S12.E11: The Monthiversary

[Ms.C.]

2 hours ago, Myrtle Urkele said:

If we're being honest with this whole situation, Haley is being a nice version of Chris.

He's self-assured in himself and was being polite to not be as blunt as he was tonight with Haley. He was trying to ride this out when he realized the marriage wasn't going to work out. 

Nailed it.  Thanks.  I wish he’d had an older match.  Someone with a sense of humor and life experience.  

[greeneyedscorpio]

3 hours ago, endure said:

I don't understand  why you would enter a relationship like this if you aren't able to have an open mind.  She pretends that she does but then when she puts it into practice she falls terribly short. I think she might find difficulty with any intimate relationship.

For sure, but an equally perplexing question is why would the "experts" choose someone who habitually picks guys apart without giving them a chance.  That's the ultimate recipe for disaster on this show.  

Edited March 25, 2021 by greeneyedscorpio

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

There remains the slight possibility that Jake isn't really fond of Haley!

It's not just a slight possibility - he pretty much leaked that out on "Unfiltered" when he said he didn't have much attraction for her at the wedding and he only started to warm up a little bit to her on the honeymoon, but not much.  This is why I have not been buying into the "she's the problem" narrative because he has not admitted to her that he himself is not feeling it with HER either.  No, it's more important to him to blame her for everything wrong between them and cop victim status.  If not for this I would be more sympathetic toward him than I am.  Haley has been more honest with him than he has been with her.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Yeah No

[greeneyedscorpio]

3 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

It's not just a slight possibility - he pretty much leaked that out on "Unfiltered" when he said he didn't have much attraction for her at the wedding and he only started to warm up a little bit to her on the honeymoon, but not much.  This is why I have not been buying into the "she's the problem" narrative because he has not admitted to her that he himself is not feeling it with HER either.  No, it's more important to him to blame her for everything wrong between them and cop victim status.  If not for this I would be more sympathetic toward him than I am.  Haley has been more honest with him than he has been with her.

I kind of had to give him the side-eye when he said that on Unfiltered.  I just figured he was trying to save face.

 

The look on Clara's face when Ryan called her "pal".  I don't think she recovered from that for the rest of the night.  

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Haley hates how Jake just cuts through her crap! He spoke honestly and perhaps with not a little embarrassment about Haley's pulling back from hugs and from a kiss. 

He keeps calling out her behavior as a smoke screen to take the attention away from the fact that he never liked her.  He inasmuch leaked that out on "Unfiltered" tonight.  He expects her to find him attractive and show him affection meanwhile he never really cared for her either.  What an asshole.

1 minute ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

I kind of had to give him the side-eye when he said that on Unfiltered.  I just figured he was trying to save face.

Sorry but his dislike of her has been obvious to me since day one because I haven't been sidetracked from seeing that that by his smoke and mirrors/victim routine.  If he really liked her he wouldn't have been so negative and nasty with her right from the start.  He would be doing positive things to try to win her over.  He wants her to like him meanwhile he doesn't even like her himself.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

He sure looked creepy to me, seeing his pics on tv.  But that's beside the point because I'm talking about Jake here.

Yeah Bundy pegged my creep meter from day one.  I never agreed when people said he was the kind of guy no one would suspect.  But then again I grew up in the Bronx in a rough time and learned early how to spot creeps.  Jake is not really a creep in that sense.  He doesn't set off my creepy meter that much as in nowhere near as creepy as Bundy.  He is not trying to take advantage of women or anything that vile.  I do find him icky and I think he has negative baggage with relationships and a bad, self defeatist attitude toward them, which is not attractive.  That's not saying I think Haley has very attractive qualities either.  I think she has her own relationship baggage and lack of qualities that she would need for a successful relationship too. 

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Ryan always speaks like he's in a business meeting.

He treats his entire relationship with Clara like a business meeting.  I'm starting to feel really bad for her and wonder what she sees in him.  I don't feel any warmth from him directed at her whatsoever.   She might as well be his business associate.  I could feel her eyes well up when he called her "pal".  She is obviously trying really hard to remain optimistic about things but to start moving her stuff into his place before he's told her he loves her is not what I would do or recommend.

[Yeah No]

Virginia not wanting to move into Erik's place is a red flag.  She doesn't even care about the fact that it's not just a rental and would need to be sold before he could just find another place to live.  It would only be temporary so why is that so hard for her to do?  It can't be that bad.  She is really not looking at her relationship with him like a marriage.  I'm understanding all the more why Erik doesn't trust her.  Her suggesting living apart again at this stage of the relationship was totally unacceptable.

[LennieBriscoe]

5 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Whatever, she'll just be glad to get the hell away from him no matter what life holds for her.

Now that is for darn sure!

Ryan and Clara: He totally robbed her of her wedding day with his controlling cockamamie "mask" demand. Why shouldn't Clara have seen the smiling gathering as Ryan did when he entered?

I think Ryan is this season's Control Freak.

Edited March 25, 2021 by LennieBriscoe

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

For sure, but an equally perplexing question is why would the "experts" choose someone who habitually picks guys apart without giving them a chance.  That's the ultimate recipe for disaster on this show.  

I think Jake has difficulty with intimate relationships too.  There's no way a guy with his kind of well paying stable career who owns his own house should be that desperate to find someone when he's pushing 40 already if he doesn't have his own issues.  They are not a mystery to me.  I have known quite a few "Jakes" in my own time, including an uncle of mine.  They are self defeating, negative and deep down have issues with women in general because they feel that most women don't give them a chance.  He ends up pushing women away by always jumping to the worst case scenario with all of them and proceeding on that basis whether they deserve it or not.  Women would get involved with my uncle but somehow the relationships always ended, and I know it was because of my uncle's baggage.  So I don't think it was any coincidence that this show matched someone with that issue with a woman that had a history of not giving guys a chance.  It was once again a relationship that was designed to fail.  The show can only allow so many "perfect matches" per season because production seems to think people like to see train wrecks.  It's just evil.

P.S.  My uncle was so much like Jake it's scary.  To see him you would think he should be a great match for any woman.  He was funny, intelligent, articulate, etc.  He even had his own quirky interests like Jake.  But it took seeing under the surface to realize what the problem was.  He was also like Jake in that he would like to fuck with people's minds.  Like Jake he'd make out-there jokes that no one got or even knew were jokes just to see them react uncomfortably like he was weird, just so he could perpetuate this victim thing where he can say that no one gives him a chance.  

Edited March 25, 2021 by Yeah No

[JAndy]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Virginia not wanting to move into Erik's place is a red flag.  She doesn't even care about the fact that it's not just a rental and would need to be sold before he could just find another place to live.  It would only be temporary so why is that so hard for her to do?  It can't be that bad.  She is really not looking at her relationship with him like a marriage.  I'm understanding all the more why Erik doesn't trust her.  Her suggesting living apart again at this stage of the relationship was totally unacceptable.

I wasn’t sure what kind of compromise she wanted? He said he’d sell his place and they’d buy a new one they both picked out. 
 

I do think he has horrible delivery. He needs to work on that. On unfiltered he said it was a character flaw, so maybe looking back at himself on TV he doesn’t like what he sees 

[Baltimore Betty]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Sorry but his dislike of her has been obvious to me since day one because I haven't been sidetracked from seeing that that by his smoke and mirrors/victim routine.  If he really liked her he wouldn't have been so negative and nasty with her right from the start.  He would be doing positive things to try to win her over.  He wants her to like him meanwhile he doesn't even like her himself.

I never got that Jake did not really like Haley first because I was bamboozled by him putting it on Hayley with smoke and mirrors.  Wow, masterful mind fucking but then I thought maybe he is using/treating Hayley badly to get back at all the women that did not reciprocate his feelings in his past.  I do not think either of them will escape unharmed by this marriage on TV,  I was a little surprised that Jake went dark at their monthiversary, things seemed like they were finally at a place where they were civil to each other then Jake blows it all up, maybe he is a "I'll hurt you before you can hurt me," kind of guy which means all of his relationships will play out like this one.

I still say he is an attractive man, if I met him in a bar, I'd consider a one night stand...I've done worse, lol.

[Baltimore Betty]

I would be thrilled if my husband had his own plane.  I have a friend who's husband has been flying since he was a kid, (his dentist father had two planes and gave lessons on the side) and he is a commercial airline pilot, I have flown in his 6 seater with him and it really is a novel experience.  Virginia is a lucky girl to have married someone who is doing well financially and can afford such perks, did I hear him say that was his family's hangar????  That is sort of impressive, right?

After watching the couples in their wedding videos I wondered if the makeup artists were actually professionally trained or were they students at the local vo-tech because none of the girls makeup looked good at their weddings.  

Clara needs her jaw fixed, the eternal chewing is hard to watch and looks uncomfortable.  She is a flight attendant but was leary of the helicopter ride because of she is afraid of heights?  Also Ryan and Clara looked bored with each other during their helicopter flight, Ryan was staring at his phone and she was snapping photos, not very romantic, are they over each other?

This is the first season I have watched every episode and I am wondering if any of the couples wind up with someone from another pairing after D Day?  

[becauseIsaidso]

8 hours ago, buttersister said:

Did Ryan not understand there would be cameras?

My thoughts exactly. I must not have been paying attention until now, but he looked decidedly uncomfortable and when I noticed, a couple of times, that he seemed to be checking to see if the camera was on him (face pointed in one direction, eyes quickly glancing to the side) , I became certain of it. I had gotten the same feeling from Austin (and JAustin seem to be working out quite well) so I am still hopeful for this couple. Poor Clara just can't help but wear her heart on her sleeve. But, I suppose that's a pretty good indication of her lack of dis-ingenuousness.

[Hangin Out]

10 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Oh FFS, next week Haley & Jake are supposedly having fun together... until the next meltdown I'm sure. They'll just drag this shit out till decisions.

What a surprise!  Guess that little speech from Jake penetrated into her brain.  He’s probably the first person who told her how she is perceived.  Good.

[me5671]

13 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Jake team vs. Haley team ... get ready to rumble. 😂

I may be in the minority, but I'm on team both.  To me, Haley and Jake both seem like decent human beings who simply don't belong together. It's clear from watching them on Unfiltered that, when they aren't around one another, they are both more personable and relaxed.  I think they are simply two hopelessly incompatible people who have been thrust into a commitment to one another by being on this show. 

Why are so many people trying to put their relationship's failure 100% on either of them?  It seems to me that neither of them is a villain.  They seem to just bring out the worst in each other.  The only villains in this story to me are the matchmakers who paired such an obviously incompatible couple together in the first place.

[Jeanne222]

Virginia might have a point!  To sell a home it needs to be sparse and clean.  Why don't  they spruce up Eric's place, put it on the market, sell and buy their home!  Homes are selling real fast right now!

I suspect he's not really sure of long term with Virginia. She's bolted before.

She has given her reasons.  Stairs, dogs and I forget the rest.

There has to be compromise.

[Hangin Out]

10 hours ago, Ms.C. said:

We’re all different.  I don’t see him that way at all.  She makes me nervous. So anal.  

He sees it too.  He’s probably figured it all out by this time.  She’s not for him.  He’d have to walk on eggshells around her all the time.  She wants to be married, but she also likes to do what she wants to do by herself or with friends.  Her family knows exactly how she is.  I don’t know why she went on this crazy show.  She always looks terrified when speaking.

[Jeanne222]

Haley is one cold fish.  I think she's ashamed of the intimacy they shared on the honeymoon.

Jake is a bit weird but talks a good game.

I can see why both were single!

[Racj82]

12 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

And I didn't say everyone in the world..  When I said "women" I meant women he's dated.  I still say if they found him attractive that he would have wound up with one of them.  He's a muscle bound liar and he knows he's creepy and he likes to play that up. 

Frankly, I'd be afraid to be alone on an elevator with his ass.  

I don't really think that's how dating works. I'm sure the women he dates do find him attractive. There are several women here and everywhere that find him attractive. I'm sure his personality repels them if anything. Not his looks.

[Racj82]

12 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I swear, I watched them but I don't even remember what they were saying.  They both looked so awkward.  I was hoping the poor girl could find some donuts.

They've been doing this the whole season. They will say how they are on the same wavelength and growing together blah blah blah but the reality betrays them all the time. Honestly, Erik and Virginia seem the same way. Both couples talk a good game about how great they are together and how happy they are but what we see onscreen are two couples falling apart with a bunch of issues.

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

They've been doing this the whole season. They will say how they are on the same wavelength and growing together blah blah blah but the reality betrays them all the time. Honestly, Erik and Virginia seem the same way. Both couples talk a good game about how great they are together and how happy they are but what we see onscreen are two couples falling apart with a bunch of issues.

You hit THAT nail on its head!  I also feel that way to a slightly lesser degree about Vincent and Brianna.  Somehow I'm not buying that everything's coming up roses 24/7/365 given what we have already seen of his storm outs due to his fragile ego.  I feel like down the road after the glow has worn off that's going to rear its ugly head again.  If things don't go his way in his career he will end up taking it out on Brianna by overreacting to her innocuous terms of endearment as "lack of respect".

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

He sees it too.  He’s probably figured it all out by this time.  She’s not for him.  He’d have to walk on eggshells around her all the time.  She wants to be married, but she also likes to do what she wants to do by herself or with friends.  Her family knows exactly how she is.  I don’t know why she went on this crazy show.  She always looks terrified when speaking.

In Haley's defense she has said she knows that because she has been single a long time she needs to learn how not to do whatever she wants with friends whenever she wants to now that she is married.  But the things we have seen her do with friends or the other wives are not any more frequent or "out there" than what any of the other wives are doing.  I went back to look at a few earlier episodes and there were at least a couple of other wives or friends-only gatherings that were obviously arranged by production just to have something to film about how they're really feeling about husbands.  So most if not all of those instances are just a part of the show and the other wives are engaging in it too.  Let's not also forget what Virginia has been doing with HER friends, some of which are MALE, no less and yet she doesn't get the ration of shit that Haley has gotten over it (other than from Erik).  It's just not fair, IMO.

Speaking of defending Haley, I'm not even on "team Haley" I just don't think some of the criticism she has gotten is fair.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Yeah No

[Empress1]

20 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I don't really think that's how dating works. I'm sure the women he dates do find him attractive.

Agreed, that's not how dating works. You can date someone, find them attractive, and not marry them. It's ... really common, because in this day and age most people don't marry the first person they date. There's no reason to assume all the past partners of anyone on this show (really, of anyone, period) did not find them attractive.

30 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

I don’t know why [Haley] went on this crazy show.

Someone who, by her admission and that of everyone in her life, does not give people a chance and cuts them off for superficial reasons, is not a good candidate for this show. I'm sure she's been single for so long because she's written guys off for being too short or wearing something she doesn't like or whatever.

5 hours ago, JAndy said:

I do think [Erik] has horrible delivery. He needs to work on that.

I find him so condescending and controlling. I was glad Virginia called him out on talking to her like she's stupid, because he really was and he's done so consistently. (I found him to be condescending to Chris, too, when they had their fight.) He's either talking down to her or he's telling her a version of "do what I want and that's it." I also liked that she called him out on consistently saying "I've done this before."

I loved how Brianna was just like "Man, fuck Chris" in her talking head (and her braids look cute). She's by FAR my favorite person on this cast.

[seacliffsal]

I think Paige has misjudged how much sympathy she is garnering as I personally no long have any empathy or sympathy for her.  Even when hanging out with her, Chris is trying to humiliate her by participating in activities in which he thinks (and seems to be) he is good and will "win."  He also double-talks her all of the time.  If Paige is only interacting with him while being filmed (good for her) she should not invest so much in what he says or thinks.  I think that once this is over she will start to more clearly understand all of what happened and how he played her the entire time.  I do hope she learns and grows from this.

Virginia is a far better person than I am as every time Eric starts to talk about "I've been married, I know how it should be...I've lived with someone, I know what to expect" I would keep saying "yes, and how did that turn out for you?"  Eric needs to stop talking down to her-I actually cringed when he was slowly telling her how buying/selling worked.  Although her excessive drinking will continue to be an issue, so will his paternalistic communication style.

Wow, the look on Haley's face during the consultation with the tarot reader said it all.  She was shocked that any negative responsibility fell on her as she totally expected it all to be directed towards Jake.  And then, when told that they were actually compatible, she just seemed dumbfounded.  Haley said that the reader was a friend of hers so I think she totally thought she would come out of that smelling like a rose.

I was really surprised that Clara was moving things into Ryan's home.  And, apparently, taking over.  It is interesting to me that three of the men are in the position of owning homes.  And Eric comes from money as that hangar was amazing-as were the planes and cars housed in it.  I was with Virginia-move in there!

Really slow episode for me.   

[ECM1231]

8 hours ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

kind of had to give him the side-eye when he said that on Unfiltered.  I just figured he was trying to save face.

 

EXACTLY!  He was hurt by Haley's rejection of him. From what I recall from their wedding day, he seemed more than pleased with Haley, at least with her physical appearance.

[LennieBriscoe]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

In Haley's defense she has said she knows that because she has been single a long time she needs to learn how to do whatever she wants with friends whenever she wants to now that she is married.  But the things we have seen her do with friends or the other wives are not any more frequent or "out there" than what any of the other wives are doing.  I went back to look at a few earlier episodes and there were at least a couple of other wives or friends-only gatherings that were obviously arranged by production just to have something to film about how they're really feeling about husbands.  So most if not all of those instances are just a part of the show and the other wives are engaging in it too.  Let's not also forget what Virginia has been doing with HER friends, some of which are MALE, no less and yet she doesn't get the ration of shit that Haley has gotten over it (other than from Erik).  It's just not fair, IMO.

Speaking of defending Haley, I'm not even on "team Haley" I just don't think some of the criticism she has gotten is fair.

I for one have been consistent in my criticism of Drinking Virginia (sung to the tune of "Waltzing Matilda")! Erik thinks he's going to tame his Wild Child Bride, what with his "that would be it" threats, but Virginia doesn't need him; he needs her for his hope for a family. 

But in comparison to Haley, Virginia has, with her husband, not been duplicitous, fake, or stand-offish. Indeed, Virginia has been "This is who I am!" almost to a fault. 

[gonecrackers]

12 hours ago, endure said:

I don't understand  why you would enter a relationship like this if you aren't able to have an open mind.  She pretends that she does but then when she puts it into practice she falls terribly short. I think she might find difficulty with any intimate relationship.

(I haven't been through all the comments yet so apologies if this has been mentioned) - I thought that when Jake pointed out Haley "hugs strangers" & she responded that she "doesn't ever have to see them again".  Not gonna diagnose but that & the fact she finds fault with all the men at the jump strongly hints at emotional intimacy issues. I'm not dissing her for this, & it's quite common with folks who have been hurt before as she said her past serious partner cheated & got someone else pregnant. That's a huge betrayal that I don't think she's moved on from yet given her comments & behavior.

[gonecrackers]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

It's not just a slight possibility - he pretty much leaked that out on "Unfiltered" when he said he didn't have much attraction for her at the wedding and he only started to warm up a little bit to her on the honeymoon, but not much.  This is why I have not been buying into the "she's the problem" narrative because he has not admitted to her that he himself is not feeling it with HER either.  No, it's more important to him to blame her for everything wrong between them and cop victim status.  If not for this I would be more sympathetic toward him than I am.  Haley has been more honest with him than he has been with her.

He also said he felt Haley had made some assumptions about him right at the wedding. This would fall right in line with what she says she does - her own admissions. For him he said the lack of attraction started to change for him on the honeymoon, which is coincidentally when they did start to have some fun - went to dinner came back & on camera Haley says "You're so much fun." Then she pulled away, which is her history & again what she says she does. There's no winning with that because her history repeated itself. She pulled back when he thought they were doing well & it confused & hurt him. But Jake doesn't seem to be allowed to be hurt or confused about anything which is odd to me. He just wanted to give it a real shot & she's "playing trying" for the cameras which is hurtful for him. He keeps pushing for truth from her (that she doesn't like or want him so he needs to stop trying) but she won't stop playing TV. But if he tries with her he's labeled creepy & if he brings it up to her he's a victim. So what the fuck is the guy supposed to do? Apparently for some he can't cut a break - it's a lose-lose for him, unfortunately.

[Retired at last]

My thoughts when watching this were that if these people, all with varied degrees of emotional and commitment issues, WERE selected as the best they could find, why the hell would anyone watch a show made up of people who WEREN'T selected?? This one is bad enough. No way I am even looking at the new show.

People here are always posting about how this one has issues or that one needs therapy, but, realistically, NO healthy person who is able to find their own match would ever go on this show, so it is  attracting/selecting the very type of person who clearly needs help.

And, knowing what I know from spoilers, the editing is amazing.

It also seems that this season is the most obvious we have seen with actual discussions with the show runners, outside social media "leaks" and even the people involved speaking (like that leaked 'poor me, no one understands' from Paige or Chris' blasts on Jamie Otis).

[Crashcourse]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I don't really think that's how dating works. I'm sure the women he dates do find him attractive. There are several women here and everywhere that find him attractive. I'm sure his personality repels them if anything. Not his looks.

Yeah, there probably are some women who find him attractive, I should have said personality-wise more than physically, because that's what I think is the problem with him.  My judgement was clouded because I don't find him attractive in any way.  

[Rae Spellman]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Virginia might have a point!  To sell a home it needs to be sparse and clean.  Why don't  they spruce up Eric's place, put it on the market, sell and buy their home!  Homes are selling real fast right now!

Virginia makes plenty of good points. Around here sellers receive multiple offers in under ten days. Buyers waive contingencies and 21-25 day closes are fairly normal. The Atlanta metro may be different. But, Erik could also rent out his home. They could move in to Virgina's place temporarily. There are plenty of other options., too Surely, if Erik comes from a family that owns planes he can pay two mortgages for a short period of time. 

12 hours ago, Ms.C. said:

Maybe Ryan likes her but seems like some things not so much.  He’s conservative.  He’s looking for manners (donuts), someone who cares how he’s seen, cares for his health.  Do you think he thinks she’s mom material?  

Ryan is particular. Traditional, southern, conservative Erik seems to think Virginia is mom material. 

4 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

She is a flight attendant but was leary of the helicopter ride because of she is afraid of heights? 

The flights she takes for work are part of a routine. For some reason commercial flights feel safer to me than helicopter rides and that ride Erik and Virginia took. 

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I also feel that way to a slightly lesser degree about Vincent and Brianna.  Somehow I'm not buying that everything's coming up roses 24/7/365 given what we have already seen of his storm outs due to his fragile ego. 

Oh, they know things aren't awesome 24/7/365. They seem to be aware of the cameras and really want to be married. My guess is that they see what the other parings are and feel very, very lucky to have been paired with each other instead of with one of those other men or women.  

[Spectator]

I know it’s been said a million times before, but Virginia’s reliance on alcohol to have a good time (or to have any time at all, really) is really frightening. When she and Erik first sat down for dinner in the hangar, one would think they might have taken a moment or two to talk and reflect on their fabulous day in the plane, but I don’t think Virginia’s butt had even fully compressed into her chair before suggesting they open the champagne. It looked like she was salivating over just the sight of the bottle on the table. Virginia seems unable to enjoy life without a buzz, which is so sad. 
 

Alcohol abuse is often at the core of so many marital problems (lying, aggression, loss of trust, financial problems...the list goes on and on). I hope watching the show back serves as a big wake up call for her, as her persistent focus on drinking is so apparent. And is so very very sad. Erik almost surely is going to have a very tough road ahead if something doesn’t change...

[gonecrackers]

29 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

EXACTLY!  He was hurt by Haley's rejection of him. From what I recall from their wedding day, he seemed more than pleased with Haley, at least with her physical appearance.

I think he was just being honest, because he was being asked a direct question about it & made some comments on the show that indicate Haley is definitely not his type. He's said he likes big noses, & also that he doesn't do well with anxious people & told the 'experts' this. But I do believe he's been trying regardless & being honest, while Haley has not. Again, she's just doing her thing, rejecting right away - she just can't get away from this one & yeah that must suck for her.

And I would agree that the 'experts' suck except they (supposedly) do the picking & it's for a teevee show, so in that regard, with all the chatter here about them, they've done well.

Between J&H & C&P, they're probably drowning themselves in celebratory champagne this season.  🤬

[bichonblitz]

All Ryan ever says is:  Sure. We're getting there. You could practically see Clara's skin crawl when ever he says those words over and over again. Suurre. We're getting there. No, Ryan, you are not getting anywhere. I have to admit Clara was not very nice talking about changing everything in his house to accommodate her. That's a turn off. These two don't match. Just as bad as Jake and Haley except they are more polite about it. 

I agreed 100% with everything Jake said to Haley. He was cool and calm and said everything that was on his mind. He took Haley down and she was shocked and embarrassed in front of the camera. She deserved every bit of it. 

Erik's family must have some big money. I wish he would stop pretending to the other couples that he and GinGin are perfect together from the get go. Aside from sex, they have so many issues,  for some reason he doesn't want any of the couples to know. Stop fronting Erik! Erik and Clara would be much better suited for each other. He's a pilot, she's a flight attendant, she's ready for love and committment. He's a neat freak, she's a neat freak. She would probably love his condo, too.  I wonder why the experts didn't match them. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by bichonblitz

[bichonblitz]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

She has given her reasons.  Stairs, dogs and I forget the rest.

There has to be compromise.

IMO the compromise is that Erik offered to list his place for sale. It takes time to sell a property. Even in the best of markets you still have to meet with an agent, get the property listed, have it shown, there is still a period of time to wait until the property closes.  Living in his place is only a temporary situation, childish GinGin could not understand that. 

[Crashcourse]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I do find him icky and I think he has negative baggage with relationships and a bad, self defeatist attitude toward them, which is not attractive. 

Yes, "icky" is a more apt description of how I see Jake, although I never meant creepy in the sense that he's a serial killer.

I suspect this wasn't the first time he had a conversation with a woman, putting her on the spot because she wasn't attracted to him for whatever reason.  I know he's feeling butt hurt and I did feel sorry for him for about a minute in earlier episodes, but he seemed to relish making Haley feeling uncomfortable when they were sitting at the table. 

My problem with her is she's still trying to come off as "trying" when everyone can see that she's just not into him at all.  After he flamed her, she should have said "You're right, it's just not working for us," fist bumped him, and left his butt hurt ass.   

[gonecrackers]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

He treats his entire relationship with Clara like a business meeting.  I'm starting to feel really bad for her and wonder what she sees in him.  I don't feel any warmth from him directed at her whatsoever.   She might as well be his business associate.  I could feel her eyes well up when he called her "pal".  She is obviously trying really hard to remain optimistic about things but to start moving her stuff into his place before he's told her he loves her is not what I would do or recommend.

Looking at it yeah he seems cold. But I don't trust the narrative here & think they're doing better than it seems. I think it was on Unfiltered where Clara said she was always on a stage in school, & loved all the attention. I get the feeling the constant long face about no sex (supposedly) is her just hamming it up. Ryan isn't as good at it. 😂

[Auntie Anxiety]

If Erik and Virginia were supposed to be reenacting an “Out of Africa” moment with the plane ride, epic fail.

[Devvie]

I think Virginia is starting to realize that Erik is a stable person and she needs that.  Yes, they have things to work out (like she needs to cool down or stop the drinking and he needs to stop the controlling and patronizing).  She comes from chaos and he comes from stable/traditional.  But, if she's smart, she'll rise to the occasion.  Rise to stability.  I was married for a short time to a stable successful kind of boring guy when I was in my 20s.  I left.  Then I married a guy who I thought was perfect, handsome, fun/exciting, my soul mate, tons of potential, etc. Guess what? He remained handsome but was lazy, unstable, manic (would make a ton of money then be out of work).  It was 25 years of HELL. I look at my friends who stayed with the stable boring guy.  They are traveling the world, enjoying retirements, and have a lot to be proud of.  If I could kick my own ass, I would. 

I agree with many of you that it's Jake AND Haley.  Neither are marriage material.  It's now pretty obvious. They aren't bad people. They are damaged people.  Neither are willing to open up yet neither are willing to take credit for driving the marriage into the ditch.  That's a recipe for a really sad life. Haley admits to dismissing men quickly but that's a safe thing to say. She should be saying that she's too afraid of being hurt so she dismisses men. I get it - having a long term boyfriend impregnating someone would be hard to get over.  But it's been seven years. They are both so passive aggressive.  Both so angry.  Both wanting to be victims.  And, it seems, within a month they are both perceptive enough to know EXACTLY how to push each other's buttons.  

[Airy2021]

15 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Whatever, she'll just be glad to get the hell away from him no matter what life holds for her.

I agree. I find Jake extremely weird and I do feel bad for Haley. I don’t love her or anything but I can understand her feelings as someone who would feel the same exact way if I was matched with him. I wouldn’t know what to do with him and his dry personality. I would be crying too! He’s just a strange dude. 

[Soup333]

This season is very boring. The Chris & Paige show is ridiculous and I wish they'd just stop filming them. Foisting manipulating Chris and dumb Paige on us every week is disrespectful to the viewers.

I like Vincent and Brianna but I'm wary of him being triggered again. Clara and Ryan are running in place. Or maybe walking in place. Virginia and Erik...just a drunken disaster waiting to happen. 

As far as Haley and Jake, I agree with those who've said they're just not compatible. Jake is self-deprecating, even in his comments about how he's not photogenic. Haley seems very stiff when she's around him but when she's hanging with the other couples, or the other women especially, she's so much more relaxed and likable. It's too bad we didn't get to see that side of her with a man who'd have been a better match. 

This has been the worst season for me. 

[evansmom10]

I am SO SO sick to my stomach that this damn channel allows this expert GASLIGHTER Chris to continue abusing this woman on this show!! Don't get me wrong she is responsible for her actions, but boy is he just an AWFUL human being. 

[Adeejay]

14 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

OMFG Jake has a personality disorder 

Jake seemed butt hurt that Haley is not attracted to him. He just expected to get married at first sight and suddenly have a marriage. Just because they were married on paper, doesn’t mean she should be comfortable with him overnight. He was so ruthless with the way he just wanted to barrel straight to intimacy without establishing any kind of foundation first. Haley should have been more honest with him about the fact that she was not feeling him like that, but he was on some other shit entirely.

[Boo Boo]

I'm wishing that Clara and Jake would get together.   Both need a partner that is a fun, a little quirky.  I think they'd be cute together.  

[evansmom10]

16 hours ago, CSunshine76 said:

SURE.

FOR SURE.

SURE.

 

eta:  seriously, if we drank every time one of the above was his response, we’d be drunker than Virginia!

I am too busy looking at the "cakes" he keeps bringing to every party. Sigh. LOL. 

[Boo Boo]

24 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

Jake seemed butt hurt that Haley is not attracted to him. He just expected to get married at first sight and suddenly have a marriage. Just because they were married on paper, doesn’t mean she should be comfortable with him overnight. He was so ruthless with the way he just wanted to barrel straight to intimacy without establishing any kind of foundation first. Haley should have been more honest with him about the fact that she was not feeling him like that, but he was on some other shit entirely.

And yet she willingly barreled straight towards intimacy without establishing any kind of foundation first and had sex with him.

Edit:  I don't having sex with him was wrong, but Jake is not some horndog.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Boo Boo

[Boo Boo]

14 hours ago, endure said:

I don't understand  why you would enter a relationship like this if you aren't able to have an open mind.  She pretends that she does but then when she puts it into practice she falls terribly short. I think she might find difficulty with any intimate relationship.

For me, I don't blame Haley for her lack of attraction to Jake.  I'm sure she had sex with him hoping for a connection and that clearly didn't happen.  

But according to her friends, this has always been a problem for her -- she's quick to back away from a person once she finds a reason.  So when she talked about how unusual it is for her not to have a connection with him, I thought back to her friends.

Haley strikes me as someone that is very happy single, happy to live alone but societal pressures tell her she needs to be married when she should just enjoy her independence!

[Empress1]

10 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

I'm wishing that Clara and Jake would get together.   Both need a partner that is a fun, a little quirky.  I think they'd be cute together.  

I think Jake needs someone more mature - not necessarily older, but more mature. His response to Virginia bragging about how she was on time to work for once makes me think he doesn't find that charming, and his response to the big fight at the honeymoon dinner (basically "Whatever, I'm hungry") makes me think he's not interested in drama. Ryan told Clara to mind her own business after that (more politely, but that's what he meant) and Clara was hurt by that, and I can see Jake doing more or less the same thing. I can't see Jake wanting to gossip about ... well, about anything, really; he doesn't seem like that kind of guy.

[Boo Boo]

2 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I think Jake needs someone more mature - not necessarily older, but more mature. His response to Virginia bragging about how she was on time to work for once makes me think he doesn't find that charming, and his response to the big fight at the honeymoon dinner (basically "Whatever, I'm hungry") makes me think he's not interested in drama. Ryan told Clara to mind her own business after that (more politely, but that's what he meant) and Clara was hurt by that, and I can see Jake doing more or less the same thing. I can't see Jake wanting to gossip about ... well, about anything, really; he doesn't seem like that kind of guy.

I don't get the sense that Clara is immature or a drama queen.  She seems like a genuinely nice person who was paired with someone who doesn't seem to be able to unwind, let go, enjoy himself.  

Edited March 25, 2021 by Boo Boo