S16.E07: Choosing Kids Over Kody

[LilyD]

3 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

But...as anyone in any kind of long term relationship, it changes through time.  Kody didn't want that change. He wants the same as it has always been. But kids grow up and challenge their parents ways, they move on with their own adult lives, and if you don't nurture the growing and changing relationships...they fall by the wayside. I find it fascinating that the man that wanted every child to automatically stay as one big family is the same man now demanding "over 21's" need to get out...BuuBYE!!

Well said! This is spot on. A relationship is dynamic. It changes as we grow older and progress through all stages of life. Kody indeed seems incapable of embracing those changes and seems stuck in the role of youthful super hero dad and husband.

And I hadn’t thought about keeping the family close for eternity vs evicting them when it suits you. Great assessment: You’re welcome to live in or near the huge palatial plyg palace (if ever built) if you adhere to Kody’s law. If not, you’ll be kicked out and shunned as customary in the Amish communities.

[Sasha888]

Agree, @Roslyn and @LilyD, Kody can't seem to change and grow in a relationship...just wanted to add, he cannot grow and change with the times, either. 

He had been stuck in this conversation with Janelle about her boys because he keeps insisting that they are over 18 and that's when his dad Winn gave him the boot. He won't consider that times are different now (housing is astronomical in the US right now) and that some of these factors might be different for his boys than they were for him.

Also, he doesn't seem to consider the possibility that maybe his dad didn't do the right thing. His father was also behind the times. I am near Kody's age, and while it may have been alright in decades past for a kid to be expected to leave home at 18 and get a job, by the time Kody and I were coming of age, you were going to have a hard time getting any decent job in the US without a college education. He has never gotten one - maybe he was disinterested in doing so and that's fine -  but it was common in the US at that time to offer at least some help, like a place to live, to a young adult child so they could get that education. The 90's weren't the 40's, a degree or some kind of technical school were important and it is even more so today. Winn was behind the times even then, and Kody uses that as his excuse to evict his kids in 2022.

It's also become more common to help young adults save up for a home after they start working. Maybe even more so than in the 90's when Kody was a very young adult.

We don't have to parent exactly the way our parents did. We can treat our kids better than we were treated. He could also consider that the mother in this case, Janelle, does not want to do things this way, and that perhaps she should have a say, too. It's very fortunate for Janelle that his name is not on her lease...he's been pretty clear that he would evict her boys from her home, where he is hardly ever present, without her consent if he was able.

He has no interest in listening to her rational arguments about WHY the boys need to stay for a bit longer, he just keeps beating his "this is how it was done to me!" drum. Get with the times, Kody.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Sasha888

[jackjill89]

18 hours ago, nosedive said:

An interesting theory.   Of course, we’re privy to only a glimpse of his life, but that won’t stop me from jumping in with my analysis 😉.  

Kody’s personality and behaviors to me seem to be less driven by a mental illness and more the result of having spent the past thirty-plus years operating in a patriarchal construct that endorses his role as absolute authority over his wives and children, a role reinforced by the acquiescence of the members of the family: a construct that demonstrates (in his mind) his hyper-masculinity.  But now the construct that has defined him as man-in-charge, potent-impregnator, super-stud, quasi-deity, and which has been indulged by his family for the past three decades, is crumbling, and all his blustering and hissy fits and stomping his foot can’t stop it.  

When his wives were compliant with all his wishes and whims, and his children were too young to exert agency over their own lives, they reflected his self-image back at him: god of his earthly kingdom to be worshipped and adored.  But who is reflecting that image back at him now?  Robyn and her spawn, maybe?  Certainly not his adult sons.  Certainly not Christine.  And while Janelle hasn’t yet jumped ship, she has the audacity to question his divine wisdom.  With their words and actions, they tell him he’s a failed leader, a paper tiger, an empty shirt.  The more they dare to challenge his authority and disobey his edicts, the more desperate he becomes to reestablish that image of himself.  

So he tightens his grip in an attempt to regain control, no matter what he has to do to accomplish it, including insults and threats and even banishing the recalcitrant sons from the kingdom.  The more his family turns away from him, the more blurred that image becomes and the more he lets loose his fury on them.  If he’s not the exalted lord over his earthly kingdom, who is he?  

Kody is not the leader he fancies himself to be because leaders inspire.  Leaders make personal sacrifices for the good of others.  Leaders bring out the best in the people they lead.  

Thirty-plus years ago, perhaps Kody was a decent fellow.  Perhaps he was insecure about his masculinity?  Perhaps he felt he needed to prove his worth to his father?  Perhaps he actually did believe in The Principle?  But today he is unkind and callous towards the people whom he has pledged to love and cherish for eternity.  What he’s doing is cruel and he knows it.  

I know and love several people with mental illnesses.  They have their challenges, but not one of them is deliberately cruel.  

I think your analysis is spot on. 

As I've mentioned, I have only seen a few of the most recent episodes and then went back and watched a few of the first. Desperation is what I see. The tighter he is hanging on, the more things are getting out of his grasp.

It seems to me that bringing in Robyn and then the families living apart is what created the divide that's been getting bigger year by year. Covid is magnifying the fact that he's lost his grip on most of the family and they care more about each other than him. 

[notnowimbusy]

At the Thanksgiving dinner, Kody looks like a dictator in exile, and he's yammering about keeping track of who is loyal to him.   Hey look around the table Kody - those are the ONLY people loyal - or willing to put up with you.    Sad, pathetic, and it must be a rude awakening for somebody who thinks so highly of  himself.  

[MsMalin]

You can't demand love or loyalty. You have to earn it.

Kody just can't understand the concept of saving and buying what you can afford. He believes in  just going in half cocked, buying above his means and then going bankrupt.  His kids are living by the rule "I don't want to end up like my father so I will learn by NOT following his example". Kind of like an alcoholic whose kids don't touch liquor because they don't want to turn out that way.

[HighlandWarriorGrl]

23 hours ago, nosedive said:

But now the construct that has defined him as man-in-charge, potent-impregnator, super-stud, quasi-deity, and which has been indulged by his family for the past three decades, is crumbling, and all his blustering and hissy fits and stomping his foot can’t stop it.  

Am I recalling correctly that there was an episode where Kootie meets up with some former high school classmates during a visit home and when interviewed about what they thought of his alternative life style, they said they always thought he was gay?  I remember thinking that if Kootie ever got wind of any of those rumors while in school, it could have had a hand in pointing him to this life style.  In other words, he thought this would prove his masculinity?  Just a theory . . .

[deirdra]

3 hours ago, HighlandWarriorGrl said:

Am I recalling correctly that there was an episode where Kootie meets up with some former high school classmates during a visit home and when interviewed about what they thought of his alternative life style, they said they always thought he was gay?  I remember thinking that if Kootie ever got wind of any of those rumors while in school, it could have had a hand in pointing him to this life style.  In other words, he thought this would prove his masculinity?  Just a theory . . .

I've had the same theory since that episode first aired.  A mere one wife and one kid would not be enough to impress his former classmates so he went whole hog with 4 wives and 15 bio-children to try to prove he's a manly man.

When Kootie's father "kicked him out" at 18, he went on a mission for 2 years. Presumably the church paid for or arranged for a part-time job to cover things like travel, room and board. Not the same as fending for yourself in an overpriced college town during Covid.

Edited January 7, 2022 by deirdra

[Adiba]

7 hours ago, deirdra said:

I've had the same theory since that episode first aired.  A mere one wife and one kid would not be enough to impress his former classmates so he went whole hog with 4 wives and 15 bio-children to try to prove he's a manly man.

When Kootie's father "kicked him out" at 18, he went on a mission for 2 years. Presumably the church paid for or arranged for a part-time job to cover things like travel, room and board. Not the same as fending for yourself in an overpriced college town during Covid.

I would've asked Kody--"who paid for your mission expenses?" At that time, Kody was LDS, wasn't he? AFAIK, in the LDS church they do not pay for missions.

Kody wanting to kick his sons out in a pandemic isn't the same thing as a mission that one chooses to do, either. During the initial months of the pandemic and even now, all rentals were hard to come by, much less affordable ones.

I would also have asked Kody, "If you didn't have Robyn as a wife, where would you be quarantining?" We know not with Meri, and likely not Christine--with Janelle, perhaps? He would have had to come to some sort of compromise or get his own place and be alone for months on end--which I doubt he would do.

[Pooky]

19 hours ago, Julez said:

Thank you 👋🏼

Yes I have read many of them😀

’Dark Queen’, so apt.

I sometimes wonder if I should have a sneaky admiration for the woman who has clambered over & thru them all like an unstoppable weed to get the man🤮,palatial home and hired help, all while sobbing with the perma frown of concern, soo sincere...but then I think nah, she is conniving shrew.

She is the Dark Queen, you guys are Snow White, or a crucifix, or a garlic garland 😂. Her external appearance eaten up and looking more and more like her miserable core,she once had shiny eyes and a bit of a spring in her step...now she resembles a toad 

She is looking very much like her Mother. 🤣

[laurakaye]

11 hours ago, HighlandWarriorGrl said:

Am I recalling correctly that there was an episode where Kootie meets up with some former high school classmates during a visit home and when interviewed about what they thought of his alternative life style, they said they always thought he was gay?  I remember thinking that if Kootie ever got wind of any of those rumors while in school, it could have had a hand in pointing him to this life style.  In other words, he thought this would prove his masculinity?  Just a theory . . .

I am pretty sure he was aware of what his classmates thought - I seem to remember he himself stating that he was a bit "flamboyant" (his word) and I recall a flashback picture of him in a play or on stage singing (I might be losing my mind misremembering).  So for him, he goes on a mission trip and comes home to find that his parents have embraced polygamy and maybe he thought - this is perfect for me.  I've got the excuse that my parents are living this lifestyle, and it would put those rumors to rest once and for all (although I'm not sure any of his former friends changed their minds about him).

[Roslyn]

2 hours ago, Adiba said:

I would've asked Kody--"who paid for your mission expenses?" At that time, Kody was LDS, wasn't he? AFAIK, in the LDS church they do not pay for missions.

According to my reading in the exmormon subreddit, back in Kody's day the church/ward paid for mission expenses.  These days the church is far more interested in adding numbers beyond the billions to their holdings, so parents have to foot the bill.

I suspect that his interest in a mission skyrocketed after being given the boot by Winn.

There was also a (take it with a grain of salt) comment on reddit that someone had talked with a person or persons who were on missions in the same time/place as Kody and that he talked about polygamy while on his mission being the "true" form of Mormonism. He has always made it seem as tho his parents did the conversion while he was gone, but there was one mention a long time ago about his mother being the one who first thought "the Principle" was worth exploring, and he mentions he was 14 years old.  So it is possible that polygamy was discussed prior to his mission and their conversion wasn't as big a shock when he returned as he usually "spins" the story.

[LuvMyShows]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:19 PM, Adeejay said:

I am so glad that Janelle told Kody to eff off.

I don't want to be buzz kill, but we actually don't know that she said that...and given how reality shows distort reality, she could easily have said something much more tame, like, "buzz off", and they bleeped it out to create the impression that she said "eff off", cause they know many viewers would eat it up.  Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think it has to be that, because I do not see Kodouche reacting as calmly as he did, if she had actually cursed him out with that word in particular, especially in front of all the other wives.

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 1/4/2022 at 11:56 AM, lamadeleine said:

In a situation like this, I think it's kind of shitty and very telling that Kody makes Janelle and Christine do all the heavy lifting in terms of communicating with their kids regarding the rules (and the ladies are willing participants, so that's on them). I would have told him to get out his precious phone, call the kids himself, arrange a socially distanced outdoor meeting, etc. and make his case as opposed to sending his edicts through messengers. He's so distanced and so removed from their lives; no discussion of loving and missing any of them...

And absolutely no leadership what.so.ever.  All those things you mentioned should have been done, and when it was clear that covid was here for the long haul, he should have drawn up a schedule for socially distanced outdoor get-togethers, and even socially distanced masked indoor get-togethers, that fairly divided time between each household with children.  The rules for get-togethers that are more intimate, and don't need masks or social distancing, should have been published at that time as well.  He has the nerve to slam the wives and kids for not following his ad hoc, late-to-the-table guidance, with no eye whatsoever toward his own complete and total lack of leadership.

[Adiba]

21 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I don't want to be buzz kill, but we actually don't know that she said that...and given how reality shows distort reality, she could easily have said something much more tame, like, "buzz off", and they bleeped it out to create the impression that she said "eff off", cause they know many viewers would eat it up.  Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think it has to be that, because I do not see Kodouche reacting as calmly as he did, if she had actually cursed him out with that word in particular, especially in front of all the other wives.

I don’t know, I think she said it, albeit very low and to herself. She had a mic on, so we the viewers heard it, and perhaps post-production amplified it. So maybe the others didn’t quite hear what she said in that moment. Or maybe they just sat in stunned silence after she said it.

At any rate, I choose to go with she said it— because Kody deserved that and much, much more.

[LilyD]

17 hours ago, HighlandWarriorGrl said:

Am I recalling correctly that there was an episode where Kootie meets up with some former high school classmates during a visit home and when interviewed about what they thought of his alternative life style, they said they always thought he was gay?  I remember thinking that if Kootie ever got wind of any of those rumors while in school, it could have had a hand in pointing him to this life style.  In other words, he thought this would prove his masculinity?  Just a theory . . .

Yes that’s correct and what also amused me was Kody’ surprise and annoyance at his former classmates’ reaction. Not only did they tell Kody that they thought he was gay, but they also strongly disapproved of his lifestyle. So far for the admiration he was hoping for!

[Sasha888]

1 hour ago, Adiba said:

I don’t know, I think she said it, albeit very low and to herself. She had a mic on, so we the viewers heard it, and perhaps post-production amplified it. So maybe the others didn’t quite hear what she said in that moment. Or maybe they just sat in stunned silence after she said it.

Agree. Also, when you bleep something, you can usually still hear a bit of the ending of the bleeped word, because it bleeds into the next word a bit.

To me it sounded like a "k" sound. I didn't hear BLEEP zoff, I heard BLEEP koff, so to speak (WOW does that look weird typed out!)

I was cynical at first, when it was just a clip shown as a teaser all week leading up to the show, but after seeing the whole scene and taking that remark in context...she was getting pretty mad...mad enough to walk off while everyone else was still sitting there. I think she told him to f*** off.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

[notnowimbusy]

Robyn was sure that Kody wouldn't be away.   Janelle, or Christine could follow all those rules, and he still was only going to do a drive-by.  No way would he isolate with another wife for two weeks before returning back to Robyn's house.  She made it very clear that her two youngest could never go that long without seeing Kody.  She had no intention of letting him be away (they aren't following the rules, their kids don't follow the rules, etc), or allowing a big family indoor get-together.   She was put in a tough spot with Meri.  Meri was alone, isolating, so Robyn had to allow her over.   And she felt safe knowing Kody had no desire to stay at Meri's.    She worked out every angle, including being the long suffering wife who was being obedient and "respecting" Kody.     Poor Robyn that Brown family scapegoat! HAHAHAHAHA!

[deirdra]

9 hours ago, Roslyn said:

there was one mention a long time ago about his mother being the one who first thought "the Principle" was worth exploring, and he mentions he was 14 years old.  

I wonder if Winn was as annoying and exhausting to live with as Kootie, which made sharing the load with a couple of sister wives look like an option to consider.

Edited January 8, 2022 by deirdra

[Joan of Argh]

3 hours ago, notnowimbusy said:

Robyn was sure that Kody wouldn't be away.   Janelle, or Christine could follow all those rules, and he still was only going to do a drive-by.  No way would he isolate with another wife for two weeks before returning back to Robyn's house.  She made it very clear that her two youngest could never go that long without seeing Kody.  She had no intention of letting him be away (they aren't following the rules, their kids don't follow the rules, etc), or allowing a big family indoor get-together.   She was put in a tough spot with Meri.  Meri was alone, isolating, so Robyn had to allow her over.   And she felt safe knowing Kody had no desire to stay at Meri's.    She worked out every angle, including being the long suffering wife who was being obedient and "respecting" Kody.     Poor Robyn that Brown family scapegoat! HAHAHAHAHA!

Exactly, she’s such a conniving bitch and now she’s dropped hints of the next facet of her plan…. IIRC she insinuated that her children are starting to feel slighted and rejected by the others not putting forth the effort to do what’s necessary to get together…. So it only makes sense that Robyns spawn will lose affection for them and not want to see them anymore 🙄

Nothing is ever Robyns fault… she’s always the victim… she’s sitting in a mansion with Kody at her beck and call, she has a freaking nanny but somehow she’s the one who’s suffering!

if I have to watch her pinch the bridge of her nose between her thumb and index finger as she looks down and pretend cries I might have to throw a chair at my TV… ugh! 🤬

[LilyD]

5 hours ago, deirdra said:

I wonder if Winn was as annoying and exhausting to live with as Kootie, which made sharing the load with a couple of sister wives look like an option to consider.

Men often take (at least partly) after their father, so it may be a possibility. At least the wives each had their own house on a big ranch where they didn't have to bump into each other all the time, so the wives probably had enough chances to recover from his exhausting presence.

[WhatAmIWatching]

On 1/7/2022 at 8:56 PM, deirdra said:

I wonder if Winn was as annoying and exhausting to live with as Kootie, which made sharing the load with a couple of sister wives look like an option to consider.

My husband is recovering from hip surgery and, boy howdy, is he annoying and exhausting! Not his fault, but he's antsy and bored, and limited on what he can physically do, so he keeps asking me to do all manner of projects for him. That would be fine, but he's also super picky on how to do the things and hovers. Aaagh!
  I could definitely use some sister wives for a few months. 😆 I don't know how the Brown wives put up with Kody and his whims and bs all these years. I would have been Meri and alienated everyone for that sweet, sweet peace.

Edited January 9, 2022 by WhatAmIWatching

[xwordfanatik]

Mr. X had a knee replaced several years ago, and I know what you mean.

We didn't see Winn very much on the show, but to me, he had a mean look to him.  Now Kootie has stopped pretending for the camera.  He's a nasty pea-brain and it shows.

[HighlandWarriorGrl]

14 hours ago, deirdra said:

I wonder if Winn was as annoying and exhausting to live with as Kootie, which made sharing the load with a couple of sister wives look like an option to consider.

Well, I look at it this way, Winn is dead and the wives still like each other.  So I have to think that he at least was probably more fair with them and maybe lived “the principle” better than Kootie.  If Kootie were to die right now (and I’m not wishing him ill - as much as I hate him) those four women would run in four different directions.

[Madding crowd]

As much as I despise Kody I have to say that my husband works at a hospital and during the entire first year of COVID, they only allowed one parent to come to the hospital and it could not be swapped. A few months ago they started letting both parents in and now have gone back to one. Kody could have gone to NJ and hung around Christine’s sisters house but that may have been more trouble than help. 
Also, Kody is not the only one who wants the kids out at 18. Christine has stated on many occasions that her kids are out the door at age 18 no matter what the circumstances. I guess my point is they are all jerks even Christine.

[Sandy W]

23 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

As much as I despise Kody I have to say that my husband works at a hospital and during the entire first year of COVID, they only allowed one parent to come to the hospital and it could not be swapped. A few months ago they started letting both parents in and now have gone back to one. Kody could have gone to NJ and hung around Christine’s sisters house but that may have been more trouble than help. 
Also, Kody is not the only one who wants the kids out at 18. Christine has stated on many occasions that her kids are out the door at age 18 no matter what the circumstances. I guess my point is they are all jerks even Christine.

I'm pretty sure that it would not have been acceptable to Christine, but Kody could have least offered to be the one to accompany Ysabel for her surgery.  That way Christine would not have had the added expense of taking Gwen and Truely along on the trip.  Or, he could have offered to stay in Christine's home to care for the other 2 girls. Probably neither suggestion would have been OK with Christine, but at least he would have shown that he was willing to participate.  He didn't even offer to move in to Christine's home to lend a hand on their return.  Some father.

I have heard Christine say that once one of the kids left home there is no coming back (which kind of horrified me), but I hadn't heard her say 18 and out

[Madding crowd]

Yes, he could have offered some type of assistance and maybe he did but we didn’t see it. Christine did say 18 and out for her kids. I would assume she means after they graduate high school. I could never kick my son out especially during college so I dislike Christine for this reason.

[Roslyn]

15 hours ago, deirdra said:

I wonder if Winn was as annoying and exhausting to live with as Kootie, which made sharing the load with a couple of sister wives look like an option to consider.

 

1 hour ago, HighlandWarriorGrl said:

Well, I look at it this way, Winn is dead and the wives still like each other.  So I have to think that he at least was probably more fair with them and maybe lived “the principle” better than Kootie.  If Kootie were to die right now (and I’m not wishing him ill - as much as I hate him) those four women would run in four different directions.

My best guess is that Winn was your basic old school farm man. He made the decisions, he gave the orders and men and women had separate and distinct roles to play and that was that. You follow orders and did not question them. The children were most likely treated as a pack and all of them had to "earn their keep" the same as every animal on the farm. Kody was in the middle of the pack and wanted individual attention and to NOT have much to do with the farm (ranch).

Based on the tidbit that Winn wanted Janelle to be married off to a different son and Janelle has spoken that she and Winn used to get into heated disagreements that ended "You go to hell" and "I'll see you there", I am sure he was that pig headed type of "women need to be in their place" man.

Here and there through the show you do get a strong impression that Kody has real "Daddy issues"

[LilyD]

Re Christine; I guess it's one thing to say out at 18 and no coming back but a whole other to actually stick to it. She may encourage them to spread their wings but I highly doubt she'd evict them like Kody tried to do with Gabe and Garrison. As for no coming back; I've heard a lot of parents saying this, but in the end very few will turn their backs on their kids if a child is at risk of becoming homeless. So, I'm giving Christine the benefit of the doubt here. 

As for Kody not being allowed into the hospital (1 parent policy because of Covid) I fully agree with what was said above. He could (and should!!) have offered to come. Or he could have been there to help when Ysabel came home. He did neither. He did worse; he loudly put the needs of Robyn's kids before Ysabel's. 

[Roslyn]

3 minutes ago, LilyD said:

Re Christine; I guess it's one thing to say out at 18 and no coming back but a whole other to actually stick to it. She may encourage them to spread their wings but I highly doubt she'd evict them like Kody tried to do with Gabe and Garrison. As for no coming back; I've heard a lot of parents saying this, but in the end very few will turn their backs on their kids if a child is at risk of becoming homeless. So, I'm giving Christine the benefit of the doubt here.

She has "put her money where her mouth is" on camera. When Mykelti dropped out of school and gave up the shared apartment with Aspyn, Christine said that Aspyn was moving in with Robyn because they butted heads over the raising of the kids. Yet since Mykelti dropped out of school (Aspyn stayed enrolled), she wasn't allowed to move back home. They weren't real clear but they did mention that Mykelti wanted to move to Seattle and they said no because they wouldn't be able to afford to move here there and back. So she ended up being handed off to the pawn shop guy and living in one of his apartments too. That way he could keep an eye on her.

She showed them in the end by bringing Tony home and then trying to out speed-marry Maddie.

While it isn't on the show, Gwen has also moved out within her first year of school without any real exit storyline.

[Rabbit Hutch]

5 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

Mr. X had a knee replaced several years ago, and I know what you mean.

We didn't see Winn very much on the show, but to me, he had a mean look to him.  Now Kootie has stopped pretending for the camera.  He's a nasty pea-brain and it shows.

Agreed.  I never got good vibes from Winn.  Felt like he demanded a lot but didn't give as much back in return.  I would've farmed him out to as many as would take him.  👀

[deirdra]

Gwen stayed until she was 19, but she probably needed to save up to pay rent.

[LilyD]

5 hours ago, Roslyn said:

Christine said that Aspyn was moving in with Robyn because they butted heads over the raising of the kids. Yet since Mykelti dropped out of school (Aspyn stayed enrolled), she wasn't allowed to move back home.

I remember this part and my surprise at Robyn taking in somebody else's kid. But like with so many storylines in SW, they're introduced and then they bleed to death. I'm trying to remember if there ever was a follow up. So if you ask me, it was just for the show. The same with Meri taking in two of the girls (can't remember which two) She vacated the room and decorated it to make them feel welcome and that was it...

You're right about Mykelti but I always felt that vibe that she didn't want to move back. From a fairly early age, she tried to cut ties and make her own choices like that fashion design thing and then that special school for smart kids. They weren't always happy about her choices. And St George really felt like a compromise. You're right at that.

[Not Buyin It]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:30 PM, Desert Rat said:

Maybe, but that still doesn't answer the question. How is it even possible to effectively disinfect paper without destroying the paper? Bleach and boiling water in the quantity needed to disinfect would ruin paper. The only think I can think of is maybe a UV light. I'm afraid a heat lamp would burn the paper. So what are people like Kody who claim to regularly perform this ritual actually doing?

What are they actually doing? In Kody's case, lying.

I'm not buying that he is "sacrificing" himself, living SUCH a sterile life for the sake of his family.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

On 1/7/2022 at 8:59 PM, Joan of Argh said:

Exactly, she’s such a conniving bitch and now she’s dropped hints of the next facet of her plan…. IIRC she insinuated that her children are starting to feel slighted and rejected by the others not putting forth the effort to do what’s necessary to get together…. So it only makes sense that Robyns spawn will lose affection for them and not want to see them anymore 🙄

Nothing is ever Robyns fault… she’s always the victim… she’s sitting in a mansion with Kody at her beck and call, she has a freaking nanny but somehow she’s the one who’s suffering!

if I have to watch her pinch the bridge of her nose between her thumb and index finger as she looks down and pretend cries I might have to throw a chair at my TV… ugh! 🤬

Hopefully it was all staged for the show.  Young adults and older teens need to realize, real life is not always going to be easy.  Just because they think everyone should stop and follow these rules doesn't mean everyone can.  Robyn should have tempered that with, ya'll have dad and I, the nanny and her husband here to help out.  The other moms don't have anyone to help them do all this stuff, so they have to leave the house and so do their grown kids who have to work and go to school.  Basically with our portion of the BFE money and what ever dad is bringing in goes to us.  So the other wives have to work outside the home and so do their kids to have to pay for everything.  She should have said, be grateful we don't have to do that.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

I think Christines get out when you finish high school was a way to have a little more money to spend on the kids she was still raising.  Plus teaching them this is real life, the quicker you learn how to do it, the better off you will be.  Which is something Robyn is not doing for hers.

Then again, no one should be kicking out grown kids during a pandemic as long as they are helping out around the house.

My mom recently had a heart valve replacement.  The hospital only allowed two visitors and they had to be the same two people.  They also only allowed visitors during visiting hours which is 8-7.  Which this hospital has always done.  

[LilyD]

On 1/8/2022 at 3:59 AM, Joan of Argh said:

IIRC she insinuated that her children are starting to feel slighted and rejected by the others not putting forth the effort to do what’s necessary to get together…. So it only makes sense that Robyns spawn will lose affection for them and not want to see them anymore 🙄

I wonder whether Robyn realizes that her attempt to pull her kids over to her side is actively damaging their self-esteem… She obviously doesn’t want her kids to question her rules and true intent, so she puts the blame on the other Browns.

But her insinuation about the Browns not wanting to see them, will make them (Aurora, Breanna and Dayton) question their worth, self-esteem and confidence. (Are we really not worth it? Do  they really not like us?)  And I’m pretty sure the eldest three have been uncertain about their place within the family as of day 1. That Robyn, is a high price to pay. I hope you realize that. You should have comforted them that it wasn’t about them in the first place.
But you failed them…again.

[Caseysgirl]

I have a theory about this show. Wr all know it’s been losing steam over the years and some of us stopped watching.  I suspect there is a new production team that realize that most of us “ hate watch” Kody and everyone who does watch had one or more wife that they are rooting for.  Why not finally go all the way and make Kody ( and his pet,Robyn) the ultimate villains. 8 pages of comments on this thread as well as podcasters sounding excited about this show again makes me think that whoever devised this strategy knew what we wanted. Not that lovey dovey “ I love the polygamist life”but what we’ve all thought - it’s a crappy life for a woman!

[answerphone]

Kody, who really was pushing  for the Big House, said he “never wants to see his wives sharing a kitchen.”  LOLOLOL

The wives have certain broken down into their 2 teams of two. 

[the-grey-lady]

Kody "Crunchy Ringlets" Brown can fuck right off. 

"I've had higher standards all life and no one can meet them"? 

You let your daughter writhe in agony without the comfort of her father because you couldn't be bothered to be with her!

Are those your "high standards"? Those are some subterranean standards, you mean-spirited, condescending asshat.

I can't be the only person wondering of Kody's COVID rules are a convenient excuse to exert control over the fambly he feels is openly defying him.

And I thought Janelle's kids were selfish and careless about COVID prevention, but wow, do they have their dad's number.

Edited January 11, 2022 by the-grey-lady

[the-grey-lady]

On 1/2/2022 at 7:22 AM, NoWhammies said:

You can't build a functional family around a dysfunctional, narcissistic, unintelligent, angry, irresponsible twit. 

A dysfunctional, narcissistic, unintelligent, angry, irresponsible twit who wants to "lead" his family without actually doing anything.

[sharkerbaby]

On 1/9/2022 at 10:14 PM, answerphone said:

Kody, who really was pushing  for the Big House, said he “never wants to see his wives sharing a kitchen.”  LOLOLOL

The wives have certain broken down into their 2 teams of two. 

They wouldn't have been sharing a kitchen even then.  They each had their own wing equipped with a full kitchen.  The big central kitchen was intended primarily for big family gatherings.  That being said, I still think he's a hypocritical ass that shows extreme favoritism and intolerance for the rest of the family.

Given where things are today, I wonder if all this strife is the real reason Christine didn't want to pursue the single home with four wings.  She may have already been questioning whether she was going to stay in the family.   If that wasn't the case then I actually wonder if the big family home wouldn't have served to bring them back into some sort of single family unit.  It seems whenever there is distance between their homes there is tension.   Now not only is there the geographic distance between the homes there is also government recommended barriers as well as Kody's added over the top restrictions.

[Sandy W]

3 hours ago, sharkerbaby said:

They wouldn't have been sharing a kitchen even then.  They each had their own wing equipped with a full kitchen.  The big central kitchen was intended primarily for big family gatherings.  That being said, I still think he's a hypocritical ass that shows extreme favoritism and intolerance for the rest of the family.

Given where things are today, I wonder if all this strife is the real reason Christine didn't want to pursue the single home with four wings.  She may have already been questioning whether she was going to stay in the family.   If that wasn't the case then I actually wonder if the big family home wouldn't have served to bring them back into some sort of single family unit.  It seems whenever there is distance between their homes there is tension.   Now not only is there the geographic distance between the homes there is also government recommended barriers as well as Kody's added over the top restrictions.

I'm pretty sure that the concept of one big house was purely for storyline.  Zoning restrictions would never have permitted that type of structure on that particular lot(s).

Christine's objections were invalid, she said something like she didn't want to see Kody coming and going with another wife.  Unless she was standing at the open door to the central hallway or watching the driveway through a window, Kody's activities would be no more visible than they were in the cul-de-sac.

On a properly zoned lot, the one big house may have been a workable plan and far less expensive to construct and service than 4 individual houses.  Pre-Covid, it may also have served to unify the kids with Kody's unit serving as a neutral place where they could gather, (who would be responsible for housekeeping in that area was never explained and I doubt it would be Kody).

As you say though, Christine may already have had thoughts of leaving brewing in the back of her mind and harped on the privacy issue as a straw dog.

[LilyD]

18 hours ago, Sandy W said:

I'm pretty sure that the concept of one big house was purely for storyline.  Zoning restrictions would never have permitted that type of structure on that particular lot(s).

The  lot itself isn't that small.  I'm sure that with the help of a decent architect, they would have been able to build one bigger house that could have worked for all of them. Just not the huge hotel-style palace or apartment building that had penthouses to all four wives and offered room to his entire brood. That was downright ridiculous. 

Christine...we talked about this a lot. She had been fully conditioned to lead this lifestyle. The move to Vegas taught her to be independent and showed her the perks of her own (big) home instead of a basement apartment that was too small to house 6 kids. Why would she want to go back to a small apartment (with being assigned the one that nobody wanted) if she can have a house of her own? I wouldn't do that either. I can see why she voted down 1 big house and preferred the 4 separate houses.

[Sandy W]

1 hour ago, LilyD said:

The  lot itself isn't that small.  I'm sure that with the help of a decent architect, they would have been able to build one bigger house that could have worked for all of them. Just not the huge hotel-style palace or apartment building that had penthouses to all four wives and offered room to his entire brood. That was downright ridiculous. 

Christine...we talked about this a lot. She had been fully conditioned to lead this lifestyle. The move to Vegas taught her to be independent and showed her the perks of her own (big) home instead of a basement apartment that was too small to house 6 kids. Why would she want to go back to a small apartment (with being assigned the one that nobody wanted) if she can have a house of her own? I wouldn't do that either. I can see why she voted down 1 big house and preferred the 4 separate houses.

I see your point about Christine and if autonomy was the issue, she didn't express herself effectively.  I recall when building the LV houses, she had definite ideas about how the facade of the building and landscaping should look, she would have lost those choices with the one big structure as well as clearly defined property lines of her own.  If the possibility of eventually leaving the family was on her mind, having a house of her own to sell would make it easier to extract her equity, plus there would be the issue of inheritance.  How could she leave her share of the one big structure to her kids, none of the adult kids would want to live there and buy the other kids out and and selling her unit on the open market would not be feasible.  Christine's protest was rooted in the emotional privacy issue rather than the practicality of the proposal.

As far as the possibility of building a structure with multiple kitchens (as per Kody, that is a requirement) on that particular piece of land is where Kody's concept fell apart.  The size of the lot would not be the issue but the established zoning would be.  When a developer buys a tract of land, before can sell individual lots, he submits his plans through multiple layers of government for approval.  His proposal would have to indicate how he intended to market the lots,  ie:- single family residential, multi family residential, commercial, industrial, etc.  The community seems to be composed of single family dwellings, so for Kody to change the zoning on that/those lots to suit his purpose would require him to make application through the same government levels as the developer originally did.  Plus at this point, input from the existing community would be called for and considered. The meetings and studies would take years to process. To the same issues are Kody's plans to now re-subdivide the lots from 4 to 5.  It doesn't work that way and an appointment with a lawyer specializing in real estate law could have opened his eyes to realities.  Kody doesn't have the patience or perseverance required to take these steps.

 

[the-grey-lady]

I know I shouldn't waste any headspace on this twit, but...

Kody wants to lead his family in name only. He wants to hand down edicts from on high and be obeyed but not take any responsibility for those decisions. He loves to wriggle out of any fault and refuse to admit when he's made a mistake, but he does want the wives to trust him time and time again, even though he's proven he's a clueless dolt.

Remember his Powerpoint presentation about moving to Flagstaff and how they were going to make so much money selling the Vegas houses? Then they sat on the market forever, and all of a sudden Kody was dragged to Flagstaff against his will and broke as a result? 

Jackwagon, the whole move was your idea!

Edited January 12, 2022 by the-grey-lady

[SongbirdHollow]

5 hours ago, LilyD said:

The  lot itself isn't that small.  I'm sure that with the help of a decent architect, they would have been able to build one bigger house that could have worked for all of them. Just not the huge hotel-style palace or apartment building that had penthouses to all four wives and offered room to his entire brood. That was downright ridiculous. 

Christine...we talked about this a lot. She had been fully conditioned to lead this lifestyle. The move to Vegas taught her to be independent and showed her the perks of her own (big) home instead of a basement apartment that was too small to house 6 kids. Why would she want to go back to a small apartment (with being assigned the one that nobody wanted) if she can have a house of her own? I wouldn't do that either. I can see why she voted down 1 big house and preferred the 4 separate houses.

I think a commune type place could have worked well. The wives all get a cabin/ranch with 3 bedrooms and they build a common lodge with a large kitchen and gathering area with a bedroom for Kody. Like Girl Scout camp! It would also be easy to rent out for retreats after all his wives leave him. 

[GeorgiaRai]

23 minutes ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I think a commune type place could have worked well. The wives all get a cabin/ranch with 3 bedrooms and they build a common lodge with a large kitchen and gathering area with a bedroom for Kody. Like Girl Scout camp! It would also be easy to rent out for retreats after all his wives leave him. 

Love this idea.  Kody stays in his own separate lodge area, and each wife can decide when (or IF) she wants to pay him an occasional visit.

[HighlandWarriorGrl]

Just now, GeorgiaRai said:

Love this idea.  Kody stays in his own separate lodge area, and each wife can decide when (or IF) she wants to pay him an occasional visit.

We all know that poor Meri would be sleeping on that doorstep . . . But never gaining admittance.  Sobyn would step right over (or on) her every day as she came and went!

[Roslyn]

7 hours ago, LilyD said:

The  lot itself isn't that small.  I'm sure that with the help of a decent architect, they would have been able to build one bigger house that could have worked for all of them. Just not the huge hotel-style palace or apartment building that had penthouses to all four wives and offered room to his entire brood. That was downright ridiculous. 

Christine...we talked about this a lot. She had been fully conditioned to lead this lifestyle. The move to Vegas taught her to be independent and showed her the perks of her own (big) home instead of a basement apartment that was too small to house 6 kids. Why would she want to go back to a small apartment (with being assigned the one that nobody wanted) if she can have a house of her own? I wouldn't do that either. I can see why she voted down 1 big house and preferred the 4 separate houses.

But the lot...isn't one lot. It's four separate parcels that are already with their own registered boundary lines. Kody only briefly mentioned that before they can redraw any boundaries with in the total 14 acres they have to pay off the loan (2 were financed, 2 purchased outright).

I am sittin' here on the edge of my seat with all the ducks that have to be lined up to actually build on raw land. My husband saw the segment where Kody grabbed Sol by the neck to try to force him to be excited about the cistern on a truck. He was shocked when Kody forced him down into the freshly dug hole. He wanted to know if the digger knew they were going to be doing that or not. In the real world the contractor and operator could have lost their licenses for not having that hole shored up and fenced off. It's one of the most dangerous things on a construction site.

[Adiba]

1 hour ago, Roslyn said:

But the lot...isn't one lot. It's four separate parcels that are already with their own registered boundary lines. Kody only briefly mentioned that before they can redraw any boundaries with in the total 14 acres they have to pay off the loan (2 were financed, 2 purchased outright).

I am sittin' here on the edge of my seat with all the ducks that have to be lined up to actually build on raw land. My husband saw the segment where Kody grabbed Sol by the neck to try to force him to be excited about the cistern on a truck. He was shocked when Kody forced him down into the freshly dug hole. He wanted to know if the digger knew they were going to be doing that or not. In the real world the contractor and operator could have lost their licenses for not having that hole shored up and fenced off. It's one of the most dangerous things on a construction site.

I agree about the hole—insurance-wise that is a huge liability so I’m surprised that they were allowed to film there. It does take much soil or sand to cause an engulfment situation. If an insurance underwriter saw a kid playing inside that hole, the landowner’s premiums would skyrocket, imo.
Many people are under the assumption that if you buy land, you can do almost whatever you want with it— not necessarily.