TV Tropes: Love 'em or Loathe 'em

[legaleagle53]

On 4/16/2018 at 6:53 AM, Shannon L. said:

When a woman, who throughout a series, has never shown any interest in women, suddenly, for whatever reason, finds herself attracted to one, then is suddenly in a romantic, sexual relationship with her.  In my eyes, it just adds fuel for those who think being LGTB is a choice. *

*I'm not gay, so if someone who is thinks that I'm over reacting and can explain why it's no big deal, I'll gladly listen and reconsider my thoughts on it. 

You're not. I AM gay, and I've been complaining about this very trope for years (Supergirl, I'm looking at you!).

[ABay]

I mostly resent that the Suddenly Bi trope almost always applies to women and very rarely to men.

[meep.meep]

Unless they are at an English boarding school.....

[SVNBob]

4 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Unless they are at an English boarding school.....

Or an American prison.

[SmithW6079]

On 4/24/2018 at 9:20 PM, ABay said:

I mostly resent that the Suddenly Bi trope almost always applies to women and very rarely to men.

 

15 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Unless they are at an English boarding school.....

 

10 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Or an American prison.

If it gets Chris Meloni naked on my TV screen, I can live with it. 

I hate the trope of "the wife can't get pregnant so they adopt a child and then the wife announces she's pregnant." 

[legaleagle53]

38 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

I hate the trope of "the wife can't get pregnant so they adopt a child and then the wife announces she's pregnant." 

Except that that one actually does occur in real life.  I've known a couple of couples for whom that's happened -- they pretty much give up on having biological children, adopt, and then bam -- suddenly the wife gets pregnant because they stopped trying so hard.  It almost happened to my aunt and uncle, in fact, although they hadn't gotten to the point of adopting yet.  They had simply given up on having a biological child, when lo and behold, my aunt soon afterwards got pregnant and gave birth to her only child -- a true miracle baby!

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Except that that one actually does occur in real life.  I've known a couple of couples for whom that's happened -- they pretty much give up on having biological children, adopt, and then bam -- suddenly the wife gets pregnant because they stopped trying so hard. 

I've known two families like this. I went to school with the kids of one family and worked with a woman who this happened to.

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I hate the trope of "the wife can't get pregnant so they adopt a child and then the wife announces she's pregnant." 

This has happened to (counting on my fingers) four couples I know in the last 4 years, so at least it's a realistic trope.

However, I have to agree that I'm not a fan of it on TV.  It just seems like lazy writing, especially since my one of my biggest pet peeve (is this a trope?) is when a character is pregnant ONLY because the actress playing her is pregnant--and that seems to be the case in these "surprise" baby plots.

[ChromaKelly]

The scene opening to a wedding, making one think it's the main characters, but it's really the main characters in attendance of a minor character's wedding.

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

The scene opening to a wedding, making one think it's the main characters, but it's really the main characters in attendance of a minor character's wedding.

Somewhat related: When a couple is set to get married, calls it off at the very, very last minute, and then another couple sort of co-opts the wedding for themselves.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

This has happened to (counting on my fingers) four couples I know in the last 4 years, so at least it's a realistic trope.

However, I have to agree that I'm not a fan of it on TV.  It just seems like lazy writing, especially since my one of my biggest pet peeve (is this a trope?) is when a character is pregnant ONLY because the actress playing her is pregnant--and that seems to be the case in these "surprise" baby plots.

I hate that too. If you weren't planning on the character to be pregnant then why change it because the actress is pregnant? I also hate with the "surprise" pregnancy for women who have zero interest in having a baby but will not have an abortion even when it makes complete sense for the character. Nope, she'll either have a miscarriage or suddenly decide she completely wants a baby.   

Edited April 26, 2018 by andromeda331

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I hate that too. If you weren't planning on the character to be pregnant then why change it because the actress is pregnant? I also hate with the "surprise" pregnancy for women who have zero interest in having a baby but will not have an abortion even when it makes complete sense for the character. Nope, she'll either have a miscarriage or suddenly decide she completely wants a baby.   

Adding onto that is the woman who doesn't want kids but is then convinced of the "error of her ways" by her male partner and has a baby (for him).  Ugh.

[NDW5332]

Speaking of pregnancies on TV, what I would call the "pregnancy test" is this:

 - on a comedy, if a woman unexpectedly throws up ("must have been last night's takeout") - she's pregnant

 - on a drama, if a woman unexpectedly passes out (Chloe on 24) - she's pregnant

 

In the comedy scenario, it is also typically followed up with a humorous scene where she verifies the results with several dozen home pregnancy tests.

[cpcathy]

I guess it would be the opposite of a trope, I wish there were more couples on TV without kids, and who did not want kids.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I guess it would be the opposite of a trope, I wish there were more couples on TV without kids, and who did not want kids.

So do I. It would be nice. There are a lot of couples who really don't want kids.  

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Adding onto that is the woman who doesn't want kids but is then convinced of the "error of her ways" by her male partner and has a baby (for him).  Ugh.

I would love to see just once the woman not being convinced to have a baby and her partner being completely okay with that. Or to see a couple discuss kids she doesn't want them and he does then have to decide if he's okay with that or that's something he really wants and they break up. But not have it be a bad thing like she's horrible for not wanting a kid and giving up a great relationship or him being horrible because he really does want kids. That's not really something you can compromise on. There's nothing wrong with either point and maybe it means they should break up and find someone more inline with what they both want.  

[orza]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I would love to see just once the woman not being convinced to have a baby and her partner being completely okay with that. Or to see a couple discuss kids she doesn't want them and he does then have to decide if he's okay with that or that's something he really wants and they break up. But not have it be a bad thing like she's horrible for not wanting a kid and giving up a great relationship or him being horrible because he really does want kids. That's not really something you can compromise on. There's nothing wrong with either point and maybe it means they should break up and find someone more inline with what they both want.  

Exactly this story line was done on The Good Doctor this season. Nick and Jessica were engaged when she told him she really did not want children. He tried to compromise and thought he could be happy with coaching Little League or something. Jessica finally broke off the engagement because that's not a compromise and Nick would some day resent that he missed out on something so important to him.

[kathyk24]

11 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I guess it would be the opposite of a trope, I wish there were more couples on TV without kids, and who did not want kids.

The Closer had this plot Brenda didn't want kids Fritz did but they never had children. I think people believe that you are selfish if you don't want children. although I don't think that's true.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

The Closer had this plot Brenda didn't want kids Fritz did but they never had children. I think people believe that you are selfish if you don't want children. although I don't think that's true.

They played with the no children for 40 and 50 something professionals issue but then gave Brenda Lee an early onset of menopause to take the issue off the table by giving the character a medical cover story for only having a cat.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

They played with the no children for 40 and 50 something professionals issue but then gave Brenda Lee an early onset of menopause to take the issue off the table by giving the character a medical cover story for only having a cat.

Didn't she have a medical condition that required surgery which was why she had symptoms of early menopause?

[ChromaKelly]

18 hours ago, NDW5332 said:

Speaking of pregnancies on TV, what I would call the "pregnancy test" is this:

 - on a comedy, if a woman unexpectedly throws up ("must have been last night's takeout") - she's pregnant

 - on a drama, if a woman unexpectedly passes out (Chloe on 24) - she's pregnant

 

In the comedy scenario, it is also typically followed up with a humorous scene where she verifies the results with several dozen home pregnancy tests.

Yes, and she must run around with the pee stick and show it to everyone, including a store clerk and a delivery boy.

[Raja]

33 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Didn't she have a medical condition that required surgery which was why she had symptoms of early menopause?

I can't recall another medical condition but then the show was removed from syndication awhile ago and was replaced by its continuation Major Crimes 

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Didn't she have a medical condition that required surgery which was why she had symptoms of early menopause?

Yes; once she had the surgery, she was no longer in premature menopause.  And in all her distress about the possibility of going through menopause then, not being able to get pregnant wasn't part of it.  It had nothing to do with them not having kids.

Brenda asked Fritz if he wanted kids, he said that would have to be a joint decision, she said no, and he was fine with it.  It was a lovely scene (they were talking about school districts and big houses, but it was code for kids) - a married couple having a mature discussion (one they should have had before they got married, but I'll take what I can get), in which a female main character says she doesn't want kids and means it.

But then Fritz would occasionally bring it up, and it bugged me every time.  At least Brenda never wavered.

[andromeda331]

15 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Yes; once she had the surgery, she was no longer in premature menopause.  And in all her distress about the possibility of going through menopause then, not being able to get pregnant wasn't part of it.  It had nothing to do with them not having kids.

Brenda asked Fritz if he wanted kids, he said that would have to be a joint decision, she said no, and he was fine with it.  It was a lovely scene (they were talking about school districts and big houses, but it was code for kids) - a married couple having a mature discussion (one they should have had before they got married, but I'll take what I can get), in which a female main character says she doesn't want kids and means it.

But then Fritz would occasionally bring it up, and it bugged me every time.  At least Brenda never wavered.

Thank you. I thought that's what happened but then thought maybe my memory was off. I'm glad Brenda didn't waver nothing she really didn't seem like someone who would want kids. She loved working, her husband and her cats.        

Edited April 27, 2018 by andromeda331

[ABay]

11 hours ago, Raja said:

They played with the no children for 40 and 50 something professionals issue but then gave Brenda Lee an early onset of menopause to take the issue off the table by giving the character a medical cover story for only having a cat.

Only a cat? What's wrong with having a cat? I believe we're heading for another trope I hate, and not limited to TV.

Edited April 27, 2018 by ABay

[AntiBeeSpray]

44 minutes ago, ABay said:

Only a cat? What's wrong with having a cat? I believe we're heading for another trope I hate, and not limited to TV.

 

Word. Cats are cool. Wouldn't black cats being bad luck in tv and movies be kind of a trope coming off of that?

Edited April 27, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[OtterMommy]

Yeah, the idea that having a cat = crazy (and, usually, crazy cat lady) is more than a little annoying.

[Bastet]

That's another one where The Closer got it right - Brenda was not remotely presented as a Crazy Cat Lady stereotype.  Hell, once Fritz moved in, he was a better pet owner than she was (she wasn't a bad one, she just sort of fell into it with no experience, and it showed).  Yet the cats (one at a time; Fritz brought home a kitten a while after her/their cat died) weren't invisible, like pets often are on TV -- Kitty and then Joel were part of their family, and we saw them feed the cats, hang out with the cats, talk about the cats, etc.

[AntiBeeSpray]

27 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Yeah, the idea that having a cat = crazy (and, usually, crazy cat lady) is more than a little annoying.

Definitely. The only time I laughed about it (at least a bit) was with the crazy cat lady in the Simpsons. Other than that... no.

[andromeda331]

For me it was on the Closer when Brenda's cat had kittens. She thought he was a boy up until that moment. Later in the episode she's looking at the cat and kittens and wondering how she with too many cats. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

That's another one where The Closer got it right - Brenda was not remotely presented as a Crazy Cat Lady stereotype.  Hell, once Fritz moved in, he was a better pet owner than she was (she wasn't a bad one, she just sort of fell into it with no experience, and it showed).  Yet the cats (one at a time; Fritz brought home a kitten a while after her/their cat died) weren't invisible, like pets often are on TV -- Kitty and then Joel were part of their family, and we saw them feed the cats, hang out with the cats, talk about the cats, etc.

They really did. From beginning to end. When Kitty's health starts going bad Brenda tries do everything to prevent the inevitable but its so sad when she realizes she has to put her cat down. The range of emotions. Just like anyone who's ever had to put a cat down. Then when Fritz gets her a kitten she doesn't Joel because she doesn't want to get too attached again and have to go through it all over again. Again just like anyone who lost a pet. She tries to resist the entire episode before ending up with the kitten cuddled up with the kitten. It never fails to make me think of my dogs. 

[selkie]

I feel like I have to give some credit to 'Love' on Netflix for going against trope in the new season when Mickey calls up Gus to tell him she's throwing up behind a dumpster, and it turns out she is not pregnant but rather has norovirus. It was actually kind of weird to have a tv episode go in that direction for a change. 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, selkie said:

I feel like I have to give some credit to 'Love' on Netflix for going against trope in the new season when Mickey calls up Gus to tell him she's throwing up behind a dumpster, and it turns out she is not pregnant but rather has norovirus. It was actually kind of weird to have a tv episode go in that direction for a change. 

Wow, that's really surprising. And good. 

[MaryPatShelby]

Robin in HIMYM didn't want kids either, and lost at least one relationship (Kevin, who I loved and wanted her with until the end of time) because of it.

[Irlandesa]

On 4/29/2018 at 8:13 PM, MaryPatShelby said:

Robin in HIMYM didn't want kids either, and lost at least one relationship (Kevin, who I loved and wanted her with until the end of time) because of it.

Right.  But they kind of annoyed me a couple of times with how they wrote her choice to not have kids.  At one point, when her career was going poorly, they had her toy with the idea of wanting kids which came too close to presenting the situation as an either/or...in that she was choosing one over the other rather than a desire to just not want kids.  And when she found out she couldn't have kids, we spent an episode or two where she mourned the fact that she couldn't have kids.

And in the finale, she gets her dream job, loses her marriage and is basically shown years in the future somewhat unfulfilled and pining over Ted whose desire to have kids was a major roadblock in their relationship as well. Luckily, his brood mare (who was awesome btw) died so they could live happily ever after.

So while she was initially a character after my own heart, some of the things they did with that choice over the years should have served as a harbinger of how massively they would screw up the ending.

[kathyk24]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Right.  But they kind of annoyed me a couple of times with how they wrote her choice to not have kids.  At one point, when her career was going poorly, they had her toy with the idea of wanting kids which came too close to presenting the situation as an either/or...in that she was choosing one over the other rather than a desire to just not want kids.  And when she found out she couldn't have kids, we spent an episode or two where she mourned the fact that she couldn't have kids.

And in the finale, she gets her dream job, loses her marriage and is basically shown years in the future somewhat unfulfilled and pining over Ted whose desire to have kids was a major roadblock in their relationship as well. Luckily, his brood mare (who was awesome btw) died so they could live happily ever after.

So while she was initially a character after my own heart, some of the things they did with that choice over the years should have served as a harbinger of how massively they would screw up the ending.

Tracy AKA the Mother was great. I'll never understand why they broke up Robin and Barney I though they were better together than Robin and Ted ever were. I also hated how they made Barney a single dad he was too selfish to be a parent.

[Fable]

On 4/26/2018 at 8:55 PM, andromeda331 said:

I would love to see just once the woman not being convinced to have a baby and her partner being completely okay with that. Or to see a couple discuss kids she doesn't want them and he does then have to decide if he's okay with that or that's something he really wants and they break up. But not have it be a bad thing like she's horrible for not wanting a kid and giving up a great relationship or him being horrible because he really does want kids. That's not really something you can compromise on. There's nothing wrong with either point and maybe it means they should break up and find someone more inline with what they both want.  

 

On 4/26/2018 at 11:14 PM, orza said:

Exactly this story line was done on The Good Doctor this season. Nick and Jessica were engaged when she told him she really did not want children. He tried to compromise and thought he could be happy with coaching Little League or something. Jessica finally broke off the engagement because that's not a compromise and Nick would some day resent that he missed out on something so important to him.

What bothered about this is that Jessica decided she knew what was best for Nick, when Nick had already decided that he loved her enough to stick it out came up with an alternate solution to work it out.  It’s called compromise, and it’s what normal couples do.  If Nick had been the one to break up, it would have made sense, but I Jessica sacrificing herself for his sake makes her come off as a martyr, and it’s not a good look. 

[Raja]

The sleeper agent who doesn't have the opportunity to continually train like a special forces soldier, least he blow his cover, becoming a super ninja when he is activated (against his will)  as a near middle aged dad.

[Jacqs]

One trope i hate for its short-sightedness: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheGreatPoliticsMessUp

[In2You]

Beyond tired of the commoner marries a prince tv movies and I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon due to Meghan Markle.  

Though I'm sure none of them will feature a lead of the same background as Meghan.

[Jacqs]

Meghan Markle's "crusade" 0 at age eleven - to "fight" a a "sexist" ad company wouldn't have been entirely or even mostly her own idea. It's like that school uniform inquiry where it was clear that almost all of the teenage girls talking were parroting the political views of their mothers.

[ursula]

4 hours ago, JacquelineAppleton said:

Meghan Markle's "crusade" 0 at age eleven - to "fight" a a "sexist" ad company wouldn't have been entirely or even mostly her own idea. It's like that school uniform inquiry where it was clear that almost all of the teenage girls talking were parroting the political views of their mothers.

I don't understand the point of this statement? Children generally learn values/ideologies from their parents. Or they should if they were fortunate enough to have good parenting and everything points to that for Meghan Markle.  

One trope that I've noticed and I really despise is the interracial relationship (white/not-white I've observed so far) that is set up by the show as "OTP" only to be constantly derailed and subjected to obstacles and then it collapses on "mutual differences" when it's pretty clear that Doylistically, the relationship was never given a chance. 

[DearEvette]

11 hours ago, ursula said:

One trope that I've noticed and I really despise is the interracial relationship (white/not-white I've observed so far) that is set up by the show as "OTP" only to be constantly derailed and subjected to obstacles and then it collapses on "mutual differences" when it's pretty clear that Doylistically, the relationship was never given a chance. 

This brings to mind the creator of Boy Meets World's revelation on why he had Shawn and Angela Break up.

Quote

“I think of every decision I made about both shows, that was the one that I probably got the most resistance on, but for what I always thought was the wrong reason,” he told us. “There can only be one Cory and Topanga and if Cory and Topanga and Shawn and Angela succeed, it lessens what I always thought was the mantra of the core show.”

This quote kills me because it basically it sounds to me like he is trying to reassure us that he didn't break them up because they were an IR Couple.  But the alternative reason sounds even worse.  It sounds like the Shawn/Angela pairing was as popular  Corey/Topanga pairing and they had to break them because they were threatening to overshadow the main couple.

[truthaboutluv]

13 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

This brings to mind the creator of Boy Meets World's revelation on why he had Shawn and Angela Break up.

This quote kills me because it basically it sounds to me like he is trying to reassure us that he didn't break them up because they were an IR Couple.  But the alternative reason sounds even worse.  It sounds like the Shawn/Angela pairing was as popular  Corey/Topanga pairing and they had to break them because they were threatening to overshadow the main couple.

Wow. Never saw this comment before and really wish I hadn't. I remember reading many fans being upset by the "resolution" they gave the couple in the Girl Meets World reboot and I for one was really annoyed with that quickie, thrown together relationship of Shawn and Maya's mother but knowing that essentially dude felt the couple couldn't be as popular as Cory and Topanga is really fucking annoying. So his answer was to ignore what the fans of the show wanted and responded to because can't have any other pairing be as liked as our main pairing. Wow, okay then. 

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

So his answer was to ignore what the fans of the show wanted and responded to because can't have any other pairing be as liked as our main pairing. Wow, okay then. 

Right? What a dumb response. 

I loved Shawn/Angela. I liked how they balanced each other out in terms of their personalities and such. Did they have their ups and downs? Yes, because they were in high school/college. Name me a relationship from that time period in one's life that doesn't. Doesn't mean they "couldn't sustain" a relationship and work things out as they got older. 

[ParadoxLost]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 11:39 AM, Raja said:

The sleeper agent who doesn't have the opportunity to continually train like a special forces soldier, least he blow his cover, becoming a super ninja when he is activated (against his will)  as a near middle aged dad.

Too many of these words brought back this memory for me to truly hate this trope.

Oh, Chuck me.

Guys, I know Kung Fu

[ursula]

On 18/06/2018 at 2:26 PM, DearEvette said:

This brings to mind the creator of Boy Meets World's revelation on why he had Shawn and Angela Break up.

This quote kills me because it basically it sounds to me like he is trying to reassure us that he didn't break them up because they were an IR Couple.  But the alternative reason sounds even worse.  It sounds like the Shawn/Angela pairing was as popular  Corey/Topanga pairing and they had to break them because they were threatening to overshadow the main couple.

Or maybe the reverse is closer to the truth - he made Shawn/Angela an interracial couple so that they won't be more popular than Cory/Topanga. Kind of like - investing in the audience's passive racism to evoke a response, or in this case, a lack of response. The popularity** of the ship must have taken him by surprise. 

 

Which is also another trope I dislike - the way creators play favourites with characters at the expense of the story. I don't know if I'm making this clear, but to use the BMW example - Shawn as a character was conceived as Cory's foil - poor, broken home, etc. He was never supposed to be better or happier or more successful than Cory. So any time he started doing better than Cory or being happier than Cory - the story would contrive a reason to "clip" him, so to speak. (Caveat - I haven't watched the show, just what I got from the article so maybe I'm wrong in some details.)

And ----- surely there has to be more imagination in story-telling than that? Is the only option to prop a main character making other characters dumber, less competent - unluckier? Fine, let your hero be the best at whatever he does ---- but there are lots of other things he doesn't do and can't be great at. So let the other characters have a shot at competence in those areas. And no - making these characters competent in their fields, but their fields treated as irrelevant or even cumbersome to the main story - doesn't count.

What does it say about your world that happily-ever-after is attainable to only one couple or one individual?

I mean - wow. That's such a small, selfish "World". Why would anyone want to live there?

 

 

**ETA: Which is actually a good point about how social media distorts the perception/reception of characters/storylines especially along racial lines. If BMW were being aired today, social media would probably tear Angela into pieces and magnify every single imperfection of hers, and call the relationship toxic, abusive, and - my personal favourite - incestuous. Without loud angry fans drowning everything else, ratings gave a clear picture of what storylines worked and what didn't, what audiences responded to and did not and the ratings showed that the audience enjoyed Shawngela. It in turn gave the writers the freedom to write them as much as they wanted, and it's obvious that the writers clearly enjoyed writing Shawngela. Heck, I imagine that the showrunner was surprised at how much he liked them. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by ursula

[Luckylyn]

I heard a story that there was some racist hate mail when Shawn/Angela started and the actress playing Angela was nearly fired.  Then, the actors on the show fought to keep her and to let Shawn/Angela have more time to build a fanbase which they did.    I’m still not over Saved By the Bell breaking up Zack/Lisa after only one episode of being a couple without any explanation.

One trope I hate is that women don’t like science fiction/fantasy.  Plenty of little girls and women are fans but pop culture acts that those genres belong to guys and that female fans are unusual.  

Edited July 1, 2018 by Luckylyn

[Joe]

24 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

One trope I hate is that women don’t like science fiction/fantasy.  Plenty of little girls and women are fans but pop culture acts that those genres belong to guys and that female fans are unusual.  

My mum first took me to Star Wars. She always watched Star Trek & Babylon 5 with me too. There are now multiple Star Wars podcasts that while they have male guests, the regular hosts are all women. There are millions of female geeks.

[ratgirlagogo]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

There are millions of female geeks.

Yes, and there always were.