S01.E08: Ever After

[AnimeMania]

SEASON FINALE

It’s time for everyone to cross the threshold and face their demons, including Masha. But will they make it to other side?

Air Date: 9/22/21

[Armchair Critic]

Came back to edit my post because I got to thinking.... did the endings for these people really happen or was that the story Francis was writing?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Armchair Critic

[BeckyThatcher]

Dear Masha,, if you choose to drive with your imaginary daughter- please keep your hands on the wheel! 
 

 

[BeckyThatcher]

1 hour ago, Armchair Critic said:

Came back to edit my post because I got to thinking.... did the endings for these people really happen or was that the story Francis was writing?

Francis writes what her readers crave- happy endings; ignoring her editor’s gripe. Just my assumption.
If it was a critic, I’d go with it being a message from screenwriters (acting as Francis) that television series must give viewers a happy ending with all issues tied up, ignoring complexity or fears of taking risk and not “sticking the landing”. So the writers say, if you hated our shows that challenged the viewers, well here ya go; enjoy our trite tripe.

Who knows, I have a mixed reaction, did not enjoy the series, but kept watching. 

Masha’s white eyelet dress reminded me a my dream dress from a 1977 Seventeen magazine. 

 

[pennben]

I’m still not sure what it all was about, but really enjoyed the series.  
One thing I read elsewhere is that in this age of anti-heroes & messy endings, that a happy ending is almost fighting against the now standard ‘trope’ of there are no happy endings. Just an interesting thought thought to me anyway.  
Maybe it’s just because there’s so much awful around these days, that (for me at least) sometimes I enjoy a happy ending rather than welp, everyone is awful/damaged/whatnot coming in & remain so going out. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by pennben

[LADreamr]

Maybe there are happy endings, it's just that where we are now, is not the end.

Not that that was the point of any of this.  There were good things about the series, but I don't think I'll miss it.

[funnygirl]

I love happy endings. TV is escapism and make-believe. The "it's not realistic" argument is so tired because while storytelling pulls from life, at the end of the day it's a story. The real world dishes enough crap on a day-to-day basis... we shouldn't always have to experience doom-and-gloom in our entertainment, too. I see nothing wrong with shows ending tied up in a happy bow.  YMMV

I enjoyed this series. Great cast. 

[archer1267]

The endings weren't so fantastical to be unrealistic - except for maybe Ben and Jessica taking over the retreat. (Presumably with a different focus!) I didn't get the ending with Masha and maybe it was meant to be ambiguous - if she was hallucinating her daughter, or had chosen to be with her daughter permanently, i.e. suicide? Which would be especially grim after those whole Zack-in-the-woods scenes.

That near-death "simulation" was all kinds of messed up. "Fuck you, Yao!" indeed.

 

 

 

 

[Nellise]

What a mess this show turned into. I thought it was promising after the first 3 episodes that we'd have these different types of people interacting and we get to see what comes of that, but they barely interact at all for the rest of the series.

It was awfully convenient that all the guests went and got Masha, then walked into the room that allowed Masha to lock them in for their near death experience so they could have their big revelations. No plot contrivance there.

One of the least interesting things to me is watching shows trying to portray people on drugs and we got like 6 episodes of that. This episode alone we got 30 minutes of people running around in a forest/field and then about 3 minutes to wrap up everybody's stories which would have been much more interesting to see (Ben and Jessica, wtf?).

Did I miss the explanation of what happened to the cars?

 

 

[Mackey]

Where are those cars? I want to know. 

[SoMuchTV]

6 minutes ago, Mackey said:

Where are those cars? I want to know. 

Really.  I mean, I would have no problem hand-waving that they were moved to a different site to prevent people from leaving, but that seems like such a random plot point to throw in with no follow-up.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

That was stressful. Glory was so incredibly creepy this episode. Was she even monitoring them when they were locked in the room to make sure no one had a heart attack (again) or anything? I don't advocate for violence but I was surprised that no one punched Yao in the face after he opened the door and told them it was all a simulation and that Masha never "intended to hurt anyone." Please.

Would the police really drive to the retreat with sirens and flashing lights like that? I wonder what Delilah told them.

I was a little annoyed that Masha got what she wanted--to see her daughter. However, they did show us Zoe telling Masha that she had to let her daughter go and Masha not doing that. So, it's seems like it was a careful what you wish for situation where Masha got her fondest wish and then was stuck living in the past forever. I was expecting her car to go over the cliffs when she was driving at the end but guess that's not what the hands free driving was about after all.

I did get a little of what I wanted with Frances and Tony, with Tony hanging with his daughters and Frances writing again. That was nice. Lars' and Carmel's endings were nice as well. I didn't care for Ben and Jessica taking over the retreat, I'd rather see it shut down. On the other hand, at least they can change it into something good.

[archer1267]

I wondered if Ben and Jessica's tacked-on ending was meant to leave the door open to a second season (different guests)...? And maybe not micro-dosing, but another twist. Ben talked about going back to his food delivery truck, and never seemed more than neutral on Tranquillum. But it makes more sense if it was set up as a plot device for another season. But I can't see sustained interest beyond this episode.

I can't remember how things were resolved with the Connolly's, but maybe Delilah had evidence showing that Mr. Connolly was drugged beyond what was safe?

[Snazzy Daisy]

Told ya! Carmel shot Masha and has been threatening her. And the Marconis have been tricked to participate in Masha’s drug-induced experiment because she desperately needs to see her deceased daughter.

The finale montage where everyone get their happy endings, I will assume it’s all Frances’ writing/imagination.

Ever After is just so-so. Some subplots are either unresolved or eventually meaningless. Too much time wasted on the Marconis in the woods, quite boring!

This is my favourite scene, it’s so beautiful! 💪🏻💪🏻😍🥰🤣

[SoWindsor]

Did anyone else cry a lot!?

 

[SlovakPrincess]

Michael Shannon and the other Marconi family actors were tremendous, but I felt we got so much of that family, and too little of Lars, Ben and Jessica (Frances, Tony and Carmel we probably got just the right amount of) over the series.   Needing to let go of their mourning and self-blame over Zach's suicide is good drama, but there's only so much time you can spend reiterating that theme before it gets repetitive.  

I'm also still kind of unclear on Masha's whole background ... her daughter dies tragically, she becomes a mean and selfish corporate executive  (and screws Carmel's husband), gets shot (by Carmel) and then becomes a psychedelic guru?  I guess?  Or did the whole thing with the daughter happen after the shooting?  What was the deal with her, Yeo and Delilah ... how did they all even end up in that weird triangle?   I might have had more fun with this if Masha had simply been more evil and everyone learned important things about themselves in spite of the crazy lady and the massive amounts of drugs she was feeding them.

 

[Anela]

I didn't give it my full attention. I hoped that it wasn't just Frances' writing them happy endings. There was too much focus on drugs, and I think I'm also just tired of these rushed endings. 

[Nordly Beaumont]

3 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

This is my favourite scene, it’s so beautiful! 💪🏻💪🏻😍🥰🤣

Oh, yeah! Great screen grab! To me, the only good thing about this show was getting to look at Manny Jacinto.

I've never done hallucinogens, but I assumed once you're high, you're high. Masha seemed to be able to "snap to" any time she needed to take care of something, and then snap back into tripping.

[chocolatine]

Masha "I grew up watching American television" - no, you didn't. Masha is in her late 40s or early 50s, and supposedly grew up in the former Soviet Union, which means she didn't have access to western TV shows until she was a teen or young adult in the early 90s. They weren't broadcast on Soviet television, so you could only watch them via bootlegs, which most people didn't have access to, on a VCR, which most people didn't own.

I found it hard to believe that everyone lied or minimized the events to the police in order to protect Masha. Maybe the Marconis, but not any of the other guests.

[pennben]

15 hours ago, LADreamr said:

Maybe there are happy endings, it's just that where we are now, is not the end.

Not that that was the point of any of this.  There were good things about the series, but I don't think I'll miss it.

That’s an interesting point & one I was thinking about addressing in my post, but, well, way too late or early depending on time zones for sustained coherent typing.  The ep title was “Ever After”, not happily ever after.  
We saw a slice of where they were during the show.  We learned a slice of where they were at some point both before and after the show.  They've also been on a path to their ‘ever afters’.  Perhaps when we peek in from time time to time, they will be happy, sad, damaged, old wounds reopen, they fully healed but new bad things happen, etc. 

It is, as you suggest a continuum until we die  Like Masha said when getting in the police car—-we’re all gonna die, just not today.  

I think I appreciated the peek through that ended the show landing on an optimistic point.  I don’t doubt there are troubles ahead, but it is an unusual stopping point these days.  I appreciate a landing point that shows damaged folks recovering and happy.  It is possible!

Edited September 23, 2021 by pennben

[chediavolo]

I wasn’t satisfied with the ending. Was it real or all part of Frances book?! I hate when shows are ambiguous. 
And we have certifiably crazy Carmel getting off scott free. She tried to murder someone, and has plenty of other issues she needs to deal with. She should be in a mental hospital. 

[RedbirdNelly]

this show started strong and then got less so; we were ready for it to be over. That being said, I was happy with the ending overall. I'm glad it was positive and not doom and gloom. The Marconis made me sob at one point.

[dmc]

Yikes my review is entirely done with emojis 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️💊💉🌲❄️👻🚪🔥🚔 = 🌈 🤷‍♀️🤣

[mostlylurking]

20 hours ago, funnygirl said:

I love happy endings. TV is escapism and make-believe. The "it's not realistic" argument is so tired because while storytelling pulls from life, at the end of the day it's a story.

I love happy endings as well. I get enough sadness and anxiety in real life.  While I understand sometimes plot points are just plan dumb, the “it’s unrealistic” argument is just silly. Umm. You’re watching a television show, not reality!

I think the ending was what Francis was writing because of the last scene with Masha and her daughter.  The Marconis just broke my heart.

I don’t like how short series’ are these days. I miss the days of long, 22 episode seasons. It seems we can’t really get to into any show because they come and go so quickly, especially a show like this with so many characters. I would have loved to see the motivations for all the people working for Masha. Overall it was good, but too short.

[MicheleinPhilly]

14 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

Did anyone else cry a lot!?

I'll admit I had a little something in my eye when the Marconis were saying goodbye to Zach. 

I have no problem with the tidy little bow they placed on everything. I found the entire show REALLY messy and pretty poorly fleshed out so I appreciated the little bit of happy closure. 

As I've mentioned before, I really hated the book so I think there was only so much that could have been done with this. But given the pedigree, I expected a LOT more. If Kidman continues optioning and adapting Moriarty's novels, I hope she considers partnering with someone other than David E. Kelley as I don't think he is the right showrunner for these stories (season 1 of BLL excepting.) 

[dshgr]

Back in the early 80s, I was dating a guy and we went on a camping trip with a bunch of his friends (all of which are very educated engineers).  My guy and his friends decided to do mushrooms one night, and they acted like a bunch of idiots throughout the entire episode.  This is my "most irritating boyfriend ever" experience.  I broke up with him when we got home.  

I find being the sober one is not entertaining.

[Straycat80]

What a waste of time watching this show was. I kept being told to stay with it, it gets better. It did not. What was the point of having all the people besides the Marconi family there? Masha needed them to help her see her daughter again. She needed the assassin lady there to forgive her apparently. What was the purpose of everyone else? Guess I missed something but I don’t care. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

16 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I'm also still kind of unclear on Masha's whole background ... her daughter dies tragically, she becomes a mean and selfish corporate executive  (and screws Carmel's husband), gets shot (by Carmel) and then becomes a psychedelic guru?  I guess?  Or did the whole thing with the daughter happen after the shooting?  What was the deal with her, Yeo and Delilah ... how did they all even end up in that weird triangle?   I might have had more fun with this if Masha had simply been more evil and everyone learned important things about themselves in spite of the crazy lady and the massive amounts of drugs she was feeding them.

I believe Yao was the paramedic who saved Masha's life after the shooting.  Masha technically "died" and then was brought back to life and started Tranquility House.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Haleth]

I was insistent last week that Masha was only hallucinating that Carmel was her attacker. That it wasn’t a hallucination should have been a clue that I was going to hate the rest of this show. What a mess!  The book had its problems but this was godawful. I can’t count how many times I rolled my eyes at the sappy dialogue and terrible acting. 

[Cinnabon]

39 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I was insistent last week that Masha was only hallucinating that Carmel was her attacker. That it wasn’t a hallucination should have been a clue that I was going to hate the rest of this show. What a mess!  The book had its problems but this was godawful. I can’t count how many times I rolled my eyes at the sappy dialogue and terrible acting. 

Same. I was absolutely sure that she was hallucinating about Carmel. It went downhill from there.

[mostlylurking]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

 

I was insistent last week that Masha was only hallucinating that Carmel was her attacker. That it wasn’t a hallucination should have been a clue that I was going to hate the rest of this show.

 

Yeah, I thought she was hallucinating as well. Carmel should not have gotten off scot free. I mean, I get that she was pissed at Masha for boinking her husband but that’s not something to attempt murder over. And if she did attempt to murder someone (which she obviously should not) if should have been her asshat husband. 

[Cinnabon]

31 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

Yeah, I thought she was hallucinating as well. Carmel should not have gotten off scot free. I mean, I get that she was pissed at Masha for boinking her husband but that’s not something to attempt murder over. And if she did attempt to murder someone (which she obviously should not) if should have been her asshat husband. 

You’re right, it should have been her cheating husband. He’s the one who took vows.

[preeya]

AMEN!

[tvfanatic13]

There was absolutely no need for Marsha to be Russian. 
I also thought I’m the end was the book Frances wrote. Not sure I understood the Marconi happy ending. Just driving in a car??

[Johnny Dollar]

The ending was definitely how Frances’s book would read. They showed her taking down notes, then they cut to everyone’s happily ever after, then they cut back to the restaurant with Tony falling asleep in his seat.

A very disappointing finale. I don’t know how the book ended but this was a big letdown. 

[Steph Sometimes]

Carmel's white eye was freaking me out.

As much as this show was a mess (and it was!), I did end up loving Frances and Tony, and even if they didn't get the puppy/daughter scene for real at least they got dinner. Hope he woke up in time for his burgers and sundae. I don't know why I ended up loving them so much.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Steph Sometimes

[Zonk]

So there was really no reason for Masha to be russian. Which means we had to sit through Kidman's godawfull accent for nothing. Now I'm mad!

[pezgirl7]

19 hours ago, chediavolo said:

And we have certifiably crazy Carmel getting off scott free. She tried to murder someone, and has plenty of other issues she needs to deal with. She should be in a mental hospital. 

It looked like she could have been in an institution, leading some kind of therapy group. At least that's what I'm going to believe, because I agree that she should not be free!

14 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

What was the point of having all the people besides the Marconi family there? 

Everyone but the Marconis were paying guests, and the resort needs money to run. I'm guessing it would also be weird for the Marconis if they were the only guests there.

[Johnny Dollar]

So Masha’s super expensive therapy essentially boils down to “Here, take massive doses of hallucinogenics to deal with your grief” and “Hey, stop complaining about your problems. At least you’re not dead.”  Seems like that could’ve been done for much less money in a day or two. 

[Dminches]

7 hours ago, Zonk said:

So there was really no reason for Masha to be russian. Which means we had to sit through Kidman's godawfull accent for nothing. Now I'm mad!

Kidman explained that the accent reflected that the was born in Russia but lived a lot of her life in the US and also spoke 7 languages.  So, to have a straight Russian accent wouldn’t make sense.

 

[Pristine]

On 9/22/2021 at 8:53 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

Michael Shannon and the other Marconi family actors were tremendous, but I felt we got so much of that family, and too little of Lars, Ben and Jessica...

 

Exactly!  I was watching the finale and my son saw Ben/Jessica and asked, "Who are they?  Have they been on the whole time?"

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Dminches said:

Kidman explained that the accent reflected that the was born in Russia but lived a lot of her life in the US and also spoke 7 languages.  So, to have a straight Russian accent wouldn’t make sense.

That's ridiculous. There was nothing mentioned about her speaking seven languages on the show (or in the book). Masha on the show said that she left Russia after her daughter died, so she was an adult. And with the Russian lines she had, it was obvious that she never spoke Russian fluently at any point in her life.

I'm actually the kind of person Kidman alleges Masha is: spoke only Russian as a child, then moved around various countries and now speak multiple languages. I don't have a Russian accent at all anymore, but when I speak Russian, I still speak it fluently.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

That's ridiculous. There was nothing mentioned about her speaking seven languages on the show (or in the book). Masha on the show said that she left Russia after her daughter died, so she was an adult. And with the Russian lines she had, it was obvious that she never spoke Russian fluently at any point in her life.

I'm actually the kind of person Kidman alleges Masha is: spoke only Russian as a child, then moved around various countries and now speak multiple languages. I don't have a Russian accent at all anymore, but when I speak Russian, I still speak it fluently.

I am cracking up over that “explanation.” 😂

[Dminches]

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

That's ridiculous. There was nothing mentioned about her speaking seven languages on the show (or in the book). Masha on the show said that she left Russia after her daughter died, so she was an adult. And with the Russian lines she had, it was obvious that she never spoke Russian fluently at any point in her life.

I'm actually the kind of person Kidman alleges Masha is: spoke only Russian as a child, then moved around various countries and now speak multiple languages. I don't have a Russian accent at all anymore, but when I speak Russian, I still speak it fluently.

I am not defending her nor agreeing with her explanation but having an altered accent is not the same as speaking a language fluently.  I grew up in NY but have lived outside of NY for the past 35 years.  My accent has changed as a result.  I believe that's what she was saying.

You seem to be mixing up the accent and the ability to speak the language.  In fact, your situation seems to mimic what she is saying regarding the changed accent.

[chocolatine]

6 hours ago, Dminches said:

You seem to be mixing up the accent and the ability to speak the language.  In fact, your situation seems to mimic what she is saying regarding the changed accent.

No, I meant that after not living somewhere for a long time you tend to lose that accent entirely rather than develop a fake one, like Masha seems to have done.

Edited September 25, 2021 by chocolatine

[Dminches]

44 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

No, I meant that after not living someone for a long time you tend to lose that accent entirely rather than develop a fake one, like Masha seems to have done.

I see.  This is different than having an accent tied to a foreign language which is your situation, but I have retained about 20% of my NY accent after 30+ years away.  I can definitely see losing a lot of it in your case.

 

[Anela]

19 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

Carmel's white eye was freaking me out.

As much as this show was a mess (and it was!), I did end up loving Frances and Tony, and even if they didn't get the puppy/daughter scene for real at least they got dinner. Hope he woke up in time for his burgers and sundae. I don't know why I ended up loving them so much.

 

 

It was a mess, and I liked them, too. 

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

That's ridiculous. There was nothing mentioned about her speaking seven languages on the show (or in the book). Masha on the show said that she left Russia after her daughter died, so she was an adult. And with the Russian lines she had, it was obvious that she never spoke Russian fluently at any point in her life.

I'm actually the kind of person Kidman alleges Masha is: spoke only Russian as a child, then moved around various countries and now speak multiple languages. I don't have a Russian accent at all anymore, but when I speak Russian, I still speak it fluently.

I would love to speak another language fluently. I was born in England, and grew up there, and here (the US - California). When I started to speak, I was seen as your typical little California girl. After moving back to England, when I was small, I developed an English accent that has never left, despite me being back in the US for almost thirty-one years. I can't do an American accent to save my life. With languages, I'm so-so. I know a little bit, of a few languages. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Anela

[Alexander Pope]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:59 AM, pennben said:

I’m still not sure what it all was about, but really enjoyed the series.  
One thing I read elsewhere is that in this age of anti-heroes & messy endings, that a happy ending is almost fighting against the now standard ‘trope’ of there are no happy endings. Just an interesting thought thought to me anyway.  
Maybe it’s just because there’s so much awful around these days, that (for me at least) sometimes I enjoy a happy ending rather than welp, everyone is awful/damaged/whatnot coming in & remain so going out. 

My dissertation adviser used to say that comedy "is a fantasy of triumph."  We know things don't end happily but we want them to all the same.  That's why I think comedies are much harder to pull off than tragedy.  Not sure what this show was TBH!

I also found it a little unfortunate that the craziest character was a Black woman who had masqueraded as a male thug. YMMV but it didn't sit right with me.  I don't remember if it was that way in the book.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Alexander Pope
edited upon further thought

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Alexander Pope said:

I also found it a little unfortunate that the craziest character was a Black woman who had masqueraded as a male thug. YMMV but it didn't sit right with me.  I don't remember if it was that way in the book.

Spoiler

None of it was in the book. Carmel was just a woman who had lost her self-confidence after her husband left her. Also, she wasn't Black.

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by chocolatine

[Blue Plastic]

Eh, I'm annoyed.  I agree with others that too many shows do the grim ending thing, yet it was kind of weird to me that this show started out grim and foreboding and ended with everyone happy and the dangerous Masha and Carmel free of any consequences.  That is an odd move.  I'd totally buy some characters surviving their experience at the retreat and going on to live happy, functional lives, even the Marconi family having the potential to adjust to their tragic loss, heal as much as possible, and move forward.  But it just doesn't make sense that Masha's and Carmel's past deeds could be explained away.  Yao and any of the other Tranquillum employees who were certified medical professionals should have lost their licenses at the very least.

I guess it's really bothering me that Masha could do all those unethical treatments and experiments on her clients and just skip away scot-free.  And that the show seems to be saying the treatment worked even though it was non-consensual at various times, in addition to being illegal and dangerous.

Also hated the ambiguous nature of the ending.

Nicole Kidman was really on my last nerve in this episode.  Can you tell I really hate Masha?  The stringy hair, the breathy fake accent, the driving around in a car while out of her mind on LSD and not letting go of her dead daughter.  Maybe that last scene was actually of her about to drive off a cliff or something, since she didn't appear to be too concerned with actually steering.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Blue Plastic