Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[JustHereForFood]

On 5/24/2022 at 6:01 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

All over social media, the people I see defending Johnny (and attacking Amber) are women.  I don't really see men commenting on this case online.  I've actually seen some men post in favour of Amber.  So, yes, I do think crushes are a huge factor in this ordeal.

Imagine Johnny being ugly or 20-30 years older.  Imagine Frank Langella being in Johnny's place in this trial.  Would these deranged fans come out with signs?  LOL.  I really don't think so.

On another forum I visit, there seems to be more men in comments and the mood was mostly on Depp's side when the trial began. The comments I saw were mostly about how everyone is always on women's side and finally there is a proof that women can be abusers too.

[statsgirl]

The Kate Moss testimony

Quote

Kate Moss gave very brief testimony at the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard defamation trial, denying that the actor pushed her down a flight of stairs when they dated in the 1990s.

Instead, Moss said that Depp came to her aid.

She said that they had been staying at the GoldenEye resort in Jamaica and, during a rainstorm, “As I left the room I slid down the stairs and I hurt my back. I screamed because I was in pain.” She said that Depp came to her aid and carried her back to the room and got her medical attention.

Heard had said that she struck Depp because she was afraid that he was going to push her sister downstairs as he had Kate Moss.

On 5/24/2022 at 7:54 AM, ParadoxLost said:

Support for Depp doesn't have to be some sad 40 year old fan girl crushing.  It could be, .... watching the trial.

This is me. I don't care about Johnny Depp other than I remember he was really good in Don Juan DeMarco and looking sketchy now, and I didn't know Heard other than from Aquaman.

So my impressions are all from the trial and podcasts that a psychologist friend of mine sends me.

Depp is a really messed up guy with a ton of issues and he's made some very bad choices. In real life, I wouldn't go near him.

But while I don't completely believe Depp, Heard is the one I really don't trust. From her "pledge and donate means the same thing to me" to her lack of make-up in the court room so that we feel sympathetic to her (I'm pretty sure she wears more makeup going out to get a coffee) to her whole demeanour, it all seems like a role she is playing.

The divorce was over and settled. Why did Heard need to write an op ed about herself as a victim of domestic abuse? There were better ways to help other victims. But not ones that draw attention to herself as that did. It's the narcissism that really pings for me wrt Heard. Depp's team called on a psychologist who talked about her having narcissism and hystrionic issues and that tracks for me. It's a too familiar pattern. As my psychologist friend says, she is lying and manipulating.

Neither of them are smelling like roses. It's all so sordid.

On 5/24/2022 at 7:54 AM, ParadoxLost said:

Heard is in the unenviable position of not being able to hire a team of lawyers to be able to counter act that (or keep cameras out of the courtroom) which is probably part of the reason it seems like her defense is all over the place and disorganized.

She is getting $2 million upfront for the Aquaman sequel.That buys some pretty good legal defense and I bet some lawyers will work for cheaper for the publicity. It feels like her defence is all over the place because she is.  Personally I think that cameras in the courtroom is a good idea to keep both sides more honest.

What I really hate is how this is ruining it for real victims of domestic violence.  Whether he is the abuser, or she is, or they both are, the quick judgments, whether it's "she's the victim because she's a woman" or "he's the victim because I loved him in movies" will make it difficult for true victims from now on, especially if the victim is a man.

[ouinason]

does it matter that Kate Moss wasn't actually pushed down the stairs?  I mean, it MATTERS, but in this context, what Amber believed to have happened (and the rumors were there) is what matters.  Either way, hitting someone you are afraid of is a weird call.

[statsgirl]

33 minutes ago, ouinason said:

what Amber believed to have happened (and the rumors were there) is what matters

There is no way that we can know what she actually believed and if it is different from what she is trying to present.

All I know is that if the man that I was involved with was rumoured to have pushed his ex-girlfriend down the stairs, I would check it out with them both personally.

[Hiyo]

Josh Duggar sentenced to more than 12 years in Federal Prison on child pornography charges.

[Bastet]

13 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Josh Duggar sentenced to more than 12 years in Federal Prison on child pornography charges.

Pretty much right between the 20-year maximum sentence the prosecution asked for and the laughable five years the defense requested.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Bastet

[ouinason]

35 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

There is no way that we can know what she actually believed and if it is different from what she is trying to present.

All I know is that if the man that I was involved with was rumoured to have pushed his ex-girlfriend down the stairs, I would check it out with them both personally.

I know that, what I meant is that Kate Moss' testimony is really not that useful.  It is good to know what happened, I just don't think this is the right forum.

[CynicalGirl]

Ugh, I just can't wait for this Depp trial to be over (and yes I acknowledge no one is forcing me to watch it). Again, I don't understand all these people and courttv talking heads saying how well he did on the stand and how likable he is. I found him very smug, contrived, and the halting, measured speech pattern indicative of someone with cognitive issues or thinking really hard so they could get their story straight. I'm not surprised he needs an earpiece to feed him his lines on movie sets because I can't see him memorizing things well anymore. I think the drugs and alcohol have affected his brain.

[BlackberryJam]

Kevin Spacey charged with sexual assault in the UK.

GOOD!

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Kevin Spacey charged with sexual assault in the UK.

GOOD!

Wow - in addition to the four counts of sexual assault (against three victims, for offenses occurring between 2005 and 2013), the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) authorized a charge of "causing a person to engage in penetrative sexual activity without consent", and, according to the posted article, that one carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.  (By comparison, in CA the max sentence for rape is eight years in prison, or 13 if the victim was a minor.)

[Jaded]

I'm so rolling my eyes at some Johnny fans romanticizing him seeing Kate Moss on screen when she testified.  There some out there going on about how much his face lit up when he saw her and blah blah blah. 

In other news I know others will be happy about Anthony Anderson Confirmed Not to Return for Season 22 of the L&O reboot. He only signed on for one season. I've only made it to the 2nd episode of this newest season and this news may make it a bit easier to keep watching. I'm distracted by some of the changes they made to the main sets letting in too much light and the way it's being written from what I've seen in the first two episodes. I'll blabber about that more in the show forum.

[Jaded]

[Ms Blue Jay]

18 hours ago, Jaded said:

In other news I know others will be happy about Anthony Anderson Confirmed Not to Return for Season 22 of the L&O reboot. He only signed on for one season. I've only made it to the 2nd episode of this newest season and this news may make it a bit easier to keep watching. I'm distracted by some of the changes they made to the main sets letting in too much light and the way it's being written from what I've seen in the first two episodes. I'll blabber about that more in the show forum.

Thank you!  Thank you!  Thank you!

[Lugal]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

"We've investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong."

[Mabinogia]

19 hours ago, Jaded said:

I'm so rolling my eyes at some Johnny fans romanticizing him seeing Kate Moss on screen when she testified.  There some out there going on about how much his face lit up when he saw her and blah blah blah. 

I mean, he could have lit up because Kat's testimony seemed like another nail in Amber's coffin. I'd be beaming if the ex I was accused of pushing down the stairs testified that it didn't happen no matter how I felt about him. 

[RealHousewife]

19 hours ago, Jaded said:

I'm so rolling my eyes at some Johnny fans romanticizing him seeing Kate Moss on screen when she testified.  There some out there going on about how much his face lit up when he saw her and blah blah blah. 

In other news I know others will be happy about Anthony Anderson Confirmed Not to Return for Season 22 of the L&O reboot. He only signed on for one season. I've only made it to the 2nd episode of this newest season and this news may make it a bit easier to keep watching. I'm distracted by some of the changes they made to the main sets letting in too much light and the way it's being written from what I've seen in the first two episodes. I'll blabber about that more in the show forum.

About time. I was stunned when I found out his history of sexual assault allegations on here. I don't need actors to be angels, but I'm all for canceling rapists/sex offenders. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/25/2022 at 5:54 PM, Hiyo said:

Josh Duggar sentenced to more than 12 years in Federal Prison on child pornography charges.

Most of what I know about the US Prison system comes from Tv shows, but isn't federal prison the one where you don't get things like time off for good behavior? So if your sentence is 12 years you are in prison for 12 years.

[Bastet]

25 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Most of what I know about the US Prison system comes from Tv shows, but isn't federal prison the one where you don't get things like time off for good behavior? So if your sentence is 12 years you are in prison for 12 years.

That's only for short sentences (less than a year).  For longer sentences, one can earn credits for good behavior or participation in certain programs that would earn an early release.

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

That's only for short sentences (less than a year).  For longer sentences, one can earn credits for good behavior or participation in certain programs that would earn an early release.

In addition, early release will at best mean 85% of the sentence must be served. Someone on the Duggar thread did the math, and at minimum he will still spend over 10 years at Club Fed. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by emmawoodhouse

[Jaded]

On 5/27/2022 at 5:40 PM, Mabinogia said:

I mean, he could have lit up because Kat's testimony seemed like another nail in Amber's coffin. I'd be beaming if the ex I was accused of pushing down the stairs testified that it didn't happen no matter how I felt about him. 

That's also true about other reasons for why he lit up. The way some were romanticizing it all just came across as weird considering the people discussing it were probably all adults. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Jaded

[merylinkid]

14 hours ago, Lugal said:

"We've investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong."

there's an actual Supreme Court case that says cops aren't required to protect you.   YES really.   It's the Castle Rock decision.   So if the cops screw up an investigation like sexual assault of young women, oh well, darn, hate when that happens, on to the next one.   SUPPOSEDLY these reviews are to find flaws in procedure and fix them.   

[Macbeth1966]

17 hours ago, merylinkid said:

there's an actual Supreme Court case that says cops aren't required to protect you.   YES really.   It's the Castle Rock decision.   So if the cops screw up an investigation like sexual assault of young women, oh well, darn, hate when that happens, on to the next one.   SUPPOSEDLY these reviews are to find flaws in procedure and fix them.   

But in this case, I believe the issue is one of the federal investigators was looking for a job through Nasssr, which would constitute as a bribe.  I drop the case you give me a job.

[Leeds]

On 5/27/2022 at 2:40 PM, Lugal said:

"We've investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong."

Is this sarcasm or an actual quote?  (Stupider things have been said.)

[Lugal]

1 hour ago, Leeds said:

Is this sarcasm or an actual quote?  (Stupider things have been said.)

It's actually a meme that's been around for years (all the images are usually political so I won't post them here), highlighting the absurdity of allowing organizations to investigate themselves.  Spoiler alert: it's never their fault.

[scarynikki12]

The meme that makes the rounds has Ned Flanders from The Simpsons so I assume that's where the quote comes from.

[Hiyo]

UK seeking return of Kevin Spacey from US to face sexual assault charges.

[katie9918]

Is there a club for people who think that both Heard and Depp are loathsome and not fit for human contact until they both go through intensive therapy and learn how to be functioning human beings?

If so, that’s the club I belong to.

If not, everyone sucks.

Edited June 1, 2022 by katie9918

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, katie9918 said:

Is there a club for people who think that both Heard and Dell are loathsome and not fit for human contact until they both go through intensive therapy and learn how to be functioning human beings?

If so, that’s the club I belong to.

If not, everyone sucks.

While I find the case interesting, I've only seen clips myself. My circle is a mix of they both really suck or Amber is crazy and team Johnny. And that includes both male and female friends. The women I've spoken to about it do see more Amber's side than the men do. Another thing is my friends either seem to find Johnny charming/likable or smug/phony in court. One friend thinks Amber is bad news but still a victim of his and hates that there are people who defend Johnny at all, and another is practically in love with Johnny. As you can imagine, these two got into a heated debate . . .

[MsTree]

I said this early on, but it bears repeating. Heard reminds me so much of Elizabeth Holmes. For those not familiar, EH was able to convince billionaires to support/invest in her product which never made it to market simply because it was all based on a lie.

Amber has that same quality...which is compounded because she's a very good actress. To be clear, the "resemblance" is about lying, not about what they claimed to be true. IMO, lying is lying...regardless of what they're lying about. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by MsTree
clarification

[Hiyo]

Quote

which is compounded because she's a very good actress

Given that despite being a washed up bloated has-been of an addict, Depp is considered by most people to be the better actor between the two of them.

Just saying.

[Proclone]

32 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Given that despite being a washed up bloated has-been of an addict, Depp is considered by most people to be the better actor between the two of them.

Just saying.

Exactly.  Heard isn't a perfect victim.  She's probably a deeply unpleasant toxic person, that doesn't hide particularly well...and none of that precludes her from being abused. 

If you subscribe to the idea that it is possible for couples to be mutually abusive then at the least you could say that's what occurred. 

If you don't believe mutual abuse is possible (which is the position many specialists in DV take) and that only one partner is the victim and anything they do to the other partner is simply reactive...then I would say it's likely Depp was the abuser in the relationship.

Abuse not only involves violence but a power differential. It seems unlikely that give the disparity in age, wealth and fame, that Heard was ever the one with the upper hand in the relationship. Couple that with Depp's history of being at least emotionally abusive with his exs...it's not exactly hard to believe his behavior escalated with Heard. Also the very fact he keeps bringing lawsuits that force her into court (even if the UK didn't name her as a plaintiff, it forced her to appear) seems like a way to further control her.

He can never have struck a previous partner and still have abused Heard. He can be a charismatic,  generous man with friends and fans and still have abused her.

She can be a deeply unpleasant person and still be abused. She can have mental health issues and still have been abused.

Just because she might not be as likable doesn't mean she's not a victim or that she should be vilified the way she's being. 

[SusanM]

10 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

One friend thinks Amber is bad news but still a victim of his and hates that there are people who defend Johnny at all, and another is practically in love with Johnny. As you can imagine, these two got into a heated debate . . .

In some ways this reminds me of when O J Simpson was on trial, I had a work colleague who believed he was innocent mainly because she had always had a crush on him and said any man as good looking as him could get any woman he wanted so.... There was no way any discussion of this with her didn't turn into a heated debate.  

[supposebly]

I really wonder about people who can't separate their celebrity crush from their rational thinking. I'm a long-time fan of Johnny Depp and I really can't tell what the truth is in this circus. However, I am also adult enough to be able separate the man (from the little I think I know), his roles, and his behavior and look at each individually. MeToo# hasn't had as much of an impact as I would have liked judging by the vitriol heaped on Amber Heard. And I'm no fan of hers either. Even if she is the worst liar in the history of liars, I don't think her (and other women's) online treatment is justified in any way. 

[SusanM]

What's really bothering me is that people are completely ignoring the whole reason for the trial.  Depp is the one who keeps dragging Heard into court.  But the way it gets played out in the wide world makes it sound like Heard is the one who won't stop harassing him and is the one continually seeking public attention over this.

[BlackberryJam]

34 minutes ago, SusanM said:

What's really bothering me is that people are completely ignoring the whole reason for the trial.  Depp is the one who keeps dragging Heard into court.  But the way it gets played out in the wide world makes it sound like Heard is the one who won't stop harassing him and is the one continually seeking public attention over this.

Or the people who think this is a criminal case where she can be put in jail if he wins. The lack of understanding of basic civics and the legal process makes my right eye twitch. 

And the issue isn't whether Amber has told lies, exaggerated, was violent to Johnny, yelled at him, or if she's crazy as fuck. The issue is whether she defamed him causing him financial harm by stating in an OpEd, without mentioning his name, that she was a victim of domestic violence.  That's it. That's the question. 

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, SusanM said:

In some ways this reminds me of when O J Simpson was on trial, I had a work colleague who believed he was innocent mainly because she had always had a crush on him and said any man as good looking as him could get any woman he wanted so.... There was no way any discussion of this with her didn't turn into a heated debate.  

One of the most outwardly gorgeous men I've ever seen turned out to be a rapist. I remember a coworker telling me Bill Cosby was rich and could get any woman. Looking a certain way or having money doesn't mean you can have ANY woman nor does it mean you can't be a major sicko. 

[aradia22]

Quote

And the issue isn't whether Amber has told lies, exaggerated, was violent to Johnny, yelled at him, or if she's crazy as fuck. The issue is whether she defamed him causing him financial harm by stating in an OpEd, without mentioning his name, that she was a victim of domestic violence.  That's it. That's the question. 

Obviously true, but I don't know if that was even the goal of the participants.

https://www.vulture.com/2022/05/what-is-the-point-of-the-johnny-deppamber-heard-trial.html

Quote

Throughout the proceedings, Depp has claimed that Heard’s 2018 Washington Post op-ed about domestic abuse defamed him and insisted that she actually abused him. Heard claimed that Depp’s denials — through one of his lawyers, Adam Waldman — defamed her and reaffirmed he abused her. Depp and Heard both claim they suffered reputational and professional harm as a result of the allegations and denials, respectively. Depp said his motivation for being in court and suing Heard was “to not only attempt to clear my name for … many reasons, but I wanted to clear my children of this horrible thing that they were reading about their father.”

“The point of this trial? Essentially it was called by Johnny Depp to reclaim his reputation, get movie roles back, and be able to make a living again and not be ostracized as he had been because of this article,” said Juda Engelmayer, the public-relations and crisis-management veteran who reps disgraced film producer Harvey Weinstein. “That is the crux of it, and I believe that’s really the ultimate goal for him, to be seen as someone who’s marketable, able to come back — not the evil guy he was painted as.”

Quote

“It seems to me that Johnny Depp wanted to get his side of the story out and let the public determine who wins here, and in the court of public opinion, Johnny Depp is the clear winner. He has accomplished his mission,” Winter Wheeler, an arbitrator and mediator who previously worked as a litigator, said. “Ultimately, though, I believe most people had chosen a side before trial started, and they’ve only gotten more entrenched with each passing day.”

Wheeler said of the public sentiment: “Johnny Depp has already emerged as a tragic hero and the trial is ongoing. He’s clearly flawed but owns up to those flaws. He went from villain to underdog in a matter of weeks, and people really want to see him win. And just as much as people want to see him win, they want to see Amber Heard lose.”

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

One of the most outwardly gorgeous men I've ever seen turned out to be a rapist. I remember a coworker telling me Bill Cosby was rich and could get any woman. Looking a certain way or having money doesn't mean you can have ANY woman nor does it mean you can't be a major sicko. 

Larry Nassar had wealth and prestige as the Olympic doctor and was described as "nice", but look what he did. You never know who might really be a monster. 

[Lady Whistleup]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

One of the most outwardly gorgeous men I've ever seen turned out to be a rapist. I remember a coworker telling me Bill Cosby was rich and could get any woman. Looking a certain way or having money doesn't mean you can have ANY woman nor does it mean you can't be a major sicko. 

Ok one thing I've noticed is people often have way less empathy if the victim is of a different race. I ran into this in discussions of Bill Cosby. I had a woman whom I respected tell me that since he mostly raped white women, it was okay. Same thing with Kevin Spacey -- have had people tell me that since it was men he assaulted, it's okay.

Like wtf? Are people this devoid of empathy that if someone is of a different race/gender/sexuality than you, the attitude is "who gives a fuck"?

[inkworks]

Those of you saying Amber Heard is probably a terrible, toxic person, can you please give me examples of things she’s done to make you feel that way?

No victim is perfect and they shouldn’t have to be, but it seems like even the people who believe she was abused by JD, have been taken in by the right wing smear campaign that’s been perpetrated against her.

Edited May 31, 2022 by inkworks

[Prairie Rose]

44 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Larry Nassar had wealth and prestige as the Olympic doctor and was described as "nice", but look what he did. You never know who might really be a monster. 

Absolutely. I found that out myself in such a way I would never wish on anyone. One never knows.

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, inkworks said:

Those of you saying Amber Heard is probably a terrible, toxic person, can you please give me examples of things she’s done to make you feel that way?

No victim is perfect and they shouldn’t have to be, but it seems like even the people who believe she was abused by JD, have been taken in by the right wing smear campaign that’s been perpetrated against her.

They just “think” she’s lying. Sad. 🤦‍♀️

[Prairie Rose]

3 hours ago, supposebly said:

MeToo# hasn't had as much of an impact as I would have liked judging by the vitriol heaped on Amber Heard.  

😢😢😢😢😢

[Prairie Rose]

3 hours ago, SusanM said:

In some ways this reminds me of when O J Simpson was on trial, I had a work colleague who believed he was innocent mainly because she had always had a crush on him and said any man as good looking as him could get any woman he wanted so.... There was no way any discussion of this with her didn't turn into a heated debate.  

The ONLY silver lining about the OJ circus was that it happened pre-social media. Even the internet itself wasn't that widely used then. Still, it managed to permeate every pore of our culture. It's really hard to describe to those of you born post-1994 or weren't old enough to remember that time. It was EVERYWHERE.

[SusanM]

8 minutes ago, inkworks said:

Those of you saying Amber Heard is probably a terrible, toxic person, can you please give me examples of things she’s done to make you feel that way?

A story I heard at the start of the trial was that she once spit in the face of an employee of hers who asked for a raise.  I have no way of knowing, of course, if this actually happened.  If it did though, that to me, is an example of Amber Heard being an absolutely terrible person,  If it didn't it's an example of the kind of lies that are going around about her,

[inkworks]

16 minutes ago, SusanM said:

A story I heard at the start of the trial was that she once spit in the face of an employee of hers who asked for a raise.  I have no way of knowing, of course, if this actually happened.  If it did though, that to me, is an example of Amber Heard being an absolutely terrible person,  If it didn't it's an example of the kind of lies that are going around about her,

“She went on to say that when asking Amber for a pay rise: "[She] leapt up out of her chair and put her face about four inches from my face, spitting in my face, saying how dare I ask for that salary."

This is her actual quote. I read it as bits of saliva coming out of her mouth as she shouted.

For what it’s worth the judge in the UK didn’t find this person credible as a witness. She also lied and said she hadn’t been in contact with Johnny Depp and it was then proved that she had been.

This is what I mean about people “both sides” -ing the argument. Is it both sides or is the smear campaign against Amber just really effective? 

[BlackberryJam]

1 hour ago, inkworks said:

Those of you saying Amber Heard is probably a terrible, toxic person, can you please give me examples of things she’s done to make you feel that way?

No victim is perfect and they shouldn’t have to be, but it seems like even the people who believe she was abused by JD, have been taken in by the right wing smear campaign that’s been perpetrated against her.

For my purposes, I just skip over the question of whether or not Amber is terrible, because for purposes of the trial, it doesn't matter. When I engage in the discussion with these Deppford Wives, I just say, "Fine Amber's crazy, don't care, doesn't matter, stop listing to me all the ways she is crazy because it doesn't FUCKING MATTER."

I find cutting the argument off at the knees is easier. 

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

For my purposes, I just skip over the question of whether or not Amber is terrible, because for purposes of the trial, it doesn't matter. When I engage in the discussion with these Deppford Wives, I just say, "Fine Amber's crazy, don't care, doesn't matter, stop listing to me all the ways she is crazy because it doesn't FUCKING MATTER."

I find cutting the argument off at the knees is easier. 

The bolded has me rolling, it is so apt.  

[BlackberryJam]

16 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The bolded has me rolling, it is so apt.  

I can't take credit...I think they call themselves that...:)

[Ohiopirate02]

20 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I can't take credit...I think they call themselves that...:)

That does not surprise me.  I have seen enough of them online that are supporting Johnny because they want to bang him, and they are not hiding that fact.  I have also seen evidence of them accusing anyone who supports Amber in any way of wanting to bang her (even if the person in question is an out gay man).