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Season 1 & 2 Discussion

Avabelle

By Avabelle
in Ted Lasso

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Message added by Whimsy,

This thread is now locked.  There are individual episode threads where you can take the discussion.  Feel free to quote a post from this thread and carry it over to the episode thread to continue discussions. 

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KittenPokerCheater

KittenPokerCheater

If we actually get to see the version of Roy Kent's 2 minute long retirement speech, I will burn this pub to the ground...I will knock over a chair...I will channel my raging enthusiasm into ways to help my community.

Or something.

https://www.indiewire.com/video/ted-lasso-brett-goldstein-roy-kent-retirement-speech-tv-podcast-interview-1234660427/

 

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AstaCharles
AstaCharles

Cast in other roles: They're Here. They're There. They're Every F***kin Where.

Crs97
Crs97

I assume you mean you will channel your righteous anger into ways to serve your community.

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mledawn

mledawn

(edited)
Quote

I agree. I don't think it's fair to think that Beard should automatically know what's wrong with Ted when Ted doesn't even know. I think the panic attacks are new since he's moved to London and divorced his wife. 

Beard does know, though. Ted makes a comment in the Diamond Dogs episode where he says he's gone from having a mental breakdown at a karaoke bar to sleeping with Rebecca's friend. Also when Ted first arrived, as another poster mentions, he flexes his hands and Beard gently tells him to relax. But, I think it's fair to say Beard doesn't know it's happening right *there*.

 

Edited by mledawn
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MsNewsradio

MsNewsradio

1 hour ago, mledawn said:

Beard does know, though. Ted makes a comment in the Diamond Dogs episode where he says he's gone from having a mental breakdown at a karaoke bar to sleeping with Rebecca's friend. Also when Ted first arrived, as another poster mentions, he flexes his hands and Beard gently tells him to relax. But, I think it's fair to say Beard doesn't know it's happening right *there*.

 

We aren't sure of the context of what Beard was told, though. If Beard thinks that Ted's reaction at the karaoke bar was specific to the event of him signing the divorce papers and finalizing his divorce, he may not realize that it's a more constant underlying issue. And while he did notice Ted's hands at the start of Season 1, he could have chalked that up to the "first day of school" jitters/excitement the two of them mentioned prior to showing up at practice that day. 

 

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FnkyChkn34

FnkyChkn34

I still maintain that Beard doesn't know the full extent of Ted's panic attacks, *but* Beard did say that he would check on him on his way home. The show ended before we know if he did that or not, so we can't blame Beard here for everything. Plus Ted said it was an upset stomach, so at first you do have to take a person at his word. 

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mledawn

mledawn

(edited)
1 hour ago, MsNewsradio said:

We aren't sure of the context of what Beard was told, though. If Beard thinks that Ted's reaction at the karaoke bar was specific to the event of him signing the divorce papers and finalizing his divorce, he may not realize that it's a more constant underlying issue. And while he did notice Ted's hands at the start of Season 1, he could have chalked that up to the "first day of school" jitters/excitement the two of them mentioned prior to showing up at practice that day. 

 

Oh, I agree - I meant Beard knows *something* is up. I'm not sure Ted himself yet understands the extent to which it is a bigger issue.

Edited by mledawn
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Cornhusker12

Cornhusker12

On 8/24/2021 at 1:55 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

I missed a lot of posts on this thread, but I'm not sure why everyone thinks the show is going to take a super dark turn? It's darker than season 1, but it's still a comedy after all. I can't see them going too much further down that hole. 

Yeah it's kind of interesting to read through the last several pages of people expecting dark turns, deaths, deep dives into who knew what/when. In my opinion season 2 has taken a huge step AWAY from plot and the contrasts between characters, to the point that I feel like every character is borderline saccharine at all times. I guess if you squint enough you can think the characters themselves are all just 'acting' in order to hide their true anguish, but this just doesn't seem like the type of show to go that route.

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Cornhusker12

Cornhusker12

25 minutes ago, LADreamr said:

The speculation may be from Ted's (foreshadowing?) comment about fairy tales not starting or ending in a dark forest, but that getting through one is always part of the story.

Right, if that quote was in a Breaking Bad episode or something I could imagine it foreshadowing death or suicide, but in Ted Lasso it's far more likely to be about the bakery running out of biscuits. I would love an injection of some stakes, but I just can't understand why anyone would presume that something actually dark is going to happen. Especially since the show has gotten even FURTHER into sunshine and rainbows in season 2. Maybe I'm being set up for the biggest rope-a-dope of all time though haha

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LADreamr

LADreamr

Well, yeah, most things aren't as dark as Breaking Bad, but can still have relatively dark moments.  Panic attacks, divorce, and humiliation from asshole exes isn't bakery shortages.  This show is tonally similar to Scrubs, and it had plenty of its own darkness.

Also, this show has a three-season arc, and this being season two (Act II), this is where most of the complications would show up.

I could be completely wrong, too, though.

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Domestic Assassin

Domestic Assassin

(edited)

Just in case pre-season interviews are considered spoilers:

Spoiler

Jason Sudeikis was describing the season as The Empire Strikes Back season in preseason interviews. Also, some of the season reviews and interviews with some cast members hinted it would be getting darker. The question is what exactly "darker" means.

 

Edited by Domestic Assassin
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AngieBee1

AngieBee1

(edited)

I think this season is dealing with reckoning of ones' self but I do not see it taking a dark turn at all. That would be such a huge departure from what the show is.  

For example in the Brett Goldstein Indiewire posted up-thread and he pointed out some things that went over my head; especially in regards to Nate. He says Nate has always had that mean streak in him - pointing out when Nate yelled at Ted and Beard before realizing who they were and how he had his take down for all the players at the ready. He's someone who has just never felt emboldened enough to show that nasty streak in himself.  Goldstein also pointed out his self-loathing (spitting at himself in the mirror). 

So I think as some people are showing more of their true selves: Yes, Roy has always been gruff but we knew in S1 he had a soft interior the way he stuck up for Nate and his interactions with Phoebe.  Jamie was a selfish, arrogant player, but we knew he was willing  to change and we're seeing proof of that this season. Meanwhile, Nate is showing the less kind side of himself and Ted is showing the side of him that isn't able to bounce back quickly with a quip; someone who struggles.

Edited by AngieBee1
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AngieBee1

AngieBee1

Nate needs to be struck off.  This was one situation where Beard's zen like demeanor realy annoyed me.  He should have went harder on Nate.  And all this talk in the thread about something dark happening I really worried that Colin would try to kill himself.  Glad that wasn't the case.  

As usual the show is wonderful in dealing with relationships in a mature way and not dragging drama out.

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pennben

pennben

Nate was an ass. Ted was an ass until he wasn’t.  Roy was an ass until he wasn’t. I don’t like Nate now, but need to remind myself that just like the other protagonists from S1, perhaps there is room for him to grow.  Or, he doesn’t grow and stays an ass.  Time will tell.  For now, he’s in the dark forest, if you will.  Glad he got called out, pathetic that he chose to be bully to person under him. 
 

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Schweedie

Schweedie

Well, that wasn't very funny. The dark forest period is well and truly underway, it seems. I hate not liking Nate - he seemed so genuinely gentle and kind in the first season, but I guess all he needed was a self esteem boost for his uglier side to come out. He got confident enough to start bashing the people considered 'above' him and when Beard took him down a notch he just went back to taking everything out on the one person he considers below him. He needs some time with doctor Sharon to work out his issues as badly as Ted does, and I hope he gets it before the season is over. And I hope he gets it before he ends up causing some real, lasting hurt - I know this show is a heartwarming comedy, but I too was worried Colin would end up doing something bad. Now I'm worried about Will.

I did love Jamie unwittingly making Roy realise what he'd been doing to mess up Keeley. He was so confused.

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DEL901

DEL901

(edited)

Nate really is in a bad way.  All the praise inflated his ego but did nothing for his self esteem. He still feels defined by his father’s contempt.  I have a feeling something bad is going to happen to the young fellow Nate is abusing to feel better about himself.  Nate hasn’t hit rock bottom which would be acknowledging he has a problem.  And I’m sure, even though he apologized publicly, internally he is seething at the reprimand from coach Beard as shown by his ramped up abuse of the young guy  

As for Ted, I think he always knew something was wrong and devoted himself to hiding his inner breakage.   Nice to see he may be ready to begin facing things.  As for Roy…he thought he was being a good boyfriend and when he had his lightbulb moment thanks to Jamie of all people, he made amends AND resolved to improve.  He is a grownup who isn’t afraid to “be coached”. 
 

edited because noun pronoun agreement is good

Edited by DEL901
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MissLucas

MissLucas

(edited)

That was more somber than usual but I liked it - it's an intriguing take on the dark forest. Tiny bits and pieces but no big drama (so far), yet still unsettling.

I was expecting to see 'We've never been so connected, yet never further apart' show up on Rebecca's bantr, making her suspect who she's talking to. I guess that's still coming and I do hope it's Rebecca who realizes what's going on - the other way around the whole team would know (damn it Sam, keep that private).

The episode went a long way to show us what's going on with Nate and why. A lifetime of being on his Dad's dismissive radar has left him so insecure that one less than enthusiastic comment on his social media wipes out all the validation he got from dozens of positive ones plus all the raving headlines. Not an excuse - just an explanation. He's being an ass and he's also being a dumbass for lacking the introspection to see what's going on. What's wrong with him can't be fixed by Coach Beard - especially not with Beard showing up as an avatar for his Dad with his cool dismissal (well played show). It's frustrating but such deeply imbedded patterns withstand a quick fix. The Doc is right 'The truth will set you free. But first it'll piss you off.' That applied also to Roy and Keeley's subplot - which was easier to fix because those two are emotionally more secure than Ted or Nate.

What was up with that box on Nate's chair in his parents kitchen? Was that something his mother had made for him (and he never looked inside) or was it something he had made as a kid and she kept it and placed it there for him as a reminder of something? Either way I hope we get an explanation - best served with Mum getting more lines than she has so far. She's one of the most underwritten characters. I suspect that's going to change soon.

I loved Higgins all of a sudden getting his pipe out in the boot room - it was a hilarious detail that never got addressed which made it even funnier.

 

Edited by MissLucas
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LADreamr

LADreamr

I think the box on Nate the Berate's chair at his parents' house was the one he made to collect money for Sam's birthday in S1, wasn't it?  It had the face on the side, and you put the money in its mouth?  A flashback to before his journey to higher self-esteem (and then quantum leap to full-on dickery) began?

This wasn't one of my favorites, because a lot of it felt like filler, and it's not like this show to do that.  Although Ted spending 20 minutes trying to get comfortable on the couch, just for Doc Sharon to say, maybe you should sit, was kind of funny.  Looking forward to him letting down these defenses and getting real with her.

Nate the Irate is very insightful into other people, but blind about himself.  That's a very human condition, and he definitely got to where he is organically, but still.  What a dick.

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mledawn

mledawn

This stuff with letting Nate be a chuntbag to certain Richmond people doesn't make sense. Ted prides himself on helping his team become good people - he has personally witnessed Nate be a jerk to Will on more than one occasion and didn't say anything. Finally Beard says something to Nate about how he handled Colin, but says nothing about his interaction with Will. That's a garbage move on Beard.

The rest of Nate's behaviour is being anvilled on us and I'm not here for it. 

What I am here for is Roy fucking Kent being a fucking champ.

I'm also here for Ted finally settling in with Dr Sharon and making me cry.

But Nate and his storyline can take a long walk off a short pier.

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Traveller519

Traveller519

With respect to Nate's character arc, I think we all need to "[remain] curious, not judgmental."

We know the tenor of the show. Outside of Rupert, there's really no one that can be completely wrote off. I saw Nate approaching Will at the end of the episode as similar to Rebecca's walking out on the team after the sacrifice in Season 1, Episode 6. Right as we think we're turning the corner, we're dragged back on some of the character's worst impulses.

Continuing with the Season's thematic through-line of Ted being somewhat ineffectual as he battles with his own Mental health, while elevating the stories of the other characters, it will be interesting to see how the show chooses to address Nate's required change. There are interesting avenues it can be pursued with Roy, Beard, Rebecca, or even Higgins.

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MerBearStare

MerBearStare

(edited)

Even though this episode was the most serious of the season, it still had several laugh out loud moments:

  • Roy walking in on people talking about him twice and not caring that they were talking about him
  • Higgins and Rebecca scatting when Roy walked in
  • The team being invested in Sam's bantr DMs
  • Colin asking "Pedophiles?" when Nate mentioned Picasso and Gauguin
  • Coach Beard surprising Nate first thing in the morning (wearing the hat Jane gave him) and then disappearing
  • Roy shouting "Whistle!" and explaining "My lips are sensitive to impure metals and whistles give me mouth hives!"

I agree with @Traveller519 that Nate being an asshole right now doesn't mean he will remain an asshole. I think it was in this thread that someone posted a NY Times interview with Nick Mohammed. In the interview, he mentioned how Jason talked about how when he was on SNL, when a cast member would really breakout, sometimes, but not always, they would change, get a bigger ego, get a little more cocky, and that's what his current storyline is based on. But with Nate it's worse because he's getting a big head, but he also still has those self-esteem issues from his withholding father and being bullied (I imagine the team bullying him at the start of S1 wasn't his first experience with bullying). 

I liked that Dr. Sharon didn't let Ted get away with the shitty things he said about her and her profession. He obviously said those things because he's scared and has been burned by therapy before, but that doesn't excuse being terribly rude. It reminds me of this Am I the Asshole? Reddit thread from around mother's day where this guy was dating a rich girl. His girlfriend's mom passed away when she was really young, so he asked her what she was going to do for mother's day. She said she was going to visit one of her nannies from when she was a kid. I don't remember how the conversation led to this, but he basically told her that the nanny only loved her because she was paid to love her, which obviously isn't true (and fortunately she broke up with him). People can care about others, but they still have bills to pay. One doesn't negate the other.

Edited by MerBearStare
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mledawn

mledawn

1 hour ago, MerBearStare said:
  • Roy walking in on people talking about him twice and not caring that they were talking about him

I loved that he only got upset once he learned specifically what they were talking about. But then, typical Roy he just worked through it.

Have plastic whistles not made it to UK football yet? They were using the Fox40 when I was a kid! Get the plastic whistle, Roy (or the silicone whistle cover - there are options)!!

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Gwendolyn

Gwendolyn

Random before this show ends I want a Roy and Keely wedding. these two like Higgins and Mrs Higgins have such a beautiful relationship. Their argument was legit and the type of issue couples have, they are not allowed to break up. I also liked when Roy got insight from Jamie, of all people, that Keely just wanted space he apologized and gave her what she needed.

I wasn't sure about Dr. Sharon at first, but she's actually really good. I like how she waited Ted and his antics out. She's had an idea this was coming (though I think him hiding in her office after the panic attack was a surprise to her), but she's good at her job and knew Ted would eventually settle and talk to her. I like that, that similar to the players we didn't see Ted's real therapy session.

How long before Trent Crimm, the Independent, realizes Ted had a panic attack and not GI issues?

Nate is leaning towards the dark side and while I think Beard and Ted have seen some of his interactions with Will, it's not been anything so big they feel the need to step in. From how Beard handled the Colin situation (and I don't think it's because Colin is a player and Will is just the kit boy, it's that he saw/heard the entire exchange), if he or Ted saw what Nate did in the last scene they would have acted.

With the Beard/Jane situation, and how Ted got Roy to handle Jamie letting Colin and Issac bullying Nate, we know Ted makes a conscious choice to be hands off sometimes and he may be doing that with Nate and Will. As well as trying to hold himself together, but it will come to a head soon. Either Will will quit or Nate will be caught by someone (Higgins and his rotating desk is likely candidate as we've already seen that he's well placed to overhear things others think are private).

Amusing coincidence that the new coaches have whistle issues. Ted replaced Nate's as he kept blowing it inside and Roy just says "Whistle" because as quoted above his issue with metals (someone get him a plastic whistle!).

 

 

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juno

juno

Nate has a really good head for football, understands it and understands the x's and o's of the game. Nate unfortunately cannot manage the players. He doesn't know how to speak to players or even the employees at the club. Ted is failing him as his manager if he cannot see this and work on this.

Nate should be in analytics, in a booth at the game communicating only to Ted. Nate should not be talking to staff or the players. This is a professional league and a professional club. HR abuses would get him fired.

By showing this dark arc in the story they have moved me to not caring about him at all and hoping that he gets fired and they can move on. People that talk to junior employees like that are seriously garbage and it is throwing a wet blanket on season 2.

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twoods

twoods

Awww I was all for this episode until Nate blew up at poor Will and treated him like trash. This is not why I love this show! I know it’s to show how insecure he is especially with how his asshole father treats him, but he better get called out for his shitty behavior towards Will because that’s not cool at all. 
 

Dr Sharon and Ted continue to be wonderful. I’m glad she discussed how upset she was with disrespecting her profession. 
 

I am loving how the team knows about Sam’s mystery woman, which means someone will find out it’s Rebecca before they meet. Talk about embarrassing.

Roy and Keely continue to be the healthiest relationship on TV. She was so panicked when she thought he was leaving her that it made me cry. It was nice they hit a speed bump but were able to get through it maturely.

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AllyB

AllyB

I think part of the problem with Nate's storyline for me is that the actor is in his early 40s. I don't know how old Nate is meant to be but I'm watching a near middle-aged man bully a kid nearly half his age. That would just about be potentially redeemable if he was still in his 20s himself. But if a man in his 40s hasn't learned to deal with his own insecurities enough to not take them out on the person he perceives as having the lowest rank, then he's just abusive. I see how he treats Will and I fear for any woman who becomes his wife. Because whatever happens at the club in future episodes to eventually make Nate stop bullying Will. (As I assume will happen.) That's only going to happen because he has supervisors who will eventually call a halt to his behaviour. If he ever finds a woman to love him and live with him, there will be no such oversight. He's honestly irredeemable to me as a person, even if he becomes a great coach.

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Schweedie

Schweedie

1 hour ago, AllyB said:

I think part of the problem with Nate's storyline for me is that the actor is in his early 40s. I don't know how old Nate is meant to be but I'm watching a near middle-aged man bully a kid nearly half his age. That would just about be potentially redeemable if he was still in his 20s himself.

Yeah, I said it earlier and I'll say it again - the actor has aged a lot in between seasons. Last season I absolutely thought Nate could've been in his mid- to late 20s (I've never seen Nick Mohammad in anything so knew nothing about him or how old he is), but this season he looks much closer to the actor's age, and that makes this storyline more uncomfortable to watch. Nate's definitely not irredeemable to me yet, but he needs to sort this out, preferably with the doctor.

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Trillium

Trillium

(edited)

I thought Ted’s feelings about therapy were quite realistic. Obviously marriage counseling did not give him a positive experience and he’s never had to really face his issues. But Sharon wasn’t afraid to call him out on it and to his credit, he admitted he was wrong. I can’t wait for him to get into it.

Nate…yeah we’re obviously not supposed to like him right now. I don’t think he’s irredeemable, he’ll find his way out of the woods. This is a show that made me feel bad for Jamie Fucking Tartt. If they can do that, there’s hope for Nate as well.

Roy and Keely are the best. I found her watching SATC funny because that scene in particular is basically the opposite of their relationship. They are perfect, and I will burn this forum to the ground if we don’t get a wedding. 
 

 

Edited by Trillium
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carrier76

carrier76

1 hour ago, Trillium said:

I thought Ted’s feelings about therapy were quite realistic. Obviously marriage counseling did not give him a positive experience and he’s never had to really face his issues. But Sharon wasn’t afraid to call him out on it and to his credit, he admitted he was wrong. I can’t wait for him to get into it.

Nate…yeah we’re obviously not supposed to like him right now. I don’t think he’s irredeemable, he’ll find his way out of the woods. This is a show that made me feel bad for Jamie Fucking Tartt. If they can do that, there’s hope for Nate as well.

Roy and Keely are the best. I found her watching SATC funny because that scene in particular is basically the opposite of their relationship. They are perfect, and I will burn this forum to the ground if we don’t get a wedding. 
 

 

I am a complete SATC-head myself, and it did not escape my attention that the ep they were watching also ended with the song “By Your Side” by Sade. Carrie tells Aiden she needs some time to herself when she gets home, and while she’s weirdly spending 30 seconds by herself in a separate space, that is the song playing. Clever for this show to have that as the soundtrack when Roy gives Keeley her moment. Except that Carrie and Aiden were awful and Roy and Keeley are 😍.

 

Between this reference and the Queen deep cut that ended episode 2, I feel like someone I know is scoring this show. Ha.

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LADreamr

LADreamr

7 hours ago, AllyB said:

But if a man in his 40s hasn't learned to deal with his own insecurities enough to not take them out on the person he perceives as having the lowest rank, then he's just abusive. 

I agree he should be doing better, but emotional maturity doesn't go along automatically with chronological aging.  If his parents have been emotionally infantilizing him, or limiting his emotional growth by squashing his spirit, it's something he's going to have to actively and consciously work on.

I don't like where he is right now, either, and I hope they work him through it, but a lot of it makes sense, and I can see where someone could end up where he is, given his journey up till now.   

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Maysie

Maysie

I’m kind of ambivalent about Nate. On one hand, he is obviously old enough to be more self aware and take responsibility for his actions, including bullying a subordinate. On the other hand, I think we’re looking at a case of arrested development here. In the show, he’s probably at least 30. He was basically a step above a towel boy, doesn’t appear to have had any kind of romantic relationship, or even apparent friendships, and hell, Ted had to see to it that he had an actual suit in season one, as opposed to wearing his dad’s suit. So he’s a man child (not just a wonder kid!). However, he is not mentally disabled, and despite the fact that his parents appear to suck, he really should understand the ramifications of bullying, given he was bullied himself for so long. Basically, he’s intelligent enough to know right from wrong and we see what he’s choosing, which makes him a dick IMO.

I can’t imagine what it would be like to be so young and invested in social media, so I was hyper annoyed at Nate for the constant monitoring of his story online. I thought it was interesting how he engaged in revisionist history claiming to have said “wonderkind” when there’s actual evidence to the contrary. That tells me that he’s pretty comfortable with his self-lying to make himself feel better about his choices and behavior, which though human, is immature at a certain point.

I imagine the show is going to set us up for Nate’s redemption at some point. I hope that it’s not via Ted or Doc because they can’t be the cure all for everything. I hope what they’re going for is that we can learn and grow from the people and environment we’re in, and that no one person or thing can fix it, but I takes an open heart and open mind to do so. Ted and Doc can’t be the magical fix it people on the show; it would be saccharine and unbelievable.

 I rewatched the first season recently and there was a lot of small, kind of off the cuff interaction between Rebecca and Sam throughout the season. My gut tells me they aren’t necessarily going to be a romantic partnership but I think they may have a big impact on each other’s lives. Not everything has to have a romantic endgame. And perhaps this is how Rebecca discovers what she’s really looking for in a relationship and that she may find it outside of her normal parameters.

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Crs97

Crs97

35 minutes ago, Maysie said:

despite the fact that his parents appear to suck, he really should understand the ramifications of bullying, given he was bullied himself for so long.

But isn’t that the whole cycle of abuse?  Nate does what he knows.  I trust the writers to bring about his redemption if they want to.  I am impressed that everyone (but Rupert) seems to have a journey on this show, and so far they have felt organic.

I am also hoping for a platonic relationship between Rebecca and Sam.  Just because you share interests doesn’t mean you should be a couple.

I love Ted’s sessions with Doc.  She was not a favorite for me when first introduced; I didn’t like her seemingly “curing” Danny so quickly and her antipathy toward Ted, but she has grown on me.

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Fostersmom

Fostersmom

On 8/31/2021 at 7:19 PM, SnarkShark said:

You know, at this point I don't particularly care what Coach Beard's first name is.  I'm more curious what his life would have been like if he'd decided to be a clean shaven man with that name. 

I watched the first season and the first few episodes of this season thinking that was just his nickname HERE! LOL! Somehow I missed that Coach Beard was the actual character's name. 

On 9/3/2021 at 2:41 AM, AngieBee1 said:

Nate needs to be struck off.  This was one situation where Beard's zen like demeanor realy annoyed me.  He should have went harder on Nate.  And all this talk in the thread about something dark happening I really worried that Colin would try to kill himself.  Glad that wasn't the case.  

I thought the same thing about Colin too. But now I'm worried about the new kit boy. I mean, I'm hoping he just shut the door to smoke in the boot room, but I didn't like the door closing at all. 

 

  • Love 3
Kostgard

Kostgard

On 9/3/2021 at 12:31 PM, MerBearStare said:

 

I agree with @Traveller519 that Nate being an asshole right now doesn't mean he will remain an asshole. I think it was in this thread that someone posted a NY Times interview with Nick Mohammed. In the interview, he mentioned how Jason talked about how when he was on SNL, when a cast member would really breakout, sometimes, but not always, they would change, get a bigger ego, get a little more cocky, and that's what his current storyline is based on. But with Nate it's worse because he's getting a big head, but he also still has those self-esteem issues from his withholding father and being bullied (I imagine the team bullying him at the start of S1 wasn't his first experience with bullying). 

That’s interesting that he’s basing it on SNL players making it big, and reminds me of something Bill Murray once said - he said that it’s pretty typical to become an asshole when you first start to hit it big, and that’s fine and normal, but it has to wear off. Murray said that basically you can have two years to be an asshole, but if you don’t check yourself and stop that behavior after two years, it will probably become a permanent condition.

So, yes - someone needs to help Nate nip this behavior in the bud, pronto. But I feel like something is going to come to a head for Nate to get a reality check. If he’s lucky, it will be a gentle check from someone like Jamie, who can identify because he also has a father he can never please, and he’s learning that being an asshole isn’t actually all that rewarding and you’ll end up alone. Or it can be a super-harsh wake up call from someone like Roy, who probably would have murdered Nate on the spot if he had witnessed what he said to Will. Or it could be heartbreaking - like if it’s Ted, Nate’s surrogate “good” dad who has done the things a “good” dad should do (encouraged him, gave him advice, made him take risks, helped him buy his first suit, etc) who is the one who witnesses this or Will tells him what happened, because realistically, someone doing something like that in the workplace? Basically threatening someone? Is not cool and H.R. Pufnstuf would say that at the very least Nate would need to be formally disciplined, if not straight up fired or demoted. Nate is harassing an employee he outranks and there are laws against this kind of thing.

As for the issue of Nick Mohammad’s age, I think that is the point. Or at least part of the point. Severe self-esteem issues can lead to a sort of arrested development, because you don’t have the confidence to go out there and live life and make mistakes and learn from them and gain that maturity. Nate has obviously been living some sort of half life, where he wasn’t hitting the typical milestones (that’s not a bad thing in itself, everyone moves at their own pace and it’s fine if they are content. But Nate has clearly been craving a different existence for a long time). As others have pointed out, he was clearly much older than the typical kit man from the start (Will is far more typical of who has that position - a kid). That told me that Nate hadn’t taken a lot of risks in life, because he didn’t think he could do it/didn’t think he deserved it/was certain he’d be rejected.  That’s why Ted started getting him out there and making him take risks. Ted took him to the charity auction/dinner, because that’s the sort of event Nate probably hadn’t experienced before. Ted made him read his observations about the team directly to the team, and made sure that the risk and Nate’s knowledge of the sport and the team got rewarded. Nate’s behavior in someone who is Will’s age wouldn’t be unusual. But Nate is clearly older than that and I think that’s why Ted started to push him out of his shell. Ted saw he needed help.

Dr. Sharon has really grown on me and I loved her this episode. And I appreciated Ted’s journey through approaching therapy - that sort of self-care and self-examination can be really scary. And I suspect Ted is sitting on a deep well of sadness he’s been afraid to look at for a long time. And Dr. Sharon was right when she said that therapy is going to piss Ted off before he starts to get better. I think it’s pretty common in therapy to get angry/sad at your situation before you can process that and start to get better. 

Other notes:

- Keeley and Roy continue to be wonderful. Even though they were having issues, I enjoy their sort of radical honesty (every time Roy asked “Are you talking about me?” Keeley always said yes while others denied it). And Roy and/or Keeley is a massive Sade fan. I looked at the playlist on Apple Music and there is a shit-ton of Sade on that four hour playlist.

- I initially hated the idea of the secret smoking in the boot room because first, smoking is just gross and it must reek in there. And two - ladies? Ashing into shoes and leaving your cigarette butts for Will to clean up? Rude. But when Higgins pulled out his pipe, I was suddenly okay with the secret smoking room. It was just perfect. But seriously - clean up after yourselves, ladies. You’re both classier than that.

Please let Rebecca and Higgins start moonlighting as a jazz duo.

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SnarkShark

SnarkShark

(edited)
On 9/3/2021 at 2:18 AM, funnygirl said:

2x07

Nate is an asshole. 

If the writers actually go through with Rebecca/Sam, it will be a disaster. 

Keeley and Roy, superb as usual.

This episode felt very off for me, but perhaps that was by design.

It all worked for me. 

I don't think it's a negative for the show that Nate is an asshole.  Most of us called it quite a while back, but it's not like it's built on clichés.  It comes off as pretty real. 

Rebecca and Sam did make me nervous, but I can't possibly see them portraying it as a good idea.  My main nervousness is what, if anything, comes up about race.  Does the show function better if it acknowledges the way it could be misinterpreted racially (by others) EITHER if she dates him OR rejects him, and does it possibly set people off since the REAL reason she should never get involved with him is the professional relationship, the inherent imbalance? Is the show better off acknowledging the possible conflation of these issues, or acting like it just doesn't matter? 

Again, a Roy/Keeley plot was navigated really well.  I guess Brett Goldstein, understandably, being inside the writer's room is allowing him to protect his own character from being mangled. 

Edited by SnarkShark
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AllyB

AllyB

(edited)
16 hours ago, LADreamr said:

I agree he should be doing better, but emotional maturity doesn't go along automatically with chronological aging.  If his parents have been emotionally infantilizing him, or limiting his emotional growth by squashing his spirit, it's something he's going to have to actively and consciously work on.

If he has spent over 20 years of his adult life, still allowing himself to defined by his parents poor treatment. Still unable to deal with his insecurities in any way other than to bully the 'smaller guy,' he really isn't likely to change. People can do work on themselves, have realisations and make themselves change. But realistically, having lived half his probable life expectancy like this, he isn't going to change. Even if he wants to, it's very unlikely. People can and do change. But it's rare. And it's more likely for constantly evolving people to change. Even when people do change, very often their core is still the same, they are just changing how they prioritise things and express themselves. But they are still the same person.

To be honest, the idea that someone with Nate's damage can ever truly change is a dangerous one. It's why so many people give so much of their lives to their abusers. They are sure that their parent or spouse can change. Can be helped to be happier, can grow and stop abusing when they are helped to realise how much of their hurt they are passing on to others. Nate on the show will be helped to become a good person. because that is the show we are watching. In real life, Nate would learn to reign in those impulses in work and take them out on someone in his personal life.

Edited by AllyB
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Whimsy
Message added by Whimsy,

This thread is now locked.  There are individual episode threads where you can take the discussion.  Feel free to quote a post from this thread and carry it over to the episode thread to continue discussions. 

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