S05.E08: In the Room

[CrystalBlue]

46 minutes ago, maggiemae said:

Perhaps the TSA agent recognized Kevin and googled and approved his boarding the plane as a US citizen and not a threat.

I loved it when Nasir asked her husband years later basically to tell her what he did  as if she was a four year old. And he did. And she saw the future.

Jack could never give up being his kids hero or center of their universe even when they were teens and had lives of their own. A flaw in parenthood.  He should be involved in their teen years but not make it all family.

Good grief - Mandy had 1 cocktail which was unusual but not the end of the world. If she had asked for another - perhaps concerning. But she didn't.

Hopefully Randall will settle down a little.

But the drama is around the corner for the next episode.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt that the initial TSA agent did any Googling, as she wouldn't be allowed to leave her post; she probably called her supervisor or a superior to see if they could help Kevin.

Esther is Nasir's wife and, yes, her asking for the explanation as if she were a four-year-old was charming and showed she was engaged in her husband's work.

One little cocktail before bed wouldn't hurt Rebecca; I'm glad Miguel accommodated her.

Agree with your post.

[bybrandy]

18 hours ago, Haleth said:

Not sure I like the TSA giving special privileges to a movie star.  No matter how much he wore them down with speechifying.

Except it is only a pretend TSA special privlege.  In real life you too can go to the airport without your ID and they will take you into a little room and make you answer questions about yourself/your house/whaever and then you too will be able to fly.  It is only on TV that Kevin Pearson somehow wasn't being offered this option.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, maggiemae said:

I loved it when Nasir asked her husband years later basically to tell her what he did  as if she was a four year old.

It reminded me of the episode of The Office (S5.E10: The Surplus) when Michael asked accounting, "Why don't you explain this to me like I am an eight year old?" and after he failed to grasp their explanation, he followed that with "Why don't you explain this to me like I'm five?"

Edited February 18, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[MamaBird]

On 2/16/2021 at 9:26 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Interesting how freaked out about needles people can get. Madison is about to push two babies out of her body and she's freaked out over a needle! I'd want that needle stuck in me as fast as possible if I was about to feel that pain. I know needles are a thing for a lot of people though.

My experience with the epidural, back in 1991, was that I was in such pain that the needle was the least of my worries.  They had me leaning forward so they could insert it, and I started having another contraction.  The nurses were going to stop until after the contraction passed, because I had to stay perfectly still.  I said, "No, keep going, I'll stay still" - and I did. I stayed motionless except for one hand, which I kept flexing in and out of a fist during the contraction.  Then the contraction was done, the epidural was in, and the entire lower half of my body disappeared.

That was something that bothered me about Madison's delivery - the way she still appeared to be feeling pain and strain.  Maybe epidurals aren't as strong now as they were in '91 - but after I had mine, I settled back on my pillow and picked up the book I'd brought, and read peacefully.  Every so often a nurse would come in and check how far I was dilated, and after one of those visits, she left the room and came back in wheeling a table with (I assume) everything the doctor would need for delivery.  "Oh, is it time?" I asked casually, putting the bookmark in my book.  Even when I pushed - which they had to tell me how to do, since I couldn't feel anything - there was no strain.

Edited February 18, 2021 by MamaBird

[chitowngirl]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It reminded me of the episode of The Office (S5.E10: The Surplus) when Michael asked accounting, "Why don't you explain this to me like I am an eight year old?" and after he failed to grasp their explanation, he followed that with "Why don't you explain this to me like I'm five?"

That reminded me of Denzel Washington in Philadelphia and the birth mother talking to her baby was practically lifted out of Look Who’s Talking.

Epidurals can be turned down so you can feel contractions and push. With my twins, who had to be induced at 39 weeks, I had an epidural, daughter needed forceps because she wasn’t coming out and then they turned the epidural down so I could push and get my son moving. Didn’t work. He needed to be vacuumed out, so epidural was turned back on for that procedure.

[Gabs66]

On 2/17/2021 at 10:33 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

 

 

It was Albuquerque, New Mexico, in 1963.

I first learned the origin of the word geek (which I had always associated with nerdy stuff) when I read Geek Love in college!

Geek Love!!! I don't know anyone else who read this! 

[Trillian]

9 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Except it is only a pretend TSA special privlege.  In real life you too can go to the airport without your ID and they will take you into a little room and make you answer questions about yourself/your house/whaever and then you too will be able to fly.  It is only on TV that Kevin Pearson somehow wasn't being offered this option.

Maybe it’s just because I like Kevin, but i didn’t see him as playing the “don’t you know who I am” card. At least, not in the sense of his pulling celebrity privilege. To me, it was more of his saying that his identity could easily be confirmed by checking the internet.  Like those old “verified by Visa” commercials: does anyone know this guy.

 

[Leeds]

 

On 2/16/2021 at 7:26 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

 

Do women actually have to give birth with masks on? Interesting how freaked out about needles people can get. Madison is about to push two babies out of her body and she's freaked out over a needle! I'd want that needle stuck in me as fast as possible if I was about to feel that pain. I know needles are a thing for a lot of people though.

 

 

The mask wearing by women giving birth is ridiculous.  Next thing we know they'll be taping plastic bags over a woman's vagina so she can give birth to a perfectly sterile baby.

Was there any discussion of Madison wanting/needing an epidural?

On 2/16/2021 at 8:55 PM, memememe76 said:

I loved that scene of Migeul and Rebecca talking about Jack. And the mention of their honeymoon. That is the most married feeling I got from them. I am needing a Miguel backstory! 

I'm needing a cancelation of This is Us and a new series of This is Miguel.

On 2/17/2021 at 8:23 AM, cardigirl said:

In no way whatsoever did I think that Nasir and Esther were Miguel's parents. Too young for one thing, but I wasn't even looking for that connection. 

It never even occurred to me that Nasir and Esther were Miguel's parents - they're different ethnicities.

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, MamaBird said:

That was something that bothered me about Madison's delivery - the way she still appeared to be feeling pain and strain.  Maybe epidurals aren't as strong now as they were in '91 - but after I had mine, I settled back on my pillow and picked up the book I'd brought, and read peacefully. 

I would probably just chalk it up to an acting choice by the actress.  Television births always seem to be much more performatively dramatic than real life. 

[madmax]

3 hours ago, MamaBird said:

That was something that bothered me about Madison's delivery - the way she still appeared to be feeling pain and strain.  Maybe epidurals aren't as strong now as they were in '91 - but after I had mine, I settled back on my pillow and picked up the book I'd brought, and read peacefully.  Every so often a nurse would come in and check how far I was dilated, and after one of those visits, she left the room and came back in wheeling a table with (I assume) everything the doctor would need for delivery.  "Oh, is it time?" I asked casually, putting the bookmark in my book.  Even when I pushed - which they had to tell me how to do, since I couldn't feel anything - there was no strain.

With  Rugrat #1, the epidural wore off and I was too close to delivering to get a "booster."  I felt every second when previously, I actually fell asleep with the epidural.

With Rugrat #2, who was induced, the epidural was actually boosted a few times.  By the time he was ready to make his appearance, I felt nothing.  My husband actually had to hold my legs open because I couldn't feel them at all.

[Lone Wolf]

22 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I did wish Jack had let Rebecca have her moment of trash talking the kids instead of making her feel guilty. 

I read the same foreshadowing with that as mentioned below:

13 hours ago, HollyGoLitely333 said:

Two comments by 90s Jack & Rebecca at the cabin: 

Jack: "We only have a few more years together...under the same roof" and Rebecca: "Our family is not ending anytime soon." were heavy handed but really a gigantic bummer. 

 

Having had about enough of St. Jack, my cynical reaction to these comments was "Fewer than you think." and "Yes, it is." respectively.

I said last week that a Pearson monologue was better than an epidural - almost put that one right over the fence, if I do say so myself.  Randall was on his way to conducting one until Beth interrupted him.

I was afraid that Rose wasn't going to make it; one candle goes out, three more are lit kind of thing would be consistent with this show.  I'm glad the pigs worked.

I totally loved the baby being named after Uncle Nick because my niece named her son after me (well, his first name is my middle name).  Speaking of which, does anyone else see Griffin Dunne and think Marc Maron? 

Just me?  Alllrighty... 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Lone Wolf

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 2/17/2021 at 6:55 AM, Haleth said:

Not sure I like the TSA giving special privileges to a movie star.  No matter how much he wore them down with speechifying.

Agreed.

On 2/17/2021 at 5:21 AM, debraran said:

I loved the interaction with Kate but did it stick out to anyone she said something like she's been waiting for her her whole life and she has Jack at home? She mentioned meeting Toby her dad but not Jack unless I was so tired I missed it. Not a huge thing but it made me think "you have a baby at home".

She made it sound like she had always wanted a daughter, but between wanting to name after her idolized dad and her significant mother/daughter issues, always wanting a son seems more likely.

On 2/17/2021 at 9:29 AM, Boo Boo said:

It's so ridiculous to me that a mom of a newborn hands their baby off to a woman whose mobility is surely impacted by her obesity.   If it isn't now, it will be in the future.

I guess if they want us to believe the New Big Three was born in one night, I should suspend disbelief that a pregnant woman is going to select a morbidly obese woman with a blind child to be the mother of her baby

Maybe she liked that Kate would be home full time? Otherwise it doesn't make sense on paper to choose a couple past 40 who already have a child (and which child will need extra attention, not to mention Kate's obvious limitations) as opposed to a younger couple who haven't been able to become parents at all.  Please note that I am not implying that people with disabilities, people over 40, or parents of children with disabilities should not have kids/more kids.

On 2/17/2021 at 10:21 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Saint Jack couldn't tolerate Rebecca making comments about the kids that weren't singing their praises about how amazing and perfect and talented they were. God forbid she admit that she can't stand listening to them bicker nonstop.

That must surely stem from the constant criticism and abuse he endured as a child. He wants to see his current family as perfect.

Edited February 18, 2021 by ItCouldBeWorse

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, MamaBird said:

My experience with the epidural, back in 1991, was that I was in such pain that the needle was the least of my worries.  They had me leaning forward so they could insert it, and I started having another contraction.  The nurses were going to stop until after the contraction passed, because I had to stay perfectly still.  I said, "No, keep going, I'll stay still" - and I did. I stayed motionless except for one hand, which I kept flexing in and out of a fist during the contraction.  Then the contraction was done, the epidural was in, and the entire lower half of my body disappeared.

That was something that bothered me about Madison's delivery - the way she still appeared to be feeling pain and strain.  Maybe epidurals aren't as strong now as they were in '91 - but after I had mine, I settled back on my pillow and picked up the book I'd brought, and read peacefully.  Every so often a nurse would come in and check how far I was dilated, and after one of those visits, she left the room and came back in wheeling a table with (I assume) everything the doctor would need for delivery.  "Oh, is it time?" I asked casually, putting the bookmark in my book.  Even when I pushed - which they had to tell me how to do, since I couldn't feel anything - there was no strain.

You had what we in the business call a 'dead butt epidural' or, at least, that's what the nurses used to call it.  Epidurals can vary widely from woman to woman and not everyone gets that level of relief.  Many women are at least aware of their contractions, they feel a pressure or tightening when they have them; not nearly as intense as without the epidural, but they're aware of them.  Then, when it is time to push, an entirely different set of nerve endings is involved in sending pain signals and the pain is from the stretching of the vagina and the introitus (vaginal opening).  An epidural can work well to lessen the contractions and then not be much help at all with the sensation of the baby descending and things stretching.  

Nowadays, epidurals are a continuous infusion of medication given with a pump like an IV.  The anesthesia team can fiddle around with the dosages and such to try to provide optimal relief, but it is much more art than science.  As noted above, although it doesn't happen much these days, we used to often turn down the pump so the woman would feel enough to push correctly.  And, of course, women with really dense 'dead butt' epidurals often end up needing help getting the baby out which makes the use of forceps and vacuums more common when the woman can't get the hang of pushing.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Agreed.

She made it sound like she had always wanted a daughter, but between wanting to name after her idolized dad and her significant mother/daughter issues, always wanting a son seems more likely.

Maybe she liked that Kate would be home full time? Otherwise it doesn't make sense on paper to choose a couple past 40 who already have a child (and which child will need extra attention, not to mention Kate's obvious limitations) as opposed to a younger couple who haven't been able to become parents at all.  Please note that I am not implying that people with disabilities, people over 40, or parents of children with disabilities should not have kids/more kids.

That must surely stem from the constant criticism and abuse he endured as a child. He wants to see his current family as perfect.

The most unrealistic part of the adoption for me was that the woman chose a couple who already had a child who was still an infant himself.  Jack isn't even 2 yet; a lot of birth mothers would be leery about giving their baby to a couple who are already dealing with diapers and infant stuff.  

As an OB, I had some experience with private adoptions.  The couple looking for a child would write up a description of their lives including pets, extended families, vacation homes, etc and include a photo of themselves, often posed in front of their beautiful house with their trusty lab sitting next to them.  The idea was to make themselves as attractive as possible to birth mothers.  I must admit; I saw  more than one birth mother pick a family based on their looks or their nice house or their cute dog.  I hope they put a little more thought into it than that; but those are the things they would talk about in reference to the families they chose for their baby.  Granted, I saw far more teens giving up babies than adults with other children; but, Toby and Kate would not have been likely to have been chosen in real life from what I saw back in the day.  However, no matter how they chose the prospective adoptive parents, my experience was that somewhere around 90% of birth mothers changed their minds and took their babies home with them anyway.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Leeds said:

Was there any discussion of Madison wanting/needing an epidural?

 

No, but we saw her get the epidural, so she must've wanted it.  About 80-90% of women giving birth in the hospital these days get an epidural.  When I practiced OB, I would often encourage women expecting twins to at least let the anesthesiologist place an epidural catheter even if it wasn't dosed.  The reason is that, sometimes with twins, after the first baby delivers, the second baby, now having a nice big uterus all to itself, can float into a position that is not conducive to vaginal birth.   We can manually manipulate baby #2 to try and get it headed in the right direction, but that can be painful, so it helps if we can give mom something to take the edge off because it is very tough to move the kiddo around if mom is tense and in pain.  Also, cesareans are much more likely with twins and having anesthesia on board in advance makes it more likely the mother can be awake for the surgery.

[debraran]

50 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

No, but we saw her get the epidural, so she must've wanted it.  About 80-90% of women giving birth in the hospital these days get an epidural.  When I practiced OB, I would often encourage women expecting twins to at least let the anesthesiologist place an epidural catheter even if it wasn't dosed.  The reason is that, sometimes with twins, after the first baby delivers, the second baby, now having a nice big uterus all to itself, can float into a position that is not conducive to vaginal birth.   We can manually manipulate baby #2 to try and get it headed in the right direction, but that can be painful, so it helps if we can give mom something to take the edge off because it is very tough to move the kiddo around if mom is tense and in pain.  Also, cesareans are much more likely with twins and having anesthesia on board in advance makes it more likely the mother can be awake for the surgery.

I never realized how lucky I was. I arrived at hospital with my twins around 8am, had my smallest daughter at 8:06 and her sister at 8:15. They were 4 wks early so first one almost slipped out! They were second birth too.

I agree, no disrespect to Kate and Toby, but on paper, I thought they were an odd choice because she had a son barely over a year and he had special needs not fully addressed as they were learning on the go. Her urgency for another so soon (besides age) seemed like she wanted a baby that was not in need of the same care. I'm not saying her character felt that way, but I'd wonder reading her bio why so soon?

[memememe76]

22 minutes ago, debraran said:

I never realized how lucky I was. I arrived at hospital with my twins around 8am, had my smallest daughter at 8:06 and her sister at 8:15. They were 4 wks early so first one almost slipped out! They were second birth too.

I agree, no disrespect to Kate and Toby, but on paper, I thought they were an odd choice because she had a son barely over a year and he had special needs not fully addressed as they were learning on the go. Her urgency for another so soon (besides age) seemed like she wanted a baby that was not in need of the same care. I'm not saying her character felt that way, but I'd wonder reading her bio why so soon?

I don't think they thought they would find a match so quickly, so applied thinking years could go by before they adopted a child.

[Crs97]

On 2/17/2021 at 2:54 PM, txhorns79 said:

I did wish Jack had let Rebecca have her moment of trash talking the kids instead of making her feel guilty. 

The more they show this side of Jack, the more I think the epic love story is really Rebecca and Miguel.  Miguel is the one who quietly supports everyone, including Rebecca.  My god does Jack seem to enjoy making Rebecca feel small.

[debraran]

33 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

The more they show this side of Jack, the more I think the epic love story is really Rebecca and Miguel.  Miguel is the one who quietly supports everyone, including Rebecca.  My god does Jack seem to enjoy making Rebecca feel small.

I never really liked him. He made all the decisions and if she agreed fine, if not, he'd have a speech. I remember the times he would put her down or undermine what Rebecca wanted, as with Kate. I remember him asking/telling her to make another Halloween costumes last minute when Kate, says she doesn't want to be a veterinarian after Rebecca spent a long time making the costume. She wanted Sandy from Grease, and Jack says she'd do it. Rebecca doesn't like it but does it. There were a lot of things a fan put together once but I know no one is perfect. I had a dad who let my 1960's mom make most of the decisions but she included him. My husband from their era never would do what Jack did with the kids or tell me to make things or where we are vacationing,  but of course we didn't always agree on things.

I think Jackk tried and was a good person in many ways but being romantic also benefited him. Vacations were always for the family and I don't remember too much for Rebecca. Even Randall was kind of put on her while she was recovering from birth and no regard to her feelings about Kyle. "This will make it better"

There are a lot of uninvolved dads and I suppose Jack seems "super dad" to many women but never the end all to me. I like Miguel and I know he sees Rebecca as a person and wants the best for her. Jack loved her too but she was so used to having someone tell her what to do, Randall had to take his place. She shouldn't have needed him like that. Kate shouldn't have been that insecure and "all about dad" either.

Edited February 18, 2021 by debraran

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

He made all the decisions and if she agreed fine, if not, he'd have a speech. I remember the times he would put her down or undermine what Rebecca wanted, as with Kate

I don’t think I have forgiven him ever since he explained racism to Randall with “You know how Mom sometimes says things that should be nice, but you know they aren’t really?”

[Leeds]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

No, but we saw her get the epidural, so she must've wanted it.  About 80-90% of women giving birth in the hospital these days get an epidural.  When I practiced OB, I would often encourage women expecting twins to at least let the anesthesiologist place an epidural catheter even if it wasn't dosed.  The reason is that, sometimes with twins, after the first baby delivers, the second baby, now having a nice big uterus all to itself, can float into a position that is not conducive to vaginal birth.   We can manually manipulate baby #2 to try and get it headed in the right direction, but that can be painful, so it helps if we can give mom something to take the edge off because it is very tough to move the kiddo around if mom is tense and in pain.  Also, cesareans are much more likely with twins and having anesthesia on board in advance makes it more likely the mother can be awake for the surgery.

What?  That's akin to saying "She asked for it".

[Josiemae]

On 2/17/2021 at 5:13 PM, chitowngirl said:

Epidural needles are big honking needles!!!

I’m glad they didn’t put Griffin Dunne’s name in the opening credits. I would have been satisfied knowing the baby was named after Uncle Nicky and knowing he would be glad about that. Seeing him and the “how about that!” was extra special.

Actually, the needles itself isn't large. The needle is only used to puncture the skin and underlying tissue. The long piece you saw (in ridiculously dramatic fashion ala "This Is Us") is a cannula that serves to guide the very small tubing (through which the anesthetic is run) in place. Neither the needle nor the long cannula remain in place. Just the wire-thin tubing.

Hope that makes sense,

Retired Labor & Delivery RN (who won't go into all the other unrealistic delivery scenes we saw tonight.)

[Josiemae]

2 hours ago, Leeds said:

What?  That's akin to saying "She asked for it".

Well, of course she asked for it!!! As a matter of fact, she signed a consent form that legally states "she asked for it". 

[circumvent]

I liked the episode and I liked how they did the scenes with the babies, safely focusing only on the faces, without showing the person holding them, or showing the unmasked person holding the baby, probably a fake baby because the actor was unmasked. 

I saw upthread some criticisms about how Kevin saying that Randall was the best person he knew. I thought it was very much in character for Kevin to say that, at that moment. Randall was the one doing all he could to comfort Madison, Kevin was super invested on being there for her and that was important to him. It is something that people do say to other people in specific moments. It is an emotional statement. 

[nexxie]

Up there with my favorite episodes - loved the spotlight on connection, even if it doesn’t look the same throughout the years. Brilliant to include both the blurred handprints and the internet in this storyline!

[Leeds]

8 hours ago, Josiemae said:

Well, of course she asked for it!!! As a matter of fact, she signed a consent form that legally states "she asked for it". 

Thank you and sorry.  Between the pandemic and a snowpocalypse I have become more irrational and twitchy than normal.  

[Earmuffs Mom]

On 2/16/2021 at 9:18 PM, pennben said:

Fans of Grey’s Anatomy could have told Toby to give that spot up pronto—-don’t want to mess with that guy at a hospital!!😀

As soon as I saw him, I said, "He shot Derek on Grey's!  Give that man his spot!"

[doodlebug]

12 hours ago, Leeds said:

What?  That's akin to saying "She asked for it".

No, it's not.  I was saying that women in labor do not get epidurals unless they want them and, generally, even sign a consent before it is given.  If Madison didn't want an epidural and agree to it, she wouldn't have had it.  Informed consent is a real thing in medical care.  If Madison was given an epidural without her consent, that is assault and she can file charges.

Edited February 19, 2021 by doodlebug

[smartymarty]

On 2/18/2021 at 1:33 AM, bybrandy said:

Except it is only a pretend TSA special privilege.  In real life you too can go to the airport without your ID and they will take you into a little room and make you answer questions about yourself/your house/whatever and then you too will be able to fly.

Exactly. I didn't have my driver's license once. They asked if I had anything else on me with my name on it, and I produced my credit cards (fortunately this wasn't a forgotten wallet episode -- I'd removed my license for something and had forgotten to put it back). They took me to a special room where two different people patted me down while also checking my name in a database, I presume a no-fly list. Same procedure at the other airport when I flew home.

Of course, they couldn't show that because that would not have been dramatic. They only showed the "Oh no! He might not make it!" Then yada-yada-yada'ed how he actually did.

And please, I get it that fathers too want to be there for the birth. But this was all about Kevin needing to be there for Madison that I found infantilizing. She absolutely could handle giving birth without him there. Women for centuries have handled giving birth without their husbands there.

Similar with Rebecca. You want to be there, but you're not letting anyone down by not being there. Geez. The Pearsons with their self-importance. If I were Miguel, I would have lost it with Rebecca's whining.

So who was watching baby Jack while Toby camped out in the parking lot? And why did Toby camp out in the parking lot instead of just staying home? Nobody was going to bring the baby outside for him to see.

[doodlebug]

9 hours ago, Josiemae said:

Actually, the needles itself isn't large. The needle is only used to puncture the skin and underlying tissue. The long piece you saw (in ridiculously dramatic fashion ala "This Is Us") is a cannula that serves to guide the very small tubing (through which the anesthetic is run) in place. Neither the needle nor the long cannula remain in place. Just the wire-thin tubing.

Hope that makes sense,

Retired Labor & Delivery RN (who won't go into all the other unrealistic delivery scenes we saw tonight.)

I can cosign on this.  The actual needle that reaches the epidural space, while long, because it has to go through several inches of tissue, is very, very thin, like a fine sewing needle.  They use the introducer or cannula to prevent the fine needle from bending as it is inserted.

[smartymarty]

20 hours ago, Leeds said:

It never even occurred to me that Nasir and Esther were Miguel's parents - they're different ethnicities.

I wondered it just because I was trying to tie them into the TIU plot. I thought it odd because I'd always believed Miguel was hispanic.

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Exactly. I didn't have my driver's license once. They asked if I had anything else on me with my name on it, and I produced my credit cards (fortunately this wasn't a forgotten wallet episode -- I'd removed my license for something and had forgotten to put it back). They took me to a special room where two different people patted me down while also checking my name in a database, I presume a no-fly list. Same procedure at the other airport when I flew home.

Of course, they couldn't show that because that would not have been dramatic. They only showed the "Oh no! He might not make it!" Then yada-yada-yada'ed how he actually did.

And please, I get it that fathers too want to be there for the birth. But this was all about Kevin needing to be there for Madison that I found infantilizing. She absolutely could handle giving birth without him there. Women for centuries have handled giving birth without their husbands there.

Similar with Rebecca. You want to be there, but you're not letting anyone down by not being there. Geez. The Pearsons with their self-importance. If I were Miguel, I would have lost it with Rebecca's whining.

So who was watching baby Jack while Toby camped out in the parking lot? And why did Toby camp out in the parking lot instead of just 

I flew with my Dad once and I had made the reservations.  My father always went by his middle name, but, when I made the reservation, I used his actual first name.  How was I to know that  sometime, over the years, my father had his driver's license changed to reflect the name he actually used and just dropped his first name?  TSA caught the discrepancy and were up in arms about it-my dad was in his 70's and walked with a cane, BTW.  Eventually, my father was able to go through his wallet and find a health insurance care that contained both his first and middle names and we got on the plane.  

How many people give birth with their mom right there?  Most of the thousands I have delivered did not have their mother at the hospital, let alone in the room with them.  Plenty of time for bonding later.  Rebecca was being ridiculous; I guess we could chalk it up to the dementia.  Madison had been pregnant for months, she was due to deliver within 6 weeks and Rebecca was on the other side of the country.  No one expected her to be there.

[ams1001]

49 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

How many people give birth with their mom right there?  Most of the thousands I have delivered did not have their mother at the hospital, let alone in the room with them.  Plenty of time for bonding later.  Rebecca was being ridiculous; I guess we could chalk it up to the dementia.  Madison had been pregnant for months, she was due to deliver within 6 weeks and Rebecca was on the other side of the country.  No one expected her to be there.

Not to mention, she's not Madison's mom. She's not even her mother-in-law. If I were Madison, I wouldn't want her there, anyway. And there's no point in waiting in the waiting room for potentially hours, even in normal times when you can expect to be able to visit after the baby's born. 

[Leeds]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

 

How many people give birth with their mom right there?  Most of the thousands I have delivered did not have their mother at the hospital, let alone in the room with them.  Plenty of time for bonding later.  Rebecca was being ridiculous; I guess we could chalk it up to the dementia.  Madison had been pregnant for months, she was due to deliver within 6 weeks and Rebecca was on the other side of the country.  No one expected her to be there.

A couple of decades ago when I had my children, it was all the rage in my hippy state to have all sorts of relatives and friends present at the birth. My mum had no interest in being present, and waited to spend the time and money to visit us for six weeks, when my local friend/community support had dried up, and the baby was starting to have some personality.

[Ohiopirate02]

15 minutes ago, Leeds said:

A couple of decades ago when I had my children, it was all the rage in my hippy state to have all sorts of relatives and friends present at the birth. My mum had no interest in being present, and waited to spend the time and money to visit us for six weeks, when my local friend/community support had dried up, and the baby was starting to have some personality.

In the part of the South where I reside, it is very common for the whole extended family to wait at the hospital for just about any procedure.  Whole families take over waiting rooms for hours.  Once the patient is in a regular room for the night, the hospital wheels in the roll-away for the spouse to stay the night.  People used to live in the hospital for days while their loved ones were admitted.  Leaving only to get some food and to move the car.  Part of this is we are a regional hospital and it is not uncommon for the patient to live an hour or more away.  

I do get why Rebecca would want to be there for her kids though.  The worst days in Rebecca's life happened in hospitals.  As much as she hates them, she knows first-hand that deliveries do not always go smoothly and shit happens.  

[bybrandy]

I'm fine with Toby being in the parking lot.  There was a decent chance that the birth mom was going to decide she couldn't go through the adoption and then Kate is alone not bringing home the baby.  Being there to support each other through that loss would have been importnat.  Toby didn't need to be there for a happy birth scenario but a less happy birth scenario then having Toby in the parking lot is really helpful.   Baby Jack is less than two.  He won't remember that time he had a sitter for 18 hours while his dad chilled in a parking lot.  

And I think for Rebecca wasn't so much that she wasn't there as that she couldn't be there.   She couldn't be there with the pandemic and with her diagnosis she knows the amount of time she has left to be there is dwindling.   There is coming a time when her kids will need her and she'll be phsyically present but not mentally present so on this day when both kids are going through something big and she can't be there it is extra difficult.  And yes she would be sitting around waiting for updates in California the same as she was in Pennysilvania but at least she would be there if there was a way she could be useful by being with jack or running out to get Maddison some extra whatever...   

It is hard being issolated when your family is going through something and right now both the pandemic and her diagnosis issolate her.

I've being going winter weather and every single time I talk to my sisters (and our mom lives with me so they've been checking in a lot) they are all like, "I wish so much i could be there to help you through this" and I'm all like, but then you'd need even more water for me to boil!

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Not to mention, she's not Madison's mom. She's not even her mother-in-law. If I were Madison, I wouldn't want her there, anyway. And there's no point in waiting in the waiting room for potentially hours, even in normal times when you can expect to be able to visit after the baby's born. 

And, of course, as we saw when Kate was supporting the birth mother, hospitals are only allowing one support person per patient anyway.  Odds are, even if she had been in California, Rebecca would not have been able to see any of those babies in person until they were released from the hospital. At best, she'd have been hanging in the parking lot with Toby; the cabin with Miguel was a much better option.

  In the case of Kevin's kids, who were premature, they'd probably would be taken straight to the NICU and would remain there for at least a week until they were completely stable.  In real life, Kevin and Madison probably would not have been holding them right after the delivery, let alone making phone calls and showing them off unless the kids' oxygen levels were being monitored-which they weren't.

Edited February 19, 2021 by doodlebug

[Crs97]

But Kevin’s biggest complaint is that his mother wasn’t there for him when he needed her.  Of course Rebecca would want to be close for his biggest life-changing event.

[nixgirl28]

22 hours ago, Leeds said:

What?  That's akin to saying "She asked for it".

Are you suggesting she didn't ask for an epidural, they just gave her one automatically? Or are you comparing epidurals to rape? If she was getting an epidural she asked for it and signed paperwork consenting to it.

[CrystalBlue]

10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I flew with my Dad once and I had made the reservations.  My father always went by his middle name, but, when I made the reservation, I used his actual first name.  How was I to know that  sometime, over the years, my father had his driver's license changed to reflect the name he actually used and just dropped his first name?  TSA caught the discrepancy and were up in arms about it-my dad was in his 70's and walked with a cane, BTW.  Eventually, my father was able to go through his wallet and find a health insurance care that contained both his first and middle names and we got on the plane.  

How many people give birth with their mom right there?  Most of the thousands I have delivered did not have their mother at the hospital, let alone in the room with them.  Plenty of time for bonding later.  Rebecca was being ridiculous; I guess we could chalk it up to the dementia.  Madison had been pregnant for months, she was due to deliver within 6 weeks and Rebecca was on the other side of the country.  No one expected her to be there.

First, I want to finally say I love your contributions and insights you give because of your experience and profession.

It's been my experience in flying with my elderly dad that TSA targets anyone with gray hair and puts them through the wringer much more than logical.  I get the metal detection with wheelchairs and canes, but they seem to pick on the elderly a lot.

Rebecca being ridiculous was just Rebecca, with the self-importance of being a Pearson. I don't think dementia was a factor.  😄

Edited February 20, 2021 by CrystalBlue
spacing.

[BoogieBurns]

On 2/17/2021 at 8:03 AM, nilyank said:

I expect a flashback when Rebecca was pregnant with the triplets and then hiding behind a blanket in the present scenes.

Mandy's full term belly is quite small, so she looks about 5 months pregnant with triplets. They haven't really explored that time frame, so I agree, use it while you've got it, writers!

[ThisIsHeather]

On 2/17/2021 at 3:03 AM, Armchair Critic said:

I honestly am not a crier but this show gets me almost every time. When Kate said "the new Big 3" it got me again.

Same here, I managed to get through the whole episode, but when she said that... WHOOOOSH.  Every time!  

[Nozycat]

I just watched the ep and thought the flashback guy was a horrible husband and father.  Yes he made an amazing discovery but imo that doesn't give him a pass on neglecting his family.

[debraran]

Not all twins need the NICU. I had twins 4-5 wks early but at 4.6 and 5.10 I think, they were 9 apgar score and never left my side. I had them Friday and was home Sunday morning. I don't know what fiction they made up with Madison but we went through the NICU with Jack Jr, that was enough. Repeating another stint there wouldn't make this a happy episode and with covid, it would have meant more separation and angst. The fact it could be true is enough for me. Sometimes that is stretched widely on the show.

Edited February 20, 2021 by debraran

[BoogieBurns]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

Not all twins need the NICU.

I think they even had Madison mention last week that they were ready (size wise), aka no mandatory NICU for being preemies. 

[Ohmo]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:05 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Yup a new Big Three born on the same night. We all saw that coming.

That bothered me more than I expected. Kate's Jack was excluded too, but the very first thing that I thought of was that Haley, Frannie, and Nick are Kevin and Kate's children.  Rebecca's white grandchildren.  Tess and Annie were born years ago, I understand that, but this felt very exclusionary to me.  Tess and Annie have always been on the fringes of storytelling anyway, but this magnified it for me.

[jacksgirl]

On 2/17/2021 at 5:55 AM, Haleth said:

 

Was it?  I loved him on TWW!  Glad Rose seems to be ok.

Recognized his voice before his face. Loved him on West Wing. 

[Calvada]

On 2/18/2021 at 1:41 PM, doodlebug said:

The most unrealistic part of the adoption for me was that the woman chose a couple who already had a child who was still an infant himself.  Jack isn't even 2 yet; a lot of birth mothers would be leery about giving their baby to a couple who are already dealing with diapers and infant stuff.  

As an OB, I had some experience with private adoptions.  The couple looking for a child would write up a description of their lives including pets, extended families, vacation homes, etc and include a photo of themselves, often posed in front of their beautiful house with their trusty lab sitting next to them.  The idea was to make themselves as attractive as possible to birth mothers.  I must admit; I saw  more than one birth mother pick a family based on their looks or their nice house or their cute dog.  I hope they put a little more thought into it than that; but those are the things they would talk about in reference to the families they chose for their baby.  Granted, I saw far more teens giving up babies than adults with other children; but, Toby and Kate would not have been likely to have been chosen in real life from what I saw back in the day.  However, no matter how they chose the prospective adoptive parents, my experience was that somewhere around 90% of birth mothers changed their minds and took their babies home with them anyway.

I have a cousin who has adopted 2 children.  They had to do a scrapbook like you said. They were advised to make it look like they led a fun life.  They were chose by a young birth mother (age 19 I think)  the first time.  They started the process again when their daughter was about 15 months old, assuming it would take a long time, probably years. They were chosen by a birth mother when their daughter was 18 months old; the birth mother was a month from delivery, so their daughter and son are just 19 months apart.  The second birth mom was mid 30s and picked them because she wanted her child to have a sibling. My cousin and her husband were in shock, not expecting to have another baby so soon.  They had to borrow a crib from friends since their daughter wasn't in a big girl bed yet, and they had 2 kids in diapers for a while.   

I like the name Frances and didn't really care for Randall acting like it was such a strange name.  A lot of people are going back to those traditional names that were popular a couple generations back.  I have one of those names myself.  Plus I think it's a bad idea to appear to be critical of a name someone has decided on - that's their kid you're talking about!   

And what a TV trope (I should be posting in a different thread) that someone about to have a baby will meet a person in the hospital who has such an impression on them that the person's name will be suggested for the newborn - it happened on Growing Pains, NCIS, and probably some other show(s) I'm forgetting about.  We all knew immediately that Rose would be part of that baby's name.  Where did Hailey come from?  Was that a decision from some other episode?  I assumed that Kate would insist on her daughter being named Jacqueline so she could have a Jack and Jackie.  

[ams1001]

  

33 minutes ago, Calvada said:

I like the name Frances and didn't really care for Randall acting like it was such a strange name.  A lot of people are going back to those traditional names that were popular a couple generations back.  I have one of those names myself.  Plus I think it's a bad idea to appear to be critical of a name someone has decided on - that's their kid you're talking about!   

I know two people with sons named Henry, both early teens. And yeah, whatever you think of a baby's name, you don't say it to the parents!

33 minutes ago, Calvada said:

Where did Hailey come from?  Was that a decision from some other episode?  I assumed that Kate would insist on her daughter being named Jacqueline so she could have a Jack and Jackie.  

I can't recall a story behind the name Hailey. Which seems odd for a Pearson...

[Ohmo]

38 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I can't recall a story behind the name Hailey. Which seems odd for a Pearson...

Something about Kate wanting Chloe, but there was a reason that Chloe was out.  Think it had something to do with the birth mother.  I don't remember the reason, but Chloe became Hailey.