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Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

OtterMommy

By OtterMommy
in Everything Else TV

OtterMommy
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The guidelines for this thread are in the first post.  Please familiarize yourself with them and check frequently as any changes or additions will be posted there (as well as in an in-thread post).

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Lady Whistleup
Lady Whistleup

I just find it infuriating that we still want to look for "perfect victims." Victims are never perfect -- they're human. Amber Heard could be a truly shitty human being, and Johnny Depp could have abu

Proclone
Proclone

Exactly.  Heard isn't a perfect victim.  She's probably a deeply unpleasant toxic person, that doesn't hide particularly well...and none of that precludes her from being abused.  If you subscribe

Hiyo
Hiyo

The word "cancel" is like the word "woke", something that has been co-opted in a certain way by certain people for silly culture wars as a distraction from tackling real issues.

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MaggieG

MaggieG

On 3/10/2023 at 1:26 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Ugh like it wasn’t bad enough that people were harassing her because (they claim) her character was the reason why Eddie and Steve didn’t hook up.

I read this and it showed how far some fandoms take it. This poor girl was trolled and harassed online because she has chemistry with her costar. It's insane to me.

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Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

On 3/1/2023 at 8:00 PM, Zella said:

I was just reading about this and it sounds absolutely horrific! I'm not familiar with him or his work. 

As someone who watched Malcolm and Marie (don't watch it) and 5 minutes of Euphoria (that was enough for me) it doesn't surprise me at all.

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RealHousewife

RealHousewife

53 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

As someone who watched Malcolm and Marie (don't watch it) and 5 minutes of Euphoria (that was enough for me) it doesn't surprise me at all.

I've never seen either. I heard Euphoria was based on high school characters and has a lot of sex scenes. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) It sounded creepy to me even if the actors are legally adults.

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Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

29 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I've never seen either. I heard Euphoria was based on high school characters and has a lot of sex scenes. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) It sounded creepy to me even if the actors are legally adults.

Yup, and lots of nudity.

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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

(edited)
On 3/1/2023 at 4:51 PM, aradia22 said:

Feel free to move this if it's in the wrong thread, but yikes on bikes. Something is wrong with Sam Levinson.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/the-idol-hbo-next-euphoria-torture-porn-the-weeknd-sam-levinson-lily-rose-depp-blackpink-jennie-1234688754/

If the project is more disturbing than Euphoria, it must really be bad. Omg!  I’m embarrassed to say that I watched both seasons. (I try to keep an open mind and I have no issue with erotic content regarding adults. I gave it a chance.)   No more!  It’s probably the only show that I feel truly disgusted by.   Imo, there is a real creepy, twisted obsession with minors being naked and engaging in sex.  As I watched it, I kept wondering who came up with this?  What is wrong with them?  Our nation as a whole claims it abhors child pornography, but it doesn’t seem to be true, based on the reception of certain pieces like Euphoria.  I suppose it should be no surprise that it’s a hit and the lead actress is honored with awards for the stuff. 😒  I really hope there aren’t things we will learn soon about these projects that reveals they really weren’t a healthy environment, even if the actual actors were over age 18 when it was filmed.  
 

I just watched the movie She Said and thought it was very good.  There are a lot of people in it.  I’m going to rewatch it again.  I was inspired and angered.  

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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FilmTVGeek80

FilmTVGeek80

22 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Roiland says he's been vindicated. Nope, the standard is 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. Not the same as vindication. 

And yet an accusation is good enough for many to declare him guilty. What exactly would he need to be vindicated? Because one of the biggest issues I have with this "believe all women" mantra is that there seems to be nothing the people accused can do that will clear their names. When they're not charged, you get "well they just couldn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt or "well, they're rich, so they bought their way out of it." 

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Makai

Makai

(edited)
2 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

And yet an accusation is good enough for many to declare him guilty.

It wasn’t just one accusation. In most of the cases where there are lasting consequences there a dozens of reports of concerning behavior. There were many people who were aware of concerns. In this case the criminal charges led to others coming forward with evidence of inappropriate behavior, including with minors. There is a pattern of behavior that the high profile accusation exposes which plays a big role in the outcome.

I don’t know if he was guilty of what he was charged with but even without that there is enough to see he is a creep who shouldn’t be any a position of authority. 

Here’s a quote from Hollywood Reporter. Even if this is all he was guilty of that’s enough for me. Which is often the case in these stories. The best case scenario, the one the accused admits to, is enough to make me never want to support them in any capacity. 

Quote

To many of Roiland’s colleagues, the criminal charges came as a shock, but they also point to workplace behavior that has made them uncomfortable for years. According to multiple sources, who would speak only on the condition of anonymity, Roiland once paraded a high-profile porn star through the Rick and Mortywriters room, openly discussed threesomes and was involved in at least one instance of alleged sexual harassment during the show’s third season, notably its first with female writers.

I can think of quite a few examples where one accusation had zero effect. And way too many where multiple accusations also had no impact. 
You Dont Know Me Anthony Anderson GIF by ABC Network

Edited by Makai
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Annber03

Annber03

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Also, when people say, "believe all women", all that means is that we need to change how we as a society respond to women who make these accusations and assume she's telling the truth, instead of immediately jumping to the usual, "Oh, she just wants money/fame/attention", "She's lying", and other kinds of judgy, slut-shaming attitudes that inevitably show up. Because the fact remains that the vast majority of the time, these women are not lying. 

And if it's revealed that a woman is making false accusations? Then we can talk about how to help rebuild the life/career/etc of the person who was wrongly accused, and how to best hold the woman who made the false claims accountable. 

But yeah, these are rich, wealthy men who, at worst, lost a cushy job. They've still got plenty of money, the charges haven't stuck or they're not going to trial or jail (or, in the case of Cosby, get out of jail), they've still got plenty of defenders and supporters and already feel vindicated as it is because of all of that. And they still get to get new jobs, even if the new jobs aren't as high profile as what they had before, So guilty or not, really, not much has changed for them, has it? 

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FilmTVGeek80

FilmTVGeek80

1 hour ago, Makai said:

It wasn’t just one accusation. In most of the cases where there are lasting consequences there a dozens of reports of concerning behavior. There were many people who were aware of concerns. In this case the criminal charges led to others coming forward with evidence of inappropriate behavior, including with minors. There is a pattern of behavior that the high profile accusation exposes which plays a big role in the outcome.

I don’t know if he was guilty of what he was charged with but even without that there is enough to see he is a creep who shouldn’t be any a position of authority. 

Here’s a quote from Hollywood Reporter. Even if this is all he was guilty of that’s enough for me. Which is often the case in these stories. The best case scenario, the one the accused admits to, is enough to make me never want to support them in any capacity. 

I can think of quite a few examples where one accusation had zero effect. And way too many where multiple accusations also had no impact. 
You Dont Know Me Anthony Anderson GIF by ABC Network

The most serious accusations are the alleged crime he was arrested for and ultimately not charged with. I don't know about anything involving minors. What you've quoted from THR, the most serious accusation is sexual harassment - an accusation from an anonymous source with, I'm not sure what proof.

 

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Also, when people say, "believe all women", all that means is that we need to change how we as a society respond to women who make these accusations and assume she's telling the truth, instead of immediately jumping to the usual, "Oh, she just wants money/fame/attention", "She's lying", and other kinds of judgy, slut-shaming attitudes that inevitably show up. Because the fact remains that the vast majority of the time, these women are not lying. 

And if it's revealed that a woman is making false accusations? Then we can talk about how to help rebuild the life/career/etc of the person who was wrongly accused, and how to best hold the woman who made the false claims accountable. 

But yeah, these are rich, wealthy men who, at worst, lost a cushy job. They've still got plenty of money, the charges haven't stuck or they're not going to trial or jail (or, in the case of Cosby, get out of jail), they've still got plenty of defenders and supporters and already feel vindicated as it is because of all of that. And they still get to get new jobs, even if the new jobs aren't as high profile as what they had before, So guilty or not, really, not much has changed for them, has it? 

That is not what all people mean when they say, "believe all women." If that's what they meant, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Yes, that's the right of someone - and it's not just women who can be abused/assaulted - who makes an accusation that those accusations should be taken seriously. But, most of the time - especially on social media - the vast majority of people I've seen mean believe women quite literally. It means they make an accusation that must be 100% true. The person they accused should be automatically presumed guilty and lose their job and go directly to prison. And, if you dare expect that accusation to be backed up with something like proof, you're a rape/abuser supporter or apologist. 

And, I think it's quite easy to say from your position far away that, at best, all they lost was a cushy job, and not much has changed for them. You're not in these people's shoes, so you don't know how life has changed for them. Rich, white man or not being falsely accused of a crime isn't just some cakewalk that's easy to get past. Especially lately, if you're accused of something, that accusation never disappears, and the reputational damage is permanent. Ask the singer Conor Oberst if being falsely accused didn't change anything. And, while this case doesn't involve famous men, a young woman - Eleanor Williams - was convicted in the UK for making many false rape allegations. One of those men suffers from PTSD now. 

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Makai

Makai

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

The most serious accusations are the alleged crime he was arrested for and ultimately not charged with.

I know. Although he was charged (you can’t be arrested without being charged). The charges were dropped. 

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I don't know about anything involving minors.

It’s mentioned in the Hollywood Reporter and other places but I didn’t dive into the details. 

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

What you've quoted from THR, the most serious accusation is sexual harassment - an accusation from an anonymous source with, I'm not sure what proof.

It actually says multiple sources. Those are allegations that he’s never denied. He specifically denied the criminal charges only.
My point is that there are enough allegations, that I find believable, just in the workplace sexual harassment for him to make the list of celebrities I choose not to support. The beauty of me being just an average consumer is that I get to make that choice for me. I get to determine my own standard of proof. And, for me, repeated accusations of sexual harassment is enough. 

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

That is not what all people mean when they say, "believe all women."

It is what many people mean. Although I have rarely actually seen “believe all women” actually used by people who are part of #MeToo. Believe women is what I have mostly seen and the difference between the two is really significant. 

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AstridM

AstridM

2 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

The most serious accusations are the alleged crime he was arrested for and ultimately not charged with. I don't know about anything involving minors. What you've quoted from THR, the most serious accusation is sexual harassment - an accusation from an anonymous source with, I'm not sure what proof.

 

That is not what all people mean when they say, "believe all women." If that's what they meant, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Yes, that's the right of someone - and it's not just women who can be abused/assaulted - who makes an accusation that those accusations should be taken seriously. But, most of the time - especially on social media - the vast majority of people I've seen mean believe women quite literally. It means they make an accusation that must be 100% true. The person they accused should be automatically presumed guilty and lose their job and go directly to prison. And, if you dare expect that accusation to be backed up with something like proof, you're a rape/abuser supporter or apologist. 

And, I think it's quite easy to say from your position far away that, at best, all they lost was a cushy job, and not much has changed for them. You're not in these people's shoes, so you don't know how life has changed for them. Rich, white man or not being falsely accused of a crime isn't just some cakewalk that's easy to get past. Especially lately, if you're accused of something, that accusation never disappears, and the reputational damage is permanent. Ask the singer Conor Oberst if being falsely accused didn't change anything. And, while this case doesn't involve famous men, a young woman - Eleanor Williams - was convicted in the UK for making many false rape allegations. One of those men suffers from PTSD now. 

Social media isn’t real life 🤦‍♀️.

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DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

Not sure what to make of gwyneth paltrow skiing lawsuit.  To me she snd the guy suing her both sound nuts.  

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gwyneth-paltrow-testimony-ski-collision-accident-trial-b2307838.html

 

Not clear who hit who.  She first thought it was some sort of 'sexual assault' by him. On skis, in ski clothes, in public?   I've never heard of such a sexual assault occurring but I guess. 

And he has some 'biomedical engineer' testifying about his injuries.  Why a doctor isn't testifying I'm not sure. That's typically who would do it. He seems sketchy. 

She's trying to offer cookies or something to the bailiff before the trial. 

Only one eye witness who backs his claim.  People in ski clothes though how do you know who is who or if they are even the people in question?  

 

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GaT

GaT

16 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

And yet an accusation is good enough for many to declare him guilty. What exactly would he need to be vindicated? Because one of the biggest issues I have with this "believe all women" mantra is that there seems to be nothing the people accused can do that will clear their names. When they're not charged, you get "well they just couldn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt or "well, they're rich, so they bought their way out of it." 

It's not (or it shouldn't be) "believe all women" it's "listen to all women" As for this:

Quote

that there seems to be nothing the people accused can do that will clear their names. When they're not charged, you get "well they just couldn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt 

Well, that's exactly what the women go through, unless they somehow have a ton of witnesses or a video of it, they have no proof. Sexual assault doesn't usually have an audience. Unfortunately, that is the nature of this crime, either the alleged victim, or alleged perpetrator is lying & society (and the courts) has to make up their mind about it without any proof, but when there are multiple accusations against someone by different people, that makes most people think "guilty"

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Guest

Guest

11 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

 

I’m shocked. 

Details from TMZ:

Quote

Here's what allegedly happened in the lead-up to this. Per our law enforcement sources, police were told that the alleged victim is Majors' girlfriend -- and, according to her, they got into an argument while in a taxi returning home from a bar in Brooklyn.

Our sources say police were told the girlfriend saw another woman texting Majors, and she confronted him -- trying to sneak a peek at his phone. We're told the alleged victim/GF claims this got Majors mad, and that he allegedly grabbed her hand and allegedly slapped her.
We're also told the alleged victim claims he put his hands around her neck during this. Our sources say the woman was dropped off somewhere and that JM spent the night elsewhere. It appears the girlfriend went to police the following morning (Sat.) and reported a crime.

Sounds like they were in a taxi when this happened so there is a witness. And possibly video since most New York taxis have cameras. 

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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

I’m not familiar with the details of the Majors incident, however, it really does surprise me when abusers repeatedly assault, threaten and harass a person they are involved with and somehow are shocked when the person gets a restraining order or has them arrested.  I mean, who thinks that is acceptable conduct?  To think it’s a normal way of life is very delusional.  I just wonder how you would sleep even one night after doing that stuff.  Wouldn’t you be up worried over the ramifications?  Maybe, I’m off base, but I always wonder how these people were indulged as children that they think they are entitled to treat a person that way.  I’m keeping it gender neutral, though the majority of domestic violence courtrooms are mostly male offenders, though there are some exceptions.  Found these statistics.  
 

https://www.thehotline.org/stakeholders/domestic-violence-statistics/#:~:text=2010 Summary Report.-,Atlanta%2C GA%3A National Center for Injury Prevention and Control%2C,intimate partner in their lifetime.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

 

My mom is going to be broken hearted- I’m not telling her she has to find out in her own. She’s a huge fan (aka in lust with him). 
 

Can we not like anyone any more?? This reminds me of when Jerry (from Cheer)was found out to be a child predator. (Not saying Jonathan is a child predator). I liked him so much and went “woah!!!!”

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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

My mom is going to be broken hearted- I’m not telling her she has to find out in her own. She’s a huge fan (aka in lust with him). 
 

Can we not like anyone any more?? This reminds me of when Jerry (from Cheer)was found out to be a child predator. (Not saying Jonathan is a child predator). I liked him so much and went “woah!!!!”

I had to look this up.  Man, Jerry’s excuse is that he’s learning who he is!  That’s messed up.  
 

I guess you never know.  My former elementary school teacher was convicted of an online child offense, many years after I had graduated.  But, still…..it’s shocking.  

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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

(edited)

This is really interesting.  This interview was from last month.  He talks about wise words from his mother to be careful in life. And, how no one can build you up and no one can tear you down…..hmmm…..

 

 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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Guest

Guest

Quote

As Chaudrhy's statement outlines, the evidence which they expect will effectively clear Majors' name in the incident includes "video footage from the vehicle where this episode took place, witness testimony from the driver and others who both saw and heard the episode, and most importantly, two written statements from the woman recanting these allegations." The statement explained, "Unfortunately, this incident came about because this woman was having an emotional crisis, for which she was taken to a hospital yesterday. The NYPD is required to make an arrest in these situations, and this is the only reason Mr. Majors was arrested."

The “emotional crisis” language infuriates me. He also left out the the NYPD is required to make an arrest in these situations if there is probable cause. How does an emotional crisis lead to claims of strangulation with evidence of probable cause and reports of marks on the victim?

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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

(edited)

The piece on TMZ seemed to say that his attorney felt the DA would dismiss the charges, one the witness statements and video was reviewed.  Idk.  It’s quite curious.  What in the hey was going on in inside that vehicle to cause such carnage?  Hopefully, the truth will prevail.  
 

Found it here too. 
 

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/jonathan-major-alleged-assault-evidence-1235564860/

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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Stats Queen

Stats Queen

On 3/25/2023 at 2:48 PM, GaT said:

Well, that's exactly what the women go through, unless they somehow have a ton of witnesses or a video of it, they have no proof. Sexual assault doesn't usually have an audience. Unfortunately, that is the nature of this crime, either the alleged victim, or alleged perpetrator is lying & society (and the courts) has to make up their mind about it without any proof, but when there are multiple accusations against someone by different people, that makes most people think "guilty"

I find this all to be a complicated space that we live in today. I feel like we went from don’t believe any of these women to believe every woman and the pendulum went from one end to the other without finding a centering point.

I escaped alive from my hell hole in 1991, when not a lot was known about domestic violence and when women weren’t believed in general. This includes an ahole therapist who saw my bruised neck and exploded blood vessels on my eyes and wanted to know where my anger stemmed from. (This was in 1990).

Thank goodness we know so much more these days about violence against women. Also, we have the beauty of the Internet where women have access to information and actual organization and communities who will help them without judgment. Also more knowledge in general.

It makes me sad that in 2023 there is way too much he said /she said. In order to accommodate centuries of wrongs against women. I feel like the “believe all women” was trying to accommodate centuries of wrong doing against women in general. A nice concept in theory. However there are those who exploit any system.

I can only speak for myself and not other woman who have walked my path.

Anyone who is a victim of any kind of assault should have a safe place to land no matter their gender, or any kind of identifiers. 

I do, however, feel like many opportunists on both sides have decided to corrupt this with spurious allegations and self serving motives.

 

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Guest

Guest

ABC News has what appears to be the version from police sources. The most succinct version I have found is here on TikTok. 

Basically police sources say that Majors called the police to the home he shares with his girlfriend over his concerns about her. When they got there the girlfriend said that they were in a cab together and that he physically attacked her. That he struck her in the face with an open hand causing her pain and a laceration behind her ear. That he bruised her hand and put his hand on her neck caused bruising and pain. 

This whole situation just makes me sad. There’s no version that isn’t awful and our culture as a whole has no capacity to process the complications that go along with this type of situation. 

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Guest

Guest

Jonathan Majors Charged With Assault and Harassment Following NYC Arrest

Not much of an update on the Jonathon Majors arrest but official confirmation of the complaint and charges filed. 

He is due back in court on May 8th. No news on his lawyer’s statement that all charges will be dropped imminently. 

Quote

In the complaint, the unnamed female accuser claims the defendant did “strike her about the face with an open hand, causing substantial pain and a laceration behind her ear.” She also claims he “put his hand on her neck, causing bruising and substantial pain.”

Quote

Majors was arrested on Saturday in Manhattan in an alleged “domestic dispute.” He was charged with several counts of assault in the third degree, three counts of attempted assault in the third degree, one count of aggravated harassment in the second degree, and one count harassment in the second degree.

 

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bluegirl147

bluegirl147

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yikes. These do not do what his lawyer apparently thinks they do. I’m sure nothing will come of all this anyway though.

She had injuries so who gave her the injuries?  She says she shouldn't have grabbed his phone.  Ok so what did  he do after she grabbed  his phone?

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

And that’s what pisses me off.

Even if nothing comes of this it's enough for me to continue to not like him.  

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Spartan Girl

Spartan Girl

35 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:
1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

She had injuries so who gave her the injuries?  She says she shouldn't have grabbed his phone.  Ok so what did  he do after she grabbed  his phone?

Deja fucking view from Chris Brown and Rihanna.

Those texts are screaming “battered woman syndrome”.

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Guest

Guest

59 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Those texts are screaming “battered woman syndrome”.

Absolutely. Which only reinforces the worst case scenario. 

 

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I’m sure nothing will come of all this anyway though.

I’m sure you’re right but the fact that the lawyer felt the need to release them makes me think the DA isn’t going along with dropping the charges yet. 

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Bastet

Bastet

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yikes. These do not do what his lawyer apparently thinks they do.

Seriously.  That would work as an actual textbook example of typical responses by domestic abuse victims.

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Mabinogia

Mabinogia

11 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Seriously.  That would work as an actual textbook example of typical responses by domestic abuse victims.

Yes, reading the texts felt very "please don't hit me again, I'm doing everything you want me to do". They are actually making me more convinced of his guilt, where I was giving him the benefit of the doubt (I don't know who he is at all, so IDK if there is prior abuse or warning signs or anything, so I didn't have a preconceived idea if he was guilty or innocent.)

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