S06.E12: Katoby

[pennben]

54 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

But that clip from the end of the episode doesn't show the eye-rolling look on Kate's face at the beginning of the episode when she first picks up her phone and sees that it's Toby, visually implying, "Why the hell is he calling me on my wedding day?

If my ex had called me on my wedding day to my new husband, I would wonder why the hell is he calling me on my wedding day, just as you described for Kate’s reaction!

[BoogieBurns]

I think Kevin ends up with Zoe. Because no one said that yet (I'm only on page 4) and his kids aren't little in the flash forward. So she can still travel with or without Kevin. She won't even have to do much raising of the kids.

Their breakup was so amicable. 

[Marley]

7 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

I think Kevin ends up with Zoe. Because no one said that yet (I'm only on page 4) and his kids aren't little in the flash forward. So she can still travel with or without Kevin. She won't even have to do much raising of the kids.

Their breakup was so amicable. 

I had this thought too and it wouldn’t bother me.

Theres too much damage done for him and Sophie. I used to kind of wish for them to get back together but she’s married in the future and it would be kind of ridiculous.

Madison sucks and Cassidy is annoying.

I hope it’s not some random new chick.

Less focus on Kate and Toby at this point would be great lol.

[himela]

17 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

I think Kevin ends up with Zoe

I have said it some time ago and people responded that she didn't want kids and it would be"wrong" if the writers decide to take that route showing that a woman who says she doesn't want kids changes her mind. I don't disagree with that but I think Kevin needs a woman who is strong and indipendent who will also help him become stronger himself. Zoe was the best match for Kevin in my opinion.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Marley said:

Less focus on Kate and Toby at this point would be great lol.

This is episode 12 of an 18 episode final season.  Kate's story is pretty much wrapped up and she should fade into the background for whatever the main story will be until the finale.  I am assuming the finale is the culmination of all the flashforwards to Rebecca's deathbed.  That episode will probably begin with Kate, Philip, and the kids showing up to Kevin's house.  

Edited April 18, 2022 by Ohiopirate02

[Empress1]

33 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

I think Kevin ends up with Zoe. Because no one said that yet (I'm only on page 4) and his kids aren't little in the flash forward. So she can still travel with or without Kevin. She won't even have to do much raising of the kids.

Their breakup was so amicable. 

Zoe was my favorite of his exes. I wouldn’t mind this, although I did like that she stuck to her guns about not wanting kids. She cared enough about Kevin to know that he DID want them even though he said he’d choose her over kids; that’s why she ended it. I think they were good for each other. Zoe was a man eater before (that’s why Beth didn’t want them to date - for Kevin’s sake) and she was able to be vulnerable with him. She is independent, like @himela said, and she challenged him and called him on his stuff. (I also like that Cassidy did this.) I’d be curious how they’d put them back together though. She’s Beth’s cousin but she’s not really close to the rest of the family.

I have a friend who doesn’t want kids but married a man who has them - but 3/4 of his kids were over 21 when she married him (he’s older than she is and started young) and the youngest was a teenager, so my friend didn’t really raise her. She has a good relationship with them all. She, like Zoe, likes kids and is good with them; she just didn’t want any.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Empress1

[Crs97]

Kevin’s kids deserve better than a stepmom that isn’t very interested in helping to raise them, and it isn’t fair to Zoe to be responsible for children she doesn’t want.

[GeorgiaRai]

I just hope whatever the show does with Kevin, they handle it better than they did Kate & Toby.  Be true to the characters.  Don't force feed us baseless emotions.  Don't have people we like do & say stupid stuff they/we can't recover from.  Don't give a known character a personality reboot and hope we don't notice.  Be kind to the people you've introduced us to & allowed us to care about - is that so hard?!? ;)  

I've loved and hated (tv hate, not real!) every character at one point or another.  But this is a crappy time to turn any of them into someone we just don't like any more.  I'm not happy that this season has made me dislike Kate.  It didn't have to be this way, and I hope the show gets to the end without needlessly destroying any more people or relationships.  Sure, real life doesn't always have happy endings.  That's why I watch tv shows!!

[debraran]

I've read more than once Zoe is not returning. Writer said her and Beth's mom wont be last season. This was one:

Since “Our Little Island Girl: Part Two” focused on Beth and didn’t feature appearances by her mother or cousin Zoe, the interviewer asked if fans could expect to see them before the series ends. Freeman answered, “I can pretty much say that we won’t.”

Back when Alexandra asked for time off, Kevin was to "find himself" seeing Zoe, Cassidy and one time others. It was boring for her I suppose not being there but on contract so she asked to do other things too. We know what happened and I feel this awful outline for Kevin was their way of stretching out time. She said they wanted her to do more but she couldn't at the time. That debacle with Madison was so awful, the stretching it out over a year when rumors always had them not marrying. It was awful in so many ways. If he doesn't end up with Sophie, why did they do this awful writing for him? Justin way back said Cassidy would just be a friend he really needed, but who knows? 5 episodes to introduce a stranger no one cares about ?  At this point they burned out many fans who just want the This is Us on speed to end. I wont miss it as much now, it's too crowded, too much, too soon. I do want to see them do a classy job with Rebecca and Miguel and think there has been way to much time spent on Kate's second husband. I mean it could have done earlier and what does it matter? So she moved on, right to another guy.

We will see but point initially was just Zoe is pretty much a no show and maybe for her a good thing. ; )

Edited April 18, 2022 by debraran

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

We will see but point initially was just Zoe is pretty much a no show and maybe for her a good thing. ; )

Right. I just don't root for any of his other exes. I don't feel like I know Sophie. I liked Sloan, but the show forgot about her entirely. Olivia was trash. Cassidy seems to not like Kevin very much. 

I don't know who I want him married to if it's a character we already know. He burns bridges.

[bros402]

On 4/15/2022 at 12:42 PM, Violetgoblin6 said:

Yep. I always look for hints in the deeper future scenes to see if anything has changed, and nope. Nothing new here. I remember in Six Feet Under they at least tried. Somewhat. This episode actually reminded me of SFU when they showed the new Big 3's 6th birthday party and then jumped to 2040s. If anyone has watched the SFU finale surely you must remember the Claire driving scene and how they flashed forward to the near future with Willow's birthday party and then kept jumping, later and later...(that montage destroys me btw, I know the finale of this show will too), believe me, they tore a page from Alan Ball's book.

I cannot hear Breath Me by Sia without thinking of that scene.

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, bros402 said:

I cannot hear Breath Me by Sia without thinking of that scene.

Best series finale ending I think I’ve ever seen.

[izabella]

19 hours ago, Marley said:

Theres too much damage done for him and Sophie. I used to kind of wish for them to get back together but she’s married in the future and it would be kind of ridiculous.

So, let me get this straight.  Sophie married that one guy, the one she was engaged to when Kevin went to see her.  But that marriage ended, right?  Because she was single during that one phone call with Kevin?  But now she is married, so is this husband #2?   It would be pretty pathetic for the writers to have her to divorce #2 as well just to end up with Kevin.

[chocolatine]

17 minutes ago, izabella said:

So, let me get this straight.  Sophie married that one guy, the one she was engaged to when Kevin went to see her.  But that marriage ended, right?  Because she was single during that one phone call with Kevin?  But now she is married, so is this husband #2?   It would be pretty pathetic for the writers to have her to divorce #2 as well just to end up with Kevin.

I seem to vaguely remember that she never went through with the wedding to the first guy (I think his name was Grant). But it was all pretty confusing so I'm probably wrong.

[Dreamboat Annie]

As far as Katoby go, what a relief they're finally over.  Goodness.  They are simply exhausting.  I don't feel this episode and Saturday in the Park were necessary (for Katoby).  I got the message loud and clear at the end of The Hill that they were over (even before the end), and indeed I assumed that was the end of that.  And it should have been.  Kate at the top of the hill after her phone call would have been a poignant way to show us it was over for them.  

If someone who was supposed to love me told me the reason they looked miserable is because I was in the room, I would make sure they never had to be in a room with me again.

A lot happened in this episode and we were given a missing piece or two.  But still it didn't interest me like an episode in the home stretch should.  It actually kind of dragged.  I'm glad to see Madison get her happy ending, even if it's Elijah lol.  If Elijah is meant to be some sort of loveable goofball, then um... fail.  I can echo many others in saying that I don't care anymore who Kevin ends up with, and I too would be just fine with it if the loves of his life are his children (as he himself mentioned the possibility when he learned of Madison's pregnancy).  

 

 

[chitowngirl]

Could Kate leave Phillip at the Altar? Was Phillip in any flashforward beyond the wedding?

[Dreamboat Annie]

1 minute ago, chitowngirl said:

Could Kate leave Phillip at the Altar? Was Phillip in any flashforward beyond the wedding?

I think Phillip was in a flash forward beyond the wedding.  A scene in this episode shows Kate, Phillip, Toby and Yogurt Girl together in a bar (?) to support Jack, who is performing there.  Jack looks mid-20s.  

[Dreamboat Annie]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:08 PM, Eliot said:

Did I hallucinate, or was there a flash forward many, many seasons ago that showed Toby in bed in a dark room sobbing? Or did that already happen and I just missed it?

I was confused about that, too.  There was a flash forward one season showing Toby in bed in a very depressed state.  This was not a far-into-the-future flash as it was revisited and dealt with the next season.  When Randall calls Toby to invite him to see Rebecca, it shows him in bed alone and he asks Randall if he's sure "she" would want him there.  I think this is what set off the whole "are Kate and Toby divorced", but especially the "is Kate alive at the end" speculation.

[Pallas]

From upthread: here's how that conversation between Toby and Randall goes. 

[CountryGirl]

Another thought I had about Toby’s being alone and seeming down in that later episode. I’m not sure but he may have met Laura by then but maybe they are not serious, let alone married or living together just yet. Also, Toby still struggles with depression as it’s a lifelong condition, and is going to have some bad days, along with good days and hopefully much more of the latter. 

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Another thought I had about Toby’s being alone and seeming down in that later episode. I’m not sure but he may have met Laura by then but maybe they are not serious, let alone married or living together just yet. Also, Toby still struggles with depression as it’s a lifelong condition, and is going to have some bad days, along with good days and hopefully much more of the latter. 

I am thinking that Toby went to PA and staying at the hotel in oder to say good-bye to Rebecca and that's why he is sad and alone in the hotel room. He may/may not have met Laura yet but this wouldn't be an occassion where he brings her to it as his plus one.

[bros402]

13 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Best series finale ending I think I’ve ever seen.

I cannot think of anything near it in quality.

[Kdawg82]

At least it wasn't the Randall and every other satellite character that exists around the continental U.S. show again. I was waiting for when they'd get around to sorting Kate & Toby's life. I can at least appreciate a SEMI realistic storyline with them. They're not rich, famous, wealthy beyond the norm.  They seem to have realistic lives. Nothing annoyed me more than the hyper focus on Randall & his panic attacks, Randall & his search for bio-parents, Randall & his adoption of a 16 year old girl, Randall and his issues with Kevin. Then it was the uncle Nicky show. We saw this long lost uncle that hardly anyone knew of go from addict/ hermit to finding sobriety & love with an airline stew. It's been heavy handed and veered off course so badly. I appreciate seeing these characters finally get some type of resolution as they're in the core family & main characters that have been neglected (IMO) for a bit. YMMV. My humble opinion.  I realize I'm in the minority here. Didn't hate the last 2 eps. 

[KaveDweller]

On 4/19/2022 at 12:00 PM, izabella said:

So, let me get this straight.  Sophie married that one guy, the one she was engaged to when Kevin went to see her.  But that marriage ended, right?  Because she was single during that one phone call with Kevin?  But now she is married, so is this husband #2?   It would be pretty pathetic for the writers to have her to divorce #2 as well just to end up with Kevin.

I am pretty sure Sophie said she never married the guy she was engaged to when Kevin saw her at her mom's funeral. So she must have found someone else and married them in the 5 year jump to Kate/Phillip's engagement.

But her husband at the engagement party is her husband #2 because Kevin was her first husband. 

[Jersey409]

Kate is really one hot number. Getting asked out on a drink less than five minutes after signing divorce papers.

[nlkm9]

17 hours ago, Jersey409 said:

Kate is really one hot number. Getting asked out on a drink less than five minutes after signing divorce papers.

17 hours ago, Jersey409 said:

Kate is really one hot number. Getting asked out on a drink less than five minutes after signing divorce papers.

Unrealistic for so many reasons

[Scarlett45]

“Boba Fett fell in the toilet and you have to stop yelling and get him out.”

Out of the mouths of toddlers.

I am loving the little boy playing toddler Jack- he is too precious. I am glad that they’ve hired blind actors to portray him at all ages. 
 

I actually liked Phillip this episode. The story of the break down of his marriage and his wife’s accidental death was told well. You could tell it left a mark on his heart, but it wasn’t a fresh pain.

”I don’t want to be alone, I don’t want to start over.” I’m not married or partnered, but I can imagine how difficult that is, especially if you have young children together. So many years invested, and you have to stay in each other’s lives to raise the kids- and there’s so much emotion. Kate was right though, their story isn’t over. 
 

I liked the green dress with the red flowers and the yellow bag Kate wore to karaoke/paper signing. 

 

On 4/13/2022 at 9:39 AM, CountryGirl said:

This episode was A LOT, especially with all the time jumps back and forth, but in the end and probably UO, I loved it.

I appreciated that we didn't see them immediately throwing in the towel, but that it was revealed that they tried for at least another 16 months as they referenced being in counseling for that long (IMO several months after it was obvious it was over). They did fight for their marriage, but unfortunately, the resentment that was already there grew exponentially when Toby took the LA job he originally turned down (guess it made enough money after all?) and it was clearly a letdown on many levels while Kate was thriving in her new position at the music school.

I had a feeling that Toby moving back to LA wouldn't automatically fix everything between them just as I felt Kate and the kids moving to SF would be putting a band-aid over a broken arm and was proven right. Very quickly, the shiny newness of them all being under one roof wore off and the resentments went from simmering to a full-on boil.

Kate showing up late for therapy when she could have excused herself much sooner was not okay and showed she didn't see Toby as a priority. Toby's comment about Kate's dream job at the New Big 3's birthday party, no matter that he stated it was about the school versus her, was also not okay and they are right back to where we left them at the end of the last episode.

They have what will be the final blowup with Toby calling her out on holding him to an impossible standard of St. Jack and I felt for Toby here because it has to be terrible living in the shadow of a dead man. The reality is that Jack wasn't a saint. He made many mistake, including coddling Kate, being too hard on Kevin, and favoring Randall, the heir apparent to his golden mantle. Because of his work and alcoholism, much of the heavy lifting of parenting fell to Rebecca, which Kate doesn't realize or acknowledge. I did cringe though when Toby said that Kate would have married Jack if he hadn't died. It was a bit much, but yet, that's the kind of influence Jack had on his children. Even if we didn't see many scenes of this, Toby had to have felt this at times.

When Jack throws his toy in the toilet, wanting to stop the fighting, that got to me. As did Toby when he says, afterwards, that he never wanted to be like his parents and having his kids hear fighting and yet, here they are. It's then that Kate realizes she is DONE and that they need to end the marriage.

There's that happy turned sad moment later on when Toby, having moved out, brings the kids home and Jack wakes and is so excited to see them together with his "you're both here."

Which makes Toby want to put the brakes on the impending divorce, painfully and oh-so-realistically confessing that he is terrified of being alone and having to start over yet again and only seeing his kids half of the time (which was so hard to watch) but Kate is resolute because she recognizes that they are better now because they are apart and knows, too, if Toby were to move back in, it would only be a matter of time before they're back to sniping at each other.

Him moving to kiss her and her pulling away and his realization "this is the last time I'll kiss my wife." That gutted me. Knowing that there is still much love between them as Kate stands there, visibly moved, her eyes filled with tears, but knowing that life isn't enough to fix what's broken between them.

A moment of levity after they sign the papers with the Whitney Houston "I Will Always Love You" punctuating the end of their marriage and them having no choice but to laugh together, like they used to. But used to is a long, long time ago.

Kate telling him that their marriage is over doesn't mean the end of their story and she is right, even if Toby cannot see it just then. They were meant to find each other and have two beautiful children, but now their story is leading them on separate paths. But they will always be in the other's life.

I appreciated seeing the Phate backstory, even if it was admittedly rushed by virtue of it mainly being in one episode (perhaps we'll get more in the wedding episode next week). I like that Philip, like any good friend would, took her out after her divorce to get her karaoke on. Have done with a few friends after their divorce (although we only did karaoke once). "Tubthumping" is still one of my favorite pick-me-up songs.

On their first date, it's clear there's still a lot of baggage there and I liked that it wasn't instant love with Kate pulling away after initially grabbing Philip's hand. Then where she lays everything out for Philip so he knows exactly what he's getting himself into and also calls him out on wanting to date her, "a recently divorced, non-toothpick...mother of two."

We finally get Philip's backstory and hearing how their marriage disintegrated in the wake of 3 failed IVFs (I could so relate to that as MH and I went through 6 failed rounds with nothing to show for it but an early miscarriage) and how his wife was tragically killed minutes after his wife had literally walked out the door to go stay with her mother. It explains so much about Philip's more reserved, prickly demeanor, which I never took for "jerk" or "asshole" in the slightest. He didn't immediately get swept off his feet by Kate (remember how he didn't want to hire her given her lack of credentials or experience but he had zero say in the decision) and she had to prove herself first. That's not being an asshole in my book. It's actually to his credit that he wasn't an insta-Pearson fan. While I still wish there had been another episode or two to get to know Philip, I don't need a whole series or even season worth to decide that I think he's a much better fit for Kate. In fairness, she's in a much different place than she was when she and Toby met and they took 4-5 years after the divorce to marry, which is not rushing anything in the slightest. That will make for a much better foundation for a marriage and clearly, they are still together and seemingly happy more than 20 years later as are Toby and his wife. 

I liked seeing Toby and Philip at the bar together and having a conversation about what the future would hold. Philip agreeing to not yell around or at the kids, that was a tender moment for me, and showed what a great father Toby is. Toby teaching Philip about American football, knowing how important it was to Kate and Jack Sr. You're good people, Toby.

The proposal with an older Jack and Hailey and their absolutely adorable faces as they held up their signs was so sweet and heartfelt. It's clear the kids really like (possibly even love) Philip. I appreciate that the kids are front and center and very much a part of their parents' lives and that of their significant others (I'd love to see a future scene and the new Mrs. Damon). 

We see their engagement party (and as previously posted the thought that a second marriage isn't as special and therefore undeserving of a big to-do doesn't make sense to me in the slightest). And we see a pregnant Madison with Elijah at her side and sorry, Kevison fans, but I am thrilled that they have finally put the nail in that particular coffin. I don't even care if it's Kophie in the end (although my money is still on it), just so long as it isn't some faked, forced Kevison situation.

An older Rebecca initially forgetting Philip's name, reminding us, like nothing else can, of time marching on.

The scenes where we see Kate's words about their story coming true as we jump ahead to the New Big 3's 6th birthday. The moment of Toby arriving with the kids to drop them off, Philip setting the table, and him offering to have Toby join them and he does and I have no idea what came over me but that made me cry.

Then we see Toby meet his future wife and how adorable are they getting their flirt and meet cute on? I'm so happy for Toby as he deserves to find love and happiness.

We see a grown-up Jack with Toby, his wife, a very-much-alive Kate (phew!) and Philip. Jack is as happy to see them there as he was in that earlier scene as a toddler with the same "You're Both Here!" comment and I may not need a beach towel, but I need a tissue dammit.

We finally come back to Kate's wedding day and the phone call from Toby. Yes, I initially had a moment where I thought he was going to ask her to reconsider, but it's for Toby to tell her that he understands what she meant the day they divorced and she was right about their story. 

Katoby the lovers and married couple may be no more, but they are still Katoby, co-parents to their kids and their lives have been changed for the better accordingly. But what an incredible gift Toby gave to Kate with his call as she is about to embark on married life with Philip.

I went into this episode, thinking I would hate it, but I really did love it. More than I ever thought possible. 

Me too. Ditto to everything you said. 

[Scarlett45]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:30 PM, Crashcourse said:

When Kate asked Phillip what he saw in her, what I got from him was "well, since I had a blind, barren wife with a crooked nose, a morbidly obese woman is no big deal."  Not exactly romantic.

I don’t assume his wife was the barren one. He could’ve been the one with fertility issues and given he wasn’t committed to the idea of having kids he never pursued it. 

[Scarlett45]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:45 PM, LeisureTime said:

Not a fan of serial-dating Kevin. It just seems like such a step backward when everything prior had indicated moving forward.

Not everyone is meant to be partnered. Kevin is still very good looking, rich, and charming- I’m sure he isn’t longing for female companionship but that doesn’t mean he is suited for long term emotional commitment. He’s got two bio kids from a one night stand, he may have realized he didn’t want to settle down, he just didn’t want to feel lonely. 

[CrystalBlue]

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t assume his wife was the barren one. He could’ve been the one with fertility issues and given he wasn’t committed to the idea of having kids he never pursued it. 

Philip MeanJerk and First Wife did pursue it.  They went through three tries of IVF and she wanted to go for a fourth, but he'd had enough.  Plus it's expensive.  It's not free in the UK either.  Before couples even have one round of IVF, both partners are thorougly tested, so if Philip had a low or no sperm count or other issue, it would have been found before the first IVF attempt.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Philip MeanJerk and First Wife did pursue it.  They went through three tries of IVF and she wanted to go for a fourth, but he'd had enough.  Plus it's expensive.  It's not free in the UK either.  Before couples even have one round of IVF, both partners are thorougly tested, so if Philip had a low or no sperm count or other issue, it would have been found before the first IVF attempt.

I meant pursuing it after his first wife died, as a single man, or looking for another female partner to procreate with.
 

I’m saying there’s no evidence the IVF didn’t work because of issues with his wife. It could’ve been issues with him, or they just weren’t fertile together. 
 

His wife was the one that wanted to keep trying, he was fine being childfree after all of the expense and the emotional stress (which he explained in his monologue). Trust I get that!
 

I was just pointing out that fertility issues are not de facto because of the female partner, he might be the barren one (hence why they needed to try the IVF, conceiving from sex wasn’t likely for him no matter who the woman was)-not his former wife. 

[BTBAM310]

On 4/15/2022 at 6:16 AM, watcher1006 said:

This is one thing that has made my enthusiasm for this show fade over the last few seasons. I have grown weary of the constant time jumping, not just the flashbacks but also the flash-forwards. It can get so confusing that one doesn't know when some character is being shown at what point in time.

It's very confusing sometimes when they show the flashbacks - especially remembering what decade they're in - is it the 70s, 80s, 90s?

 

[watcher1006]

20 hours ago, BTBAM310 said:

It's very confusing sometimes when they show the flashbacks - especially remembering what decade they're in - is it the 70s, 80s, 90s?

 

The time jumping made perfect sense early in the show's run. As a general rule that holds for TV shows. It develops the characters of the show, allows us to know their backgrounds and "where they are coming from", and sets up context for what is happening in the present. But this show has used the mechanism constantly throughout from beginning to end to the point of overusing it (IMO). I've gotten confused at certain points in the narrative(s) and I have even started to ask whether the show isn't trying hard enough to write extended storylines in the present. Which shouldn't be the case given the rich suite of characters that the show possesses. Constantly cutting and pasting together vignettes from different decades - that's not how TV shows used to be written.

[millennium]

Clearly, it's Kate's world and the rest of us just live in it ... and only to disappoint her.

I have reviled Toby from the start but it would be disingenuous of me to deny that he has grown more than any other character, and that he is perhaps the only character who seems like a real person (vs. a Pearson).

Kate is a black hole sucking in all light and joy and laughter.   My lasting image of Kate will be her standing on the front lawn smirking at Toby from behind her two brothers in the previous episode.   She didn't give an inch to make that marriage work.   I hate that Toby begged her in the end.  I hate that he called her to say "I see it now" because it was like saying Kate was right about everything all along.  

However, Toby's "Sorry I'm not Jack Pearson" speech was perfect and long, long overdue.   Every last one of the Pearsons needs to have that speech shouted at them at least once a week.

WTF was with Rebecca's long gray wig?

[andidante]

I loved Toby's speech also!! He got on my nerves when he was first introduced, but then became one of my favorites. Not that that is saying much with this show, LOL

I am not sure why the didn't have Rebecca's hair a shorter length? It looked terrible!

Also Kate sucks!

Edited June 28, 2022 by andidante
Forgot something