S01.E02: The Missing

[Nicmar]

On 11/2/2020 at 10:16 PM, Bluesky said:

Her face doesn’t move.  It was fascinating watching her at the diner with the blonde friend.  Lily rabe is in her 30’s and Nicole is in her 50’s. But Nicole’s face was like a baby’s, chubby cheeks and newborn skin.  Lily’s was more natural and alive. 

Nicole Kidman used to to botox and fillers, but stopped from what I read. lol

 

[ZaldamoWilder]

 

On 11/1/2020 at 10:47 PM, Miss Slay said:

Great episode. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

Hugh Grant is really great at playing F-boys. 

Girl he's not playing.

I can't even be mad at em.  Being a naughty boy must be great for your skin, he's 60 and still looks beautiful.   

On 11/2/2020 at 1:27 AM, peach said:

The show started losing me when she refused to consult a lawyer and went off with them in their cop car.  Wealthy people just do.not.do.this.   She hasn't consulted a lawyer about ANYTHING.  I think most women would be scouring his phone, scouring their bank accounts, googling the shit out of all these people including her own husband, getting a lawyer or investigator to find out wtf has been going on with him.  But she just floats around in a naive manner and puts herself in the hands of the cops.  

But I'm still kind of intrigued by the blonde friend, and various other aspects of the mystery. Maybe Grace acts like she does because she does have some kind of psychosis.

'damo post-it checklist:

1) google husband

2) get a husband

3) switch 1 and 2

On 11/2/2020 at 11:29 AM, Ashforth said:

There may not have been a conference at all.

It's definitely another plot hole that Grace didn't try to contact Jonathan's staff. A pediatric oncologist would have someone running his schedule, even if the hospital provided all the medical personnel. But as you said, if she had tried to call his office, she would have learned he didn't work there, which would mean the detective didn't get to drop the bomb, so... at this point I'm willing to roll with it.

As I reflected on this episode, I also decided that I think Grace did it. It would make Jonathan's cockamamie story of following Elena, fighting, fucking, leaving, and going back to find her murdered body make sense.

Also, when he got home that night it didn't appear that he got rid of a blood-soaked tux or showered to wash away the evidence. That was a bloody crime. Whoever did it would have a lot of blood on their clothes and body. I watch too many crime shows, because I was wondering where the forensics team was - they should have been there swabbing the shower drain for traces of blood.

The couple in the therapy sessions is definitely a stand-in for Jonathan and Grace. The cheater and the controller.

Tuh! Remember these 8 words....?   The State of California versus Orenthal James Simpson.

On 11/3/2020 at 11:41 AM, Maisiesmom said:

Please someone give Nicole some Visine! All those close-ups of her bloodshot eyes were making me nuts! And what supposed well-educated person would just go with the cops without a lawyer? She should have listened to Daddy on that one .I think her husband is guilty of the affair but I don't think he is the killer.I always thought New York was a huge city-why does Grace walk everywhere? Get an Uber or something, woman, you can afford it.

I think it probably films like a huge metropolis because there's not a square inch of unused space.   But this is indicative of just how wealthy she is.  Her work, home and Reardon are each a jaunty upper east side strolling distance of each other.   Sheeiid, that's actually pretty nice wherever you live but if you can do it in Manhattan?  Oh you rich-rich.  I ain't seen this lady touch a door handle yet. 

On 11/3/2020 at 1:45 PM, ahpny said:

If Grace is innocent, her lack of more reasoned, rational response - bring a lawyer - didn't strike me as too unrealistic. Innocent people react to startling news in various ways, many of which aren't wholly logical or ultimately in their best interest. She stated her reason for going to the police was getting more information from them - which she did. Her "sketchiness" isn't inconsistent with that stated goal.

But what didn't ring true was her lawyer-friend's representation Grace's husband. The lawyer-friend told Grace that the lawyer-friend hadn't discussed her representation with Grace before because of attorney-client privilege. So far so good. But, after setting forth the reason for her former silence, what was her basis for now betraying that still, fully-in force attorney client privilege? There isn't one that I can see. (Nothing we know suggests that the Crime-Fraud Exception could apply). What would more likely have gone down if the lawyer-friend were a true friend to Grace is the lawyer-friend would have refused to take the representation in the first place because her relationship with Grace and the unavoidable conflicts that would create. The lawyer-friend would have referred the husband to another attorney (and not merely "tried" to do so). Lawyers refuse clients all the time, and the lawyer-friend doesn't seem like she needs another client or the money that that representation would generate.

This struck me as a perfect reaction.  And properly demonstrative of privilege.  She told her father, don't be silly, I don't need a lawyer, I'll call you when I have more information.  Lol.  As though it was a foregone conclusion that a) I am going to be able to call you later;  b) you only need legal representation if you're guilty; and c) innocence immunizes you from peril - each of which sentiment is expressed in the back seat of a police car.  Chiiiiiile, the things I could do.   Must be nice.  My brain was like

The exception to attorney-client is if the client's objective is or becomes criminal (they intend to commit or cover-up, a crime or fraud).  Ya boy voided the hell out that shit lol. 

Now what I don't think is realistic?  Luscious Pantene hair in the middle of the worst crisis of ya life.  Carry on, that might just be me though.

p.s. who keeps perfume in their jacket pocket? 

 

 

[Maysie]

Throughout the episode my husband and I would look at each other and be all "no fucking way."

First of all, I have a hard time believing in a place like New York that Elena's murder would be such huge news that literally dozens of reporters are following it. It's not like she's famous or even "underground famous" in the art world. She did well enough to have a studio (financed by who - Grace's husband? Grace's father?), but from all appearances, money was tight. So I just have a hard time believing that if it got press, it would be much more than a story in the Post or something like that. Which leads me to...

even if it did get media coverage, the convergence of the press on the school is unbelievable. If I had to stretch it, maybe a tabloid reporter or two, but not a gauntlet of people that the parents and kids have to navigate. And as noted upthread, I can't imagine the school wouldn't have handled the whole thing better - the presence of the press, publicly shaming one of their favored parents and supporters, etc. If the school is that exclusive, I have to think they would have protocols in place to handle "interesting" situations. Add the cops loitering around the school - what the fuck?

We also side eyed Lily Rabe's character - confidentiality, but guess who I was representing???!!! If she didn't refuse Jonathan's case, why? So this is leading somewhere or is just poor writing, and at this point, I could go either way.

I am on the side of taking issue with Grace not having an attorney present when she went with the police. She's already been questioned by the police and they're hanging out at school, so for fuck's sake, listen to your father and get the attorney.

Based on what little I've seen of Grace at work, she doesn't strike me as a very good therapist. I always had the impression that a therapist was supposed to help you arrive at conclusions on your own. Yeah, they lead you there and there may be a push here and there, but Grace seems to cut right to the chase. Whomever upthread said that it shows how controlling she likes to be, I agree with this. But Grace is no Jennifer Melfi!

I hope I'm wrong, but this show seems to be built on names - Kidman, Grant, Sutherland - but a little light on substance. It feels a little like they're coasting on that. Not only is Nicole Kidman's face distracting, but she also slips into her native tongue sometimes and it pulls me further out of the moment.

 

[heatherchandler]

On 11/3/2020 at 4:38 PM, Bulldog said:

I still don't get why everyone - the police, the media, etc - are so focused on the school the murder victim's child attended. 

 

 

Yeah that is very weird.  I really can't see how filming outside the school where her kid went would even warrant one reporter, let alone a group!  Who wants to see school drop-off??

 

On 11/3/2020 at 3:35 PM, LilaFowler said:

Kidman's masklike face is so distracting. Her eyes and mouth are the only things that can move. I wonder if that's behind her ridiculous, breathy over-acting.

 

 

I know I am beating a dead horse, but omg it is just so bad, and so distracting.  She is always twisting her mouth, and pursing her lips and I think trying to play it off as "acting" but it actually looks like she is trying to keep her lips from hanging open from all of the injectables.  

 

34 minutes ago, Maysie said:

 

We also side eyed Lily Rabe's character - confidentiality, but guess who I was representing???!!! If she didn't refuse Jonathan's case, why? So this is leading somewhere or is just poor writing, and at this point, I could go either way.

 

Based on what little I've seen of Grace at work, she doesn't strike me as a very good therapist. I always had the impression that a therapist was supposed to help you arrive at conclusions on your own. Yeah, they lead you there and there may be a push here and there, but Grace seems to cut right to the chase. Whomever upthread said that it shows how controlling she likes to be, I agree with this. But Grace is no Jennifer Melfi!

 

I feel like it is probably poor writing.  Isn't this the same writer as the other one where Nicole Kidman had to look nervous all the time?  Big Little Lies?  I thought that show had some terrible writing as well.  Good premise, both of these shows... but the writing is bad, really bad.

You are RIGHT, she is NO Jennifer Melfi!

[aghst]

On 11/2/2020 at 5:20 PM, Rickster said:

I wish they would lose their fascination with shooting Nicole’s eye movements from 2 inches away.

So how did Jonathan know she was at the beach house? Or was he just coincidentally hiding out there himself?

I'm guessing the latter, that she really saw him passing behind the rocks at the beach, not just imagine it.

But man that must be a big beach house or mountain cabin or whatever, because he must have been upstairs and they didn't notice until late at night when he was skulking around.

[hurrrz]

I like this show so far. The thing I am enjoying is Nicole's clothes in this. I feel like it's perfect bougie New York outfits that she wears in this. The character loves that green robe jacket apparently. :D  

 

 

[ahpny]

Quote

The exception to attorney-client is if the client's objective is or becomes criminal (they intend to commit or cover-up, a crime or fraud).  Ya boy voided the hell out that shit lol. 

No. This is not correct. Nothing we have been told could justify the lawyer-friend's breach of attorney-client privilege by telling Grace about the details of the lawyer-friend's representation of Grace's husband. Criminals, both merely accused and proven, still get, and may keep, an attorney-client privilege. The exception is very narrow and may apply when communications between an attorney and client are themselves used to further a crime, tort, or fraud. None of that has been established here. Whatever he has done - and the lawyer knows nothing other than he ran away and the women who had accused him was killed by someone - cannot justify breaching attorney-client privilege. In the real world, she could be disbarred for this.

[Maysie]

22 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I feel like it is probably poor writing.  Isn't this the same writer as the other one where Nicole Kidman had to look nervous all the time?  Big Little Lies?  I thought that show had some terrible writing as well.  Good premise, both of these shows... but the writing is bad, really bad.

I believe you're right. I liked the first season of Big Little Lies, even though I kind of figured it out about two episodes in, but the second season seemed like it was thrown together because they could, with Meryl Streep sealing the deal. This gives me a similar vibe - it feels like they're relying on the actors to make us handwave away the poor writing.

I have to say, HBO has been letting me down lately. We're currently re-watching the Sopranos and damn, the writing and acting is absolutely stellar. It sets such a high bar that when I give my time over to something like The Undoing, I wonder how it could possibly be from the same company. I know there's 20 years between the two shows, different writers, stories, actors, etc., but I used to assume that if something was on HBO it would be pretty tight. I may not have cared for the show (e.g., Deadwood), but I knew it would have some pretty solid acting, writing and continuity. I don't hate this show - I'm curious about how it's going to play out, etc. - but for me, it's emblematic that HBO isn't the gold standard for television so much these days.

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, Maysie said:

I believe you're right. I liked the first season of Big Little Lies, even though I kind of figured it out about two episodes in, but the second season seemed like it was thrown together because they could, with Meryl Streep sealing the deal. This gives me a similar vibe - it feels like they're relying on the actors to make us handwave away the poor writing.

I have to say, HBO has been letting me down lately. We're currently re-watching the Sopranos and damn, the writing and acting is absolutely stellar. It sets such a high bar that when I give my time over to something like The Undoing, I wonder how it could possibly be from the same company. I know there's 20 years between the two shows, different writers, stories, actors, etc., but I used to assume that if something was on HBO it would be pretty tight. I may not have cared for the show (e.g., Deadwood), but I knew it would have some pretty solid acting, writing and continuity. I don't hate this show - I'm curious about how it's going to play out, etc. - but for me, it's emblematic that HBO isn't the gold standard for television so much these days.

YES, I so agree!  I am forced to re-watch Sopranos over and over because the shows today are crap.  Sopranos had it all, and it was original.  The writing was so good, and the acting! 

I also don't hate this show, it is ok, but it is more like a Hallmark movie, in terms of writing.

 

[Razzberry]

Henry is creeping me out, the way he's always around and listening.  I'll bet he's known all along that his father was having an affair - nothing gets by that kid.

[Rickster]

13 hours ago, Maysie said:

I believe you're right. I liked the first season of Big Little Lies, even though I kind of figured it out about two episodes in, but the second season seemed like it was thrown together because they could, with Meryl Streep sealing the deal. This gives me a similar vibe - it feels like they're relying on the actors to make us handwave away the poor writing.

I have to say, HBO has been letting me down lately. We're currently re-watching the Sopranos and damn, the writing and acting is absolutely stellar. It sets such a high bar that when I give my time over to something like The Undoing, I wonder how it could possibly be from the same company. I know there's 20 years between the two shows, different writers, stories, actors, etc., but I used to assume that if something was on HBO it would be pretty tight. I may not have cared for the show (e.g., Deadwood), but I knew it would have some pretty solid acting, writing and continuity. I don't hate this show - I'm curious about how it's going to play out, etc. - but for me, it's emblematic that HBO isn't the gold standard for television so much these days.

Couldn't agree more. I used to watch a lot of the HBO series via DVD rental (Sopranos, The Wire, Rome, etc.). I'll admit I broke down and got a subscription to watch Game of Thrones. Since the end of Game of Thrones, I've  been waiting for, if not the next Game of Thrones, some on the quality level of those earlier series, and I'm not finding that in anything they're putting out. I couldn't count the number of their recent series I've lasted 1-2 episodes of. This one at least is holding my interest so far.

[DangerousMinds]

11 hours ago, Rickster said:

Couldn't agree more. I used to watch a lot of the HBO series via DVD rental (Sopranos, The Wire, Rome, etc.). I'll admit I broke down and got a subscription to watch Game of Thrones. Since the end of Game of Thrones, I've  been waiting for, if not the next Game of Thrones, some on the quality level of those earlier series, and I'm not finding that in anything they're putting out. I couldn't count the number of their recent series I've lasted 1-2 episodes of. This one at least is holding my interest so far.

I thought “The Deuce” was brilliant.

[Happytobehere]

On 11/1/2020 at 11:54 PM, buckboard said:
I was surprised she didn't call his office and check with his secretary.  I guess if she had, she would have found out sooner that he no longer worked at the hospital, but it wouldn't have been as dramatic as finding out from the police and her lawyer friend.

  

I just figured that this gaping plot point will be a part of Kidman’s reveal as an unreliable narrator.
 

I think she knew who the victim was and what her relationship was with her husband. What I found interesting was that she didn’t revise the paternity issue during the confrontation with her husband. These little moments read as being “off” to me and I wonder if hey are their to make viewers question Grace’s sanity and culpability in the crime.

[Happytobehere]

On 11/2/2020 at 1:09 AM, SourK said:

This show frustrates me so much. Grace makes every conversation she has needlessly mysterious and confusing, and then the detectives do a bunch of stuff that's not going to help them solve the crime.

I think the most frustrating part was the interrogation scene, where they were like, "Did you know your husband was fired?" and she says no, and then they're like, "Do you know why he was fired?" and she says no, and then they're like, "Do you know which specific patient he touched when he got fired?" and WTF do you think the answer will be at that point? Like, whether she's lying or not, she's denied any knowledge of the situation, so she's going to keep denying any knowledge of the details. Asking more and more specific questions about a topic someone has already said they don't know anything about is not a great technique.

That is a valid and often used interrogation technique. Throw a rapid fire series of questions that are slight variations on a theme. People get flustered and will often trip up in their response, even if the trip up is not an actual reflection of culpability, their minds  are just trying to keep up and sometimes a slip up, possibly Freudian in nature will reveal something that leads officers to the truth. The veracity of the mistake is questionable, but I think that 8n this case, it plays right into the questions I think the show is trying to lead us to ask.

[AryasMum]

13 minutes ago, Happytobehere said:

I just figured that this gaping plot point will be a part of Kidman’s reveal as an unreliable narrator.
 

I think she knew who the victim was and what her relationship was with her husband. What I found interesting was that she didn’t revise the paternity issue during the confrontation with her husband. These little moments read as being “off” to me and I wonder if hey are their to make viewers question Grace’s sanity and culpability in the crime.

I despise unreliable narrators. I’ve never felt so betrayed by a book than the second half of Gone Girl. 

[falconress]

On 11/3/2020 at 11:41 AM, Maisiesmom said:

Please someone give Nicole some Visine! All those close-ups of her bloodshot eyes were making me nuts! And what supposed well-educated person would just go with the cops without a lawyer? She should have listened to Daddy on that one .I think her husband is guilty of the affair but I don't think he is the killer.I always thought New York was a huge city-why does Grace walk everywhere? Get an Uber or something, woman, you can afford it.

Walking everywhere would be very, very typical for the ladies who live, work, scheme, brunch, lunch and gossip - all within zip code 10028. If they have to go downtown for some reason, they think they need passports. In a practical sense, New York traffic is so congested that you get there - wherever there is -faster on foot most of the time.

When they ride, they don't use Uber. They use fleets of chauffeur-driven black Lincoln town cars.

The longest interaction a lady like that would have with a police detective is to give him the number of her family attorney.

[Bluesky]

On 11/5/2020 at 4:07 PM, ahpny said:

No. This is not correct. Nothing we have been told could justify the lawyer-friend's breach of attorney-client privilege by telling Grace about the details of the lawyer-friend's representation of Grace's husband. Criminals, both merely accused and proven, still get, and may keep, an attorney-client privilege. The exception is very narrow and may apply when communications between an attorney and client are themselves used to further a crime, tort, or fraud. None of that has been established here. Whatever he has done - and the lawyer knows nothing other than he ran away and the women who had accused him was killed by someone - cannot justify breaching attorney-client privilege. In the real world, she could be disbarred for this.

Lawyers like everyone else don’t always follow the rules.  Not all that shocking that her friend would tell her.  

[Ashforth]

2 hours ago, Bluesky said:

Lawyers like everyone else don’t always follow the rules.  Not all that shocking that her friend would tell her.  

Especially because isn't this the friend who prides herself on being first to know everything and the spreader of news? It's surprising that she withheld this juicy tidbit from Grace as long as she did. Maybe because Jonathan told her (I think) that the hospital had decided the allegations were unfounded.

[Aqua]

On 11/1/2020 at 11:14 PM, txhorns79 said:

I had a similar thought.  If I knew my spouse was on a business trip and wasn't responding to my calls, the first thing I would do would be to contact their office to see if they had a way to reach them. 

When she walked into her therapy office she asked her secretary to phone someone at the hospital but we never heard the result of that.

On 11/2/2020 at 12:27 AM, peach said:

But I'm still kind of intrigued by the blonde friend, and various other aspects of the mystery. Maybe Grace acts like she does because she does have some kind of psychosis.

The blonde friend (Sophia? Sylvia?) was over-the-top distraught about Elena's murder, actually interrupting a law firm meeting to get up and call Grace, which I thought interesting, but then it makes sense when you hear that she was representing Jonathan in a case regarding the murdered girl.

On 11/2/2020 at 7:10 AM, Chaos Theory said:

My biggest gripe is that Grace let the police take her to the police station without a lawyer.  Which was incredibly stupid.  

As a lawyer I can say this happens in real life way too often. People think they can talk themselves into being removed from the suspect list, and they often believe if they bring in a lawyer they'll look more guilty.

On 11/2/2020 at 2:34 PM, Pop Tart said:

And that she immediately called the police and reported him? Also a nice surprise.

I am so glad they didn't do the tired old trope of she believes him at first and then slowly over a series of episodes starts to suspect him again.

On 11/2/2020 at 9:51 PM, One Imaginary Girl said:

It's nothing important, but it grated on me that she didn't have a purse when she left the police station. She still had a phone, and then her keys when she got back home, but I think a woman like her would carry stuff in an expensive bag, not just her coat pockets.

Agree, that was odd but I guess it shows she was thinking it would be just a quick trip to the police station to get everything straightened out and she'd be back at her father's in a half hour.

[Aqua]

On 11/3/2020 at 5:38 PM, Bulldog said:

So, do we now think Grace's visions of what happened are just her imagination or an actual recollection of events? 

 

I think she is imagining all these things, like when she was imagining Jonathan and Elena having sex.

[atlantaloves]

Guys, Grace did it i tell ya! 

[FoundTime]

On 11/3/2020 at 11:06 AM, Milburn Stone said:

I keep wondering if the super-close eye shots are actually an eye-model. Something about them looks just a tad different from Nicole's eyes to me. Plus they look like wide angle lens, not tele, which means the camera has to be incredibly close, and I don't know if a big star would need to put up with that.

I read an interview with Kidman where she said that it was really difficult to get used to "Okay, now we're going to shoot an extreme close-up of your eye!"

And AryasMum, I love me a good unreliable narrator! I read a lot of fiction and most narrators are inherently unreliable (as in, why should we believe anything is true just because a character tells us so?) I think it makes a work more interesting and helps us realize how complicit we are in how we think a story is framed. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by FoundTime
A little love for unreliable narrators 😉

[MBayGal]

On 11/6/2020 at 2:44 AM, Rickster said:

I have to say, HBO has been letting me down lately. We're currently re-watching the Sopranos and damn, the writing and acting is absolutely stellar. It sets such a high bar that when I give my time over to something like The Undoing, I wonder how it could possibly be from the same company. I know there's 20 years between the two shows, different writers, stories, actors, etc., but

Remember that AT&T now owns HBO, and the person who was responsible for greenlighting those superior shows left after AT&T took over.  The person who took charge of programming is an AT&T exec who is not from an entertainment background.    

[FoundTime]

5 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Remember that AT&T now owns HBO, and the person who was responsible for greenlighting those superior shows left after AT&T took over.  The person who took charge of programming is an AT&T exec who is not from an entertainment background.    

Yes, John Oliver never lets us forget who the corporate daddy is (to hilarious effect, natch). There's also been some turnover on the documentary side, with the great Sheila Nevins leaving, and that side has also suffered. See: The Vow (or, actually, don't). 

I'm enjoying The Undoing well enough (the cast alone, swoon, and I love a good murder mystery), and I May Destroy You was amazing work, but with HBO having to compete with all the streaming services (which have the same freedom with adult language and content), its golden age is probably behind it.

[tennisgurl]

Lawyer Grace! Call your lawyer! Especially when you must know several (including your best friend!) and your dad is some kind of super wealthy titan of industry type. 

How weird is it that Nicole Kidman has seemingly been typecast as the "wealthy and polished woman who is teetering on the edge of a breakdown"? I thought that Jonathan would be gone for awhile and only show up in flashbacks (or even that he was dead) so I was happy to be surprised when he showed up, and then when Grace called the cops. I do not think that Jonathan did it, it just seems too obvious. I am leaning towards Grace's dad maybe hiring someone to take her out, although I could see Grace having done it and maybe blocking it out of her memory. 

[Aqua]

I've been mulling this episode over in my mind and I've kind of changed my view. Thinking it was kind of a letdown when Jonathan showed up at the beach house. Took away all the suspense of where is he? Is Grace's whole life a mirage? Are things not as they appear? Then previews came on of him in an orange jumpsuit saying, "I'm innocent!" Thinking this show is not gong to be as titillating as I once thought, maybe just a run-of-the mill courtroom drama.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Like everyone else, Nicole's china doll forehead is distracting.  Her eyes are also buggy.

I was glad that she called the cops, though.  Only smart thing she did the whole episode.

 

[Happytobehere]

On 11/6/2020 at 9:52 PM, AryasMum said:

I despise unreliable narrators. I’ve never felt so betrayed by a book than the second half of Gone Girl. 

I have not read the book, but I feel you.

[MamaMax]

On 11/2/2020 at 9:19 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think Hugh Grant is.  He had 5 children with two different women in the past decade, bouncing back between them all the while!

I'm loving this show so far!  Except for Nicole's really blank expressions 😞.   Of course, this could be a choice, who knows.

It really suspends disbelief and makes me really upset to watch somebody on a 2020 show being questioned about a murder and not hire a lawyer.  It's too , too, too, too, too, too stupid.

My souse is in law enforcement and has said that many people talk to police without a lawyer l because they “think asking for one  makes them look guilty” and also because many genuinely think they can outsmart the cops. 

On 11/4/2020 at 7:48 AM, Kirsty said:

I've watched the first two episodes and this was great fun! My favourite moment was the reveal that the husband hasn't worked at the hospital for months. I love that shit, it cracks me up.

Nicole's character started stressing and thinking the worst very quickly. Like, you'd think she'd be relieved to find the husband's phone at home given that he hadn't answered her calls and messages all day. Oh, he forgot his phone! It all makes sense. Instead she concludes that he must have planned to be out of reach? But it works for the atmosphere of the show.

I'm basically suspecting everyone: the main character, her father, her son, her lawyer friend! Also, lovely to see Janel Moloney on my screen again.

If I left town without my phone by accident, one my first orders of business would be to get in touch with my spouse to say I didn’t have my phone.  Most people these days would be lost without their phones. 

[statsgirl]

I got angry at the two detectives interrogating a 9 year old boy without any adults to protect him, and then I remembered that this is a David Kelley production and I shouldn't expect realism.

The bad psychology on this show is going to drive me crazy.  Obsessive-compulsive people don't obsess about people, they obsess about rituals and as a psychiatrist Grace should know that. Elena is an example of a borderline personality disorder. Was Kelley too cheap to spring for an expert consultant?

On 11/2/2020 at 7:24 AM, Mellowyellow said:

Hugh Grant plays a very charming scumbag. Great casting choice. Jonathan is without a doubt a complete scumbag however HG is able to convey why people would fall for this scumbag.

True. And necessary.

I'm enjoying HG's Jonathan much more than I am Kidman's Grace. Nicole Kidman is exquisite, a porcelein statues, and I can never forget that that when I'm watching her. She's too delicate, too angelic with those flowing red curls which must take over an hour to do each morning and which is inappropriate for a working therapist. (She looks better at 53 than I did at 23.) It pulls me out of the scenes because the story is gritty and dirty and she's isn't.

[Roxie]

On 11/2/2020 at 4:44 PM, buttersister said:

The director/DP can lose their fascination with the back of Nicole's head/hair any time now.

Please also dispense with the closeups of her eyes.

On 11/2/2020 at 10:51 PM, One Imaginary Girl said:

It's nothing important, but it grated on me that she didn't have a purse when she left the police station. She still had a phone, and then her keys when she got back home, but I think a woman like her would carry stuff in an expensive bag, not just her coat pockets.

This always drives me nuts!!

[Enigma X]

On 11/4/2020 at 5:10 PM, Maysie said:

Throughout the episode my husband and I would look at each other and be all "no fucking way."

First of all, I have a hard time believing in a place like New York that Elena's murder would be such huge news that literally dozens of reporters are following it. It's not like she's famous or even "underground famous" in the art world. She did well enough to have a studio (financed by who - Grace's husband? Grace's father?), but from all appearances, money was tight. So I just have a hard time believing that if it got press, it would be much more than a story in the Post or something like that. Which leads me to...

even if it did get media coverage, the convergence of the press on the school is unbelievable. If I had to stretch it, maybe a tabloid reporter or two, but not a gauntlet of people that the parents and kids have to navigate. And as noted upthread, I can't imagine the school wouldn't have handled the whole thing better - the presence of the press, publicly shaming one of their favored parents and supporters, etc. If the school is that exclusive, I have to think they would have protocols in place to handle "interesting" situations. Add the cops loitering around the school - what the fuck?

 

Yeah. I was saying while watching the media fiasco outside the school that these people are rich but not rich and famous, would the media behave this way? Sure. It would be on the news but not like this.

[nara]

On 11/2/2020 at 8:10 AM, Chaos Theory said:

 

Either way I still find this interesting enough.    Plus I like that Lily Rabe’s character wasn’t among the bitchy moms that turned on Grace.  I thought they were painfully realistic for upper class mothers.   Asking for free advice one moment then the next gossiping a person in trouble.  

I am waiting to hear that she had an affair with Jonathan...

[Cheezwiz]

On 11/5/2020 at 11:31 AM, hurrrz said:

I like this show so far. The thing I am enjoying is Nicole's clothes in this. I feel like it's perfect bougie New York outfits that she wears in this. The character loves that green robe jacket apparently. 😄 

I'm loving it so far, plot holes and all! On an utterly shallow note: the clothing and decor visuals are absolutely gorgeous. The wardrobe is beautiful, and all the interiors look like they're covered Farrow & Ball paint. I've been drooling over the wallpaper and coverlet in Nicole's bedroom.Must be nice to have a big beach house to hide in when you're entangled in a high-profile murder case. Shallow note #2: Beardy Detective dude is kinda hot.

I still find Hugh Grant yummy after all these years (to me he was perfection in Sense & Sensibility) and he's ideally cast as a charming duplicitous scumbag. The story is pulling me along, because at this point, I think ANY one of them could have done it: Grace, Jonathan, their kid Henry, Grace's Dad, Lily Rabe's character, the non-existent dog the family didn't wind up getting...

The send up of upper-class Moms is pretty funny. This really does seem like an East Coast version of Big Little Lies

As someone mentioned upthread, the opening credits featuring the little red-haired girl are a clue. I'm fairly certain that Daddy is involved somehow. If he's not directly tied to the murder, it's a sure bet a connection between Donald Sutherland's character and the murdered woman will soon be revealed. And I think it's significant that Grace is a therapist. Not only are the couples she's meeting serving as stand-ins for her own marriage, but  Isn't it a common movie trope that therapists and psychiatric professionals are even more troubled than their patients?

 

[pasdetrois]

Quote

Kidman's masklike face is so distracting. Her eyes and mouth are the only things that can move. I wonder if that's behind her ridiculous, breathy over-acting.

Her vanity keeps her from being a great actress. Her vanity is a character in every project she does.

[Ashforth]

8 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

Her vanity keeps her from being a great actress. Her vanity is a character in every project she does.

I think she's just not a good actress. People magazine published a review of this series and gushed about how incredibly awesome her acting in it is. I know that their lifeblood is giving tongue baths to powerful celebrities, but did the reviewer watch the same show I did?

If Kidman was still involved in Scientology I could see why she is still employed in so many projects despite her one-note performances over and over again. Maybe part of her long ago settlement with Tom Cruise was that the "church" would continue to push her as a great actress if she gave up her kids.

[pasdetrois]

She's definitely a draw, in terms of movie viewership. I don't think she would be cast otherwise. Her schtick is to pander to audiences by playing the beautiful quivery victim, over and over, and lots of people are drawn to that. I'm just not one of them.

In the first episode there was a close-up shot of her in quarter profile, and I gasped at how screwed up her face appeared. Eyes set deep into plumped skin - the fillers or whatever that stuff is were startling. And.the.wig.

I think the kid who plays her son is a better actor than she is. Not to mention Rabe and Sutherland.

Edited November 25, 2020 by pasdetrois

[Anela]

When she was being questioned, I thought there had been a security camera in the elevator, when Elena kissed her, and they'd seen the footage. Surely they would be scouring all of that. 

I wanted her to bite his hand, when it was covering her mouth. Although she could have killed Elena, and set him up, because she found out about the affair.

[Ashforth]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

When she was being questioned, I thought there had been a security camera in the elevator, when Elena kissed her, and they'd seen the footage. Surely they would be scouring all of that. 

Another plot hole.

[LeGrandElephant]

Ok, so that scene of Hugh Grant at the hospital last episode WAS a flashback - seems like a cheat, making it seem like he was there at that time. Now I know this is the kind of show where I can't trust what they show us, which is annoying. They should have made that more clearly a flashback. 

Yes, once the lawyer friend had taken his case, she's bound by privilege, but is she bound by privilege if he asks her to take his case and she says no? Why would she ever say yes to representing her best friend's husband without her best friend's knowledge, especially on a sexual misconduct charge? Isn't it part of her job to avoid such obvious conflicts of interest? I hope that is going somewhere - like the lawyer friend did the murder, or was having an affair with the husband - rather than just being a bizarre inexplicable choice by the lawyer friend (what's her name?). 

Nicole Kidman going down to the police station all alone without a lawyer or purse or anything, on the spur of the moment at night, was ridiculous. At least she eventually summoned her knowledge of things like custodial situations but she should have started by saying she'd be happy to schedule a meeting with them and her lawyer the next morning. How did the police know to find her at her father's house? 

The credits with a little girl and blood seem like maybe there was some murder buried in her childhood which she has repressed memories of, or something along those lines... 

If she believes her husband probably just beat a woman to death, one he was sleeping with, then she should be afraid of him and trying to placate him and calling the police once his back is turned, not confronting him to his face all alone with no witnesses or protection. And she should probably have had some kind of protection at the beach house, given how rich her father is. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by LeGrandElephant

[hoodooznoodooz]

4 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

 

The credits with a little girl and blood seem like maybe there was some murder buried in her childhood which she has repressed memories of, or something along those lines... 

Spoiler

Oh, geez. Thank you for reminding me. This is yet another matter they never explain.

 

6 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

If she believes her husband probably just beat a woman to death, one he was sleeping with, then she should be afraid of him and trying to placate him and calling the police once his back is turned, not confronting him to his face all alone with no witnesses or protection. 

So true! That’s the first thing they teach you. Don’t do or say anything to provoke.

[A.Ham]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:50 PM, Cheezwiz said:

I think ANY one of them could have done it: Grace, Jonathan, their kid Henry, Grace's Dad, Lily Rabe's character, the non-existent dog the family didn't wind up getting...

 

[Lamima]

Grace did it. She knew of the affair. We even see flash back glimpses. She saw them making love that last night and killed her.