Gymnastics

[satrunrose]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

I remember that. 
Atler wasn't Simone level but wasn't she touted to be like the Next Big Thing? (But Elise Ray was much more consistent and better that Olympic year?)

I have to say it could work the other way too - the athlete could blame the organization for ruining their one chance and use that as their weapon every time they had a melt down.  Emmanual Sandhu 100000000 percent comes to mind. FSC kept him off the team in 1998 even though he won the Trials that year (or was 2nd - he earned a bearth), but they decided that they wanted to send a more experienced mens team to Nagano and for 4 years he was pissed off and said how they stole his chance for him and he was ready and he'd totally prove everyone wrong - and almost every major competition when it counted - Sandhu blew up. (heck. he even blew up once on So You Think You Can Dance, Canada), and almost every time he talked about it he goes back how in 98....

like it's such a tricky tricky thing . 

That's funny, Sandhu was who I was thinking about in terms of athletes who struggled over the mental piece. He would mess up a hard jump (triple axle or quad) at the top of the program and the next thing you know he was falling through all of his easier jumps. By the end of at least one competition, he was skating in circles and hopping. It was hard to watch.

Edited July 28, 2021 by satrunrose

[Harry24]

2 hours ago, Daisy said:

What [the Chinese federation] should be mad at is that twice now the men got dinged for not saluting the judges, and it really hurt one of the guys scores today. 

Was that the reason for the phantom .3 penalty that Xiao Ruoteng was assessed and the fed protested in the high bar?

Also:

 The Twisties

Edited July 28, 2021 by Harry24

[Daisy]

6 minutes ago, Harry24 said:

Was that the reason for the phantom .3 penalty that Xiao Ruoteng was assessed and the fed protested in the high bar?

Also:

 The Twisties

yeah. the same thing happened in the team competition. They celebrated and never saluted.. very elementary mistake

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, Jess14 said:

Believe me, I get the preference for AAers, but is there any basis for the notion that gymnasts are too tired to compete their individual events if they carry a higher load in team finals? Just looking at the US team, Carly Patterson did fine in AA/BB finals, Simone did fine in all of her event finals and AA in 2016,  Nastia and Shawn performed very well in their later events. Gabby did well in the AA. While she stumbled in her other events, I think it’s speculative to assume she would’ve hit her EF routines if Maroney had been forced to do floor on one leg in TF or had they subbed in an alternate, especially since Gabby had never been the most consistent gymnast on the national team.

Don’t get me wrong, I like to see gymnasts share the load in TFs too, but I just think mandates create more issues than they solve. Coaches are rarely going to take a gymnast who can only contribute one event in TFs unless that gymnast is truly world class and their score on that event is too high to leave off or unless the remaining teammates are simply better on the other 3 events and maximize the scores. In that case, they’re not going to put up a gymnast who can’t score as high just to share the load. 

I agree plus if Gabby hit in the Uneven bars final she wouldn't have medaled in London. 

[Raachel2008]

16 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I feel like sports will end up being the last sphere of public life where you can play off being a complete asshole to a woman as just 'holding them to a high standard' or some BS.

(Obviously, women are criticized in every sphere of public life and obviously there are people who see through the misogynistic commentary of how gleeful people are in tearing female athletes apart. But I do think that unlike acting or politics or business, there's something about sports that increases the dehumanization... the way you can talk about "athletes" and forget that you are watching people and not entertaining robots trying to jump the highest, swim the fastest, etc.)

And Simone is black.  She is a black woman and as such she gets bashed way way way more than a white athlete. McKayla Maroney 'not impressed' face on podium in 2012 was disrespectful, childish and wrong no matter how the press tried to spin it, yet not only she got a pass but ended in the White House doing the smirk with Obama. Gabby Douglas didn't stand at attention with her right hand over the heart in Rio and was called names and trashed on national brodscasting.  Ryan Lochte lied saying he was mugged at Rio when he actually trashed a gas station and was called "a boy".

Simone can never win with those people, but fuck them. She gave US six medals, was abused, will have physical problems later in life due to the abuse on her tendons and joints and as we can see is mentally  struggling because of the sport. Yet she is wrong because 'she let her team down'? I bet all those girls have been there before.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Raachel2008

[DawnDavenport]

34 minutes ago, Daisy said:

yeah. the same thing happened in the team competition. They celebrated and never saluted.. very elementary mistake

It's what's called a neutral deduction and it's inexcusable. This is part of what frustrates with the Chinese men and I see it hasn't changed. Complaining because of an unnecessary mistake and whining about it. Even if you add in the .3 to his score, he's still out of first by 0.1. They need to STOP WHINING!

When I saw the way he dismounted high bar, he didn't even adjust his feet to pull his legs together and then did two awkward fist bumps in the air and didn't bother to acknowledge the judges. The salute is REQUIRED, not optional.

Jamie Dantzcher did the same thing after her floor during the team final in Sydney and got deducted 0.2 I think. It sucked because she nailed the floor routine and it would have been a big score for the team. Some thought she did it as an FU to Bela.

Edited July 28, 2021 by DawnDavenport

[Lady Whistleup]

Well I actually thought the HB score for XRT was generous. That's his weakest event and he still scored in the 14's. Anyway the penalty wouldn't have been enough to make up the differential in HB with Hashimoto. 

 

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

And Simone is black.  She is a black woman and as such she gets bashed way way way more than a white athlete. McKayla Maroney 'not impressed' face on podium in 2012 was disrespectful, childish and wrong no matter how the press tried to spin it, yet not only she got a pass but ended in the White House doing the smirk with Obama.

I believe all the medalists are invited to the White House for a reception as part of a tradition. Simone was there in 2016 after Rio. Notably back in the day, black Olympians were not invited. Jesse Owens for example was never invited to the White House.

[IvySpice]

Maybe I'm older than some other commentators, but jokes about how losing athletes will be sent to the glue factory (or that horrible fates will befall their families) are familiar to me as a dig on Communism. The Olympics of my childhood were all about the Cold War: "10, 10, 9...oh, only a 6 from the East German judge!" Athletes really got sent to Siberia. Parents didn't have a choice about sending their kid to be chewed up by the gymnastics machine. In the Olympics, American spectators lumped all the Eastern Bloc countries together as the enemies, and we didn't much distinguish the Soviets from the Romanians. The Chinese gymnastic teams are the heir to those totalitarian systems cheating and abusing athletes to promote the government's interests. You don't hear these jokes about Japanese gymnasts because their government isn't evil and the athletes' families aren't held hostage. If, God forbid, a Chinese gymnast had a mental health crisis during the team final in 2008, I'd be scared they would face the gulag.

[Pandora]

2 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Nike but I haven't been able to find the style yet. As far as I can tell it's not on the Nike website.

Is this it?https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/nike-elite-pro-team-usa-backpack-20nikunkhpsltprbktrva/20nikunkhpsltprbktrva?sku=20704667&camp=CSE:DSG_92700049811375716_lia_aud-1233723143945:pla-826309324509&segment=&gclid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SRxpMOiV5qm-k0UkCBFf1BoIZmc5OGdObEw1Kh0NlldvEVv4RgMU3RoCbYcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[CheshireCat]

6 hours ago, alexa said:

You would have to ask almost every discipline and every athlete to know that to be true.  There are a lot of happy athletes at the Olympics doing great things.  I think many of them are glad to have the opportunity to compete.  I just don’t think the extra year was a negative for the majority.  The Olympics come every 4 years normally, and there are always athletes that miss their peak window by Olympics being a year too early or late, even without COVID.

All Olympic hopefuls structure their training schedule so that they have the best chance to peak at the Olympics, though. For some, it doesn't work but they're still trying.

Some athletes were also able to train better than others as lockdowns in some countries disrupted training entirely while others could continue to train because lockdowns were shorter or less severe/strict.

An athlete's body is a fine-tuned machine and if there's a grain somewhere, it can disrupt the whole process. I think that's why we see a fair amount of surprise wins. The extra year seems to have broken things wide open, in some competitions, at least.

[theredhead77]

13 minutes ago, Pandora said:

Is this it?https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/nike-elite-pro-team-usa-backpack-20nikunkhpsltprbktrva/20nikunkhpsltprbktrva?sku=20704667&camp=CSE:DSG_92700049811375716_lia_aud-1233723143945:pla-826309324509&segment=&gclid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SRxpMOiV5qm-k0UkCBFf1BoIZmc5OGdObEw1Kh0NlldvEVv4RgMU3RoCbYcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

No, but I am 99% sure this one is (though in black). Thank you! It's also on the Nike website, I was just looking at their Team USA merchandise, not all of their merchandise.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by theredhead77

[ShellsandCheese]

9 minutes ago, IvySpice said:

Maybe I'm older than some other commentators, but jokes about how losing athletes will be sent to the glue factory (or that horrible fates will befall their families) are familiar to me as a dig on Communism. The Olympics of my childhood were all about the Cold War: "10, 10, 9...oh, only a 6 from the East German judge!" Athletes really got sent to Siberia. Parents didn't have a choice about sending their kid to be chewed up by the gymnastics machine. In the Olympics, American spectators lumped all the Eastern Bloc countries together as the enemies, and we didn't much distinguish the Soviets from the Romanians. The Chinese gymnastic teams are the heir to those totalitarian systems cheating and abusing athletes to promote the government's interests. You don't hear these jokes about Japanese gymnasts because their government isn't evil and the athletes' families aren't held hostage. If, God forbid, a Chinese gymnast had a mental health crisis during the team final in 2008, I'd be scared they would face the gulag.

We cannot discount that anti-China government  bias commonly turns in to prejudice and bigotry toward Chinese athletes and by extension other Asians because people are too dumb to tell them apart - or just too lazy. 

I really enjoyed the Mens AA Final! If you haven’t seen it, try the rewatch on the NBCapp, as I doubt it will get much coverage during prime time. Boo.

 

[Raachel2008]

17 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I believe all the medalists are invited to the White House for a reception as part of a tradition. Simone was there in 2016 after Rio. Notably back in the day, black Olympians were not invited. Jesse Owens for example was never invited to the White House.

I'm sorry I didn't make it clear, but my point is that she ended in the White House doing the smirk with the sitting president. Her behaviour was widely was accepted, approved and repeated in the White House with POTUS. I don't believe for a second that the same thing woudl have happened if she had been black.

[Minneapple]

1 minute ago, Raachel2008 said:

I'm sorry I didn't make it clear, but my point is that she ended in the White House doing the smirk with the sitting president. Her behaviour was widely was accepted, approved and repeated in the White House with POTUS. I don't believe for a second that the same thing woudl have happened if she had been black.

I don't think she did anything wrong.

[ShellsandCheese]

2 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I don't think she did anything wrong.

She was kind of a brat and she did get called out by a lot of people. Personally, I thought it was ridiculous that she still medaled (silver, I believe) after falling on her behind. In my opinion she should have been more gracious and appreciative of the medal she did receive. 

[kittykat]

36 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

really enjoyed the Mens AA Final! If you haven’t seen it, try the rewatch on the NBCapp, as I doubt it will get much coverage during prime time. Boo.

It was really good.  I know the Americans didn't really have a shot but Malone held his own for a while.  I think a low score on Parallel bars knocked him down.  And Sam, well, it would appear he still has butter feet on the floor 😟.

29 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

I'm sorry I didn't make it clear, but my point is that she ended in the White House doing the smirk with the sitting president. Her behaviour was widely was accepted, approved and repeated in the White House with POTUS. I don't believe for a second that the same thing woudl have happened if she had been black.

Oh believe me the racists are having a field day with Simone pulling out of finals.  I'm trying not to scour the internet too much for depression reasons but the support/dissent ratio still appears to be in her favor.  And the outpouring of love from athletes worldwide is inspiring and reminds of that good old Olympic spirit.

[Minneapple]

19 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

She was kind of a brat and she did get called out by a lot of people. Personally, I thought it was ridiculous that she still medaled (silver, I believe) after falling on her behind. In my opinion she should have been more gracious and appreciative of the medal she did receive. 

If you watch the medal ceremony her smirk lasts like a half-second, one of those faces that you make without realizing it. It was a tiny moment that just happened to be the moment captured by the photographer. Remember McKayla was only 16 when this happened. And yeah, she received heat for it. Which is ridiculous. 

[DawnDavenport]

41 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

She was kind of a brat and she did get called out by a lot of people. Personally, I thought it was ridiculous that she still medaled (silver, I believe) after falling on her behind. In my opinion she should have been more gracious and appreciative of the medal she did receive. 

I still think she deserved to medal given that she landed her first vault really well and it had the highest score of anyone in the event finals. The two vaults are averaged and she came out second so she rightfully won based on the code back then. 

Was she a little bratty? Maybe but again she was expected to win the gold medal by pretty much everyone so again, imagine her disappointment at not meeting not only hers but others' expectations.

Cheng fell in Beijing on one of her vaults and still got bronze and Dragulescu fell on one of his vaults in Athens and got bronze so it's not unprecedented. 

One thing to keep in mind that for event finals there is no warm up allowed so gymnasts go from the the warm up gym directly to the competition without touching the competition equipment to get a fell for things. I think this started when the new scoring system was introduced. Not an ideal situation for peak performance.

That's why I'm 100% sure that Biles will not do vault event finals. She has no opportunity to touch the competition vault again before then.

Edited July 28, 2021 by DawnDavenport

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

I believe all the medalists are invited to the White House for a reception as part of a tradition. Simone was there in 2016 after Rio. Notably back in the day, black Olympians were not invited. Jesse Owens for example was never invited to the White House.

The 2012 team was invited as part of a separate ceremony with just the 5 of them. While in 2016 they invited all the Olympians were invited and everyone besides Gabby attended. Obama nominated Gabby to one of those ceremonial posts being on the President Fitness Council before he left office so it was probably Gabby's choice not to attend. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Daisy]

19 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

If you watch the medal ceremony her smirk lasts like a half-second, one of those faces that you make without realizing it. It was a tiny moment that just happened to be the moment captured by the photographer. Remember McKayla was only 16 when this happened. And yeah, she received heat for it. Which is ridiculous. 

well, because - a lot of people feel that you should be thankful for whatever medal you get. (which i mean it's true, you still win a medal). But I don't have a problem with an athlete being pissed off (for a few moments), about the medal they did get if it's not the medal they expected to win (or they made a mistake and that's why they got it). 

When Canada won the silver medal in women's hockey, and some of the white women took off their medals, they got chewed out big time on twitter. Twitter wasn't a thing, but forums were and people were so maaaaaaad when the 2000 Russian team took their medals off when they lost to Romania. People gave the Russian swimmer heck for pouting not smiling and being happy like the 2nd place swimmer because he didn't set a world record.  The Bronze Canadian Judo winner flat out said she spent a good chunk of time crying and was thinking she didn't even want to go out there and compete because she didn't come to Tokyo to win a Bronze medal (she was World Champion and expected to win Gold). I'm certain when all the emotions boil down they are happy with their medals but in the moment? not so much - i get it. 
 

My face totally gets me in trouble because i don't realize it mirrors my thoughts, LOL (I'd be a horrendous poker player) so if I were expected/came in as world champ or something, and I won silver/bronze, my face would not be a happy camper lol

[choclatechip45]

I just realized this and thought it was funny 

Jade & Mykayla are both from Arizona

Simone & Jordan are both training in Texas

Grace & Suni are both from Minnesota 

 

[kittykat]

56 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

I still think she deserved to medal given that she landed her first vault really well and it had the highest score of anyone in the event finals. The two vaults are averaged and she came out second so she rightfully won based on the code back then.

And it's not like she was the only competition.  She lost to Sandra Izbasa and Maria Paseka got bronze.  All three were gold medal, world champion level vaulters.  It was never Makayla and... everyone else.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

I don't think she did anything wrong.

Me either.  It was one moment that got blown way out of proportion.  The media is good at that. 

[scarynikki12]

Maroney made the face for a second and then moved on but it was immortalized on the internet. I remember her parents framed it and gave it a prominent spot on the fireplace and then she jokingly made the face a few other times so that endeared her to people but she got a ton of shit at the time. 

[Quickbeam]

My take on Biles, and I speak as a pre-Title IX woman who got nothing but an eye roll for my efforts…..no one should compete if they don’t want to. However imagine what would happen to a man who said “guys, I’m bagging on the team event, pick up for me, will you?”. As my husband said, he’d be crucified in the press. From a gender neutral POV, she’s getting treated extremely gently. 

[aradia22]

Quote

We cannot discount that anti-China government  bias commonly turns in to prejudice and bigotry toward Chinese athletes and by extension other Asians because people are too dumb to tell them apart - or just too lazy. 

This. I don't think people realize how insidious implicit bias can be. Another big time I see it coming out is with things that are "made in China" or a criticism of Chinese goods, manufacturing, nonethical practices, etc. Obviously being of AAPI descent, you are more sensitive to how people will not talk about Eastern European or American companies that do the same things using the same language and how fault is ascribed to "the Chinese" in a way you don't see with other countries. People don't talk about individual businesses or CEOs, they talk about a collective, as if all Asian people have these inherent traits. I think this kind of rhetoric is a large part of why resentment of the Chinese government was so easily translated to violence against American citizens of Asian descent.

[Jillibean]

Also McKayla was at the Olympics with her rapist being forced to submit to further abuse from him. I don't think anyone should have anything to say about whether she was being a "brat" or whether she should have been "more appreciative." SHE WAS LITERALLY BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED AT THAT OLYMPICS. She can make whatever face she wants. 

[shoregirl]

 

7 minutes ago, Quickbeam said:

My take on Biles, and I speak as a pre-Title IX woman who got nothing but an eye roll for my efforts…..no one should compete if they don’t want to. However imagine what would happen to a man who said “guys, I’m bagging on the team event, pick up for me, will you?”. As my husband said, he’d be crucified in the press. From a gender neutral POV, she’s getting treated extremely gently. 

She didnt flake or "bag on her team" .  She is treating her mental health as important as her physical health and rightly so. As others have said if her head isn't rightly focused she could seriously injure herself.

As for being treated gently she has been mostly treated with understanding and grace there has been a whole lot of b.s spewed people like Piers Morgan .

[ombelico]

25 minutes ago, Quickbeam said:

My take on Biles, and I speak as a pre-Title IX woman who got nothing but an eye roll for my efforts…..no one should compete if they don’t want to. However imagine what would happen to a man who said “guys, I’m bagging on the team event, pick up for me, will you?”. As my husband said, he’d be crucified in the press. From a gender neutral POV, she’s getting treated extremely gently. 

Toxic masculinity is not a valid justification to not treat Simone Biles with grace, compassion, and empathy.

[Lady Whistleup]

25 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

This. I don't think people realize how insidious implicit bias can be. Another big time I see it coming out is with things that are "made in China" or a criticism of Chinese goods, manufacturing, nonethical practices, etc. Obviously being of AAPI descent, you are more sensitive to how people will not talk about Eastern European or American companies that do the same things using the same language and how fault is ascribed to "the Chinese" in a way you don't see with other countries. People don't talk about individual businesses or CEOs, they talk about a collective, as if all Asian people have these inherent traits. I think this kind of rhetoric is a large part of why resentment of the Chinese government was so easily translated to violence against American citizens of Asian descent.

One stereotype that annoys me about Chinese gymnasts is that they're not "powerful." If you compare their vaults to Simone Biles, yeah, they're not powerful. But if you compare, say, MyKayla Skinner's Cheng with, uh, Cheng Fei's Cheng, there's no "power" differential. I've also heard all sorts of accusations that Chinese parents don't love their kids and throw girls down wells. It's such an offensive stereotype.

[Chit Chat]

I'm still watching the ladies gymnastics from last night's broadcast.  I have a dumb question: There were 4 on the team (correct?)  With Biles out, I've only seen 3 others compete on each rotation.  Did an alternate not step in for her?  Were they competing with 3 against other teams with 4, or was it your best 3 on each rotation?  I can't remember how that's done.  I'm still used to 5-7 gymnasts on the floor!!  

[ombelico]

There are 4 members on each team. On each event, 3 compete, and all 3 scores count. The start list for each event had the 3 designated members in the order they would compete, and the 4th member was listed as "reserve." So, when Simone scratched after vault, Jordan, who was the reserve on bars and beam, moved into the 3rd spot on those events, and Suni, who was the reserve on floor, moved into the 3rd spot on that event. 

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I'm still watching the ladies gymnastics from last night's broadcast.  I have a dumb question: There were 4 on the team (correct?)  With Biles out, I've only seen 3 others compete on each rotation.  Did an alternate not step in for her?  Were they competing with 3 against other teams with 4, or was it your best 3 on each rotation?  I can't remember how that's done.  I'm still used to 5-7 gymnasts on the floor!!  

When Simone scratched it was too late to sub an alternate so they had to go with the three gymnasts left. This year the format is four team members plus two individual members who don't get to compete in the team competition.

[Chit Chat]

Thanks, ombelico!  I was blanking on the rules!  I haven't kept up with gymnastics for a while.  

[windsprints]

I long for the day when 1 second of a woman's life when they were a teenager doesn't come back as a reason for people to trash them years later. 

That being said, yes I do believe Simone is getting far more criticism than a white gymnast would be getting. I also think that there are people who are gleeful that the best in the world struggled. They enjoy seeing the best knocked down. There are terrible, terrible people in the world unfortunately. What gives me hope is that along with all the hate there is an outpouring of support for Simone. Former gymnasts explaining what she is experiencing feels like, people all over pointing out that mental health is part of one's overall health, that she didn't flake/crack/choke and so on. I see hateful comments on twitter met with a ton of supportful replies. People are standing with her and standing up to the hate. 

I'm watching the men's AA on the NBC sports app. It's a great competition. Too bad NBC probably won't show much of it. I continue to enjoy the Daggart free commentary. 

[Daisy]

30 minutes ago, shoregirl said:

 

She didnt flake or "bag on her team" .  She is treating her mental health as important as her physical health and rightly so. As others have said if her head isn't rightly focused she could seriously injure herself.

As for being treated gently she has been mostly treated with understanding and grace there has been a whole lot of b.s spewed people like Piers Morgan .

 

I do think (before)  - since how she went off she wasn't limping or whatever - people knew it wasn't physical, and before it came out it was Twisties etc (like up here, some of the sound simply made it sound like Simone didn't like how her vault went and she didn't want to go out there) - hence why a lot of people assume that it was just "she had a bad night and split. "  - that's why I was extremely careful to not make a judgement until i saw the vault etc for myself (and then when you see the vault - pared with her floor in qualifications where she flew off the mat that should have been an indication too in hindsight) it wasn't a temper tantrum or a "No not feeling it", it was a health/safety concern. 

If people are still going "but other people..." then they don't understand and want to be ignorant. I don't really have time for those people. I respect athletes who decide they want to make the decision to push through pain etc for that moment. I think that's completely different than expecting someone to twist in the air who has no air awareness and doesn't know if their body will twist/untwist under control. I've been telling people while Lebron/McDavid/Crosby/Brady might not walk off the field of play if they had a concussion on their own - there are people put in place who would rightly yank them off the field of play for their own safety. We don't have that in the Olympics - so you have to decide that for yourself. Simone did that, and she did the right thing. 

I wouldn't expect Tom Daly to dive in sycro diving if he had the twisties, neither would anyone else. This is the same thing. 

[Harry24]

1 hour ago, DawnDavenport said:

One thing to keep in mind that for event finals there is no warm up allowed 

What's the thinking behind this rule?

[Daisy]

Just now, Harry24 said:

What's the thinking behind this rule?

None. 

[ombelico]

Kudos to Laurie Hernandez for calling Savannah Guthrie out on using the term "cracked" to describe Simone's decision to withdraw. Overall, I've been extremely impressed with Laurie's poise as an analyst. If she wants to make this a part of her career long-term, I think she will do really well. She has a knack for getting right to the heart of the matter and explaining things in a way that quickly synthesizes the issue for the regular viewer. 

https://www.today.com/news/aly-raisman-simone-biles-impact-not-having-fans-olympic-arena-t226632?fbclid=IwAR02-62KqEtx5664jcxMkqePhXYLd82zjnvJk3AZfEb3O9HXvfzq9ilemcQ

Edited July 29, 2021 by ombelico
oops, got Savannah Guthrie's name wrong the first time

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, Quickbeam said:

My take on Biles, and I speak as a pre-Title IX woman who got nothing but an eye roll for my efforts…..no one should compete if they don’t want to. However imagine what would happen to a man who said “guys, I’m bagging on the team event, pick up for me, will you?”. As my husband said, he’d be crucified in the press. From a gender neutral POV, she’s getting treated extremely gently. 

But even putting aside the health factor and the risk of injury, Simone wasn't performing well. Her vault score was really low. If an athlete of any gender was performing badly and there is someone else on the team ready to go, isn't it better to step aside and let them compete instead? If Tom Brady suddenly couldn't throw a football but refused to step aside, people would crucify him for that.

Basically, people in the public eye will eventually get criticized no matter what.

Edited July 29, 2021 by KaveDweller

[Chit Chat]

12 hours ago, windsprints said:

That being said, yes I do believe Simone is getting far more criticism than a white gymnast would be getting.

Respectfully, I disagree.  This is the biggest story at the Olympics at this moment.  Right or wrong, the media is going to run with it.  This will go on for a few days, then things will settle down and there will be another story to be told.  I've never seen this happen to an athlete where it wasn't a physical injury.  All of the analysts and reporters want to put their 2 cents in, but it will blow over soon enough.  It always does.  Simone will come back home and make the talk show rounds and life will go on as usual.  

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by ChitChat

[KittenPokerCheater]

19 minutes ago, ombelico said:

 

Kudos to Laurie Hernandez for calling Samantha Guthrie out on using the term "cracked" to describe Simone's decision to withdraw

 

Is this online somewhere?  I want to see this clip.  That was super tone deaf of Savannah, and I want to see Laurie politely read her the riot act.

[ShellsandCheese]

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

Also McKayla was at the Olympics with her rapist being forced to submit to further abuse from him. I don't think anyone should have anything to say about whether she was being a "brat" or whether she should have been "more appreciative." SHE WAS LITERALLY BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED AT THAT OLYMPICS. She can make whatever face she wants. 

I’m pretty sure that people who called her out in the moment were not of aware of this. And it’s the Olympics! Of course people are going to have opinions on athlete performance and reactions. People are forever calling out athletes for how they respond to disappointment. It’s a not a personal thing against McKayla. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[ombelico]

Just now, KittenPokerCheater said:

Is this online somewhere?  I want to see this clip.  That was super tone deaf of Savannah, and I want to see Laurie politely read her the riot act.

There should be a video in the link in my post - I hope it plays correctly!

[DollEyes]

  My verdict: Team Simone, all the way. After all she's been through physically, mentally and emotionally, Simone doesn't have to prove anything to anyone anymore. She's won Gold medals. She's set World records. She's broken World records. She has done things for gymnastics that no one has ever done before and probably never will again. 

  On top of that, Simone is one of Larry Nassar's survivors. That Simone not only managed to persevere, but become one of the greatest athletes of all time is a tribute to her courage and her character. So is withdrawing from the Olympics. Simone knows her limits, understands them and is dealing with them in her own way, just like Naomi Osaka. Competing in the Olympics is tough in general, but it's even tougher for Black people, especially Black women, who have to deal with racism and sexism. For their critics, even perfection isn't good enough. Kudos to Simone and Naomi for doing what's right for them for the right reasons-and shame on those who try to shame them for it. 

  Especially offensive is Piers Morgan, who had the nerve to lecture Simone and Naomi about quitting when he quit his own show in a huff after the mildest criticism of his obsessive hatred of Meghan Markle, like the loudmouth, thin-skinned and phone-hacking hypocrite he is.  

As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that Simone and Naomi owe anyone are the best versions of themselves and if they have to quit to do it, then so be it. Those who don't like it, bless their hearts-preferably with dirty, greasy and rusty chainsaws.

Edited July 29, 2021 by DollEyes

[Daisy]

Naomi quit?

[aradia22]

Quote

I've also heard all sorts of accusations that Chinese parents don't love their kids and throw girls down wells. It's such an offensive stereotype.

Yeah, almost no country in the world has any moral high ground to stand on with how it treats its women and girls. I think the "we're not as bad as them" can be a useful deflection for guilt about ignoring/excusing things in one's home country.

[ShellsandCheese]

9 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

FWIW, I remember when diver Greg Louganis hit his head on the diving board and cut himself.  There was some blood in the pool.  The media was relentless in discussing his sexuality and whether he had AIDs, and what were they going to do about the pool since it had blood in it.  Then there was the media coverage of Ryan Lochte's unfortunate behavior.  Everything I read about him was very unfavorable.  I didn't read anything that excused his bad behavior. 

I thought Greg came out and announced his HIV+ status years after the Olympics? I wasn’t aware that people knew he was gay or HIV+ while he was competing at the Olympic level. 
 

@Daisy I think people are referring to her refusing to do media and then dropping out of the French Open. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[Lady Whistleup]

Uh criticism of Gabby went way beyond the no hand on heart thing. I remember some really vile comments about her hair.