S10.E11: Andi Then We Came To The End/S10.E12: After The Final Rose

[bosawks]

I admit it I've always considered the "fantasy suite" a rent before you buy situation. 

 

My wild and baseless conjecture is that for Nick it went fabulous and Andi thought it was "meh" and Nick raving about how well it went is part of the "dude, what's your deal" cold shoulder.

Edited July 31, 2014 by bosawks

[truthaboutluv]

I think the "you can't be nice to those types, she had to be unfeeling" comments are kind of a cop-out for Andi and treading very closely to the "Nick is a psycho stalker or has tendencies so she had to be firm" which again, I kind of call bullshit on. There have been other F2 or even F3 contestants who tried to speak to the lead after in private (or hell there was Reid who showed up to propose to Jilian even after she let him go at F3) so I still don't think that makes him such a nutcase. On top of that, I disagree that she basically told him all he needed to know when she came to let him go. When Nick asked Andi on that day "was it us or something else" which I think meant whether she just loved Josh more, Andi's response was to shrug. The hell?

 

Also, the conversation wasn't very long because Nick was angry sure but notice he made little attempts to change her  mind, plead with her, convince her to rethink her decision. Also, once he challenged her and told her she took it too far, her defenses went up and she became cold from that point. In my opinion, Andi didn't come out there cold and unfeeling because "Nick is those types you need to be firm with..." it's because she thought he was going to actually challenge her on some of her actions and as many have noted, Andi does not appreciate ANYONE challenging or questioning her actions because Andi is always right. 

 

Like I've said, I feel badly for Nick. But like you said, the man is 33 years old. He's not some 18 year old kid.

 

 

I guess for me this is in line with some of the comments I read related to Nick being a guy and so somehow hIs being hurt is lame because guys are just always fine with doing it. I'm not sure what a person's age has to do with being hurt if they feel that they've been wronged or used in some way. Again, this is not a situation where Andi picked up Nick at some bar, party or whatever, hooked up with him in her mind for nothing but a hookup and he decides it's more and starts acting all hurt about it. 

 

As I said the actual issue here is not Andi making a few misleading comments to Nick, making out with him in front of the cameras and basically doing what every lead has done. It's that knowing how he felt about her and then knowing specifically how he felt about them crossing that one line, she still did it and did it despite then later stating that no, she never loved him, she knew she didn't and basically making it clear she knew she had no intention of picking him. I think it's kind of weird for Nick to be judged for being bothered and hurt by that because well he's 33 and not a naive kid. It was a shitty thing to do to him and would have been a shitty thing to do whether he was 18 or 33 but at least if they were 18, you could excuse her behavior as being an immature, self-absorbed teenager. 

Edited July 31, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Alapaki]

If I understand correctly, Reality Steve indicated that she quit her job because the leave of absence she was given to go on the show was over and she either had to go back to work or lose her job.  Going back to work would have meant she couldn't finish the show, which wasn't an option.  Which, I guess, means she knew as soon as she signed the contract with Fleiss et al that she would end up having to quit, but strung it out as long as possible to keep getting paid (?maybe?, I don't know).

 

 

I'm out of law school 20 years at this point.  But my understanding is that, these days, there can be certain student loan deferment/forgiveness/modification for lawyers who chose to take jobs with public entities.  As I understand it, it's one of the reasons why those relatively lower-paying jobs are so in-demand right now, especially with the legal job market in the crapper.

 

So it's possible that by taking a "leave of absence", instead of quitting outright, Andi got to stay on the employment roll and therefore keep that loan benefit going under Fleiss' check cleared.

 

I know for a fact (based on what I know of how District Attorney offices work) that Andi has grossly misrepresented the extent of her courtroom experience.  So I wouldn't put it past her to lie or scam about anything.

[The Evil One]

I agree with the sentiment that Andi could have perhaps explained herself more sensitively to Nick - the battle between the head/heart, having stronger feelings for Josh, but still caring for Nick - I think Nick needs to get a grip. While I can empathize with anyone who has been blindsided by a breakup, how blindsided can you be when you know that your "girlfriend" is openly dating other people? Nick made the choice to sleep with Andi as well, with full knowledge that she had two other FS dates and what could/would occur in them. His arrogance about being better than the other guys the entire season was his undoing. He had so convinced himself (and I'm sure the producers helped) that he was different and special that he could not possibly conceive that someone else was competition. And given that I've seen the plane video, he clearly did not think highly of Josh. I wouldn't be surprised if Nick asked his "made love" question, just to get his dig in on Josh. You got the girl, but I had her too.

[MsPH]

I admit it I've always considered the "fantasy suite" a rent before you buy situation. 

 

My wild and baseless conjecture is that for Nick it went fabulous and Andi thought it was "meh" and Nick's raving about how well it went is part of the "dude, what's your deal" cold shoulder.

 

I would buy that if the sex had happened on the last date, but she was still raving to her sister about the passion between them and how when Nick kisses her, she can feel it in her whole body or whatever. This was after they'd had sex, and I highly doubt she'd be talking like that if it had been bad.

 

As for Nick being one of those guys you can't get rid off without being rude and heartless, I find it a bit presumptuous in Andi's case. Before ATFR she hadn't talked to him even once after the breakup and the whole closure seeking beforehand was most likely producer-driven. And even if it was totally his idea, he wasn't creepy about it, just talked to the producers. She also handled the initial breakup pretty badly, maybe because she knew how mislead he'd feel and was already in defense mode going in there. But he really did nothing wrong, so making him feel responsible about the breakup when it was all about Josh really, and then avoiding him and then acting like he's an annoying stranger? I find that wholly unnecessary. Maybe she considered the letter an attempt to manipulate or thought it was disrespectful to Josh and that's why she had that attitude. I didn't really see it as such, and this is coming from someone who's received some desperate emails from a clinger she never even dated. I think he made it clear he was just expressing his feelings and if she was happy with her decision then he's happy for her. But perhaps Andi's had some experiences with clingers in the past and that's why she turned so cold. I just think a simple "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but it's what I had to do, because I fell in love with someone else" would've done wonders. He was being polite respectful and she was just giving him a blank stare until he muttered something about being grateful for knowing he can feel love like that, and that's when she decided to open her mouth and agree like a conceited brat. And then go on to give herself credit for never telling him she loved him and to basically say she had no regrets about how the relationship with Nick went, even though anyone with a heart would regret hurting someone like that. I thought it was uncalled for.

[Palomar]

While I can empathize with anyone who has been blindsided by a breakup, how blindsided can you be when you know that your "girlfriend" is openly dating other people? Nick made the choice to sleep with Andi as well, with full knowledge that she had two other FS dates and what could/would occur in them. His arrogance about being better than the other guys the entire season was his undoing. He had so convinced himself (and I'm sure the producers helped) that he was different and special that he could not possibly conceive that someone else was competition. And given that I've seen the plane video, he clearly did not think highly of Josh. I wouldn't be surprised if Nick asked his "made love" question, just to get his dig in on Josh. You got the girl, but I had her too.

 

Exactly.  People are forgetting how arrogant Nick was during the season about his superior and special connection with Andi...like his relationship mattered more than theirs. Each season there are going to be "24" breakups.  When you go on this show, the odds are pretty high you may be one of them!  Good point about Nick having no idea what was happening with the other two of the F3's.

 

I get the feeling there was more anger than hurt directed Andi's way and that his "sex bomb" was planned from the beginning to get back at her and Josh.  If so it does seem like his manipulation worked...he is now the story more than Andi/Josh. I saw him on ET and he seemed pretty smug (and no longer the wounded ex-lover) during his interview and seemed to not mind at all the question asked of him if he would be interested in being the next Bachelor. 

[Adeejay]

People are forgetting how arrogant Nick was during the season about his superior and special connection with Andi...like his relationship mattered more than theirs.

 

Perhaps it was because out of earshot of the cameras and the other contestants, Andi was whispering to him to “trust her”.

[caligirl50]

Adeejay - Ryan was not Trista's back up. Ryan was in love with Trista so much so that all the guys in the house backed off. Charlie was going through the motions.

I just want to say that I do think Nick was a bit delusional. He would come back from dates with Andi and say, "I'm the front runner." He didn't seem to consider that Andi may have been having the same kind of connection with other guys. He wanted it so that was the way it was. I think Andi may have known but maybe she figured he's a big boy and get over it. Should she have talked to him when he contacted her? Yes. It would have been the humane thing to do.

Also, can I just say how sad it is that posters are telling their own breakup stories that are similar to this Bachelorette ending. To them: you deserved better!

Palomar - I should read all the posts. I just wrote the same thing, sort of.

[violetr]

If Andi and Josh actually get married, some day they'll be sitting in Chili's with their three boys after a little league game, all hitting each other and throwing food and screaming "he started it!", and Josh will be braying about his brother's latest sportsball achievement, and his weird hairline and flop sweat will be even more pronounced, and Andi will think back on her comparatively substantive, passionate relationship with Emo Nick and just cry on the inside.

 

Or not, but this is what I like to think will happen. It makes me feel better about that whole Finale/ATFR debacle, which just made me feel ill.

[jette]

henripootel said:

...her 'true love' was in the bullpen waiting for his turn...

 

and by his own admission, Josh has been in there pitching ever since, lol. She's just not pregnant yet.

[Padma]

As for Nick being one of those guys you can't get rid off without being rude and heartless, I find it a bit presumptuous in Andi's case.

 

I keep going back to what an insensitive, self-centered hypocrite Andi is based on how she handled the situation with Juan Pablo. In retrospect, I wish when she'd blasted him over not being interested enough in her as a person after they'd had sex, he'd said, "Well, it just didn't mean that much to me and I was hoping you'd leave soon as I knew from the beginning that Nikki was the one I wanted to make a commitment to."

 

Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander and all.  Andi's apparent inability to empathize at all with Nick--after what she herself experienced in the FS with JP--continues to irritate me and wish CH (or someone!) would call her out on it. Compared with Andi's reaction to JP (including publicly mocking him with her friends on Facebook), Nick has treated her quite well.

[Alapaki]

If Andi and Josh actually get married, some day they'll be sitting in Chili's with their three boys after a little league game, all hitting each other and throwing food and screaming "he started it!", and Josh will be braying about his brother's latest sportsball achievement, and his weird hairline and flop sweat will be even more pronounced, and Andi will . . . 

 

 

Be perma-frowning and yelling "STAAAHHHPP!!!!"

[Mayadog]

You know, the editors play around with the scenes and don't always show them in the order that things happen.  Do we know for certain that Nick was the first Fantasy Suite date?  If his was after Josh's night of snuggling and deciding on rings, that would be even worse.  

[CorgiNarnia]

Can't wait to hear Boyz II Men's much anticipated follow-up to "I'll Make Love To You," inspired by ATFR, a tender ballad called, "Fiance-type Stuff."

[truthaboutluv]

Sharleen's recap of the finale and the AFTR. Man, I just think she's so awesome. I may not agree with every single thing she says (I've certainly given my view of that whole FS drama) but you can tell that she genuinely likes everyone involved and tried to see all sides of the issue and not be too harsh against anyone. And for all those who thought she was too Nick-biased all season, you'll be happy to know that she doesn't let him off the hook.

 

http://www.alltheprettypandas.com/recaps/episode10#comments-53d7dc0ee4b08ef1e4c6a2c8=

[CindyBee]

You know, the editors play around with the scenes and don't always show them in the order that things happen.  Do we know for certain that Nick was the first Fantasy Suite date?  If his was after Josh's night of snuggling and deciding on rings, that would be even worse.  

 

Read on another site that it was Nick first, then Chris then Josh as the order for Fantasy dates.  I believe that it Has something to do with the time/date stamps on the ABC medianet photos that are released to the press that you can tell when dates happen.

[gwlisa]

I know for a fact (based on what I know of how District Attorney offices work) that Andi has grossly misrepresented the extent of her courtroom experience.  So I wouldn't put it past her to lie or scam about anything.

I'm an Assistant D.A. and there is NO WAY in hell Andi has the experience she likes to tout. She's a 2012 law grad, meaning she wasn't licensed until November of 2012, plus she was absent for part of 2013 doing the Juan Pablo season. I have six years as an Asst. D.A. and only recently got my first murder, for which I was paired with a 20-year veteran D.A. If she did a murder trial with a year or so of experience (which I doubt), and the jury deliberated for just eight minutes (which I doubt - does she know how long it takes just to elect a foreperson and fill out the verdict forms?) then it was a slam-dunk case that they give to new people for an easy win. She's still what many call a baby lawyer, acting like she has all this expertise and is a badass in court.  If she transitions this into a job on CourtTV or some talking head on TV pretending to be a legal expert I will vomit. She's a charlatan and a fraud, as far as I'm concerned. And she doesn't handle herself very well for someone who's so talented in adversarial conversations, supposedly.  I hope Nancy Grace rejects all of Andi's phone calls. At least Nancy had true years of experience as a talented trial attorney and Asst D.A., which I can respect. She'd chew up Andi and spit her out.

[gator12]

According to former Bachelorette Ali on E!, Ali call her up to tell her that Nick never tried to contact her before ATFR and he's manipulating the media. Ali also added that according to her sources (probably Andi) Nick is not hurt and he has move on multiple time. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by gator12

[PoorerThanDead]

I might just be old-fashioned, or whatnot, but I do remember learning from all the Jane Austen I read as I was growing up that one must never lead someone on. Making sport with someone’s heart is a most ungentlemanly/womanly thing to do. As Mr. Darcy says to Elizabeth Bennet, “You are too generous to trifle with me.”

 

So, since I base my entire core value system on everything Jane Austen (and occasionally Gandhi), I have to conclude that Andi’s actions in regards to Nick were not what I personally would consider admirable. I don’t even believe that simply because the producers of a TV show pressure you to do something, that you can innocently say, “Who me? But..but…it was them,” and caper off guilt-free into the sunset with a clear, unstained, untarnished, un-bleachable soul.  I know the producers want the Bach. to lead everyone on as much as possible for our viewing pleasure and entertainment value. But, one must allow, it’s still fucked up. I think it is entirely possible to achieve drama and suspense about whom the Bach. will choose through the misdirection of editing and cleverly disingenuous talking heads. There is no need for trifling. There is no need for things such as, “everything will be alright, you should be confident, I know you’re guarded and skeptical, but open up yourself completely to me, etc.”  In fact, I’m pretty sure that even without all this leading on, there will still be sufficient suitors falling in love and getting their hearts broken to entertain us all, so have faith, America!

 

Also, I agree with this and thought it very well-stated:

She wanted to turn him into a believer and now wants to discredit everything he believed.

 

 

On another note, even though I didn’t particularly like Nick during this season, I do kind of wonder whether all the guys who were judging his intentions for being on the show have now had a change of heart and/or have apologized to Nick. Because I think that clearly he was in love with Andi. And they didn’t see it at all. They completely misread him. Probably because he is weird and introverted and doesn’t express his emotions to the guys in the same way that most of these guys do.  (Which tying it all back together, brings to mind a certain Ms. Bennet and a certain Mr. Darcy, and all the hilarious and exceedingly mortifying pitfalls that accompany prejudging based on personality type or temperament.  Indeed, ya’ll.)

[Scout Finch]

 

I don't think DWTS is what she's after.  I think she had her eye on dong some court-type TV show...

What a perfect and hilarious typo for this discussion!

[pitchy]

most everything has already been said but with that- I have never been team Nick, didn't care  much for him but the way Andi treated him was disgusting... She knew Nick was damaged goods. He told her how he was hurt by his ex fiancé, his family told her its hard for him to put himself out there.  She blindsided him . . .

 . . .

 I'm sure that is part of what Nick is going thru. The worst thing someone you love can do is be so dismissive of you and treat you like you NEVER mattered and that is what Andi did.

 

  Moreover, continuing with your thought, the person you expressed so much love for, publicly, despite earlier cynicism (and you could tell his feelings were genuine during and after the hometown dates), makes a point of saying "I NEVER loved you" in front of millions of people after weeks of such acted intensity from her and her several "once in a lifetime" proclamations after time with Nick.

 

  Way to go to make him feel as small and insignificant, like an utter fool and 'crazy' person in front of the millions watching.  Why is anyone surprised that he would ask why, then, the full intimacy (when she knew how intensely he felt) in the Fantasy Suite.  Fair question.  We are not 7 year olds. 

 

   It was an ugly thing to watch -- the cold demeanor upon just walking toward him.  All they'd had were a couple of minutes in his room to let him know that the problem turned out to be HIM (of course) and how he overanalyzed things when she "just wanted" to "relax" and "have fun."     So, she lay the responsibility in his lap, gave him no kind words as she did Marcus, Chris, and Cody (of all people) and expected him to just get over it.  She felt that watching the show would make things clearer for him.

 

  Wow.  What a prize she is.  Good luck, Josh, in any disagreement you may have with her someday.

[Mrsjumbo]

Agree 100%, pitchy.

[truthaboutluv]

All they'd had were a couple of minutes in his room to let him know that the problem turned out to be HIM (of course) and how he overanalyzed things when she "just wanted" to "relax" and "have fun."     So, she lay the responsibility in his lap, gave him no kind words as she did Marcus, Chris, and Cody (of all people) and expected him to just get over it.  She felt that watching the show would make things clearer for him.

 

 

Interestingly, that was one of the main things Nick sounded most annoyed about in the now infamous plane video, Andi's more or less saying how being with him would be too hard. In the video Nick is heard saying that one of the main things Andi said to him throughout was just how easy it was with him, how easy it was being with him and then he added that when she met some of his friends on his HTD and they asked her what about him she liked, first thing she said was, "it's so easy with him."

 

And yet when she was ending it, it was suddenly so hard because he analyzes everything. Yeah I would be confused too. And then any empathy she had evaporated quickly the second he challenged her. Her reaction when he told her she took it too far was very telling, the angry-bitch face was coming out when she almost snapped out "I took it too far…" 

 

According to former Bachelorette Ali on E!, Ali call her up to tell her that Nick never tried to contact her before ATFR and he's manipulating the media. Ali also added that according to her sources (probably Andi) Nick is not hurt and he has move on multiple time.

 

 

Yeah I saw that on E! News. Ali did a quick about face from the day before when she'd interviewed Nick and was all, "he was the sweetest person ever and I almost cried listening to him" to "oh Andi called and said this and us former Bachelorettes stick together". Uh-huh…so assuming Andi did call Ali and say this, she's basically calling Chris Harrison a liar? Because she does realize Chris Harrison is the one who brought up Nick contacting him and the producers while Andi and Josh were on vacation to talk to her and she said she wasn't ready when told by the producers he wanted to see her. And wasn't her BFF Kelly the one urging everyone to re-tweet what a creepy stalker Nick is?

 

My suspicion is that Andi assumed that night of the AFTR that Nick would be skewered in the media, public response, etc. and probably rival Juan Pablo for being the most disliked person ever on the show. But the complete opposite happened. Sure some people went on about it not being gentlemanly to say what he did but the majority of the comments I've seen has been pretty much in line with "why sleep with the guy if you knew you were not in love with him." And Nick basically took much of attention and shine off her and Josh's media blitz because every appearance included questions about what Nick said. So since the "creepy, crazy stalker I l never loved who was classless to tell the world we did it" didn't work too well, now it's changed to, "well actually he never tried to speak to me and he actually was never that heartbroken and this has all been one big ruse to gain more media attention." 

[Adeejay]

I wouldn’t put too much stock in anything Ali says.  After all this was the same woman who turned the house against Vienna and then when she was offered the lead as the Bachelorette, went around proclaiming that “poor Vienna was being attacked in the media.”

[Alapaki]

And yet when she was ending it, it was suddenly so hard because he analyzes everything. Yeah I would be confused too. And then any empathy she had evaporated quickly the second he challenged her. Her reaction when he told her she took it too far was very telling, the angry-bitch face was coming out when she almost snapped out "I took it too far…"

 

 

"I'd spend my whole life over-analyzing things" was a ridiculous thing to say.  Andi's whole point against Eric is that the show forces her to have a poker-face and not be completely open about where she's headed in terms of making a decision.  That's true.  But, given that, what does she expect a guy to do, in the circumstances of this show, except analyze and over-analyze any signals she may be sending?  And why would should think that would carry over into every-day, normal life?

 

I think that was a cheap cop-out on her part.  And it was a way of basically blaming him for taking the process seriously, or at least holding that against him.

 

According to former Bachelorette Ali on E!, Ali call her up to tell her

 

 

Hmm.  Too bad Andi doesn't have access to being actually interviewed herself, on-camera, to make those allegations.

 

Which she probably won't, because:

 

she's basically calling Chris Harrison a liar?

 

 

Yep.  If I recall correctly, none of the statements about Nick's alleged attempts to see Andi came from Nick.  They all came from Chris Harrison.  Of course Nick didn't dispute any of it.  And, according to the story, all attempts at contact went through the show.  So if they didn't happen, then Andi is calling Chris a liar.

[Lsk02]

Not to mention we actually saw on camera at the MTA Chris telling her that Nick was downstairs and wanted to talk to her. Even though that was likely a big set up by the show, it shows that he did actually try to contact her before ATFR (producer-driven or not, it was an attempt). Which is apparently not what she told Ali.

Maybe she means he didn't try to contact her privately, without the show's involvement? But are they even allowed to do that?

[MsPH]

One thing that bothers me about Josh is the way he practically has Andi in a chokehold whenever they're next to each other or just walking down the street. She's gonna have a chronic stiff neck from having his massive bicep glued to the back of her head.

 

Oh well, I'm already reading rumours about him being jealous and controlling, so I give them a few months tops.

[truthaboutluv]

Well supposedly Arie's coming to Emily's house and calling was all done independently. Of course not many believed the show wasn't behind this too but I guess theoretically if true, then yeah they can contact the person directly. But gee I can only imagine how much worse the accusations of creepy and stalker would have been against Nick had he gone that route.

Edited August 1, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Lsk02]

Ah yeah, now that you mention it, I think the rumors with the whole Jason/Molly/Melissa mess were that Molly got in touch with Jason to get some questions answered. So maybe there isn't a rule against it.

Anyway, it makes no sense that Andi is denying he tried to contact her, unless the entire backstage MTA thing was fake. Which, with this show, anything is possible, but she can't exactly call it out.

[Palomar]

It was an ugly thing to watch -- the cold demeanor upon just walking toward him.  All they'd had were a couple of minutes in his room to let him know that the problem turned out to be HIM (of course) and how he overanalyzed things when she "just wanted" to "relax" and "have fun."     So, she lay the responsibility in his lap, gave him no kind words as she did Marcus, Chris, and Cody (of all people) and expected him to just get over it.  She felt that watching the show would make things clearer for him.

 

 

Well it seems so many are upset Andi led Nick on.  Why would she be friendly and lead him on further? She knew he had been trying to contact her and was definitely being cautious and was probably annoyed since in her mind she explained it all to him in his room when she told him goodbye.  Everything is edited...I doubt the whole conversation was the 10 minutes we saw. She gave him her explanation and good wishes/kind words already but he didn't accept losing (or IMO was more pissed than wounded and wanted a little revenge and humiliation). 

 

Personally I think this guy is milking it all for what it is worth and manipulating everyone into thinking he is this wilted flower.  How many other rejected F3's do we hear from that have had the same situation. It's the premise for the show that there is a Fantasy Suite.  What goes on in there has always been private in the past...did people really think nothing happened similarly with previous contestents...who also got dumped.  This guy was a master manipulator in the house and especially now that he is pissed and making the interview rounds. 

 

[PhysNerd]

I think the "you can't be nice to those types, she had to be unfeeling" comments are kind of a cop-out for Andi and treading very closely to the "Nick is a psycho stalker or has tendencies so she had to be firm" which again, I kind of call bullshit on. There have been other F2 or even F3 contestants who tried to speak to the lead after in private (or hell there was Reid who showed up to propose to Jilian even after she let him go at F3) so I still don't think that makes him such a nutcase.

 

I did not watch previous seasons of The Bachelorette, so I cannot comment specifically on past contestants other than I stand by what I said: it's pathetic to make repeated attempts at speaking with the lead after they have dumped you on television.  It's called having pride. Besides, Nick already knew he would get to speak with Andi during the "After the Rose" special.  Love (or whatever you want to call it on this show) is unpredictable.  There is no rhyme or reason to it.  Contestants are rejected because the lead likes the other contestant more.  That's it. What more closure is needed? 

 

Consider yourself blessed that you haven't had to deal with one of these types.  I think Andi was a major jerk for what she did to Nick. I'm not defending her behavior. She majorly disrespected Nick and Josh.  I was just saying that some people, such as Nick, just don't hear the word "no." You have to be very firm with them from the very start. Since Andi's goal was to start a new life with Josh and not be buddies with Nick, then she made the right choice in how she behaved towards Nick during the final confrontation. It makes her look like an even bigger jerk, but it's necessary. Otherwise, you end up in a situation I was in not too long ago, and end up being relentlessly stalked for years. Nick will also have an easier time moving on now that he sees how cold Andi can be.  Perhaps, his accurate accusations of her leading him made her rethink her behavior around him and she didn't want to give him anymore false signs that she loved him. Or maybe she just doesn't care anymore. 

 

On top of that, I disagree that she basically told him all he needed to know when she came to let him go. When Nick asked Andi on that day "was it us or something else" which I think meant whether she just loved Josh more, Andi's response was to shrug. The hell?

 

I didn't say Andi told him all he needed to know.  I said Nick didn't say anything remotely new (except for the sex thing) to Andi during the "After the Rose" episode that he didn't already say during the breakup. He already expressed his feelings to Andi. Andi is aware he's hurt and that she led him on. He even wrote her a heartfelt letter and made it abundantly clear how much Andi means to him and how badly she hurt him.  The only thing new that he revealed during the After the Rose special was the fact that they had sex, which was meant to humiliate Andi and harm her relationship with Josh.  Nick isn't stupid.  He was very much aware of what he was doing. I don't buy his claims that it just slipped out.  

 

If this were a normal relationship in the real world, asking whether there is someone else would be a legitimate question to ask during a breakup.  However, I'm quite confused as to why Nick asked this question since he knowingly signed up for a show to compete against 25 men for the love of one woman. Of course there's someone else! He knew it was between him and Josh.  This isn't a question of whether Andi was cheating on him.  He already knew that Andi was also "dating" Josh.  Andi's response was weird though. I can't explain that one. 

Also, the conversation wasn't very long because Nick was angry sure but notice he made little attempts to change her  mind, plead with her, convince her to rethink her decision. Also, once he challenged her and told her she took it too far, her defenses went up and she became cold from that point. In my opinion, Andi didn't come out there cold and unfeeling because "Nick is those types you need to be firm with..." it's because she thought he was going to actually challenge her on some of her actions and as many have noted, Andi does not appreciate ANYONE challenging or questioning her actions because Andi is always right.

I agree that Andi doesn't like to be challenged.  All of the guys saw that with the Eric aftermath.  However, the cold, unfeeling demeanor I was referring to was Andi's behavior during the "After the Rose" special, not during the actual breakup.  During the breakup, she was immature (i.e. the shrugging), inarticulate and clearly nervous, but not cold in her demeanor.  She just seemed anxious to get it over with, which is how a lot of people are when breaking up with someone.  It's not something anyone enjoys doing.

 

There's really no way Andi could've defended herself against Nick accusing her of leading him on, because the fact is she did.  She is required to do so by her contract.  Otherwise, the show would only last an episode or two. She would look absolutely ridiculous if she denied his claims. It's also true that Andi took it too far by sleeping with Nick.  As far as I know, the lead is not obligated to sleep with any contestant, so she made this decision on her own.  

 

She probably assumed that Nick would accept the breakup graciously and move on like Chris and was probably at a loss for words.  His accusation caught her off guard  and she didn't know how to respond, which is a bit odd for someone who is a lawyer.

 

 

 

[gator12]

Interestingly, that was one of the main things Nick sounded most annoyed about in the now infamous plane video, Andi's more or less saying how being with him would be too hard. In the video Nick is heard saying that one of the main things Andi said to him throughout was just how easy it was with him, how easy it was being with him and then he added that when she met some of his friends on his HTD and they asked her what about him she liked, first thing she said was, "it's so easy with him."

 

And yet when she was ending it, it was suddenly so hard because he analyzes everything. Yeah I would be confused too. And then any empathy she had evaporated quickly the second he challenged her. Her reaction when he told her she took it too far was very telling, the angry-bitch face was coming out when she almost snapped out "I took it too far…" 

 

 

Yeah I saw that on E! News. Ali did a quick about face from the day before when she'd interviewed Nick and was all, "he was the sweetest person ever and I almost cried listening to him" to "oh Andi called and said this and us former Bachelorettes stick together". Uh-huh…so assuming Andi did call Ali and say this, she's basically calling Chris Harrison a liar? Because she does realize Chris Harrison is the one who brought up Nick contacting him and the producers while Andi and Josh were on vacation to talk to her and she said she wasn't ready when told by the producers he wanted to see her. And wasn't her BFF Kelly the one urging everyone to re-tweet what a creepy stalker Nick is?

 

My suspicion is that Andi assumed that night of the AFTR that Nick would be skewered in the media, public response, etc. and probably rival Juan Pablo for being the most disliked person ever on the show. But the complete opposite happened. Sure some people went on about it not being gentlemanly to say what he did but the majority of the comments I've seen has been pretty much in line with "why sleep with the guy if you knew you were not in love with him." And Nick basically took much of attention and shine off her and Josh's media blitz because every appearance included questions about what Nick said. So since the "creepy, crazy stalker I l never loved who was classless to tell the world we did it" didn't work too well, now it's changed to, "well actually he never tried to speak to me and he actually was never that heartbroken and this has all been one big ruse to gain more media attention." 

 

What funny is that all the media round that Nick did, he was with the Producers of the Bachelorette. If she's accusing Nick of manipulating the media she's basically accusing ABC/Bachelorette of manipulating the media 

Edited August 3, 2014 by gator12

[violetr]

It was an ugly thing to watch -- the cold demeanor upon just walking toward him.  All they'd had were a couple of minutes in his room to let him know that the problem turned out to be HIM (of course) and how he overanalyzed things when she "just wanted" to "relax" and "have fun."     So, she lay the responsibility in his lap, gave him no kind words

 

Even Andi's buddy Sharleen made this point, and Sharleen was pretty supportive of the way Andi handled things with Nick over all. 

[gator12]

I want to know how Nick is manipulating the media. All he's been saying are nice thing about Andi and Josh. He could have done an Andi and trash her like she trash Juan Pablo and is trying to do with Nick 

[backformore]

"I'd spend my whole life over-analyzing things" was a ridiculous thing to say.  Andi's whole point against Eric is that the show forces her to have a poker-face and not be completely open about where she's headed in terms of making a decision.  That's true.  But, given that, what does she expect a guy to do, in the circumstances of this show, except analyze and over-analyze any signals she may be sending?  And why would should think that would carry over into every-day, normal life?

Good points!   And it makes me flash back to the "Eric incident".  Eric pretty much said she had a poker face, and thant, because of this being a show, he was having difficluty knowing when she was being real and when she was acting.   Andi got outraged, and eventually went to the group of guys who were left and demanded that anyone who thinks she has a POKER FACE (spitting out the words like it was a horrible accusation) needed to step up and say so right now, and they can leave, because she's taking this seriously and it's REAL.  

 

Andi has shown that angry, self-righteous side of her too many times.  She does indeed have a poker face, holding in her irritation and anger until she is PISSED, and then she turns cold and ugly.  She's a person who can't have an  argument with a guy, because she will yell, misinterpret what he says,  shut him down, and walk off in a huff.   She's done it with Juan Pablo, Eric, with the group,  and with Nick. 

your turn is next, Josh - look out!

[Palomar]

I want to know how Nick is manipulating the media. All he's been saying are nice thing about Andi and Josh. He could have done an Andi and trash her like she trash Juan Pablo and is trying to do with Nick

 

 

His "I'm so broken...why did you have sex with me if you didn't love me" "Ooops it just came out...sorry about mentioning it on tv but I really wish you well" act making it about him at the ATFR. Obviously some people are buying it and some are not. I can't imagine someone like Chris doing that. That's a sneaky way of trashing her. Andi and Josh said they thought it was a classless thing to say when asked directly in an interview (and that is theirs and many other's opinion...should they have said it was classy?). Haven't heard anything else that could be considered trashing since then.

[Alapaki]

His "I'm so broken...why did you have sex with me if you didn't love me"

 

 

I'm no Nick fan.  I commented on the creepy-clingy vibe I got off him (and Marcus, for that matter) about mid-season.  

 

But I don't think Nick is saying "why did you sleep with me if it didn't matter to you."  He's saying "why did you sleep with me when you knew what it meant to me."

 

I think that's a pretty significant distinction.

 

And for all the straw-man arguments about a double-standard against Andi (I really haven't seen any reputable recap/reviewer try to slut-shame Andi), I think dismissing the possibility that Nick could actually be hurt in that way is itself a double-standard against him.

 

To be sure, I agree that slut-shaming exists and it's reprehensible.  And I'm certainly no "men's rights activist".  And I'm open to the possibility that Nick is playing everyone, disingenuously, for sympathy.  But, if he is playing everyone, my point is that he's doing it really well.

[Ketzel]

I'm no Nick fan.  I commented on the creepy-clingy vibe I got off him (and Marcus, for that matter) about mid-season.  

 

But I don't think Nick is saying "why did you sleep with me if it didn't matter to you."  He's saying "why did you sleep with me when you knew what it meant to me."

 

I think that's a pretty significant distinction.

 

And for all the straw-man arguments about a double-standard against Andi (I really haven't seen any reputable recap/reviewer try to slut-shame Andi), I think dismissing the possibility that Nick could actually be hurt in that way is itself a double-standard against him.

 

To be sure, I agree that slut-shaming exists and it's reprehensible.  And I'm certainly no "men's rights activist".  And I'm open to the possibility that Nick is playing everyone, disingenuously, for sympathy.  But, if he is playing everyone, my point is that he's doing it really well.

 

Yes, but even if you frame the question as the second variant, Nick is still being a manipulative putz, imo. Here are some possible Andi answers that could significantly affect his role as the naïve and callously led on victim:

"Eh, I thought I'd throw you a bone, since you were so eager for it, it didn't mean much to me and at least you'd have that to remember after I dumped you."

"Well, you were all over me, so I figured, why not? It's not as if you demanded I swear undying love for you before you had your pants off  and I figured Josh would understand a pity fuck under the circumstances.."

"Good God, Nick, everything meant so much to you. Since you wanted to do it and I actually didn't think it was possible (given everything you'd said and done at that point)  for anything I did to make you more invested, it never occurred to me that I was, as you claim now, crossing a line."

Edited August 1, 2014 by Ketzel

[MsPH]

And I'm open to the possibility that Nick is playing everyone, disingenuously, for sympathy.  But, if he is playing everyone, my point is that he's doing it really well.

 

Indeed. If he was acting the other night, then some movie producers need to snatch him up, because that was some Oscar level stuff right there, with the shaking and all.

[nutty1]

Still Team Nick.

In one of his interviews, he explained that he was very clear about telling Andi he knew she couldn't say "I love you" back, so he told her he goes by her actions toward him. So I could totally see why he felt he was the final one.

 

I love whoever came up with the term many posts back…."sex bombing"!!

[Armchair Critic]

When Ali was asked earlier who Andi might pick she said something kind of sarcastic like she would make the unoriginal pick of Josh. Now she is on Ali's side, so I don't put much stock in what Ali says.

[NikSac]

So I pretty much think Andi treated Nick horribly in this whole thing - and I'm not "slut shaming" her, I just think she was nasty and heartless. But I must ask, what is "doing fiancee stuff"?  That sounds so much like something a teenager would say, not a man in his 30s.  In my opinion and all.

[truthaboutluv]

But I must ask, what is "doing fiancee stuff"?

 

 

According to Nick, in one of his media interviews, he was referring to more than just the act itself and instead all of the intimacy they shared that night. According to him, it was more than just the physical acts but the things that were said to each other and shared with each other. And if you watch his video message to Andi after the FS, he does reference how the night had all of the parts of their relationship - it had the passion, the subtlety, the connection, etc. So basically I think in Nick's mind "doing fiance stuff" was as he said, they made love rather than just had a "wham, bam," quickie. 

 

Since it was revealed on the MTA that Marcus slept with more than 20 women (I admit I kept changing channels while this was on)- was it ever revealed how many women Nick slept with?

 

 

Nick wasn't on the group date when they took the lie detector test.

Edited August 2, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[PreBabylonia]

I might just be old-fashioned, or whatnot, but I do remember learning from all the Jane Austen I read as I was growing up that one must never lead someone on. Making sport with someone’s heart is a most ungentlemanly/womanly thing to do. As Mr. Darcy says to Elizabeth Bennet, “You are too generous to trifle with me.”

 

So, since I base my entire core value system on everything Jane Austen (and occasionally Gandhi), I have to conclude that Andi’s actions in regards to Nick were not what I personally would consider admirable. 

 

 

As a longtime fan of Austen, I heartily agree. And I'm inspired to also base my core values on her writing! Thanks for the inspiration.....

I too haven't been a fan of Nick - I found him smarmy and too full of "likes" although I found the controversy with the other bachelors to be ridiculous. I did enjoy his early interviews though and on paper, his skepticism would have made him my top choice. I've never found him very attractive though and I hated his style sense - almost as bad as black & white Cookie Boy. (Forgot how to spell his name). But that all went out the window when I saw him on the finale. Maybe I root for the underdog, maybe I'm just totally turned off by dopey jock types, or maybe I despise the way Andi treats anyone that questions or challeges her. I do hope that his appearance doesn't negatively affect his future career and romance prospects. He definitely came out of it looking much better than Andi though. I liked her until the night she went off on Eric, and haven't had any use for her since. 

[Divagalore]

I want to know how Nick is manipulating the media. All he's been saying are nice thing about Andi and Josh. He could have done an Andi and trash her like she trash Juan Pablo and is trying to do with Nick 

 

 

This is why I never cared much for Andi...Considering she knew early on that Josh was the man she wanted, she never should've lead Nick on.....especially by sleeping with him. With him being one of the final 2, he probably felt he had a legitimate chance with her, and was possibly falling in love with her. Now here it was last season everyone dogged out Juan Pablo for how he supposedly treated her, but it looks like she's basically done the same thing with Nick. Whether he lasted to the final 2, or not if she didn't feel for him like that she never should've been intimate with him. Based on the way Andi can act pretty cold at times, Nick trying to get in touch with her off camera to talk is probably true, JMO

[bosawks]

Nick's apparent enjoyment of his "Andi's a Ho" media tour has actually made me think they would've been a good match......

[Padma]

Nick's apparent enjoyment of his "Andi's a Ho" media tour has actually made me think they would've been a good match......

 

Where's Nick said anything at all like that? I've been surprised by all the criticism Andi's gotten JUST because she slept with both men (not because she led Nick on or slept with him while being "madly in love with Josh the whole time"). Andi's problem, to me, isn't that she's a "ho", it's that she's a selfish user.

 

She was furious with JP for being genuine (i.e. emotionally disengaged) after they had sex. But she thinks she's wonderful and beyond reproach for doing "fiancé stuff" (i.e. being emotionally intimate after sex) with Nick, then cutting him dead and saying she never cared at all.

 

She got away with screaming at Juan Pablo for leading HER on and got her friends to help her make America despise him. If hJuan Pablo had treated Andi the way she treated Nick (if JP had given Andi every reason to think he returned a deep, sincere love and desire for marriage when they slept together--then coldly dumped her, chose someone else and said on television he never cared at all), how much would America hate him?

 

It still boggles my mind how she could go through that with JP on the show, blast him and shout her outrage to America, and then turn around when it was HER turn and do worse than that to Nick.  I guess it shouldn't surprise me that she misrepresents her law career. If she's looking for a tv career, I think she should forget about Court TV and instead contact Andy Cohen about joining "Real Housewives of Atlanta/" She's just the kind of screaming, self-centered bitchy harpy that he loves to put on television.   

[truthaboutluv]

And I don't even know when he said it (was it when she was letting him go the day of the rose ceremony?), but is it possible that he was trying to protect her, so to say, by not coming right out and saying they had sex but rather being a bit vague about it?

 

 

He said it during the AFTR special. I think he actually said it after dropping the bombshell that they slept together. The only thing he said when Andi was letting him go that first made some suspect she slept with him, was that she took it too far in leading him on.

[TiredMe]

She got away with screaming at Juan Pablo for leading HER on and got her friends to help her make America despise him.

Well in her defense, she didn't need to get her friends to help in hating Juan Pablo, we all already hated him. Lol

[MsPH]

It still boggles my mind how she could go through that with JP on the show, blast him and shout her outrage to America, and then turn around when it was HER turn and do worse than that to Nick.  I guess it shouldn't surprise me that she misrepresents her law career. If she's looking for a tv career, I think she should forget about Court TV and instead contact Andy Cohen about joining "Real Housewives of Atlanta/" She's just the kind of screaming, self-centered bitchy harpy that he loves to put on television.   

 

She's just a Mean Girl personified. The fact that she's besties with Kelly and Nikki says it all. Their tweets sound like they're all still in high school. For example:

"So lucky to have some of the baddest betches in the world in my corner! Love you @Nikki_Ferrell and @kellytravisty #youcantsitwithus"

 

She may be softer around Josh while they're still in their honeymoon phase, but after a few months, when he's still chewing with his mouth open, all hell will break loose.