S04.E09: Progress

[Umbelina]

36 minutes ago, Pepper the Cat said:

I have to watch it with my closed captioning on.

Ditto, but I can't tell if it's just this show, or an issue with HULU?

[mamadrama]

It was interesting to me how Mrs. Keyes was forcing Janine to eat earlier in the season and now it's Janine trying to get her to eat. 

I don't think Lawrence is on either side. His loyalty is to his own state of mind. Lawrence does whatever he finds amusing and entertaining. Sometimes that's helping June, sometimes it's helping Gilead. He's very smart and knows when to press forward and when to draw back. 

Unlike Fred who truly does seem to be a dumbass. Every once in awhile SJ looks at him like, OMG I can't believe I used to find this guy stimulating.

[Angry Moldovan]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

It was interesting to me how Mrs. Keyes was forcing Janine to eat earlier in the season and now it's Janine trying to get her to eat. 

I don't think Lawrence is on either side. His loyalty is to his own state of mind. Lawrence does whatever he finds amusing and entertaining. Sometimes that's helping June, sometimes it's helping Gilead. He's very smart and knows when to press forward and when to draw back. 

Unlike Fred who truly does seem to be a dumbass. Every once in awhile SJ looks at him like, OMG I can't believe I used to find this guy stimulating.

At least Lawerence keeps me guessing. I like his low key evil ways

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

It was interesting to me how Mrs. Keyes was forcing Janine to eat earlier in the season and now it's Janine trying to get her to eat. 

I don't think Lawrence is on either side. His loyalty is to his own state of mind. Lawrence does whatever he finds amusing and entertaining. Sometimes that's helping June, sometimes it's helping Gilead. He's very smart and knows when to press forward and when to draw back. 

Unlike Fred who truly does seem to be a dumbass. Every once in awhile SJ looks at him like, OMG I can't believe I used to find this guy stimulating.

Yeah, I've never had the impression that The Fredster, in the pre-Gilead days, was ever extended an invite to join Mensa.....

[RunningMarket]

Echoing the comments here that the scene where Luke was asking June to see Nick was odd. It was like he was daring her. His facial expressions were veering into a bit of a crazed look.

I can understand why June feels more comfortable with Nick - he understands a whole lot more about what she's been through. He went through it alongside her (as in he was physically present). Luke can only understand what he's been told.

When Serena got choked up at the thought she might be made a Handmaid back in Gilead, I played the world's tiniest violin for her.

[mamadrama]

58 minutes ago, Angry Moldovan said:

At least Lawerence keeps me guessing. I like his low key evil ways

Honestly, some of his line delivery tickles the shit out of me. Even when he's being awful he manages to do it in a way that's deceivingly lighthearted. 

43 minutes ago, RunningMarket said:

When Serena got choked up at the thought she might be made a Handmaid back in Gilead, I played the world's tiniest violin for her.

Yeah, so much for the idea that being a Handmaid is a respected, revered vocation. She knows exactly what's what. 

[FierceCritter]

Just a theory, but I figured she was keeping the cattle tag in her ear to possibly make a point once in a courtroom witnessing. "See - they stuck a numbered tag in my ear - I was livestock to them."

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, Angry Moldovan said:

At least Lawerence keeps me guessing. I like his low key evil ways

I think Lawrence is low key but always looking out for himself now at all costs.

[kittykat]

Lawrence is not anti-Gilead he just wants nothing to do with the religious, state sanctioned rape portion of it.  His only objective is creating his perfect economy.  He needs the muscle of the Sons of Jacob and the SoJ need his council for the sustainability of their vision, which is likely why they're looking the other way on him not remarrying or having a Handmaid.  He may also be on borrowed time, his deal is contingent on trade negotiations which still seem to be at a stalemate.  Notwithstanding his assistance in Angel's Flight, any empathy he had toward the women of Gilead died with Eleanor.

[Pepper the Cat]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Ditto, but I can't tell if it's just this show, or an issue with HULU?

I am Canadian and watch it on Cable TV. So I am thinking show.

[Hathaway]

1 hour ago, kittykat said:

Lawrence is not anti-Gilead he just wants nothing to do with the religious, state sanctioned rape portion of it.  His only objective is creating his perfect economy.  He needs the muscle of the Sons of Jacob and the SoJ need his council for the sustainability of their vision, which is likely why they're looking the other way on him not remarrying or having a Handmaid.  He may also be on borrowed time, his deal is contingent on trade negotiations which still seem to be at a stalemate.  Notwithstanding his assistance in Angel's Flight, any empathy he had toward the women of Gilead died with Eleanor.

Well he wasn't there, in that car anyway, when Fred and two others made up the whole ceremony/handmaid scrap, but I agree with everything else!

[Penman61]

On Free June wearing red:

In a show

• where the story's costuming is actually part of the world-building and about getting the viewer to understand the various strata and how they rank in these fictional societies' hierarchies;
• which belongs to a segment of the industry--prestige serialized TV--that prides itself on not only accurate costuming but narratively expressive and characterologically insightful costuming;
• whose episodes are actually DIRECTED by the actress playing the character in question...

I think we can be pretty goshdarned sure that the choice of having June now wear red is 100% intentional.

Then the question is why. 

And I think the answer, as others have suggested or alluded to, is that when Free June wears red now, she's reclaiming agency, just like she did in the first sex with Luke. It's not necessarily rational, and maybe it's counterintuitive for the PTSD sufferers whose trauma was not about obliterating your freedom ("Why RED, of all colors?!?"), but it is consistent with someone trying to reclaim their agency, the very essence of freedom.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Penman61

[chocolatine]

On 6/10/2021 at 12:49 PM, circumvent said:

The thing is, we don't know what forces keep [Nick] in Gilead, since he just just show up "as needed" to make some plot move forward. 

I can't shake the feeling that on some level he enjoys the position he has in Gilead. Before Gilead he was a nobody who couldn't keep even a menial job. He obviously doesn't take pleasure from subjugating women in the way someone like Fred or Putnam does, but if Gilead's treatment of women was truly anathema to his values, he would have left a long time ago. He was there when the first Offred hung herself in her room, he was there when June was raped and beaten, he was there when his first wife was executed, and he's still there, presumably married to another underage girl, and manages to live and possibly even "try to be happy" with all of those things.

[The Mighty Peanut]

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I can't shake the feeling that on some level he enjoys the position he has in Gilead. Before Gilead he was a nobody who couldn't keep even a menial job. He obviously doesn't take pleasure from subjugating women in the way someone like Fred or Putnam does, but if Gilead's treatment of women was truly anathema to his values, he would have left a long time ago. He was there when the first Offred hung herself in her room, he was there when June was raped and beaten, he was there when his first wife was executed, and he's still there, presumably married to another underage girl, and manages to live and possibly even "try to be happy" with all of those things.

In season 1, wasn't there a scene of Nick being lectured by a Son of Jacob who seemed to imply he was a n'er-do-well who wasn't living up to his potential?

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

In season 1, wasn't there a scene of Nick being lectured by a Son of Jacob who seemed to imply he was a n'er-do-well who wasn't living up to his potential?

I'm not sure of the exact scene, but I vaguely remember that he had no job and no prospects until Commander Andrews hired him as a driver. Then he was a fly on the wall to all the SoJ planning - including the handmaid "concept" - and eventually became an eye. So Nick knew early on what was going to happen and he chose to stay on that side and rise through the ranks. I've always questioned his intentions since then.

[BrindaWalsh]

I think it is entirely possible that Nick was able to step "away" for a bit.  He is essentially a high ranking general and also an eye - an intelligence officer.  He knows how to work those situations without raising suspicion and the people around him probably don't bat an eye.  He could have told his superiors that he was meeting an informant whose identity was known by very few, maybe just 1 other, or perhaps a new informant who had just made contact recently.  He could have told his subordinates he was going somewhere else.  People like Nick are trained to be able to do this kind of thing.  And people in the military are trained on a "need to know" basis.  

It even happens here.  My mom's brother was in the military, he was in intelligence.  That's all I ever really knew, it never occurred to me to ask anything, I just knew he was in the army.  At his wake, I met some of the people who served with and for him.  They told me they had no idea what he did, but if he was in the field, it was important.  That was it.  

I don't think June wearing red was anything character driven.  I think it was the show doing a poor attempt at symbolism.  It reminded me of season 1 when June and Luke are meeting in some cafe and there are these little girls playing in the background all in pink while 2 older women in long coats watch on.  That was effective.  June in a red coat as some kind of symbol of either empowerment OR her inability to let go of her past as a handmaid didn't really work.  It was too in your face.  

This episode had me going "huh" like a lot of episodes this season.  It is weird.  A lot has happened this season but it feels like not much has gone on at all. Huh.  

[AngelaHunter]

On 6/9/2021 at 9:52 AM, Bannon said:

So Nick has the Bogart part, June is Bergman, and poor ol' Luke is Muni? The writers may still be trying to shoehorn Commander Lawrence as Peter Lorre; I'm half surprised they haven't yet had Nick say to him, "I think this Is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

I think we need more Janine, Esther, and Aunt Lydia at The Red Center, and less Toronto, if they aren't going to write Toronto any better than that.

 

Exactly what I was thinking when watching tonight. Every time we switched to the Waterfords in their deluxe accomodations where they're allowed to receive visitors bearing gifts and have private chats I was just wishing we could get back to Aunt Lydia and her "girls".  IMO, that storyline is much more well-done and absorbing. Intriguing it is, trying to figure out what, if anything, Aunt Lydia and Janine are each up to. We know for sure Janine would rather die than go back to the sanctioned rapes again.

And oh, no, Luke is weeping again. Luke weeps way more than June does. It's okay, Luke,  - your tortured, raped, and traumatized wife will comfort you and dry your tears.

Didn't June originally name the baby Holly? She should go back to that since "Nichole" is the name her kidnappers/owners gave her, the way I give my adopted pets new names. Baby is very cute.

I can't see a criminal like Fred just being allowed to walk away, free. At the most he might have bargained for a lighter sentence.

[Cinnabon]

 Nothing wrong with a man crying. He’s also been traumatized.

[SourK]

11 hours ago, RunningMarket said:

When Serena got choked up at the thought she might be made a Handmaid back in Gilead, I played the world's tiniest violin for her.

I think Fred and Serena are not really getting a great story line this season -- and the characters have probably outlived their usefulness. But that scene reminded me that Serena is (I think) manipulating Fred to get him to cooperate with the Americans. Which is what she was asked to do so her deal could go back on.

So, I think the whole, "Gosh, Fred, how will you protect me and our son once you go to jail? If only there were some way out of this situation -- my feeble mind can't think of it..." bit was for his benefit, rather than the truth.

But, it's hard to read the situation because we haven't spent a lot of time with those characters lately. I honestly can't tell if she's thinking about getting back with Fred.

[Helena Dax]

I think Aunt Lydia might try to keep Janine in the Red Center to manipulate the Handmaids in a way an Aunt can't. In her twisted way, I think Lydia loves Janine so she wouldn't mind to keep her around as long as Janine is useful to the Cause.

 

 

[The Mighty Peanut]

When Lydia said Janine had given two children to Gilead, who was the first? Was she forced to go through with the pregnancy she wanted to terminate or was this an entirely different kid? I ask because we know Caleb died and that the loss of Charlotte/Angela did a number on Janine, but I can't recall her ever talking about a baby from another posting.

[Brn2bwild]

Just now, The Mighty Peanut said:

When Lydia said Janine had given two children to Gilead, who was the first? Was she forced to go through with the pregnancy she wanted to terminate or was this an entirely different kid? I ask because we know Caleb died and that the loss of Charlotte/Angela did a number on Janine, but I can't recall her ever talking about a baby from another posting.

I think Caleb was the first child.  He died with his new family, I think.

[The Mighty Peanut]

2 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I think Aunt Lydia might try to keep Janine in the Red Center to manipulate the Handmaids in a way an Aunt can't. In her twisted way, I think Lydia loves Janine so she wouldn't mind to keep her around as long as Janine is useful to the Cause.

 

 

She definitely loves Janine. She doesn't understand it and takes it out on the dry chicken, but she loves Janine. If she didn't she wouldn't have defended her and wouldn't have protested the breeding colony.

[Baltimore Betty]

If Truelo and Company are dropping the charges against Fred for information about Gilead does that mean after they get all the information Fred will be sent back to Gilead?  I would think that TPTB in Gilead (we know they are not going to help him while he is in Canada) would shun him if he were to return to Gilead, everyone would assume he gave away Gilead secrets even if he didn't...what would be Fred's future look like?  Gilead might take Serena's baby and send her to the Colonies or make her a Martha but I don't think she would be a Handmaid since this pregnancy is late in life and considered a fluke she might not be able to conceive again. 

 

[The Mighty Peanut]

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

If Truelo and Company are dropping the charges against Fred for information about Gilead does that mean after they get all the information Fred will be sent back to Gilead?  I would think that TPTB in Gilead (we know they are not going to help him while he is in Canada) would shun him if he were to return to Gilead, everyone would assume he gave away Gilead secrets even if he didn't...what would be Fred's future look like?  Gilead might take Serena's baby and send her to the Colonies or make her a Martha but I don't think she would be a Handmaid since this pregnancy is late in life and considered a fluke she might not be able to conceive again. 

 

I respectfully disagree only because Serena said herself they might make her a handmaid. I think being religious hypocrites they would say it was a favor or some shit because God saved her sinner's soul by impregnating her and thus implicating that it is now her duty to be a broodmare handmaid. This is how they would justify her betraying her country; she must repent for the sin of having recreational sex with her own husband.

Edited June 12, 2021 by The Mighty Peanut

[Umbelina]

17 hours ago, SourK said:

I think Fred and Serena are not really getting a great story line this season -- and the characters have probably outlived their usefulness. But that scene reminded me that Serena is (I think) manipulating Fred to get him to cooperate with the Americans. Which is what she was asked to do so her deal could go back on.

Oh man, I think it's been a fantastic storyline!  Honestly everything to do with Fred and Serena have been my favorite parts of several episodes.

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?"  Everything with Rita.  The trial.  Fred and Serena negotiating for their mutual benefit.  The visits from that odious couple bringing back all the memories of June saving Janine from that bridge, and the wife mistreating Angela/Charlotte.    

I've loved every scene.  I can't think of a single one that didn't move the story forward, and greatly add to characters.

10 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I think Aunt Lydia might try to keep Janine in the Red Center to manipulate the Handmaids in a way an Aunt can't. In her twisted way, I think Lydia loves Janine so she wouldn't mind to keep her around as long as Janine is useful to the Cause.

 

 

I don't think Lydia has that power, at least not right now.  She's on shaky ground herself.  My guess is that both Janine and Esther will be assigned as handmaids, but she will probably try to find the kindest, most impotent Commander for Janine.  Or Lawrence?  

6 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

If Truelo and Company are dropping the charges against Fred for information about Gilead does that mean after they get all the information Fred will be sent back to Gilead?  I would think that TPTB in Gilead (we know they are not going to help him while he is in Canada) would shun him if he were to return to Gilead, everyone would assume he gave away Gilead secrets even if he didn't...what would be Fred's future look like?  Gilead might take Serena's baby and send her to the Colonies or make her a Martha but I don't think she would be a Handmaid since this pregnancy is late in life and considered a fluke she might not be able to conceive again. 

 

Fred will be "free" to choose his own destiny.  

I can't see it ending well, or think of a single place he might be completely safe.

I seriously doubt Serena would agree to return to Gilead again, ever.  She's a monster but not a fool.  They can't very well prosecute her if they don't prosecute Fred.

5 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I respectfully disagree only because Serena said herself they might make her a handmaid. I think being religious hypocrites they would say it was a favor or some shit because God saved her sinner's soul by impregnating her and thus implicating that it is now her duty to be a broodmare handmaid. This is how they would justify her betraying her country; she must repent for the sin of having recreational sex with her own husband.

Which is why I doubt Serena would ever return.  Colonies, or handmaid, or hung on a wall are her only future in Gilead, besides she seems to be writing a book, and has actual "fans" in Canada.  Fred can't tell her what to do anymore either.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Umbelina
clarified

[Anosmia]

On 6/10/2021 at 1:52 PM, chaifan said:

I was also waiting for June to ask Nick to stay in Canada.  Clearly, he's not 100% pro-Gilead, so I'm not sure why he would want to stay there if he can get into Canada so easily.

 

On 6/10/2021 at 3:37 PM, Cinnabon said:

I find myself wondering why Nick didn’t take that chance to escape to Canada? Why does he want to stay in Gilead?

This is what I am wondering! Why doesn’t he defect? He could provide valuable intel to the Americans/Canadians and freely be with his daughter...maybe June, too, if she left Luke. Maybe he’s worried about what would happen to his new wife, or maybe he doesn’t want to give up his power as a commander, nor give up the thrill of being a spy and resistance member.

On 6/10/2021 at 3:55 PM, Bannon said:

I think it's been stated that Nick played an instrumental role in the D.C. mass assassinations which were integral to the Gileadian coup. If that's true, Nick knows he's either doomed to Gilead surviving, despite what he now knows to be an idiotically cruel, totalitarian, ideology, or he's doomed to Gilead falling, and he going on trial as a war criminal. 

This doesn’t ring any bells for me. I thought he was just a driver (and secret resistance member)—not part of the Sons of Jacob coup?

[Umbelina]

38 minutes ago, Anosmia said:

This doesn’t ring any bells for me. I thought he was just a driver (and secret resistance member)—not part of the Sons of Jacob coup?

First season, he was a Son of Jacob, we watch him recruited, and also as an Eye.

The season with the Swiss, we find out he was instrumental in the murders that overthrew the USA, and they would not even talk with him.

He's pretty stuck in Canada, a war criminal everywhere else.  Now how they KNOW about him is problematic for me, possibly other defectors, possibly had footage from CCTV before Gilead took down all electronic stuff, possible UN people who then fled, possible spies in the then USA, that fled after the coup.

[WearyTraveler]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

First season, he was a Son of Jacob, we watch him recruited, and also as an Eye.

The season with the Swiss, we find out he was instrumental in the murders that overthrew the USA, and they would not even talk with him.

He's pretty stuck in Canada, a war criminal everywhere else.  Now how they KNOW about him is problematic for me, possibly other defectors, possibly had footage from CCTV before Gilead took down all electronic stuff, possible UN people who then fled, possible spies in the then USA, that fled after the coup.

Or, playing the double, triple, quadruple agent game, maybe he already defected and he's been working for the US for a long time, and it was the US who spread rumors about some horrible thing he supposedly did, so that foreign dignitaries would not put him in a difficult position

[Zonk]

On 6/9/2021 at 7:28 PM, dmc said:

"This is essentially why victims hate deals like this, they are almost never a last resort option. I think most people would be understanding with we have tried everything and our only option is to rescue the people left there or to get this person on a smaller offense. That's a reasonable line of thinking. What's not reasonable is Tuello has bypassed every refugee that made it to Canada because he automatically assumes Fred knows more. He automatically assumes his best interest lie with Fred.

Well they have said multiple times on the show that Gilead is a black box. Doesn't make any sense, considering how careless the commanders are around other people, how many refugees have fled Gilead, that there are multiple aunts, who know a great deal, in Canada, etc.

But if we are taking that at face value, that Gilead is a black box and no refugee can help out, because of reasons... Tuello probably has exhausted all other possibilities...

So it does and does not make sense... mostly not. But that is due to the bad and inconsistent writing.

[Baltimore Betty]

3 minutes ago, Zonk said:

Well they have said multiple times on the show that Gilead is a black box. Doesn't make any sense, considering how careless the commanders are around other people, how many refugees have fled Gilead, that there are multiple aunts, who know a great deal, in Canada, etc.

But if we are taking that at face value, that Gilead is a black box and no refugee can help out, because of reasons... Tuello probably has exhausted all other possibilities...

So it does and does not make sense... mostly not. But that is due to the bad and inconsistent writing.

My first thought was June would be an invaluable source of info, remember she and Serena wrote things for the council while Fred was recuperating after the Red Center bombing, she was taken to DC and had front row seats to a lot of things, she was overly involved with Commander Lawrence, dug thru files and saw where the original Handmaids kids were and knows key players in Mayday and the Martha network...why hasn't she been talking about all that to Truelo?

[Zonk]

6 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

why hasn't she been talking about all that to Truelo?

Because these writers don't remember what they wrote four minutes ago, let alone four seasons. Sad but true.

[Black Knight]

21 hours ago, Umbelina said:

They can't very well prosecute her if they don't prosecute Fred.

Of course they can. Fred made a deal; Serena does not currently have a deal. It happens all the time in the legal system: the ones with deals go free or spend much less time in prison, while the ones without deals are prosecuted and get much longer prison sentences.

Now maybe Fred included immunity for Serena as part of his deal with Tuello. He has plenty of reason not to do so, from resentment of Serena to wanting full custody of his son. But he may find her being the biological mother meaningful to him, or he may anticipate that it's best to hitch his wagon to hers since she's the one with the ability to start movements. He already wants her to write another book...

[BrindaWalsh]

Quote

I find myself wondering why Nick didn’t take that chance to escape to Canada? Why does he want to stay in Gilead?

I'm not sure Nick necessarily wants to defect.  As others have said, he's essentially a war criminal.  However, pre-Gilead Nick was "a loser."  Couldn't keep a job, wasn't respected, short tempered, a nobody.  Gilead Nick IS somebody. He is respected, trusted, and whether it is warranted or not, he has power -- even if he doesn't agree with certain aspects of Gilead (and people can justify a lot in their minds when they need to), I'm not convinced he thinks going back to "freedom" is better.  

Quote

 

My first thought was June would be an invaluable source of info, remember she and Serena wrote things for the council while Fred was recuperating after the Red Center bombing, she was taken to DC and had front row seats to a lot of things, she was overly involved with Commander Lawrence, dug thru files and saw where the original Handmaids kids were and knows key players in Mayday and the Martha network...why hasn't she been talking about all that to Truelo?

 

I had forgotten all about that.  The show writers probably did as well.  

But this is another place where I think they did a disservice by killing Alma. She also seemed to know a lot more than she should about how things work in Gilead.  

 

[The Mighty Peanut]

On 6/13/2021 at 1:42 AM, WearyTraveler said:

Or, playing the double, triple, quadruple agent game, maybe he already defected and he's been working for the US for a long time, and it was the US who spread rumors about some horrible thing he supposedly did, so that foreign dignitaries would not put him in a difficult position

Pure speculation on my part but I've always gotten the feeling that Nick's character was not intended to last more than a season or 2, but he got popular and people started to ship him and June so he stayed on. If not then they were very sloppy with his character by giving him the one scene where the military is saluting him as he walks by and we find out he's a major player and has a lot of power; after that point I really got the feeling it was a pay-no-attention-to-that-man-behind-the-curtain sort of thing.

For example he seemed so genuinely oppressed (so far as a male in Gilead can be oppressed) between the forced intercourse with June that Serena witnessed and especially the marriage to Eden. June had to beg him to have sex with Eden because she was considering having him investigated as a gender traitor. That appeared to be a very real danger, otherwise he would definitely not have slept with a 15-year-old girl. Not long after that he just watches her drown, powerless, but when it comes to enemy #1 June he is able to protect her from execution. I get that he was undercover as an Eye to spy on Fred Waterford but that makes it seem MORE likely he would have pull behind-the-scenes, not less. 

 

[ReganX]

On 6/12/2021 at 12:31 AM, Penman61 said:

And I think the answer, as others have suggested or alluded to, is that when Free June wears red now, she's reclaiming agency, just like she did in the first sex with Luke. It's not necessarily rational, and maybe it's counterintuitive for the PTSD sufferers whose trauma was not about obliterating your freedom ("Why RED, of all colors?!?"), but it is consistent with someone trying to reclaim their agency, the very essence of freedom.

Do you think that there could be an element of PR at play for June? Right now, she's a celebrity of sorts, and could have a voice. Could wearing red be partly about reminding those around her that she is that June Osborne?

I thought that the Red Centre scenes were intriguing. Aunt Lydia has had a soft spot (of sorts) for Janine from early on, and I could buy it that she is reluctant to send her to a breeding colony*. That reluctance would probably not have lasted, except that now she has found a use for Janine, and an excuse to keep her close at hand. Could we see Aunt Janine in the future? Or perhaps a sort of prefect role at the Red Centre for successful Handmaids who retire from service?

 

* Interesting that, among themselves, the Aunts refer to it as a breeding colony, rather than using what I assume to be the official term, Magdalene colony.

[TV Anonymous]

How did Warren and Naomi Putnam walk around Canada freely? As a Commander and wife, they presumably did the same crimes as the Waterfords. If the Waterfords got arrested for whatever charges they were, wo not apply the same to the Putnams?

Edited June 18, 2021 by TV Anonymous

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, TV Anonymous said:

How did Warren and Naomi Putnam walk around Canada freely? As a Commander and wife, they presumably did the same crimes as the Waterfords. If the Waterfords got arrested for whatever charges they were, wo not apply the same to the Putnams?

They probably did not walk around "freely" for their own safety, and for others.  They could be there on any kind of diplomat mission, still trying to get sanctions lifted, or wanting to talk with their countryman who is accused of crimes.  Both would probably be allowed.

[Anela]

I’m pissed at Luke.  Having her meet up with Nick. It felt like the baby was just a bargaining chip.

Janine helped the girl to keep her tongue, but that was creepy.  
 

Serena being afraid of gilead taking her baby, and the possibility of becoming a handmaid.  I love it.  She deserves all if it.  I don’t think she cared what would happen to other women.  I don’t think that she expected them to be treated well, otherwise she would have been as kind as Mrs. Lawrence.  Waterford doesn’t deserve his freedom, no matter how much information be gives them.  

[Dobian]

Why must every episode this season include an extreme closeup of June's angry owl face?

[mostlylurking]

On 6/9/2021 at 11:47 AM, tennisgurl said:

June losing it on Tuello is pretty understandable, but its a bad idea in the long term to piss of the American government. Of course that's June for you, she has never been great at long term planning. 

Yeah I have to give Elizabeth Moss credit she really knows how to rage out. I wouldn’t say June’s been holding all this in and it finally came out, she’s never been very good at holding the rage in. And yeah, planning has never been her strong suit. She just reacts. 

I ended up feeling really sorry for Nick. He’s resigned himself to life in Gilead. I’m glad he got to see his daughter one last time. She is adorable, but is that kid ever not in a snow suit?

Is Janine going to become an aunt in training?!  I’m just glad she hasn’t been placed back “in service” yet.  Just that wording makes me shudder.

 

[mostlylurking]

On 6/10/2021 at 8:33 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

Because of the constant bad weather I have a theory on the rain and snow we see in the Waterford's detention room windows, I am convinced that it is manufactured, like fake rain and snow, they don't really get to see the real outside, (like the Truman Show), lol.  

That is so funny you said that because my husband is convinced of the same exact thing!

On 6/10/2021 at 12:52 PM, chaifan said:

But I do agree on Lawrence.  They're doing a good job with keeping his loyalties very questionable. 

Bradley Whitford is really awesome in this role. He knows how to play Lawrence so you are never really sure what side he’s on. Very subtle. Unlike the actor who plays Nick, who I still don’t really understand but I see no nuances there. He’s just blank. 

[EllaWycliffe]

1 hour ago, mostlylurking said:

I ended up feeling really sorry for Nick. He’s resigned himself to life in Gilead. I’m glad he got to see his daughter one last time. She is adorable, but is that kid ever not in a snow suit?

Well, she is in Canada, that is the national attire ;)

 

1 hour ago, mostlylurking said:

Is Janine going to become an aunt in training?!  I’m just glad she hasn’t been placed back “in service” yet.  Just that wording makes me shudder.

If they go by the book universe, absolutely not going to be an Aunt in training. But its a tv show so.... I know I have wondered.

 

1 hour ago, mostlylurking said:

Unlike the actor who plays Nick, who I still don’t really understand but I see no nuances there. He’s just blank. 

I think the guy who plays Nick just isn't that good and they didn't anticipate Nick being that long running of a character when the show started.

[ComeWhatMay]

Luke looked like he swallowed some liquid courage ahead of his conversation with June about Nick. 

Thinking back to the earlier talk with Lawrence (declared a “f***** a**hole” by Luke despite seeming to know people were listening in), where Lawrence tells June her “love f**** people up and she’s a “fountain of heartache and misery,” is he really talking about Hannah  — or Nick? I imagine Nick fathering Gilead Enemy #1’s daughter put on blast in the International Criminal Court was the impetus for Nick being made to marry again in spite of being at the front — hence the ring. 

I think Luke found his conversation with June thoroughly emasculating. June’s face when Luke said Nick’s a “big man” now so let’s use him while we can and then that look O-T’s Luke had when June said there’s nothing Nick would not do for her and Nichole. Dude, you asked for it. 

Suggesting using Nichole to manipulate Nick — “how can he say no to you when you bring him his daughter” — was messed up as was the clear implication I got that Luke was hoping Nick would decide on and facilitate a trade of Nichole for Hannah. It would have the added benefit of diminishing Nick in June’s eyes. 

By morning, with his extra diapers and sliced peaches, you could see Luke wanted to take it back. Luke loves Nichole. She’s his daughter now too. And his face sitting there when June finally got home with Nichole said it all. 

Luke and Nick were each blown away by their beautiful girls, but O-T and Max’s well played reactions suited their characters personalities. 

Luke’s tears when he saw the photos of Hannah recalled his exuberant reaction to June’s pregnancy. His desire to immediately reclaim Hannah is understandable, but naive in a way that is willful ignorance at this point. I also think Moira’s “we have a good man in Gilead” burned Luke. Tuello smiled and agreed… Hmm… 

The whole scene of Nick, June, and their daughter was gorgeous. Nick hurriedly wiped his nose and collected himself before June brought Nichole over to the window after they kissed and held one another. As much as Nick longed to hold Nichole again he was careful not to confuse or force himself on her. Remember Serena at that visit? Nick’s “my beautiful girl” and wonder as he gazed at Nichole recalled his hand on June’s stomach and head on her shoulder when she told him she was pregnant. 

June’s lack of reply when Nick told her to keep herself safe… You know she cannot do that or be happy, Nick. You won’t be able to be happy either. 

As much as June wants Hannah with Luke, she wants Nick with Nichole. The tears coming home were for father and infant daughter too. 

Tuello is the typical three-letter bureau guy making a deal with Fred and Serena. Gilead knows Fred is compromised and they have no doubt made adjustments internally, limiting his usefulness. Deals with vile people wind up costing you more than you gain and there is no justifying it to their victims. Insult to injury personified would be Fred and Serena riding off into the sunset with their son to make more trouble while June’s daughters loving fathers are left heartbroken without their children. I don’t blame June for completely losing it.