S13.E06: Stop and Throw the Roses

[SweetieDarling]

Just now, RedDelicious said:

Eboni wasn’t aware that what she said would trigger Leah. 

Which only proves they never met before filming the show.

 

[J80134]

Racism is real, but I don't want to hear about it on a show that I watch to escape the real world. The same storyline is happening on BH, which makes it feel like bravo is very intentionally trying use racism for a controversial plot. 

Leah is such a punk ass 14 year old. Go to your room and don't come out until you can behave, Hannah Montana. 

Again with the education comparison that gets howives of any franchises panties in a knot. How about the ladies do an IQ test? I know a lot of people of average intelligence with degrees, but Mensa membership is exclusive. 

Overall, I'm pretty bored with this season, as is shown with the very limited amount of snark I can muster. 

[Bluesky]

10 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Oooh Heather NOOOOO momma, noooooo. Articulate? That was bad. Very well said @Momager.  My heart sank when Heather said it. Eboni is spot on.

It was funny in the make up apology scene when Luann told Eboni she "had to educate them." I was like oh shit here we go again with education and the irony of Luann asking to be educated. 

More embarrassing for Heather was when she “inarticulately” tried to explain she was down with the average Black American and knew plenty about Black neighborhood.     When Eboni asked I thought she might mention friends in Crown Heights or even Harlem.  Instead she mentioned working with P Diddy.   She looked like a fool.  

[bichonblitz]

 I was wavering on Eboni until this episode. Now I really can't stand her. 

1. She has become good friends with Leah in real life which means she must be just as much of an asshole as Leah. 

2. She feels sorry for Sonja and wants her to be her new pet project. Eboni should have told Sonja that if she wants to find a good man that will appreciate her she needs to stop living in the Morgan past and curb her crazy drinking outbursts. That is what would have helped Sonja. Instead she calls her matchmaker friend to fix Sonja.

3. She didn't apologize to Lu. They were both wrong but Eboni has a problem with owning her shit. Lu apologized and groveled nedlessly but Eboni wouldn't budge. It was uncomfortable to watch. Eboni is an entitled bitch.  

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by bichonblitz

[Boo Boo]

Just now, RedDelicious said:

I'm surprised that no one has called out Sonja for using a possessive term and calling black people "our blacks".

Yes!  She was doing great at first and then when she came out with that it reminded me of all the times the RHOs talk about their "gays" and treat homosexuals as though they are cute little accessories.

[For Cereals]

12 hours ago, Momager said:

There are words that evoke racial stereotypes. That’s not fiction, that’s a fact. When Luann used the word “angry”, she did trigger Eboni b/c whether u believe it or not, black women are often painted as being “angry”. It’s exhausting and it’s not on black women to stop being triggered - it’s on white people to stop giving in to the stereotype. I honestly don’t think Luann meant anything derisive or racially insensitive by it, but it’s something that Eboni was right to talk to her about. Here’s the thing, when you are a white person, I think it’s really easy to underestimate the amount of micro aggressions people of color face on a regular basis. I imagine it must be hard to understand, but trust that it exists. That’s why when Heather called Eboni “articulate”, Eboni rolled her eyes. I can’t tell u how many times I was complimented for being so “articulate” when I was practicing law. White people think it’s a compliment but the underlying sentiment is “I can’t believe u speak so well”. Why wouldn’t I? I’m a damn lawyer. And u better believe my white counterparts were never complimented for being “articulate”. It’s so important to try to understand other people’s perspectives. What’s the harm?

After reading a lot of the comments, I’ve been thinking of how to respond and I think you did it.  Thank you!

I would ask others to consider having that happen to you over and over again ALL THE TIME.  It’s exhausting and frustrating and folks are getting tired of going along to get along.  When Heather made the “articulate” comment, my heart sank a little.

I don’t think Eboni is perfect, and I don’t like that it has somehow become the POC’s role now to do the teaching and explaining on the different franchises, but I’m glad it’s happening.  I’m sure there will still be other light and fun moments during the rest of the season because costumes.  Although I’m waiting to see what Luann wears...

It’s interesting to see Sonja and Eboni’s connection.  Is it that Sonja has been needing someone to make her feel valued vs. dismissing her antics?   I would think she and Ramona and maybe Luann would’ve had these discussions.  Maybe now they’re just over it.  I laughed at the end when Sonja was trying to tell Eboni that she didn’t need a matchmaker.  

[Hangin Out]

2 hours ago, TeeMo said:

15 hours ago, Lady Lucy said:

And I'm out.  I can't take Leah one more minute.

Me too.  They are all full of shit.  They are taking direction from the boss.  The best show down the tubes.

[Ms Blue Jay]

42 minutes ago, Teriacky said:

And, to wrap it up, Heather still seems to think she is black because she’s been to “Puffy’s” house. Like Eboni said, that is NOT the real “Black Experience”.

I just realized that Heather is that person who says "I have Black friends" to point out how savvy and knowledgeable they are about race issues.  LOL.  So tacky.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Former President Obama was not mentioned on the show.  Therefore any discussion about any statements made about him, even if they were made by politicians mentioned on the show, are in violation of the site's Politics Policy.  Posts have been removed, including those that quoted posts with these references. 

Also, keep any discussion about the HWs' opinions on politicians to what was said directly on the show. 

[Feech]

Hey can we delete Eboni for talking about politics?

That would be great.

[RedDelicious]

6 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Yes!  She was doing great at first and then when she came out with that it reminded me of all the times the RHOs talk about their "gays" and treat homosexuals as though they are cute little accessories.

Correcting my post because I didn't quote Sonja accurately: 

I'm surprised that no one has called out Sonja for using a possessive term and calling black people "our black people".

[Hangin Out]

8 minutes ago, For Cereals said:

After reading a lot of the comments, I’ve been thinking of how to respond and I think you did it.  Thank you!

I would ask others to consider having that happen to you over and over again ALL THE TIME.  It’s exhausting and frustrating and folks are getting tired of going along to get along.  When Heather made the “articulate” comment, my heart sank a little.

I don’t think Eboni is perfect, and I don’t like that it has somehow become the POC’s role now to do the teaching and explaining on the different franchises, but I’m glad it’s happening.  I’m sure there will still be other light and fun moments during the rest of the season because costumes.  Although I’m waiting to see what Luann wears...

It’s interesting to see Sonja and Eboni’s connection.  Is it that Sonja has been needing someone to make her feel valued vs. dismissing her antics?   I would think she and Ramona and maybe Luann would’ve had these discussions.  Maybe now they’re just over it.  I laughed at the end when Sonja was trying to tell Eboni that she didn’t need a matchmaker.  

 

6 minutes ago, Hangin Out said:

Me too.  They are all full of shit.  They are taking direction from the boss.  The best show down the tubes.  And now the election?  I don’t believe this !

 

[For Cereals]

13 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

She didn't apologize to Lu. They were both wrong but Eboni has a problem with owning her shit. She's an entitled bitch.  

But for what?  Eboni never said she was the smartest or that Lu was uneducated.  That was Lu.  And while it took Eboni a while to get there, all she was saying was that as a highly educated person, she uses the same language Leah does, so it has nothing to do with education, but then it became about Eboni being angry when she was just trying to make her point.  ETA, I think if Eboni had gotten pissed and said, “fuck you and your dog...” or whatever above and beyond making her point or pulled a Leah, she would’ve apologized.

Edited June 9, 2021 by For Cereals

[eleanorofaquitaine]

13 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

 I was wavering on Eboni until this episode. Now I really can't stand her. 

1. She has become good friends with Leah in real life which means she must be just as much of an asshole as Leah. 

2. She feels sorry for Sonja and wants her to be her new pet project. Eboni should have told Sonja that if she wants to find a good man that will appreciate her she needs to stop living in the Morgan past and curb her crazy drinking outbursts. That is what would have helped Sonja. Instead she calls her matchmaker friend to fix Sonja.

3. She didn't apologize to Lu. They were both wrong but Eboni has a problem with owning her shit. Lu apologized and groveled nedlessly but Eboni wouldn't budge. It was uncomfortable to watch. Eboni is an entitled bitch.  

 

Wait, what? Just because someone has a friend who has a jerk, they themselves must be a jerk?  Good Lord, none of us would ever escape the label if that were actually the case. I dare say that EVERYONE has had a friend who is a huge asshole at some point in their lives.

I think that Eboni will eventually regret becoming close with Leah because Leah is unstable. But the law of transitive properties doesn't really apply to people, IMO. 

5 minutes ago, Feech said:

Hey can we delete Eboni for talking about politics?

That would be great.

Eboni isn't talking about politics. She's talking about her lived experience. That viewers may interpret that as "talking politics" probably says more about them than about Eboni. 

There are things I don't really like about Eboni - I think she's trying a little too hard to "tell the women about themselves."  Her comments about Sonja's feelings of self-esteem stemming from the way her friends treat her ignore a lot of Sonja's own actions.  So yes, at some point, she is going to have to take a step back and get to know the other women rather than trying to tell them about themselves.  But when it comes to issues of race and her own experience, IMO, she's been nothing but appropriate and patient. 

[Feech]

10 minutes ago, For Cereals said:

 

There no ievidence of that at all. Eboni is very sure of her dogma and even the kowtowing Heather wasn’t obsequious enough for her. Eboni is only here to “educate” the white ladies and by extension the audience.

It will never be enough.

Believe it not Ramona has the right idea. 
 

Eboni is injecting politics by having an election viewing party in the same way Carol did on prior years. What they are both missing is that half the country vehemently disagrees with their take and you alienate them by doing this. Why not stick to parties and nonsense the way they are supposed to and leave the politics out of it?

Edited June 9, 2021 by Feech

[bichonblitz]

1 minute ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Wait, what? Just because someone has a friend who has a jerk, they themselves must be a jerk? 

Yes. Why would anybody waste their time wanting to be friends with a jerk? Or a Leah? Unless you're a bit of a jerk yourself which I think Eboni is. 

[Hangin Out]

20 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

 I was wavering on Eboni until this episode. Now I really can't stand her. 

1. She has become good friends with Leah in real life which means she must be just as much of an asshole as Leah. 

2. She feels sorry for Sonja and wants her to be her new pet project. Eboni should have told Sonja that if she wants to find a good man that will appreciate her she needs to stop living in the Morgan past and curb her crazy drinking outbursts. That is what would have helped Sonja. Instead she calls her matchmaker friend to fix Sonja.

3. She didn't apologize to Lu. They were both wrong but Eboni has a problem with owning her shit. Lu apologized and groveled nedlessly but Eboni wouldn't budge. It was uncomfortable to watch. Eboni is an entitled bitch.  

 

Lu threw her out, then kissed her ass.  I’m surprised at Lu and disappointed.  Everyone sees differently.

[TV Diva Queen]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't think she meant Heather supported Trump. She was trying to say that when Heather said she thought Leah should vote on principle, she really meant that she wanted another vote for Biden. And Leah wanted her to know that if she voted for Biden it wouldn't be to support Heather or make Heather happy. So Heather failed at shaming her, or something.

Yes, that's what I thought. Since it was Halloween + Beauty Pageant meant beauty pageant queen who'd been murdered in a slasher movie. Carrie didn't get her throat cut, she got blood dumped on her. 

I'm the poster that said it was Carrie - yeah the cut throat had me baffled too, so I went with the crown and flowers and my head went to Carrie.  I see the errors of my ways and stand corrected  :) 

[Boo Boo]

I've posted here before that I'm not a Leah hater, but she was exhausting.  

I do think that Heather being back feels so inorganic and forced that she's irritating me this time around.  I loved her first run with RHONY.  

She clearly thinks being around Diddy and Beyonce qualifies her as understanding the black experience.  And then she makes her misstep with "articulate" after coaching the gang on how to talk to black people.  

So I wondered if Leah was around that all day long whether she just was so irritated by Heather that she used any old excuse to go after her.  Because the voting thing makes zero sense since Leah freely offered up her not voting.  The best I can do is figure that Leah is feeling the way Ramona did when Heather first came around -- highly annoyed by her all knowingness.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Boo Boo

[Treehugger]

3 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

While that's all true, I can totally relate to Ramona's intolerance for all the screaming.   Like her, I grew up in a house where people shouted/screamed at each other all the time - like a normal thing.   Every time I'm around that behavior by anyone I cringe and generally just leave.  I think Leah screams at people more than she talks. 

Help me, I'm about to be supportive of Ramona and her intolerance for the screaming. If anyone has experienced hearing loss, the loss can really do a number on noise tolerance, with or without a hearing aid.

Aging is not for sissies. I don't know how Ramona can handle the loud dinner conversations, the constant talking over one another, and the screaming. It's true that Ramona doesn't listen, but to start with she's probably hearing only about 70% of what is being said. 

[biakbiak]

Just now, Boo Boo said:

o I wondered if Leah was around that all day long whether she just was so irritated by Heather that she used any old excuse to go after her.

Given she was bitching about Heather for a few days before she even met Heather I doubt that’s the case. 

1 minute ago, Treehugger said:

It's true that Ramona doesn't listen, but to start with she's probably hearing only about 70% of what is being said. 

She’s always been like this and she also does her fair share of screaming.

[Boo Boo]

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

Given she was bitching about Heather for a few days before she even met Heather I doubt that’s the case. 

Yes, I believe she found Heather's podcast annoying.  So when you find someone's personality annoying on a podcast, you'll likely find them even more annoying if you're forced to stay with them for an extended period of time.

I'm only saying that she was looking for anything to blow up on Heather about and chose to use what Eboni told her as the catalyst to go off on her.

[Feech]

3 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

She clearly things being around Diddy and Beyonce qualifies her as understanding the black experience.  And then she makes her misstep with "articulate" after coaching the gang on how to talk to black people.  

 

If she really wanted to be immersed in the black experience Heather should join the Real Housewives of Atlanta.

How do you think that would go?

[Boo Boo]

Just now, Feech said:

If she really wanted to be immersed in the black experience Heather should join the Real Housewives of Atlanta.

How do you think that would go?

Holla!

[Treehugger]

7 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Given she was bitching about Heather for a few days before she even met Heather I doubt that’s the case. 

She’s always been like this and she also does her fair share of screaming.

Yeah, Ramona is a screamer. And she's definitely not Miss Manners. 

[Kiss my mutt]

Someone posted a link to an article about Eboni and Leah awhile back where Eboni said she felt comfortable with Leah because she was “black adjacent” whatever that means. 

[For Cereals]

38 minutes ago, Feech said:

It will never be enough.

Why not make a start before giving up altogether?

[65mickey]

5 hours ago, CrinkleCutCat said:

Preview re Leah freaking at Heather calling her “bitch”… can someone find the footage of Leah calling someone that or referring to someone as “bitch”…. Surely there is footage of that? If my memory is accurate!

Didn't Leah call Ramona a bitch when she was asked by Ramona to give Luann and her a few minutes to finish a private conversation about Sonja?  Leah then walked in on Ramona and Eboni talking and Leah went off on Ramona and in front of one of Ramona's staff called Ramona a bitch maybe even a psycho bitch. Seems like I remember this but I refuse to go back and look at previous episodes. Once is enough. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

2 hours ago, Feech said:

Eboni is injecting politics by having an election viewing party in the same way Carol did on prior years. What they are both missing is that half the country vehemently disagrees with their take and you alienate them by doing this. Why not stick to parties and nonsense the way they are supposed to and leave the politics out of it?

I don't think that Eboni (or Carol before her) is missing that at all. She just doesn't care that half the country vehemently disagrees with her take or that she may alienate those viewers who do disagree with her take. Can't say where I blame her. 

Anyway, inviting people to an election party is not "injecting politics," it's holding a party on a date whereby democracy happens. If Eboni had invited them to a campaign rally, then yes, sure. That's politics. But celebrating American democracy? There's nothing political about it, IMO. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Hangin Out]

3 hours ago, retired watcher said:

I have watched this show since it started. I put up with a lot of crazy people who have cycled in but I am about to end it. I really liked Leah last year but she is ruining the show. I did not think I could dislike anyone more than Jill. I don't think I can make it through a whole show. I'll try but it's getting harder and harder.

Jill was annoying and pretentious.  Leah is just plain nuts.

[Doublemint]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

 I was wavering on Eboni until this episode. Now I really can't stand her. 

1. She has become good friends with Leah in real life which means she must be just as much of an asshole as Leah. 

2. She feels sorry for Sonja and wants her to be her new pet project. Eboni should have told Sonja that if she wants to find a good man that will appreciate her she needs to stop living in the Morgan past and curb her crazy drinking outbursts. That is what would have helped Sonja. Instead she calls her matchmaker friend to fix Sonja.

3. She didn't apologize to Lu. They were both wrong but Eboni has a problem with owning her shit. Lu apologized and groveled nedlessly but Eboni wouldn't budge. It was uncomfortable to watch. Eboni is an entitled bitch.  

 

THIS - exactly!

[BrownBear2012]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I agree. Sonja was so refreshing in comparison. They were embarassing.

Yes! Kind of funny that here's Eboni saying hey, here's why it's important to me in a very practical sense and Leah was just like, "What? Heather repeated something I said publicly! How dare she!" and was out there yelling at Heather about how she was just telling her to vote in order to feel morally superior. 

Yeah, I think there's plenty of reasonable people who stumble into situations like this and the one person is able to accept that the offense was unintentional and the other can accept that they said something hurtful to the other person and not say it again. It's not just about gotcha/defensive.

Good points...I would add that women like Heather and Leah like to flaunt their black celebrity friends/clients as if that makes them "woke"...Eboni was quick to point out that knowing wealthy, connected, famous black people isn't the authentic "black experience" that she was talking about.

[film noire]

It's beyond ludicrous Leah is acting like she lives on Woke Woman Mountain. She treated converting-to-Judaism like a new fashion accessory (dropped once she was bored with the bauble)  is so mired in white privilege she has no idea what a Karen actually is, announced she might not vote in arguably one of the most important elections for women and minorities in history, and attempted to destroy a Black man's reputation (Michael Che) by describing him as a misogynist asshole, a fate he only escaped because he published all her texts (including the text where she oh-so-casually race-baited him - "U hate me because I'm White" - who's the Karen now, Leah? ) She also dipped a toe in the homophobic pool (saying to Che - twice! - that all the men on the Raya dating app "Look gay to me"). Hypocritical doesn't begin to cover the gap between Leah's lived reality and her Wokest White Woman crap in this episode.

And the end result is a growing dynamic that I really dislike: Eboni is quickly turning into Leah's sidekick. There Eboni is,  comforting Leah, defending Leah,  "translating" Leah's batshit crazy crap to the other women, putting Leah's needs above her own when it comes to losing a beloved family member (notice Leah could not be bothered to comfort Eboni over her loss, so fixated was she on her own needs, or do anything but jump around like a demented toddler on meth when she heard about the conversation with Luann). Fuck Leah's narcissistic shit.  It's exhausting, dispiriting and ugly to witness.

And fuck you, too, Andy Cohen.  You had a chance to finally open up RHoNY to a Black cast member and do so in a way that would allow the cast to have a compelling, genuinely thought-provoking, and (god forbid!) engaging and fun season.   Instead, you shoved Leah - an emotionally toxic rich white chick with no functional self awareness  - to the front of the line, allowing her to act as if she's leading us to the Promised Land of racial equality.  Shame on you. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by film noire

[JenE4]

I missed clicking the quote button, but special shout-out to the poster who pointed out the increased incredulity of being insulted in one’s own home a la The Godfather. They also apparently have carte blanche when reacting to anything said within the vicinity of one’s child—despite these “children” being grown-ass adults.

LuAnn was bad, but Heather was much, much worse, IMO. LuAnn managed to plead ignorance somehow, but at least she was ultimately able to listen and understand…despite not really being able to get over having her “education” questioned in her own home of all places! But, fuuuuuuuck, Heather’s attempt at being “woke” and understanding of “the Black experience” because she gave Puffy a girdle or something was beyond the pale! She was around real poor Black people in addition to the rich Black people??? What the hell? Yeah, Heather, it’s all ghettos or private jets. 🙄 If Heather was so “woke,” then she unequivocally would have known how fucked up it is to call a Black person “articulate” as a “compliment”! There’s no way she can give a whole lecture on the adjective “angry” but not know about “articulate.” Trying to avoid specifics here, but this isn’t just “2020 knowledge.” “Articulate” as a racist micro aggression has been common knowledge at least since 2008 when that word was used to describe the world’s most famous Black man—not getting political just giving context as to why anyone who thinks they’re socially and racially conscious in this day and age knows this. Would I expect Ramona to know this? No. (And, good Lord, Eboni’s “election party” is going to be a disaster with Ramona in attendance!)  But Heather for all of her preaching sure as hell should know better.

Now, being anti-Heather doesn’t make me pro-Leah. Oh, boy, she’s a piece of work! I can understand that she was getting annoyed by Heather’s misguided lecturing—and she already decided not to like her before she even met her. But, lady, Jesus. Eboni is right. How does LuAnn get off calling her “angry” for trying to explain what she meant by “educated,” and Leah has been having an extended 2-to-3-day long temper tantrum with nary an “angry” label thrown her way?! Leah takes offense to Ramona treating her like a “child” because she’s the generation between Avery and Ramona, but considering Ramona thinks of her adult daughter as a “child,” I can see why she thinks Leah probably has more in common with her daughter than with her. Just like my 89-year-old Grandpa still calls the 65-70 year olds “the kids.” Though, Avery would never speak of taking a big ol’ D to the P…

I like Eboni a lot. I can see why some viewers might prefer the “good old days” of fighting about silly perceived slights and not actual social issues because the silliness of the fights is what made it so entertaining. But this is real life, and you need to be socially aware in this day and age. No more excuses to plead ignorance, and if society learns about this on TV, then one can no longer plead ignorance oneself. This is how we progress as a society—not that the Real Housewives is the be-all and end-all of social justice and bridging racial relations! But these conversations are enlightening for the the viewers, as they are for the Housewives. Sonja in particular is really standing out for me as someone who has a better head on her shoulders than the show has made her out to have in the past. I like that Eboni is really giving Sonja that oomph to her self-worth. Their friendship is a really nice dynamic, and what I’m enjoying most about this season so far.

[Maximona]

1 hour ago, For Cereals said:

it’s not on black women to stop being triggered -

Respectfully, I disagree with this.  I'll use myself as a case in point.  I'm second generation Sicilian.  Godfather, Sopranos and Jersey Shore stereotypes make me feel furious and humiliated.  And lets not forget that the largest lynching in U.S. history involved Italian-Americans, specifically Sicilian Italian Americans.  But, you know.  Cultural sensitivity around issues pertaining to Italian identity have not yet reached critical mass.  There's no consensus behind me for telling some guy to STFU when after turning the pronunciation of my very not-Anglo-Saxon name into a baaaad comedy routine, he decides to launch into his baaaad Tony Soprano imitation.

So, I just stopped letting myself be triggered.

(And I just realized I am quoting a quote, and it's actually Momager who I am quoting.  Sorry!)

I don't see Heather's remark about having been in "the core of black America" as a gaffe particularly.  Sean Combs et al were not to the manor born; they came up the hard way.  In fact, in that sense, they have a lot in common with Eboni.   

That said, her self-appointed moderator schtick is a bit tiresome.

[Boo Boo]

26 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I missed clicking the quote button, but special shout-out to the poster who pointed out the increased incredulity of being insulted in one’s own home a la The Godfather. They also apparently have carte blanche when reacting to anything said within the vicinity of one’s child—despite these “children” being grown-ass adults.

LuAnn was bad, but Heather was much, much worse, IMO. LuAnn managed to plead ignorance somehow, but at least she was ultimately able to listen and understand…despite not really being able to get over having her “education” questioned in her own home of all places! But, fuuuuuuuck, Heather’s attempt at being “woke” and understanding of “the Black experience” because she gave Puffy a girdle or something was beyond the pale! She was around real poor Black people in addition to the rich Black people??? What the hell? Yeah, Heather, it’s all ghettos or private jets. 🙄 If Heather was so “woke,” then she unequivocally would have known how fucked up it is to call a Black person “articulate” as a “compliment”! There’s no way she can give a whole lecture on the adjective “angry” but not know about “articulate.” Trying to avoid specifics here, but this isn’t just “2020 knowledge.” “Articulate” as a racist micro aggression has been common knowledge at least since 2008 when that word was used to describe the world’s most famous Black man—not getting political just giving context as to why anyone who thinks they’re socially and racially conscious in this day and age knows this. Would I expect Ramona to know this? No. (And, good Lord, Eboni’s “election party” is going to be a disaster with Ramona in attendance!)  But Heather for all of her preaching sure as hell should know better.

 

I laughed so hard at the bolded!

And completely agree.  I was enjoying Heather's wokefest because I knew she would eventually say something that was really, really dumb.  And sure enough, she did.

Until Sonja said "our black people" I think she handled the issues of race and how we need to listen the best.  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Even though Bravo keeps tagging Watch What Happens Live onto the episodes, it it not the episode.  WWHL is future information that should only be discussed in the WWHL thread or the character threads.  

[chlban]

35 minutes ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Good points...I would add that women like Heather and Leah like to flaunt their black celebrity friends/clients as if that makes them "woke"...Eboni was quick to point out that knowing wealthy, connected, famous black people isn't the authentic "black experience" that she was talking about.

But her life is? 

[BrownBear2012]

1 minute ago, chlban said:

But her life is? 

I get the impression that she came from humble beginnings and made her aspirations to be a successful, educated person come true through hard work and perserverence...not through being "connected" or born into a family of wealth of privelege. She has earned her seat at the table.

[TheCouchPotato]

Eboni is all about strong women, female empowerment but thinks that Sonia finding a man will improve her self esteem. No, Eboni, just no. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 hour ago, Maximona said:

Respectfully, I disagree with this.  I'll use myself as a case in point.  I'm second generation Sicilian.  Godfather, Sopranos and Jersey Shore stereotypes make me feel furious and humiliated.  And lets not forget that the largest lynching in U.S. history involved Italian-Americans, specifically Sicilian Italian Americans.  But, you know.  Cultural sensitivity around issues pertaining to Italian identity have not yet reached critical mass.  There's no consensus behind me for telling some guy to STFU when after turning the pronunciation of my very not-Anglo-Saxon name into a baaaad comedy routine, he decides to launch into his baaaad Tony Soprano imitation.

With all due respect, as a fellow Italian American (on my mother's side, and a Sicilian Italian American on my grandmother's side), the bias and discrimination that Italian Americans faced stopped a LONG time ago. And while Italian Americans did face violence against them in the early 20th century, it's been about a hundred years since they faced the kind of danger that many Black Americans still face today.

The stereotypes about Italian Americans aren't great, but they don't have the same social impacts that Black Americans continue to face in American society. (And not for nothing but the Sopranos was itself a product of an Italian American writer and producer and The Godfather was the product of an Italian American writer and director. Those were attempts by Milch and Coppola to reclaim the Italian American experience and interpret it).

Point being, someone like Eboni faces way more discrimination on a daily basis, IMO, than you or I ever will. She's not reacting to violence perpetrated against her community a century ago or historic microaggressions. She's talking about stuff that happens to her and people she knows today. It's pretty easy to tell someone not to be triggered when you aren't used to hearing the kind of aggressions, microaggressions, and more that someone like Eboni hears way more on the regular than you or I. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by eleanorofaquitaine

[FancyNancy]

54 minutes ago, Maximona said:

Respectfully, I disagree with this.  I'll use myself as a case in point.  I'm second generation Sicilian.  Godfather, Sopranos and Jersey Shore stereotypes make me feel furious and humiliated.  And lets not forget that the largest lynching in U.S. history involved Italian-Americans, specifically Sicilian Italian Americans.  But, you know.  Cultural sensitivity around issues pertaining to Italian identity have not yet reached critical mass.  There's no consensus behind me for telling some guy to STFU when after turning the pronunciation of my very not-Anglo-Saxon name into a baaaad comedy routine, he decides to launch into his baaaad Tony Soprano imitation.

So, I just stopped letting myself be triggered.

(And I just realized I am quoting a quote, and it's actually Momager who I am quoting.  Sorry!)

I don't see Heather's remark about having been in "the core of black America" as a gaffe particularly.  Sean Combs et al were not to the manor born; they came up the hard way.  In fact, in that sense, they have a lot in common with Eboni.   

That said, her self-appointed moderator schtick is a bit tiresome.

Diddy grew up poor, however, he was not poor when Heather was working with him. So, no, she hasn’t been in the heart of it or in the trenches. They’re not suffering. 
 

What exactly was Eboni supposed to apologize for?

Edited June 9, 2021 by FancyNancy

[Boo Boo]

1 hour ago, Maximona said:

I don't see Heather's remark about having been in "the core of black America" as a gaffe particularly.  Sean Combs et al were not to the manor born; they came up the hard way.  In fact, in that sense, they have a lot in common with Eboni.   

That said, her self-appointed moderator schtick is a bit tiresome.

Being a stylist to wealthy, revered black celebrities does not mean she has ever been in the core of black America.   The closest she appears to have been is watching an intern have troubles hailing a cab. I don't think she dropped the last nugget of gold until Eboni side-eyed her. 

Frankly, I think she just wanted to name drop Diddy and Beyonce as if this gives her some clout and will impress Eboni.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Boo Boo

[Maximona]

2 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Being a stylist to wealthy, revered black celebrities

She was a designer, not a stylist.  Important distinction.

 

15 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

the bias and discrimination that Italian Americans faced stopped a LONG time ago.

We have different experiences.  😊. 

But I've said what I wanted to say, so no need to keep hammering. 

[Boo Boo]

6 minutes ago, Maximona said:

She was a designer, not a stylist.  Important distinction.

 

We have different experiences.  😊. 

But I've said what I wanted to say, so no need to keep hammering. 

Correction:  Designer for Diddy, stylist for Beyonce.  

Nevertheless, that doesn't mean she's experienced the core of black America.  I'll sit with Eboni side-eying her comments.  

If she had spent as much time in the core of black America, she might've realized using the words "articulate" isn't the compliment she thinks it is.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Boo Boo

[chewycandy]

15 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Whose dog was in the hall wearing the neon orange bows? That was really cute; the dog seemed worried about Leah.

Ramona’s Coco! Yes, she did, and I loved that the camera focused on her. That was the best moment this episode, along with Sonja saying the page needs to be read before the page can be turned. I really want to see this matchmaker storyline. 

Now we know why Luann was inexplicably twirling a baton an episode ago!

 

[Maximona]

6 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Nevertheless, that doesn't mean she's experienced the core of black America.

I don't wanna defend Heather.  I really don't like her that much.

This does make me curious, though:  What is the "core of Black America"?

In some ways, isn't it better to express that concept as one that embodies success in the face of massive obstacles and systemic racism?  Or is the very phrase a kind of condescending insult?

 

[Hangin Out]

2 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Wait, what? Just because someone has a friend who has a jerk, they themselves must be a jerk?  Good Lord, none of us would ever escape the label if that were actually the case. I dare say that EVERYONE has had a friend who is a huge asshole at some point in their lives.

I think that Eboni will eventually regret becoming close with Leah because Leah is unstable. But the law of transitive properties doesn't really apply to people, IMO. 

Eboni isn't talking about politics. She's talking about her lived experience. That viewers may interpret that as "talking politics" probably says more about them than about Eboni. 

There are things I don't really like about Eboni - I think she's trying a little too hard to "tell the women about themselves."  Her comments about Sonja's feelings of self-esteem stemming from the way her friends treat her ignore a lot of Sonja's own actions.  So yes, at some point, she is going to have to take a step back and get to know the other women rather than trying to tell them about themselves.  But when it comes to issues of race and her own experience, IMO, she's been nothing but appropriate and patient. 

Ebony comes off as a “ know it all”, just because she was a news correspondent on Fox and her education and Law degree.  She’s also lowering herself for being friends with Leah, unless Bravo told her to come on that way.  To me, she is not likeable.  Has nothing to do with race either.  I don’t like Leah even more.  I just do not like the show anymore since they both came on.  Judy my opinion.  I rather see LuAnn make a fool out of herself singing, or Sonja and Ramona squabbling about nonsense, like who has the prettiest dress on.  Stupid stuff as we have more serious things going on like the country and pandemic in our heads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boo Boo]

12 minutes ago, Maximona said:

I don't wanna defend Heather.  I really don't like her that much.

This does make me curious, though:  What is the "core of Black America"?

In some ways, isn't it better to express that concept as one that embodies success in the face of massive obstacles and systemic racism?  Or is the very phrase a kind of condescending insult?

 

I think Heather's problem is she's making it sound like she's experienced what they've experienced because she worked with wealthy, black celebrities and has seen her intern have difficulty hailing a cab.  That she has some sort of understanding b/c she knows famous black people and an intern.

In essence, Eboni was seeing right through Heather propping herself up against the other white women of the group as though she was the most woke because she's experienced what they haven't b/c she's worked with black celebrities. 

I mean, Heather was doing just fine before the name dropping.  And I like Heather.  I do believe she's generally a good person.  

I understand that it's very dicey and you can say something you think makes you an ally and then you turn around and show your white privileged ass too.   

Edited June 9, 2021 by Boo Boo

[Momofgreengables]

On one hand, Ebony is constantly “educating” the other Housewives; but then as soon as they lean into it and ask for more help understanding (or being “educated”), she throws her hands up and says it’s not her job to educate them.