S10.E11: Andi Then We Came To The End/S10.E12: After The Final Rose

[jumper sage]

Wow that Nick was quite the asshole, no?

 

But the Men Tell All taping was only a few weeks ago, and Andi still refused to talk with Nick at that point, citing she wasn't ready?

I bet she is regretting not attending that closed door meeting.

 

Like Nick, I feel like such a fool because I have been defending Andi this entire season. Well after her horrible, cruel, cold attitude toward Nick last night, I kinda hate her now. She was so awful to him. Way to rub salt in the wound, lady.

We have been saving you a seat on the couch Violetr.

 

I almost died when Nick outed her.  I laughed and I laughed.  I want to think he penis is curved or deformed in some way but he has been really creepy all season.  Now everytime Andi and Josh fight Josh can say, 'Yeah but you slept with Nick".

[ribboninthesky1]

I just thought about something that has piqued my curiosity.  On the plane video, Nick alludes to trying to get Andi to change her mind.  Which implies that some of their conversation when she sent him home wasn't shown.  If that's accurate, I wonder if Nick brought up the "But we made love" aspect then?  If he didn't, I can understand why it's in poor taste to bring it up on national TV two months later.  If he did indeed try to change her mind, and he realized how stubborn she was on the plane back home, then I really don't see the point in writing the letter or wanting to talk to her AGAIN in private. Sounds like he had that chance in the DR, and it didn't make a difference.  

[Padma]

I don't fault Nick at all. Apparently Andi sees nothing wrong with telling him she was leading him on--lying to him, that is--all along. She doesn't think that's wrong at all, even when you KNOW, without any doubt, that the man is in love with you and is going to be heartbroken and publicly dumped on national television--to his family and friends (and the internet)--in a couple of weeks.

 

Why sleep with him when you have privacy (finally) and don't have to go that far, encourage his hopes that much more than you already have? She says she knew it was a lie and she's okay with that, has zero sympathy for him and takes no responsibility for hurting him.

 

I still can't get over that this is the same woman who was so OUTRAGED at Juan Pablo. She's a heartless shrew and Nick (and Josh, and Chris and... are all too good for her.) I wonder what Josh's family thinks?  It's not just that she took sex with Nick so casually (apparently just as a way of stringing him along emotionally in case Josh bailed after the FS). It's that her attitude toward someone else's feelings is so lacking in basic empathy and so heartless.

 

Josh actually won me over as a nice guy (and, again, impressed by his Spanish--and kiss for Grumpy Cat.) They're adorable together, but having seen Andi's "dark, selfish, bitchy side", I think he can do a lot--LOT--better.

[LuLu123]

After reading the recaps this morning, I find myself having little or no sympathy for anyone in this season's fandango.  There have been several leads (male and female) who have slept with more than one of their final 3, although they like to pretend otherwise (see Emliy).  The show has always done the "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" but it got confirmed this time.  Whoop-de-doo!

 

Nick might have gotten "shafted" by the villian/heartbroken, can't move on edit this time around but as had been said time and again "they can't use, what you don't give them". 

[AV8n]

I bet she is regretting not attending that closed door meeting.

 

I doubt any meeting between the two of them would have been private.  TPTB would have been sure to have a camera on them.

[violetr]

We have been saving you a seat on the couch Violetr.

 

Touche, but I still really like Nick! Like Sharleen, I never got the creepy vibe. Part of me would like to see him participate in this franchise again, but I think he's probably had enough and will run far, far away.

[MsPH]

I doubt any meeting between the two of them would have been private.  TPTB would have been sure to have a camera on them.

 

Yes, but she might have been able to convince them not to air the "why did you sleep with me if you didn't love me back" segment. Now she had no choice. I suspect that's actually why she wouldn't speak to him "in private". She didn't want to discuss the matter and thought he wouldn't dare mention it in public. Well tough luck, Andi. Maybe you should've shown a bit of compassion or at the very least admitted that you did in fact have some feelings for him as well. Making someone feel like they were delusional to think their feelings were reciprocated is just too cruel. Especially so, when they can watch you raving about the connection and passion between you two on TV week after week.

[leighdear]

These were Nick's words from the plane video, so there had to be a LOT we didn't see.  He got his freakin' closure.  Seriously, if you GET closure, great for you.  But nobody can just demand it.  "I NEED MY CLOSURE, NOW!"  WTF?  Entitlement much, Nick?

And I just kept saying it, just cuz I wanted…you know…and I said to her, I’m like ‘You don’t think I…’ and then, you know, instead of arguing with her I said, ‘You know what? I disagree.’ And I just left it at that…You know, I didn’t try to change her mind, I’m just like, ‘I disagree.’”
 

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by leighdear

[henripootel]

When Andi and Josh were going on and on about who loved who more, I was disappointed that they didn't call each other "schmoopy".

I was put more in mind of the time that Jeff and Britta played chicken over their 'being in love'. 

[Secret]

Did anyone already post the letter that is supposedly what Nick wrote to Andi?

https://m.facebook.com/notes/the-bachelorette/andis-mystery-letter/10153069282652846

This makes me appreciate Nick a bit more, BUT his hemming and hawing to get his thoughts out would drive me crazy! That alone would be enough to just say no, no matter the chemistry or tingles.

While she may have made the safe choice, that's her choice. While I appreciate a bit of boat rocking on ATFR, I think his question re: the fantasy suite was a bit crass.

Good luck Josh & Andi. May you have dark haired, athletic babies with really good teeth.

[Quinn13]

Andi's mom calling Josh 'chaotic' was so on point I actually applauded. He strikes me as manic, like, almost drugged up or something. His proposal was a shouty, sweaty mess. He was like a coach in a locker room. I hated their weird, aggressive kissing & 'I love you's. I had to mute my TV.

That being said, I think they are a better match than Andi & Nick. She is a tough cookie and I think his happy go lucky, dumb dog demeaner will balance her out.

I felt terrible for Nick. I literally felt almost sick while watching his face once he started realizing what was happening. This process is terribly messed up and I think yesterday's episode may have finally cured me of my addiction to this asinine show.

I thought he was kind and gentlemanly when Chris asked him if he thought Andi made a mistake. He complemented Josh and deflected the question. But when Andi came out riding on her high horse, I think his demeaner changed. When she actually had the nerve to say 'I think you are grateful for me showing you that you can fall in love that deeply', I shook my head at how self centered and pompous she was. And again, as many, many have said on here and twitter and anywhere else, if Andi were a dude and Nick a girl-she'd be applauded for calling the fantasy suite out. I call such bullshit on people saying he's classless for bringing it up. Breakups aren't easy. When feelings are hurt, things are said. Maybe if she had spoken to him earlier as he asked and asked he could have asked her these things in private.

I was a fan of hers during Juan Pablos season. But she lost me after yesterday. Too heartless.

[Freelancer]

Man oh man oh man. Confession: I stopped watching after she had that fight with Eric. She went from so-so for me to totally unlikeable with her indigence and refusal to consider his point of view. I had only watched JP's season for a few episodes, so I wasn't as enamored with her as those who had watched, and all I saw was a self-centered, dig-in-her-heels, not-particularly-empathetic figure. 

 

Anyhoo, all of this is say that this current Nick debacle is of no surprise to me. There were several times throughout the season where Andi really showed her true colors, and I just thought: Ugh, why am I watching some stone-cold bitch dick around a bunch of in-the-bubble guys? (I know, I know, that's the show! But I generally have to at least tolerate the lead to justify spending two hours of my week watching it.) Listen, sure, leading these guys on is part of the deal. Showing absolutely no empathy and responsibility is not. (As plenty of others have said already.) 

 

Good luck, Josh! I can only imagine how the fights will play out in your house. (Actually, I will imagine it: Andi will always be right.)

 

ETA: Quinn13: I felt the same way watching the Emily-Arie break-up. That's when they started to lose me as a religious viewer. Add in the gross treatment of Brooks (and humiliating Des, who admittedly, I was never a fan of, but yeesh), and I was finally (nearly) cured of this crap.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Freelancer

[threebluestars]

You can't really win on this show, and everyone going on it should know that.

 

If the Bachelorette claims to be torn between two loves, then the final guy gets the whole "how can you say yes to marrying me if you loved another guy too?" and the relationship seems like it's not "true love" if he or she was torn up until the last minute. Whereas if you claim he was the only one the whole time, you're accused of leading the other one on.

 

As the lead, you will always look like a jerk in some form because the show is set up to keep everyone in the dark about who the front runner is. There's no way around leading someone on or being "torn between two loves" because that's exactly what the show is set up to do.

 

Now, since this show has been on for eons of bad relationships, every single damn person on it should know going in the lead could be faking their ass off as mandating by their damn contract and prepare themselves accordingly.

[panthergirl13]

These people are all insufferable, all four of them (Chris Harrison included). And because of that, I *loved* it when Nick blew the door off the Fantasy Suite. I only wish he had taken full advantage of the "LIVE" aspect and kept going with the details... "Why did you blow me?? And twice!"

[backformore]

Quinn13:  Andi's mom calling Josh 'chaotic' was so on point I actually applauded. He strikes me as manic, like, almost drugged up or something. 

I agree.   Nick may have trouble getting his words out, but Josh, at that  point  was talking a mile a minute, like he chugged two energy  drinks in the car on the way over.  His words were running into each other, he was difficult to understand.  

 

Part of me wonders if Andi chose Josh because  she wants to be the smart one in the relationship.  She likes a strong man, but she wants the stereotypical macho type, who plays sports and shoots guns and is aggressive and take-charge.    BUT -  she doesn't want to be challenged, she doesn't want a guy who will ask the bigger questions or challenge her ideas.    She fell hard for Juan Pablo, and now for Josh, both of whom strike me as similar types.   Both had the same way of seeing their lives and their personalities in terms of their sport.  She just switched out soccer for baseball and football. 

[Crumpet]

LOL panthergirl13. That would have been amazing.

His proposal was a shouty, sweaty mess. He was like a coach in a locker room. I hated their weird, aggressive kissing & 'I love you's. I had to mute my TV.

Me too. I just cannot deal with his...I don't know...face. Combined with his clichéd words and cheesy grin, it's too much. Not even Grumpy Cat could get me to watch their interview.

[leighdear]

Josh may not be the most brilliant contestant, but he did manage to get a business degree in the normal 4 years, then get a job in finance.  Sure he may have sports connections and his brother, but he's had to do the job for the last couple of years.  I don't imagine he's been able to skate on just his looks.

[ramble]

I couldn't give a fig about any of these people. I watch for entertainment & the fakery of love finding. If any of these bozos didn't know the score going in then more stupid marks in their tally. It's a reality competition & the prize is a TV proposal that needs to last a couple of weeks after the final episode is aired. C'mon contestant #2, let it go! You didn't win but the consolation prize of travel & some possible commitment free sexy times ain't half bad.

Nick's inability to speak coherently made me want to slap him every time he used a speech filler, but that would've broken my hand after one conversation. His clinginess was unattractive. If he really thought he'd found his one & only then poor, deluded him for not remembering he was on a reality show. This isn't real life & you weren't dating exclusively. At any time anyone could be dumped.

I don't care one way or the other about Nick outing the fantasy suite sex. We all know it's a possibility. I think it was classless of him, just like I think it'd be classless of a woman to do the same. But good grief, you're a grown up & if you can pull your panties off & screw then you can pull on your big boy panties & keep your mouth shut.

[JodhaBai]

'I think last night was a lot of closure for me, just seeing her demeanor with me, I don't know where it came from,'

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2710216/Nick-Viall-insists-never-meant-humiliate-Bachelorette-Andi-Dorfman-revealing-TV-love.html

[nutty1]

I am Team Nick all the way, for all the reasons everyone stated.

 

The first thing I thought of when Nick asked her the now infamous question, was how Mama Murray reacted at her grand finale party that was all over Facebook for weeks! I would have paid to have been there!!

[TheFinalRose]

The first thing I thought of when Nick asked her the now infamous question, was how Mama Murray reacted at her grand finale party that was all over Facebook for weeks! I would have paid to have been there!!

 

 

OMG I was thinking the same thing only I thought they might have been in the studio audience.  AWKWARD.

[Former Nun]

First time on this forum and I'm surprised there are Nick fans.  I didn't watch every episode...and didn't watch "fully" of the ones I did see. What I got from Nick was one of those typical contestants: I didn't come here to make friends.  If every man on the show thought/thinks Nick is a creep, perhap Nick is a creep.  The show and the romances are jokes anyway...but I would like to see just how in depth the psychological testing is for these people who expect to find a "one true love" on reality television.  Then...those who don't are suddenly swept away to "Paradise."

[Beebee111]

 

Quinn13: I felt terrible for Nick. I literally felt almost sick while watching his face once he started realizing what was happening. This process is terribly messed up and I think yesterday's episode may have finally cured me of my addiction to this asinine show.

 

Yea. ITA. What is going to get me to stop watching this mess? I have so many problems with 'the process,' and with knowing that there are people who find it so easy to be so cavalier (as Nick put it) with other's emotions. Just wow! I'd much rather watch Bachelor Pad/Paradise where it's an equal opportunity shite fest. I think the recent happenings and prospect of reformed felon, businessman and farmer Chris bachelor may just do it.

 

 

Backformore: Part of me wonders if Andi chose Josh because  she wants to be the smart one in the relationship.  She likes a strong man, but she wants the stereotypical macho type, who plays sports and shoots guns and is aggressive and take-charge.

 

YES & YES. The person she came out as today (maybe Eric Hill was right about her acting) was so unappealing, I wonder how many of the guys on the show had any genuine interest in her if they saw through it all. Granted, thanks to you guys, I did a lot of fast forwarding.

 

I really wouldn't mind seeing the Josh/Andi thing implode (yeah, I said it too) if only because I don't want to have to keep hearing about them, except as a poor reference of something.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Beebee111

[Andromeda]

Thank you for saying this so I didn't have to. :) That said, I'm actually very impressed with this forum that there hasn't been much of this kind of talk. Cultural progress! For the record, I will be the first person to scream "slut shaming" if I think it's happening. In this case, though, I think Andi sleeping with Nick was just her being a selfish dick.

 

You're welcome. I was a little worried I'd come off as too critical of my fellow posters (who I appreciate muchly), but wanted to express my opinion.

 

Nick had every opportunity for closure. Just knowing she's engaged should be closure enough. I still wonder what he really wanted her to tell him that would satisfy him. Because nothing short of "I changed my mind and want you" would do it.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Andromeda

[leighdear]

Chris Harrison's blog makes it crystal clear that he explained to Nick at  that the MTA Andi & Josh were happy in their relationship.  Closure.

 

http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/07/29/chris-harrison-blogs-the-bachelorette-andi-finale/

 

But Nick STILL wouldn't take no for an answer.  Just mind boggling.  At that point, it wasn't love, but an unhealthy obsession. He then took that obsession to the lowest level possible.  And on National TV.

Edited July 30, 2014 by leighdear

[truthaboutluv]

First of all, the idea that Nick just showed up at the MTA, like the producers were unaware is even more laughable than that Bukowski mess at the start of the season.

Also I'm not sure how this blog said anything that wasn't already known. YMMV but I don't understand how CH saying Andi and Josh are happy equates to closure for Nick. How does that answer his questions about feeling led on, wondering if he imagined everything they shared, if it was all for show, etc. These were the things he was seeking closure on and I fail to see how CH saying "she and Josh are happy" answered any of that.

Edited July 30, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Rhondinella]

From Harrison's blog post linked above:

 

She made her decision and she did the best to make it very clear to him in the Dominican why she was making that decision. She knew she would be sitting down with him a week later on After the Final Rose, so she decided that would be the appropriate time and place to do so. I have no idea what was in the letter that Nick gave Andi.

 

 

How many blatant lies can the guy tell in the space of two sentence?  The ATFR was "a week later" than the FRC.  Riiiight.  More like 2 months. He doesn't know what was in the letter?  Dude, the producers posted it on FB yesterday!  Pffffft.  Whatever.  I have no respect for the guy left so I don't know why it bothers me.

[truthaboutluv]

I think he was talking about her declining to meet with Nick at the MTA by saying that she figured that she would be seeing him in a week on the AFTR. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Lilac2000]

I think CH meant it was a week between taping the Men Tell All and the AFTFR. I do think though that he totally knew what the letter said.

[Rhondinella]

Oh, OK.  That makes more sense.  Thanks.

 

Still totally lying about the letter though.

[BC Mama]

I know this is sexist, but if a Bachelor contestant had slept with an F2 when a) he knew she was in love with him and b) he knew he was going to kick her to the curb, I think there'd be a lot more outrage on behalf of the F2 than Nick got.

 

I have the opposite take - and an equally sexist one. I think that had a Bachelor been outed as sleeping with more than one contestant, the general public would have said, "what do you expect?"

[MarkHB]

Since I am not a spoiler-reading person at all, what was the bit about Nick on the plane (and a related video) all about? This is literally the first I've heard of it.

[Pollock]

Well the first time I heard rumors about her and Josh possibly knowing each other before the show, was back during the early days of the filming when some of the cast had been spoiled. I think I saw it first mentioned back at TWOP (RIP) and it was just a few comments that there were some rumors going around. Reality Steve even addressed it a few weeks before the season premiered, saying he'd looked into it and there was nothing to suggest the rumors were true. As for their story of being in the same club, I believe they said that on Kimmel last night. It's just with all the whispers early on, couple with this convenient story of them both in a club but him not speaking to her and she apparently never seeing him, I just think the whole thing sounds a bit sketchy.

Oh, thank you for that. Totally missed it on RS website at the time. Yeah... that sounds sketchy indeed. I believe in coincidences but it's a big one ! 

[backformore]

Since I am not a spoiler-reading person at all, what was the bit about Nick on the plane (and a related video) all about? This is literally the first I've heard of it.

Reality Steve's version -  After nick was let go, however many months ago it was in real time, someone sitting behind him on an airplane made a video recording of him on his phone.  The person intended to record "some idiot talking too loud about his personal business", but then realized that this guy was just let go from a reality show, listened, and figured out what he was saying. Then looked up the website and matched the guy to the face.    Nick was explaining on the phone that "she chose the other guy".   So even before the season aired, that was evidence that Nick was the runner-up.  The person recording it happened to know something about Reality steve, and sent him the video. 

 

Though Reality steve has an explanation, the whole thing seems TOO coincidental.  Someone talking on a plane, another person happens to record it (who DOES that?)  and then surmises that the person is on a TV show that they (the person recording)  doesn't even watch.  The recording is from behind Nick, and it was before the first episode.  So, the recording person recalls that they know someone who has a website devoted to the show, looks up the website, locates nick's photo, and sends the video recording to reality steve. 

I don't know - maybe RS had someone from the show following the contestants as they leave to get the scoop?  who knows? He swears it was all innocent coincidence, but that seems far-fetched.  

Edited July 30, 2014 by backformore

[Former Nun]

Even if Chris Harrison wanted to milk Nick's pain for drama, you'd think that SOMEONE in his life would say, "She made her decision, she doesn't want to see you, don't be THAT guy," or "dude, you look like a stalker."

 

I wouldn't be surprised to read that he has been a stalker.  His vibe was just off.

[MarkHB]

Reality Steve's version -  After nick was let go, however many months ago it was in real time, someone sitting behind him on an airplane made a video recording of him on his phone.  The person intended to record "some idiot talking too loud about his personal business", but then realized that this guy was just let go from a reality show, listened, and figured out what he was saying. Then looked up the website and matched the guy to the face.    Nick was explaining on the phone that "she chose the other guy".   So even before the season aired, that was evidence that Nick was the runner-up.  The person recording it happened to know something about Reality steve, and sent him the video.

Thanks very much... and yes, it does indeed seem like the person sitting behind Nick was, himself, a tool.

 

I can empathize with Nick to some extent because I've been there, not in a triangle, but getting blindsided by being dumped and not handling it well, but in my case I was 18 years old so I'm playing the immaturity and inexperience card.  Plus, I wasn't on TV.

[LennieBriscoe]

I think she's all about making herself famous.

I thought I heard Andi say something along the lines of "Whoa, not so fast!" when Josh mentioned a wedding time-frame. So, yeah, I think she's not eager to get off my TV.

 

On a different note: I've now read the term "blast" or "on blast" in more than a few posts. Is this a new sex-slang term, another word for "busted," or what? Unfamiliar!

Edited July 30, 2014 by LennieBriscoe

[gator12]

I don't see anyone calling Andi a slut but she sure led Nick on emotionally and took full advantage of that. She herself claim that she had no feeling for Nick. 

[MsPH]

I think Andi actually alluded to the sex herself during that last night with Nick. She said "just think of all we've already "enjoyed"" followed by a giggle and it was clear what she was referring to. And she did this while reassuring him. I am seriously baffled by her behaviour. I don't find it acceptable unless she really only made her mind up the day of the FRC. But if that's the case, then that just makes the whole proposal scene seem so incredibly fake. They may be in love now after seeing each other every day for months, but back then? Fakety fake fake. But that's how she is. I've watched some of their interviews after the show and it's absolutely painful watching her. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt during the season and even defended her a bit during the Eric drama, but now I just cannot stand her.

 

I wonder if Sharleen is going to (dares) recap this episode. She's been such a fan of Nick that this must've been painful to watch. And it sure won't be easy to stay diplomatic. Even if she considers Andi a friend, she can't possibly do a 180 on Nick.

[ribboninthesky1]

After watching that segment, Andi never said she didn't care for or about Nick.  Chris asked her something like did she ever love Nick, and she responded no. 

 

It's not Andi's responsibility to give Nick the closure he needs. That's his own emotional issue. Just because she didn't say what he (or Team Nickers for that matter) needed to hear doesn't make her the bad person in this situation. There is no bad person in this situation, because it's all about your own feelings and perceptions in regards to relationships and sex.[...]

And I know it hurts. I've been dumped before, even in a relationship where I thought everything was great. You do feel used and you do feel incredibly hurt, but it's on you to pull yourself out of that funk. You can't put it on the other person by demanding closure. Umm, they have their closure-- they broke up with you. Not letting it go can just creep the other person out because you start to come across as an irritating loon. Nick may be more of an intellectual, but I do feel there is something immature and underdeveloped in how he reads relationships. Before, during, and after.

 

Yeah, I agree.  If Andi had left him hanging with the possibility of more, I could see why there would be an issue of closure.  But she clearly ended it, and Nick was hurt.  It happens, and it sucks.  Being entitled to how you feel isn't the same as being entitled to tell the person how hurt you are/were.  If they want to hear you out, fine.  But they're not obligated to.  I loathe to defend Andi on this front, because I don't like her and don't even find her all that mature, but she didn't owe Nick anything after she sent him home.  Part of adulthood is the realization that, especially in short-term relationships, you can be incredibly hurt, and you may never understand how/why the other person felt as they did, other than they don't want to be with you.  And really, that's all you deserve to know. 

 

That's why I didn't understand Nick's question of "Is this about us or something else?" when she ended it.  Duh, of course it's about the two of you - she's telling you as much by saying she can't see a future with you.  I don't know, emotionally obtuse people annoy me greatly, especially when you're old enough to know better, and that's even with the understanding that they're entitled to how they feel.  I contrast Nick's reaction to Chris' reaction, and they were both shown as sad. But Chris didn't need "closure" or whatever.  He took her at her word, and that was that.  Because that's what emotionally mature adults do.  I guess the argument could be made that Nick cared so much more, and I could see that possibility, since I never believed Chris was into Andi like that.  OTOH, I think Nick, as depicted on the show, might have been caught up with being "in love" and confidence he was "the one," none of which have much to do with Andi. So eh, it's a wash.  

[truthaboutluv]

I think Andi actually alluded to the sex herself during that last night with Nick. She said "just think of all we've already "enjoyed"" followed by a giggle and it was clear what she was referring to. And she did this while reassuring him. I am seriously baffled by her behaviour. I don't find it acceptable unless she really only made her mind up the day of the FRC. But if that's the case, then that just makes the whole proposal scene seem so incredibly fake. They may be in love now after seeing each other every day for months, but back then? Fakety fake fake. But that's how she is.

 

 

I heard that apparently during one of the media stops, she and Josh talked about how during their night in the FS, they discussed engagement rings and she told him exactly the one she wanted, which I guess is the ring she has now. All cute and sweet I guess but then it goes back to the idea that she knew for quite awhile that Josh was her pick and yet despite that, still chose to have to sex with Nick.

 

This is why I said that basically depending on what is the truth with Andi, it was one of two things. Either she knew very well she loved and wanted Josh and there was no way she'd ever pick Nick and yet despite that still slept with him even after he poured his heart out and let her know how important that was to him or she truly was torn in that Josh is who she just naturally and always gravitated towards but something about Nick really got to her and she slept with him. The latter again, still kind of icky in my book but not the worse thing in the world. The former, total asshole move. 

 

And the fact is, based on the tale she's spinning now, she's the one making the situation look like it was the former. Because she and Josh are out there with her selling that she knew almost immediately and so that's what makes her actions look incredibly bad in my opinion. Personally, part of me almost feels like Andi changed her tune to make it seem like there was almost nothing between her and Nick and it was somehow in his head, because I don't know, maybe Josh or his family and friends were uncomfortable watching all the face-sucking, tonguing, ass grabbing and boob grazing that went on with her and Nick during the season. So to compensate, she took this completely cold and unfeeling turn with him, acting like he was this completely delusional nutcase. 

 

And for the record, I think all the "Nick is a stalker" crap is bullshit too. Nick only tried to talk to Andi twice and both times he went through the Producers to do so. He contacted them and asked them to get in contact with her and see if she was willing to talk in private with him. As others noted, Arie flew to Emily's home and left his journal and also proceeded to call her directly multiple times. I don't see anyone calling him a stalker. 

 

That's why I didn't understand Nick's question of "Is this about us or something else?" when she ended it.

 

 

I don't find that question odd, especially considering the circumstances of the show. I think essentially what he was asking is if it was simply because she didn't see it with him and them or if it was ultimately that she just loved Josh more. Those are two different things. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[bosawks]

I just can't get the mental picture of a pouting Nick stuttering, "But, but, she saw my testicles...."

[Alapaki]

How many blatant lies can the guy tell in the space of two sentence?  The ATFR was "a week later" than the FRC.  Riiiight.  More like 2 months. He doesn't know what was in the letter?  Dude, the producers posted it on FB yesterday!  Pffffft.  Whatever.  I have no respect for the guy left so I don't know why it bothers me.

 

 

I think he was talking about her declining to meet with Nick at the MTA by saying that she figured that she would be seeing him in a week on the AFTR

 

 

 

I think CH meant it was a week between taping the Men Tell All and the AFTFR. I do think though that he totally knew what the letter said

 

 

But, as far as I know, the Men Tell All was not broadcast live last week.  The M(W)TA is usually taped a few weeks before the finale airs.  So while the MTA aired just a week before the ATFR, it didn't happen just a week before.  Maybe this is a slip-up on Chris' part and an unintentional admission that they whole bullshit scene of him presenting "let letter" to Andi (which we were to believe happened backstage at the MTA) was actually taped at a later date.

 

Likewise, you have to remember that Chris Harrison is first and foremost a Producer of this show.  As such, the sole purpose of his blog is to promote/protect the Franchise, and to further the narrative of the season.  I don't know if EW archives his blogs, but if you go back to the first season that Chris blogged, he actually provided interesting behind-the-scenes information.  Since then, though, it's been nothing but company-line stuff.

 

His Blog this week reads like an attempt at damage control because the Nick/Andi confrontation didn't play out the way they wanted it to (i.e. it didn't make their "star" look good).  Either Nick didn't stick to the script he was given, or Andi (unsurprisingly to me) failed to transmogrify from the self-centered, narcissistic asshole that she is into someone with any sense of decency and compassion.

 

Far from providing "closure", I think telling Nick how happy Andi and Josh were only served to heighten the questions/issues of how that could be given the stuff that Andi said and did with Nick (or at least given the way Nick perceived those words and actions).

 

And the fact is, based on the tale she's spinning now, she's the one making the situation look like it was the former. Because she and Josh are out there with her selling that she knew almost immediately and so that's what makes her actions look incredibly bad in my opinion.

 

I agree.  She's hoisted on her own petard there.  It just heightens the ridiculousness of the Bachelor(ette) having to provide the editors with comments that suggest uncertainty right up until the day before/of the FRC.  I've always thought that, if I was the one who "won", and then saw that up until the day before that my new fiance was just as likely to select the other guy, I'd wouldn't feel great about that.

 

I suppose it's easy enough to brush off those comments as just something required by the format of the show if the "star" hasn't said and done things with the "loser" which is consistent with that ambivalence, though.  When there have been such words and actions, I think the "star" has some explaining to do.  I recall one of Deanna's most compelling complaints against Brad was some of things Brad had said to her (and to her Father) leading up to the FRC.

 

I think, as someone said upthread, that Nick was the equivalent of Andi's "safety school" in case she didn't get accepting into the University of Josh.  I can't remember if I read it here or in a recap, but I agree that Andi treated the whole "journey" as a job interview.  She decided almost immediately (possibly pre-taping, if I put on my tin-foil hat) that Josh would get the job-offer.  But she needed to have a back-up candidate ready in case Josh turned her down or flamed out.  Because there was no way that Andi was coming away from this season without an engagement that she could give to Fleiss as evidence that "the process works", unlike that awful Juan Pablo thought.

[panthergirl13]

While I think Reality Steve's take on the Nick situation was a little weird (basically, "real men don't get upset when they're dumped...at least not for two whole months!"), I fully agree with him that Nick dropping the 'sex bomb' on live TV was production's idea. Probably why it took him so long to spit it out. On some level he knew he'd come off like an asshole for doing it, and Andi probably wasn't in on the plan, but these people sign their souls away when they agree to do reality TV.

 

I just read a novel called "Arts and Entertainment" which is about a guy who, for financial reasons, ends up on a reality show about his life. It's an interesting look at how production manipulates everything (even editing the ITMs to make an answer to one question appear to be an answer to a different one). Fleiss and co. don't even try to hide it that much anymore.

 

With all that in mind, it's hard to believe anyone watches these shows un-ironically.

[truthaboutluv]

But, as far as I know, the Men Tell All was not broadcast live last week.  The M(W)TA is usually taped a few weeks before the finale airs.

 

 

No I'm pretty sure the MTA is taped the weekend before the F3 episode airs. So it's filmed, then it airs a week later and then the next week is the finale and the AFTR. There are usually many tweets and screencaps during the filming of the MTA which verifies when it's filmed and this season's was no different. It's also the reason it's very easy to always figure out which guy/girl goes home on the F3 episode because multiple tweets etc. report them being at the MTA/WTA.

 

I think the story about Arie and Emily is that it wasn't one-sided even after the show. Andi made it very clear to Nick that it was over.

 

 

Not to go off topic because I have zero desire to rehash all the multiple rumors/stories/etc. about Arie and Emily because I had more than enough of that during that season. However, my comment was in reference solely to what happened or was said anyway in the immediate aftermath of that season and that version, it was stated Arie called Emily multiple times after coming to her house to drop off his journal, until Jef told him he and Emily were engaged. However, and for the record I don't think Arie was a stalker either, I was simply using that as an example to show why I'm uncomfortable with all the stalker labels being put on Nick when he never directly contacted or approached Andi. He went to the producers to ask them to ask her if she was willing to talk to him. 

 

His Blog this week reads like an attempt at damage control because the Nick/Andi confrontation didn't play out the way they wanted it to (i.e. it didn't make their "star" look good).

 

 

It's been interesting reading some of the comments at the entertainment sites, like USWeekly and others. It's pretty divided and honestly that surprised me. I like Nick but I fully expected him to be skewered in the media and comments, etc. and yeah there are a lot of "it's was kind of shitty to say that, he's a jerk" but there is a lot of shit being thrown at Andi because of her having sex with Nick while claiming how much she knew Josh was the one for her. Well no worries, she has her BFF Kelly to try to get people to retweet how much of creeper, stalker, asshole and all around Satan Nick is. 

 

Apparently, she and Josh are out there attacking Nick and calling him classless.

 

 

My favorite part was Josh's comment that he and Andi don't associate with "people like that." The first comment on the US Weekly site to the story was, "yeah but apparently your fiance is willing to sleep with people like that."

Edited July 30, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Beebee111]

 

I loathe to defend Andi on this front, because I don't like her and don't even find her all that mature, but she didn't owe Nick anything after she sent him home.

 

You are right it's not about her "owing him" something. It's about treating another human being with decency and compassion. It's about extending kindness to another person - particularly one that you have been so intimate with (sexually and emotionally). Why I expect that from anyone who would appear on this ridiculous franchise is beyond me.

 

I've never commented as much as I have on a season - but for some reason Andi has really bugged, and turned me off. Apparently, she and Josh are out there attacking Nick and calling him classless. God forbid, they take a look inward and examine how Andi could have dealt with the situation better. She's the class act here . . . NOT.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Beebee111

[Alapaki]

I loathe to defend Andi on this front, because I don't like her and don't even find her all that mature, but she didn't owe Nick anything after she sent him home.

 

You are right it's not about her "owing him" something. It's about treating another human being with decency and compassion. It's about extending kindness to another person - particularly one that you have been so intimate with (sexually and emotionally). Why I expect that from anyone who would appear on this ridiculous franchise is beyond me.

 

 

I suppose in real life the only obligation (owing) in this scenario would arise from common human decency.  But, when you decide to be a puppet for Fleiss & Co. (and I'll maintain forever that's what Andi did starting with her hissy-fit at Juan Pablo last season), you've set yourself up to have to deal with those confrontations and address those issues.  

 

Because, you know, we all remember how America's heart broke when . . .  after America fell in love with . . . .  

 

If anything, I think the irony is delicious.  Because Andi basically did whatever she had to do to get cast as the Bachelorette, and then said all the things that Fleiss & Co. want to hear in order to prop up the facade that this "process" and "journey" really does work.  And they still, in a way, sold her out by making the majority of the ATFR about her dumping Nick.  (that ATFR was about 50% Nick; 40% Bachelor-in-Paradise; 10% Andi & Josh).

 

Think about it.  They went out to interview Nick's mom.  They went to Nick's hometown to film him taking a sad walk around town, pining for her perma-frown lost love.  They staged that whole "letter" scene.

 

Hell, even the "bloopers" and "light" stuff were used to mock Andi's inarticulateness and bitch-face.

 

And, in the process, I think they've largely deprived Andi of the post-show media "victory lap" that the "star" and the "winner" usually get to make so that they can gush over how in love they are and yadayadayada and parlay into other tv appearances.  I'm sure she'll get the softball treatment from the outlets that are usually in bed with ABC and the show.  But she's not going to be be able to deal with any other outlet without having to deal with the "Nick issue".  And the more she has to deal with it, the more defensive and combative she's going to get, and the worse she's going to look.

 

It's going to be GREAT!

[Quinn13]

 

 

 

My favorite part was Josh's comment that he and Andi don't associate with "people like that." The first comment on the US Weekly site to the story was, "yeah but apparently your fiance is willing to sleep with people like that."

TRUTHABOUTLOVE, You've nailed it for me here. I honestly don't have a huge problem with Andi sleeping with Nick if she was still undecided. Which, apparently, according to her, she wasn't since she told Josh she fell in love with him the second she laid eyes on him. A woman does not have the obligation to marry every man they sleep with, obviously. 

My problem is with her and Josh having zero sympathy to what she did to him by hurting him and taking no ownership of it whatsoever. She and Josh got their happy ending. They get the victory lap and they get to spend the rest of their days happily together. And instead of taking the high road and having those gracious, huge hearts everyone keeps saying they have, they are choosing to be petty and nasty to the guy that 'lost'. Nick, on the other hand, congratulated the two of them on twitter and wished them well. Even after she sat at the final show and was a stone cold bitch. He did nothing wrong and she acted like he was a  parasite. She gave him nothing, Chris was asking no questions so that's when he was like 'what in the actual hell is going on with you? You were not acting like this the night you screwed me in the fantasy suite.' She strikes me as a terrible person and not because she didn't pick him but because she doesn't seem to want anyone else ever to call her on anything ever or question any of her decisions. He dodged a major bullet because she would have made him miserable over the long haul, I guarantee it. 

And why did she quit her job if she was going to pick and stay with the guy in Atlanta? 

[alexa]

And, in the process, I think they've largely deprived Andi of the post-show media "victory lap" that the "star" and the "winner" usually get to make so that they can gush over how in love they are and yadayadayada and parlay into other tv appearances.  I'm sure she'll get the softball treatment from the outlets that are usually in bed with ABC and the show.  But she's not going to be be able to deal with any other outlet without having to deal with the "Nick issue".  And the more she has to deal with it, the more defensive and combative she's going to get, and the worse she's going to look.

 

I agree...it is kind of funny :-)  I think they already had deprived her of her victory lap even before Nick said what he did...it was clear they wanted to spend most of the ATFR with Nick, and were dawdling about getting to Andi and Josh.  I found that interesting.

[henripootel]

With all that in mind, it's hard to believe anyone watches these shows un-ironically.

Couldn't agree more, panther, and if it weren't for you and alapaki, I'd think I'd lost my mind.  I think Reality Steve is right about production being behind Nick's 'sex-bomb', and can there be any possibly of doubt that production manufactured the confrontation between Andi and Nick?  The guy she rejected and who (if we're to believe any of this is real) has been, well, stalking her for months?  Heck, it's worse if the whole 'Nick stalking Andi' is more manufactured nonsense - is there anywhere that such behavior is considered 'romantic' rather than 'possibly criminal', and certainly 'unwanted'?  

 

This is beyond contemptible behavior by production, and would seem to me to render all questions of should 'Nick have respected Andi's privacy' or 'Andi have been nicer to a poor guy in emotional turmoil' pretty much moot. 

 

ETA Pathergirl, you remind me of another bit of fiction, a small part of The Worthing Saga by Orson Scott Card.  One minor character in the book (set in the distant future) was a ex-reality show actor, and things had gotten to the point where they hid cameras on their persons and lived their lives as their characters for weeks at a time.  She ate, slept, had sex with lots of folks, all scripted and 24-7.  I read this years and years ago and thought how ridiculous this was, how Card was out of his mind for thinking people would want to watch something this elaborate that they knew was kayfabe.  I stand corrected.  This will happen.  Just waiting on the technology now.  

Edited July 30, 2014 by henripootel