weird in front of people who are already trying to humiliate her?

Still not buying Max being so torn up over Billy's death.  It would be a traumatic thing to experience, for sure, but he was an abuser so it would also probably be a relief for him to be gone.  Actually I don't mind them showing her having mixed or complicated feelings about his death, but stop trying to act like Billy was super noble, Show.

This Eddie guy has Billy's hair but seems to be a lot nicer person so far.  Not sure if I like all these new characters introduced when I still haven't accepted most of the other non-original characters and our main band of friends is so fragmented and separated.  I get that things have to change and the OG kids can't stay 11 or 12 forever, but I still don't have to like it!

[LittleIggy]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

27 now, obviously a bit younger when filming.

He was in the supporting cast of Booksmart, so I enjoyed seeing him in the show.

I like Argyle. 

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

El getting bullied and lying to Mike about it also sucks. I don't even know what El could have done to piss off those kids, but I guess kids can be downright cruel.

You don’t have to piss off bullies for them to bully you. All you have to do is breathe.

[BlackberryJam]

Eddie is a take on Eddie Van Halen with the hair just as Billy was Billy from St. Elmo’s Fire. Seeing someone die is traumatic, even if you hated that person. 

[Racj82]

21 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Eddie is a take on Eddie Van Halen with the hair just as Billy was Billy from St. Elmo’s Fire. Seeing someone die is traumatic, even if you hated that person. 

Eh, the way they ending things Max wise made sense. She was sad about losing her brother but still having fun and joking with Lucas. This mopey shit is just extra. I know she's a teenager. Doesn't mean I have to enjoy watching it. The focus of her sadness should be more about her life crumbling after that. Her mom becoming a drunk and them losing their home should be hitting harder than shit head Billy dying at this point.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

I like Argyle. 

You don’t have to piss off bullies for them to bully you. All you have to do is breathe.

Indeed. There seems to have been something about me that just attracted bullies, in both Dundee and Buffalo. I don't think I even talked about my "nerdy" interests enough for them to necessarily know about them.

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

Eddie is a take on Eddie Van Halen with the hair just as Billy was Billy from St. Elmo’s Fire. Seeing someone die is traumatic, even if you hated that person. 

And how it ended will have gotten her thinking about how things could have been better between them if he had lived, naturally.

[thuganomics85]

Stranger Things is finally back!  Thank goodness for the opening recap, because I really forgot about half of the stuff that happened last season: including that almost everyone got split up.

Definitely can see why these episodes are longer than norm because they not only have to show all of the returning players and what they are doing, but introduce new ones well, who will either, at worst, serve as future victims or, at best, become eventual allies.  So far, Eddie is probably my favorite of the newbies despite his hair and over-dramatic attitude.  Like Argyle too simply because the actor was from Booksmart.  Jason wasn't as jerkish as I initially thought he would be, but him using the previous death as part of his "motivational" pep rally speech was questionable at best.  Angela was easily the worst.  Not saying I'm waited with baited breathe to have something bad happen to her and her gang, but....

Oh, and there is also Chrissy, but I suspected early on that she was doomed.  Not sure why this new creature was after her and took her out.  Sounds like it might have something to do with her family?

Good episode for both Sinclairs as Lucas scores the winning shot to win the championship, while Erica rolls the dice to win the game for the Hellfire game.  But judging from Lucas' reaction to the Club celebrating, he clearly misses being with his friends: popularity be damned.

Joyce knows that Hopper is alive now and naturally involved her finding a note in a mysterious doll that Murray had to find a convoluted way to break in case it was a bomb!

Poor Eleven.  Will is clearly trying his best to help out, but I don't see her ever fitting in.  Of course, if those bullies saw what happened in the opening minutes of the episode, they might rethink their attitude here.

Not much of Steve and Robin this time, but they still continue the best.  I understand Robin's hesitation over making a move with her crush due to how it could effect her if she was outed like that, but Steve is onto something that if someone leaves Fast Times at Ridgemont High right when the infamous Phoebe Cates scene happens, they're probably into what she's into!

[Josh371982]

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I like Argyle. 

You don’t have to piss off bullies for them to bully you. All you have to do is breathe.

Yep. Angela reminds me of Chris from Carrie. Just an awful girl picking on someone who's not harming anyone. 

[Josh371982]

I actually liked Chrissy from what was shown, I was hoping she would last and I remember the actress from Greenhouse Academy another Netflix show. I was wondering if the show was doing a take on Nightmare on Elm Street with Robert Englund being in the show in this season, in the Sequence leading to the apparent death of Chrissy. Also seeing some similarities to Carrie with El being bullied by that Awful Angela 

[Taryn74]

10 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

Still not buying Max being so torn up over Billy's death.  It would be a traumatic thing to experience, for sure, but he was an abuser so it would also probably be a relief for him to be gone.  Actually I don't mind them showing her having mixed or complicated feelings about his death, but stop trying to act like Billy was super noble, Show.

I actually now pretty firmly believe that there was more to Billy and Max's relationship than what we were shown. Here's a fanwank I typed up after rewatching Season 3 a while back. The more I thought about it the more sense it made.

Quote

I'm just going to go ahead and fanwank that Billy's dad killed his mom, and that's why Billy was such an OTT a-hole. His inexplicable rage toward Max and having to move to Hawkins would make sense if there was more to the story than just his parents were divorced and his dad was abusive. It would explain him not standing up to his dad even when he was being abusive toward him, because he knew how far his dad was capable of taking things. It could even explain his attitude toward Max dating Lucas and hanging out with the other kids - in his weird, messed up way he was trying to keep her from doing anything to put her in his dad's bad graces.

.....

You know, when I said this I was kind of halfway kidding, as in it would be a storyline that would be a good explanation but I didn't really think it would fit everything we were shown. But it was bugging me so I went back and watched the parts of the episode where El sees all of Billy's childhood visions, and I actually think there could be something to it! We see Billy's father yelling at his mother and accusing her of cheating on him, which she denies, then Billy tries to stop his dad but since he's just a kid his dad pushes him aside and punches the mom. When he punches her there's a clap of thunder that sounds suspiciously like a gunshot. Then we see Billy on the phone with her, crying, asking why he can't come be with her. The next set of scenes with his father is when he meets Max for the first time, she looks to be about 9 or 10 yo (so it would be a couple of years before they moved to Hawkins). Billy is much more subdued in this scene, but obviously unhappy, and the way the father is talking to him has more of a sound of ominous calm than when he was flying off the handle all the time.

So, what if - what if! - after Billy got a little bit older he tried to run away to go live with his mom, his father chased him down and in a fit of rage he killed her and had to move his new family away, threatening Billy in the process that if he ever told anyone what happened he would do the same to him and/or Max. I could see it.

[SnapHappy]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I understand Robin's hesitation over making a move with her crush due to how it could effect her if she was outed like that, but Steve is onto something that if someone leaves Fast Times at Ridgemont High right when the infamous Phoebe Cates scene happens, they're probably into what she's into!

Unless she has a brother that left it there.  Obviously no ubiquitous "Be kind, Rewind" sticker on that VCR tape! 

Oh, that veritable sea of multi-hued stonewashed denim brought back SO many memories.  I graduated in the mid 80's, so I was there.  And yes, I wore it.

Angela tried to do the "Regina George" thing, but Chrissie actually looked like Rachel McAdams to me.  I'm surprised in a school that large, any of the "cool kids" even bother to notice El, despite her strangeness.  Most teens that age are so much more into themselves and their besties than others not like them.  I saw outright ignoring as a lot more prevalent back then than bullying.  

Funny how so many of the episodes end with the on-screen words "WET SQUELCH".  *LOL*

[Steph Sometimes]

21 hours ago, nomodrama said:

.I'm not a fan of horror.....but I love this show

I hate most horror, but I love this show too. I just look away at some of the bloodier parts.

I think it's the writing and the humor and the characters. I like Eleven. I like Will and Joyce and Hopper. I like Dustin and Lucas. I like Steve and Robin. I like Nancy. I like Max. I liked that most of the episode was about the characters and their relationships and only the beginning and very end was horrorish and gory. I know that won't last but I enjoyed it for the moment.

The fact that the kids were obviously so much older than they were playing was funny. We're not quite at Wet Hot American Summer levels, but we're getting there.

I do not like Mike.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I appreciate the fact that they are acknowledging and paying homage to another huge part of 80s pop culture - the teen movie. It's pretty obvious to me that they are having a little fun with the tropes in a John Hughes movie.

I don't really have any issues with where they are going with Max. I don't think they are trying to imply Billy was so wonderful. But their family was obviously dysfunctional before Billy was possessed by the Mind-flayer and Max is dealing with that. And Billy was killed right in front of her, in an incredibly violent way. It's no surprise she's still processing that.

I hope Lucas's parents were at that game because as it was, no one who is supposed to care about him - friends, sister, or ex-girlfriend - were there. I felt bad for him about that.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

Obviously no ubiquitous "Be kind, Rewind" sticker on that VCR tape! 

LOL. One of our neighbors had one of those machines made specifically for rewinding tapes so you didn't have to wait on your VCR to do it in between movies. I thought that was the height of luxury!

16 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I hope Lucas's parents were at that game because as it was, no one who is supposed to care about him - friends, sister, or ex-girlfriend - were there. I felt bad for him about that.

For real. Like, damn, guys! He just won the championship game!

[overtherainbow]

1 hour ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I hate most horror, but I love this show too. I just look away at some of the bloodier parts.

I think it's the writing and the humor and the characters. I like Eleven. I like Will and Joyce and Hopper. I like Dustin and Lucas. I like Steve and Robin. I like Nancy. I like Max. I liked that most of the episode was about the characters and their relationships and only the beginning and very end was horrorish and gory. I know that won't last but I enjoyed it for the moment.

The fact that the kids were obviously so much older than they were playing was funny. We're not quite at Wet Hot American Summer levels, but we're getting there.

I do not like Mike.

They are really going full-on Nightmare on Elm Street this season with the gruesomeness. Weren't kidding about upping the horror. Dead children lying in puddles of their own blood, bones cracking,eyes popping out of skulls. And I thought the body horror was a bit much last season. I miss the mystery/eerie element! 

I like that Max is getting more character development this season though. A guidance counselor who actually seems to care about kids, that's a first.

It's funny, I liked Mike in previous seasons but he's becoming a bit meh. His whininess gets annoying.

[janie jones]

I think Max is partly messed up by Billy's death, but part of it is that her home life went from bad to bad in a different way. She went from living in a decent house where abuse was going on to a trailer park where there's a drug dealer across the way and next door neighbors who don't feed their dog, with a mom who drinks herself to sleep every night.

On 5/27/2022 at 8:20 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Still love Steve and Robin’s friendship. The Family Video setting is fun, but I still miss Scoops Ahoy.

Same. But I thought they were supposed to be in the same grade. When she was telling him last season that they had Mrs. Click's class together sophomore year, I had thought they were both sophomores at the time. So I was confused as to why she was going to a pep rally in their first scene.

23 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I felt so sorry for Ell (Jane). The teacher could have been a lot better in the classroom.

Why did the teacher tell the mean girl that she was right? She could have just said that this was Jane's interpretation of the instructions. And did the teacher not check in to see who they were doing their projects on? That scene made me cry.

15 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

So Eleven killed most of her “siblings” and most/all of the staff?? Does she remember any of this? Been hiding it all this time or has blanked it out? Well, I suppose it may well be a fakeout.

It made me wonder if some of the training they previously showed her doing, like crushing the Coke can, wasn't teaching her how to use her powers, or testing her powers, but teaching her to control her powers. Like, we know that if she screams in a fit of rage, it will break all the windows in the vicinity. Maybe unrestrained emotion used to kill people.

15 hours ago, ElleryAnne said:

I love the fact that El looked like a junior version of Joyce - similar bangs, similar plaid overshirt.  In my head, it makes sense that as El continues trying to assimilate into society, she'd model herself after someone she loves. 

I was thinking the same thing. One of the stills in the episode menu shows the group of kids standing together, and I wasn't sure at first which of the two of them it was.

14 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

They have made El seem kind of stupid, like she regressed intellectually and mentally.  She's supposed to be behind because she didn't get a normal upbringing, but if she's supposed to be a high school freshman, then she's been getting some regular schooling for at least three years now. 

The first three seasons spanned two school years, plus the summer. The first season showed the fall of 1983 and subsequent to that, she was living in the forest until she went to live with Hop in the winter. The second season was in the fall of 1984, and at the end, Paul Reiser told Hopper to continue to keep her hidden for about a year. The third season was the summer after that school year, when she was still being kept hidden until Max started taking her to the mall. That was the summer before this season. So this is the first school year she's ever been formally educated. I'm actually surprised she's in regular classes. I can't imagine the tutoring Hopper was giving her got her up to grade level, and who knows what she was taught at the lab. But then again, she might not be at grade level, since she's failing at least her math class. It made me wonder if Joyce obtained fake transcripts or something. I think realistically, the bullies would be calling her the r-word.

2 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I do not like Mike.

I have never liked Mike.

Edited May 28, 2022 by janie jones

[Chicago Redshirt]

What did the note about Hopper say?

[Redrum]

I thought the teacher agreed with the mean girl because there was really no denying the mean girl was right about the parameters of the assignment. I didn't take it as the teacher siding with Angela, I thought it was more of a 'yeah Jane missed the premise but let's move on, lots of projects to go thru' and while El did mess up, its a not a huge mess up.... if her dad was in the papers then he kind of qualifies, its just not really what the assignment was going for.

I will say El came off a lot more mentally slow than I thought was necessary.

I don't dislike Mike but I think I'm just not romantic enough to buy that he's been that into El. He also doesn't seem all that bright.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Redrum

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, overtherainbow said:

I like that Max is getting more character development this season though. A guidance counselor who actually seems to care about kids, that's a first.

When Buffy got one, he died soon after. :(

7 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

I actually now pretty firmly believe that there was more to Billy and Max's relationship than what we were shown.

The official novel Runaway Max also has information on that.

[PurpleTentacle]

I have to say it: That's not how D&D works.

First of all, you never know how much HP a monster has left. That would take away part of the fun. The DM will tell you when a monster is bloodied and maybe once it's close to death, but never numbers. It's even discouraged for players to share their HP, though they inevitably will. I'm also not sure when you'd ever roll a D3, D8 and D10 at the same time.

Second, you don't come with your own character of random level into a new campaign. The least you have to do is adapt your level to the other players. Otherwise it's going to get imbalanced and that's no fun. Not sure why no media gets that right. Just saw the role players from Simon the Sourcerer II a few days ago and everybody in that campaign had different levels for some reason.

AD&D used to be a lot less forgiving than current versions, but I still can't see a scenario where only two players are left standing and they don't frantically try to pour healing potions down the gullets of their unconcious friends. Just going full out against the baddy is not a good strategy here. Unless those friends are dead-dead and the cleric is amoung them, but I don't see how that would have happened to all of them with two still standing.

Also I don't think any DM would allow a huddle. Especially not as strict of a DM as this one was depicted as. It breaks the flow of the game and your characters wouldn't have time for that. A round in D&D is 6 seconds.

Dustin rolled an 11 at the end there. With Bonuses and considering that they must be pretty high level to go against Vecna, I'd expect that to hit, especially since Vecna didn't have his eye or his hand (both immensly powerfull magical artifacts). But of course I don't know his character or how this particular Vecna is stated. So maybe not. Might have just missed.

Still, nice to have D&D shown in a positive light in a mainstream show. It's a bit weird to have it compared to a sports match, because it makes it seem like it's the DM vs. the players, which it's not, or shouldn't be, but it did make for good television.

Edit: For those interested, here is Chris Perkins (senior story designer at Wizards of the Coast) talking about Vecna.

Vecna is also featured in campaign 1 of Critical Role and got a name check in the Legend of Vox Machina (under the name "the whispered one", since they don't use copyrighted names there.)

---

This episode was interesting enough. We'll see how this plays out.

Edited May 28, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[Taryn74]

44 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

The official novel Runaway Max also has information on that.

Ooh, I'm intrigued! Do you buy that in book form, or ???

[rhiamon]

20 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

So Eleven killed most of her “siblings” and most/all of the staff?? Does she remember any of this? Been hiding it all this time or has blanked it out? Well, I suppose it may well be a fakeout.

I'm pretty sure they were referred to as Ten when picked up for the tests, so I assume it was El's predecessor rather than her.

[PurpleTentacle]

3 minutes ago, rhiamon said:

I'm pretty sure they were referred to as Ten when picked up for the tests, so I assume it was El's predecessor rather than her.

10 was one of the kids that were killed. 11 killed them. That was pretty clear. Unless there is a twist where she has a twin sister or something.