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S01.E05: Tragically Hip


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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

as awkward a way as possible, pausing the show to give us long lectures about various social issues and adding in all of these new characters who clearly exist just to address these criticisms of the lack of diversity, instead of just adding in a more diverse supporting cast without the endless virtue signaling. They have to yell "see! we're cool! we're woke! we get it!" despite the fact that they very clearly do not get it. 

I don't recall during this series where the characters have paused to lecture us about social issues.  I don't care for Che or their behavior, but I think Seema, Karen and Lisa feel very well integrated into the storylines.  I find the Rock storyline interesting, and has the potential to give Charlotte more dimension and something real to do (as opposed to the last movie with the dumb nanny storyline).      

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On 12/30/2021 at 9:24 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

Why wouldn't insurance pay for one particular PT person but would pay for the less attractive one?

I was wondering the same thing at first, but then I figured it was possible that one was in-network and the other wasn't. The covered one might have been under the same affiliation as the hospital/facility, while the noncovered one might have been a subcontractor (or whatever the equivalent is in medical terms) who was paying to use the space. However, in my experience with the extremely convoluted mess that is the US healthcare and insurance system, the onus is usually on the patient to be on top of knowing their coverage situation. I wouldn't expect a receptionist/admin to so readily have that info on hand and be so proactively communicative, or to claim it was a "mistake" on their part. Usually the patient has to press the staff to look into it, since the hospitals couldn't care less if it's the patient or insurance being billed, as long as they get paid.

I agree with previous posters stating that using a man's relative physical unattractiveness as the punchline for a joke implying that he is less worthy, is crude, mean-spirited, and in bad taste.

Edited by Roccos Brother
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15 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't recall during this series where the characters have paused to lecture us about social issues.  I don't care for Che or their behavior, but I think Seema, Karen and Lisa feel very well integrated into the storylines.  I find the Rock storyline interesting, and has the potential to give Charlotte more dimension and something real to do (as opposed to the last movie with the dumb nanny storyline).      

There was the episode Samantha was seeing the man with a servant and Charlotte said something about it. I don't remember exactly what she said but wasn't it something about there being different classes of people?

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3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Enid also explained to Carrie that all men her age want to date women at least 20 years younger, stuff like that.

We'll see how the writers handle this now, because Carrie is much closer to the age Enid was then and yet the show seems to be signaling that the handsome podcast producer (who may be in his early 50s to mid 50s) is going to be her love interest. 

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1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

There was the episode Samantha was seeing the man with a servant and Charlotte said something about it. I don't remember exactly what she said but wasn't it something about there being different classes of people?

Yes, she said something like class is very important. 🙄

Edited by T Summer
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20 hours ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

I disagree. They came over uninvited and dropped off a mic and booze while Carrie was recovering and drugged. The mic could be interpreted as dropping something off for work. In which case they should have remained professional. Carrie woke up to her boss fingerbanging someone in her kitchen, which is just unprofessional as hell. I would imagine most companies would expect some semblance of professionalism if you are doing something that could be interpreted as related to work.

I honestly can't believe anyone would think Che's behavior here was appropriate in her employee's house.  

19 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Rose was named for Harry's Bubbie which means grandmother in Yiddish, it meant something to him and to find out that Rose wants to be called Rock it has to hurt a little.

In what school especially a private school would the administration not communicate with Charlotte and Harry about Rock? They seem to be a micro managing type of school and I would have thought that if there is a change in identity there would have been a conversation between parents and teachers and if there wasn't the administration would have called the parents to ask if they were on board with the changes. 

Even if the parents were on board with the child changing their name and pro noun it would be discussed with the school psychologist just to make sure nobody is having an issue or if there are questions on either side, right?

 

Apparently this is the norm now?  Correct me if I'm wrong,  but the current sentiment seems to think the education system trumps parents in these situations.   I completely disagree,  but I don't have school age children.

Edited by mansonlamps
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2 hours ago, PRgal said:

Do we have any spoilers of what's happening in later episodes?  Would love to know what they're doing to Miranda!

Spoiler

the overview of ep 6 Sex and the Widow: Carrie gets an interesting proposition from her book publisher, while Miranda attempts to
rekindle a spark with Steve following radio silence from Che.

if you want to read the synopsis of next week's ep^

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22 minutes ago, T Summer said:
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the overview of ep 6 Sex and the Widow: Carrie gets an interesting proposition from her book publisher, while Miranda attempts to
rekindle a spark with Steve following radio silence from Che.

if you want to read the synopsis of next week's ep^

Oh that's rich of Miranda.

Spoiler

So when Steve rebukes her too little too late attempts that are only fueled by her feeling jilted by her mistress, we're supposed to continue to feel sorry for her "I've been unhappy FOREVER!" life? 

Not me. 

Team Steve. 

Edited by funnygirl
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3 hours ago, ravencroft said:

In reference to the whole situation with Rock (Granted I dont have kids at all and its been 20 years since I graduated HS), but can the school legally keep that kind of information away from the parents like that? I get that in a lot of cases its not safe for the kids to be themselves at home, but is that even legal?

It’s a huge - and very controversial - issue. Some people believe the child’s decision should be respected and protected against parents who may feel differently. Others believe that children are not mature enough to make that decision and that parents need to be informed and even empowered to contravene the decision.  Some say that keeping it from the parents is legal and necessary; some say that that constitutes child abuse. 

Either way, I’m sorry the show went that way.  It’s too big for a B or C plot and has no room, in my very humble opinion, in what’s supposed to be light comedy or even dramedy.  This show is supposed to be fluff.  But it sure does score woke points.

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10 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

Oh that's rich of Miranda.

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So when Steve rebukes her too little too late attempts that are only fueled by her feeling jilted by her mistress, we're supposed to continue to feel sorry for her "I've been unhappy FOREVER!" life? 

Not me.

Team Steve.  

DITTO.  The end result is already known (IMO), so this will just be blatant manipulation. No, thank you.

ETA: Hell, even the way it reads is like a consolation prize deal. All for a POS newbie.

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With all the lack of diversity critiques lobbed at the  show that they're now clubbing us over the head with their remedies to...

 

The other critique of SATC is being left in the dust. How is everyone so fabulously wealthy without a financial care in the world living  in one of the world's most expensive cities? We were lead to believe Charlotte's family was well healed but a sex columnist, a publicist and a lawyer are wealthy enough to never have money problems? Carrie had that minor hurdle when buying her apartment,   having to borrow the money for the down payment. Steve the bartender couldn't afford to pay $1800 for a suit for Miranda's company party that he would likely never wear again (or rarely wear), and Miranda once uttered the words after a visit  to the doctor: Yes, and I had to pay x dollars of my single person's salary to find that out. That is all I can recall of money issues over the six seasons. I think  it was inferred that Steve's  bar really took off after the suit debacle, though.

 

The day they married Carrie to Big in awful movie #1 (and especially now that she's his widow) they catapulted her to  like the billionaire realm. Right? Early in the series Samantha said to the girls about  Big  "they say he's the next Donald Trump". I wish they hadn't gone this  direction.

 

So how interesting are the lives of rich white women between 55 + 60 liable to be? (Not being ageist...it's more about the particular stage of life). I guess it's supposed to be post pandemic, but the social scene probably isn't what it once was. Coming into AJLT all the principals are married... so that lets out NYC dating  related content. That's probably why they killed Big off  if they made that decision way before the recent news items. Oh yes, MPK said as much in something posted earlier in this thread. Between no dating story lines and the loss of arguably the most charismatic of the four characters, I'm not sure what I'd come up with that would keep people watching and enjoying the new show.

I'd have preferred if Miranda hadn't committed 20 faux pas on first meeting her professor and they possibly worked closely on some social issue they both cared deeply about and that's how Dr. Naya Wallace becomes her friend and enters the group.

Carrie could have appeared on Che's  podcast  to commemorate the  anniversary of her book  release and maybe they hit it off to where Carrie appears  on it from time to time, and maybe that's how Che gets introduced to  the others.

Seema Carrie's realtor?.. I guess.

LTW?  [Lisa Todd Wexley]. I'm apathetic  to everything Charlotte related since   KD is acting her character completely differently from the way she did early in the series. So we can stay with her being  in Charlotte's moms group,  they're becoming friends and  her introducing her to Miranda and Carrie. Fine. I don't need    Charlotte 2.0 fangirling all over the place over  "LTW" though.

One of these paths to the friend group would've been fine. We didn't need all of them thrown at us at once like they're  ticking  boxes as has been suggested.

On matters so obvious they need not be stated: Steve should have remained a cognizant adult  and the two of them should've continued to  effectively parent their child. I mean, I get it...we're two years into a worldwide pandemic and I wouldn't have my son out trying to scare up a hotel room under $400 in NYC, but maybe not every night of the week and maybe you and your guest can be quiet and respectful! You know, like...  you're grateful?

Anthony will need to get back in circulation after he nurses his wounds inflicted by Stanford having  suddenly flown the coop. Perhaps we can  meet some new people when things pick up and he throws a party or two or they start attending events again.  I can't believe it's looking like we're going to get Carrie already dating in the next episode(s).

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This ep has made me lose interest in the rest of this disastrous series.

No idea how these women can justifiably afford around $20-30,000 a week on clothing, bags, and shoes. These items get pretty expensive. Their personal shoppers must be thrilled with the commission they make.

Carrie’s Strass Louboutins at the end of the ep are expensive. Granted, Big left her millions.

I was turned off at Carrie’s boss dropping by her home, using weed without asking - she is a guest in her employee’s home. Cut it out or deal with HR. And coming on to Miranda and getting it on when it isn’t even Miranda’s home. Ugh. She would probably be fired in the real world if this happened during business hours. Way beyond inappropriate.

Charlotte’s daughter Rose chose Rock - like Rock Hudson. Goes with the dog name of Richard Burton.

The show is trying too hard to be woke. I was offended last week when Charlotte didn’t have a lot of black friends. People come and go from your life. I may not always have a friend who is black or Asian or Indigenous or whatever. People come and go, people move away, you drift apart. I found that as I get older, many friendships seem to be ones of proximity and few stick around.

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If anything, this series seems to be like, "Just watch and forget the last 6 seasons of SATC! Because what comes next will just erase/negate/retcon everything, anyway! So, embrace the wannabe coolness and crudeness and WTF-ness of it all and go with it!"

It's an insult to long-time viewers and those who loved and invested in the stories and characters and their evolution. This is just woke and edgy for the sake of being woke and edgy.

And the few episodes I did see before giving up showed me the new characters were not nearly as fleshed out as Miranda, Samantha, Charlotte...and I guess I have to include Carrie, even if she was always a mess and sort of shallow, since that was how she was established.

The new characters seem to just check boxes instead of being shown as real people, albeit a fantasy version like the main 4 were. Whether that has changed, I can't say. But based on what I read here, it doesn't sound like it.

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I'm a bit confused by all the suggestions that "HR" would be intervening in the Che behavior thing. 

I'm 100% with you that the behavior is unprofessional, but most podcasts are done by little start up type businesses or individuals, especially one of this narrow a "niche" audience. They wouldn't have an HR department, a payroll department, etc.- it would far more likely just be one or two people trying to get something going.

I'm not able to recall the exact setting of the podcast people (or who actually owns the podcast) but typically it would be someone's spare bedroom, not a room at some corporate headquarters. There likely is no "HR."   

And just to amuse myself I dug up some old SATC eps where SJP had a shorter haircut and it looks fabulous. All that long hair is dragging her down and hers is not a face shape that deals well with that. There is a reason most women forego the long hair past a certain age.

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But I do think SJP liked being Carrie Bradshaw.

If you change liked to likes I agree. And I think that makes her far too close to be able to see things objectively.  The current tone of this show makes me wonder if she isn't living vicariously through younger Carrie and just can't let it go. And that's just sad. 

 

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Cattrall's been VERY quiet about this new show and its use of Samantha. I keep waiting for her to put out a Victoria Principal "They can legally do whatever they want with the character, but I choose not to participate" statement, but she hasn't. Maybe, just maybe, we haven't seen the last of Samantha in the flesh.

I think you're dreaming. Even if she had been reconsidering (which I very highly doubt) she would see this shit show and think again.   

And last- I and every other woman I know learned a great deal and became much wiser in the years between their 30's and their 50's.                                                                    

These ladies haven't learned a damn thing or matured even slightly and  IMO it's insulting to all of us in this demographic. My life is wonderfully rich and I think a bit interesting  even minus all the adolescent angst of boyfriends and cute shoes and insecurity. We still have interesting lives but we've eliminated the drama because we know ourselves a lot better now.  This reboot eliminated the maturation and kept the drama.

This Carrie is everything I want to avoid as an older woman- someone trying desperately to hang on to youth and looking ridiculous in the process- that net skirt on a 50+ woman is beyond ridiculous. If your personal style doesn't evolve as you age you end up looking like Ellie Mae Clampett all your life- and if you take it too far you turn into Baby Jane.    Those pearls in the recovery room were very Baby Jane.

Edited by Pestilentia
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On 1/1/2022 at 1:52 AM, Amethyst said:

I actually found the sex scene more disturbing than anything else.  The image of Che clamping their hand over Miranda's mouth while Miranda was moaning and gyrating was just creepy.

 

I agree 1000%. I found that extremely creepy and disturbing   

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Speaking of destroying the SATC Miranda, her son was pretty blatantly disrespectful in the first couple of episodes.  I can't imagine SATC Steve and SATC Miranda raising such a rude spoiled brat.  SATC Steve would be a very permissive parent, but he would be saying, "Hold on now" to the level of brattiness that Brady has.  And SATC Miranda would have never let him mouth off at all.     

 

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7 hours ago, 27bored said:

I understand it's a touchy subject for schools given the still-evolving attitudes around being trans and whatnot, but there's a pragmatic reason they need to let parents know this kind of thing. Having prepubescent children deciding to change their pronouns and present as a different gender could possibly lead to them acting out sexually while they're still minors. It's one thing if you have a girl who decides she wants to identify as a boy and what that translates to is she dresses like a tomboy and changes her name. I understand it's more than that, but I'm saying outwardly speaking. That's not a big deal. The school should be accommodating of that and ensure that child isn't being bullied. But what about when and if that child decides they want to act on their sexuality? Then you have a problem, because the people who are cool with twelve year olds choosing their gender typically aren't cool with twelve year olds having sex. 

Yes, I know even "straight" or cis het children go through this, and I know it's not exactly the same thing, but I think when you start going down the road of letting children -- especially a child who hasn't even started her period yet, I'm assuming -- "do their own thing" and "do what they feel", you inadvertently permit them to act on other impulses that aren't exactly a voguish topic of discussion.

Lots of straight kids, cis kids, are having sexual activity at 12 too. It was that way 30 years ago when I was in a Christian private grade school where the kids were certainly not being told to do their own thing, and it's that way now. So no, I don't agree with this. Unless the kid in question is asexual, there's a good chance of some sexual activity. One could argue it's likelier to happen with straight children because most identify as straight and so there is a larger pool of potential partners. If a parent only thinks that sexual activity could be a real possibility if their kid is not straight or cis, that parent is in for a rude awakening at some point. Charlotte and Harry don't need to pay more attention to Rock than they do Lily in terms of watching for sexual activity; they should be paying attention to both of them equally. (Though I suppose they probably will pay more attention to Rock, thus making it easy for Lily to get away with more. I've seen that dynamic play out quite a bit too.)

The school not telling Harry and Charlotte is about a basic rule, which is that you don't out a kid, especially not to their parents. It doesn't matter what the school knows or thinks they know about the kid's parents. Does that mean the parents may find out in some other way that isn't as ideal as their own kid telling them? Yes, but that still doesn't mean the school should do it. A significant percentage of homeless children are LGBTQ and they're not all from families who fit stereotypes we might think of.

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15 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

 

The school not telling Harry and Charlotte is about a basic rule, which is that you don't out a kid, especially not to their parents. It doesn't matter what the school knows or thinks they know about the kid's parents. Does that mean the parents may find out in some other way that isn't as ideal as their own kid telling them? Yes, but that still doesn't mean the school should do it. A significant percentage of homeless children are LGBTQ and they're not all from families who fit stereotypes we might think of.

But Rock was already out enough that the parents of her classmates knew.  Now the school might not have known that but I didn't like the school presuming Harry and Charlotte weren't being supportive.  

Also Rock announced her wanting to be called Rock on Tik Tok and expected her parents would watch and that would be that.   Is this what people in Rock's generation do?  Is it too much to ask that she would have come to her parents and talked about it with them?

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43 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

But Rock was already out enough that the parents of her classmates knew.  Now the school might not have known that but I didn't like the school presuming Harry and Charlotte weren't being supportive.  

Also Rock announced her wanting to be called Rock on Tik Tok and expected her parents would watch and that would be that.   Is this what people in Rock's generation do?  Is it too much to ask that she would have come to her parents and talked about it with them?

If my kids (they are adults, I do not think they post on Tik Tok) post anything on Tik Tok I would never see it much like Harry and Charlotte, I think if Rock had a conversation with them they would not have felt like the rug had been pulled out from under them. 

On the other hand, Rock told Charlotte that she did not feel like a girl (what ever that is supposed to feel like, I just feel like me), Charlotte had no follow up questions for her?  I would have expected Charlotte, the woman that still reads to her 12 year old to be a bit more involved in that sort of comment, Charlotte is uber involved with the school but not her kid?

 

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1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

If my kids (they are adults, I do not think they post on Tik Tok) post anything on Tik Tok I would never see it much like Harry and Charlotte, I think if Rock had a conversation with them they would not have felt like the rug had been pulled out from under them. 

On the other hand, Rock told Charlotte that she did not feel like a girl (what ever that is supposed to feel like, I just feel like me), Charlotte had no follow up questions for her?  I would have expected Charlotte, the woman that still reads to her 12 year old to be a bit more involved in that sort of comment, Charlotte is uber involved with the school but not her kid?

 

When Rock talked with Charlotte I had a problem with her saying "I don't feel like a girl" because there was no "I feel like a boy". So for Rose/Rock it seems more the lack of a certain feeling (which many of us would say is a social construct anyway), and many women would say "well, I don't always feel like a girl either, but I'm not a boy".

I was born female and I'm gender fluid, to use a term of these times. I don't really use it (I'm not in any situation where I need to) because, yes, I feel like me, which is often "male" and sometimes "female", and I've felt this way since I was a little kid, when I felt mostly like a boy and dressed and behaved like a boy. It wasn't a body thing; I didn't and don't want a penis or dislike being in my female body. It's the way my mind works, my way of being and interacting in the world, etc. So for me having her not say "sometimes I feel like a boy" didn't ring true to the actual feelings of being gender fluid or transexual. Does that make sense? I do acknowledge that for some, the "I am not this!" maybe is much stronger than the "I am this" feeling that I had. Whatever, again the show disappoints me with bringing in a big issue and handling it, IMO, poorly. Who is advising these writers?!

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MPK has said a big reason for killing off Big was so Carrie wouldn't have that relationship to continually fall back on. Her ending up with Aidan would be a logical conclusion.

As much as I love Aidan (and the actor), doesn’t he have four kids who would be teenagers? Assuming he’s divorced, he and Carrie might get some kid-free time, but if he’s widowed then Carrie becomes a full-time Mom. Um, no.

Regarding Rock and the school telling Charlotte and Harry. I get the point that some kids might be in danger at home if such information was revealed, but many would not. The school doesn’t know where C&H fall, so it’s incumbent on them to contact the parents for a conference to say, so here’s what’s happening. Or ask Rock how their parents feel about the name change, although Rock probably said something typically preteen-stupid like, “I put it out there and they haven’t reacted at all, they’re so chill about it.”

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2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Lots of straight kids, cis kids, are having sexual activity at 12 too. It was that way 30 years ago when I was in a Christian private grade school where the kids were certainly not being told to do their own thing, and it's that way now. So no, I don't agree with this. Unless the kid in question is asexual, there's a good chance of some sexual activity. One could argue it's likelier to happen with straight children because most identify as straight and so there is a larger pool of potential partners. If a parent only thinks that sexual activity could be a real possibility if their kid is not straight or cis, that parent is in for a rude awakening at some point. Charlotte and Harry don't need to pay more attention to Rock than they do Lily in terms of watching for sexual activity; they should be paying attention to both of them equally. (Though I suppose they probably will pay more attention to Rock, thus making it easy for Lily to get away with more. I've seen that dynamic play out quite a bit too.)

Thank you. Gender identity/expression has fuck-all to do with sexual activity. Assuming that LGBTQIA+ people are inherently hyper sexual is a dangerous & hurtful stereotype, IMO. Not to mention that it implies that asexual people don't exist. 

5 hours ago, BucFan said:
On 1/1/2022 at 12:52 AM, Amethyst said:

I actually found the sex scene more disturbing than anything else.  The image of Che clamping their hand over Miranda's mouth while Miranda was moaning and gyrating was just creepy.

 

I agree 1000%. I found that extremely creepy and disturbing   

Yeah. Not to get too TMI, but shit like clamping your hand over your sexual partner's mouth (or pinning your sexual partner by their wrists/ankles) needs to be discussed before doing the action if it's your first time having sex with that person. Someone's kink that increases their sexual pleasure can be another person's post-traumatic stress trigger that ruins the experience.

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As far as the possibility of Aiden returning, I never understood why Aiden would WANT Carrie back. She consistently treated him terribly. The reason the second movie was so unbelievable to me was "Why would Aiden want to kiss someone who treated him badly in not one but two relationships and he seemingly moved on from?"

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19 minutes ago, Tattooeddancer said:

As far as the possibility of Aiden returning, I never understood why Aiden would WANT Carrie back. She consistently treated him terribly. The reason the second movie was so unbelievable to me was "Why would Aiden want to kiss someone who treated him badly in not one but two relationships and he seemingly moved on from?"

Right? Just one of many things that made that movie so awful. ...and when Aiden  wistfully utters the words boy, are  you not like anyone else (or very similar)

That didn't ring true at all to me.

 

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26 minutes ago, Tattooeddancer said:

As far as the possibility of Aiden returning, I never understood why Aiden would WANT Carrie back. She consistently treated him terribly. The reason the second movie was so unbelievable to me was "Why would Aiden want to kiss someone who treated him badly in not one but two relationships and he seemingly moved on from?"

I wouldn't get it either. Aiden is a handsome and tall nice man with money. I can only see a man without options wanting to be with a woman who treated him so terribly. 

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52 minutes ago, Shermie said:

 Or ask Rock how their parents feel about the name change, although Rock probably said something typically preteen-stupid like, “I put it out there and they haven’t reacted at all, they’re so chill about it.”

This would have made such sense. But then there wouldn't be the conflict we saw. I understand this is all fictional and the writers are going to write things to invoke drama but regarding something like a gender fluid/non binary preteen they really should try to write it in a realistic way.  But since I have no personal experience with this maybe this is a realistic?  I just don't know.

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13 hours ago, 27bored said:

And that brings me to the Rosie/Rock situation. This might be an unpopular opinion but not only do I think the school should've told Charlotte and Harry, I think the show is sending the wrong message as well. I understand it's a touchy subject for schools given the still-evolving attitudes around being trans and whatnot, but there's a pragmatic reason they need to let parents know this kind of thing. Having prepubescent children deciding to change their pronouns and present as a different gender could possibly lead to them acting out sexually while they're still minors. It's one thing if you have a girl who decides she wants to identify as a boy and what that translates to is she dresses like a tomboy and changes her name. I understand it's more than that, but I'm saying outwardly speaking. That's not a big deal. The school should be accommodating of that and ensure that child isn't being bullied. But what about when and if that child decides they want to act on their sexuality? Then you have a problem, because the people who are cool with twelve year olds choosing their gender typically aren't cool with twelve year olds having sex. 

Yes, I know even "straight" or cis het children go through this, and I know it's not exactly the same thing, but I think when you start going down the road of letting children -- especially a child who hasn't even started her period yet, I'm assuming -- "do their own thing" and "do what they feel", you inadvertently permit them to act on other impulses that aren't exactly a voguish topic of discussion. And I think they're conflating respect and tolerance for LGBTQ+ community with what constitutes good parenting, and that's not a good message to send. 

Wild that Brady is "exploring his sexuality" by hammering his girlfriend right next door to his parents, but somehow there's a concern that Rock will experiment too early due to their gender exploration? Yikes. Supporting queer kids to be open with their pronouns and preferences doesn't mean they're going to leap straight into bed with people. It might mean that they'll get to hold hands and send valentines to their crushes though, just like every cishet kid gets to do, often in elementary school. Although "love is love" is a bit too hacky, it does mean that people have the right to express their feelings. It doesn't mean sex in their city. Or it doesn't have to.

The kids who have to repress their identities are often the ones most likely to not only explore the sexual side of things earlier, but do so in an unsafe way with untrustworthy people. Pretty akin to evangelical teens getting pregnant, honestly. No matter how confused Charlotte and Harry feel right now, I appreciate they're trying to figure out how to support Rock as opposed to squish Rock's identity.

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5 hours ago, T Summer said:

Right? Just one of many things that made that movie so awful. ...and when Aiden  wistfully utters the words boy, are  you not like anyone else (or very similar)

That didn't ring true at all to me.

 

But Carrie has to be the be-all, end-all. (She's not, but it seems like a requirement. Both in this mess and SATC.) With SJP as an EP on both, not a shock as to why...

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I think the big (heh!) problem for me is that with SATC, I was divided between laughing WITH the characters and laughing AT them. This version has neither because it's not funny. But worse, the viewer can't feel empathy, because they're not enough the same characters that we can care about them. And Carrie was a selfish dingbat, but because she struggled with just existing, we could feel for her. How are we expected to feel anything positive for a selfish bajillionaire? They should have had Big lose all his money before he died, then Carrie would have to (maybe) finally grow up.

Hey, Miranda, if it's been a long dry spell, there's nothing wrong with a little D-I-Y in the shower instead of acting like a drunk college student getting it on at a kegger with other people around. Sheesh, she just did a Brady.

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9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Lots of straight kids, cis kids, are having sexual activity at 12 too. It was that way 30 years ago when I was in a Christian private grade school where the kids were certainly not being told to do their own thing, and it's that way now. So no, I don't agree with this. Unless the kid in question is asexual, there's a good chance of some sexual activity. One could argue it's likelier to happen with straight children because most identify as straight and so there is a larger pool of potential partners. If a parent only thinks that sexual activity could be a real possibility if their kid is not straight or cis, that parent is in for a rude awakening at some point. Charlotte and Harry don't need to pay more attention to Rock than they do Lily in terms of watching for sexual activity; they should be paying attention to both of them equally. (Though I suppose they probably will pay more attention to Rock, thus making it easy for Lily to get away with more. I've seen that dynamic play out quite a bit too.)

The school not telling Harry and Charlotte is about a basic rule, which is that you don't out a kid, especially not to their parents. It doesn't matter what the school knows or thinks they know about the kid's parents. Does that mean the parents may find out in some other way that isn't as ideal as their own kid telling them? Yes, but that still doesn't mean the school should do it. A significant percentage of homeless children are LGBTQ and they're not all from families who fit stereotypes we might think of.

I'd argue that if lots of twelve year olds are having sexual activity of any orientation or identity, that's a big problem. Also, if the school, the other kids, and the other parents, and TikTok knew...this isn't an issue of the school outing a kid to their parents. And the whole idea of outing a child -- again, a twelve year old -- because you're not sure how the parents will handle it, is BS, both in theory and in context. It's not the school's job to raise these students and assert their personal mores on them. And it's bogus because Charlotte is clearly a very involved, very caring parent. The school should respect Charlotte and Harry enough to keep it on the level with them irrespective of how they feel about gender non-binary children.

8 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

But Rock was already out enough that the parents of her classmates knew.  Now the school might not have known that but I didn't like the school presuming Harry and Charlotte weren't being supportive.  

Also Rock announced her wanting to be called Rock on Tik Tok and expected her parents would watch and that would be that.   Is this what people in Rock's generation do?  Is it too much to ask that she would have come to her parents and talked about it with them?

Exactly. 

6 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Thank you. Gender identity/expression has fuck-all to do with sexual activity. Assuming that LGBTQIA+ people are inherently hyper sexual is a dangerous & hurtful stereotype, IMO. Not to mention that it implies that asexual people don't exist. 

And that's not what I meant. Like I said, you can't conflate tolerance with good parenting. Because sometimes you don't get to be the nice guy when you're practicing good parenting. So Rose wanting to go by some nickname because she claims she doesn't feel like a girl, and her not wanting to wear dresses and heels, doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. And it may just come down to her wanting to present as more "boyish" than "girly" (and I'm speaking in preteen logic here). Well, eventually that's more than likely going to translate into wanting to act on the sexual feelings everybody has when going through puberty. 

The issue for me is Rose is a child and doesn't even have a full understanding of masculinity and femininity, yet she's sure she doesn't want to "conform" to a gender.

2 hours ago, Rai said:

Wild that Brady is "exploring his sexuality" by hammering his girlfriend right next door to his parents, but somehow there's a concern that Rock will experiment too early due to their gender exploration? Yikes. Supporting queer kids to be open with their pronouns and preferences doesn't mean they're going to leap straight into bed with people. It might mean that they'll get to hold hands and send valentines to their crushes though, just like every cishet kid gets to do, often in elementary school. Although "love is love" is a bit too hacky, it does mean that people have the right to express their feelings. It doesn't mean sex in their city. Or it doesn't have to.

The kids who have to repress their identities are often the ones most likely to not only explore the sexual side of things earlier, but do so in an unsafe way with untrustworthy people. Pretty akin to evangelical teens getting pregnant, honestly. No matter how confused Charlotte and Harry feel right now, I appreciate they're trying to figure out how to support Rock as opposed to squish Rock's identity.

My point is the school and Charlotte and Harry will have a long time to come to terms and accept Rose/Rock for who they are if they are truly non-binary. I'm not necessarily looking down on them as bad parents or bad people because they don't immediately conform to their twelve year-old's chosen gender identity and pronouns. I completely understand one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other as a technical matter, but I'm saying it's probably not a good idea for schools or parents to let their preteens start defining themselves based on their sexuality. And I say that as a general rule of thumb, not just within this context. When I was that age, I remember so many of the boys and girls I went to school with trying to act grown. And I think that's where a lot of issues even in cis het relationships starts. Because many kids were in too much of rush to act grown when they didn't know anything about sex or relationships and nobody told them to go sit down somewhere. So many boys grow up not knowing to treat women, and girls grow up to distrust and somewhat despise men because they associate them as just wanting nothing from them but sex. But that's what happens when you get sexualized too early. 

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1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

But Carrie has to be the be-all, end-all. (She's not, but it seems like a requirement. Both in this mess and SATC.) With SJP as an EP on both, not a shock as to why...

You're right That's as obligatory as SJP squeezing in her scream whenever and wherever possible.

Even if it's a whole other vehicle, i.e. Failure to Launch

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With Rose/Rock, they could indeed be certain that they are gender fluid, even at a young age. That seems normal in many such instances I have read.

However, as an extreme example, I recall the big deal made in celeb rags/shows when celebrity kid Shiloh Jolie-Pitt was looking like and dressing like a boy. And I loved how Angelina Jolie just let her child express themselves as they felt.

I even recall rumors (as it was the tabloids!) that it was allegedly stated Shiloh wanted to be called John. True or untrue, we'll never know.

But in Shiloh's case only, that all did appear to be a phase as a month or two ago, there were pictures of Angelina Jolie and her kids at some premiere and two of her daughters, Zahra - and Shiloh - were wearing old dresses of their mom's, which the mags pointed out (showing pics of Angelina in the dresses, and then her daughters).

So, it appears - as I don't know her and never will - that in Shiloh's case, it was a phase. So I can sort of understand Harry's POV in that regard.

It really can go either way. But this show has been so ham-fisted about everything, so... *shrug* 

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1 hour ago, 27bored said:

And the whole idea of outing a child -- again, a twelve year old -- because you're not sure how the parents will handle it, is BS, both in theory and in context.

How is caring about whether you will actively put a child in harm's way BS? Schools have a right to be concerned about the welfare of children even when they're not actively in the building. While I can completely see that Rock is safe in Charlotte and Harry's household, I think the adage "better safe than sorry" applies to situations such as these. Think of it this way: best case scenario is that if the parents are truly accepting of a change in gender/pronouns, while they may be hurt that they weren't told, they aren't going to do anything to harm the child. However, worst case scenario is that by outing the child, the parent may kick them out of the house or even physically harm them. I'd take hurting the accepting parents' feelings over potentially causing harm to a child.

1 hour ago, 27bored said:

Like I said, you can't conflate tolerance with good parenting. Because sometimes you don't get to be the nice guy when you're practicing good parenting

In this case you absolutely can because good parenting means tolerating and accepting your child's gender identity. 

1 hour ago, 27bored said:

I completely understand one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other as a technical matter, but I'm saying it's probably not a good idea for schools or parents to let their preteens start defining themselves based on their sexuality.

It's not a "technical matter." Gender expression/identity is not the same thing as sexual orientation. No one on this show -- namely Rock -- is defining themselves based on sexuality aka sexual orientation, so I'm not sure it's fully understood that one has nothing to do with the other. One can explore their gender without giving a thought to their sexual orientation.

Edited by PepSinger
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On 1/1/2022 at 5:56 PM, Trillian said:

It’s a huge - and very controversial - issue. Some people believe the child’s decision should be respected and protected against parents who may feel differently. Others believe that children are not mature enough to make that decision and that parents need to be informed and even empowered to contravene the decision.  Some say that keeping it from the parents is legal and necessary; some say that that constitutes child abuse. 

Either way, I’m sorry the show went that way.  It’s too big for a B or C plot and has no room, in my very humble opinion, in what’s supposed to be light comedy or even dramedy.  This show is supposed to be fluff.  But it sure does score woke points.

I agree with you--the show's writers do not have the sensitivity or education to handle gender dynamics. I mean, the whole premise was a woman who really likes shoes and stupid hats marrying up so she didn't have to have a job or her own money. Gender identity is such a huge deal (and I have some sensitivity toward Rose being named after Harry's Bubbie, and the grief you may have to deal with when your kid rejects the identity you've chosen for them, but a person's individuality definitely supersedes any antiquated gender norms you've chosen for a child you barely knew when you named them). 

Oh and while we're on this, Miranda is not a lesbian, and she's not exploring a lesbian side. Che is not a woman, and none of her past love interests have been women. The writers are completely biffing this, but in no way is Miranda being or acting like a lesbian.

The name change issue reminded me of when I decided I wanted to change my name as a kid. I chose a gender neutral name, but not because I'm NB (I'm as femme as they come), but just because I liked it. No one ever told my parents and this was the 80s. (Coincidentally, the name I chose is now the name of a close relative who's transitioning currently.) Ultimately it WAS a childish phase, but we can't presume the same of someone who's questioning their gender. They may end up not transitioning at all, but we owe it to them to validate their journey either way.

But uh...a show whose major arc and claim to fame is about sex and fashion and extreme consumption is not the vehicle to take on these issues.

This episode was horrible as you've all eloquently pointed out, but that sex scene was the most I've ever cringed. Usually I can't stand Carrie's self-centeredness, but she was 100% in the right here. I hope Miranda gets her shit together.

I also hate how they're retconning Samantha. I know Kim Catrall has insisted that they can do what they want with the character, but I can't stomach knowing someone else is behind those text messages. In my mind, Samantha belongs to Kim and this feels disingenuous. 

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2 hours ago, PepSinger said:

How is caring about whether you will actively put a child in harm's way BS? Schools have a right to be concerned about the welfare of children even when they're not actively in the building. While I can completely see that Rock is safe in Charlotte and Harry's household, I think the adage "better safe than sorry" applies to situations such as these. Think of it this way: best case scenario is that if the parents are truly accepting of a change in gender/pronouns, while they may be hurt that they weren't told, they aren't going to do anything to harm the child. However, worst case scenario is that by outing the child, the parent may kick them out of the house or even physically harm them. I'd take hurting the accepting parents' feelings over potentially causing harm to a child.

Really?  The school wouldn't give a second's thought to informing the parents if the child did something bad in school like hurt another classmate or rob someone of their money, and that could just as easily get a kid kicked out of the house by their parents or physically harmed by them, so I'm with @27boredthat this excuse for not telling them about it would be BS.  Anyway, I was under the impression the school assumed they knew about it and that's why they didn't tell them.

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24 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

The school wouldn't give a second's thought to informing the parents if the child did something bad in school like hurt another classmate or rob someone of their money, and that could just as easily get a kid kicked out of the house by their parents or physically harmed by them

A couple of things: 1) Both of those examples involved an action done against another student that caused harm, whereas someone changing their pronouns involves no one else. 2) Both of those examples are crimes (assault, petty theft), whereas changing genders is not a criminal act. Apples and oranges.

ETA: 

6 minutes ago, Yeah No said:
7 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

A couple of things: 1) Both of those examples involved an action done against another student that caused harm, whereas someone changing their pronouns involves no one else. 2) Both of those examples are crimes (assault, petty theft), whereas changing genders is not a criminal act. Apples and oranges.

The school would also tell parents if the child was caught smoking or doing drugs.  So it's not just about crimes or doing harm to others

It's illegal for minors to have cigarettes. Plus, smoking is proven to be bad for a person's health. As for doing drugs, drug use is illegal for all minors, including marijuana. Any other drug usage is also a crime (possession of a controlled substance). Also, there's the whole being bad for your health angle. Again, those things are crimes and harmful to one's physical health. Same goes for alcohol. Apples and Oranges. But, hey, agree to disagree.

Edited by PepSinger
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On 1/1/2022 at 8:56 PM, Trillian said:

It’s a huge - and very controversial - issue. Some people believe the child’s decision should be respected and protected against parents who may feel differently. Others believe that children are not mature enough to make that decision and that parents need to be informed and even empowered to contravene the decision.  Some say that keeping it from the parents is legal and necessary; some say that that constitutes child abuse. 

I think the problem complicating this even further is that some children are mature enough and some aren't.  Some know what they are from the time they're 5 and others try on identities like fashions and don't really know until they're 17.  

I have a graduate degree in psychology.  It doesn't help that everything I learned in school supports the idea that adolescence is a time of experimenting and learning about who one is, and that often the decisions one makes when in that phase are only a passing phase.  This is not just applicable to gender decisions but just about everything including one's appearance, religious beliefs and opinions about current events.  

I personally don't think anything about a child should be withheld from their parents because they are ultimately responsible for them while the child is still a minor and deserve to be treated in that capacity.  Just my opinion.

Edited by Yeah No
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6 hours ago, PepSinger said:

A couple of things: 1) Both of those examples involved an action done against another student that caused harm, whereas someone changing their pronouns involves no one else. 2) Both of those examples are crimes (assault, petty theft), whereas changing genders is not a criminal act. Apples and oranges.

The school would also tell parents if the child was caught smoking, coming to class drunk or doing drugs.  Or if she started talking about being pregnant.  So it's not just about crimes and/or where harm is done to self or others.

Edited by Yeah No
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3 hours ago, 27bored said:

My point is the school and Charlotte and Harry will have a long time to come to terms and accept Rose/Rock for who they are if they are truly non-binary. I'm not necessarily looking down on them as bad parents or bad people because they don't immediately conform to their twelve year-old's chosen gender identity and pronouns. I completely understand one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other as a technical matter, but I'm saying it's probably not a good idea for schools or parents to let their preteens start defining themselves based on their sexuality. And I say that as a general rule of thumb, not just within this context. When I was that age, I remember so many of the boys and girls I went to school with trying to act grown. And I think that's where a lot of issues even in cis het relationships starts. Because many kids were in too much of rush to act grown when they didn't know anything about sex or relationships and nobody told them to go sit down somewhere. So many boys grow up not knowing to treat women, and girls grow up to distrust and somewhat despise men because they associate them as just wanting nothing from them but sex. But that's what happens when you get sexualized too early. 

Good thing Rock is defining themself based on their gender, not their sexuality then. Because they are different matters. Also, Rock is exploring their identity and figuring out what it means for them, which means they may change their mind and return to identifying as a girl or go further and identify as a boy or just stay where they are, which is what Anthony was basically trying to tell Charlotte. No one does know yet, but Rock deserves the chance to explore this now. In fact, when the parents and school are supportive, it is the safest time to be exploring that question as opposed to having to stumble through it as an adult and lose time trying to conform to something that isn't them.

And gender identity has nothing to do with who you're attracted to. You can be any gender and still find the same person attractive. If we're so worried that early sexuality can lead to toxic stereotypes about relationships and genders, then gender exploration is even better because part of that journey is critically examining gender roles as constructs. What better way to learn unhealthy stereotypes don't have to be true than to declare "this is what being a boy means to me"?

Treating any variation on gender or sexuality as something deviant and too adult just keeps normalizing cis/het as the default by which all other genders and sexualities should adhere to. Three-year-olds give each other a kiss on the playground and get called boyfriend and girlfriend. Eight-year-olds chase each other around the playground, and it's called flirting. Ten-year-olds give each other valentines. The path for romance and yes, sex, is laid out in the open for cishet kids already. But as far as I'm concerned, that's also where the toxic stereotyping starts too. 

Anyway, Rock seems content to sit  around in a frog onesie and play video games, so their seduction techniques seem safe from being polished for now. Which should be a source of relief for Charlotte and Harry on that front!

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(edited)
13 hours ago, Tattooeddancer said:

As far as the possibility of Aiden returning, I never understood why Aiden would WANT Carrie back. She consistently treated him terribly.

I always thought Carrie treated Aidan like Big treated her and that's why I never had a problem with Carrie running back to Big, they really deserved each other. And with Big and Carrie getting married they at least ensured that nobody else got the short end of their sticks.

Thinking back, it was hilarious how Carrie basically wanted to be Big's Aidan. She wanted him to change and give up his vices for her like she gave up smoking for Aidan. Didn't work for either of them.

Edited by Aulty
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Setting aside for a moment whether the school SHOULD have told them, I don't understand how not telling them works, as a practical matter. This is their NAME. (A child's sexuality wouldn't be expected to be discussed by teachers, but their name would be used a million times.) So everyone at school calls them Rock, and then seamlessly switches to Rose as soon as Charlotte enters the building? What about written materials that go home (permission slips, report cards, invitations)? Rock is never going to have a friend over? So Charlotte and Harry show up at graduation some day and can't find their daughter's name in the program? 

Protecting children is a noble goal, I'm just doubtful that it works that way. Inevitably - as we saw in this episode - the parents WILL find out. And in my experience, the longer someone is kept in the dark, the worse their reaction will be. JMHO and all that. 

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32 minutes ago, Jane Tuesday said:

 So everyone at school calls them Rock, and then seamlessly switches to Rose as soon as Charlotte enters the building? What about written materials that go home (permission slips, report cards, invitations)? Rock is never going to have a friend over? So Charlotte and Harry show up at graduation some day and can't find their daughter's name in the program? 

It was because of Rock performing in some school thing that Charlotte and Harry found out.  The parents Charlotte was zooming referred to how well Rock had done during her performance and Charlotte was unaware of who they were talking about.  I add this to the list of plot contrivances the writers have written to facilitate a story point they need to tell.  

8 hours ago, monagatuna said:

But uh...a show whose major arc and claim to fame is about sex and fashion and extreme consumption is not the vehicle to take on these issues.

A big problem (in my not some humble opinion) is SATC was a comedy that would add in some drama and tragedy.  And they would lighten the mood if things got too dark.  But this show is way too much drama. The only comedy we are getting is a funny quip from Anthony.  What the show thinks is funny is not.          

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On 12/30/2021 at 6:05 AM, ruby24 said:

Okay, so..Miranda just IS Cynthia Nixon now. Great. Everything we ever knew about her was a lie then? She never loved Steve? That is SO shitty to longtime fans, honestly. I'm sorry but I don't even buy this! Miranda (and all of them) were active and exploring enough of their own sexualities for so long- well into their adult lives, I mean Miranda was nearly 40 when she had Brady and I remember when she told Steve she'd slept with 42 people. And then there was the episode where people thought she was a lesbian, etc. This is just..retconning. I'm sorry but it is.

What the fuck is the point of Miranda having pointless conversations with Brady's idiot girlfriend? Why is that more important than giving her a scene with her own son or showing that she has some kind of a relationship with him? They don't seem to want to write boys, is the vibe I'm getting- they'd rather throw in a young girl character through him for Miranda to converse with instead. Especially given that Charlotte's girls have already had more scenes than Brady.

Poor Steve. Another episode without him to make us forget about him I guess. 

That texting thing with Samantha has me thinking they're really banking on getting Kim Cattrall back eventually, if the show keeps going.

 

I was watching “Colombo” all weekend, and Kim Cattrall was on one of the episodes when young.  She was the star of the show imo, and they miss her now.    She was very smart to hold her ground and remain a star.  This show has turned to shit.  Everything about it is not the Show we all knew.  Good for Kim.  Money isn’t everything to her, her reputation is.

Edited by kristen111
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On 1/1/2022 at 11:13 AM, Shermie said:

Yes, let’s talk about Che’s podcast partner. What. The. Ever-loving. Hell?  He’s grunting and snorting and carrying on like a 12-year-old boy who found his father’s secret Playboy stash. Good gawd. The diaphragm story is a good story, actually. It’s funny and icky and has the message that good friends will do anything for you. But the reaction of the podcasters was ridiculous.

 

Yeah, so far the podcast reminds me of those podcasts I hate - people who are not really that funny laughing too much rather than discussing an actual topic. I've had a few recommended to me that I just can't get into because of it. 

And whether or not the humor was my taste, Carrie was usually portrayed as fairly witty in the original version of this show. Cracking one-liners or puns at brunch, etc. On the podcast she seems so humorless. And that was even before Big died.

I'm hoping at the end of this thing, Carrie realizes the podcast is not for her and moves on. 

Edited by candle96
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28 minutes ago, candle96 said:

Yeah, so far the podcast reminds me of those podcasts I hate - people who are not really that funny laughing too much rather than discussing an actual topic. I've had a few recommended to me that I just can't get into because of it. 

And whether or not the humor was my taste, Carrie was always portrayed fairly witty in the original version of this show. Cracking one-liners or puns at brunch, etc. On the podcast she seems so humorless. And that was even before Big died.

I'm hoping at the end of this thing, Carrie realizes the podcast is not for her and moves on. 

Yes, Carrie moving on from the podcast would at least show some growth. I guess since we jumped three months that we won't see her and Che having any discussion about Che's behavior. 

I started listening to a podcast yesterday and although it was on a financial topic and somewhat serious the two hosts (a man and woman) were interspersing their info with stories about buying and taking drugs and they were cackling and interrupting each other with dumb, unfunny remarks, just like Carrie's stupid podcast! Do they really think this gets listeners? It might have been informative but I wasn't going to wade through their giggly crap. It was such a turnoff that I turned it off.

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49 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Yes, Carrie moving on from the podcast would at least show some growth. I guess since we jumped three months that we won't see her and Che having any discussion about Che's behavior. 

I started listening to a podcast yesterday and although it was on a financial topic and somewhat serious the two hosts (a man and woman) were interspersing their info with stories about buying and taking drugs and they were cackling and interrupting each other with dumb, unfunny remarks, just like Carrie's stupid podcast! Do they really think this gets listeners? It might have been informative but I wasn't going to wade through their giggly crap. It was such a turnoff that I turned it off.

Yea i never got into the hey you wanna listen to a stranger and their friends ramble on about a topic and joke amongst themselves about jokes you arnt in on? then have we got the thing for you. No im good

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On 1/1/2022 at 7:56 PM, Trillian said:

It’s a huge - and very controversial - issue. Some people believe the child’s decision should be respected and protected against parents who may feel differently. Others believe that children are not mature enough to make that decision and that parents need to be informed and even empowered to contravene the decision.  Some say that keeping it from the parents is legal and necessary; some say that that constitutes child abuse. 

Either way, I’m sorry the show went that way.  It’s too big for a B or C plot and has no room, in my very humble opinion, in what’s supposed to be light comedy or even dramedy.  This show is supposed to be fluff.  But it sure does score woke points.

My best friend has two nieces/nephews who are going through this. Both are in their early to mid teens and both are lucky that the family is supportive and giving them the time to explore. 

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