S06.E16: Family Meeting

[LakeLover]

On 5/11/2022 at 6:50 PM, Clawdette said:

As someone who earned four degrees, the last one culminating in a doctorate, my brain absolutely could not comprehend Kate's matriculation and advancement.  I just let it slide when it was first spoken so I could focus on the following dialog.  But, when I went back to try to figure out the dynamics of all that education, and required job experience to qualify for a state-level position , I couldn't stay focused.  My mind quickly diverted to other endeavors not remotely Pearson-related.

I know this may not seem like a big deal, but holy cow, this may be the most unrealistic utterance of the entire series.  (And that's saying a lot.)

I don't understand why she just couldn't have attained her degrees and had a great position at a school, or even a school district. A guy I went to high school with was the music director for a large school district in New York and he was revered!

I went back for a second Bachelor's degree in my mid-30s and then a Master's when our youngest of three was 18 months. It was brutal, and none of my kids were special needs. About the only thing I had to do (other than secure child care for night classes until my husband got home) was buy everyone lots of extra socks and underwear.

[mansonlamps]

7 minutes ago, LakeLover said:

I don't understand why she just couldn't have attained her degrees and had a great position at a school, or even a school district. A guy I went to high school with was the music director for a large school district in New York and he was revered!

I went back for a second Bachelor's degree in my mid-30s and then a Master's when our youngest of three was 18 months. It was brutal, and none of my kids were special needs. About the only thing I had to do (other than secure child care for night classes until my husband got home) was buy everyone lots of extra socks and underwear.

Because then she wouldn't have equalled her (probably) POTUS and Oscar/Emmy winning brothers!  

[qtpye]

9 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

When I think of the word magical, it brings to mind something mystical or extraordinary. Maybe because I related to all that Rebecca did for her children when they were small, as something that all moms do for their children. I never would have thought of myself as magical. However, Rebecca's children did think of her as magical so she was magical.

That still did not stop them from treating her like crap most of her life.

Randall sacrificed for her but I got the feeling he thought she was too weak and stupid to be by herself. He did not really respect her as shown by how he tried to emotionally blackmail her into doing that treatment.

Kevin was a jerk to her, particularly when he was younger and Kate hated her for having the audacity to be thin.

Some of this is on Rebecca. She leaned on Randall too much, neglected Kevin, and was too desperate to be friends with Kate to properly discipline her as a mother.

I remember when she got into her car accident, Jack made the kids go into the hospital room and spend the night with her because he could not take care of them for one fricken evening.

They never gave Miguel the respect he deserved because in truth they never really respected Rebecca, as her own person, all that much.

[Josiemae]

6 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I think it's pre-ordained that Randall will be POTUS.  I thought that as soon as he ran for Senator. 

And Kate will become the Secretary of Education.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Josiemae

[Blakeston]

21 hours ago, Shermie said:

Odd comparison. Justin Hartley did some soap work and guest roles on network shows, but didn’t get anything regular until he was in his 30s. He became famous for TIU in his late 30s.

 

10 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

May I present George Clooney, who was 33 when he started on ER. ( I have always thought of George Clooney as the model for Kevin.)

Justin Hartley was on a soap opera for years when he was in his 20s. George Clooney had a ton of credits before ER, including several seasons of Roseanne.

With Kevin, we're supposed to believe that he never got anywhere except a few episodes of Nashville until he was plucked from complete obscurity to be the sole lead of a network show. That makes far less sense than Hartley or Clooney's career trajectories.

With Randall, what's bizarre isn't that he got into high office without working his way up the political ladder. It's that he didn't do anything to build a profile in Pennsylvania in his entire life, until he miraculously won a city council election without even living there.

[mansonlamps]

32 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

 

Justin Hartley was on a soap opera for years when he was in his 20s. George Clooney had a ton of credits before ER, including several seasons of Roseanne.

With Kevin, we're supposed to believe that he never got anywhere except a few episodes of Nashville until he was plucked from complete obscurity to be the sole lead of a network show. That makes far less sense than Hartley or Clooney's career trajectories.

With Randall, what's bizarre isn't that he got into high office without working his way up the political ladder. It's that he didn't do anything to build a profile in Pennsylvania in his entire life, until he miraculously won a city council election without even living there.

George Clooney was positively goofy looking (imo) in Facts of Life and Roseanne. In ER he finally came into his own,  though who knows if he would have been given so many chances of he didn't have such a famous family.

[Johnny Dollar]

6 hours ago, Patricia07 said:

Kevin does a documentary about Alzheimers and wins an Oscar or Emmy. 

I say he turns it into a movie for an Oscar, a behind the scenes tv documentary for an Emmy, a Broadway musical for a Tony and a spoken word album featuring Randall speechifying for a Grammy. Only a Pearson could earn an EGOT from one project. 

[MBayGal]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:44 PM, qtpye said:

if Randall can be a US senator with next to no government/political experience and Kevin can be a fairly famous/successful actor not coming from NYC or LA and being reared to that career from an early age,

I think of Aaron Paul, who grew up in a small town in Idaho and moved with his family to Boise around high school.  Other than being in school plays, he was not reared for his career. He moved to Hollywood and after dozens of commercials and one-episode appearances, he had a small recurring role in HBO's Big Love, and then starred in Breaking Bad. Several TV shows and a few movies have followed. So I can believe Kevin's story a lot more easily than Kate's.

Edited May 14, 2022 by MBayGal
added a fact

[maggiemae]

On 5/12/2022 at 8:00 PM, Shermie said:

Trump.

Odd comparison. Justin Hartley did some soap work and guest roles on network shows, but didn’t get anything regular until he was in his 30s. He became famous for TIU in his late 30s.

Nor did Tom Selleck...

[sashabear21]

I remember first seeing Justin Hartley on Passions because his character was named Fox, and that was hilarious!  And also does no one remember Clooney's work as Sela Ward's cop husband on that show "Sisters" in the early 90's? 

[GeorgiaRai]

I remember George from E/R, long before he was on ER. 

[Eureka]

35 minutes ago, sashabear21 said:

I remember first seeing Justin Hartley on Passions because his character was named Fox, and that was hilarious!  And also does no one remember Clooney's work as Sela Ward's cop husband on that show "Sisters" in the early 90's? 

I loved that show.

[Scarlett45]

On 5/10/2022 at 9:12 PM, Blakeston said:

So Rebecca dealt with the kids when they were were crying at night. And Jack woke Rebecca up from desperately needed sleep when Kevin crapped the bed - instead of cleaning it up himself.

Not at all surprised.

Yes I thought about that. It doesn’t take TWO adults to wash a BABY, strip a bed and remake it with fresh sheets! Throw the laundry in after the baby is washed and the bed remade.
 

 I have done that all alone with a 5’9 adult. Yesh Jack what the hell. 

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, sashabear21 said:

I remember first seeing Justin Hartley on Passions because his character was named Fox, and that was hilarious!  And also does no one remember Clooney's work as Sela Ward's cop husband on that show "Sisters" in the early 90's? 

Yes, one of the first female-centric shows, I think. Maybe even predated Sex in The City?

It is true that George grew into his looks. He went from goofy to gorgeous.

Actually, I think a lot of men are best looking in their 30s. It can also be true for women but Hollywood is much more ageist about women.

[Scarlett45]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:35 PM, MamaGee said:

Since we are all talking about how this show meets us right. where. we. are, I have to add my 2 cents. I am an almost empty-nester, who is dealing with how much my role has and will change. Due to my husband's career and our choice, I stayed home with our kids. I am so thankful for that opportunity and wouldn't change that choice for anything. 

However, as they launch from our home, my role is changing, my identity is changing, etc. And I find myself wondering if my kids will remember. And watching Rebecca do all the mommy things, from reading bedtime stories to tying shoes, etc. made me realize one of the questions I have about the changes I am going through: will they remember? Will they remember our nightly routine? Will the remember the smoothies I made everyday after school? I don't need them to remember FOR me, I just hope they will fondly look back and remember.

Off to cry now....

I concur with @CountryGirl- they will remember. 
 

When someone is truly loved it leaves a mark on our hearts that we never forget. 

On 5/13/2022 at 9:05 AM, mostlylurking said:

I think Kate made the best decision to leave her mom at the cabin. That had been her final wish. She will be able to stay in her familiar environment with the round the clock care she is used to. It also makes the most sense for Kevin and his family to move there as they have the most freedom with their jobs. In reality Kate wouldn’t have much time to make a cross country visit very often, but this is Pearson land where geography doesn’t exist so I’m sure she will visit plenty.

I agree. 

[Rootbeer]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:20 PM, CountryGirl said:

I have many, many friends and acquaintances who have done the same (getting a degree while caring for young kids, some SAH parents, some with a part-time or full-time job, some with, some without a spouse). Kate is not a unicorn here but I can agree that if one dislikes Kate, then they are going to view this differently, despite that the degree and the current job is several years in the making and completely in the realm of possibility.

My problem isn't that Kate went out and got her degrees; it's that the Kate we saw through the years was not a person who would've ever been able to do this.  She diddled around in college for 10 years and didn't graduate.  Apparently, she underwent a huge transformation in her ambitions and work ethic which resulted in this turnaround.  Unfortunately, we got multiple episodes of her first marriage falling apart and then her second wedding instead of the much more interesting story of her evolution and passion for educating special needs kids.  However, for her to have gotten her Master's just a couple of years earlier and to have been an actual teacher (not an aide) in a classroom for less than a decade; it is unrealistic for the show to try to tell us that she has now risen to an elite position in her profession and is developing curriculum.  Unless Kevin or Randall set her up with the gig.

As far as Randall getting to the Senate during the timeline of the show, it has happened a few times in real life.  Not often, but it has happened.  There are several people serving in the US Senate today who had never held elected office prior to that.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Rootbeer

[mansonlamps]

3 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

My problem isn't that Kate went out and got her degrees; it's that the Kate we saw through the years was not a person who would've ever been able to do this.  She diddled around in college for 10 years and didn't graduate.  Apparently, she underwent a huge transformation in her ambitions and work ethic which resulted in this turnaround.  Unfortunately, we got multiple episodes of her first marriage falling apart and then her second wedding instead of the much more interesting story of her evolution and passion for educating special needs kids.  However, for her to have gotten her Master's just a couple of years earlier and to have been an actual teacher (not an aide) in a classroom for less than a decade; it is unrealistic for the show to try to tell us that she has now risen to an elite position in her profession and is developing curriculum.  Unless Kevin or Randall set her up with the gig.

As far as Randall getting to the Senate during the timeline of the show, it has happened a few times in real life.  Not often, but it has happened.  There are several people serving in the US Senate today who had never held elected office prior to that.

So agree with this post.  They show Kate as an underachiever since childhood,  but suddenly when she has two toddlers in her mid thirties she divorces, remarries and becomes this ball of energy, confidence and ambition,  I just don't buy it.

[salvame]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:09 PM, Evagirl said:

I don't mind when timelines do not make sense or when someone is absent or that the ages really don't match up or that the careers are totally off center.  I love this show and will miss it very much.

I watch it for the pure pleasure of being entertained and having my emotions compeletely drained.  My sister walked into the room as I watched the end of the show and I was ugly crying.  She yelled, "Don't tell me!  Don't tell me!  I haven't watched it yet."  Then threw a box of tissue in my lap as she ran out of the room.

I think the last time I cried that hard over a film was when I watched Gone With the Wind and little Bonnie Blue Butler died. Rhett wouldn't let her be buried. because she was afraid of the dark.  Oh my goodness, by the time Hattie McDaniel (Mammy) got through wailing to Melanie, I was sobbing uncontrollaby.  That's the way I felt after watching this episode.

IMO, if you dwell on the "logic" and try to make the pieces fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, you won't enjoy the show as much.  I just go with it - whatever the writers throw out there - and enjoy the ride.

 

 

Thank you. I have been reading all the posts picking on minutia. Except for documentaries, no show is based on reality - even "reality" shows are highly scripted/edited. I don't watch TIS for its reality, I watch to feel all the feels. They do a good job with bringing all those - I don't need to see the reality of alzheimers - I've been through it with people I loved. I do wish they had taken one more season before calling it quits, as, especially Kate/Phillip SL seems to have been rushed, making it hard for the viewer to be invested. All in all, I am glad we will have closure, even if it's not perfect or what we might have chosen. I hate it when a show is abruptly canceled and we never get things resolved. I'm still furious with "Doubt" for that reason.

[Ohmo]

On 5/10/2022 at 9:42 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Kate got her Masters in education and is designing an arts curriculum for the state of California? Okaaaaay.

This is one example of why I'm ready for this show to be over.  The Big 3's belief that they are "all that" got to be a bit much in this episode.  Randal with his pronouncement of moving Rebecca to Philly, Kate's magical M.A. (oh please), and Kevin's "I'm going to get this right if it kills me."  Way, way, way too much "hey look at us take care of our mother."  Aren't we cool?"

And...Rebecca's still alive.  Really, it's time.  She's outlived both Jack and Miguel.  It's time.

[tribeca]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:08 PM, Cosmocrush said:

Beth talking to Phillip about the Pearsons:   "They're always trying to move someone into your house!"  Yep.  Kevin, William, etc.  

Beth’s mom 

[Ohmo]

On 5/11/2022 at 12:12 AM, txhorns79 said:

Beth really is the best.  You'll notice that Randall was proposing his plan to move Rebecca into he and Beth's home before we saw him speaking with Beth about it.  Classic Randall.

Really, there's no need for him to speak to her because she already knows that it's coming.  She could probably give Randall's speech to her herself..  Beth is indeed the best.

"I was never here."

Is it terrible of me that I would have preferred an hour of Sophie and Beth at the cabin?

[izabella]

40 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Is it terrible of me that I would have preferred an hour of Sophie and Beth at the cabin?

You've captured my main lament throughout this show.  I often wanted to see more of things the writers only give us snippets of, while dwelling too long on things I was less interested in.

[Ohmo]

6 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Apparently, she underwent a huge transformation in her ambitions and work ethic which resulted in this turnaround.

And, as has been mentioned upthread, I do not buy that Kate would be on a STATE curriculum committee.  Most teachers who spend a couple years in the classroom get their Master's Degrees.  I have mine.  Most teachers get an M.A or an M.Ed because there's a pay bump involved in most teacher contract scales.  However, when I was teaching, there is NO WAY that I would have been chosen for a state committee for anything.  Those committees are for teachers with serious teaching experience, and even if we're giving Kate 10 years experience, I still don't buy it.

And Rootbeer, we must have a serious conversation.  Every time I like one of your posts, I then want root beer. :)

[ams1001]

24 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

And Rootbeer, we must have a serious conversation.  Every time I like one of your posts, I then want root beer. :)

I am drinking a root beer float as I read this.

(Out of a wine glass, because I'm fancy.)

[Annber03]

I co-sign the comment about wanting more of Sophie and Beth at the cabin :p. Beth is a smart woman and everyone should listen to her (a statement that would not be news to many regular viewers of this show, I'm sure :D). No wonder Randall loves her so much. I also got a kick out of everything with that odd-looking therapy cat. I love the concept, just...yeah. That was a weird looking cat :p. 

I liked the flashbacks to the teen and child years. The baby versions of the Big Three were so cute, and there were some really bittersweet moments with Rebecca and her kids over the years, too. And A+ casting on the younger counterparts, they really do seem like the spitting image of the characters as they are now. I do share in the "What the hell?" reaction to Jack, though - I get the whole point of the episode was to show Rebecca's relationship and history with her children and all that, but yeah, Jack, learn to change a diaper or two.

The ultimate decision at the end was a good one. Especially given Kate pointing out how Kevin and Randall felt uncomfortable around their mom...having her close to where they both live, and having more direct access to her (it'll be a bit tougher for Randall, given his political career, but even so, he'll still be able to make time when possible), will go a long way towards helping them deal with that

How many shows has that "To Build a Home" song been used in? Seems like a lot :p. But it's a good song and perfect for those big emotional moments, so I'm okay with that. 

The conversation everyone's having here about the Big Three's career paths and such is interesting. Just enjoying sitting back and reading through that discussion. 

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, salvame said:

Thank you. I have been reading all the posts picking on minutia. Except for documentaries, no show is based on reality - even "reality" shows are highly scripted/edited. I don't watch TIS for its reality, I watch to feel all the feels. They do a good job with bringing all those - I don't need to see the reality of alzheimers - I've been through it with people I loved. I do wish they had taken one more season before calling it quits, as, especially Kate/Phillip SL seems to have been rushed, making it hard for the viewer to be invested. All in all, I am glad we will have closure, even if it's not perfect or what we might have chosen. I hate it when a show is abruptly canceled and we never get things resolved. I'm still furious with "Doubt" for that reason.

Agree with this. I usually watch it on Hulu but watched the last episode at a hotel, so couldn't follow it well, not used to TV anymore, go figure. So I watched it again. I think TIU is well above average compared with other shows and even if there are things that "don't seem real", that's not the objective of the story. Yes, the Pearsons might be entitled, but This Is Them. The writers and directors do a great job connecting the timelines and the reasons for what is happening in the present/future. 

We are not supposed to know if Randall became POTUS. It is all an illustration of his drive. Arrogant or not, the stories show his personality. Kevin is the one who was the rebel one, took longer for him to grow, then he ends up being the main caregiver of their mother because the central theme is family. He wasn't there when his father died, he made sure to be there for his mom. Katie was the misfit, the problem child, always in the shadows of her brothers, she becomes the one who has to make decisions about her mother's care.

The episode did a great job connection the way Rebecca dealt with each kid's troubles, and how they discussed what they wanted for her future self, as someone with dementia.

The show is about relationship more than individual characters doing their thing in a logical way. It is like Beth said: feelings and speeches. The "illogical" stuff is mostly speculation anyway. I posted before, but Kate's trajectory in the last years of the show's timeline (future) is hard but not impossible. If prisoners do, so can a mother that has at least some privilege and a support network. I have seen it is real life. But it doesn't matter. What matters is how those siblings grew up to become who they are and even if some missteps were made in the writing, things that do not follow, they still did well in connecting the timelines. 

I will miss this show. It is the only one that I really look forward to watch. The rest of my list of shows is more like background noise/hate watch exercise

[debraran]

It's not important really but did they ever give Madison's other son with Elijah a name?

Cute baby and toddler but I guess a prop since once removed from the Pearson family.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

Did they ever say what they did with Jack’s ashes after Kate stopped watching football games with them in her lap? I trying to predict the argument over what to do with Rebecca’s. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Did they ever say what they did with Jack’s ashes after Kate stopped watching football games with them in her lap? I trying to predict the argument over what to do with Rebecca’s. 

I believe the Big 3 or just Kate scattered Jack's ashes at the cabin right before Kate married Toby.

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

It's not important really but did they ever give Madison's other son with Elijah a name?

Cute baby and toddler but I guess a prop since once removed from the Pearson family.

They never even gave Kate's husband a surname; what does a peripheral kid need a name for?

[GeorgiaRai]

My eyeroll at Kate's degree & career wasn't because she couldn't have done it. It was because it felt like the writers wanted to give us one more "told you so" about the breakup of Kate & Toby.  They're telling us that off camera, she began an amazing, confident, fulfilling life as soon as she dumped her first husband (who had been supportive, encouraging and loving until they decided he wasn't).  The throwaway comment about her Master's and her Important Job served no purpose in that moment -  it felt like a cheap way to further the narrative that Toby was bad for Kate, and PJM was so, so good.  No need for us to see any of that - just take their word for it and like it, plebs!!  lol

[circumvent]

10 minutes ago, GeorgiaRai said:

The throwaway comment about her Master's and her Important Job served no purpose in that moment -  it felt like a cheap way to further the narrative that Toby was bad for Kate, and PJM was so, so good.

I don't see it this way. I see it connected with how Rebecca was there for her kids all the time, and why she chose Kate to be her proxy. All connected to little Kate saying she was always behind her brothers, Rebecca telling her that she was a late bloomer but unstoppable once she decided to do things. So she did things and was unstoppable. Once she decided to go alone, her life changed. It is a nuanced connection, it wasn't just to throw the information out there to make Kate look better. It worked for me.

Another part I loved: Kate was the only one who saw Rebecca as still Rebecca The brothers said it wasn't their mother. The scene that got to me was Rebecca's smile when Kevin and Randall were pampering her. She "showed up" at that moment, an emotional memory of her many years of doing it all for and with them and having them with her again, the smiles they showed when she was there cuddling with them - with Kate in bed, and then waking up after the fall, Kevin in the bath after the poop disaster, Randall in bed after the tooth fairy truth. People with dementia do have those memories, they don't remember the people, but the feelings are intact. That's why it is encouraged that families visit the ones who are in facilities, not at home.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

They never even gave Kate's husband a surname; what does a peripheral kid need a name for?

Yes, I just fully realized that so I guess Philip, Edie, they are like "Cher" no need for formalities. ; ) And the cute kid is just Elijah (no last name) and Madison's son. Probably paid less for appearances too without a name. lol

Griffin was saying in an interview he was surprised to know he ended up with Edie (but glad) when they had emphasized Sally so much. I notice with some cast members, they bring them in the loop more, others, find out as they go along and that was later in the show. Milo knew he would die a certain way but his arc with Nicky was more vague.

Edited May 15, 2022 by debraran

[Ohmo]

28 minutes ago, circumvent said:

All connected to little Kate saying she was always behind her brothers, Rebecca telling her that she was a late bloomer but unstoppable once she decided to do things.

I could get behind that theory if there wasn't such a disparity between Rebecca telling Kate that at what 6 years old, and it actually happening at 40.  It's not plausible to me.  Kate couldn't seem to move forward well into her adulthood.  She was alone well before Toby and she was still a mess.  Telling us (through her ex-husband who she put no effort in wanting to stay married to, as far as I'm concerned) that she is a "baller" now is a huge oversell.

Id it great that Kate got her degrees?  Sure.  Good for Kate.  However, this elevation by both Rebecca and Toby that Kate is now this "force" to be reckoned with, and Kate now supposedly had this great "wisdom" about Rebecca is just a load.  Kate was about as disconnected from her own life as someone could be throughout the series, until we get to the last handful of episodes.

This is the fundamental difference between Kevin, Kate, and Randall.

Kevin and Randall's stories unfolded over the course of YEARS, some times with waaaay too much detail, but we saw it.  It's organic.

Kate was presented as someone who's been lost in one form or another for most of the series. It's like Fogelman suddenly realized "Hey, Kate still can't be like this at the end of the series, so we're going to tell the audience to ignore what they've seen for years because Rebecca told Kate something when she was six."

This may be who Fogelman WANTED Kate to be, but he didn't spend enough effort to actually WRITE Kate that way.  He made Kate a variant of a "Mary Sue" instead.

[izabella]

20 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Id it great that Kate got her degrees?  Sure.  Good for Kate.  However, this elevation by both Rebecca and Toby that Kate is now this "force" to be reckoned with, and Kate now supposedly had this great "wisdom" about Rebecca is just a load.  Kate was about as disconnected from her own life as someone could be throughout the series, until we get to the last handful of episodes.

I have to agree.  I think Rebecca must have been having a dementia episode when she chose Kate as her power of attorney.  Frankly, with real dementia where people become paranoid about nothing, she would have been suspicious of Kate since they hardly had a relationship of any kind for decades.  She should have chosen Beth, the only person in that family that can see beyond the end of her own nose.

Edited May 15, 2022 by izabella

[Ohmo]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:55 AM, Janie430 said:

So I get that Kevin was a prat as a teenager, but my heart felt a little bad for him.  I get that Rebecca was overloaded, but her husband was an alcoholic, she knew her father in law was an alcoholic, and her son is coping with a trauma by drinking.  I wish Rebecca had been in a place where she could have had a real talk with Kevin about it, but they've written it that she was just unable to deal with Jack's alcoholism, and therefore couldn't talk to Kevin about it.

Kevin's always been the "forgotten one" from both parents.  They'd remember him occasionally, but not consistently.  Kate was Jack's favorite, Randall was Rebecca's, and Rebecca bonded more with Kate when Jack died as the only girl.

Many of Kevin's choices or behaviors can be traced back to a desire to be seen.

He's an actor (the ultimate "Look at me" career.

He loved Sophie, but I think one of the reasons he married her was to get someone's attention. If he couldn't get attention from Rebecca, he'd take it from Sophie.

His alcoholism Negative attention from Rebecca was better than no attention at all.

Build me a house, Kevin.  OK Mom,.  She's living in something that Kevin had built for her.  An attempt to be in front of Rebecca on a daily basis in a way that he never was consistently front and center as a child.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Ohmo

[Ohmo]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:08 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

Quoting myself here to add - they were mocking the method and predictability of their communication, not the content, and I'm okay with that.

That and "We love our spouses but sometimes those three are so enthralled with their Pearsonness, they get too wrapped up in it."

[ams1001]

33 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Id it great that Kate got her degrees?  Sure.  Good for Kate.  However, this elevation by both Rebecca and Toby that Kate is now this "force" to be reckoned with, and Kate now supposedly had this great "wisdom" about Rebecca is just a load.  Kate was about as disconnected from her own life as someone could be throughout the series, until we get to the last handful of episodes.

I think my biggest suspension-of-disbelief issue is that she's designing arts curriculums at the state level within a few years of finishing her degree. If he had said she got her masters and was a full-fledged teacher whose students love her, that would be easier to buy.

[BluBarbi98]

 

On 5/10/2022 at 9:20 PM, BuckeyeLou said:

  Loved Kate's robotic kitty :)

My mom bought a puppy version of this for my grandmother this past Christmas and she loves it. When Kate walked out with the Cat it really made me emotional. 

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

I could get behind that theory if there wasn't such a disparity between Rebecca telling Kate that at what 6 years old, and it actually happening at 40.  It's not plausible to me.

You see, it is an allegory. It doesn't have to be plausible to viewers. It is the last season of the show, they are wrapping things up. The whole series was a back and forth, past, present, future, and because of this lack of linear narrative, things only make sense in context. Could this happen with someone in real life? No idea. I do know that many people change their lives later in life (raises hand) and do things that have absolutely nothing to do with the previous decades. Success is personal and relative and the explicit declaration of her professional rise is a made for TV moment. The "Kate is so successful" part is 1. TV, last season, feel good ending and 2. to illustrate how Rebecca either really believed in Kate. It is also to illustrate how much she dedicated herself to make the kids feel good, and now it is their turn - which is another allegory when the adult children are in the same room, brushing her hair, rubbing cream in her hands, and she smiles with the memory of the emotion. In the Persons universe, emotional support, family unity and "being there" is what makes up for a success story. Things are going to be "fine" (call it success) as long as they are there to support Rebecca.

I said this before but I think too many people in this thread dislike Kate and don't see the more nuanced, between the lines, not so obvious backstories. It is 100% possible for someone to de what Kate did - like the real examples given here by more than one person - and the fact that there was not a clear, explicit little story to let us know all the steps and growth doesn't make it implausible. It might make it incomplete, and that is a fair criticism - like spending too many episodes with one theme - but each one can fill in the blanks create the narrative that takes Kate from indecisive, messed up, quitter, to a successful and confident professional. It could even be that she cheated her way up. Depends on how each one sees/likes/dislikes Kate. 

 

[Ohmo]

On 5/11/2022 at 5:48 PM, tennisgurl said:

I just find it so bizarre how rushed so much of this season has been. Its been six seasons, the show could have kept going for another season or two at least, they knew that this was the endgame, the show chose to end now, why does it feel like the frantic scrabble you get when a show's been suddenly cancelled, especially with Kate's divorce, marriage, and career, she totally changed her life in about three episodes. 

Agreed.  Fogelman gave an interview where he talked about the show ending because the story has been told.  No, Dan, you could have spent AT LEAST two more seasons showing us the story you supposedly wanted to tell instead of doing what you've done.

 

On 5/11/2022 at 5:47 PM, deaja said:

When Phillip scolded Beth and Madison, I really wanted Beth to reply “and that’s why Toby is still in the in-laws group text and you haven’t been added.” 

I bet Philip doesn't have a cool nickname like "Toblerone" either.

[Crs97]

I really didn’t buy that Kevin needed to be taught how to see Rebecca when we had seen previously that he was comfortable being Jack for her and was helping Miguel help Rebecca and taking over some of Miguel’s routine.  Either the writers didn’t discuss between episodes or they decided to retcon Kevin to prop up Kate.  Well, not in my world.

[Tabbygirl521]

Toby; Should we get back together?

me: YES

(not a Phillip fan)

On 5/10/2022 at 6:37 PM, ams1001 said:

Kate got her masters and is designing curriculum for the state. Huh.

Late bloomer, just as Mom predicted. 

[Tabbygirl521]

On 5/10/2022 at 7:12 PM, Blakeston said:

So Rebecca dealt with the kids when they were were crying at night. And Jack woke Rebecca up from desperately needed sleep when Kevin crapped the bed - instead of cleaning it up himself.

Not at all surprised.

My whole reaction was, “ Miguel would have cleaned up Kevin and let Rebecca’s sleep.”

[amarante]

I just assumed the curriculum position was a nothing type of honorary position with a bunch of "advisors".

I would assume there are a limited number of music teachers who specialize in teaching "arts" to the blind and/or deaf so she was added to the group because she is somewhat of a unicorn.

But I am cynical that way in terms of "committees"

[LexieLily]

3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I bet Philip doesn't have a cool nickname like "Toblerone" either.

'Big Phil' doesn't count.

[LexieLily]

Teen Kate dressing the way she did and wearing more makeup than Rebecca saw her wear before resulted in her getting 'attention' from guys (before Randall put a stop to it.) Was that before Marc?

[Ohmo]

15 hours ago, amarante said:

I just assumed the curriculum position was a nothing type of honorary position with a bunch of "advisors".

I would assume there are a limited number of music teachers who specialize in teaching "arts" to the blind and/or deaf so she was added to the group because she is somewhat of a unicorn.

But I am cynical that way in terms of "committees"

State curriculum boards determine curriculum for an entire state. Then, local school districts and private schools take those recommendations and implement them at the district and private school levels.  Even private schools must show that they are following curriculum that is educationally sound.  They can't just blow off state recommendations.  State committees are a huge deal.  They can also be quite political.  Not trying to start anything, just stating a fact.  There is nothing honorary about them.

Kate is also in California, which is an important state.  I work in educational publishing.  California and Texas are two of the states that people in the industry pay attention to simply because of their size.  Florida comes in third.

I can completely buy her serving on a committee to develop the curriculum for her individual private school or even for a group of private schools in her area of the state.  By this time period, she could conceivably have that experience.  But NOT on a committee for the state of California.  Nope, nope, nope.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Ohmo

[Aloeonatable]

12 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

My whole reaction was, “ Miguel would have cleaned up Kevin and let Rebecca’s sleep.”

Ask Shelly what Miguel would have done.

[GeorgiaRai]

I'm not mad about Jack waking Rebecca.  When your baby and their bed are covered in poo, you need to simultaneously clean both - and, in this case, prefeably without waking up the other 2.  I didn't come away thinking he couldn't have handled it alone if backup wasn't available. 

This portrayal of Jack and the Beth/Sophie convo felt very meta to me.