S04.E04: 9-1-1, What's Your Grievance?

[jewel21]

Athena investigates a mysterious murder during a neighborhood block party and the 118 rush to save lives endangered by a bomb threat. Meanwhile, Chimney has a hard time keeping secrets when Maddie and Buck's parents come to town.

Airdate: 02/08/2021

[anna0852]

Good job May!

That neighborhood shooting story had to have come from a former Bones writer. 3/4 of it was a straight lift from a season 5 episode. 

Whoever had 'secret dead Buckley sibling' called it.

[Irlandesa]

21 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

Whoever had 'secret dead Buckley sibling' called it.

Yep.  All that remains is to know whether Buck was a replacement baby or the baby that was supposed to save Daniel's life.

[Kleav]

The bomber reacted as if it were something bigger than merely a deceased brother. The theory about Buck as potential savior baby is a good one. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Kleav
Changed to reflect subsequent comment.

[preeya]

"That's Daniel, and he was our brother"

My guess as to the "secret" is that Evan (Buck) had something to do with Daniel's demise.

I keep getting the "Rainman" flashback.

[Bulldog]

Are they adding ink to Chimney each episode?  Maybe its my imagination, but it seems every time he's shown shirtless, he has a new tattoo.  I'm assuming they are the actor's real tattoos. 

Loved Chimney's reaction when Maddie's dad asked if he went by a nickname. 

I'm really warming up to Albert.  Between him running away from the basketball court and throwing the piece of cheese into the oven, he's quickly becoming one of my favorites. 

1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

That neighborhood shooting story had to have come from a former Bones writer. 3/4 of it was a straight lift from a season 5 episode. 

The story sounded familiar to me too, but I never watched Bones.  Trying to place where I'd seen it. 

 

1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

Whoever had 'secret dead Buckley sibling' called it.

Honestly, it seemed a little anti-climatic to me.  Especially after the writers did such contortions to hold off the big reveal to the very end.  I don't doubt that finding out such a thing would be shocking, even upsetting.  But compared to some of the scenarios proposed in last week's comments, it didn't seem all that dramatic.  Mileage may vary, of course.   And yeah, no doubt that Daniel had some disease and Buck was conceived with the hopes of finding a cure. 

 

[Court]

27 minutes ago, preeya said:

"That's Daniel, and he was our brother"

My guess as to the "secret" is that Evan (Buck) had something to do with Daniel's demise.

I keep getting the "Rainman" flashback.

I was thinking this or they were both in an accident and Buck survived. 

I cracked up at Albert running away from the basketball court. I watched that part 3 times. 

I'm here for more shirtless Chimney.  

[DearEvette]

I enjoyed the unfolding of the whole terrible neighbor story.  The gay couple whose dog she poisoned were my favorites. They had no fucks to give about her death,  LOL.  Also the bigamist/identity thief was a good add to it.  Her story alone was bonkers and she was just so matter-of-fact about it. I figured that was Checkov's Gnome when that cop almost tripped over it in the first scene and realized the vic must've offed herself somehow before the whole story came out.

On a shallow note, May looked extra pretty in this episode.  Also good for her! 

Put me in the camp of thinking there is more to the story about Buck's and Maddie's dead sibling.  The parents seem to resent Buck. I mean, sure my Kid #1's baby book is a little more tricked out than Kid #2 but still, Kid #2 has one!  Make you wonder about the parents even more, though.  Buck had no clue he had a sibling.  That means there was no evidence in their home that this kid existed all through Buck's childhood and growing up at home. No pictures.  No home movies.  No mention from any other family members.  Who erases a dead child so completely from their lives?

[jewel21]

I can't believe anyone would want to poison that adorable little dog. I'm glad that lady died, heh. 

Alfred running off of the basketball court made me laugh. He's a really fun character. 

So I'm glad it's a dead sibling and not Maddie is Buck's mother. I'm curious to learn more about what happened to Daniel. 

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

I'm really warming up to Albert.  Between him running away from the basketball court and throwing the piece of cheese into the oven, he's quickly becoming one of my favorites. 

Same here. He and Chimney were delightful this episode. I'm glad that Chim got to unload his secret, even if it was to Stan the Bomber.

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

Honestly, it seemed a little anti-climatic to me.  Especially after the writers did such contortions to hold off the big reveal to the very end.  I don't doubt that finding out such a thing would be shocking, even upsetting.  But compared to some of the scenarios proposed in last week's comments, it didn't seem all that dramatic.  Mileage may vary, of course.   And yeah, no doubt that Daniel had some disease and Buck was conceived with the hopes of finding a cure. 

Agreed that it was a letdown. I just kept thinking, "That's it?" It seemed very meh in regards to secrets. Maybe the fallout and follow up will be more to it. From what the mom said about her hating hospitals, it feels like there is a large piece missing.

[Gramto6]

20 minutes ago, tvgoddess said:

Same here. He and Chimney were delightful this episode. I'm glad that Chim got to unload his secret, even if it was to Stan the Bomber.

Agreed that it was a letdown. I just kept thinking, "That's it?" It seemed very meh in regards to secrets. Maybe the fallout and follow up will be more to it. From what the mom said about her hating hospitals, it feels like there is a large piece missing.

Yeah, I'm kind of leaning towards Buck was the baby that was born to save his brother and it went wrong.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Put me in the camp of thinking there is more to the story about Buck's and Maddie's dead sibling.  The parents seem to resent Buck. I mean, sure my Kid #1's baby book is a little more tricked out than Kid #2 but still, Kid #2 has one!  Make you wonder about the parents even more, though.  Buck had no clue he had a sibling.  That means there was no evidence in their home that this kid existed all through Buck's childhood and growing up at home. No pictures.  No home movies.  No mention from any other family members.  Who erases a dead child so completely from their lives?

Probably the same kind of parents who don't attend their daughter's wedding because they don't approve, or come to her when she is kidnapped, nearly killed by, and then in turn kills that same abusive husband. By all appearances this was the first time they even talked about it, and then it's so casual, like, oh yeah,  sorry about that thing with Doug. Denial seems to be a default setting here.

They made a point of saying it was too traumatic for them to see their child in the hospital (really mom, your son having life-threatening, possibly career ending injuries was too hard for you?) so it seems pretty obvious that the middle son was ill and Buck was the saviour baby who failed in his purpose.  These are terrible people.  IDGAF what they went through. 

Apart from that it was a good episode. Loved Chim and Albert, and Chim empathizing with bomber guy, but showing no qualms about cold-cocking him to save the day. 

[shapeshifter]

27 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Probably the same kind of parents who don't attend their daughter's wedding because they don't approve, or come to her when she is kidnapped, nearly killed by, and then in turn kills that same abusive husband. By all appearances this was the first time they even talked about it, and then it's so casual, like, oh yeah,  sorry about that thing with Doug. Denial seems to be a default setting here.

They made a point of saying it was too traumatic for them to see their child in the hospital (really mom, your son having life-threatening, possibly career ending injuries was too hard for you?) so it seems pretty obvious that the middle son was ill and Buck was the saviour baby who failed in his purpose.  These are terrible people.  IDGAF what they went through. 

Apart from that it was a good episode. Loved Chim and Albert, and Chim empathizing with bomber guy, but showing no qualms about cold-cocking him to save the day. 

I'm not sure which is worse: The characters of Mom & Dad Buckley, or the agreement to retcon them into the story for some soap opera-y drama.

I agree that the Chim and the Bomber scene was good --probably the best fictional bomber talk down I've ever seen, and that was largely because of the whole My Secret Is Bigger Than Your Secret not-conversation writing and delivery. But I still think they could have had a viable secret without dragging the actual parents onto the set. 

And the bit about Chim's name being "Howard" would have been funny if it didn't involve such sad sack parents. 

BTW, I missed a season. Do we know the origin of Chim's nickname? Sorry if this has already been answered.

Edited February 9, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They made a point of saying it was too traumatic for them to see their child in the hospital (really mom, your son having life-threatening, possibly career ending injuries was too hard for you?) so it seems pretty obvious that the middle son was ill and Buck was the saviour baby who failed in his purpose.  These are terrible people.  IDGAF what they went through. 

Agreed. It sucks that you lost a child, that's obviously very traumatic but taking your grief out on your children for the rest of their lives is definitely worse. Erasing your dead child from your lives completely is ridiculous. I'm stunned that they'd even be able to keep a secret sibling from Buck. Did NOBODY in their inner circle ever spill to Buck? Even accidentally talking about Daniel once? 

I wasn't sure if the show would be able to deliver a decent enough explanation as to why the Buckley parents were the worst but boy, did they deliver. That scene of Buck confronting them was so, so good. They really ARE crap parents. They aren't physically abusive but they were neglectful and definitely caused a lot of emotional trauma as a result of their clear resentment over their children. It sucks that Maddie kept this secret for 28 years, as well. She shouldn't have had to keep it, but I get why she did. 

The Bomber storyline was actually pretty good. I had a good laugh at Chimney unbaring his soul to the bomber, who seemed so into the story. 

May saves the day! I loved that storyline a lot. It was a good way to have Maddie out of the call center but still have a plot there. And Josh as her mentor was great.

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It sucks that Maddie kept this secret for 28 years, as well.

I wish they would clarify all the kids' ages. Somebody earlier mentioned (in earlier spec) that the show said Maddie was 15 years older than buck, but I couldn't find that in any transcripts. Last night the awful mom referred to her as 'over 35', which says to me she's between 35 and 40, or she would have said 'over 40'. In any case I think Buck would be mid-to-late 20's at the most. Even if he's 30, that would make him born in 1991, and that photo was dated 1988. Wouldn't he have at least some memory of another sibling? Is that why Maddie was so thrown by him being in therapy - that these repressed memories might surface? ETA: in re-reading, I see that the dates do lend themselves to the possibility that Buck was only an infant or toddler, depending on how long before the brother's death that photo was taken.

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

BTW, I missed a season. Do we know the origin of Chim's nickname? Sorry if this has already been answered.

No, we don't know the story - and I feel like it's going to be one of those mysteries that last through the run of the show.

Edited February 9, 2021 by gonzosgirrl

[perkie1968]

20 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Did NOBODY in their inner circle ever spill to Buck?

I thought when Buck looked at the photo, he said something like, 'this isn't our house', so I would guess that the parents probably moved after Daniel's death, so no one around them would know of a third child to say anything to Buck.  I'm surprised there was one photo of the dead child in Maddie's belongings.  If the parents erased his existence after his death, that picture would have been destroyed as well. 

I was really worried we were going down the "Maddie is Buck's mother not his sister", so I'm glad that it isn't that.  The irony is that Dad Buckley was played by Gregory Harrison who GH fans will recognize since he's currently playing a guy, who's eldest son may or may not be his youngest son's actual father, since his eldest son slept with his new bride the night before their wedding.  

I'm guessing Daniel got sick and the only way to save him was by having baby Buck and that didn't work, causing Daniel to die of his illness and resentment from the parents that their son died and the new kid didn't "save" him.  

Alfred running away so he didn't have to hear the secret was hilarious.  

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

I'm guessing Daniel got sick and the only way to save him was by having baby Buck and that didn't work, causing Daniel to die of his illness and resentment from the parents that their son died and the new kid didn't "save" him.  

If they want to go even further into soap opera-land, Buck has a different father --probably in hopes of some genetic transplant thing for the sick sibling, but could also be a flame of his mom's --and this would actually fit with the 'rents questioning his going by "Buck," a derivative of Pa Buckley's last name.

[Janie430]

So Maddie brought her parents out to meet with Buck and try and get them to explain themselves, and then she spent two whole dinners not doing anything to facilitate that conversation.  She has apparently never linked her hiding/acceptance of her abuse to the fact that her parents conditioned her to hide unpleasant family issues because it's too hard to deal with.  She's never realized that a keeping a promise made when you were nineteen and under pressure isn't an excuse for lying to your brother when you're 40.  No one is the same person at 40 they were at 20.                                                                                                                                                     

 Ouch, I feel for her, but she needs to be back in therapy dealing with this.  How did it not come up the first time around?  If I were Buck, I'd be pretty angry at her.  She lied to him his whole life.  She would have kept lying to him if he hadn't tried to get mentally healthy.  She would have kept protecting her parents if Buck hadn't found that photo.  She needs to spend some time on the couch exploring her need to protect her parents (armchair psychology, she saw their pain over the loss of Daniel, and therefore wanted to protect them from hurting, even at her expense), and what effect it had on her, and just as importantly, what effect is it going to have on her parenting.  

And to tell you the truth, I think Chimney was in the wrong too.  He knew the secret, and while you can argue it wasn't his secret to reveal, if it were me, I would have said "Buck, you need to talk to Maddie, now.  There's something she needs to tell you, and don't let her stop talking until she tells you.  She's not in danger, but it's about your parents, and it's bad."  

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, Janie430 said:

She's never realized that a keeping a promise made when you were nineteen and under pressure isn't an excuse for lying to your brother when you're 40.  No one is the same person at 40 they were at 20.  

Maddie was actually nine, not nineteen, when she was told to keep that secret. So it makes total sense for her to not tell her brother. She was very young when Daniel died and when Buck was born and when she was told to never talk about Daniel again. 

[preeya]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

BTW, I missed a season. Do we know the origin of Chim's nickname? Sorry if this has already been answered.

As far as I can recall, it was never divulged.

[Empress1]

I know a few people whose legal names are what are conventionally thought of as nicknames, e.g. a Jenny. I found it odd that Chim didn't know that Maddie isn't short for anything.

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Agreed. It sucks that you lost a child, that's obviously very traumatic but taking your grief out on your children for the rest of their lives is definitely worse. Erasing your dead child from your lives completely is ridiculous. I'm stunned that they'd even be able to keep a secret sibling from Buck. Did NOBODY in their inner circle ever spill to Buck? Even accidentally talking about Daniel once? 

I guess they have no other family either - both parents must be only children and their parents all died young.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Empress1

[MrPissyPuppy]

It would have been better if Buck and Maddie's mom was secretly a werewolf news anchor. 

 

[gonzosgirrl]

42 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I know a few people whose legal names are what are conventionally thought of as nicknames, e.g. a Jenny. I found it odd that Chim didn't know that Maddie isn't short for anything.

My name is generally considered a nickname, but it is what is on my birth certificate. I had a teacher that insisted on calling me what she assumed must be my 'proper' name and I hated it (still do). Had to actually show her my bc to make her stop.

I would guess that Chim just assumed Maddie was short for Madelyn (or something) and had no reason to question it up til now. Probably would have when it's time for the baby's birth certificate.

Edited February 9, 2021 by gonzosgirrl

[JeezumCrow]

The more I stew on it, I’m wondering if Buck was conceived with the hopes he would save Daniel’s life, but Daniel died before Buck was even born so there was no trace of him once the new baby arrived. The grief of losing a child combined with continuing to carry a baby once his reason for conception is gone could certainly put the whole family in a weird headspace. 

[anna0852]

Was this 'my sister's keeper' technology around in the early 90's though? How good was prenatal testing when Buck was born?

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, anna0852 said:

Was this 'my sister's keeper' technology around in the early 90's though? How good was prenatal testing when Buck was born?

There's a line in the episode tag for the next one (Buck Begins) that makes me wonder if this spec is accurate. I posted it in the spoiler thread just in case.

[preeya]

4 minutes ago, JeezumCrow said:

The more I stew on it, I’m wondering if Buck was conceived with the hopes he would save Daniel’s life, but Daniel died before Buck was even born so there was no trace of him once the new baby arrived. The grief of losing a child combined with continuing to carry a baby once his reason for conception is gone could certainly put the whole family in a weird headspace. 

There was no indication that Daniel died before Buck was born.

The only mention was that the picture was taken in 1988 before Buck was born.

[rove4]

Count me in with those who found the reveal of the Buckley family secret to be a let down.  Maddie said that their parents weren't always as emotionally distant as they are now.  I'm wondering if the pain and devastation of burying a child caused them to pull back emotionally in fear of ever going through that sort of pain again.  Maybe on some level they reason that if they keep their other two kids at arm's length, it will deaden the pain if something bad were to happen? 

Albert running away from Chimney before he could tell him the secret was hilarious.

That neighborhood lady was a piece of work. 

[tennisgurl]

I am glad that the big Buckley family secret isn't that Maddie is really Bucks mother at least. It looks like the long dead sibling theory was correct, but we still will have to wait until next week to find out what the whole story is. I am guessing that Daniel was sick and they had Buck to try to get the organs he would need to survive, but it didn't work for whatever reason, and Buck and Maddie's parents have always resented Buck for "failing" his brother and are mad that they're stuck with their organ farm kid and not the one they wanted. Is that why they apparently hate hospitals so much that they couldn't be bothered to come visit (or even check in with) their kids after their multiple near death experiences and traumas? It reminds them of their long dead son? Or maybe its something else, like Buck and Daniel were in an accident and Buck survived, or Buck did something as a really little kid that got Daniel killed, and they have never forgiven him? Buck and Maddie's parents might not be physically abusive or more obviously awful, but apparently totally erasing a child who died and making Maddie lie about it and pretend she never even had another brother is a seriously fucked up thing to do, not getting into how it seems like they have totally checked out from being parents, even back when Maddie and Buck were kids, and have never been around at all when Buck and Maddie clearly could have used support. Losing a child is terrible of course, but neglecting your surviving kids is not alright, no matter what the secret circumstances were. Maddie keeps saying that her parents "aren't bad people" but the picture being painted certainly makes them seem pretty shitty. They also seem to make everything about them and how it affects them, saying how they went to therapy to deal with the Maddie and Doug mess while never checking in with Maddie to see how she was doing, the person who was abused by her husband then was kidnapped and almost murdered, or saying how much they "hate hospitals" as an excuse not to see Buck like this was all a big burden on them, and not Buck, the person who had a truck dropped on him and almost died. 

Poor Buck, its just one thing after the next with him. I feel like this is one of those times when a show casts an actor to be mostly comic relief at first, then realize that they're a really strong dramatic actor, so they end up giving their character trauma after trauma after trauma now that they know they are really great at it. Oliver Stark is really great at playing scared/angry/sad so now they keep giving him stuff to use that, and it works really well because he really is great at drama, but it also means that Buck is always having shit happen to him, even on a show where shit is ALWAYS happening to the main characters. 

The neighborhood "murder" was fun, I guessed that Chekhov's garden gnome would come back into play. Of course the queen of Karen's, disgusted by her neighbors wholesome barbeque, would get accidently kill herself while screaming at an adorable corgi. Screw her, she poisoned a dog, karma sucks. I love how the dog owners couldn't even be bothered to pretend to give a shit that she was dead, and the nonchalant way the bread baker acted at being busted for her multiple marriages. That dog was so flipping cute, more episodes should involve cute animals. "No jury in the world would convict you." 

Chimney telling the whole story to the bomber, and the bomber getting invested in the whole story, was hilarious. As were all of Chimneys interactions with Albert, he has become a really fun reoccurring character. 

[Janie430]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Maddie was actually nine, not nineteen, when she was told to keep that secret. So it makes total sense for her to not tell her brother. She was very young when Daniel died and when Buck was born and when she was told to never talk about Daniel again. 

See, that makes less sense to me.  She promised at 9, six years before Buck was born, what?  To never talk about her dead brother again?  Never mention to any future babies that may or not exist that they had a sibling who died before they were born?  I thought it had to be 19 and I misheard it.  

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, Janie430 said:

See, that makes less sense to me.  She promised at 9, six years before Buck was born, what?  To never talk about her dead brother again?  Never mention to any future babies that may or not exist that they had a sibling who died before they were born?  I thought it had to be 19 and I misheard it.  

I'm pretty sure Maddie was nine when Buck was born and/or when Daniel died, not when the photo was taken in 1988. Buck is in his late 20s now, and we know Maddie isn't in her late 40s, so she wasn't 9 in 1988. 

Their parents would have had a couple of years to reiterate to Maddie to not talk about the dead sibling (depending on how young Buck was when Daniel died). And, if it's reiterated enough, she probably DID put it in the back of her mind. It's a little bit abusive to convince your own child to basically forget her own sibling so that her other sibling never found out. Maddie could have felt guilty for breaking her promise to her parents at that age because she didn't want to upset them. There are many reasons why she would have reframed things to never talk about Daniel. 

Also, this show has had a lot of unrealistic plots. Hello, Bobby killing 148 people and getting away with it. Athena never having backup. Chimney surviving with no brain damage from a rod getting shoved through his head. Not to mention a lot of the cases relying on some form of stretching of reality. 

But it's another showcase of how much the Buckley parents suck. They can't give a reason where I'd be on their side. Sure, they were grieving the loss of their son but they hurt their other son, and their daughter, in the process, and that's not right at all.

[iMonrey]

I thought the big secret turned out to be a big nothing burger. Even if it turns out their parents had Buck so he could somehow medically save Daniel, that still doesn't merit the over-sized reactions Chimney and the bomber he told the story to had. They were acting like it was just explosive. No pun intended.

Frankly Maddie and Buck came off very badly to me. Their parents aren't the Manson family murderers they made them out to be. Hell, it's Dee Wallace and Gregory Harrison. No parents are perfect. Maddie and Buck just seemed like a couple of spoiled brats to me.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, MrPissyPuppy said:

It would have been better if Buck and Maddie's mom was secretly a werewolf news anchor. 

Seriously!
😆

[marceline]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Frankly Maddie and Buck came off very badly to me. Their parents aren't the Manson family murderers they made them out to be. Hell, it's Dee Wallace and Gregory Harrison. No parents are perfect. Maddie and Buck just seemed like a couple of spoiled brats to me.

I didn't think of them as brats but I did have a really tough time buying into their viewpoint because so much of their bad behavior was retconned. The parents cut her off when she married Doug? That's something we should've heard about earlier and more than once. They didn't show up when Buck was in the hospital and Maddie was kidnapped and that should've been a bigger deal back during that story. The foundation for thinking of them as neglectful could've been laid in past seasons but obviously this story is a modern creation. That said they did a good job in this episode of showing how alone and isolated Maddie must've been all through her marriage.

Also, Chimney telling everyone Buck's secret was annoying as hell. They tried to play it for laughs but it didn't land for me.

I liked Bobby's conversation with May where he mentioned that his coping skills used to be vodka and percocet. Sometimes I forget that Bobby is in recovery and if there's anyone who understand the feeling of wishing he could've done more to save someone, it's him.

I cracked up at the neighbor who said, "I told her I hoped she'd burn in hell and look, wishes come true." The delivery was perfect.

 

[connieinnc]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

My name is generally considered a nickname, but it is what is on my birth certificate. I had a teacher that insisted on calling me what she assumed must be my 'proper' name and I hated it (still do). Had to actually show her my bc to make her stop.

I would guess that Chim just assumed Maddie was short for Madelyn (or something) and had no reason to question it up til now. Probably would have when it's time for the baby's birth certificate.

Mrs Konkowski? I also have a nickname as my 'official' (BC) name and Mrs K insisted on calling me the 'proper' name (even though the attendance roster showed my name as Connie), Mom laid into her at open house 🙂

[JeezumCrow]

4 hours ago, preeya said:

There was no indication that Daniel died before Buck was born.

The only mention was that the picture was taken in 1988 before Buck was born.

I know. I was just theorizing based on (1) why Buck has no memory of him and (2) why the family removed all trace of him from their lives. Some have theorized Buck was conceived to save Daniel and it failed; I’m proposing that perhaps that was the intent, but it didn’t have the chance to fail because Daniel died before they could try - so Buck wouldn’t even have any trace of an attempt in his medical records.
 

They didn’t definitively say he died after Buck was born, either. I don’t think I’m right, but I wanted to toss my hat in the ring since it’s bouncing around in my subconscious. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by JeezumCrow

[Arkay]

At my table for one, I don't think this is outlandish as many of you do. I never thought it was going to be something as preposterous as Maddie being Buck's mother. This is a plausible thing that could send parents spiraling into grief and deciding the only way to cope was to forget. Of course it's wrong, of course Maddie and Buck needed parents who were caring and involved. But I don't think it's so sinister. Yes, it's awful to have kept this secret from Buck. However, with the mother saying she can't deal with hospitals, and with them apparently not having a baby book for Buck, it looks as though they feared that Buck could die, too, and they were determined to be emotionally detached. This is certainly emotionally damaging for children  but it's not unheard of. I also don't think Buck was conceived in order to provide parts or blood etc. for Daniel. I just think their son died, whether through illness or an accident, and they clammed up and made Maddie do the same. A very cruel outcome but not intended to be so vicious.

I could be very wrong and we shall see. 

Separately, wow has May gotten gorgeous. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I did have a really tough time buying into their viewpoint because so much of their bad behavior was retconned. The parents cut her off when she married Doug? That's something we should've heard about earlier and more than once. They didn't show up when Buck was in the hospital and Maddie was kidnapped and that should've been a bigger deal back during that story. The foundation for thinking of them as neglectful could've been laid in past seasons but obviously this story is a modern creation. 

Yeah, they should maybe not have cast actors I'm predisposed to like as the parents, and perhaps written them a little bit more harshly. They just didn't come across as the cold and distant parents Maddie and Buck seemed to think of them as. They were pretty much from upper middle class suburban parent central casting. Brought presents for the baby, brought Maddie's baby book, then all of sudden Buck is screaming at them that he never felt good enough. WTF. All of this feels very out of the blue. 

[BookWitch]

I think he might have been a replacement child as well. It's just so weird that they erased the other one completely. I guess there were no grandparents to remember him?  I don't remember DWS having such a gap between her front teeth. 

The cases were good. 

[tennisgurl]

I've always thought the Buckley parents were questionable, mainly because so much stuff has happened to Maddie and Buck and there is no indication that their parents have ever checked in with them ever, which struck me as weird even before anyone mentioned them. They seem likable enough, or at least not obviously horrible monsters, but maybe that's the reason Maddie always describes them as "not bad people, just not great parents" or some variation. They are pretty pleasant in general, and aren't even outwardly mean or cruel, just that there was something going on with them that was really damaging to Buck and Maddie somehow. I guess a lot of our opinions on them might be made next week when we find out the actual backstory and what actually went down, because everything seems so vague now. 

[Kleav]

11 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Do we know the origin of Chim's nickname?

I wish I could remember it better, but in a recent episode Chim was climbing up (or down) through a narrow space and he said something like "That's how I got my name, by the way." I would have backed up to watch again if I had the technology.

[CoderLady]

14 minutes ago, Kleav said:

I wish I could remember it better, but in a recent episode Chim was climbing up (or down) through a narrow space and he said something like "That's how I got my name, by the way." I would have backed up to watch again if I had the technology.

I think he was going to try to use that current rescue situation to explain his nickname but he'd already had it for years. The real explanation must be epic.

[Kleav]

36 minutes ago, CoderLady said:

I think he was going to try to use that current rescue situation to explain his nickname but he'd already had it for years.

My impression was that he was referring to a similar situation long ago. He is pretty slim and wiry!

[jabRI]

Sorry, I don't see how Mae saved 1000 lives.  The guy called and gave his name and address.  Was the 'saving' from not hanging up on him when he sounded overly friendly?

[CoyoteBlue]

45 minutes ago, jabRI said:

Sorry, I don't see how Mae saved 1000 lives.  The guy called and gave his name and address.  Was the 'saving' from not hanging up on him when he sounded overly friendly?

She's the one who social-media-stalked him (against protocol) and found out his origin story. They were still trying to track down his most recent jobs.

[Emily Thrace]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah, they should maybe not have cast actors I'm predisposed to like as the parents, and perhaps written them a little bit more harshly. They just didn't come across as the cold and distant parents Maddie and Buck seemed to think of them as. They were pretty much from upper middle class suburban parent central casting. Brought presents for the baby, brought Maddie's baby book, then all of sudden Buck is screaming at them that he never felt good enough. WTF. All of this feels very out of the blue. 

The flippant way they referred to Doug and trying to say they were right a long was insensitive and very obviously about shifting the blame for the rift away fron themselves. It was clear to me that they simply don't listen very well to me at best and are very self involved.  Neither of which make for good parents generally.  Also they lied about there being another sibling in the family for nearly 30 years. I actually like that the Buckley's are fairly normal from the outside, so many shows go to the other extreme. Another show might Bucks parents locked him in a cellar and beat him with rubber hoses or whatever form of depravity is currently trendy.

When Mae mentioned her issues I thought yeah a conversation about guilt with Bobby might end up with him taking her to church. I was pleasantly surprised in how it actually went down. I do wonder though after this episode if we might get more on Bobby's family beyond his wife and kids. Generally you don't pick up on vodka and Percocet as a coping mechanism on your own. 

I have always wondered if Chimney was a racially based nickname and that is why Howard is so cagey about it. Chimney sounds like chin lee or ching chong choi or any of the other racist gibberish Asians get chanted at them. Given what we know about his former colleagues it wouldn't surprise me.

[kicotan]

13 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Last night the awful mom referred to her as 'over 35', which says to me she's between 35 and 40, or she would have said 'over 40'. In any case I think Buck would be mid-to-late 20's at the most.

So, Maddie could be 38...(JLH is 41 IRL) born in 1983.  The picture was from 1988...she’d have been 5.  Daniel could have been born in 1984.  Making him 4 in the picture.  Buck wasn’t born yet, so let’s say Buck is 27...(Oliver Stark is 29 IRL) born in 1994.

Plenty of time for a “savior sibling” scenario although not heard of much in 1994.

7 hours ago, Arkay said:

Yes, it's awful to have kept this secret from Buck. However, with the mother saying she can't deal with hospitals, and with them apparently not having a baby book for Buck, it looks as though they feared that Buck could die, too, and they were determined to be emotionally detached. This is certainly emotionally damaging for children  but it's not unheard of.

Indeed.  My parents kept secrets and told lies, had my oldest brother keep them, too(he was 15 when I was born) from my other siblings.  They had their reasons and I’ve been lucky enough to get therapy for my trust issues over finding out the truth.  Good on Evan/Buck for getting help.

[CoyoteBlue]

15 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Last night the awful mom referred to her as 'over 35', which says to me she's between 35 and 40, or she would have said 'over 40'.

For pregnant women, "over 35" is the magic number for being automatically considered high risk, regardless of your test results. I would literally stamp 'normal' lab results with (essentially) "Normal values, but OLD, so we can't promise anything". So the fact that Mom used that phrase was expected regardless of Maddie's actual age.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

No one has mentioned how good Gregory Harrison still looks?!? (Maddie's dad) He is 70!

Quote

When Mae mentioned her issues I thought yeah a conversation about guilt with Bobby might end up with him taking her to church. I was pleasantly surprised in how it actually went down. 

Loved this conversation. How great to have a loving step-parent and for him to have a lovely young woman as a step-child. She is gorgeous, by the way. 

Cul-de-sac murder was fun. More of that, please. Who playing the neighbor with the gun? I've seen her before somewhere, and she has a distinctive voice.

[jabRI]

13 hours ago, CoyoteBlue said:

14 hours ago, jabRI said:

Sorry, I don't see how Mae saved 1000 lives.  The guy called and gave his name and address.  Was the 'saving' from not hanging up on him when he sounded overly friendly?

She's the one who social-media-stalked him (against protocol) and found out his origin story. They were still trying to track down his most recent jobs.

thanks, I missed that part!