S17.E04: You’ll Never Walk Alone

[Bort]

Owen faces a medical diagnosis that challenges more than he imagined. Koracick begins to go stir crazy. Maggie gets a not-so-subtle glimpse into Winston's background.

Airdate: 3 December 2020

[LexieLily]

I was screaming at Teddy for only talking to Tom through the door and then leaving the food and walking away and was convinced that when the camera went to Tom's side of the door we were going to see him bleeding from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He's alone and isolated from the hospital, doesn't have any friends aside from Amelia, and most of the crew is either apathetic towards him or hates him. I'm glad that he's "only" sick and the previews show that he is at least getting help. 

Maggie, RUN. When Winston was talking to her at the end about how his dad was always so calm but he had a hidden temper I thought that is what she has to look forward to in the future. Winston and Maggie are basically only in a Zoom-phone-text-video relationship, and not even for that long. Why would he think it would be appropriate to invite her to a four (later five) person family dinner?

[Madding crowd]

This one made me cry. George *sobbing*. Good episode but very depressing. I wonder if Tom will die. 

[anna0852]

George!!!

And they even got James and Chandra into a scene with him!

[KaveDweller]

So that female Asian doctor upset with Hunt, is she a known character we have seen before? They were all interacting with her like she was someone we should know and I don't remember her at all. I also didn't catch her name.

It was really nice to see George.

[funnygirl]

Georgie!!! After all these years, it's so nice to see hime again. TR Knight looks great!

Bailey, Meredith, Richard, and George together at the end was wonderful. Old Grey's > New Grey's. 

After the nonsense with Teddy and Tom, I don't really care what happens to Tom (or Teddy, for that matter). 

I loathe Deloser. 

Where's Hayes?

Link is a gem. 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by funnygirl

[PepSinger]

Link is the new McDreamy as far as I'm concerned.

I cannot express how happy it made me to see T.R. Knight again. His scenes with Meredith were some of the best scenes of the past few seasons. It also made me really, REALLY miss Old Grey's. The dialogue is perfect, and it honestly made me tear up when he said he's seen Meredith's kids since he "checks up" on them. That was oddly comforting to me. I also thought it was funny that they addressed why he aged, lol.

Who wrote this episode? This episode was noticeably better than some of the other dreck we've seen. Hell, I even thought the storyline about the Asian patient was well done. It felt natural. 

22 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

They were all interacting with her like she was someone we should know and I don't remember her at all. I also didn't catch her name.

They've done this so many times that I just roll with it at this point.

Edited December 4, 2020 by PepSinger

[TheOtherOne]

28 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Who wrote this episode? This episode was noticeably better than some of the other dreck we've seen.

 

 

According to this interview, Krista Vernoff wrote most of the George scenes, but the last one, and the rest of the episode, was written by Julie Wong.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

So that female Asian doctor upset with Hunt, is she a known character we have seen before? They were all interacting with her like she was someone we should know and I don't remember her at all. I also didn't catch her name.

It was really nice to see George.

I'm rewatching old seasons, and that's basically how they introduce a lot of characters.  Callie, for example, was a resident with Bailey all along, we just didn't see her until halfway through season 2 - but all the characters acted like she'd been their colleague for years.  Same with introducing Arizona; I'm fairly certain she was "there all along" too.

1 hour ago, funnygirl said:

I loathe Deloser. 

May I ask why?  He barely said 4 words this episode.  I think he may have been in 2 scenes total. 

 

I was bored.  But for seeing George again, which was great, I was really bored.  I don't care about Maggie and her zoom-boyfriend at all.  Linc and Amelia were ok, but I really hope they don't make Amelia spiral again, that would just be too much.  Teddy? Zzz... Will a near death experience finally give Koracik a soul?  And don't get me started on a Jo and Jackson pairing.  Ugh.  

[KaveDweller]

3 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm rewatching old seasons, and that's basically how they introduce a lot of characters.  Callie, for example, was a resident with Bailey all along, we just didn't see her until halfway through season 2 - but all the characters acted like she'd been their colleague for years.  Same with introducing Arizona; I'm fairly certain she was "there all along" too.

Yeah, I guess that's true, I just wasn't sure if I missed something. I did like her.

Most of the long-term characters still on the show have done things to annoy me over the years and it gets hard to keep liking them. New characters help.

[Daisy]

1: I've said over and over, one of the biggest mistakes this show has ever done was to kill off George. I firmly believe this episode showed why.

2: Jo. you do not need sex. You need to put yourself together. 

3: Jackson - you don't need sex. you need to learn to be ALONE (alone = no sex, dude)

4: I want a Link in my life. 

5: I .... don't think Owen was racist, and I honestly believe that this whole "this is actually higher in asian people" could have just been handled.... nicer? or something. Like if it had been Bailey who had missed it would the whole "well pft. racist!!!" overtones been thrown? No. like that whole thing just bugged me. it was a learning moment to be sure, and I am actually glad Owen wants to address that but it just kinda bugged me it went all "well you treat everyone the same way you threat white people. SO FIX YO SELF!" 

6: does anyone on this show not know what social distancing is? like heck. even in our house we stay far apart. all these people are still up in their business. 

[PepSinger]

1 minute ago, Daisy said:

1: I've said over and over, one of the biggest mistakes this show has ever done was to kill off George. I firmly believe this episode showed why.

Totally agree. I had the same thought.

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

Maggie, RUN. When Winston was talking to her at the end about how his dad was always so calm but he had a hidden temper I thought that is what she has to look forward to in the future. Winston and Maggie are basically only in a Zoom-phone-text-video relationship, and not even for that long. Why would he think it would be appropriate to invite her to a four (later five) person family dinner?

 

so... when is it a good time to show someone that you are serious about to your family? 

(i know a lot of people who the majority of their relationship was email/text/video before they met and got married and are very happy. to be fair i don't know how long they are in a relationship because God knows where we are in Grey time). but Winston wanted her to meet his grandmother and celebrate her birthday.. Why isn't that appropriate?

[statsgirl]

13 minutes ago, Daisy said:

5: I .... don't think Owen was racist, and I honestly believe that this whole "this is actually higher in asian people" could have just been handled.... nicer? or something. Like if it had been Bailey who had missed it would the whole "well pft. racist!!!" overtones been thrown? No. like that whole thing just bugged me. it was a learning moment to be sure, and I am actually glad Owen wants to address that but it just kinda bugged me it went all "well you treat everyone the same way you threat white people. SO FIX YO SELF!"

It really was awful. Instead of taking it as racism, Tseng and Kim (why is he still around?) should have given Owen some journal articles on racial differences in various diagnoses. It's not like Owen refused to treat the guy because he assumed the guy was drunk because he was indigenous, something that continues to happen all too frequently here. Owen wasn't aware of the research. Educate, don't attack.

And instead of preaching, Bailey could hold an inservice on ethnic differences in diagnosis like my workplace does. She supposed to be the Chief after all.

Four weeks off work is hard ( especially if you don't have insurance) but it's not the end of the world.

ETA: Winston has known Maggie for a few years and they are in a relationship now. If there was no Covid and Maggie was in the same city, he probably would have invited her to dinner in person.

Edited December 4, 2020 by statsgirl

[chocolatine]

Just no to having Meredith in any kind of the medical trial. I still can't forgive her for ruining Derek's Alzheimer's trial all those years ago. Also, assuming that whoever runs that COVID trial is more professional than Meredith, it has to be randomized double-blind, so there's a 50% chance Meredith is not getting the experimental drug.

It was great to see George again. Bailey sitting next to him at the end reminded me of "O'Malley, stop looking at my vajayjay!" Good times.

17 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Kim (why is he still around?)

I was wondering that too. Didn't he take a job with an NFL team last season (and unceremoniously dump Schmidt in the process)? The NFL is still playing through the pandemic, so he should still have that job.

Edited December 4, 2020 by chocolatine

[t7686]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

5: I .... don't think Owen was racist, and I honestly believe that this whole "this is actually higher in asian people" could have just been handled.... nicer? or something. Like if it had been Bailey who had missed it would the whole "well pft. racist!!!" overtones been thrown? No. like that whole thing just bugged me. it was a learning moment to be sure, and I am actually glad Owen wants to address that but it just kinda bugged me it went all "well you treat everyone the same way you threat white people. SO FIX YO SELF!" 

6: does anyone on this show not know what social distancing is? like heck. even in our house we stay far apart. all these people are still up in their business. 

Yeah, they went about it in an awkward way. I think they were TRYING to do a whole it's better to educate Owen on racial differences in various diagnoses so that he knows to be better for his patients in the future instead of tiptoeing around around him because they don't want to hurt his feelings or make him feel like an evil racist etc. thing. I appreciate the attempt but it just came off as super clunky. Also icky that they made Bailey explain it to him which negated the whole point because they regulated her to the "magical Negro" trope.  The whole storyline seemed like the writers were trying to make a good point but turned into a poorly executed attack and inauthentically prechy.

 

George though? That was everything. The writing was great for those scenes and reminded me why he was my favorite character back in the day and is why I used to love this show! T.K. looks great and I loved that he mentioned his mom and Meredith got to tell him how much she meant to him. Closure 🙂 

Edited December 4, 2020 by t7686

[Racj82]

I didn't think it would happen because it seemed like Meredith was only interacting with the dead on the beach but if they are going to have Richard and Bailey with her I want to see a damn OG fab five together. Throw some money at Sandra, make nice with Heigl and figure out a way to get Justin back one last time. I'll be the happiest dude in the world.

[misgabi13]

I scared the cat I screamed so loudly when I saw it was George!

Loved the ending with Richard and Bailey also on the beach.

7 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I was screaming at Teddy for only talking to Tom through the door and then leaving the food and walking away

I can't believe a doctor, knowing the guy had Covid didn't at least demand to see him and hang around until she did!  Talk about lack of duty of care!

 

[asiasrasia]

43 minutes ago, misgabi13 said:

I scared the cat I screamed so loudly when I saw it was George!

Loved the ending with Richard and Bailey also on the beach.

I can't believe a doctor, knowing the guy had Covid didn't at least demand to see him and hang around until she did!  Talk about lack of duty of care!

 

TBH he was asymphtomatic from what she knew and she had every reson to think that he just don't want to see her. 

[DEL901]

45 minutes ago, misgabi13 said:

I scared the cat I screamed so loudly when I saw it was George!

Loved the ending with Richard and Bailey also on the beach.

I can't believe a doctor, knowing the guy had Covid didn't at least demand to see him and hang around until she did!  Talk about lack of duty of care!

 

I think someone has to die and it will be Koracick and Teddy will spiral.  

[readster]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

I think someone has to die and it will be Koracick and Teddy will spiral.  

Make sense if it's Koracick, his life hasn't started to turn to shit enough. I mean, that is grounds for more pain and reality smacking him. For Teddy? What next? She cheated on her boyfriends back in high school and medical school? Just to show she can't stop cheating.

[Avabelle]

Glad to see that they revisited Jo/Alex, I’m liking the lightness of them. Also that she keeps his ego in check. 

[Quark]

It was nice to see George again.

I am no fan of Owen, but I don't see what he did was racist. Definitely ignorant though. 

Everyone on this show is so immature. They're all just obsessed with sex!

[transitfan]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Just no to having Meredith in any kind of the medical trial. I still can't forgive her for ruining Derek's Alzheimer's trial all those years ago. Also, assuming that whoever runs that COVID trial is more professional than Meredith, it has to be randomized double-blind, so there's a 50% chance Meredith is not getting the experimental drug.

It was great to see George again. Bailey sitting next to him at the end reminded me of "O'Malley, stop looking at my vajayjay!" Good times.

I was wondering that too. Didn't he take a job with an NFL team last season (and unceremoniously dump Schmidt in the process)? The NFL is still playing through the pandemic, so he should still have that job.

Was Kim's job with the Seahawks (NFL) or the Mariners (MLB)?  I can't remember.  Maybe I'm thinking Mariners because Linc worked for them before coming to Grey/Sloan.

 

 

[dmc]

Love seeing George again.

Owen's misdiagnosis is unfortunate but isn't the point of working with people of other races and ethnicities that you educate each other so you can be better doctors going forward.  I am also not sure why the first doctor who had to leave the room and couldn't express the same thing to Owen.  All she needed to say is Asian patients are 10 times more likely so in the future you might do a scan immediately.  I don't think he would have heard he's a racist, he would have just heard now I have more information about the Asian community to be a better doctor.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by dmc

[funnygirl]

The PC messaging on the show has become so heavy-handed and, because it's not exactly well-executed (acted), it comes off as a PSA informercial. 

Amelia does not deserve Link. But she sure is lucky to have him.

I don't understand, with a hospital full of aMaZIng surgeons, how Deloser ends up being 1 of 2 doctors on The Sun's case. He's a brand new attending fresh off of a bipolar manic depressive episode and we don't even know what his specialty is. This is the best they could do?Shoehorning him in wherever convenient for "cool points" is one of many reasons why I just can't with the character anymore.  

Maggie and Winston are cute but the FaceTime dating has reached the point of scene-chewing. 

The COVID plot is getting tiresome. Probably because it's not getting any better in real life (in the US), and Grey's is all COVID all the time where they're checking off boxes of quarantine/pandemic things that have entered our zeitgeist this year beyond dealing with patients infected: the FaceTime, Bailey's parents in assisted living (and from the previews for next week, how those individuals are affected), baking sourdough (a throw-away line from one of the residents). Are there no other medical maladies that they can work in in-between? Emergencies haven't stopped just because of the pandemic. I know the 'rona is easy fodder for storytelling especially for a show in it's 17th season, but viewers also deserve entertainment and an escape. It's why I love the beach moments so much - aside from seeing the OGs - because it's a break from it all. I'd gladly take an hour of  the beach and the next special guest over the rest of it. 

[Good Queen Jane]

Was I hearing things or did Linc and Amelia refer to Bailey Sheppard as she? Bailey is a boy, unless they are being gender fluid now.

[readster]

20 minutes ago, dmc said:

Love seeing George again.

Owen's misdiagnosis is unfortunate but isn't the point of working with people of other races and ethnicities that you educate each other so you can be better doctors going forward.  I am also not sure why the first doctor who had to leave the room and couldn't express the same thing to Owen.  All she needed to say is Asian patients are 10 times more likely so in the future you might do a scan immediately.  I don't think he would have heard he's a racist, he would have just heard now I have more information about the Asian community to be a better doctor.

 

I remember years ago on ER when there was a patient who was misdiagnosed by Luka because he was unaware of a type of infection that hits black/latino pops more commonly due to living situations. Peter tears into Luka who keeps going: "I have never seen that and I was unaware of this, why are you thinking other wise?" Pretty much Peter was: "This is a black man and you should know better." It was put down quickly as a race thing and honestly, that's what happened with Owen here. It was based on ignorance on the situation. Kim and the other doctor were: "You should have known better dumbass you are just racist on Asian people!" 

[dmc]

5 minutes ago, readster said:

I remember years ago on ER when there was a patient who was misdiagnosed by Luka because he was unaware of a type of infection that hits black/latino pops more commonly due to living situations. Peter tears into Luka who keeps going: "I have never seen that and I was unaware of this, why are you thinking other wise?" Pretty much Peter was: "This is a black man and you should know better." It was put down quickly as a race thing and honestly, that's what happened with Owen here. It was based on ignorance on the situation. Kim and the other doctor were: "You should have known better dumbass you are just racist on Asian people!" 

I feel it would be racist if Owen was aware this was an issue and just kept not giving Asian people proper scans.  Especially after her diagnosis got her the opportunity of scrubbing in, I feel it was completely appropriate to be like hey this is prevalent in Asian communities and you need to be aware.  I am a minority but that doesn't mean I know everything about other minority groups.  Her male coworker whose name I cannot remember speaking for her is also crazy, she can do it.  She's a doctor too

Edited December 4, 2020 by dmc

[UnoAgain]

27 minutes ago, dmc said:

Her male coworker whose name I cannot remember speaking for her is also crazy, she can do it.  She's a doctor too

He did it so she didn't have to.. She's lower on the totem pole... Also he was already frustrated... Even tho he took it in stride it was obvious that patient in the beginning of the episode was freaked out at having an asian doctor... Those  types  of microagressions have a cumulative effect... Add that to the pandemic and the fact that owen was most so damn unaware of something that seemingly all the non-white doctors picked up on.. Had him blow up a bit.. Racial ignorance is frustrating... Tip-toeing around ppl because you don't wanna get into a " I'm not a racist/ are you saying I'm racist etc" conversation is tiring... If you remember that was the 1st thing Kim said to Tsei... That if she brings it up.. Be ready because.. I'm sure hia experience is.. As is mine and many other minorities... You start asking some folks to examine their racial blindspots and it devloves into defense real quick. 

[LittlePeas3]

So excited to have George back, I wonder if there are more beach meetings next week?  Maybe Meredith will see Koracick?  That character had so much potential, they just painted him into a corner pairing him with a pregnant Teddy. 

I too, loved the 4 of them sitting on the log at the end.  I was a bit miffed at the sitting on the wet sand, leaning up against the rocks, especially if the water and the sand isn't "real", but just the dynamic between Meredith and George was brilliant, it was like going back and watching the first 4 seasons with the original cast.  They gelled, but I guess it had a lot to do with them all being at the same place in life, out of university, starting internships then residences.  Now, as we are 17 seasons on, even if it isn't 17 years IRL, we have characters at all different places, we've got the interns, the residents, the fellows, etc, and people are having babies, "unemotional" sex (totally not a great pairing in my eyes) and that original dynamic is missing.  Maybe because there isn't an 'evil spawn' who is hot to look at, but has the softer side underneath?  No totally driven Cristina, who finds a soulmate in Meredith, no George, who holds everyone together and the ever optimistic Izzy.  And Bailey, no-nonsense, I don't want to feel for you, I am your resident, who used to make me laugh out loud with her quips back at the interns.  *sigh* I need to watch the first 3 or so seasons again, before Izzy got cancer and George died. Random ramblings over until I think of other things later 🙂 

[Lady Calypso]

George! I loved seeing his return to the show. The scenes with Meredith and George, as well as the end scene with Richard and Bailey, was a real highlight of the episode.

With regards to the Asian patient storyline, I do get what they were going for and, in theory, Nico and the Asian resident weren't wrong. But the writing for those scenes was clunky and the acting from Alex Landi was not strong enough that the message didn't have the impact that it should have. The issue was that Owen, as an experienced doctor, should be educated enough to know the statistics of illnesses and diagnoses in non-white patients. He's been at the job for so long that he should know the statistics, but he's still privileged enough that he doesn't need to think about that. The story was supposed to be more about the implicit biases that white people have, especially in terms of medical illnesses. They have to be thinking of the common misdiagnoses that doctors make so it was supposed to be an eye opener for Owen. 

However, again, the acting and writing didn't handle the message very well. The only way it worked for me was how it confirmed that Owen CAN be a great character in medical centered stories. Owen IS a pretty great doctor. If they can avoid him ever having another romantic relationship, then I can tolerate him on the show.

I was almost content with how they were finally giving Nico a story outside of Schmitt but he didn't handle it well and the episode ended with him getting to go back to Schmitt's place to have sex and not giving any reason WHY he should take him back. Schmitt made a good point in how their relationship hasn't changed and is still toxic and Nico just dismissed it by using COVID as a reason why they are changed. No, Nico, COVID doesn't mean your shitty ass personality has suddenly changed to respecting your sex buddy.

The Amelia/Link story was pretty good. I appreciate them talking about the different ways they deal with tough situations. I enjoyed hearing more about Link's past.

Maggie/Winston ARE cute but now I fear for Winston's drama with his parental issues. Be careful, Maggie! 

I get that Teddy thought that Tom didn't want to see her but he's literally sick. Make sure he's fine before just taking off! Contrived drama, woohoo. The Tom/Helm scenes weren't bad. It was a nice way to give Helm SOMETHING to do outside of obsessing over Meredith or listening to Schmitt bitch about his love life. 

Jo/Jackson...isn't half bad for me. I get they WILL be getting into a relationship at some point but they kind of work for me. And Jackson admitted that he needed to actually take some time to be single!

 

[taanja]

13 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I was screaming at Teddy for only talking to Tom through the door and then leaving the food and walking away and was convinced that when the camera went to Tom's side of the door we were going to see him bleeding from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He's alone and isolated from the hospital, doesn't have any friends aside from Amelia, and most of the crew is either apathetic towards him or hates him. I'm glad that he's "only" sick and the previews show that he is at least getting help. 

Maggie, RUN. When Winston was talking to her at the end about how his dad was always so calm but he had a hidden temper I thought that is what she has to look forward to in the future. Winston and Maggie are basically only in a Zoom-phone-text-video relationship, and not even for that long. Why would he think it would be appropriate to invite her to a four (later five) person family dinner?

Beware the fury of a patient man.

and .. GEORGE!

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, funnygirl said:

I don't understand, with a hospital full of aMaZIng surgeons, how Deloser ends up being 1 of 2 doctors on The Sun's case. He's a brand new attending fresh off of a bipolar manic depressive episode and we don't even know what his specialty is. This is the best they could do?Shoehorning him in wherever convenient for "cool points" is one of many reasons why I just can't with the character anymore.  

I think you just answered your own question right there - he's fresh off of a manic depressive episode and hasn't confirmed a specialty:  therefore, he's not ready to go back to surgery.  He can still work though, so put him on the COVID team.  It makes perfect sense to me and I don't see it as shoehorning at all.  It actually tosses him to the background where apparently most viewers think he should be?  I guess some people are never happy. ::shrug::

[Lovecat]

13 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Georgie!!! After all these years, it's so nice to see hime again. TR Knight looks great!

I knew I'd come here and find a chorus of "GEORGE!!!!!!" ❤️  Not gonna lie, I cried a little bit.  

12 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I cannot express how happy it made me to see T.R. Knight again. His scenes with Meredith were some of the best scenes of the past few seasons. It also made me really, REALLY miss Old Grey's. The dialogue is perfect, and it honestly made me tear up when he said he's seen Meredith's kids since he "checks up" on them. That was oddly comforting to me. I also thought it was funny that they addressed why he aged, lol.

I was *delighted* they did this!  While Patrick Dempsey certainly has aged in the few years he's been off the show, it's easier to overlook because we know Derek hasn't been gone all that long.  George has been gone for over a decade.  TR's still got a lot of boyishness to his features, but he's not the puppy he was when he was playing George, so I'm really glad they put that conversation in.  And all of the parts about how he watches over Mer's kids, and his mom...oh, that just killed me.  I like to think my dearly departed are keeping an eye on me in some way.  Again:  GEORGE!!!!!! ❤️ 

13 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

So that female Asian doctor upset with Hunt, is she a known character we have seen before? They were all interacting with her like she was someone we should know and I don't remember her at all. I also didn't catch her name.

She's one of the new residents.  Light blue scrubs, and she was introduced last week.  I believe her last name is Song.

8 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I didn't think it would happen because it seemed like Meredith was only interacting with the dead on the beach but if they are going to have Richard and Bailey with her I want to see a damn OG fab five together. Throw some money at Sandra, make nice with Heigl and figure out a way to get Justin back one last time. I'll be the happiest dude in the world.

To continue the conceit of Meredith being stuck in the in-between (she's seeing those that have gone, plus those that are taking care of her), I think Cristina, Izzy, and Alex would have to visit Mer in the hospital, but yeah, that would be sweet.

5 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I think someone has to die and it will be Koracick and Teddy will spiral.  

Oh, he's a goner, I'm convinced of it.  

I know Helm isn't popular around these parts, but I did love her line tonight:  Are you...planning something evil?!??

[dmc]

1 hour ago, UnoAgain said:

He did it so she didn't have to.. She's lower on the totem pole... Also he was already frustrated... Even tho he took it in stride it was obvious that patient in the beginning of the episode was freaked out at having an asian doctor... Those  types  of microagressions have a cumulative effect... Add that to the pandemic and the fact that owen was most so damn unaware of something that seemingly all the non-white doctors picked up on.. Had him blow up a bit.. Racial ignorance is frustrating... Tip-toeing around ppl because you don't wanna get into a " I'm not a racist/ are you saying I'm racist etc" conversation is tiring... If you remember that was the 1st thing Kim said to Tsei... That if she brings it up.. Be ready because.. I'm sure hia experience is.. As is mine and many other minorities... You start asking some folks to examine their racial blindspots and it devloves into defense real quick. 

I am not sure men speaking up so you don't have to in the workplace is helpful to women.  In addition, his asking her to leave the room in the manner her did was unprofessional and derogatory. She's a doctor and she needs to be comfortable speaking to people even people higher on the totem pole.  Especially since in my opinion she would have handled it better.  No one knows how Hunt would have reacted when she brought it up because he wasn't given an opportunity and it turns out he reacted concerned and eager to do better.  I think the idea that he would make the leap because he's more ignorant in healthcare in regards to the Asian community that she's calling him a racist is a large one.   I wouldn't have made that leap at all.  It's possible the male doctor's past experiences are at play here as well as in he has experienced micro aggressions and assumed Owen's reactions based on other's.   But in my opinion, he doesn't speak well to Schmidt so maybe that's just him.  

[marceline]

4 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I think someone has to die and it will be Koracick and Teddy will spiral.  

Yeah, somebody's got to go and Koracick has no point. The weird thing is that they've made him so unlikable no one will care. Usually TV shows do the opposite. I'm not looking forward to Teddy's histrionics when he goes.

[Daisy]

Speaking of Tom....I wish i could say I can not believe that people applauded what Jackson did. It was rude and it was childish but this is a hospital of rude and childish people.  I'm sorry. There is someone sick with Covid, isolation drives most people batty, like. just put up with it for a few minutes. Heck. even put him on mute so you can get through the meeting and then un mute him. but just... flipping him over so the call dropped? and everyone applauding that? 

good gravy. 

[UnoAgain]

41 minutes ago, dmc said:

I am not sure men speaking up so you don't have to in the workplace is helpful to women

I guess the intersectionality of the situation made it even more complex.. As I read the scene.. She seemed ready to pop off.. He sensed it.. And removed a junior from the situation.. Owen had been very complimentary to her for her work before that and her going off on him.. With the possibility of him ( owen)  reading it as being called racist was within the realm of possibility at least in Dr. Kim's eyes... I feel I'd have done something pretty similar honestly... As for his  outburst.. That was probably more than the isolated incident.. And other than being somewhat unprofessional ( tho by Grey's standards it was nothing)  it read true..  It was so preventable and Owen is such a good doctor and person.. That him making that kind of mistake which is rooted in privilege is.. Maddening to say the least

4 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Speaking of Tom....I wish i could say I can not believe that people applauded what Jackson did. It was rude and it was childish but this is a hospital of rude and childish people.  I'm sorry. There is someone sick with Covid, isolation drives most people batty, like. just put up with it for a few minutes. Heck. even put him on mute so you can get through the meeting and then un mute him. but just... flipping him over so the call dropped? and everyone applauding that? 

good gravy. 

Tom is really unlikeable.. He hit on everyone in sight.. He was condescending and GE was sleeping with Owen's fiance... Trust if Teddy wasn't treating Meredith right now she'd be iced out more than she already is... 

[Daisy]

39 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

Tom is really unlikeable.. He hit on everyone in sight.. He was condescending and GE was sleeping with Owen's fiance... Trust if Teddy wasn't treating Meredith right now she'd be iced out more than she already is... 

I'm not saying that he's not unlikable. that i get. 
but it's still a staff meeting. the guy is sick with the plague (basically). And underneath all of that, anyone would have to assume that the man is scared. You don't have to treat him like everyone is a-okay with what he did (or who he is, and whatever). but .... still. 

[UnoAgain]

12 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I'm not saying that he's not unlikable. that i get. 
but it's still a staff meeting. the guy is sick with the plague (basically). And underneath all of that, anyone would have to assume that the man is scared. You don't have to treat him like everyone is a-okay with what he did (or who he is, and whatever). but .... still. 

Yeah that's true... Wasn't really nice.. But at that moment wasn't he being weird about  something.. Im sure we could chalk it up to fest masked as bravado tho  

[Daisy]

11 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

Yeah that's true... Wasn't really nice.. But at that moment wasn't he being weird about  something.. Im sure we could chalk it up to fest masked as bravado tho  

well he was being his typical hand wave everything, you all made mistakes self. I don't remember everything like what they were talking about but it was about the Covid, and he's like yah i tested negative. something something. and Jackson is like. hahaha watch me be a butthead and flip it over. and what irritates me is that these people are always "LET'S TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN!!!!"  when they are sick.

 

Hate him or not - he's your own, and the man tested positive for Covid. I don't really care how much of a butthole he was and is. at least freaking ask him if he's started showing any kind of symptoms, and rest etc. Even Helm said they stopped giving her tests to give (him because he kept testing positive). Not even a "call us ASAP the moment you DO start showing signs." (lol sorry the rage is at these people not at you haha)

[statsgirl]

16 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I was screaming at Teddy for only talking to Tom through the door and then leaving the food and walking away and was convinced that when the camera went to Tom's side of the door we were going to see him bleeding from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He's alone and isolated from the hospital, doesn't have any friends aside from Amelia, and most of the crew is either apathetic towards him or hates him.

As soon as he didn't reply to Teddy, I assumed that he was sick with the corona virus since it can come on suddenly. It says a lot about his co-workers, not just Teddy, that no one bothered to check on him. I know that he was persona non grata, but it's still a failure of basic humanity on the part of the rest of the staff.

When Meredith told George that you feel sad when someone dies but you get over it and move on, I thought yeah, you do because you've always been a cold fish, naturally you move on. I'm glad George told her that not everyone does. I can't imagine that it wouldn't affect the two younger kids and I hate to think what it would do to Zola who lost her biological parents and then her adoptive father a few years ago. Maggie and Amelia/Linc living there provides the kids with a stability that they need.

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

With regards to the Asian patient storyline, I do get what they were going for and, in theory, Nico and the Asian resident weren't wrong. But the writing for those scenes was clunky and the acting from Alex Landi was not strong enough that the message didn't have the impact that it should have. The issue was that Owen, as an experienced doctor, should be educated enough to know the statistics of illnesses and diagnoses in non-white patients. He's been at the job for so long that he should know the statistics, but he's still privileged enough that he doesn't need to think about that. The story was supposed to be more about the implicit biases that white people have, especially in terms of medical illnesses. They have to be thinking of the common misdiagnoses that doctors make so it was supposed to be an eye opener for Owen.

That's what they were going for, but they misfired because it's not Owen's white privilege that's the problem, it's limited research publications.  White men are the white rats of medical research and it's only lately that ethnic differences are considered worth looking at. I am old enough to remember when Carol Tavris shocked the health care world with her book The Mismeasure of Woman in 1992 with research showing that women react differently to drugs than men do and the standard dosages that were calibrated on 185 pound men do not work the same for a 120 pound woman.

Owen was wrong because he wasn't up to date on all the research. But it wasn't racism. The reason that Asians have more right-sided diverticulitis (according to the new research) is because of morphology. For Owen to assume that Asians have a different morphology than other people, now that would be racist.

The patiet rejecting Kim because he's Asian was a microagression. Owen not knowing the research was not but Kim brought his anger at the former into his interaction with Owen. And Tseng needs to get over her own prejudices if she's going to be a good doctor.

5 hours ago, funnygirl said:

I don't understand, with a hospital full of aMaZIng surgeons, how Deloser ends up being 1 of 2 doctors on The Sun's case.

He's a doctor and the hospital apparently doesn't have any internists on staff.  My question is how did Teddy end up being her doctor?  Meredith isn't a surgical case. Surely Teddy has something cardio-thoracic to do.

[dmc]

2 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

I guess the intersectionality of the situation made it even more complex.. As I read the scene.. She seemed ready to pop off.. He sensed it.. And removed a junior from the situation.. Owen had been very complimentary to her for her work before that and her going off on him.. With the possibility of him ( owen)  reading it as being called racist was within the realm of possibility at least in Dr. Kim's eyes... I feel I'd have done something pretty similar honestly... As for his  outburst.. That was probably more than the isolated incident.. And other than being somewhat unprofessional ( tho by Grey's standards it was nothing)  it read true..  It was so preventable and Owen is such a good doctor and person.. That him making that kind of mistake which is rooted in privilege is.. Maddening to say the least

Tom is really unlikeable.. He hit on everyone in sight.. He was condescending and GE was sleeping with Owen's fiance... Trust if Teddy wasn't treating Meredith right now she'd be iced out more than she already is... 

I mean he’s a minority and gay so it’s completely possible he’s encountered things before, he’s fed up and also there’s the COVID angle.  The idea that COVID has spurn a lot of racism towards the Asian community.  

[taanja]

2 hours ago, Daisy said:

Speaking of Tom....I wish i could say I can not believe that people applauded what Jackson did. It was rude and it was childish but this is a hospital of rude and childish people.  I'm sorry. There is someone sick with Covid, isolation drives most people batty, like. just put up with it for a few minutes. Heck. even put him on mute so you can get through the meeting and then un mute him. but just... flipping him over so the call dropped? and everyone applauding that? 

good gravy. 

Completely agree. It made everyone in the scene unlikable to me.

Teddy for me is the problem. Teddy knew she was cheating on Owen. She is the one engaged to Owen - She is the one who takes the blame ... and what really annoys me is that I am even typing about Teddy and Owen. Two characters I can not stand.

Tom I have no problem with. He wasn't cheating on his fiancé/girlfriend.  he was just fucking a willing person.

That said-- Tom is a gonner for sure.

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

As soon as he didn't reply to Teddy, I assumed that he was sick with the corona virus since it can come on suddenly. It says a lot about his co-workers, not just Teddy, that no one bothered to check on him. I know that he was persona non grata, but it's still a failure of basic humanity on the part of the rest of the staff.

It was especially cold considering at the outside tent staff meeting they all were bombarding Richard with questions about Meredith before even talking about the hospital as a whole and the hundreds of other desperately sick patients. No one called him and checked in on him at all, except Helm for his daily tests? Would anyone besides Helm even cared enough to not only notice but bring it to a superior's attention that she thought Tom was getting into a dark place and needs someone to talk to? When Tom didn't call in to the next day's staff meeting would Jackson, Owen and the others blown it off and added it to the long list of Tom's offenses? They work in a hospital. They know what Covid does to people - exhibit A Meredith! And they know Tom is testing positive. If the show wants me to think Koracic is an asshole and not care that he dies so Meredith gets to live they aren't doing it right. It is just making everyone else look like assholes. 

[Daisy]

17 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

It was especially cold considering at the outside tent staff meeting they all were bombarding Richard with questions about Meredith before even talking about the hospital as a whole and the hundreds of other desperately sick patients. No one called him and checked in on him at all, except Helm for his daily tests? Would anyone besides Helm even cared enough to not only notice but bring it to a superior's attention that she thought Tom was getting into a dark place and needs someone to talk to? When Tom didn't call in to the next day's staff meeting would Jackson, Owen and the others blown it off and added it to the long list of Tom's offenses? They work in a hospital. They know what Covid does to people - exhibit A Meredith! And they know Tom is testing positive. If the show wants me to think Koracic is an asshole and not care that he dies so Meredith gets to live they aren't doing it right. It is just making everyone else look like assholes. 

 

i will say even though i think he was a total yick for sleeping with an engaged woman - I will 1000 percent miss Tom

[chitowngirl]

5 hours ago, marceline said:

I'm not looking forward to Teddy's histrionics when he goes.

It’ll be worse than her wallowing after her 2 second marriage of convenience ended.

One thing that would have made George and Meredith perfect-when George mentioned that he checks up on people and later Meredith questioned him doing what he did for a stranger...it would have been perfect if George mentioned he checks up on her too and that she’s living a great life. The one Izzy told her to go live.

[DEL901]

36 minutes ago, Daisy said:

 

i will say even though i think he was a total yick for sleeping with an engaged woman - I will 1000 percent miss Tom

He was a jerk to sleep with an engaged woman, but I believe that he totally thought she was breaking up with Owen and coming back to him.   She didn’t just hurt Owen, she hurt Tom too.  

[dvr devotee]

I will honestly be so sad if they kill Tom. I thought Teddy was going to find he had killed himself, and when she walked away next I thought they'd pan to him unconscious on the floor. I hope that they use Tom being sick as a vehicle for Teddy to realize how she really feels about him, eventually pushing the two of them together and killing the Tewen (Oweddy? Huntman? Do they have a couple name?) pairing for good. I really do not want to lose Greg Germann.

I was mad at Meredith's "well, they'll get over it and move on" in reference to her young children losing their mother. Are you freaking kidding me? We know Meredith is generally pretty self-centered, but that was just a bridge too far to me. I can't buy her being so callous about that, especially when she had such complicated relationships with her own parents and it screwed her up so badly. I mean, how many seasons did we talk about her "mommy issues"? How abandoned did she feel by her father, only to feel that all over again when she learned he had a whole new family? Does she really want her three kids to be "dark and twisty"?

So much of what was said on the beach hit me hard, in a way that this show's dialogue doesn't often do to me anymore. But the lines about grief were like an arrow through my heart.

Quote

Some grief is heavier than other grief. Sometimes it moves through you. Sometimes it just gets stuck. You carry it.

While so many of this show's storylines have stuck with me after viewing, I don't know that it's ever translated to me evaluating my own life. But those lines did, and even today, almost 20 hours later, I've been thinking about how I've moved through different griefs in my own life. I don't really know why those lines hit me so hard, but they did.

This episode was the one that made me think this could really be the final season. I wonder if the network could decide to renew (and extend Ellen's contract) but somehow keep it from being announced publicly until close to the season's end.