Claire.....wait, There’s a Justin?

[Jynnan tonnix]

12 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

When I was sixteen I had a crush on my first cousin. Hell, I didn’t know. I was a kid. He was handsome.

Point is, kids shouldn’t “court.”

When I was 17, I had a mega-crush on my first cousin. To be fair, they came to visit from England, and I'd only seen him once since I was 13, and only at holidays previously when we still lived in the same country. Plus, as an only child with no other relatives nearby, the whole concept of familial taboos was not really ingrained in me.  It was not entirely unrequited, either, though it came to nothing much beyond flirtation. It touched me for life, though. To this day, over 40 years later, I still rather pine and yearn when I'm around him, and he's almost the only person who ever shows up in my dreams.

All that being said, however, as much as I love him dearly, I realize, in retrospect, that had we not been related, and HAD ended up together, it would probably not have worked very well long-term. 

[Ohiopirate02]

28 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Perhaps orchestrated fits better than arranged.

IDK 🤷🏼‍♀️
 

Do the females fill out a questionnaire, as the males do?

There is no need for a female to tax her brain to fill out a questionnaire, but I bet her daddy fills it out.

[doodlebug]

22 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Perhaps orchestrated fits better than arranged.

IDK 🤷🏼‍♀️
 

Do the females fill out a questionnaire, as the males do?

Why would the girls need to complete a questionnaire?  In their cult, all women are to 'keep sweet', to obey their father and eventually their husband and that their only role in life is to keep house, have babies and homeschool them.  They are interchangeable. Girls have no agency, it doesn't matter who they are or what they want because they spend their entire life being indoctrinated and they're told who they are and what they want, no exceptions, no outliers.  Any girl who doesn't want to follow the one and only path permitted, can only refuse to court, ala Jana.  

[Scarlett45]

Given the Spivey family only has one child of marriageable age at this point, I can see Dad Spivey telling JB to bring his single sons to TX and see who hit it off with Claire. 
 

I know several people under the age of 40 who have had arranged marriages- NONE of these marriages were forced. None of them were introduced at the altar- I think the use of the term “arranged” has different meanings to different cultures/social groups. 
 

I can see Dad Spivey arranging this marriage for Claire, if she was introduced to all of the single Duggar sons close to her age and hit it off with Justin. 

[Nysha]

I think it was arranged in a loose fashion, more on the "lets mix the families and see what happens" than "this is your god-given mate". The Spivey's are acceptable, the Rod's have a couple of eligible daughters but I doubt JB wants Jill as an adjacent family member, so they're probably not going to mix with them.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Nysha said:

I think it was arranged in a loose fashion, more on the "lets mix the families and see what happens" than "this is your god-given mate". The Spivey's are acceptable, the Rod's have a couple of eligible daughters but I doubt JB wants Jill as an adjacent family member, so they're probably not going to mix with them.

Rob Spivey apparently runs a profitable business, and they don't have a ton of kids to support. And I wonder how much that kind of thing will influence the Duggs' thinking about marriages going forward. If I were JB or M, I'd be wondering whether we shouldn't push as many kids as possible toward co-cultist/co-religionist families who'll have some ability to help us support them and the grandbabies down the line.

There's always talk about Lauren Caldwell. But as far as I can tell, the Caldwells' financial future has never looked bright, with a ton of kids to support and Pa Caldwell having just a small church and having needed to supplement his income with freelance auto-mechanic work for years at a stretch, reportedly. He tried to add salary-of-an-elected-official to his finances, but that attempt crashed pretty heavily and so far there's been no second attempt.

To me, they don't look to be good candidates for adding a Duggar boy and his babies to the pile of people they support/help support. It seems highly unlikely that Caldwell could offer a paying church gig to a Duggar boy. Your church doesn't get more business and more cash just because you add another employee.

So if another Duggarling male marries Lauren, that new family will still be entirely on JB's tit or, even if the Duggarling has auto mechanic skills like Caldwell, the Duggarling would pretty much have to get his own freelance mechanic gigs and customers, probably. That's a kind of thing no Duggarling seems to have done so far. I'd think this money scenario might put a few "caution" flags on Lauren as a potential Duggarling spouse -- leading them to sniff around like-minded families with a business/more money/fewer dependents, in search of more favorable options, economically.

I also wonder to what extent the Duggarlings discuss this kind of thing with their parents. Surely at least JB must give SOME thought to the long-term economics of continuing to stuff the ark with more and more propagating pairs with no means of support other than him. So does he discuss this kind of consideration with the sons?

The purported son-in-law questionnaire was full of how-well-will-you-support-a-family-related questions. So I'd think that, with the Duggarling clan growing exponentially, some related questions would at least be asked internally about the marrying-in women.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Churchhoney

[crazy8s]

Justin was shown working with Pa Caldwell on learning auto mechanics when he was about 14, (Justin the preaching mechanic) a skill that would have been useful to the JB enterprise of auction auto buying and resale. That Justin is now a "house flipper" for JB or dad Spivey is interesting.

 

 

[Temperance]

5 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I have said before in another thread that I think this is what happened.  JB and Mr. Spivey got together and decided their two families should make a match.  So the Spiveys head over to Arkansas to visit and see what unfolds.  Lo and behold, Claire and Justin like each other.  After getting burned by Derick and Jeremy, JB is not going to allow a stranger into the nest again.  He is going to vet the families who socialize with his kids to make sure another one doesn't have the chance to fly away.  But, he also still allows his kids the right of refusal.  I'm sure there have been many a gentleman caller who has visited the homestead to inquire about Jana, and she has sent all of them packing.  The kids have a choice, but a limited one.  In this instance, Claire got to pick her man from a Daddy-approved pool.

I'm not so sure about this either. Jeremy seems to get along okay with JB (not like Derrick). I also think that girls are given a wider range of guys to marry, because fundie boys/men are ill-equipped to deal with family. The Duggar boys all get involved with fundie girls usually with an IBLP connection. 

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Rob Spivey apparently runs a profitable business, and they don't have a ton of kids to support. And I wonder how much that kind of thing will influence the Duggs' thinking about marriages going forward. If I were JB or M, I'd be wondering whether we shouldn't push as many kids as possible toward co-cultist/co-religionist families who'll have some ability to help us support them and the grandbabies down the line.

There's always talk about Lauren Caldwell. But as far as I can tell, the Caldwells' financial future has never looked bright, with a ton of kids to support and Pa Caldwell having just a small church and having needed to supplement his income with freelance auto-mechanic work for years at a stretch, reportedly. He tried to add salary-of-an-elected-official to his finances, but that attempt crashed pretty heavily and so far there's been no second attempt.

To me, they don't look to be good candidates for adding a Duggar boy and his babies to the pile of people they support/help support. It seems highly unlikely that Caldwell could offer a paying church gig to a Duggar boy. Your church doesn't get more business and more cash just because you add another employee.

So if another Duggarling male marries Lauren, that new family will still be entirely on JB's tit or, even if the Duggarling has auto mechanic skills like Caldwell, the Duggarling would pretty much have to get his own freelance mechanic gigs and customers, probably. That's a kind of thing no Duggarling seems to have done so far. I'd think this money scenario might put a few "caution" flags on Lauren as a potential Duggarling spouse -- leading them to sniff around like-minded families with a business/more money/fewer dependents, in search of more favorable options, economically.

I also wonder to what extent the Duggarlings discuss this kind of thing with their parents. Surely at least JB must give SOME thought to the long-term economics of continuing to stuff the ark with more and more propagating pairs with no means of support other than him. So does he discuss this kind of consideration with the sons?

The purported son-in-law questionnaire was full of how-well-will-you-support-a-family-related questions. So I'd think that, with the Duggarling clan growing exponentially, some related questions would at least be asked internally about the marrying-in women.

 

I think JB expects to support his sons and daughters-in-law in the way he has with the rest of them, but I think this will play a factor when the other girls get married.  He'll try to find guys with more ability to support a family. 

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I'm not so sure about this either. Jeremy seems to get along okay with JB (not like Derrick). I also think that girls are given a wider range of guys to marry, because fundie boys/men are ill-equipped to deal with family. The Duggar boys all get involved with fundie girls usually with an IBLP connection. 

I think JB expects to support his sons and daughters-in-law in the way he has with the rest of them, but I think this will play a factor when the other girls get married.  He'll try to find guys with more ability to support a family. 

I think JB is trying to get the girls married off to guys who can support them, hence, the bigger leeway in who they marry.  Except for Jessa, all of the girls have married guys who either had a college degree and some decent job experience or a guy who is known for being hardworking and self supporting in the construction industry.  All of these guys also seemingly came from fairly solidly middle class families who could perhaps be expected to help them out if things got rough moneywise. Meanwhile, most of the guys, other than JD, married sheltered fundy daughters fresh out of homeschooling with no marketable skills and whose parents were not necessarily financially stable.

I think JB's requirements for a husband for one of his daughters are much different than for a wife for a son.  He wants those girls to leave and cleave while he expects to provide a job and/or support to his sons and their families.

[Temperance]

15 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I think JB is trying to get the girls married off to guys who can support them, hence, the bigger leeway in who they marry.  Except for Jessa, all of the girls have married guys who either had a college degree and some decent job experience or a guy who is known for being hardworking and self supporting in the construction industry.  All of these guys also seemingly came from fairly solidly middle class families who could perhaps be expected to help them out if things got rough moneywise. Meanwhile, most of the guys, other than JD, married sheltered fundy daughters fresh out of homeschooling with no marketable skills and whose parents were not necessarily financially stable.

I think JB's requirements for a husband for one of his daughters are much different than for a wife for a son.  He wants those girls to leave and cleave while he expects to provide a job and/or support to his sons and their families.

Exactly. 

[crazy8s]

24 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I think JB is trying to get the girls married off to guys who can support them, hence, the bigger leeway in who they marry.  Except for Jessa, all of the girls have married guys who either had a college degree and some decent job experience or a guy who is known for being hardworking and self supporting in the construction industry.  All of these guys also seemingly came from fairly solidly middle class families who could perhaps be expected to help them out if things got rough moneywise. Meanwhile, most of the guys, other than JD, married sheltered fundy daughters fresh out of homeschooling with no marketable skills and whose parents were not necessarily financially stable.

I think JB's requirements for a husband for one of his daughters are much different than for a wife for a son.  He wants those girls to leave and cleave while he expects to provide a job and/or support to his sons and their families.

he needs the sons to run his vast enterprise of auto auction, car sales, house flipping and whatever. no way is JB letting a SIL take a job from a duggar male.  heaven forbid he might have to actually pay them. surely Jackson and Tyler are the auto detailing crew now

 

 

[GeeGolly]

I see it so differently. I don't think JB has the brains to be that thoughtful, nor the power within his family and Fundy circle to orchestrate it all.  I do think he may be feeling a financial pinch, now, if he is actually paying the boys out of his investment money and not TLC money. I think JB would have been fine with any of the girls marrying Fundy boys like Austin, Chad Paine, Brandon Keilen or David Waller (or any others, these are the only ones I know). I also doubt any prospective family is looking to support their adult married children, which might be why the twins and Jason don't have prospects - because they don't seem to have steady jobs, other than TLC.

I think Justin likes Claire and Claire likes Justin. Simple as that. Too bad they're so young.

I also think JB would be the only Duggar to get an ego boost if he read this forum. IMHO, he wishes he was that smart, big and that powerful.

[Churchhoney]

23 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I think JB is trying to get the girls married off to guys who can support them, hence, the bigger leeway in who they marry.  Except for Jessa, all of the girls have married guys who either had a college degree and some decent job experience or a guy who is known for being hardworking and self supporting in the construction industry.  All of these guys also seemingly came from fairly solidly middle class families who could perhaps be expected to help them out if things got rough moneywise. Meanwhile, most of the guys, other than JD, married sheltered fundy daughters fresh out of homeschooling with no marketable skills and whose parents were not necessarily financially stable.

I think JB's requirements for a husband for one of his daughters are much different than for a wife for a son.  He wants those girls to leave and cleave while he expects to provide a job and/or support to his sons and their families.

I agree that this is certainly what he'd like and maybe what he still fully intends.

But I just don't see how the math works.

He's got 10 sons. So suppose they average a total of 4 kids apiece, and all the remaining daughters get married off to guys who have no need at all for any Duggar money. 

Allow 15 years for the Duggarling males to produce their average 4 kids (Josh has 6 already and Jackson will be old enough to have produced two or three by then), and that leaves JB's businesses, when he turns 70, supporting 63 people (counting himself, Meeechelle and Jana, and assuming that none of the girls, including Jessa,  wants any more handouts from the family.) 

Seems likely the show will have ended by then. But even if it hasn't, the network isn't going to be boosting their payment much if the ratings go on as they're going now, and there are certainly going to be more people claiming some of it. The Gothard money fountain isn't going to improve -- they keep selling off assets every year, and at some point they're not going to be able to sell any more off and still maintain their operation at all. So pay from Gothard-group dvds and live speeches will dry up. And right now JB can hand out Mary's estate piece by piece -- But that's not going to last for decades. He is saving on taxes, via the llcs. But that isn't really a money producer.

What I don't see that could make this work is any movement at all to make this an actual family company in which sons gradually take on real leadership roles so that they can actually take on the business as their father eases out of it -- and expand it because, hey, with more people to support you need more business. Now maybe that's all going on behind the scenes and all the sons are being groomed into positions that they'll magically jump into at some point.

But given what we see on the surface, maybe this isn't happening either.

So what happens with this family expectation when you have this large number of people in two generations who've never worked for anybody but dad and have no educations and have a bunch of children with no educations (some will have been taught -- through high school -- by Joy Forsyth and Kendra Caldwell...Will they be able to add?) and wives who've never worked at anything for anybody at all?

I just don't see how that's a viable life plan for the 21st century. Especially for people who think they're super-special and have champagne tastes to some degree.

So, to me, if JB and the boys aren't thinking about this and taking it into consideration in their life and marriage plans, they're either incredibly stupid or insane. Or both.

But maybe I'm missing something.

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Churchhoney

[crazy8s]

get your point @GeeGolly 

mike seewald surely pushed Bin into a young marriage as did Pa Keller with Anna, Derick approached JB,  the caldwells or swansons moved to be near the duggars, if i remember correctly.

I was thinking on the Duggar LLC shenanigans today. those without LLCs got a home or property through Mary.  Jessa, Joe, and Joy (through mary to JB/michelle trust to Joy/Austin)

the rest got an LLC Josh/anna,(6) Jana (1), JD (3), Jing/Jer (1), Josiah (1), JED!,(1) Jeer(6) Jason (1).  Not sure if James A, is the James listed as director on JED!'s

Jill and Derick got neither but apparently got the cash. Jing/Jer and Josiah's LLCs have gone non current. so maybe they also ended up with cash somehow as well since neither live in a JB owned house

[GeeGolly]

I don't think the purpose of the LLCs is to provide any Duggar adults with income. I think they're being used as tax loopholes. Reporting losses offsets the taxes on income, so less has to be paid. I'm thinking most of the LLCs are in name only, not actual viable businesses.

[crazy8s]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't think the purpose of the LLCs is to provide any Duggar adults with income. I think they're being used as tax loopholes. Reporting losses offsets the taxes on income, so less has to be paid. I'm thinking most of the LLCs are in name only, not actual viable businesses.

oh for sure - that's why I call it LLC shenanigans. Jeer's LLCs are surely leasing planes from duggar aviation, since 3 of the LLCs are Cessna tail numbers registered to Duggar Aviation LLC.  But JED!'s actually has a property in it. that little school house/church that has been shown. and Jana's tattoo parlor is in only her name

[ginger90]

In comments on Claire’s Instagram, someone stated they’ve been “ getting to know each other since spring of 2019.”.

Claire responded to a question asking if she still had braces. She said she got them off in June.

Exciting, I know! 🤣😂 Just sharing.

 

[Saylii]

16 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

No, they're in Tarrant County. I forget the town, but it was definitely confirmed as a suburb of Fort Worth. 

As for arranged marriages, I definitely think there were set ups like Jill/Derelict, Josiah/Lauren, Joe/Kendra, and Joy/Austin. I think Smuganna was about as arranged as we've seen so far, since I contend that Boob wanted Smuggar locked down and out of his hair. 

There’s a lot of suburbs of Fort Worth in Parker County.  There’s a Rob & Hilary Spivey who own property together in Parker County.

[madpsych78]

4 hours ago, Saylii said:

There’s a lot of suburbs of Fort Worth in Parker County.  There’s a Rob & Hilary Spivey who own property together in Parker County.

I was going to say. Parker County is just west of Tarrant County.

[emmawoodhouse]

I wish I could remember the town. Someone on FJ dug it up. They said it was in Tarrant County, and I (apparently stupidly) believed them.

[Saylii]

30 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I wish I could remember the town. Someone on FJ dug it up. They said it was in Tarrant County, and I (apparently stupidly) believed them.

Cresson?

[PikaScrewChu]

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I agree that this is certainly what he'd like and maybe what he still fully intends.

But I just don't see how the math works.

He's got 10 sons. So suppose they average a total of 4 kids apiece, and all the remaining daughters get married off to guys who have no need at all for any Duggar money. 

Allow 15 years for the Duggarling males to produce their average 4 kids (Josh has 6 already and Jackson will be old enough to have produced two or three by then), and that leaves JB's businesses, when he turns 70, supporting 63 people (counting himself, Meeechelle and Jana, and assuming that none of the girls, including Jessa,  wants any more handouts from the family.) 

Seems likely the show will have ended by then. But even if it hasn't, the network isn't going to be boosting their payment much if the ratings go on as they're going now, and there are certainly going to be more people claiming some of it. The Gothard money fountain isn't going to improve -- they keep selling off assets every year, and at some point they're not going to be able to sell any more off and still maintain their operation at all. So pay from Gothard-group dvds and live speeches will dry up. And right now JB can hand out Mary's estate piece by piece -- But that's not going to last for decades. He is saving on taxes, via the llcs. But that isn't really a money producer.

What I don't see that could make this work is any movement at all to make this an actual family company in which sons gradually take on real leadership roles so that they can actually take on the business as their father eases out of it. Now maybe that's all going on behind the scenes and all the sons are being groomed into positions that they'll magically jump into at some point.

But given what we see on the surface, maybe this isn't happening either.

So what happens with this family expectation when you have this large number of people in two generations who've never worked for anybody but dad and have no educations and have a bunch of children with no educations (some will have been taught -- through high school -- by Joy Forsyth and Kendra Caldwell...Will they be able to add?) and wives who've never worked at anything for anybody at all?

I just don't see how that's a viable life plan for the 21st century. Especially for people who think they're super-special and have champagne tastes to some degree.

So, to me, if JB and the boys aren't thinking about this and taking it into consideration in their life and marriage plans, they're either incredibly stupid or insane. Or both.

But maybe I'm missing something.

 

 

 

Jim Bob is less of a Vladimir Putin and more like a Kim Jong-un. Just happens to stumble into luck really. 

(Psssst, there are many fine documentaries on both historical figures Jim Bob. Your kids probably still think there is one Korea since you kept their education stuck in the 1950s)

[Sile]

On 9/28/2020 at 8:06 AM, Westiepeach said:

He is a child. A child.

So is she.  So odd to hear a teenager that's not even out of braces and fully developed talk about how she's such a lucky woman to have this man she will love forever.

Forever is a long, long time.  And it's even longer when you're their age.

[Vantraveller]

On 10/2/2020 at 5:48 AM, Churchhoney said:

 

Allow 15 years for the Duggarling males to produce their average 4 kids (Josh has 6 already and Jackson will be old enough to have produced two or three by then), and that leaves JB's businesses, when he turns 70, supporting 63 people (counting himself, Meeechelle and Jana, and assuming that none of the girls, including Jessa,  wants any more handouts from the family.) 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't JB have a shit ton of commercial properties that bring in rental dollars? As well as charging people to fly in his planes? And anything he makes flipping houses and doing who knows what else? He also dodges taxes so probably makes a heap of money. Let's assume $1,000,000 per year (am I being too generous?). Divide that by the 63 people and that's almost $16,000 each per year. For one of the sons with a partner and 4 kids that's close to $100 K per year. Not bad for doing nothing!

[Zella]

1 hour ago, AussiesRule said:

Doesn't JB have a shit ton of commercial properties that bring in rental dollars? As well as charging people to fly in his planes? And anything he makes flipping houses and doing who knows what else? He also dodges taxes so probably makes a heap of money. Let's assume $1,000,000 per year (am I being too generous?). Divide that by the 63 people and that's almost $16,000 each per year. For one of the sons with a partner and 4 kids that's close to $100 K per year. Not bad for doing nothing!

I don't think he divides it that evenly or equitably, though. 

[GeeGolly]

I thought JB had a piece of land he rents to a cell phone tower and an industrial park type thing he rents out and the rest was property he sits on and sells when its profitable. What other rental properties does he own? 

[crazy8s]

8 hours ago, AussiesRule said:

Doesn't JB have a shit ton of commercial properties that bring in rental dollars? As well as charging people to fly in his planes? And anything he makes flipping houses and doing who knows what else? He also dodges taxes so probably makes a heap of money. Let's assume $1,000,000 per year (am I being too generous?). Divide that by the 63 people and that's almost $16,000 each per year. For one of the sons with a partner and 4 kids that's close to $100 K per year. Not bad for doing nothing!

JB doesn't own that many rental properties. I think the warehouse in front of the TTH is mostly a JB storage area and the smuggar home (suite D)  JB and Michelle trusts own a lot of vacant land. he has the lease on 1 cell tower site. it is behind the property JD and Abbie live on. Last I checked, he had several properties for sale with Thomas Joseph for close to 2 million. the lot in front of the proposed Luxury RV park was up for sale for over a million.

JB seems to be more into the house flipping business than the rental business these days. JB co signed loans for Jason and James for their first fixer upper houses.

[Albanyguy]

I think the stories of JB’s wealth and business acumen are greatly exaggerated. While he has probably made a good chunk of money and salted it away, I don’t think it’s nearly as much as has been rumored and not nearly enough to support the whole clan indefinitely. He strikes me as being rather dumb in a “penny wise, pound foolish” kind of way and much too arrogant and conceited to take sensible advice from people who know more than he does. His “I’m smarter than everybody” attitude has probably lost him a lot of money over the years through hasty decisions and bad deals.

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, AussiesRule said:

Doesn't JB have a shit ton of commercial properties that bring in rental dollars? As well as charging people to fly in his planes? And anything he makes flipping houses and doing who knows what else? He also dodges taxes so probably makes a heap of money. Let's assume $1,000,000 per year (am I being too generous?). Divide that by the 63 people and that's almost $16,000 each per year. For one of the sons with a partner and 4 kids that's close to $100 K per year. Not bad for doing nothing!

I don't know for sure, but I haven't heard of him having a ton of rented-out commercial properties...That was his parents' business to some extent, but my impression is that that aspect of things really dwindled once JB became the sole chieftain.......Most of what I've heard of these days is properties he holds and tries to sell when the time is right, and many of those seem to be residential....

.And the people who fly in his planes seem to be either close friends like the Bateses -- who aren't rich - or people he sucks up to, so I doubt he'd be charging either enough to really earn a profit. I think it's more likely they pay their own costs for a trip -- which can be substantial -- plus a bit more, and that's it. I really think the planes are mostly an ego thing and a privacy/convenience for JB thing. Who's going to pay the going rate for charter flights to have an uneducated, largely unwashed, badly dressed Duggar boy fly you in a tiny refurbed plane that's maintained by a famous cheapskate? And if they don't pay the going rate for flights then the Duggs aren't making an actual profit from it.

I don't buy this Jim-Bob's-a-really-rich-man thing. There may be evidence out there proving it, but I'd have to see it before I believed it.

Even if he does have a whole lot of moneymakers I don't know about, though, I think that's irrelevant to my main point -- that it doesn't seem to me that he's really working with his sons to prepare them to take over major roles at a business and run it, which is what they'll need to do eventually if they plan to make their livings from the business all their lives. (or even if they plan to go out and get their first jobs elsewhere at age 40 or so after JB and his business die off)

Now of course it's possible that that's happening behind the scenes. But why would it be happening only behind the scenes? To really prepare them to run the business for the coming generation -- or go out on their own to start businesses or work in good positions for somebody else -- it seems to me they need to be seen as up-and-coming managerial members of the business sooner rather than later. And everything I see suggests that they're all basically errand boys. I don't think that leaves them in a good position to support a massive coming generation, if it is the case, which it seems to me to be.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Churchhoney

[crazy8s]

this is confusing to me as well, even when one of the boys has a skill/interest that could be useful to the enterprises JB has going, they are not set up to work in that area to bring in money.  Justin liking car mechanics, Joe having a realtor license etc. JB doesn't use that. instead Justin becomes a house flipper and Joe is shown working at least one day on JED!'s car lot. (kendra brought him lunch at the car lot on the show i think)

[GeeGolly]

17 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't know for sure, but I haven't heard of him having a ton of rented-out commercial properties...That was his parents' business to some extent, but my impression is that that aspect of things really dwindled once JB became the sole chieftain.......Most of what I've heard of these days is properties he holds and tries to sell when the time is right, and many of those seem to be residential....

.And the people who fly in his planes have often seemed to be either close friends like the Bateses -- who aren't rich - or people he sucks up to, so I doubt he'd be charging either enough to really earn a profit. I think it's more likely they pay their own costs for a trip -- which can be substantial -- plus a bit more, and that's it. I really think the planes are mostly an ego thing and a privacy/convenience for JB thing. Who's going to pay the going rate for charter flights to have an uneducated, largely unwashed, badly dressed Duggar boy fly you in a tiny refurbed plane that's maintained by a famous cheapskate? And if they don't pay the going rate for flights then the Duggs aren't making an actual profit from it.

I don't buy this Jim-Bob's-a-really-rich-man thing. There may be evidence out there proving it, but I'd have to see it before I believed it.

Even if he does have a whole lot of moneymakers I don't know about, though, I think that's irrelevant to my main point -- that it doesn't seem to me that he's really working with his sons to prepare them to take over major roles at a business and run it, which is what they'll need to do eventually if they plan to make their livings from the business all their lives. (or even if they plan to go out and get their first jobs elsewhere at age 40 or so after JB and his business die off)

Now of course it's possible that that's happening behind the scenes. But why would it be happening only behind the scenes? To really prepare them to run the business for the coming generation -- or go out on their own to start businesses or work in good positions for somebody else -- it seems to me they need to be seen as up-and-coming managerial member of the business sooner rather than later. And everything I see suggests that they're all basically errand boys. I don't think that leaves them in a good position to support a massive coming generation, if it is the case, which it seems to me to be.

I think JB plays in the shadiest part of the gray area, so I don't think he wants any of his legit business doings or his shady businesses out in the open.

My guess, and I'm really only guessing, is Joe has learned some business skills from JD and Jed! has learned some of the business maneuvering. Josiah and the rest sell cars, do renos, mow lawns and show up where their told.

[Churchhoney]

14 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think JB plays in the shadiest part of the gray area, so I don't think he wants any of his legit business doings or his shady businesses out in the open.

My guess, and I'm really only guessing, is Joe has learned some business skills from JD and Jed! has learned some of the business maneuvering. Josiah and the rest sell cars, do renos, mow lawns and show up where their told.

Yeah, this is pretty much my guess, too.

And it's not going to leave the "boys" well equipped for their next 60 years unless they start learning some other things elsewhere and get friendly with birth-control methods, too.

[Oldernowiser]

On 10/1/2020 at 12:48 PM, Churchhoney said:

So, to me, if JB and the boys aren't thinking about this and taking it into consideration in their life and marriage plans, they're either incredibly stupid or insane. Or both.

Hubris. They are assuming the Duggar Brand will be on teevee forever because they’re just that beloved.

[Zella]

I can look again when I'm on a laptop--my preferred research weapon--but when I looked earlier this year, JB did own some commercial properties that seemed to be leased by other people. One was a doughnut place, if I remember correctly They were all close together and on 412 in Springdale. 

[PikaScrewChu]

53 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Hubris. They are assuming the Duggar Brand will be on teevee forever because they’re just that beloved.

Exactly this and it provides a comfortable enough lifestyle for them. For now. The adults aren't living life like the Kardashians but they're sure better off than a lot of their fundie peers.

The problem is the younger ones from Joy on down had a relatively comfortable childhood compared to their older brothers and sisters. With the exception of Joy, those ones are in the most danger of ending up in dire financial straits compared to their older siblings. They're likely thinking Lolli and Pops had 19 kids, it wasn't so bad! They're the ones whose homeschooling was abysmal. No real direction in life. Etc.

Smuggar will always be taken care of financially, full stop. Same with Jana if she decides to not marry. If those two don't have trust funds set up for them I would be very surprised. Jill and Joy have married men who are self sufficient. Jessa and Jinger married men who could be self sufficient without the show if they wanted to be. JD could take his pilot's licence elsewhere. Joe and Josiah are wildcards but Joe does seem to have some hustle. 

The rest are very much in danger of ending up like JRod's clan. If the Lost Girls are married to men who are self sufficient it might be a different story but who knows at this point. They're still too young to entertain that thought. The M'Kids could very much be in danger of ending up near poverty as adults, unless Uncle Pecan comes through with some suitable matches. 

[DangerousMinds]

Some of these guys “could” be self sufficient, IF they had small families and small homes, etc.

[Zella]

I kept all of the Jim Bob properties I found in January on a color-coded Google Map. I realize that sounds creepy, but it is what it is. It's not updated, so information is current as of January 2020. 

There were several commercial properties. One is the Marshallese church that JD lives on. They have adjoining lots they also own. The lots are more recent purchases, but that church property has been owned by JB and Michelle since 1994. I think it's reasonable to assume that JB rents the property and is not letting the Marshallese use it out of the kindness of his heart. 

He also has 2 commercial properties on 412--this is a major thoroughfare through Northwest Arkansas--in Springdale. One is a doughnut place and the other is an Enterprise-Rent-A-Car. I assume those are rentals because I never remember anything about the Duggars even pretending to work at these businesses like they do their own car lots. He's had these about 10 years.

He has 2 other commercial properties north of 412 that are both car lots. The businesses there are not registered to any Duggars, so I don't think these are Duggar car lots. Jim Bob has also owned these for about 10 years. 

The rest of his property does seem to be residential stuff he is trying to flip. 

Several years ago he had snatched up a lot of properties that had belonged to other businesses in Siloam Springs (this is west of the Duggars and on the Oklahoma line, same town where John Brown University is). But it seems like he then transferred a lot of these to his children. I never saw any indication that any businesses were currently operating on them. 

So, as of at least early this year, I think it is reasonable to conclude that he does have some income from renting commercial properties. It might be enough to support even a normal-sized family well, but I doubt it would be enough to support all of them very well at all. 

 

[PikaScrewChu]

49 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Some of these guys “could” be self sufficient, IF they had small families and small homes, etc.

I don't see Josiah having a very large family, just because he and Lauren seem to barely put up with each other. They're also renting iirc and not the recipients of a JB and Meech house. He might be fine in the long run. I have $20 on Josiah and Lauren being the next two kicked to the curb. 

Joe and Kendra look on track to tie or break Meech's 19 pregnancies. That doesn't bode well for their future when the TeeVee money runs dry. 

I think the Howlers (minus Jed!) are being rushed to the altar for the sake of almighty TV ratings. I hate to repeat myself but they were too young to remember the days of food insecurity and "love offerings". I wouldn't be surprised if they try and emulate JB and Meech to have it horribly backfire.

The only saving grace for Justin here is Claire is one of 6. She may not be all that eager to get to the double digits (or able to).

[awaken]

5 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't know for sure, but I haven't heard of him having a ton of rented-out commercial properties...That was his parents' business to some extent, but my impression is that that aspect of things really dwindled once JB became the sole chieftain.......Most of what I've heard of these days is properties he holds and tries to sell when the time is right, and many of those seem to be residential....

.And the people who fly in his planes seem to be either close friends like the Bateses -- who aren't rich - or people he sucks up to, so I doubt he'd be charging either enough to really earn a profit. I think it's more likely they pay their own costs for a trip -- which can be substantial -- plus a bit more, and that's it. I really think the planes are mostly an ego thing and a privacy/convenience for JB thing. Who's going to pay the going rate for charter flights to have an uneducated, largely unwashed, badly dressed Duggar boy fly you in a tiny refurbed plane that's maintained by a famous cheapskate? And if they don't pay the going rate for flights then the Duggs aren't making an actual profit from it.

I don't buy this Jim-Bob's-a-really-rich-man thing. There may be evidence out there proving it, but I'd have to see it before I believed it.

Even if he does have a whole lot of moneymakers I don't know about, though, I think that's irrelevant to my main point -- that it doesn't seem to me that he's really working with his sons to prepare them to take over major roles at a business and run it, which is what they'll need to do eventually if they plan to make their livings from the business all their lives. (or even if they plan to go out and get their first jobs elsewhere at age 40 or so after JB and his business die off)

Now of course it's possible that that's happening behind the scenes. But why would it be happening only behind the scenes? To really prepare them to run the business for the coming generation -- or go out on their own to start businesses or work in good positions for somebody else -- it seems to me they need to be seen as up-and-coming managerial members of the business sooner rather than later. And everything I see suggests that they're all basically errand boys. I don't think that leaves them in a good position to support a massive coming generation, if it is the case, which it seems to me to be.

 

 

“Largely unwashed”!  Love it!  😂

[Heathen]

47 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

The only saving grace for Justin here is Claire is one of 6. She may not be all that eager to get to the double digits (or able to).

IIRC, Claire's siblings are well spaced out, too (not in the pothead sense, although that would be funny). I think most of them were at least two and a half years apart if not more. Hopefully, Claire inherited her mother's relative, for fundies, lack of fertility. 

I agree the younger D kids who don't remember life before TV money might be in for a rude awakening someday. 

[GeeGolly]

Did Kendra say she was having difficulty nursing? As we all know, for some women nursing suppresses ovulation, so if she's having difficulty nursing that may play a part in her becoming pregnant so quickly.

Here's hoping Claire makes it through 2021 without a newborn. It'll be close, if they marry in February she could have a baby by Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Edited October 3, 2020 by GeeGolly

[emmawoodhouse]

Kendra said she had trouble with Garrett latching, but Addison was nursing fine. 

[Portia]

On 9/30/2020 at 8:01 PM, Oldernowiser said:

When I was sixteen I had a crush on my first cousin. Hell, I didn’t know. I was a kid. He was handsome.

Point is, kids shouldn’t “court.”

I'm 56, and I still have a crush on my cousin Bob. Hell, we all do, my brother included.

[MsJamieDornan]

On 10/2/2020 at 11:26 PM, AussiesRule said:

Let's assume $1,000,000 per year (am I being too generous?).

Way too generous.

[satrunrose]

Honestly, I doubt the Boob is any less than 100% confident in the future success of his boys. 

His (assumed) point of view:

He has a lot of different ventures (car lots, house flipping, tow truck, aviation, real estate, rental properties) that have served him well. His gaggle of boys (did you know he's the father of MANY boys?) have been taught (at the knee of the great patriarch JimBob) how to work all of the businesses. When he's gone, the boys will easily pick up where he left off (because he's just that awesome) and continue to be fruitful and multiply as the good Lord intended.

What we see:

-these boys have 0 drive. It was literally beaten out of them as babies. To have drive you have to be willing to think outside the box at least a little. That's the antithesis of blanket training. 

- The tv show has probably killed their hustle, because they've learned that all you need to do to make money is sell your soul to TLC.

- Because of points 1 and 2, the total lack of formal post-secondary training and the way the boys keep trading jobs as it suits...someone... they're jacks of all trades, masters of none. People with the kind of budget that will help the boys pay for their own mega-families are going to want people with diplomas and licences, not SODRT and observation.

- Heck, if JB's paying the rent or mortgage and giving them some sort of living stipend from the TLC money, they probably don't even have the budgeting skills that JBM had before the TLC windfall. 

- JB, in the days before TLC and maybe even now, needed all of these jobs to keep the family a float. Justin (for example) is probably going to have to pay for his own mega family on the income from just one or two. 

In short, Run Justin!!! (And detour through trade school or something as you get the hell out of dodge). 

[Genevrier]

I don’t quite understand why they don’t go to trade schools. They might be taught a skill by some ungodly person, so their skill wouldn’t be godly? They might accidentally have sex with their fellow students? Oh, never mind-I just realized what the problem is. They might make friends, or friends, outside the cult. Seems like JB has very little faith in his children’s faith. 

[ozziemom]

2 hours ago, satrunrose said:

Honestly, I doubt the Boob is any less than 100% confident in the future success of his boys. 

His (assumed) point of view:

He has a lot of different ventures (car lots, house flipping, tow truck, aviation, real estate, rental properties) that have served him well. His gaggle of boys (did you know he's the father of MANY boys?) have been taught (at the knee of the great patriarch JimBob) how to work all of the businesses. When he's gone, the boys will easily pick up where he left off (because he's just that awesome) and continue to be fruitful and multiply as the good Lord intended.

What we see:

-these boys have 0 drive. It was literally beaten out of them as babies. To have drive you have to be willing to think outside the box at least a little. That's the antithesis of blanket training. 

- The tv show has probably killed their hustle, because they've learned that all you need to do to make money is sell your soul to TLC.

- Because of points 1 and 2, the total lack of formal post-secondary training and the way the boys keep trading jobs as it suits...someone... they're jacks of all trades, masters of none. People with the kind of budget that will help the boys pay for their own mega-families are going to want people with diplomas and licences, not SODRT and observation.

- Heck, if JB's paying the rent or mortgage and giving them some sort of living stipend from the TLC money, they probably don't even have the budgeting skills that JBM had before the TLC windfall. 

- JB, in the days before TLC and maybe even now, needed all of these jobs to keep the family a float. Justin (for example) is probably going to have to pay for his own mega family on the income from just one or two. 

In short, Run Justin!!! (And detour through trade school or something as you get the hell out of dodge). 

Plus god looks at JimBoob as the most special person ever, so as long as the Duggar boys follow JimBoob, they will be rewarded too. Or something like that.

[Albanyguy]

Although he would hotly deny it, I honestly don't think Jim Bob gives a crap what happens to his kids after he's gone. Like most narcissists, he sees his children as an extension of himself. They have no reality for him as real, actual individuals. When he ceases to exist, they also will cease to exist.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

Although he would hotly deny it, I honestly don't think Jim Bob gives a crap what happens to his kids after he's gone. Like most narcissists, he sees his children as an extension of himself. They have no reality for him as real, actual individuals. When he ceases to exist, they also will cease to exist.

I don't think he does either. It wouldn't surprise me if Joshley is named executor in Boob's will and he takes off with all the money after his parents die. 

[MonicaM]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I don't think he does either. It wouldn't surprise me if Joshley is named executor in Boob's will and he takes off with all the money after his parents die. 

At the same time, he'll divorce his wife.  Good luck getting money from him, Anna!!