S41.E07: There’s Gonna Be Blood

[BK1978]

4 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

I had no problem with Sydney, and honestly wish she hadn’t gone.  But better her than Evvie, at least.

I don’t understand Erika in the slightest.  “The devil you know” seems to be her strategy, because going back (at TC) to the people who exiled her doesn’t seem very bright to me.  Obviously the other group needs numbers, and she’d have been higher up in that group than she is in the all-black alliance + Heather, Naseer, and Erika.  I know they haven’t made their alliance known, but the speed with which Liana eased into that group ought to tell them something.  I understand Naseer sticking around, but I think Heather and Erika would be wise to abandon ship, TBH.

LOL…I totally forgot about Ricard.  Oops.

Also, the way in which Shan sort of led the conversation at TC should have clued Erika in to the fact that she just slipped even further down the ladder of the alliance.  If it was me and I saw a player who came from a tribe of two all of a sudden being one of the driving forces in the conversation I would have to be internally question what the hell is going on.

 

4 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

One of the things that's been unreasonably bugging me this season is all the calling out of "Love you!" to the person who just got voted out. It's not new, but it seems especially obvious (and fake) this time. Up until now, the eliminated person has usually turned and acknowledged them, but not Sydney, which is totally on brand. And good for her!

That was what I loved about Cody's exit from Big Brother (Was it season 19 or 18?).  He got voted out, got up walked on top of the table and ignored everyone who had treated him like crap for the past however long it was that he was there.

4 hours ago, UGAmp said:

Liana and Shan definitely need to be knocked down a few pegs (though it started with this tribal council).

Exactly and Liana seemed so smug before Xander blindsided her.  I will be perfectly honest, I did not care for Xander one way or the other prior to tonight, but I like him now.

What I am still wondering is why Liana seems to hate Xander so much.  Is there something we the audience were never shown?  Or was there something I missed.  Because even in tonight's episode she said something along the lines of Xander not respecting her game.  Then there was a confessional from Xander where he said he was a shark right out in the open while she was a shark you could not see. 

I took that to mean that he does respect her game and sees her for how good she is.  Also, in prior episodes it seemed like Xander always wanted to work with her, while she was the one who wanted nothing to do with him.   But the way she talks about their relationship makes it seem like the opposite.  I really would like to know if something happened between them that we are not privy to (or that I missed). 

Because from what I have witnessed between them it would seem that Liana is reading their relationship wrong and that Xander does respect her and the way she plays the game.

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I am more than ever convinced the reason for all these extra advantages and twists is to encourage the type of tribal council we saw this week: one as chaotic as possible. It's something that's been happening with increasing frequency, and clearly Probst and the other producers love it. I, for one, do not. I hate it. I'm tired of it. It was fun the first time it happened but now it happens all the time. And it's ruining the game. Everyone is supposed to strategize and make their plan before TC, not during. So playing this game is no longer about strategy, it's about scrambling. Who's best at scrambling at the last minute and who has the best luck. That's what it's come down to now. And I'm sick of looking at Probst's smug-ass face grinning away while everyone runs around like chickens with their heads cut off, even narrating like it's a freaking immunity challenge. 

This post summarizes how I feel about these "live" TC.  The only difference is I have always hated them.

This does not have to do with any of the quoted posts, but I did not want to make another post.  I have to say Naseer continually makes me like him more and more each episode.  The guy just seems like such he has such a good nature personality to him.  He always seems to be smiling and laughing, it just makes me think he is probably such a nice guy.

 

 

[Primetimer]

Just posted: Primetimer's Joe Reid weighs in on the Xander of it all:

Quote

But then Xander started talking, and I'll fully admit that I thought he was screwing things up. Maybe it's the too-carefully-placed tuft of hair peeking out of his headband, or the surfer-doof manner of speaking he employs, but this episode saw me continue to assume Xander was an idiot, and he kept proving me wrong. First he told Danny of his plan to use his idol on Evvie, which seemed very dumb as it was allowing the other side to play around it. But Xander's plan to sow chaos on the other side actually worked, as Danny and his allies scrambled for backup targets, and since the only other targets were old Luvu members, it meant sacrificing one of their own. (I'm still kind of puzzled that Naseer wasn't made the sacrificial lamb; the only explanation I can come up with is that Danny and DeShawn are still really concerned about being outnumbered by the women, which remains very dumb.) Xander's play got the other side whispering Sydney's name, which allowed him and Evvie to pull Sydney into the Yase caucus.

More here:
https://www.primetimer.com/features/survivors-avalanche-of-advantages-pays-off-in-the-most-exciting-tribal-of-the-season

[LadyChatts]

Still coming down off the high that was TC tonight.  I'm actually wondering how much of the decision to play her advantage was Liana's.  With Xander's actions at camp saying he was going to play his idol for Evvie, I feel like he was trying to force her hand in burning her advantage.  However, it seemed like she was somewhat reluctant to go after him but Shan told her she had to.  They obviously had a plan b in Sydney, all they had to do was split the vote and Liana could have kept her advantage intact. 

I'm curious if anything comes of Deshawn's revelations to Xander about Evvie spilling everything to him.  

[Nashville]

A few notes:

• I find myself shocked to say I was actually proud of Xander tonight; he played that fakeout amazingly.  Prior to TC I was hoping that’s what Xander was shooting for, but I didn’t really expect it.
• Watching the smug self-satisfaction on Liana’s face replaced by a totally crestfallen expression when she realized Xander had TOTALLY played her? - and not only that, but thanks to Liana’s BMF-motivated bragging in her own THs she came off looking like one of the biggest buffoons in Survivor history?  These moments make life worth living.  🤣🤣🤣💀
• Normally I can’t stand them playing Musical Chairs Whisperfest at TC, but tonight I actually kinda enjoyed it when they all came off their blocks like Jiffy had fired a starter pistol.  😁
• Bye, Syd; y’all take care - but don’t expect any Christmas cards from Parvati any time real soon, ok?

Quick question: in the event of a tie vote, has the show ever made a definitive statement about whether or not idols and/or advantages can come into play in the second round of voting?

Edited November 4, 2021 by Nashville

[Fake Jan Brady]

18 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Quick question: in the event of a tie vote, has the show ever made a definitive statement about whether or not idols and/or advantages can come into play in the second round of voting?

I'm not sure but I think I may have heard Probst say something about how this is Season 41 and anything is possible...

[violet and green]

I feel like I need a cigarette after that tribal. So many ups and downs and twists. I don't like Evvie much but I'm glad she stayed and that Xander didn't waste his idol on Sydney of all people.

So funny seeing Liana's deflation and Shan outing herself as head girl.

The season really picked up with this episode. I even like Tiffany now.

[JudyObscure]

I guess Danny and I [and IMONREY] are almost the only ones who hated that whole thing.  It's one thing to have twists that  bring on a few unexpected changes, but it's another thing to move the goalposts in the middle of the game, and that's what the "change history" thing did. 

Why should Danny bust his gut during the challenges if his win is just going to be cancelled by a grinning Jeff? Why should anyone hunt for idols when the idol is as likely to screw them over as help them?  Yes it was an action packed episode but it would serve the producers right if the rest of the season was people strolling through challenges and lying around camp all day.

I hope Xander's parents are proud of him right now he's been great this whole season.

I hope Sydney's parents are seeing what happens when you confuse conceit with confidence and encourage it too much.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

I feel like I need a cigarette after that tribal. So many ups and downs and twists. I don't like Evvie much but I'm glad she stayed and that Xander didn't waste his idol on Sydney of all people.

So funny seeing Liana's deflation and Shan outing herself as head girl.

The season really picked up with this episode. I even like Tiffany now.

Yes…interesting how every time Jeff asked if they were done, it was Shan who declared they were and got annoyed when things continued. 

[Haleth]

Does anyone else think Heather reminds them of Jennifer Coolidge?  I'm afraid she'll grab the urn at TC and run, thinking it holds her mother's ashes.

I'm still shocked Erika smashed the hourglass.  I never thought she'd have the guts to do that but would rather show loyalty to the blue team.  Fortunately for her they seem to have forgiven her.  For now.  I don't know why she bothered doing a good turn for the other group then run right back to blue.

Too bad Evvy and Xander didn't start humming Shan's evil theme.

It's too bad Probst loves the chaos so much.  I really wish future seasons would forbid players from jumping up and whispering during TC.  The audience should be privy to all the machinations.

27 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

It's one thing to have twists that  bring on a few unexpected changes, but it's another thing to move the goalposts in the middle of the game, and that's what the "change history" thing did. 

Yeah, I kind of agree that it's not fair to tip the board and call it a win.  I can't blame Danny for being annoyed.

[ProfCrash]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It was entertaining, but it almost backfired, because Evvie was almost voted out anyway. They played it as well as they could have, I will acknowledge that. But at the end of the day this outcome was determined more by the producers and these myriad twists than anything the players could have done. As soon as they all start running around and whisper-scrambling it feels like the show has turned them into a bunch of monkeys dancing for our amusement while Jeff Probst sits there with his shit-eating grin. I don't like it.

 100% the entire thing was contrived by idols and advantages and Production manipulation but that is the game these players are playing. They don’t have a choice but to play in it and that is what they did. Xander got away with it because Sydney used her shot in the dark but his choice to not use the idol almost bit him in the ass. Hopefully that will remind them to be a bit more cautious in the future.

Xander is sitting on an advantage and an idol. Nasser has an idol. Shan has an advantage and and idol. 

I would prefer a straight game of Survivor without all of this but that is not what we have. I enjoyed watching Xander and crew manipulate Liana so perfectly. 

[Lantern7]

Over on Reality Blurred, Andy Dehnardt has referred to the current game as “Calvinball.” Me? I’m thinking this is like watching an episode of Yu-GI-Oh!, if the writers were on drugs. All of the drugs. Amphetamines, barbiturates, acid . . . everything. “I play the advantage card, Knowledge is Power! Xander, do you have an idol.” “No.” “It can’t be! You can’t lie to me!” “No, I made a fake idol. Nice try!” Cut to Probst, playing the Ego Stroke card over and over and friggin’ over.

I’ll post more later. At least Sydney knows she was being childish with the hate. Bonus for the others: she missed the jury.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

So we now seem to have a coalition of Survivors of color versus White Survivors. It seemed like there were barely any conversations between White survivors and Survivors of color during the live tribal.

It will be very interesting to see how things play out. Deciding to go against Blue Strong seems like a big mistake. But is it going to just be Shan/DeShawn/Danny/Liana/Erika/Naseer/Rickard voting as a bloc against Tiffany/Evvie/Xander/Heather one by one?

Is there anything that can get the players of color to break off and vote with the White players? My prediction was that because I don't see anyone voting to give Tiffany $1 million, maybe she will GOAT her way to the F3.

My prediction was that people would want to get Erika out ASAP. (i.e. in the next episode or two). But DeShawn made it sound like it was NBD. 

Random question: Danny talked about having played in big arenas before. Do the other players know that he is a former NFL player? Because again, at least putting myself in the shoes of a juror, I'd be reluctant to give someone who is (or should be) a millionaire yet another million. (Googling says his net worth is "only" about $1 million, and that his NFL days had him earn $3.65m).)

Heather voted with the Shan/Deshawn/etc. group, so I'm not sure why you're grouping her in with the Tiffany/Evvie/Xander group other than to support a POC vs. White narrative that I don't think is as cut and dried as that. I know the four African American players have openly stated (to us and each other, not the other players) that they are working together based on their race, but I don't think that whole alliance can be characterized as "a coalition of Survivors of color". Ricard, Naseer, and Erika (and Heather) seem to be part of it based on original tribal alliances more than anything. Erika in particular, but also Naseer could easily switch if they get wind of how extraneous their alliance views them. Deshawn seems pragmatic enough to switch if the need arises (e.g. he smells trouble with Shan), and I'm sure Ricard has his eyes open to all opportunities.

[BusyOctober]

Sydney’s goodbye TH was probably one of the most real ones over the years.  She didn’t try to come off as  faux humble, or fake grateful for the experience, or even pretend to be chagrined that she had been played.  Nope, Syd just let her true self shine.  Her immature, sour, bitter, entitled, teenage temper tantrum self.  Buh-bye, Sweetie. Personally , I am thankful you didn’t make the jury so I don’t need to see YOU anymore.

As for the rest of this episode, it’s really on for background noise while I scroll through various Primetimer forums.  I look up occasionally to see who’s winning a challenge or for some of the tribal shenanigans, but the days of me intently watching and eagerly anticipating alliances and backstabbing ended a long time ago.  I don’t even know the names of a third of these players, and we are at the merge.

I have paid enough attention to know I dislike Shan intensely, and I  will use the rewind button to rewatch many times when/if she faces her downfall.  I hope it is spectacular. 

[Gummo]

Oh, Survivor, all is forgiven! I too used to miss the days when remarks at Tribal could only be directed to Probst, but this was just too much fun. I disagree that last-minute scrambling precludes strategic play -- last-minute scrambling IS strategic play, of the most desperate kind. 

Xander, Xander, how I underestimated you! Well-played, sir, well-played. And all the more worth it to see Lianna's ego pop like the empty balloon it is.

Lianna:  "I've come into my own, I'm a bad-ass strong woman player" ... who does everything Shan tells me to do.

As for Shan, this episode just about killed any affection I had left for her. It seems the more wrong she is, the more sure of herself she is. That's a trait that bit her in the ass tonight, and will again, I bet.

Danny's bittercakes did not go  over well with me. This isn't a sporting event, this is Survivor, where everything is designed to play on your last nerve, including the comps, the advantages, the privation, Probst's needling, and yes, even pulling the rug out from under your wins, and then seeing how well you keep your cool and your eye on the prize. DeShawn gets it and props to him for that. I haven't liked him much up 'til now, but he's grown on me tremendously with his roll-with-it attitude.

My trajectory on Rickard seems to be the opposite of most -- I hated him in the beginning, but I'm liking him more as the game progresses.

Naseer seems to be slowly getting a clue as to his position with his old tribemates, if his huddling with the underdogs at TC means anything. I hope Erika wakes up soon or she will be gone, and she'll deserve it.

 

[KeithJ]

9 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

I also have to give props to Tiffany (who I haven't really liked that much so far) for following Xander's wishes and stating that the idol was not hers to play.

I had a bit of a problem with this.  If it was not her's to play, who's idol was it?  If she is holding it, it's her idol isn't it and she can do what she wants with it?  If they thought she was just "holding" Xander's idol, he technically still had an idol and it should have been surrendered.

[TaraS1]

I loved the smug look being wiped off Liana's face, and then her trying to act like it was no big deal that her big advantage turned into a spectacular flop.  You got got, dear.  Well done, Xander.

I was so bummed Ricard won immunity.  Something about him and that serene little smile he always has creeps me out.  (And count me in as hating the "live" tribals and the stupid grin on Jeff's face every time they happen.)

[mojoween]

I’m looking through Danny-colored glasses, but I can’t fault him for being pissed.  He’s a professional athlete whose entire job was wins and losses.  It would be like Roger Goodell coming in after the final gun during the Super Bowl and saying “sorry Bill Belichick smashed an hourglass in the locker room, even though the Bears scored 49 and the Patriots 3, the Patriots are actually the winners”.

One thing with TC I am still confused about is Liana knew that Xander knew she had the steal.  So why would she think he would have shown her that he had an idol, knowing that she could then take it?  She should have course-corrected and not used it right then because Xander showing the idol had to have been hinky.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by mojoween

[violet and green]

 

10 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

This is where Australian Survivor is better, IMO.  They manage to blindside people and surprise the audience, and you never see people scrambling like crazy and having full blown conferences in the middle of tribal.

I might be remembering this wrongly, but from memory it was on the first season of the more recent Australian Survivor (2016) that the first episode of everyone getting up and talking to each other happened at a tribal - mainly because it was a season where a large percentage of the cast had never even watched Survivor, so they didn't know you weren't supposed to do that sort of thing.

[Guest]

Just now, mojoween said:

One thing with TC I am still confused about is Liana knew that Xander knew she had the steal.  So why would she think he would have shown her that he had an idol, knowing that she could then take it?  She should have course-corrected and not used it right then because Xander showing the idol had to have been hinky.

Good question. Perhaps she was blinded by her need to make a Big Move/show up Xander. Once she got it in her head that she was going to do this awesome thing and show that silly Xander that he was underestimating her, she just couldn't NOT do it. Maybe she viewed him showing his idol at TC as extreme hubris on his part, like he thought that by being so open, she wouldn't dare to use her advantage. And so she relished the chance to put him in his place. Except, whoops.

I highly doubt this is the case, but I'm working with a fun little theory that Shan blabbed about Liana having an advantage to Tiffany on purpose and encouraged Liana to use it as soon as possible, because she wanted it flushed out. No one can have an advantage except Shan!

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I would prefer a straight game of Survivor without all of this but that is not what we have. 

I know a lot of people fall into this camp, but I'm the opposite. I loved all the chaos at tribal, all the scrambling and whispering. 

I reflected last night that when I started watching Survivor my children were young. Now they're grownups. If I had had to watch straight, classic Survivor all these years, I would be bored witless by now, especially as the players learn quickly what to expect and what strategies to use. The constant surprises keep the players on their toes, and me awake. 

That said, I don't like the surprises to be so convoluted that I can't figure them out for three episodes. This season has verged on that a couple of times. But otherwise, bring on the chaos! (And some blindfold challenges please.) 

[Gummo]

7 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

If I had had to watch straight, classic Survivor all these years, I would be bored witless by now, especially as the players learn quickly what to expect and what strategies to use.

I agree - the only way a season of "classic" Survivor would work now is if none of the contestants had ever seen Survivor.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, tracyscott76 said:

Heather voted with the Shan/Deshawn/etc. group, so I'm not sure why you're grouping her in with the Tiffany/Evvie/Xander group other than to support a POC vs. White narrative that I don't think is as cut and dried as that. I know the four African American players have openly stated (to us and each other, not the other players) that they are working together based on their race, but I don't think that whole alliance can be characterized as "a coalition of Survivors of color". Ricard, Naseer, and Erika (and Heather) seem to be part of it based on original tribal alliances more than anything. Erika in particular, but also Naseer could easily switch if they get wind of how extraneous their alliance views them. Deshawn seems pragmatic enough to switch if the need arises (e.g. he smells trouble with Shan), and I'm sure Ricard has his eyes open to all opportunities.

There's a Heather?

Seriously, I made a mistake about who Heather voted for. No conspiracy.

The thing is, players don't have to openly state "we are working together as ________" to be working together as  ________. They don't even have to be doing it consciously.

The White players did not seem to consider voting Sydney, even though she was an easy decision and they could probably have gotten every non-Sydney player on board. Does that mean they wanted to protect Sydney because she is white? No. Could that have been a factor? Possibly. 

We didn't see the anti-DeShawn faction try to pull over Erika or Naseer (at least I don't think we did. I could have missed it). Maybe they did that and it was left on the editing floor. Was that because they thought that Erika and Naseer were too tight with DeShawn based on tribal alliances? There certainly were ways to appeal to Erika about potential votes -- you were on the bottom of Blue so you don't owe them anything, Danny and DeShawn aren't going to forgive you for turning back time, Danny and DeShawn are big physical/social threats. Was that bad gameplay on the anti-DeShawn faction? Or did they not try to pull over votes from those contestants of color for some other reason? 

It is socially acceptable for men to say, "We are working together as men" and for women to openly say "We are working together as women" It's more problematic for some for there to have been the open declaration of "We're working together as Black people," and I'm sure it would be even more problematic for there to be an open declaration of "We're working together as White people." But then again, generally up until this season, there has not been a situation where White players might have felt threatened as White players.

The fact that anyone in the voting coalition could switch doesn't mean that it isn't a voting coalition of every person of color plus Heather. It's a question of how tight the coalition is and how successful it will be. 

Right now, I would say there's a huge incentive for the coalition of color to boot Evvie and Xander ASAP. I don't see any jury awarding Tiffany a million and unless Heather does something, her either. So it may be that they get to stay deeper than they should. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

33 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I’m looking through Danny-colored glasses, but I can’t fault him for being pissed.  He’s a professional athlete whose entire job was wins and losses.  It would be like Roger Goodall coming in after the final gun during the Super Bowl and saying “sorry Bill Belichick smashed an hourglass in the locker room, even though the Bears scored 49 and the Patriots 3, the Patriots are actually the winners”.

One thing with TC I am still confused about is Liana knew that Xander knew she had the steal.  So why would she think he would have shown her that he had an idol, knowing that she could then take it?  She should have course-corrected and not used it right then because Xander showing the idol had to have been hinky.  

Bless you for concocting a hypothetical where the Bears' involvement in the Super Bowl was more than watching it from the comfort of their various homes. :)

The Knowledge Is Power advantage could only be used at Tribal. So that gave Xander time to give the Idol to Tiffany and use a fake Idol that he created. It was believable that he might as well give up the ghost, because literally everyone did know that Xander had an idol due to either noticing that he kept saying his phrase that pays, or just the Survivor grapevine. And when he showed the parchment that the idol came in and an idol looking thing, that sold the notion that he was resigning himself to the inevitable.

I'm guessing most viewers weren't looking closely enough to be like, "Wait a minute, it's a FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!" [insert Star Trek: DS9 meme here] on first viewing. For anyone who picked up on that, kudos!

[watch2much]

45 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I’m looking through Danny-colored glasses, but I can’t fault him for being pissed.  He’s a professional athlete whose entire job was wins and losses.  It would be like Roger Goodall coming in after the final gun during the Super Bowl and saying “sorry Bill Belichick smashed an hourglass in the locker room, even though the Bears scored 49 and the Patriots 3, the Patriots are actually the winners”.

One thing with TC I am still confused about is Liana knew that Xander knew she had the steal.  So why would she think he would have shown her that he had an idol, knowing that she could then take it?  She should have course-corrected and not used it right then because Xander showing the idol had to have been hinky.  

I think Liana was still telling Evie, Tiffany, and Xander that she was loyal to them.  Evie called her out after she tried to get the idol for the betrayed loyalty and she said she was just playing Survivor re: backstabbing.

I think  it would have been way more interesting if they didn't allow TC strategizing and they all were forced to vote. 

[peachmangosteen]

On 11/3/2021 at 9:24 PM, momlyd said:

Does anyone else think there may be a little rift between Xander and Evvie now? He seemed genuinely surprised at Deshawn blabbing on her and the hug at the end looked perfunctory. That will be interesting to keep an eye on..

I think that was more acting on their part tbh. Xander said in a confessional that everyone knew he had an idol. I also figured Evvie must have told him about the Voce boot since he didn't seem surprised when it happened but we never got any indication after the fact if he knew or not so it's hard to say whether he knew about either. But with the fact that those 2 are apparently super tight, which we honestly haven't been shown, I figure he already knew about DeShawn knowing. But even if he didn't, I don't think it will make much difference now. 

I am obsessed with the Evvie/Xander/Tiffany trio and I would love to see them somehow make it to the end. They have a really hard battle though. Xander has now proven himself to be a huge threat, they obviously think Evvie is super smart, and those 3 just showed everyone they are thick as thieves. I don't see a way in which they aren't gone very quickly now. But I hope I'm wrong!

I'm completely over Danny. He's still hot as hell though.

[momlyd]

59 minutes ago, mojoween said:

One thing with TC I am still confused about is Liana knew that Xander knew she had the steal.  So why would she think he would have shown her that he had an idol, knowing that she could then take it?  She should have course-corrected and not used it right then because Xander showing the idol had to have been hinky.  

She was drunk on power.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The thing is, players don't have to openly state "we are working together as ________" to be working together as  ________. They don't even have to be doing it consciously.

I just feel that if we don't know that, or even only suspect that they're doing it unconsciously, it's not fair or accurate to sum up the season as "a coalition of Survivors of color versus White Survivors". That may be the de facto situation at the moment, but using the word "coalition" implies an intentional act, and that this is the only reason the players are doing what they are doing. In my view, it's an oversimplification that ignores the other factors and motives that are clearly there. And maybe lumping in Heather as voting with the other White players in your analysis was a simple mistake, but it really hurts the argument.

Also, I hate to beat the "we don't see everything" drum, but I'd be willing to bet that Yellow spent some time trying to get Erika and Naseer on board. They certainly did so with Naseer during the TC Scramble.

[momlyd]

11 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

The way that advantage was so carefully worded made me think from the beginning that it was meant to fail.  It was almost entirely metaphorical small print. 

Agreed. As they were making plans and re-reading the instructions, I almost said out loud "Read the fine print!" because I wondered if giving the idol to another person would nullify the advantage or if the advantage followed the idol and it would not matter who was holding it. I would have asked.

 

[blackwing]

Great episode.  I would have preferred if someone from Deshawn's group had gone home, but I didn't care for Sydney ("they all jus' jealous, they'll vote for me because it's me") so I was fine with the result.  If I were Xander I would definitely have played the Idol for Evvie, you never know what will happen (they didn't know if Deshawn would use his extra vote) and he should have made sure his #1 ally was safe.  As it is, now he will just be a target next time.

Things that made absolutely no sense to me:

1.  Erika.  She knew she was on the bottom of the blue tribe.  She turned back time to give herself immunity from the vote, and put the side that was mostly blue at risk.  Then she made absolutely no effort to talk to Xander and his team to get herself into a better position.  She could have brought Heather over with her.  But I guess she and Heather are content to be the bottom of the blues?  I dislike players like this... why bother to apply for Survivor if you aren't even going to play the game?  She said she was "taking control of her own game" or something like that when she smashed the hourglass.  But then proceeded to do absolutely nothing.

2.  Sydney.  Sydney's name was thrown out there by Deshawn after somebody told someone (I forget who) that Deshawn was targeted.  Why would they give that information?  Xander's team should have said they were all voting for Sydney, have blue all vote for Evvie, play the Idol for Evvie, and blindside Deshawn.  Then of course Sydney goes crawling over to Xander's side and begs for the Idol, even though they have no reason to want to give it to her.

3.  Naseer.  Why was Naseer huddling with Xander's side?  He was never with them, so why was he talking with them and why was he giving them information?  Wasn't he the one that told Tiffany who blue was voting for, and that's why Deshawn changed it up and decided to split the vote between Evvie and Sydney?  Why would Blue even allow him in their fold after that.

 

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I am more than ever convinced the reason for all these extra advantages and twists is to encourage the type of tribal council we saw this week: one as chaotic as possible. It's something that's been happening with increasing frequency, and clearly Probst and the other producers love it. I, for one, do not. I hate it. I'm tired of it. It was fun the first time it happened but now it happens all the time. And it's ruining the game. Everyone is supposed to strategize and make their plan before TC, not during. So playing this game is no longer about strategy, it's about scrambling. Who's best at scrambling at the last minute and who has the best luck. That's what it's come down to now. And I'm sick of looking at Probst's smug-ass face grinning away while everyone runs around like chickens with their heads cut off, even narrating like it's a freaking immunity challenge. 

Yep.  Jeffy has stated in the past that he loves when people whisper and talk to each other at tribal, he thinks it is exciting and loves the last minute scrambling.  "THIS is what Survivor is all about."  I fully agree with you that I am sick of seeing him grinning and acting like "this is so shocking and amazing" while he orgasms into his pants.  Then scours the internetz the next day looking for people commenting on how much they "LOVED" the tribal.

Strategizing should happen before tribal.  If he truly wants "unexpected" and "shocking", nothing would be more chaotic than people who realise their plan is falling apart, but unable to communicate with each other, and thus, if they hadn't come up with alternatives before, too bad.  Vote with your gut.  I would make a new rule.  If you get up from your stool, you lose your vote.  And put the stools far enough apart that they can't lean over and whisper directly into someone's ear.

11 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Xander, Evvie, and Tiffany played that perfectly. They almost got too cute. I wonder if Evvie remembered that Deshawn had an extra vote because that could have bit them in the ass. From the showing Shan the idol in his possession. To having a premade fake idol. To handing the idol off to Tiffany but keeping the idol note. It was amazing. And it almost failed but still awesome. 

Erika played it nicely. She kept herself safe and then worked with the numbers that she has. I doubt she sees herself as part of the group but at least she is less of a target then Xander, Evvie, and Tiffany. 

And Blue is down one player, which is better for Yellow and Green.

I don't think Erika played it nicely at all.  She smashed the glass to keep herself safe but then didn't seem to do anything at all other than crawl back to the people that wanted to dump her in the first place.  Watching these episodes at home, I wonder if she feels like a fool for not realising that her name was on the block already several times.

I don't think Ricard knows about the Black Alliance so he may be in for a rude awakening when Shan sides with them instead of him.  Shan and Lianna already did their jump for joy at their solid four person alliance going to the end.

 

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

I’m looking through Danny-colored glasses, but I can’t fault him for being pissed.  He’s a professional athlete whose entire job was wins and losses.  It would be like Roger Goodall coming in after the final gun during the Super Bowl and saying “sorry Bill Belichick smashed an hourglass in the locker room, even though the Bears scored 49 and the Patriots 3, the Patriots are actually the winners”.

One thing with TC I am still confused about is Liana knew that Xander knew she had the steal.  So why would she think he would have shown her that he had an idol, knowing that she could then take it?  She should have course-corrected and not used it right then because Xander showing the idol had to have been hinky.  

Except Roger Goodall didn't say at the start of the game that "this is a season where anything can happen, so don't get too comfortable".  At least Danny got the feast.  But given that this season has seen new extra votes and steal-a-votes and steal-an-Idol advantages being granted, I don't think he has any right to be upset that the game isn't exactly the same as what he is used to.

I think she was counting on the fact that Xander seems like a dumb box of hair who didn't really know what he was doing.  Plus, maybe she thought he didn't know exactly how it worked.  Lianna and Shan had to re-read the paper to understand how it worked.  Even if Lianna suspected he was giving the Idol to someone else, the problem is that she wouldn't know whether he had given it to Evvie or Tiffany.  And maybe she thought he was being so overconfident in showing it to her.  The things that Xander and Evvie said definitely made it sound more convincing that either they forgot she had that advantage or that they didn't think she would use it or that they didn't understand how it worked.

[laurakaye]

13 hours ago, dizzyd said:

I hope the steal advantage is done and doesn’t come back. I’ll only be happy when Shan is blindsided out. 

She seems to be getting a strong Kellyn from Ghost Island edit.  I didn't like Kellyn, and I'm not a Shan fan either.  They're portrayed as a strong narrator/leader who thinks they have the game on lock and everyone else is just there to help them get to the end, so it's lovely when they fall.

 

2 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I’ll post more later. At least Sydney knows she was being childish with the hate. Bonus for the others: she missed the jury.

Sad for the audience, though...I suspect we would've gotten eye rolls and facial expressions from Sydney that rivaled the great Eliza Orlins.

 

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

One thing with TC I am still confused about is Liana knew that Xander knew she had the steal.  So why would she think he would have shown her that he had an idol, knowing that she could then take it?  She should have course-corrected and not used it right then because Xander showing the idol had to have been hinky.  

That really was beautiful.  I was exclaiming loudly to my television that Xander!  You should give the idol to Tiffany!  Dude, give it to Tiffany!  They would never suspect Tiffany!!  Why didn't you - ohhhhhh, not only did you give it to Tiffany, you made a fake idol to swing around at TC like a boss.  Sorry, Xander, for calling you a moron in my head.  Now I want you to win the whole thing.

During Probst's Live Tribal Council Extravaganza, did Heather ever get up from her perch one time to talk to anyone, at all?  That's her name, right?

Next week, we'd better see the tribe that didn't get a feast getting something to eat.  That irks me.

[Nashville]

33 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Sad for the audience, though...I suspect we would've gotten eye rolls and facial expressions from Sydney that rivaled the great Eliza Orlins.

Actually, I consider that a bonus for the audience; every time we were treated to Yet Another display of Eliza’s overblown histrionics, I wanted to hit her with a sufficiently large stick.

[Guest]

Just now, Nashville said:

31 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Sad for the audience, though...I suspect we would've gotten eye rolls and facial expressions from Sydney that rivaled the great Eliza Orlins.

Actually, I consider that a bonus for the audience; every time we were treated to Yet Another display of Eliza’s overblown histrionics, I wanted to hit her with a sufficiently large stick.

I used to like Eliza's displays, but have come to see them as put-ons done for attention. Any eyerolls or expressions Sydney would have given from the jury box would probably have been much more authentic, since she clearly and authentically hates everyone XD

On a totally unrelated note, when Ricard won the individual immunity challenge and Jeff was giving him the necklace and going through his usual "Ricard is immune from the vote at tribal council!" spiel, I wanted Ricard to turn to him and say "Can I have that in writing?"

[LizBug]

Now that this week's episode is history, I'm looking forward to next week.  Alliance lines should be more clear (hopefully) and everyone will be participating in the Immunity Challenge.

[blackwing]

I'm curious to learn (hopefully next week) if Ricard, Erika or Naseer (I would say Heather but she appears to be both deaf and mute) are at all suspicious at how effortlessly Lianna became completely and solidly a member of the Blue alliance.  She was on the yellow tribe and supposedly super close with Evvie and Tiffany, to the point where they talked about a women's alliance.  Then the Merge, and she instantly drops them and is already a solid member of the other side.  Shouldn't others be asking 1) why and 2) how?  

Everyone knows that Lianna and Shan went off on a Hilltop Hike together.  Shouldn't people be suspicious that the two of them are instantly together?  And why would Shan and Ricard be so instantly welcomed into the Blue tribe?  Why weren't we shown scenes of Yellow trying to talk with Ricard and Shan about Green and Yellow banding together against Blue, and trying to get Erika and Heather with them?

Perhaps these talks happened and didn't make it onto the air.  If so, I think the presentation is strange to not even show Yellow making any attempts.  It's like everyone has instantly accepted that Lianna left Yellow.

I am curious as to how long it will take before someone suspects that there is a Black Alliance.  From the way Lianna was talking to Shan at tribal, it's very evident that these two are tight.  And very evident that Danny and Deshawn are a pair.  I would say that the chief goal next round is to vote out one of Danny/Deshawn or Lianna/Shan.  If Erika, Ricard and Naseer don't realise that, then they deserve to lose.  I think Ricard is probably the only hope to see that something is going on.  Erika is a blind idiot.  Naseer is just happy to be there and happy that no one is mentioning his name.

[iMonrey]

Quote

100% the entire thing was contrived by idols and advantages and Production manipulation but that is the game these players are playing.

As a general rule, I think that people who go on reality shows should know what they're signing up for and that anything might happen to them. Twists, turns, and surprises are all part of the game. But Survivor has been the gold standard that started the reality craze, and more people watch this show than a lot of the lesser knock-offs. Imagine being a lifelong fan and student of the show and finally you get your dream come true when you're picked to be on it, only to be screwed over by some dumb new twist you had no way of predicting. 

I mean . . . I don't even like any of the people who got screwed over by the Turn Back Time thing, and yet I still feel like that was unfair. I also think that making Survivor more like Big Brother ("Expect the unexpected!") is not an improvement. I always thought this show was better than that. It's not, anymore.

[Birnam Wood]

15 hours ago, UGAmp said:

Heather continues to have the purpliest edit this show has ever had. I’m not even 100% sure that’s her name, that’s how invisible she is. 

Right? I'm wondering if, at some point, she goes mad and tries to brain Probst with a machete or something because it otherwise seems like she's just not there 90% of the time. Have they even shown her voting?

[seacliffsal]

Finally an episode that contained pay-offs for the many, many, many (to infinity) minutes previously focused solely on the advantages (or scenes from home) and not the players or strategies.  First my personal pet peeve: I really don't like looking at feet so the immunity challenge was gross in my opinion (more so than the eating weird food, etc.); however, I will acknowledge that it required quite a different skill set from other challenges (I so would be still working on the bottom row even after the filming of the season was finished).

I, too, was totally discounted Xander until the beauty of the sting was realized.  Liana really discounted her previous tribe mates (and how fake was she when she went to fact find what they were thinking before tribal).  I really enjoy it when people who think they are so superior to others have a bit of a downfall (and wow did she ever [even to not understanding the game play and Shan had to explain it to her during tribal).  And Shan really gave away her view of herself when she thought she was the determiner of when the tribal council strategizing was over and they should vote (and I loved that Danny immediately got up to talk some more).  I actually think that at some point Danny and Deshawn will be the ones to dethrone Shan once they realize that she is trying to dictate to the rest of the alliance and they won't have time or patience for that.  It will also be interesting to see what Danny decides about keeping males in the game versus working with Shan and Liana (just because someone tells you they are allied with you doesn't mean they are).  Ricard could also be a factor here as he has already seen Shan's control and manipulation.

I had a good laugh when Erika was all "I'm a strong woman and player" and then fell into her previous role of being at the bottom of her alliance.  Hopefully Naseer will understand that he is at the bottom and will find a way out of the position (and potentially with a new alliance).

So much for Evvie's all-women alliance...it will be interesting to watch Evvie, Xander, and Tiffany.  They may be a pretty savvy alliance (from what we saw in this episode) and be able to get out of the bottom.

Oh, and if Jeff really wants a chaotic tribal council, he should forbid the whispering and strategizing  before voting.  If they had to just vote spur of the moment because of the idol and destruction of Liana's advantage I think there would have been utter chaos at the result of the vote that would really carry through for a while.

[treeofdreams]

I keep losing track of alliances.  Who was Sydney in an alliance with?

And I missed her speech after being voted off.  What did she say?

Thanks to anyone who will fill me in...

[blackwing]

15 minutes ago, treeofdreams said:

I keep losing track of alliances.  Who was Sydney in an alliance with?

And I missed her speech after being voted off.  What did she say?

Thanks to anyone who will fill me in...

I think she was in a solid three person alliance with Danny and Deshawn, until she wasn't.  She was then in the extended Blue tribe alliance, until she wasn't.  She was given up by Deshawn because they were afraid that Evvie would have an Idol or have an Idol played for her.  Sydney was told about this and then she panicked and appeared to side with Xander's tribe.  She asked Xander for his Idol, even though she hadn't really shown she was with them.  And in fact, we don't even know if she would have in fact voted with Xander's side since she gave up her vote.

Her final words, she was very bitter and upset.  And she said something about how she is glad she is not on the jury because she doesn't want to see any of these people ever again.

[Apocalypso]

Quote

Plus, you could see who was voting with whom, your alliances are totally outed.  

This was what I thought was the important point about all the TC whispering.  It did go awfully fast, I mean I personally couldn't keep track of who all conferred with whom in what order, but for the actual contestants, familiar with everyone, it should have been easier to evaluate these interactions and get vital information.  I think some were caught off guard by events and might have betrayed their relationships - if the right people noticed.

[Chicago Redshirt]

28 minutes ago, treeofdreams said:

I keep losing track of alliances.  Who was Sydney in an alliance with?

And I missed her speech after being voted off.  What did she say?

Thanks to anyone who will fill me in...

It's unclear to me who Sydney was in an alliance with before the events of this episode. As a member of the Blue tribe, I guess kinda sorta everyone there but Erika? As of this episode it seemed like she sided with Xander/Evvie/Tiffany.

Basically she says she could have not gone for the shot-in-the-dark advantage and things could have turned out differently, but that it shows her instincts were right. And she's glad that she's not on the jury because she won't have to see any of their stupid faces again and her life is a gazillion times better than theirs anyway, even if it's childish of her to say so.

Thinking about it, the shot-in-the-dark was a pretty bad play on her part. 

In two of the most likely scenarios, she's not at risk (the majority outright votes for Evvie and no idol is played, the majority votes for Evvie, an idol is played to save her, and Tiffany/Xander/Evvie and her vote DeShawn). Even in this split vote scenario, she was at risk was because DeShawn used an extra vote and she gave up hers. Had she voted for Evvie, Evvie would have gone 5-4-2 in the split, as it turned out. If she had voted DeShawn, it would have been a 4-4-4 tie, and presumably Evvie would be gone on revote. It would have been interesting on a revote if that further advantages/idols could have been played.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[TVMovieBuff]

That was some mighty good acting by Xander and Tiffany. Evvie is too quick to crum the play. She has no poker face.I hope they don't put Evvie in a position where she really have to be cool, she can't seem to do it.

[HurricaneVal]

I did not know Xander had that in him.  That was beautifully strategized and beautifully played.  Is he playing a long con?  Is his surfer-doof persona a carefully maintained construction?  Or is he both a brilliant strategist/actor and a surfer-doof?  That whole Xander/Evvie/TIffany/Liana byplay was pure gold.  This is the payoff for drowning in idols and advantages.  Unfortunately, I think that sort of payoff is rare, so they can stop now.

I do like a spirited tribal council, but I like my spirit more organized so I can follow what's going on.  I don't think they should be allowed to leave their seats, unless given permission by Jeffy, and they can negotiate a seat swap with someone sitting next to the person they want to secretly whisper to.  I think that would add an interesting dimension to the game.  But alas, what we get is a bunch of desperate milling around.  At least production made a decent effort at captioning some of the whispering.  That made it a little better.  They need to do a better job of it, get more mics on the melee and work out the dialogue.  It isn't like Survivor is aired live, they've got time to sort it out.

I used to get extremely frustrated with all the whispering and moving around at TC when it started a couple of seasons ago.  Then I realized that when they do that, it all looks like they're making out with each other.  SO if you think about it as foreplay to the worlds worst orgy, it becomes really amusing rather than frustrating.

I'm keeping my eye on Xander from now on.  The boy's got something....

[Hera]

4 hours ago, KeithJ said:

I had a bit of a problem with this.  If it was not her's to play, who's idol was it?  If she is holding it, it's her idol isn't it and she can do what she wants with it?  If they thought she was just "holding" Xander's idol, he technically still had an idol and it should have been surrendered.

My understanding is that according to the rules of the game, it was technically Tiffany's because Xander gave it to her. She could play it or not as she wanted. However, Xander and Tiffany had a separate agreement that even though it was in Tiffany's possession for tribal council, she wouldn't do anything with it without Xander's approval (and probably that she will return it to Xander afterward, even though we didn't see that explicitly). This agreement was between them and not enforceable by the producers, but was what Tiffany was referencing when she said, "It's not mine to play." Even though she was free to renege on any part of her deal with Xander, she was smart not to, because 1) she looks more trustworthy (not just to her alliance, but to everyone who saw that move) by sticking to it, and 2) it meant that if Evvie had gone home it would have been Xander's fault for not instructing Tiffany to play the idol rather than Tiffany's fault for not making the correct call.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Hera

[ByaNose]

So I have read a few of Sydney’s exit interviews. She’s sounds like a barrel of laughs. Yikes! She in the vile lane like Corrine. I guess if you’re in to that type of person you’ll love her. If not, (like me) not so much. LOL!!!! I I know they are good and bad people. I just don’t get people like her. She owns it which is good I guess but why would anyone want to openly want to be like that. I guess I’m conflicted. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by ByaNose

[30 Helens]

3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

 If I had had to watch straight, classic Survivor all these years, I would be bored witless by now, especially as the players learn quickly what to expect and what strategies to use. The constant surprises keep the players on their toes, and me awake. 

I’m just the opposite. It never got old to me because each season had a unique group of people with their own ideas and strategies. It was always fun to see people who came in thinking they had it all figured out get blindsided by their own hubris. It was fun watching people improve or maintain their positions by making clever moves and adapting their strategies on the fly. It was never fun watching good gameplay become pointless because of too many idols. (Yes, I’m still mad about Cirie.) Old Survivor was about people playing the game. New Survivor is about the game playing the people. And while I see the appeal of making things new and shiny, I don’t think the game was in need of fixing.

But I’ll stop ranting and try to learn to love the new Survivor, because that horse has left the barn. And I think I see some kids on my lawn.

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I am obsessed with the Evvie/Xander/Tiffany trio and I would love to see them somehow make it to the end. They have a really hard battle though. Xander has now proven himself to be a huge threat, they obviously think Evvie is super smart, and those 3 just showed everyone they are thick as thieves. I don't see a way in which they aren't gone very quickly now. But I hope I'm wrong!

Me too. Too bad Xander doesn’t have his dumb guy act to hide behind any more, because it was really working for him. But these three are clever enough that I think they can recruit some others to their side. I need them to stick around because they are by far the most interesting players right now. And also so they can battle the dark forces of Shan and Rickard, because who else is gonna do it? 

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Actually, I consider that a bonus for the audience; every time we were treated to Yet Another display of Eliza’s overblown histrionics, I wanted to hit her with a sufficiently large stick.

Would that be a f*****g stick? That’s actually a fake idol?

[treeofdreams]

Thanks to those who answered my questions.  No wonder I was confused!!

[KittyMom4]

5 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

That was some mighty good acting by Xander and Tiffany. Evvie is too quick to crum the play. She has no poker face.I hope they don't put Evvie in a position where she really have to be cool, she can't seem to do it.

I wanted Xander to tell Evvie to sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.  Her begging, pleading and whimpering was annoying. I was hoping they would vote her off, she of the "all women alliance" who wanted Xander off as quickly as possible and now she wants him to protect her?? I'm glad he didn't waste an idol on her. 

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I don't think Erika played it nicely at all.  She smashed the glass to keep herself safe but then didn't seem to do anything at all other than crawl back to the people that wanted to dump her in the first place.  Watching these episodes at home, I wonder if she feels like a fool for not realising that her name was on the block already several times.

You summed up what I was thinking. All her talk of being a strong player and she just went right back to waiting for someone to tell her how to vote. I was hoping she'd come out and say "I did rock paper scissors to decide if I should smash the hourglass", it would have been icing on the cake to see their faces. 

6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Why should Danny bust his gut during the challenges if his win is just going to be cancelled by a grinning Jeff?

He got a meal. I'm glad he had to finally play the game, that team has had it easy. 

4 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Sydney’s goodbye TH was probably one of the most real ones over the years.  She didn’t try to come off as  faux humble, or fake grateful for the experience, or even pretend to be chagrined that she had been played.  Nope, Syd just let her true self shine.  Her immature, sour, bitter, entitled, teenage temper tantrum self.  Buh-bye, Sweetie. Personally , I am thankful you didn’t make the jury so I don’t need to see YOU anymore.

Lol! All that was missing was a door slam!! I'm not sorry to see her gone, she had zero strategic skills, zero social game, zero charisma. She thought she could just smile at the camera and tell the audience how awesome she was. Sorry sweetie, this isn't your bedroom mirror, you have to actually DO something. 

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, BK1978 said:

Also, the way in which Shan sort of led the conversation at TC should have clued Erika in to the fact that she just slipped even further down the ladder of the alliance.  If it was me and I saw a player who came from a tribe of two all of a sudden being one of the driving forces in the conversation I would have to be internally question what the hell is going on.

 

That was what I loved about Cody's exit from Big Brother (Was it season 19 or 18?).  He got voted out, got up walked on top of the table and ignored everyone who had treated him like crap for the past however long it was that he was there.

Exactly and Liana seemed so smug before Xander blindsided her.  I will be perfectly honest, I did not care for Xander one way or the other prior to tonight, but I like him now.

What I am still wondering is why Liana seems to hate Xander so much.  Is there something we the audience were never shown?  Or was there something I missed.  Because even in tonight's episode she said something along the lines of Xander not respecting her game.  Then there was a confessional from Xander where he said he was a shark right out in the open while she was a shark you could not see. 

I took that to mean that he does respect her game and sees her for how good she is.  Also, in prior episodes it seemed like Xander always wanted to work with her, while she was the one who wanted nothing to do with him.   But the way she talks about their relationship makes it seem like the opposite.  I really would like to know if something happened between them that we are not privy to (or that I missed). 

Because from what I have witnessed between them it would seem that Liana is reading their relationship wrong and that Xander does respect her and the way she plays the game.

This post summarizes how I feel about these "live" TC.  The only difference is I have always hated them.

This does not have to do with any of the quoted posts, but I did not want to make another post.  I have to say Naseer continually makes me like him more and more each episode.  The guy just seems like such he has such a good nature personality to him.  He always seems to be smiling and laughing, it just makes me think he is probably such a nice guy.

 

 

Word! Love naseer. Do not loke the tribal council bs. Let them suffer the consequences of their choice and dont allow them to speak !!

[KittyMom4]

Am I the only one who, when the camera caught a glimpse of Heather at tribal, said, with a Ron Weasley astonishment, "when did you get here??"

Edited November 4, 2021 by BexKeps