S32.E11: Run On Your Tippy Toes

[Sammie]

I don't have a problem with the alliance.  I think the final 3 are by far the 3 best teams in the race so I'm looking forward to the finale.  I also don't hate the boyfriends, yeah they're arrogant but they aren't cheaters or cab stealers, they're playing the game hard and want to win.  That's what it's all about!  As for De Angelo, he was at the final task for 2 hours lying on a bench and could have thought about what he was going to say a the mat.  He could have had some class and couldn't even find it in himself to say he enjoyed racing with Gary.  He said he was a solid partner.  That's it.  They were one of my favourites through the race, I didn't even mind when he called the blonde sisters cockroaches because he meant they never die, he didn't use it as an insulting term like many people think he did.  But the behaviour at the mat was childish.

[Eolivet]

I agree with others who understood why Gary and D'Angelo took the penalty. And give the other three teams the satisfaction of watching them stagger to the mat in last place? Nah. Opt out of the whole corrupted task.

I also think the way they were cutting back and forth between the mat exchange and their confessionals was confusing. For example, I didn't think Gary said, "The race sucked," to Phil, but in a confessional. I could be wrong, though -- it seemed the camera angles changed and you very pointedly did not see Phil at certain times.

Hopefully, Will and James' decision to align with the two most consistent teams, one who is faster and by far better athletes than them, and one with far more patience and attention to detail than them, over the inconsistent, older, slower team, bites them in the rear end.

[TVbitch]

When they got to the last challenge, and there was still almost half the show left, and Phil said what it what was, I thought, ooh, maybe this is gonna be epic and FINALLY spark this season up. ....wah wah wah 

[Netfoot]

10 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

I agree with others who understood why Gary and D'Angelo took the penalty. And give the other three teams the satisfaction of watching them stagger to the mat in last place? Nah.

100 Meter Olympic finals. The gun fires and eight runners shoot out of the blocks. But by the 50 meter mark, it is obvious that Usain Bolt has got this. So, should the other racers just stop and wander off the track?

[Stardancer Supreme]

7 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I wonder if DeAngelo's reaction at the mat wasn't just because of this leg but some residual feelings from the previous leg, when he messed up the tile-making task by not paying sufficient attention to the instructions.  Maybe he was still beating himself up about it, or Gary had been giving him an earful off-camera.  You would think they'd have learned that lesson and been more careful reading clues afterward.

That's just it; none of the teams learned that lesson for this entire season.  I fully expect at least one of the Final 3 to screw up the finale in much the same fashion AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HELP EACH OTHER.

[Fukui San]

I think the most fitting way for this season to end is for another team to win when Hung reflexively helps them by giving them information they would not have gotten by themselves. Hung will give Chee 90 seconds to be disappointed in her.

[Lukeysboat]

There is a podcast called Cinnamon & Sugar on Podbean featuring De and Gary. (The episode is “The Exit.”) It gives quite a bit of insight into the final task, how it went down for them, and why DeAngelo was so frustrated with the race. (One of the reasons was the inability to actually spend time visiting each country and instead being shut up in a hotel room.)

And yes, DeAngelo is still pissed off. 

[sinycalone]

7 minutes ago, Lukeysboat said:

There is a podcast called Cinnamon & Sugar on Podbean featuring De and Gary. (The episode is “The Exit.”) It gives quite a bit of insight into the final task, how it went down for them, and why DeAngelo was so frustrated with the race. (One of the reasons was the inability to actually spend time visiting each country and instead being shut up in a hotel room.)

And yes, DeAngelo is still pissed off. 

If you will recall the two Indy race car drivers a few years ago....Alexander Rossi had the same issue with the race.  He hated being cooped up in hotel rooms for as many as 24 hours in one stretch.  That part of the race was extremely disappointing and frustrating for him.  (His partner was not quite as upset).  He loved the race overall...but would never do it again because he (like D) wanted to see more of the countries they were visiting, not spend endless hours in isolation.

[jemklb]

44 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

I think the most fitting way for this season to end is for another team to win when Hung reflexively helps them by giving them information they would not have gotten by themselves. Hung will give Chee 90 seconds to be disappointed in her.

Seriously.

I agree. She was so frustrating.

[toodywoody]

13 hours ago, chaifan said:

Yes, yes, yes!  A million times yes!  This is the main problem with this season - equalizing practically every leg by spoon fed flights takes away so much of the RACE part of The Amazing Race.  I mentioned in an earlier thread - there are ways of designing the legs so there can never be a 24 hour gap.  And I understand the world we live in now may mean every flight is preplanned and everyone is on the same flight.  But there are ways to maintain the finishing time differences and put the RACE back in The Amazing Race.

I don't mind a little help from other racers but to me it seemed Will and Whine benefitted in a lot of legs, they were helped by Gary once, with the horn, Hung gave them the answer, and the Beards told the one about the place setting. I know there was probably more.

I remember one TAR 1 that most of the teams were friendly and helped each other but not giving so much out that you practically helping another team win the race. 

TAR needs to fix the bunching,  needs to make it where maybe everything not reset every leg and make for more separation of teams. Or make it where each team had different songs to guess. I don't know, but as many people that are pissed about the alliance, and Phil bringing it up several times, maybe means they have taken notice. 

[buttersister]

Quote

All in all, I see why TPTB sat on this season for so long and I wish they had never unearthed it. Don’t know if I’ll watch next week.

Amen. I'm planning on recording it because New Orleans. And no show for the foreseeable future. And my ability to only watch the parts I want (New Orleans and the meltdown of the loser boyz, if there's any justice).

[lisette]

What a terrible season! But, after all, it IS 2020! lol

[Dobian]

14 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I also think the way they were cutting back and forth between the mat exchange and their confessionals was confusing. For example, I didn't think Gary DeAngelo said, "The race sucked," to Phil, but in a confessional. I could be wrong, though -- it seemed the camera angles changed and you very pointedly did not see Phil at certain times.

He didn't say the race sucked to Phil, but he did say to Phil that it was a waste of his time and he didn't get anything out of the experience, .  And when Phil asked him if he really meant that he said yeah, and that he could have paid for his own around the world trip because he's rich.  It was an insulting and disrespectful thing to say to Phil.  The guy is a typical entitled, privileged professional athlete who has no appreciation for the fact that he got to do something thousands of people dream of doing, that being a former professional athlete along with his friend gave them a huge edge in being cast, and that unlike him, most people watching the show aren't rich and don;t have the option of planning their own trip around the world.  He's a jackass.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Dobian

[EllenB]

9 minutes ago, Dobian said:

He didn't say the race sucked to Phil, but he did say to Phil that it was a waste of his time and he didn't get anything out of the experience, .  And when Phil asked him if he really meant that he said yeah, and that he could have paid for his own around the world trip because he's rich.  It was an insulting and disrespectful thing to say to Phil.  The guy is a typical entitled, privileged professional athlete who has no appreciation for the fact that he got to do something thousands of people dream of doing, that being a former professional athlete along with his friend gave them a huge edge in being cast, and that unlike him, most people watching the show aren't rich and don;t have the option of planning their own trip around the world.  He's a jackass.

Wasn't that DeAngelo, not Gary?

[Vermicious Knid]

DeAngelo was most pissed the Beard Bros broke their super secret alliance. Something I'm not sure they mentioned in any episode, DeAngelo actually wasn't familiar with the Race and didn't watch the show. He got talked into it by Gary. He claims all the Racers are great friends now and have gotten together a few times.

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, Vermicious Knid said:

DeAngelo was most pissed the Beard Bros broke their super secret alliance. Something I'm not sure they mentioned in any episode, DeAngelo actually wasn't familiar with the Race and didn't watch the show. He got talked into it by Gary. He claims all the Racers are great friends now and have gotten together a few times.

That interview also says that Gary blazed through the Roadblock in France (where the music was) so fast that it didn't even register for him that there was music playing there.  That's why they kept failing the one spot on the cases.

Also, they clarify DeAngelo's real problem with TAR; not the Racing part, but the part where the EatSleepMingle used to be.  De wanted to get out and see the places they were in after finishing a Leg, but they were confined to their hotels until the start of the next Leg.  That's why he said he would have had a better time if he'd spent his own money to make the same trip; he would have been able to experience the locations more.

[Browncoat]

Because of the alliance, we don't know that the top three teams are actually the best racers.  We don't know whether or not they could have gotten this far without help from each other.  How many times would it have taken them rappelling to have figured out sauerkraut on their own?  How long would it have taken to make that cello without being told how?  Who else would have had to go back for their groceries if they hadn't been alerted about that?  In any other race, the blondes probably would have gone much farther, but no one was helping them.

I'd almost rather see the family edition again than this season.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:59 PM, Hera said:

If I had been Hung, my heart would have dropped at the word "sprint". It's a good thing actual running was less a factor than "sprint" would imply, because while she seems pretty fit and with good stamina, she was also up against three all-male teams, who were all younger than she is (though very slightly in the case of Gary/DeAngelo), and two of those teams were made up of professional athletes.

On top of that, she was significantly shorter than all the remaining men which means that even if they were running at the same pace (feet hitting the ground at the same time), their strides are all longer than hers so it would take her longer to run the same distance.

18 hours ago, Fukui San said:

Yes, I agree with the notion that Gary and D'Angelo got the order part correct and were making a different mistake than the other teams, since they got three right and just couldn't ID the last flag. They did not know how close they were since the challenge never gave them an answer except for "Yes" or "No". They could have had the judge say the number of cases that were correct. which would have given teams information with which they could solve things logically. 

I prefer when the judges just say yes or no because then it's up to the racers to figure out what they're doing wrong. Earlier this season when they had to build that roof structure, the judge told the teams that didn't get it right on the first try exactly what was wrong (as opposed to the truck decorating challenge where they had to figure out that they hadn't connected the horn).

17 hours ago, Tango64 said:

I've liked Gary & DeAngelo despite their part in the alliance, and initially I was sympathetic to DeAngelo's bitterness at the end. But then I remembered he offered to work with the others at that task, so he would have been pefectly happy if some other team had been the one screwed over by the others. Hoisted on your own petard there, buddy.

 

17 hours ago, bankerchick said:

While it sounds like D'Angelo was upset about the alliance and teams not sharing info with him, one of the things I disliked most about this season was the whipped cream pie episode, where D'Angelo specifically told everyone there except the nerd team about what would happen when they entered the tent with the pie.  He even made a comment about one of the teams in the alliance not being there yet so he couldn't share the info with them.  So, alliances are fine as long as you are an integral part I guess.

Yup, you both hit the nail on the head. He was all for alliances that he was a part of. But as soon as there was an alliance that he wasn't a part of, suddenly he got bitter and angry.

13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

So assuming TAR survives (which I think it will...despite this season having been a clunker), I would like Gary to have a place whenever they do their next All-Star season. He was smart, funny, strong and into it. D'Angelo, as much as I might like him, was not a particularly good racer. The orchestra task was one of the few that he was sort of OK on, and then he was actively bad on such tasks as the tiles last week and at least a couple others but I'm blanking on. I honestly think that if Gary had picked an average NFL team mate or even random person from his personal life, they would have done better. 

I agree. Although there were a few challenges where he didn't do great (the steel drum one comes to mind), he was generally a pretty competent racer. He read the clue and usually got the tasks done (and when they were difficult for him to do, he just kept plugging away).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, Lukeysboat said:

There is a podcast called Cinnamon & Sugar on Podbean featuring De and Gary. (The episode is “The Exit.”) It gives quite a bit of insight into the final task, how it went down for them, and why DeAngelo was so frustrated with the race. (One of the reasons was the inability to actually spend time visiting each country and instead being shut up in a hotel room.)

And yes, DeAngelo is still pissed off. 

While I understand wanting to go out and explore the locations more, I would be a lot more sympathetic if this weren't the THIRTY SECOND SEASON OF THE SHOW. It's pretty common knowledge that the racers are not allowed to go off gallivanting around wherever they want after each task is completed. Even for people who haven't watched every season, it's pretty googleable information. To me, his complaint is about on par with voluntarily going somewhere hot on vacation and then complaining about the heat. You knew before you went (and yes, it was your responsibility to find out this information before agreeing to go) so I can't feel that bad for you.

[Slakkie]

I am so angry I will not even watch the final episode on Hulu.  The alliance thing literally ruined the only bright spot on TV this year.  I was so loving seeing all these different places but this sucked.

[chaifan]

I'm not sure what DeAngelo was going for in his interviews.  The combination of "I'm rich so I can go to these places anytime I want" (paraphrasing here) and "boo hoo, I was stuck in my hotel room and couldn't see the cities we were in" make all of his other comments so much worse.  The vast majority of racers will never have a chance to go back to these places, or if so, it's a rare vacation for them.  He comes across very privileged, the stereotypical rich "I got mine" sports star. 

Geez, just man up and admit you were woefully ignorant about how the race worked, and that ignorance is your own damn fault.  Be gracious and say "I really enjoyed the racing parts, but the down time was hard for me.  I'm glad to have come away with fun race experiences and good friends.  _____ was beautiful and I hope to go back there someday."  Is it really that hard?

Congrats, DeAngelo.  You've made the #2 spot in my list of rich, privileged whiners for 2020. 

[bunnyface]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Congrats, DeAngelo.  You've made the #2 spot in my list of rich, privileged whiners for 2020. 

He lost again?  He's not going to like that.  

[Bad Example]

23 hours ago, blackwing said:

The fact that Will and James gleefully said "it's going to be so fun seeing Gary and DeAngelo run in heels" was just spiteful... like they were saying "they are big manly men and they're going to be all ewwww about wearing women's shoes".  

Yep, that made me hate Will and James even more than I already do.  "Stereotype, stereotype, stereotype, Gary & DeAngelo will feel so emasculated HEEHEEHEEE."  

Gary and DeAngelo:  High heels?  Okay.  Don't give a crap, let's get on with the task.

 

And speaking of G & D, I thought taking the penalty was the strategy that made the most sense.  At that point they had no idea how much longer this thing was going to take, all they knew was that the other three were sticking together.  It was plausible it could have taken the other teams more than two hours to finish since there was no way of knowing if anyone was actually making any progress.  It had to have seemed more likely at that point than the two of them just happening upon the right combination.

Although I really like the "stick like glue" idea someone upthread proposed.





 

[lilysmom]

Like all reality shows, we know how much the editing affects our opinions of the participants. They take hours and hours of tapes down to a 45 minute episode, so most of what goes on, we never see. Adding to that, TAR includes air travel, language difficulties, taxi drivers, different cultures, and the always popular JET LAG. I guess my point is, we probably shouldn't be too quick to judge ANY of the contestants' real personalities by what we see on the screen.

[preeya]

1 hour ago, lilysmom said:

we probably shouldn't be too quick to judge ANY of the contestants' real personalities by what we see on the screen.

Except when they (the boys) are blatantly mean spirited with an agenda to "get" another team eliminated for no strategic reason (i.e. Blonds and G&D).

Edited December 11, 2020 by preeya

[blackwing]

22 hours ago, bankerchick said:

While it sounds like D'Angelo was upset about the alliance and teams not sharing info with him, one of the things I disliked most about this season was the whipped cream pie episode, where D'Angelo specifically told everyone there except the nerd team about what would happen when they entered the tent with the pie.  He even made a comment about one of the teams in the alliance not being there yet so he couldn't share the info with them.  So, alliances are fine as long as you are an integral part I guess.

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yup, you both hit the nail on the head. He was all for alliances that he was a part of. But as soon as there was an alliance that he wasn't a part of, suddenly he got bitter and angry.

I don't think that was necessarily hypocritical.  Will and James spearheaded the creation of this "Mine Five" alliance to the point where they all called it the "Mine Five", as in, there are five teams in this alliance.  Then when they get to the Cambodia leg, based on the mentions onscreen, it seems the five teams all had an agreement that the "Mine Five" was no more and that it was every team for themselves.  Unbeknownst to Gary and De, there was actually a secret suballiance of three teams that has been actively trying to get them out for two legs now.  They felt betrayed and deceived.  I think it was a natural reaction.

In Survivor, alliances and secret suballiances happen all the time.  But it's a natural part of that game, so everyone is always aware of the possibility of being backstabbed, and backstabbing happens often.  Alliances in TAR are very rare, the game just isn't played that way.  So I think it was shocking for Gary and DeAngelo to learn that the other teams were actively working together against them.

Not exactly sure when the suballiance of three was created... was it from the start?  I remember when Gary and DeAngelo were struggling at the watermelons, neither Madison/Riley nor Hung/Chee gave them any advice.  Then an episode or so later we heard Riley saying "Gary and DeAngelo just take take take" and then I think Will and James echoed that in the next episode or so.  I am trying to figure out all the times that they were "take take take".  I can't even remember the times when they asked for help but provided none in return.  In fact, I can only think of examples when they helped others... DeAngelo helping with the cello in Paraguay, DeAngelo telling Hung about the letters in Germany, Gary telling James about the pillars in India.

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

While I understand wanting to go out and explore the locations more, I would be a lot more sympathetic if this weren't the THIRTY SECOND SEASON OF THE SHOW. It's pretty common knowledge that the racers are not allowed to go off gallivanting around wherever they want after each task is completed. Even for people who haven't watched every season, it's pretty googleable information. To me, his complaint is about on par with voluntarily going somewhere hot on vacation and then complaining about the heat. You knew before you went (and yes, it was your responsibility to find out this information before agreeing to go) so I can't feel that bad for you.

I've been with the show since the beginning, and this was not common knowledge to me.  It was obvious they did away with Eat/Sleep/Mingle at some point because for some reason they didn't want the racers mingling together and talking (still not sure why).  But I didn't know they were locked in their hotel rooms.  What's the reasoning behind not allowing them to run to the local equivalent of Duane Reade to get some snacks and a Mountain Dew?  I know that the internetz now has spoilers in abundance about the race locations and finish order, but would a local really see a random person walking alone with no cameraman  going to the corner store and truly think that this person was on the Race?

What are the logistics of how they get fed then?  Are all meals just provided for free now?  It's obvious that money management is no longer an issue, but I know in the past, teams had to pay for their food out of their allotted money for the leg.  Under the current system, what if someone wants a bottle of water or a Gatorade?  Is there a production assistant that goes and gets that?  Room service?

I don't know if I can blame DeAngelo for not wanting to be stuck in a hotel room for 24 hours sometimes.  What do they do with their time?  If I were on the Race I know I would want to pack a book or a kindle to read during downtime but I am not even sure if this is allowed.  Wondering if their belongings are inspected before they start the race to make sure there's nothing in there that could be considered to be helpful.

18 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

So assuming TAR survives (which I think it will...despite this season having been a clunker), I would like Gary to have a place whenever they do their next All-Star season. He was smart, funny, strong and into it. D'Angelo, as much as I might like him, was not a particularly good racer. The orchestra task was one of the few that he was sort of OK on, and then he was actively bad on such tasks as the tiles last week and at least a couple others but I'm blanking on. I honestly think that if Gary had picked an average NFL team mate or even random person from his personal life, they would have done better. 

I think Gary is one of my favourite racers in recent Race history.  I love his attitude, he's a nice and friendly guy and he was always so cheerful and optimistic about everything.  Would definitely love to see him back, and I do think he could get DeAngelo to agree to return.  I think DeAngelo could be convinced to do it, if nothing else because they seem to be best friends and because De could use a bit of a reputation improvement at this point.

[Dobian]

12 hours ago, toodywoody said:

TAR needs to fix the bunching,  needs to make it where maybe everything not reset every leg and make for more separation of teams. Or make it where each team had different songs to guess. I don't know, but as many people that are pissed about the alliance, and Phil bringing it up several times, maybe means they have taken notice. 

They need fewer yields and fewer u-turns.  I don't want half the legs in the race decided by that.  The whole yield/u-turn thing was out of control this season.  Not only does it encourage alliances, but it ruins legs where you might have had an exciting finish with a trailing team making a comeback, but no, they have to backtrack and do another task or wait around for 30 minutes.

[Lamb18]

12 hours ago, toodywoody said:

I don't mind a little help from other racers but to me it seemed Will and Whine benefitted in a lot of legs, they were helped by Gary once, with the horn, Hung gave them the answer, and the Beards told the one about the place setting. I know there was probably more.

Gary also helped James with how to place the costumed men by the correct pillar Roadblock.

[watch2much]

4 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Because of the alliance, we don't know that the top three teams are actually the best racers.  We don't know whether or not they could have gotten this far without help from each other.  How many times would it have taken them rappelling to have figured out sauerkraut on their own?  How long would it have taken to make that cello without being told how?  Who else would have had to go back for their groceries if they hadn't been alerted about that?  In any other race, the blondes probably would have gone much farther, but no one was helping them.

I'd almost rather see the family edition again than this season.

Excellent points.  none of the alliance teams were stressed as those of past seasons or the other teams not in the alliance.  that's one of the elements of the show that I enjoy....seeing how the relationship stands up to the stress.  I used to watch with my son and point out healthy relationships where despite the stress, they still treated each other well.  and I admit a guilty pleasure watching some team implode.  I would have liked to see some of the earlier eliminated teams given more of a chance rather than be systematically picked off.

I think the idea of the NFL team being "takers" maybe another one of Will and James' devious moves to bind the 3 teams together.  they may have been emphasizing it to the other teams.  because, as others, said, there were times that the NFL team contributed.  I'm at a loss for the times Will and James helped...

[sinycalone]

Quote

I've been with the show since the beginning, and this was not common knowledge to me.  It was obvious they did away with Eat/Sleep/Mingle at some point because for some reason they didn't want the racers mingling together and talking (still not sure why).  But I didn't know they were locked in their hotel rooms.  What's the reasoning behind not allowing them to run to the local equivalent of Duane Reade to get some snacks and a Mountain Dew?  I know that the internetz now has spoilers in abundance about the race locations and finish order, but would a local really see a random person walking alone with no cameraman  going to the corner store and truly think that this person was on the Race?

Until I read that post-race interview with Alexander Rossi....I was not aware they were isolated in their hotel rooms, either.  I thought Alexander was exaggerating...but apparently not.  I knew they were not permitted to go back for lost or forgotten articles after a leg was finished...even if the items were close by.  I was also aware the eat, sleep mingle aspect had been eliminated (I believe after season 12).  However, I thought they might be permitted to go out as long as they alerted production and were  within a certain distance from their hotel (maybe as suggested for a Mountain Dew and sandwich).  I think the only times racers actually intermingle during their down time is on long flights/bus rides/boat trips...and when forced to sleep outside a museum or shop due to HOOs.

Gary has said he would do the race again for charity...and De might agree to it under those circumstances.  If they had a "run for charity" race I would hope they would include athletes, writers, musicians, etc....but not pack it with actors. 

[chaifan]

I don't think racers are truly locked in their rooms during pit stops.  I know I've seen clips of racers "off hours" out and about in the places they're in.  And I know I've heard racers mention doing stuff with other teams while at pit stops.  It may depend on the location.  As far as I can remember one clip was definitely in a remote location - not a major European city.   I'm sure they're not totally free to be normal tourists. 

[sinycalone]

According to Rossi, he and his teammate were literally not permitted to leave their rooms during quite a few pit stops.   I would imagine, when they were in remote areas, the restrictions would be less stringent. 

[Netfoot]

54 minutes ago, blackwing said:

So I think it was shocking for Gary and DeAngelo to learn that the other teams were actively working together against them.

They were happy with the race for nine legs, when there were four other teams to bail them out of trouble and drag them along to the bathmat by the scruff of their necks. As soon as they realized they had to run the race on their own and avoid elimination by means of their own abilities... they were done. Not beaten. Just quit.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

What are the logistics of how they get fed then?  Are all meals just provided for free now?  It's obvious that money management is no longer an issue, but I know in the past, teams had to pay for their food out of their allotted money for the leg.

I believe they had to pay for anything they acquired while running the leg, but at the 12-hour "eat, sleep and mingle" they must have been provided with food. I know the EAMs are much different now, eliminating the "mingle" I assume, to eliminate the formation of friendships and foster animosity. But surely the teams must still be fed? They are locked away for 12 hours and they aren't allowed to wander around the city looking for a doner kebab, so...

24 minutes ago, watch2much said:

I would have liked to see some of the earlier eliminated teams given more of a chance rather than be systematically picked off.

Agreed. The "pagonging" of non-alliance teams was very much akin to bullying, and as far as I'm concerned, that tactic is not acceptable, and should not be a significant factor in The AmazinG Race.

9 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

According to Rossi, he and his teammate were literally not permitted to leave their rooms during quite a few pit stops.

They used to mingle in common areas of whatever locale the pitstop was hosted at. But to prevent the mingling, I guess they have to be completely restricted to their rooms.

[Roccos Brother]

In my honest opinion, the final task was really not that hard once the racers actually READ and followed the clue. Then it becomes very easy to do a process of elimination. So the fact that Gary and DeAngelo didn't think to reread the clue before taking a two hour penalty tells me they were always a weak team and only got to where they were from being helped by others. I understand they felt discouraged and beaten down at that point, but it would have been so much more honorable if they had just finished the task instead of being the only team to give up this season, especially if they wanted to make the point that they deserved to be there - let alone in the final three.

Also, I find it ironic that everyone was mad at Aparna for being bitter and sore (AT DeAngelo, no less) last week, and then this week we have DeAngelo take that soreness to a whole other level. At least Eswar and Aparna actually finished their leg.

Excited to see NOLA next week - a city I've been wanting to visit forever!

Edited December 11, 2020 by Roccos Brother

[blackwing]

42 minutes ago, watch2much said:

I think the idea of the NFL team being "takers" maybe another one of Will and James' devious moves to bind the 3 teams together.  they may have been emphasizing it to the other teams.  because, as others, said, there were times that the NFL team contributed.  I'm at a loss for the times Will and James helped...

Yes, I tend to agree, I can't really even identify situations in which they were "take take take".  Was it after the cyber task in India where Madison and Riley got two tuk tuks at once and DeAngelo tried to get one of them that Riley made the comment about "take take take"?  As I previously mentioned, I cannot think of specific times where they actually got help.  Hung gave DeAngelo the sauerkraut answer but DeAngelo contributed by telling her to pay attention to the letters.  Will and James seem to be the team that have gotten way more help than others and I'm not sure what kind of help they gave out (printing a useless map in Paraguay for appearances doesn't count).

13 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

They were happy with the race for nine legs, when there were four other teams to bail them out of trouble and drag them along to the bathmat by the scruff of their necks. As soon as they realized they had to run the race on their own and avoid elimination by means of their own abilities... they were done. Not beaten. Just quit.

I know you are critical of their decision to take the penalty, and mileage can vary there of course... but when did they get bailed out of trouble and dragged along?  The only times I can remember where they were really in trouble and were nearly eliminated was the watermelon pyramid task and DeAngelo and the tiles, and they didn't get any help from anybody.

 

If it were a 12 hour pitstop, I can understand why being confined to a hotel room isn't necessarily that bad... after all, you are probably sleeping for at least 6 hours.  If you check in to the hotel at 8 pm and are due to leave at 8 am, I wouldn't mind a few hours alone in the hotel room away from the race and the others.  But being confined to a room for 24 hours seems a bit tough.

[dgpolo]

56 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I don't think racers are truly locked in their rooms during pit stops.  I know I've seen clips of racers "off hours" out and about in the places they're in.  And I know I've heard racers mention doing stuff with other teams while at pit stops.  It may depend on the location.  As far as I can remember one clip was definitely in a remote location - not a major European city.   I'm sure they're not totally free to be normal tourists. 

 

47 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

According to Rossi, he and his teammate were literally not permitted to leave their rooms during quite a few pit stops.   I would imagine, when they were in remote areas, the restrictions would be less stringent. 

Pretty sure Colin and Christie were 'out and about' at one location. Colin got a cut on the head? I think it was, that did not happen during the leg and was later explained that it happened while he was out 'touristing'.

[hendersonrocks]

Quote

Also, I find it ironic that everyone was mad at Aparna for being bitter and sore (AT DeAngelo, no less) last week, and then this week we have DeAngelo take that soreness to a whole other level. At least Eswar and Aparna actually finished their leg.

I think these are quite different circumstances. Aparna was pissed that DeAngelo and Gary used an actual, legit mechanism of the race against them. DeAngelo was pissed that other racers worked together to keep them out by sharing answers with each other, *after* he thought the alliance they all agreed to (and yes, benefitted from) had ended. He and Gary asked other teams to work with them at the challenge and they said no, and then proceeded to work with each other against Gary and DeAngelo.

It was personal *and* outside the existing strategy mechanisms of the race. The Aparna and Eswar move was neither.

[scowl]

I loved the alliance because I knew at some point a team would get screwed by it. It has always been a good strategy this season shows just how well it can work. I'm glad that TAR has a real social element between the teams because that is something that has been missing.

[Fukui San]

1 hour ago, sinycalone said:

Until I read that post-race interview with Alexander Rossi....I was not aware they were isolated in their hotel rooms, either.  I thought Alexander was exaggerating...but apparently not.  I knew they were not permitted to go back for lost or forgotten articles after a leg was finished...even if the items were close by.  I was also aware the eat, sleep mingle aspect had been eliminated (I believe after season 12).  However, I thought they might be permitted to go out as long as they alerted production and were  within a certain distance from their hotel (maybe as suggested for a Mountain Dew and sandwich).  I think the only times racers actually intermingle during their down time is on long flights/bus rides/boat trips...and when forced to sleep outside a museum or shop due to HOOs.

Gary has said he would do the race again for charity...and De might agree to it under those circumstances.  If they had a "run for charity" race I would hope they would include athletes, writers, musicians, etc....but not pack it with actors. 

I didn't know it was that restrictive either. I think it was changed in midrace one year, I think about the 10-15th edition. I remember there was too much drama offscreen, with one team accusing another team of stealing sports bras drying on a rail or something like that. (Found the episode: Season 13). From that point on, no more Eat/Sleep/Mingle time together.

Prior to that I can remember instances of teams able to actually see the place they were in. I remember in Season 6 Kris & Jon hanging out in Africa swimming with locals at a beach during a clip show. TAR would be significantly less fun if you were confined to the hotel at all hours.

[blackwing]

1 minute ago, scowl said:

I loved the alliance because I knew at some point a team would get screwed by it. It has always been a good strategy this season shows just how well it can work. I'm glad that TAR has a real social element between the teams because that is something that has been missing.

There's always been a social element to some extent... you have to be friendly enough with other teams and not make enemies so other teams won't use the Yield/U Turn against you.  But there's never been blatant alliance forming and strategising against other teams.  If I wanted to see strategy and backstabbing, I can get that from Survivor or Big Brother.  This alliance really detracted from the game this year.  It's not interesting watching somebody figure something out and tell everyone else the answer.  Watching teams make mistakes and seeing who is going to be strong/smart enough to figure things out on their own is a big part of this show.

1 minute ago, Fukui San said:

I didn't know it was that restrictive either. I think it was changed in midrace one year, I think about the 10-15th edition. I remember there was too much drama offscreen, with one team accusing another team of stealing sports bras drying on a rail or something like that. (Found the episode: Season 13). From that point on, no more Eat/Sleep/Mingle time together.

Prior to that I can remember instances of teams able to actually see the place they were in. I remember in Season 6 Kris & Jon hanging out in Africa swimming with locals at a beach during a clip show. TAR would be significantly less fun if you were confined to the hotel at all hours.

Hahaha yes.  Starr screaming "WHO THREW MY SPORTS BRA OFF THE BALCONY" is one of the examples of things that we used to see happen during Eat/Sleep/Mingle that I always cite as one of the things I miss about this show.  I remember on TWoP we had a robust discussion about why she had to call it a "sports" bra as opposed to just "bra" or "clothes" or "stuff".  The way she put the stress on "sports bra" was too funny.  I didn't realise however that that incident was the deathknell of ESM.  Sad to miss these kinds of interactions.

[Roccos Brother]

45 minutes ago, hendersonrocks said:

I think these are quite different circumstances. Aparna was pissed that DeAngelo and Gary used an actual, legit mechanism of the race against them. DeAngelo was pissed that other racers worked together to keep them out by sharing answers with each other, *after* he thought the alliance they all agreed to (and yes, benefitted from) had ended. He and Gary asked other teams to work with them at the challenge and they said no, and then proceeded to work with each other against Gary and DeAngelo.

It was personal *and* outside the existing strategy mechanisms of the race. The Aparna and Eswar move was neither.

Point taken, but my comment was more in reference to his extremely ungrateful exit comments to Phil at the mat. I don't understand how there was near unanimous criticism towards Aparna last week, yet everyone is so quick to cut DeAngelo some slack and give him the benefit of the doubt, even empathizing with him (what??? he reminded us that he's a rich athlete - he'll be fine). If you ask me, the two aren't even in the same ballpark. Aparna was mad at another team that was her direct competitor and DID cause her to lose (justified or not). DeAngelo basically said screw the entire race itself and he said it to the host. I don't recall a more classless or ungracious exit in the entire history of TAR actually. Even the worst teams were usually thankful for the opportunity to be on the race, if nothing else. Don't blame the race for the actions of the individual teams.

Also, I still think that the NFL team only demonstrated they were a weak team to begin with, and would not have made it as far without the help of the same alliance that they supposedly felt screwed them over. So regardless, I don't think their anger is justified.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Roccos Brother

[lilysmom]

2 hours ago, preeya said:

Except when they (the boys) are blatantly mean spirited with an agenda to "get" another team eliminated for no strategic reason (i.e. Blonds and G&D).

Can't disagree. My post was actually referring to DeAngelo and Gary I wanted them to win. Felt they caught De at a bad moment. 

But yes, I think the boyfriends are pretty mean spirited and I hope they come in third. It's one thing when you U turn someone in a game related issue, but to do it just because...not pretty. Or you talk someone else into doing your dirty work for you just because... I think they even used the phrase "getting blood on their hands." I hate when they use that on Big Brother and this wasn't Big Brother.

[dgpolo]

8 minutes ago, hendersonrocks said:

I think these are quite different circumstances. Aparna was pissed that DeAngelo and Gary used an actual, legit mechanism of the race against them. DeAngelo was pissed that other racers worked together to keep them out by sharing answers with each other, *after* he thought the alliance they all agreed to (and yes, benefitted from) had ended. He and Gary asked other teams to work with them at the challenge and they said no, and then proceeded to work with each other against Gary and DeAngelo.

It was personal *and* outside the existing strategy mechanisms of the race. The Aparna and Eswar move was neither.

They used an actual legit 'tool' of the race. Alliances have always been a part of the race and have been used by many teams. So I agree it was 'personal' but not outside existing strategies of the race. Outside using a 'tool' of the race but alliances have always been a legit part of strategy.

The alliance was ended. A new one just popped up that left D&G out. They were all working individually until they realized that it was more difficult than they thought. Then they made a new alliance with the 3 teams. The beards -could- have allied with D&G but they decided not to. That was their decision to make.

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

But there's never been blatant alliance forming and strategising against other teams. 

Of course there has. One I mentioned before where they ganged up against a team of alpha male twins, one instance that resulted in the first -burning- of the U turn board. There was even some strategizing in the Cha's season

Spoiler

to keep them off the ferry.

the B-list Vanck & Ashton and I think one against the Cowboys.

[lilysmom]

1 hour ago, watch2much said:

Excellent points.  none of the alliance teams were stressed as those of past seasons or the other teams not in the alliance.  that's one of the elements of the show that I enjoy....seeing how the relationship stands up to the stress.  I used to watch with my son and point out healthy relationships where despite the stress, they still treated each other well.  and I admit a guilty pleasure watching some team implode.  I would have liked to see some of the earlier eliminated teams given more of a chance rather than be systematically picked off.

I think the idea of the NFL team being "takers" maybe another one of Will and James' devious moves to bind the 3 teams together.  they may have been emphasizing it to the other teams.  because, as others, said, there were times that the NFL team contributed.  I'm at a loss for the times Will and James helped...

Well, they did print out that totally useless city map at the beginning!

[blackwing]

20 minutes ago, Roccos Brother said:

Also, I still think that the NFL team only demonstrated they were a weak team to begin with, and would not have made it as far without the help of the same alliance that they supposedly felt screwed them over. So regardless, I don't think their anger is justified.

I don't think they were a weak team at all, although DeAngelo faltered a few times and was definitely the weaker of the two.  Also, without the alliance, I don't think any of the teams but Riley and Madison would have figured out the puzzle.  If all of the teams had worked independently or had been forced to work independently by the rules/setup, I could easily have seen a situation where Riley and Madison figured it out and the other three teams took the penalty.

15 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

They used an actual legit 'tool' of the race. Alliances have always been a part of the race and have been used by many teams. So I agree it was 'personal' but not outside existing strategies of the race. Outside using a 'tool' of the race but alliances have always been a legit part of strategy.

The alliance was ended. A new one just popped up that left D&G out. They were all working individually until they realized that it was more difficult than they thought. Then they made a new alliance with the 3 teams. The beards -could- have allied with D&G but they decided not to. That was their decision to make.

Of course there has. One I mentioned before where they ganged up against a team of alpha male twins, one instance that resulted in the first -burning- of the U turn board. There was even some strategizing in the Cha's season

  Reveal spoiler

to keep them off the ferry.

the B-list Vanck & Ashton and I think one against the Cowboys.

I agree that there have been alliances so to speak in the past, but there has never been so blatant an alliance as this one.  I'm talking about a Big Brother style alliance where they actually even gave themselves a name and they were actively conspiring to try and eliminate specific teams.  Leo and Alana were the target, then the Blondes, then Eswar and Aparna, then Gary and DeAngelo.  I cannot remember if the Cho Brothers "Back Pack" was named by themselves or by TWoP, but the purpose of that alliance was clearly to make sure nobody got left behind.  It wasn't to try an eliminate others.

I also disagree that "a new one just popped up".  That alliance of three existed long before the recent episode.  It wasn't just like they all of a sudden decided to make "a new alliance with the 3 teams".  Each one of those teams had been talking for several episodes now about how their core alliance was really those three.  Their goal was always to be the final three.  And their goal had been to get Gary and DeAngelo out for the past two legs.  I'm quite certain that if any of the three teams had gotten the answer randomly, prior to writing down all the combinations and dividing up the work, that they would have given the answer to the other two.

If TPTB decide they didn't like this, and I would hope they didn't, I would hope that in a future Race edition, a version of this task would have each team listening to their own individual selection of songs (via iPad or headphones or whatever) and having to find their own unique answer.  And no asking other teams for help to listen to their songs or identifying them.

[BeatLA24]

9 hours ago, SVNBob said:

That interview also says that Gary blazed through the Roadblock in France (where the music was) so fast that it didn't even register for him that there was music playing there.  That's why they kept failing the one spot on the cases.

Also, they clarify DeAngelo's real problem with TAR; not the Racing part, but the part where the EatSleepMingle used to be.  De wanted to get out and see the places they were in after finishing a Leg, but they were confined to their hotels until the start of the next Leg.  That's why he said he would have had a better time if he'd spent his own money to make the same trip; he would have been able to experience the locations more.

 

1 hour ago, Roccos Brother said:

In my honest opinion, the final task was really not that hard once the racers actually READ and followed the clue. Then it becomes very easy to do a process of elimination. So the fact that Gary and DeAngelo didn't think to reread the clue before taking a two hour penalty tells me they were always a weak team and only got to where they were from being helped by others. I understand they felt discouraged and beaten down at that point, but it would have been so much more honorable if they had just finished the task instead of being the only team to give up this season, especially if they wanted to make the point that they deserved to be there - let alone in the final three.

Also, I find it ironic that everyone was mad at Aparna for being bitter and sore (AT DeAngelo, no less) last week, and then this week we have DeAngelo take that soreness to a whole other level. At least Eswar and Aparna actually finished their leg.

Excited to see NOLA next week - a city I've been wanting to visit forever!

Like was said earlier, Gary and DeAngelo never could place the music for France. Gary said he was in the art gallery road block for five minutes, so he barely heard the music at all, while DeAngelo was outside and didn't hear it, as well.

[sinycalone]

I really think the ESM aspect had a more positive than negative effect on the racers.  One of my favorite seasons - #12 - included a lot of downtime fun for the teams :  swimming in the Adriatic, eating together in various cities, etc.  Yet, that was a very competitive season.  Whether they stopped the ESM because of one incident (sports bra - ha, ha I remember that) or because they wanted to minimize any personal interaction at all....it was a mistake.  If the alternative was to isolate the teams wherever possible....where is the access to one of the major goals cited by most teams before the race:  encountering new cultures, and learning more about them?

 

 

 

 

 

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, scowl said:

I loved the alliance because I knew at some point a team would get screwed by it. It has always been a good strategy this season shows just how well it can work. I'm glad that TAR has a real social element between the teams because that is something that has been missing.

Nah, I want The Amazing Race not The Amazing Survivor.  For me it's about the adventure and thrill of racing, I don't need a social game.  When I used to watch Usain Bolt run, it was to see him make a new world record in the 100, not win because he social gamed one of his competitors to trip up his closest rival at the start.

[Door County Cherry]

7 hours ago, chaifan said:

I'm not sure what DeAngelo was going for in his interviews.  The combination of "I'm rich so I can go to these places anytime I want" (paraphrasing here) and "boo hoo, I was stuck in my hotel room and couldn't see the cities we were in" make all of his other comments so much worse.  The vast majority of racers will never have a chance to go back to these places, or if so, it's a rare vacation for them. 

Not only that, for most of these racers, the winning amount could be life changing for them.  I know not all professional athletes make a ton of money in their careers even if their salaries seem huge so normally I wouldn't begrudge them a space in the race but if DeAngelo thinks he has enough money then I kind of wish he weren't on the race.  

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I agree that there have been alliances so to speak in the past, but there has never been so blatant an alliance as this one.  I'm talking about a Big Brother style alliance where they actually even gave themselves a name and they were actively conspiring to try and eliminate specific teams. 

I know others have said this but I do agree with the idea that the reason things seemed so blatant was in large part because it was a successful alliance.  Look at the secret alliance that was formed between the volleyball players and the football players, we never heard about it until after the football players were eliminated.  We might have heard about it more had the volleyball players not stepped out of the alliance.  

[Cotypubby]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It's pretty common knowledge that the racers are not allowed to go off gallivanting around wherever they want after each task is completed.

😶... I didn't know that. I remember older seasons where I thought they were shown going out to restaurants after the leg was over. I knew they had changed it to no longer be the strict 12 hour time frame, but I had no idea everyone was sequestered in a hotel room as soon as the leg was over.