S05.E12: Both Things Can Be True

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, bybrandy said:

Absolutely agree about this.  How transracial adoption is handled within families varries incredibly from family to family and also what a kid needs to honor their heratige from family to family.  I have one set of friends who have adopted multiple children from China and they put the kids in chinese school and took mandarin themselves and they go to all the adoption picnics in the area so their kids can see and experience things and people like them.  I have another set of friends who planned to have their chinese twins take mandarin and when the mandarin teacher came for their first lesson the girls wigged out and went an hid in a storage closet until the teacher had gone.  After talking to them they were both terrified that the woman was there to bring them back.  Even after explaining what the purpose was the girls weren't interested.  They also haven't been interested in some other cultural activities planned for them by the parents.  They may grow out of this and seek more answers about their asian herratige but they are in colllege now and haven't so far... but they also have never had the experience of ever being the only person who looks like them or who has shared experience with them as they have always had an identical twin.  Maybe they get what they need of that from each other.

I grew up with biological parents from Hong Kong and flunked out of Chinese school, had zero interest in my heritage (other than celebrating New Year’s and going to dim sum or cha chaan tengs for Hong Kong milk tea and westernish comfort foods), etc... until university, anyway.  I majored in history, deciding to focus in east Asia and learned a lot!  The main prof was a white woman (and my European history prof was, ironically, an East Asian man) and she became my thesis advisor in my last year.  I never joined any Asian societies as an undergrad as I felt really out of place.  Not to mention, the Chinese students’ group never had any bilingual marketing material, so I never had any idea what was going on. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This week's storyline about the wedding venue made no sense to me. When Mr. EB and I got married, we talked about a bunch of potential places, then we looked at their websites and knocked a few off the list. After we had narrowed the list down to less than 10, we started getting pickier and THEN we made appointments to visit some of the sites in person. It was a whole process. Before we even started making a list, we talked about what we ideally wanted in general so we both knew what we were looking for. There's no way that one of us would have had a wedding planner book a venue that we hadn't BOTH discussed and approved beforehand. I would have known if he wanted an outdoor garden with trees to recreate the memory of a trip to Japan with his parents.

But I do appreciate that they're addressing how people don't always speak up for themselves. Your spouse is the person who you should trust the most in the world and be able to be 100% honest with. You don't need to squash your opinions because you're afraid of hurting the other person's feelings or upsetting them. If you don't speak up for yourself, no one will (unless your BFF is Miguel).

And I'm glad that Kevin didn't put up a fuss about how the other venue was perfect. There have definitely been moments over the years when he seemed concerned with keeping up with other Hollywood stars so it was nice to see that he didn't hesitate to switch to the other venue, sight unseen, because it reminded Madison of her happy memory. Planning a wedding can reveal just what's important to you. I remember when Mr. EB and I were talking to the caterers, they got to the part about tablecloths and napkins. Both of us were like I really don't care. As long as we have some and they're clean, great. Neither of us cared about picking the exact shade of teal or pink or whatever. The nice thing is that if there's something you don't care about but it's something that the other person is really passionate about, then yay, you get to make their dream come true!

[kili]

Quote

Before we even started making a list, we talked about what we ideally wanted in general so we both knew what we were looking for. There's no way that one of us would have had a wedding planner book a venue that we hadn't BOTH discussed and approved beforehand.

Madison and Kevin did talk about it. After the wedding planner says that she pulled strings to book The Villas at Solstice Cove, Kevin says " This is what we wanted. This is our first choice." Madison responds less than enthusiastically and Kevin asks what is wrong and she responds "It’s just, um, I-I didn’t think we’d be able to book it." So, they had put the place first and Madison didn't want to get married there, but didn't object because she thought it would never happen anyway. Maybe she saw Kevin's excitement and didn't think he would like her idea, so she just went along with it. Maybe Kevin only put it first because it's a nice, desirable place and he has to have a wedding somewhere. 

Like you said, Madison had a place she wanted so she should speak up because it might be a comprisable option for Kevin (and it was). Kevin doesn't seem much fussed about the details, so he's leaving the planning to the wedding planner while he plays with his new kids and sends e-mails.  Madison doesn't seem to care much either, but did have a venue she liked and she will get it because she expressed a preference. No compromise necessary. 

[bybrandy]

And honestly it might be that she didn't realize she had a strong emotional connection to the other place until she heard they got the first one and she realized she really, really did want the other venue.  

[Dowel Jones]

Randall finally speaks up at the group therapy:  "So, I was abandoned by my birth parents, but taken in by a white couple that just happened to have twins on my birthday too.  I grew up as 'the other' which forced me to excel in everything I did, such that I landed a million dollar job and bought a $140,000 sports car with cash just to show the world I was someone.  Then, I met my bio-dad who turned out to be a mystical jazz musician.  To be close to him I bought an apartment building in Philadelphia so i could get elected to the City Council there.  But then I found out that my birth mother didn't die, so I went to Louisiana to find out about her.  I met her partner and he gave me the deed to the property down there, so I went swimming in the lake with my dead mother.   Oh, and I got married and have a great wife and family, but I'm prone to panic attacks because of this shitburger life that I have.  What do you all think?"

Therapy group:  <Crickets>

[Leeds]

21 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Randall finally speaks up at the group therapy:  "So, I was abandoned by my birth parents, but taken in by a white couple that just happened to have twins on my birthday too.  I grew up as 'the other' which forced me to excel in everything I did, such that I landed a million dollar job and bought a $140,000 sports car with cash just to show the world I was someone.  Then, I met my bio-dad who turned out to be a mystical jazz musician.  To be close to him I bought an apartment building in Philadelphia so i could get elected to the City Council there.  But then I found out that my birth mother didn't die, so I went to Louisiana to find out about her.  I met her partner and he gave me the deed to the property down there, so I went swimming in the lake with my dead mother.   Oh, and I got married and have a great wife and family, but I'm prone to panic attacks because of this shitburger life that I have.  What do you all think?"

Therapy group:  <Crickets>

"And I check several boxes on the family diversity front - adopted, gay, seemingly well-adjusted but we will never know because she doesn't get any screen time."

Edited April 9, 2021 by Leeds
Correcting horrible unintentional grammar.

[chabelisaywow]

I still don’t like Madison.

There were a bunch of episodes on DVR I was catching up on. My 22 year old home from college watched with me, having never watched before. I had to explain. The relationship between Madison and Kate. I mentioned the meeting in the group was OA? I added “oh yeah” Toby was in that group too and I remember he was making fun of her. My daughter said, “did she have body issues or something?”

I don’t remember but I know Kevin has never been one of my favorite characters so I really don’t care who he ends up with (but I did like Sophie). 

[movingtargetgal]

Nick was a total asshole to Miguel but he was able to turn it around and offered Miguel a heartfelt apology.  During the past few episodes it has been great to see that Nick has been working the crap out of his program.  Nick resented Miguel for having had Jack and The Big Three in his life for all of those years.  He was angry at himself for the issues he and Jack had, for not trying harder to reunite with his brother, for his hiding away in his alcoholism and at Jack for dying.  He took it out on Miguel, who understood what Nick was going thru but would not put up with Nick's BS.  Miguel not only accepted Nick's apology but was able to offer him comforting words about Jack.

I hope Toby brings Madison to the next I'm not a Pearson, but I Married One Support Group.  She could benefit from hearing Beth and Miguel's experiences. 

[qtpye]

 

On 4/6/2021 at 10:11 PM, ams1001 said:

God, I can't deal with the Pearson speechifying tonight. Apparently it rubbed off on Miguel, too.

Miguel's 70s hair, on the other hand... 🤣

Can't with Nicky being all mad at Miguel, either. 

I know just how British Teacher Guy feels. I'd have zero patience with Kate, too. (He's about the only one who didn't get on my nerves this episode.)

Kate: "Can I just say one thing, real quick?" Quick?...I doubt it.

Gee, Tess, maybe you and your mom would be closer if you weren't a huge brat to her every time she opens her mouth.

My auntie had the same hair as Miguel....which is not a good sign. Maybe, there is a rule that Miguel can not look better than young Jack?

 

23 hours ago, Blakeston said:

My take on the Harry Potter reference was that it was about how they looked, spread out in a circle facing each other in a park. I don't know much about Harry Potter fandom, but I could see someone confusing them for a bunch of nerdy people doing some sort of "magical" role playing kind of activity.

Speaking of which, having a group talking about super-sensitive personal trauma in a public park seems like a horrible idea. I get that it's more dramatic to see the characters interacting in-person instead of online, but if they can give us episodes set in cars, they could show Randall's group on Zoom.

Beth's mother being so adamant about treading lightly is all the more galling considering that she appointed herself the Queen of Strictness. She probably would have given Beth a smug speech about how lenient she is to let such a young child be alone in a bedroom with her significant other, if the situation hadn't granted her the opportunity to rub her wokeness in Beth's face.

But hey, Beth is the one who wanted her to live with them!

She is always talking about her amazingness and her social grace while snatching magazines out of people's hands...no wonder none of her kids want anything to do with her.

Also, why is Randall so damn scared of this woman? He looks like he is about to pee in his pants every time she walks in the room.

Beth was so cool and now she is just a bundle of nerves with her mother pointing out all her supposed mistakes.

Edited April 8, 2021 by qtpye

[Chatty Cake]

Young Miguel looked 50 years old and that scene was so ridiculous I couldn’t even laugh. Nicky had a valid point about Jack replacing him with that douche and then the douche moved in on dead Jacks family. 
Why didn’t Beth tell Tessa that being alone in her bedroom with the door closed with her lesbian gf is what set her off vs her being with her “them” which by the way Beth shouldn’t need to practice new pronouns for a couple of douchebag teenagers. Fuck that. Be a parent. 
The Brit guy was right about Kate but I’m sure he’ll  end up just loving her because she can get shy blind kids to sing beautifully in a matter of minutes right after meeting them.

[circumvent]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:04 PM, greekmom said:

I think Tess is having a much harder time of dealing with her sexuality than her mom of having a lesbian daughter. 

Which is only natural. Other people having a hard time about one's own identity is pretty narcissistic. Haven't watched it yet but brat or not, Tess is a teenager dealing with finding out who she is, and who she is can be pretty scary in the world, despite all the "wokeness" surrounding us.

But I didn't see the issue being her sexuality but that she is a teenager, and is reacting like a teenager would react regarding anything. But I don't think she was bratty as in another episode previous. I thought it was pretty good and hopefully mirrors the real life of some people who go through the same process. There was love and an attempt to understanding from Beth's side (she is the adult, she is supposed to find a way to guide - ideally, at least)

I felt like something was missing from Randall's story. I think I can see the direction the writers are going but I still think they could gone a little deeper on how he feels. I didn't mind the adoption stories, I would even guess they got those from real stories they have heard. Obviously, we don't know the whole thing, why one would prefer to go back to a family that put them up for adoption. I can speculate a couple of things: someone who believes they can "fix" a disability or mental illness (or drug addiction), which is natural when you feel a mix of compassion and hero syndrome - you are good, you can handle it, you would have been the savior of that person's issues; or your adopted family is just not "compatible" with you, they are too religious/not religious enough/racists in a not evident way to them, but obvious to you. I know someone who was adopted from China by a white family who is very religious and cannot accept that this person is trans. They simply stopped paying for their college tuition. 

Good for Miguel! Nicky was being childish and pathetic, and Miguel was gracious for way longer than anyone reasonable would expect

[Chatty Cake]

Beth also could have told Tessa that since Deja isn’t allowed to have Teen Daddy Extraordinaire in her room that the same rules apply to Tessa the brat. 

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Chatty Cake said:

Young Miguel looked 50 years old

Maybe that's because John Huertas is 52... 😄 

[Ohiopirate02]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

Also, why is Randall so damn scared of this woman? He looks like he is about to pee in his pants every time she walks in the room.

 

I love that Carol makes Randall sweat.  Randall is used to being able to manipulate just about everyone to get what he wants, except for Carol.  He's scared of her because she sees right through him and has apparently called him out on his bullshit multiple times before.  Randall grew up with Rebecca wrapped around his finger, he needs Carol to balance him out.

[Leeds]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I love that Carol makes Randall sweat.  Randall is used to being able to manipulate just about everyone to get what he wants, except for Carol.  He's scared of her because she sees right through him and has apparently called him out on his bullshit multiple times before.  Randall grew up with Rebecca wrapped around his finger, he needs Carol to balance him out.

I agree, but I still think she's a bitch with a pole stuck up her ass.

[smartymarty]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There's no way that one of us would have had a wedding planner book a venue that we hadn't BOTH discussed and approved beforehand.

As for Kevin having a "big celebrity wedding,"  I think a small one would actually give him more press and make him see more "cool" and "with it" (as in "with the normal people").  I suppose he has to go through the motions of a "proper Hollywood wedding." 

I saw someone else addressed that the venue was Kevin and Madison's first choice. I also don't think that the woman helping them was a wedding planner, per se. She remarked on the PR success of US Magazine article, so I assumed she was Kevin's agent.

The problem with getting married in a garden rather than the Villas will be security. Though Kevin or Randall will probably Pearson-speech the paparazzi into being respectful of their wish for privacy on their wedding day.

 

Quote

I get that Kate was all weepy after leaving her kids for the first time, but you have a job now.  Do it.  Put your phone away and check it at lunch.  The music director was spot on when he was talking to her.

Full admission: I don't have kids. But this really bugged me. It is NOT REALLY IMPORTANT for you to find out whether your HUSBAND is minding your children okay. If Kate had left the kids with a brand new nanny, sure, some concerns, but this is the father of your child. You don't shush your boss on the first day of a job to take a call regarding whether your husband is not having any problems watching the children.

The difference in that girl's presentation of that song was ridiculously unrealistic. And before either the director's or Kate's coaching, how about just "lift your chin off your chest"?
 

Quote

Kevin’s easy acceptance of Madison’s venue choice reminded me of his father. It’s all about the girl.

Another peeve of mine. "It's all about the girl" is a variation of "happy wife, happy life." That's not a good foundation for a marriage. There should be a give and take. Guys who wanted me to always have my way were broken up with.

 

[bichonblitz]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:23 PM, tennisgurl said:

The first two looked happy, while Sophie looked wistful, like she's composing her own Pearson speech..

No need to look wistful, Sophie. Kevin is a big time movie star and we all know 99% of those marriages never last. 

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I love that Carol makes Randall sweat.  Randall is used to being able to manipulate just about everyone to get what he wants, except for Carol.  He's scared of her because she sees right through him and has apparently called him out on his bullshit multiple times before.  Randall grew up with Rebecca wrapped around his finger, he needs Carol to balance him out.

My mother was much more of a Carol than a Rebecca. You can not let them walk over you, but yeah it is funny to see Randall sweat.

Rebecca was soft with all of her kids probably to counter her own bitch of a mother who was more like a mean racist Carol.

5 hours ago, Leeds said:

I agree, but I still think she's a bitch with a pole stuck up her ass.

Agreed.

5 hours ago, smartymarty said:

I saw someone else addressed that the venue was Kevin and Madison's first choice. I also don't think that the woman helping them was a wedding planner, per se. She remarked on the PR success of US Magazine article, so I assumed she was Kevin's agent.

The problem with getting married in a garden rather than the Villas will be security. Though Kevin or Randall will probably Pearson-speech the paparazzi into being respectful of their wish for privacy on their wedding day.

 

Full admission: I don't have kids. But this really bugged me. It is NOT REALLY IMPORTANT for you to find out whether your HUSBAND is minding your children okay. If Kate had left the kids with a brand new nanny, sure, some concerns, but this is the father of your child. You don't shush your boss on the first day of a job to take a call regarding whether your husband is not having any problems watching the children.

The difference in that girl's presentation of that song was ridiculously unrealistic. And before either the director's or Kate's coaching, how about just "lift your chin off your chest"?
 

Another peeve of mine. "It's all about the girl" is a variation of "happy wife, happy life." That's not a good foundation for a marriage. There should be a give and take. Guys who wanted me to always have my way were broken up with.

 

I loved the fact that Kate did not have the education or experience for the job but was hired because of the amazing "energy" she brings to the table (rolls eyes).

The funny thing about "It's all about the Girl"... Do you guys remember that the "Girl" (Rebecca) did not want kids?

Do you guys remember how the "Girl" wanted just a month to tour with her old band and sing? This drove Jack back to drinking.

Jack wanted Rebecca to fit into his fantasy of a life and acted like an ass when she ever wanted to do something for herself.

The "Happy Wife/Happy Life" guys always pretend their wife is the boss, when in truth is just another version of a woman subjugating her needs for the good of the family.

Jack got his dream life.  Rebecca got an amazing life but she did have other dreams and goals that he did not seem to want to support. If her dreams differed from his, he would do a grand gesture to manipulate her back on to the "right" path.

Edited April 8, 2021 by qtpye

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, qtpye said:

My mother was much more of a Carol than a Rebecca. You can not let them walk over you, but yeah it is funny to see Randall sweat.

Rebecca was soft with all of her kids probably to counter her own bitch of a mother who was more like a mean racist Carol.

 

Rebecca was only soft with Randall.  If it was up to Rebecca, Kate would have been raised differently.  And, her parenting of Kevin left a lot to be desired.  

[qtpye]

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Rebecca was only soft with Randall.  If it was up to Rebecca, Kate would have been raised differently.  And, her parenting of Kevin left a lot to be desired.  

It's funny because Jack only accused her of being "soft" with Kevin...completely ignoring that they both indulge Randall and he never says no to Kate.

[MissLucas]

Little Jack's 'No' was the highlight of the episode. But his parents are in for a bumpy road it seems. I hope Kate starts to realize that her job description entails a bit more than just delivering Pearson speeches when needed. I liked Madison and Toby in the Las Vegas of parks. I always enjoy Pearson partners coming together.

I find the whole plot around Tess not well written therefore I'm not getting worked up about Tess being a brat. It makes no sense that Beth would not be able to use the right pronouns, and as others have pointed out her list of things she'll lose makes no sense either. She's a smart woman and has so far been shown as pretty self-aware. This is all OOC. And magical Mum has just become an annoying stereotype.

Nicky was definitely a brat but at least he came through and apologized. Miguel deserves some medal for all the crap this family is throwing his way.

The big surprise was Randall who kept his orator tendencies under check and let others do the talking for once. And I think listening to all the other people in the Non-Harry-Potter group made him think about how their adoptive families must feel. And from there to the feelings of his own adoptive family - something he hasn't done much ever since he started his quest for his biological parents. Getting the call from Kevin in the evening must have felt like an additional sign that it's time to refocus for a moment to the other side of the coin. Thanks, Isaac Basil.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

No need to look wistful, Sophie. Kevin is a big time movie star and we all know 99% of those marriages never last. 

We also know that 100% of Kevin & Sophie marriages don't last.

[Ohiopirate02]

42 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It's funny because Jack only accused her of being "soft" with Kevin...completely ignoring that they both indulge Randall and he never says no to Kate.

Yes when Kevin wants to quit football because he has difficulty memorizing the playbook and his coach is a dick.  Randall does more to help Kevin than his parents in that episode.  Jack does step up to curb the coach but he (and Rebecca) do nothing to make sure Kevin does not have some kind of learning disability or ADHD.  

[TVForever]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Another peeve of mine. "It's all about the girl" is a variation of "happy wife, happy life." That's not a good foundation for a marriage. There should be a give and take. Guys who wanted me to always have my way were broken up with.

 

I think most guys ( I know, I'm generalizing, but still...) don't stress too much over wedding details. This venue or that, one cake flavor or another, etc. By and large, the bride tends to have more of an opinion, and it's more "her day". 

[smartymarty]

6 minutes ago, TVForever said:

I think most guys ( I know, I'm generalizing, but still...) don't stress too much over wedding details.

Exactly what my husband said at the time: "Guys don't care about weddings."
 

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Jack got his dream life.  Rebecca got an amazing life but she did have other dreams and goals that he did not seem to want to support. If her dreams differed from his, he would do a grand gesture to manipulate her back on to the "right" path.

I want to like your post 1,000 times. It makes me realize, too, that all the things Miguel listed that Jack did "for the girl" was really "to get the girl." It wasn't to make Rebecca happy.

[chitowngirl]

I honestly think Kevin couldn’t care less WHERE he got married. 

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

I honestly think Kevin couldn’t care less WHERE he got married. 

Kevin is a people-pleaser.  If Madison said let's go down to the courthouse and get hitched, he would jump up and get the keys.  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Kevin is a people-pleaser.  If Madison said let's go down to the courthouse and get hitched, he would jump up and get the keys.  

It would also be the responsible thing to do during a pandemic.

[tennisgurl]

The weird thing about Randall's issues with being adopted by his white family and how isolated that made him feel is like they seemed to change directions with it a bit over the show. His issues in the last few seasons seem to be how his family never talked about him being black and how that made him feel like he stood out while also feeling alone because he hardly knew any black people. The stuff about him feeling uncomfortable being the only black person in his family or much of his community has always been there, but lately they have been acting like their family never talked about Randall being black and had a very "I don't see color" attitude to him, hence all these talks with Kevin and Kate and how they never thought about his struggles being a black kid adopted by a white family, but that's not exactly how things started. Jack and Rebecca did talk to him about being black, like when they explained microaggressions (not using that word but the idea) to him after Rebecca called her mom out on being a racist, and while it took awhile they did make an effort to expose Randall to black culture and introduce him to other black people, which was a big part of the first pool episode, and later Jack enrolled Randall in that martial arts class for black boys and fathers, and they were both very supportive of him going to a historically black college and how important that was to him, so its not like Jack and Rebecca never talked about him being black or tried to make him avoid that part of his life. There was only so much they could do, especially before they get read books or blogs or probably go to support groups for trans racial adoptive families, and they probably could have done more, but they did try to help him explore his identity as a black person. I guess Kevin and Kate never talked to him much about it, and that's why they are having all of these Talks about it with him, but Jack and Rebecca did talk to him about it and made an effort. Its not like even with that he wouldn't have issues with feeling out of place and figuring out his identity.

Then it seems like they decided they wanted to go much harder on Randall's issues with being adopted by a white family, probably because he could only change his job so many times to match random things that William did, so they really focused on how his family never talked about race and he was the only black person he knew, when that really isn't true based on what we saw, just its more dramatic and makes Randall an even sadder Randall with even more issues and room to lecture everyone. I guess that black family they became friends with after the first pool episode disappeared because they don't quite fit into their new narrative. Its just weird, and seems to speak to the show wanting to drop even more angst onto Randall and delve more and more into his adoption issues. I like a lot of what they have done with Randall figuring out his identity and his place with both his bio and adopted families, but I wish they had done it without having to almost ret-con things from his past. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by tennisgurl

[LoveLeigh]

This is not necessarily my opinion but my comment is being culled from conversations I have had with my peer group that grew up in the 60s and 70s. 

The kids of today are easily triggered and "spoiled." Years ago if a kid talked back they would have received "the strap." I myself do not agree with that abusive form of discipline, but those kids from decades ago are now fully functioning happy adults. Do they now have psychological problems? Well, the kids of today might also have issues due to coddling and parenting that is raising what some call "snowflakes." 

They feel the kids of today are coddled and parents have to walk on eggshells around them and attend parenting classes to behave in the acceptable manner. My dad's friend told his son he needs a "swift kick in the ass" and that kid grew up to be a well adjusted man. 

Every word today is scrutinized. Every word that is not textbook receives a jaw drop and gasp.  The world is hard and tough. I feel Beth is a great mother. I wish I had had a mother as excellent as she is. As a matter of fact, Randall and Beth are perfect in my book. 

And if This Is Us was real life, I would tell Tess she is a lucky child. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by LoveLeigh

[Lone Wolf]

Saw the ring getting stuck on Miguel's finger as soon as Jack took it out of the box.  C'mon, Show...do better!  Never heard of using dental floss, so there's that.  From what I saw on YouTube, I'd probably just cut off my finger, though.

Kate's gonna either persevere and win over her supervisor, or realize that she can't handle being away from her babies and relieve Mr. Mom Toby.  Given the Triumph Of The Human Spirit mission statement of this show, I'm leaning towards the former. 

Randall "I'm an orator" Pearson.  Yeah, you are.  Good for you for being self-aware enough to realize it - don't know whether I'd be quite as proud of that fact, though, although he managed to suppress it during Group.  Speaking of which, apparently there's a Group for everything now - maybe he can wrangle a discount with Orators Anonymous if he brings the rest of the fam.    

 

 

 

 

[kili]

Quote

I guess that black family they became friends with after the first pool episode disappeared because they don't quite fit into their new narrative. 

Randall considered that family part of his family back in Season 1. They were featured in the photo he kept prominently displayed in his house. 

Randall's black teacher from last season also appears to have been forgotten. 

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Kate's gonna either persevere and win over her supervisor, or realize that she can't handle being away from her babies and relieve Mr. Mom Toby.  Given the Triumph Of The Human Spirit mission statement of this show, I'm leaning towards the former. 

How long can they realistically [yeah, yeah, I know] have Toby stay home? Kate cannot possibly be making enough as a teacher's assistant to support them for very long, especially in an area like LA. Toby might have a severance package and/or unemployment to tide them over for a while, but eventually he'll have to find a new job.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, qtpye said:

My mother was much more of a Carol than a Rebecca. You can not let them walk over you, but yeah it is funny to see Randall sweat.

Rebecca was soft with all of her kids probably to counter her own bitch of a mother who was more like a mean racist Carol.

Agreed.

I loved the fact that Kate did not have the education or experience for the job but was hired because of the amazing "energy" she brings to the table (rolls eyes).

The funny thing about "It's all about the Girl"... Do you guys remember that the "Girl" (Rebecca) did not want kids?

Do you guys remember how the "Girl" wanted just a month to tour with her old band and sing? This drove Jack back to drinking.

Jack wanted Rebecca to fit into his fantasy of a life and acted like an ass when she ever wanted to do something for herself.

The "Happy Wife/Happy Life" guys always pretend their wife is the boss, when in truth is just another version of a woman subjugating her needs for the good of the family.

Jack got his dream life.  Rebecca got an amazing life but she did have other dreams and goals that he did not seem to want to support. If her dreams differed from his, he would do a grand gesture to manipulate her back on to the "right" path.

I so agree with you. I never thought Rebecca's life was perfect. She never had a voice. Jack orchestrated everything, every job, home they lived in, car they bought, vacation they went on. Rebecca went along, listened to his speeches, agreed with his plans. If she had to make another costume in 10 minutes, that's fine, if she had to cook and clean on her vacation, that's fine. If he undermines her rules with the kids, that's fine. If Kate ignores her to listen to her dad, that's okay.

Rebecca never had a chance to shine on her own. She was so fragile after Jack's death, she had Randall fill in for him. She was not that type of woman in the beginning. She didn't even want kids but had 3 and then Jack decided after losing one, she'd have another. It's TV but really, I never got the attraction just because he was romantic at times. Even THAT was for him too.

[kili]

Quote

I so agree with you. I never thought Rebecca's life was perfect. She never had a voice. Jack orchestrated everything, every job, home they lived in, car they bought, vacation they went on.

At the same time, Jack never had a voice either. He sublimated so much of who he was to be a perfect husband and dad. He kept his past, his brother and his dreams firmly locked in a box. Bringing home Randall wasn't because he wanted Randall, it was him trying to fix what broke. To get back to perfection. All his grand gestures were to try and make Rebecca's life perfect (even though they were often what was not needed - his goal was some mythical perfection which didn't always consider Rebecca as a person). 

And all of that driving for perfection and grand gestures trapped Rebecca. How can she complain about the house he sacrificed to buy? How can she object to what he's worked so hard to accomplish? So, she sublimates her true desires and goes along. What happened to that young woman who asserted herself to date who she wanted and drove to California to start her singing career? In some ways, her dad was right. Jack is a broken person and any relationship with him would be impacted by that broken person. It's not to say that they didn't love each other, but in some ways they never really knew each other.

And this was passed on to their kids. Randall striving for perfection in school to the point of panic attacks and a major mid-life crisis. Kate's checking out from life because she can't achieve perfection (not continuing with her singing career, not having a remotely healthy relationship until Toby and gaining all that weight). Randall found Beth to be his Rebecca (he smothers her in many of the same ways Jack did Rebecca) and Kate waited endlessly for her Jack. 

Kevin is probably the least impacted. Sure, he's drifted, become an alcoholic and tends to be a people pleaser but he's also chased his dreams and told people "No". He went for the grand gesture with the Villas at Solstice Cove, but he happily changed plans when Madison said she didn't want it. The counselling helped a lot, but I think because he was neither parent's favourite, he wasn't as integrated in the family and was able to break the dynamic.  He's not invested in his grand gestures (and they are easy for him because of the money), so it gives the receiver the ability to reject them. Jack invested so much in his grand gestures, that it would be hard to reject them and not feel like you kicked a puppy.

Rebecca and Miguel may turn out to be the true love story.

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I so agree with you. I never thought Rebecca's life was perfect. She never had a voice. Jack orchestrated everything, every job, home they lived in, car they bought, vacation they went on. Rebecca went along, listened to his speeches, agreed with his plans. If she had to make another costume in 10 minutes, that's fine, if she had to cook and clean on her vacation, that's fine. If he undermines her rules with the kids, that's fine. If Kate ignores her to listen to her dad, that's okay.

Rebecca never had a chance to shine on her own. She was so fragile after Jack's death, she had Randall fill in for him. She was not that type of woman in the beginning. She didn't even want kids but had 3 and then Jack decided after losing one, she'd have another. It's TV but really, I never got the attraction just because he was romantic at times. Even THAT was for him too.

Remember when Rebecca was recovering from surgery and Jack brought the kids to spend the night in her bedroom because they were "that kind of a family". It never occurred to him that Rebecca might need a some time to herself or might enjoy healing without having her family constantly in her face. He seemed very insecure and it felt like he thought that Rebecca would leave him (again, in his mind she should be married to some college educated stockbroker) whenever she asserted any type of independence.

I also like the the way that you noticed how he would put her in positions where it was impossible for her to say no without her looking like a total bitch.

[bros402]

On 4/7/2021 at 1:15 PM, TV Diva Queen said:

this got in my crawl for some reason.  So Madison has been to every park within 5 mile radius and has determined that this was the best park.  for newborns.  in a stroller?  Yes - I get that do take kids out to get them air but really - 5 miles is alot of parks to cover.  

I have to imagine that either Madison was joking, or she just walked to the parks during lockdown to see what she thought. Maybe did some test runs with a stroller.

Or maybe she liked a specific park before getting pregnant
 

On 4/7/2021 at 9:03 PM, Runningwild said:

I’m really tired of the “adoption is bad and transracial adoption is the worst” story. That does seem to be how the show wants us to see it. 
 

 

I think it is more that "Back when Randall was born, resources weren't as available" - there was, what, one person under 40 at that group?

[bros402]

21 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

Nick was a total asshole to Miguel but he was able to turn it around and offered Miguel a heartfelt apology.  During the past few episodes it has been great to see that Nick has been working the crap out of his program.  Nick resented Miguel for having had Jack and The Big Three in his life for all of those years.  He was angry at himself for the issues he and Jack had, for not trying harder to reunite with his brother, for his hiding away in his alcoholism and at Jack for dying.  He took it out on Miguel, who understood what Nick was going thru but would not put up with Nick's BS.  Miguel not only accepted Nick's apology but was able to offer him comforting words about Jack.

I hope Toby brings Madison to the next I'm not a Pearson, but I Married One Support Group.  She could benefit from hearing Beth and Miguel's experiences. 

Yeah, Nicky apologizing showed he realized it was wrong - and he didn't trying to Pearson it away.

[Chatty Cake]

Not that I want to hear about Kates weight constantly but they never mention it and ignore the fact that she is huge. When she was waddling up to her new supervisor, he had the look of what the hell but other than that, it’s odd that it’s no the addressed. There’s no mention of health problems, she was able to adopt with ease and seems to be able to handle two little ones without problems.

[Johnny Dollar]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:23 PM, tennisgurl said:

Madison really has been hanging with the Pearson's a lot, she got her wedding venue changed via a very classic Pearson speech. 

Well, she sleeps with the show’s creator, so I imagine she gets a lot of this at home. Just imagine what their conversations are like when discussing what to have for dinner. “Well, my dad once said that a real man isn’t afraid to let his wife grill a steak...”

[Court]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:31 PM, 3 is enough said:

I would worry about a 13 year old not being emotionally ready for sex regardless of the gender of their partner.  Tess is hypersensitive and quite honestly a brat.  Pretty sure Deja and Malik are not allowed to be alone in her room either. 

I agree. That's what Deja said when she came down too. I don't allow my kids to be in their rooms with their friends with their door closed. I'm always popping in to make sure they're behaving.

I agree with the others that I think that Tess may be struggling a bit here and taking it out on Beth. And if my kid called me a psycho, there would be more than just a talk and sending her friend home. 

 

[Lone Wolf]

18 hours ago, ams1001 said:

How long can they realistically [yeah, yeah, I know] have Toby stay home? Kate cannot possibly be making enough as a teacher's assistant to support them for very long, especially in an area like LA. Toby might have a severance package and/or unemployment to tide them over for a while, but eventually he'll have to find a new job.

That won't be a problem.  I understand that in his field he's what's known as a catch.  Kate will win over her supervisor, Tobes will find a company that truly deserves and appreciates him, and then Kate will quit.  Following a lengthy resignation speech, of course.

 

[qtpye]

37 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

That won't be a problem.  I understand that in his field he's what's known as a catch.  Kate will win over her supervisor, Tobes will find a company that truly deserves and appreciates him, and then Kate will quit.  Following a lengthy resignation speech, of course.

 

Also a party where all her students will claim that Kate is the greatest teacher that they have ever had and has spurred them to greatness.

[Janie430]

18 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

I also like the the way that you noticed how he would put her in positions where it was impossible for her to say no without her looking like a total bitch.

And when she did call him out, like in the NYC episode, he would make it about his insecurities and make her comfort him and back down.

[Janie430]

10 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

Not that I want to hear about Kates weight constantly but they never mention it and ignore the fact that she is huge. When she was waddling up to her new supervisor, he had the look of what the hell but other than that, it’s odd that it’s no the addressed. There’s no mention of health problems, she was able to adopt with ease and seems to be able to handle two little ones without problems.

Based on things I've read, I assume Chrissy Metz will now only allow a couple of weight related stories/references a season.  Last year it was the bathing suit and crossfit.  

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

That won't be a problem.  I understand that in his field he's what's known as a catch.  Kate will win over her supervisor, Tobes will find a company that truly deserves and appreciates him, and then Kate will quit.  Following a lengthy resignation speech, of course.

 

Maybe not  - he's a tech guy and tech moves on quick.  I hear it's hard after forty to get a new job in tech.

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I understand that in his field he's what's known as a catch.

Such a catch that 30+ prospective employers have passed on him.

[nexxie]

On 4/7/2021 at 5:49 PM, Quickbeam said:

When I saw Sophie my first thought was: “hey get back to Virgin River, you had your shot at Kevin!”. Because I watch too much TV.

 

On 4/7/2021 at 6:56 PM, Eureka said:

Along with Rebecca’s father! Lol. I forget his character’s name there. Doc something.

HA! And Kate’s cranky colleague needs to get back to A Million Little Things.

[watch2much]

am I the only one that has started to regard watching this show more of an obligation than an enjoyment?  

the drip, drip, drip of the big three's "problems" are wearing me down.  I know adults have problems but when this show started it was about a happy couple raising 3 children....there were problems but you had upbeat Jack and Rebecca to offset it. Now they've taken our comedic breathe of air, Toby, and made him another sad sack.  It's just morose person after morose person.  except for Kevin who's like a puppy trying to figure out how to act.  I like him.  

as others have pointed out....why did the Beth/Tess thing have to become such a weighted affair.  I was waiting for the "your sister isn't allowed to close the door and neither are you!" which would have shut down the "you look at me different" trope.

I don't know how much longer this show will keep my interest. Might be time to leap forward a bit and show the next generation.

[MBayGal]

On 4/9/2021 at 4:05 AM, Chatty Cake said:

Not that I want to hear about Kates weight constantly but they never mention it and ignore the fact that she is huge. When she was waddling up to her new supervisor, he had the look of what the hell but other than that, it’s odd that it’s no the addressed. There’s no mention of health problems, she was able to adopt with ease and seems to be able to handle two little ones without problems.

When she waddled into the room where Toby was to say Goodbye before leaving for her job, and he said, "I'm hot for teacher," I laughed.  Really??!! As for handling "two little ones without problems," have we ever seen her bend over to pick up Jack or get a toy off the floor?  I doubt Chrissy is able to do that.  It's only in the writers' fantasy world that she can care for babies without problems.

[PRgal]

On 4/8/2021 at 5:23 PM, LoveLeigh said:

This is not necessarily my opinion but my comment is being culled from conversations I have had with my peer group that grew up in the 60s and 70s. 

The kids of today are easily triggered and "spoiled." Years ago if a kid talked back they would have received "the strap." I myself do not agree with that abusive form of discipline, but those kids from decades ago are now fully functioning happy adults. Do they now have psychological problems? Well, the kids of today might also have issues due to coddling and parenting that is raising what some call "snowflakes." 

They feel the kids of today are coddled and parents have to walk on eggshells around them and attend parenting classes to behave in the acceptable manner. My dad's friend told his son he needs a "swift kick in the ass" and that kid grew up to be a well adjusted man. 

Every word today is scrutinized. Every word that is not textbook receives a jaw drop and gasp.  The world is hard and tough. I feel Beth is a great mother. I wish I had had a mother as excellent as she is. As a matter of fact, Randall and Beth are perfect in my book. 

And if This Is Us was real life, I would tell Tess she is a lucky child. 

This is true.  I'm in Beth's (and thus, the Big 3) peer cohort and it's very stressful.  Parent-shaming is real, thanks to social media, regardless of a child's age.  For example, I've been told that I'm a "bad mom" because I didn't do BLM (baby led weaning), but also told that I was bad for even suggesting it (usually by older people, especially those from my heritage.  We only didn't go ahead because our son's nanny felt uncomfortable and thought BLM would be a liability if he choked).  At least he knows how to eat on his own now.  You have to do something that is "trendy."  I feel badly for Kevin and Madison and I hope they shield the twins from the limelight.  Celebrity's kids have it BAD!