S01.E11: The Reunion

[sasha206]

4 hours ago, luvenan said:

Yes, I think she still wishes she had been attracted to him, hence the tears. If it's really true that she only goes after the wrong guys, some serious investment in therapy might be more helpful than going on a reality show... she seems lonely. 
 

I think she acted her tears.  As did Damian.  As did Gia.  They were all terrible actors on a reality show looking for fame.

[sasha206]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:42 PM, rozen said:

There were some raised eyebrows about Amber's enthusiasm to enjoy Barnett's economic status, but not a whisper about Mark. Jessica's assets clearly outstripped even Barnett's and Mark was young and broke. She kept saying he was too young, but I think she meant he was too big a liability to marry when she hardly knew him. 

Probably because Mark actually works, wasn't homeless.  He didn't have the income that Jessica had, but there were no accounts of him having significant debt he wasn't willing to pay off.  No discussion of having significant debt while maxing out a credit card on something frivolous.  He may have roommates, bean bag chair and lived like how many his age live, but he didn't seem to need Jessica to support a lifestyle.  His parents weren't telling Jessica to "take care of him."

Amber and Barnett will be divorced once when they realize their lives together as a couple isn't as profitable as they thought in the reality/social media way.  Guarantee you they are probably looking for other reality shows, like Amazing Race.  

Edited March 7, 2020 by sasha206

[Starlight925]

The difference between Mark and Amber, from a financial standpoint, is that Mark actually has goals and plans.  Remember when Jessica picked up that book that he had, and he said it was a Fitness Training book?  Mark is trying to work hard and do something positive.  He's not homeless; he has roommates and a burgeoning career.  He has found a passion and is working at it.  You can see from his own body that he takes this lifestyle seriously, and we also observed him staying pretty sober throughout the show, not trying to match Jessica's drinking.  

Whereas Amber straight up said, many times, that she wants to be a stay-at-home mom and admitted her debt and terrible finances.

Mark is too good for Jessica.  He's sweet, kind, and adorable.  Jessica is a bitter old hag (I don't believe she's 34 for one second), who will drown in her sorrows.  

Did anyone other than me notice that, when asked about her drinking, Jessica said, "Well I was served whiskey".  No honey, you drank whiskey.  Just because you were served something, you still are not taking responsibility for drinking it.  And honey, we saw you guzzle red wine by the case.  I can't remember a scene where she was without a glass.

She must be one of those people who drinks her calories.  I have friends like that.  Great figures, but they rarely eat.  I have one friend who literally drinks 1+ bottle/day of red wine. She does, in fact, buy it by the case.

Re:  Diamond.  I don't blame her for being upset at Carlton, waiting until they got to Mexico to share something so important.  This ins't about being homophobic, or trans-phobic, or whatever.  They spent dozens, maybe over 100, hours in the pods, and got engaged, yet he withheld something so important.  I'd be pissed too.  Now I don't think she handled it well, but the onus is on him.  I think they both did a great job of maintaining their composure at the reunion, but I do think they'll go their separate ways in life and not maintain some "friendship facade".

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Sterling

[DearEvette]

4 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Probably because Mark actually works, wasn't homeless.  He didn't have the income that Jessica had, but there were no accounts of him having significant debt he wasn't willing to pay off.  No discussion of having significant debt while maxing out a credit card on something frivolous.  He may have roommates, bean bag chair and lived like how many his age live, but he didn't seem to need Jessica to support a lifestyle.  His parents weren't telling Jessica to "take care of him."

Bingo. 

I also wonder if Amber telling Barnett about her debt during the moving in together phase was the first they talked about it?  Because if so... yikes. 

Based on what we've learned about the pod dating, once they got to the top two/three they spent hours and hours just talking to each other.  What did they talk about?  Cameron has mentioned several times in interviews that he and Lauren absolutely talked about finances during the dating phase.

[Blissfool]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:26 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I wanted to say that I thought that Gigi and Carlton presented themselves very well, better than they did on the show.  But then there were so many accusations of them "acting" that I felt silly.  But nah, whatever.  I'm gonna post it anyway.

Eh, we'reall entitled to our unpopular opinions. Here are mine...

- I think Amber looks 100% better as a blonde. She looked trashy as a brunette. Not so much as a blonde.

- I don't think Mark, with his frog eyes and weird shaped head, is good-looking at all.

- I don't believe Lauren and Cameron. I think she's all in it for the internet fame and that's why she let out the "I love you" so early. She had to get her foot in the door and had to snag that nerdy puppy dog that will follow her around and do everything she says all while he rubs her arm up and down. How the skin on her arm is not raw baffles me.

[Starlight925]

6 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

Eh, we'reall entitled to our unpopular opinions. Here are mine...

- I think Amber looks 100% better as a blonde. She looked trashy as a brunette. Not so much as a blonde.

- I don't think Mark, with his frog eyes and weird shaped head, is good-looking at all.

- I don't believe Lauren and Cameron. I think she's all in it for the internet fame and that's why she let out the "I love you" so early. She had to get her foot in the door and had to snag that nerdy puppy dog that will follow her around and do everything she says all while he rubs her arm up and down. How the skin on her arm is not raw baffles me.

Ha ha!  I agree on all counts!

While I think Mark seems like a terrific guy, I kept trying to make him look "attractive" to me from different angles.  He got better looking, the more we got to "know" him, but he's still not objectively attractive to me.

And I, too, think Amber looks great as a blonde.  I typically hate when women dye their natural color to something so different, but I really thought she looked great.  I still can't stand her OTT facial expressions and find her to be so Extra, but I did think she looked good.

And I'm with you on the Lauren/Cameron thing as well.  Spot on.  She's all about social media, and Cameron will follow her to the ends of the earth, buying her a puppy, making up a special room in his house for her "business", rubbing her arm all day.  She'll get more followers than all of them put together.  I'm sorry, but I don't buy her "love" for him.  I just don't.  They will be on every talk show from Good Morning to Ellen.  I just don't buy her level of love for him.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Sterling

[Ms Blue Jay]

I've read twice now that Diamond didn't handle things well, but what?  She didn't?  All she did was act surprised and visibly need time the process the information that Carlton was giving her.

From the way I remember it, it was Cartlon that started attacking her out of nowhere when she didn't present the exact reaction she wanted.

I thought Diamond handled things fine and presented herself well on the show, but that's just my opinion.

[retired watcher]

On 3/5/2020 at 6:53 PM, sasha206 said:

Unpopular Opinion #3:   Jessica was an asshole, but I found her likeable despite sexy baby voice.  I don't feel any sorrow for Mark.  I don't believe any of those guy are in this show becaus they really want love!  They're all in it for instant fame.  Are we really to believe this young something is going to fall in love with a 34 year old that looks closer to 45?  That based on what is basically a phone call over a couple of days that he would marry anyone?  

That said, the one I hated the most was Giannina.  I feel like she was auditioning for a telenovela.  Kelly too.  I didn't for one second believe Kelly's tears.  They are all wanna be actresses looking for fame.

Fortunately Gia wasn't the star of the show last night.  Maybe she knows how ridiculous she came off.

Pretty girl though --- cross of Kate Hudson and Drew Barrymore to me!

 

I get young Kate Winslet vibes.

[retired watcher]

On 3/5/2020 at 11:27 PM, thejuicer said:

Kelly and Kenny: What a surprise, they both seem like mature, kind individuals. It just didn't work out. I wish them well.

Amber and Barnett: I thought Barnett was the ultimate fuckboy during the pods but he has really surprised me since committing to Amber. Every time Jessica flirted with him, he was super respectful of Amber. Watching him squirm during Amber's takedown of Jessica was hilarious. Both he and Amber grew on me and I wish them happiness. 

Gigi and Damien: I find this the least interesting couple because I don't see anything genuine between them. They are both auditioning for future roles and counting Instagram followers in their heads. And for all the crap Jessica gets for looking old, Damien is the roughest looking 27 year old I've seen.

Jessica and Mark: I thought Jessica redeemed herself a bit with the reunion show. I thought it showed some maturity (and a lot of restraint) she didn't talk back to Amber. It's so unlike any other reality show. I wish she had stopped with her whole BS "It was just the process, I wasn't ready blah blah" and just admit she wanted Barnett. Mark is so kind and graceful, and he will have no problems with the ladies from now on I'm guessing. 

Diamond and Carlton: Carlton is just trash for the whole proposal thing. Diamond is a lot kinder than me because I would have slapped that ring out of his hand. I hope Diamond moves on, gets her PhD, and retires from reality TV.

Lauren and Cameron: I have loved this couple since the first episode. Their connection is so real. I don't understand the "serial killer comments" about Cameron. I find him incredibly sexy. Lauren is a stunningly beautiful woman and her inner beauty really shines. I hope they never ever break up!

Carlton was so afraid of rejection that he sabotaged the whole engagement. He acted like a fool when they got to the resort and he expected her to 100% say everything was fine immediately. If he would have given her some time to process things would have been fine. I don't think she is the slightest bit homophobic.

[sasha206]

Was I the only one who found Gia's "I self-sabotage" comments so irritating over the course of the show?

I feel like what she was really going for was, "I'm just soooooooo complex! Isn't that interesting?"

[Alexander Pope]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Bingo. 

I also wonder if Amber telling Barnett about her debt during the moving in together phase was the first they talked about it?  Because if so... yikes. 

Based on what we've learned about the pod dating, once they got to the top two/three they spent hours and hours just talking to each other.  What did they talk about?  Cameron has mentioned several times in interviews that he and Lauren absolutely talked about finances during the dating phase.

I was confused about whether Barnett was a) upset that Amber wasn't working, or b) upset that she was cocktail waitressing and flirting so she quit, or somehow c) both.  Which was it?  I know she had an accident and wasn't working when they met, but she can't get her story straight which seems fishy to me.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Alexander Pope
edited for typo

[Ms Blue Jay]

I can't believe Amber decided to air out their marriage problems like that.  I just don't see the point.  I don't see how it helps them.  I thought Barnett would hate how she did that but I assume that they discussed it beforehand?  I just don't see any reason why anyone would do something like that. It was way too much information.  Maybe it makes other married couples feel like they're not alone but…… it really doesn't help her.  With the divorce rate being so high I think everyone knows that marriage is hard.  

Unless she's purposely trying to sell the 'drama' of their marriage so that she can finagle her way into more reality or social media fame, or something.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[sasha206]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I can't believe Amber decided to air out their marriage problems like that.  I just don't see the point.  I don't see how it helps them.  I thought Barnett would hate how she did that but I assume that they discussed it beforehand?  I just don't see any reason why anyone would do something like that. It was way too much information.  Maybe it makes other married couples feel like they're not alone but…… it really doesn't help her.  With the divorce rate being so high I think everyone knows that marriage is hard.  

Unless she's purposely trying to sell the 'drama' of their marriage so that she can finagle her way into more reality or social media fame, or something.

Woop, there it is!

Soon, they'll be on Amazing Race. They'll bicker, they'll be on the brink of divorce.  Then they'll be on Marriage Boot Camp.  After that it's Couples Therapy.  They'll then finally divorce and both will suddenly be in long distance relationships and then be on 90 Day Fiance series -- before the 90 days, 90 Day Fiance, Happily Ever After, Pillow Talk.

Edited March 7, 2020 by sasha206

[DearEvette]

56 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I can't believe Amber decided to air out their marriage problems like that.  I just don't see the point.  I don't see how it helps them.  I thought Barnett would hate how she did that but I assume that they discussed it beforehand?  I just don't see any reason why anyone would do something like that. It was way too much information.  Maybe it makes other married couples feel like they're not alone but…… it really doesn't help her.  With the divorce rate being so high I think everyone knows that marriage is hard.  

Unless she's purposely trying to sell the 'drama' of their marriage so that she can finagle her way into more reality or social media fame, or something.

Yeah I have to wonder about that.  I mean, Barnett was also part of those conversations with Jessica.  Did he never reveal to Amber in the year and a half they were married that Jessica came on to him a few times?  Even though they had to keep the marriages a secret from the world, they didn't need to from each other.

I read that they are all (most of them) are on a groupme.  If Amber were really that upset with Jessica she could have confronted her in that year and a half.  Its not like she didn't know how to get in touch with her.  I mean, Diamond and Carleton knew they were going to be meeting face to face and decided they needed to clear the air privately.  As much as I have major issues with Carleton, that is grown ass people stuff right there.  I mean, his dramatic 'friendposal' was all theatre, but the important, real stuff was dealt with behind the cameras.

In contrast, Amber's confrontation with Jessica just came off as reality tv 101.  And unpopular opinion alert:  I think Jessica is the one that came out looking classier.

[Ms Blue Jay]

31 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

In contrast, Amber's confrontation with Jessica just came off as reality tv 101.  And unpopular opinion alert:  I think Jessica is the one that came out looking classier.

I've made my feelings about Jessica no secret, but yes, she handled herself well on the reunion, that's for sure.  She didn't really argue and mostly apologized and was humbled.

[Blakeston]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've read twice now that Diamond didn't handle things well, but what?  She didn't?  All she did was act surprised and visibly need time the process the information that Carlton was giving her.

From the way I remember it, it was Cartlon that started attacking her out of nowhere when she didn't present the exact reaction she wanted.

I thought Diamond handled things fine and presented herself well on the show, but that's just my opinion.

I think Diamond regrets being as foul-mouthed as she was in that argument. I think that's what Vanessa was referring to when she talked about Diamond wincing when hearing the words she used while rewatching the ring-throwing scene.

Personally, I think she had every right to be foul-mouthed in that moment. I probably would have said worse.

On 3/5/2020 at 11:27 PM, thejuicer said:

Lauren and Cameron: I have loved this couple since the first episode. Their connection is so real. I don't understand the "serial killer comments" about Cameron. I find him incredibly sexy. Lauren is a stunningly beautiful woman and her inner beauty really shines. I hope they never ever break up!

I don't get the "Cameron is a serial killer/stalker" comments, either. He just seems like a sweet, nerdy guy to me. The only thing that seemed at all red-flaggish to me was his body language at the reunion, and that was probably just him being uncomfortable.

His family seems nice, and he has friends who seem nice. He wasn't intense all the time. He had a few good jokes (like saying that his pet peeve was not being able to use Lauren's toothbrush). He was willing to rap in front of Lauren's mother. He was in touch with his emotions enough to cry, but he didn't do it excessively.

If he was controlling, it would have come out when Lauren repeatedly expressed doubts about giving up her independence. But he handled that well. Maybe he seemed like he was just too "perfect," but the extreme nerdiness isn't most women's idea of perfection.

If anyone came across like a serial killer, it was Damian, who seemed like an angry, stone-faced, dead-eyed neanderthal.

[Angeleyes]

I keep reading interviews with the contestants and other pod people where they hint that Mark got a really good edit and that he’s not as nice of a guy as what we’ve been led to believe. I wish we could get more details on that, but it seems like everyone’s NDA prevents them from going into details. 
 

 

[aradia22]

With all of the Amazing Race comments, I think where I differ from the people who think Amber and Barnett will definitely implode, is that I see some Rachel Reilly/Brendon Villegas energy. It doesn't matter if she's annoying. It matters if he finds her annoying. Yes, it's nice if on paper marriages are equal partnerships and great meetings of minds. But not everyone is that smart or looking for that kind of a connection. You need to find someone on your level. And if Amber and Barnett have found that, I think they have as good of a shot of making it as any young couple who confuse love with infatuation/attraction. Plenty of men are not ideologically opposed to being the breadwinners in a relationship. 

I certainly don't find A/B as toxic as Giannina and Damian. Unless they kept all their not fake, genuinely harmonious moments off camera. 

[Pepper Mostly]

On 3/5/2020 at 2:03 PM, aradia22 said:

Watching Amber's and Barnett's faces when Jessica is talking is hilarious. Highly recommend.

I was SCREAMING. Hilarious!

On 3/5/2020 at 10:27 PM, Empress1 said:

I actually don't think there should be a second season - this is really lightning in a bottle - but you're totally right that if there is one, they'll want more to do, and I think they should get rid of them altogether.

That is exactly what I said, out loud, when they were talking about season 2. "It'll never be as good as this one. Lightning in a bottle". 

On 3/5/2020 at 11:26 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I am obsessed with Lauren, and I would totally watch whatever reality show she does in future if she so chooses.

Lauren seems like a really cool, sweet, fun girl and I would love to hang out with her. 

On 3/7/2020 at 2:46 PM, sasha206 said:

Was I the only one who found Gia's "I self-sabotage" comments so irritating over the course of the show?

I feel like what she was really going for was, "I'm just soooooooo complex! Isn't that interesting?"

Oh yeah. Gigi stirs the shit wherever she goes, makes problems where there are none, and drops these little pearls into her conversation to show that she's "deep". 

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Gigi stirs the shit wherever she goes, makes problems where there are none, and drops these little pearls into her conversation to show that she's "deep". 

A pop culture podcast that I listen to  (for those of you who remember TWoP, it's hosted by Linda Holmes, TWoP's Miss Alli) pointed out that Gigi speaks like someone who has somehow picked up therapy-speak, whether because she's had therapy or she's just heard it thrown around, but she doesn't actually know what the terms mean.

22 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I don't get the "Cameron is a serial killer/stalker" comments, either. He just seems like a sweet, nerdy guy to me. The only thing that seemed at all red-flaggish to me was his body language at the reunion, and that was probably just him being uncomfortable.

His family seems nice, and he has friends who seem nice. He wasn't intense all the time. He had a few good jokes (like saying that his pet peeve was not being able to use Lauren's toothbrush). He was willing to rap in front of Lauren's mother. He was in touch with his emotions enough to cry, but he didn't do it excessively.

If he was controlling, it would have come out when Lauren repeatedly expressed doubts about giving up her independence. But he handled that well. Maybe he seemed like he was just too "perfect," but the extreme nerdiness isn't most women's idea of perfection.

If anyone came across like a serial killer, it was Damian, who seemed like an angry, stone-faced, dead-eyed neanderthal.

I'm sure he's not perfect, and I agree with you that there are lots of women who hear "data scientist" and pair that with his somewhat reserved, analytical demeanor and think "nope!" He wasn't going to be in Jessica or Amber's top 3, for example (and I remember a pod conversation between him and Amber and he didn't seem particularly into her either - he kind of chuckled wryly at her extra-ness). But I agree with you. He came across to me as a good guy who was ready to be in a relationship, found someone he wanted to be in a relationship with, and acted accordingly. He has a five-year relationship under his belt so commitment doesn't seem to be an issue for him.

It's kind of like when Jessica said that Mark's emotional availability was a red flag. Emotional availability is only a red flag if you've been picking emotionally unavailable men. I felt sorry for her when she said that. My friends and I have come across a lot of emotionally unavailable and/or fuckboyish men during our 20s and 30s and then when we come across a man that we're attracted to, is attracted to us, and who's like "Yep, I want this with you," we're like "Wait, what? Isn't something supposed to go wrong?" (Which I think was at the root of Lauren's fears. She said she'd never been that happy, and she may have been thinking "Am I supposed to be this happy?" I went through something similar in a previous relationship. She also said Cameron was the first man who was willing to be loving with her - I forget how she said it exactly, but the point was that she hadn't been loved so openly in previous relationships.)

Also, between Cameron and Barnett, Barnett may be the less openly nerdy/more bro-y of the two (though he has an equally left-brained job) but I think Cameron is the more secure one.

[talktoomuch]

23 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I think Diamond regrets being as foul-mouthed as she was in that argument. I think that's what Vanessa was referring to when she talked about Diamond wincing when hearing the words she used while rewatching the ring-throwing scene.

Personally, I think she had every right to be foul-mouthed in that moment. I probably would have said worse.

The problem wasn't that Diamond cursed at Carlton. The problem was that the insult she threw at him was that he was waiting for (or should be waiting for) the "next dick." That is an insult that many bisexual people have expressed is demeaning and minimizing. It feeds into the assumption that bi people can't make up their minds or be faithful or find love with one gender if they've ever been with another.

This is not me taking up for Carlton. I'm not in any way. Just trying to explain why what she said is not so innocuous in the LGBTQ+ community. And I do think Diamond really regrets saying it.

[DearEvette]

I don't think Diamond-as-biphobic is that cut & dried.  I think what the LGBQT+ community as a whole is missing is the intersectionality of race in the Diamond and Carleton dynamic.  There was an entire subtext of race thrumming through that entire exchange.

The black community's relationship with the LGBTQ community, especially black men in the LGBTQ community, is a little different than the white LGBTQ community.  The down low culture is real.  And Diamond would be 100% aware of this.  She only just met this guy face-to-face a day or so prior to that conversation.  They supposedly spent hours upon hours talking in the pod and he never revealed this.

Problem is, we will never really know how she would have reacted because Carleton never gave her time.  He went into attack mode immediately.  And he inserted a heaping helping of misogynoir in his attack.  Called her  'ignorant',  a 'stereotype' and a 'bitch'.  Then he went on to insult her hair. 

He hit exactly the pressure points to hurt a black woman.  There is a reason why Lauren's hair always looked so damned impeccable.  She doesn't have the luxury to go about any old way like Jessica or Amber did.  She knew she'd be judged harshly if her hair wasn't right because black women's hair is a trigger point.  And Carleton is aware of this.

Diamond's clap back, imo, was more about his attack on her as a black woman.  It was hurtful so she went hurtful right back.

Personally, I am more bothered that Carleton's immediate go-to is to be insulting and hurtful rather than to try to talk something out.  That is a glowing red flag. 

But... that said... I do think the show did Carleton a huge disservice.  I have lots of thoughts about that.

Edited March 9, 2020 by DearEvette

[Blakeston]

2 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

The problem wasn't that Diamond cursed at Carlton. The problem was that the insult she threw at him was that he was waiting for (or should be waiting for) the "next dick." That is an insult that many bisexual people have expressed is demeaning and minimizing. It feeds into the assumption that bi people can't make up their minds or be faithful or find love with one gender if they've ever been with another.

This is not me taking up for Carlton. I'm not in any way. Just trying to explain why what she said is not so innocuous in the LGBTQ+ community. And I do think Diamond really regrets saying it.

Oh, wow - that whole thing happened so fast I didn't even catch that line.

(I also didn't catch Jessica giving wine to her dog, but I'm pretty sure Netflix edited that out of the episode before I watched it for the first time a few days ago.)

[BoogieBurns]

46 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

(I also didn't catch Jessica giving wine to her dog, but I'm pretty sure Netflix edited that out of the episode before I watched it for the first time a few days ago.)

It's on there, I just saw it. Not only does she give the dog a lick of her wine, she then drinks out of the glass after the dog. She was quite drunk, so I'm positive she forgot the dog had a lick. But that was not the first time that pup had wine. He knew it was coming.

[ridethemaverick]

8 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

The problem wasn't that Diamond cursed at Carlton. The problem was that the insult she threw at him was that he was waiting for (or should be waiting for) the "next dick." That is an insult that many bisexual people have expressed is demeaning and minimizing. It feeds into the assumption that bi people can't make up their minds or be faithful or find love with one gender if they've ever been with another.

This is not me taking up for Carlton. I'm not in any way. Just trying to explain why what she said is not so innocuous in the LGBTQ+ community. And I do think Diamond really regrets saying it.

 

But that's not what she said at all. She was quoting Beyonce lyrics. "You ain't married to no average bitch, boy...you can watch me bounce to the next dick, boy."

[CarobCake]

8 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

The problem wasn't that Diamond cursed at Carlton. The problem was that the insult she threw at him was that he was waiting for (or should be waiting for) the "next dick." That is an insult that many bisexual people have expressed is demeaning and minimizing. It feeds into the assumption that bi people can't make up their minds or be faithful or find love with one gender if they've ever been with another.

This is not me taking up for Carlton. I'm not in any way. Just trying to explain why what she said is not so innocuous in the LGBTQ+ community. And I do think Diamond really regrets saying it.

Pretty sure she said *she* was bouncing to the next dick, as per the Beyonce lyrics she quoted,

"Who the fuck do you think I is?
You ain't married to no average bitch, boy
You can watch my fat ass twist, boy
As I bounce to the next dick, boy"

Or did I miss something?

 

Hah @ridethemaverick, Jynx!

Edited March 9, 2020 by luvenan
posted same thing at the same time as someone else

[Angeleyes]

Yes, she was quoting Beyoncé. That’s why they gave Beyoncé a brief shout out on this reunion episode. 

[EarlGreyTea]

On 3/7/2020 at 3:36 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've made my feelings about Jessica no secret, but yes, she handled herself well on the reunion, that's for sure.  She didn't really argue and mostly apologized and was humbled.

I must agree, and I disliked her from the jump. Whatever caused her to totally be humbled - a mix of the social media reaction, passage of time, and seeing herself onscreen - I hope she goes with it. She caused a strong reaction from the audience and is at least partially responsible for the show's success with her mess. Of course, the death threats are way over the top. At her core, I think she's a decent person.

I thought Amber's smackdown of her was over the top, but it makes sense if Amber had no idea about what was said in Barnett and Jessica's conversations and was blindsided. So it's fresh in her mind. I do think much of her reaction was loving that she got one over on Jessica by bagging the "hot guy."

Edited March 9, 2020 by EarlGreyTea

[latincoffee]

I lost interest in the reunion. It was boring. Hopefully, Season 2 (if it gets to that!) will be fun and much more adventurous.

[aradia22]

Quote

I thought Amber's smackdown of her was over the top, but it makes sense if Amber had no idea about what was said in Barnett and Jessica's conversations and was blindsided. So it's fresh in her mind. I do think much of her reaction was loving that she got one over on Jessica by bagging the "hot guy."

I highly doubt that she didn't talk about it with Barnett or that she didn't know what was happening at the time. Jessica was a drunken mess. The one time she wasn't falling all over Barnett when Amber wasn't there was when they had their one-on-one meeting and she tried to pretend she totally hadn't been chasing after him those other times. And I don't think that's the one that would have made Amber mad. 

I think it was just for show because it needed to be said. I don't think Amber was really that fired up a year later. Also, God bless her for doing it because the reunion would have been boring as hell without it. It's not that I needed drama but I needed something more than Vanessa pretending to be a therapist. At least show me Lauren and Cameron's puppy.

[Ratatouille]

22 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

The problem wasn't that Diamond cursed at Carlton. The problem was that the insult she threw at him was that he was waiting for (or should be waiting for) the "next dick." That is an insult that many bisexual people have expressed is demeaning and minimizing. It feeds into the assumption that bi people can't make up their minds or be faithful or find love with one gender if they've ever been with another.

This is not me taking up for Carlton. I'm not in any way. Just trying to explain why what she said is not so innocuous in the LGBTQ+ community. And I do think Diamond really regrets saying it.

Yeeeaahh, no. I know others have already clarified but comments like these and the misrepresentation of what she said is, in my opinion, why Diamond has unjustly received flack for her reaction. She was quoting a Beyoncé song basically telling him she is on to the next one (“watch my ass as I move on to the next dick,  boy”). It had nothing to do with his sexuality or against bisexual people in general. Someone comes and read this post without scrolling down will go on thinking Carlton was justified in his response to her.

 

 

 

 

 

[talktoomuch]

@ridethemaverick @luvenan @Angeleyes @Ratatouille thank you all for the clarification. I am not in the Beehive and I don't follow any of these people on SM so I had no idea. I looked up the lyrics AND I went back and rewatched this scene. Her delivery was not nearly as clear as the lyrics and comes out as "Watch my ass to the next dick, boy." I'm sure I'm not the only person who didn't get the reference. She didn't say the part about "You ain't married to no average bitch, boy" until after that.

Let me be super clear: I was in no way excusing Carlton at all. He was dead wrong in keeping his secret, picking a fight, lashing out, lying, calling her names and insulting her. He definitely needs counseling to come to a place of acceptance about who he really is as a black bisexual man who is a preacher's kid. As @DearEvette says, that's an extremely rough intersectionality to navigate. And he is clearly nowhere near confident doing so.

Anyway, thank you for my schooling. I am very relieved that Diamond did not play into LGBTQ+ prejudices. So now I am confused about what she was supposed to be apologizing for.

[Zuleikha]

Oh man... this is a tough one to explain to those who don't see it and I'm not sure if I can. But Diamond had a LOT to apologize for, IMHO. 

When Carlton first told Diamond, he was very obviously nervous and vulnerable. And Diamond reacted with seeming disgust. She gave him no reassurance or understanding. So just on the person-to-person level of what do we owe people we care about, to me, she failed completely. 

In a post-show interview that I read with her, she acknowledged that her response could have been much better: "Maybe I should have been more encouraging and maybe start off saying, “I’m happy you were able to open up to me. I’m happy you’re able to bring this to my attention at this moment in time.” Or, “I’m happy you came out. I know this is very hard for you to do that.” That possibly could have changed that whole outcome of how we were aggressive toward each other." So she's definitely learned, and I think she gets it now. Because she's totally right that either of those would have been a great way to respond that wouldn't invalidate her own need for space, time to process, and the ability to ask respectful questions.

Coming out as bisexual to a potential romantic interest is also just hard in terms of timing. It's really different from being gay or heterosexual because it feels like this very relevant thing but it also isn't relevant at all (at least, for monogamous people... it's a little different for poly). If you're monogamous, the person you're interested in potentially being with is the person you're potentially interested in being with. All bisexuality means is that some of your exes may be of a different gender. And so what? Sometimes there can be conversations where that fact naturally comes up. If Carlton and Diamond had a traditional dating relationship and Carlton's bisexuality  never naturally came up, I would think it was weird. But they didn't have a traditional dating relationship, so I don't think it's any weirder than that Barnett and Amber got engaged without Amber's student loan debt coming up. Carlton told Diamond on one of their first (if not their first) extended nights in face-to-face contact.

[peaceknit]

On 3/5/2020 at 8:26 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I am obsessed with Lauren, and I would totally watch whatever reality show she does in future if she so chooses.

I agree! She seems like such a sweet, positive person. I literally never saw a frown on her face. And she's beautiful to boot. Cameron got very lucky with her.

[ridethemaverick]

Nah, fuck Carlton. Any sympathy I may have had for him abruptly ended when he reached into his misogynist toolkit and pulled out a double: first, he called her a bitch and then he insulted her appearance. The only thing missing was "I didn't want you anyway."

What makes that ironic is he called HER stereotypical when he's the one who acted like a typical raging male who feels threatened by a woman.

So yeah, it's fuck his feelings on my end. And btw, this ain't his first rodeo. There's footage of him being nasty to a woman on a different reality show floating around in the web.

He's a piece of shit.

[Blakeston]

It's interesting to me that Kenny is the only person who's dating someone new. You'd think the ones who walked away from this single would be eager to find someone, and wouldn't have much trouble in that department. These are all attractive young* people who claimed to be looking for love, and they had over a year to move on.

* Insert "young - except for Jessica!" joke here. Except that...I'm actually willing to believe that Jessica was 34 when this was filmed. (I can accept that I'm probably in the minority on this!) Boozers often age terribly. And the issue was mostly just with her eyes.

[topanga]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:42 PM, rozen said:

I still can't tell if Lauren is actually all in w/ her marriage or if she just realizes this is an *excellent* opportunity to launch her social media career. Her and Camerons' body language is just so odd! Maybe she just really hates PDA, but in that case I don't know why Cameron insists on having at least one hand 2mm from a boob at all times.

I do think Cameron and Lauren love one another. They’re definitely the most normal couple in the group, but they’ve both said they’d be willing to do a reality show about their lives. Why? That’s when they stopped being totally normal to me. Who would want cameras following them around constantly? Cameron doesn’t seem like a fame whore. Lauren, maybe a little bit, but I still really like her. 
 

On 3/7/2020 at 11:31 AM, Blakeston said:

I'm sure the production was coaching him to divulge his "secret," and waiting for sparks to fly. But I can't imagine they were hoping for a blow-up so huge that they felt obligated to let Carlton and Diamond out of their contracts, and bring in a more boring couple (Kelly and Kenny) as backups.

I think the right hosts, with enough time, could have really explored Carlton's nasty and contradictory statements at the reunion show without being offensive, or exposing the fakeness of the show. But I doubt that Nick and Vanessa are the right people for that.

Carlton was an asshole from the first episode. It had nothing to do with his sexual fluidity. I’m surprised Diamond actually liked him enough to accept his proposal. 

[DearEvette]

20 minutes ago, topanga said:

 I do think Cameron and Lauren love one another. They’re definitely the most normal couple in the group, but they’ve both said they’d be willing to do a reality show about their lives. Why? That’s when they stopped being totally normal to me. Who would want cameras following them around constantly? Cameron doesn’t seem like a fame whore. Lauren, maybe a little bit, but I still really like her. 

l agree they are genuinely in love.  And the way they talk about how their families have blended and the normalcy they've settled into over the past year 1/2 makes me feel like they are also very grounded.  So, I don't necessarily think either one of them is a fame whore.  Lauren's business is content creation so she is a producer who creates slickly produced online and social content for her client base,  so some of it may be just a natural progression of her work.  Also she comes from that world.  Papa Speed is a big producer with BET.  He created Video Soul with Donnie Simpson and I believe produced and brought to screen other big  BET shows like 106 & Park etc. And her brother is part of the music scene in Detroit. She does his publicity work.

 

On 3/7/2020 at 11:31 AM, Blakeston said:

I think the right hosts, with enough time, could have really explored Carlton's nasty and contradictory statements at the reunion show without being offensive, or exposing the fakeness of the show. But I doubt that Nick and Vanessa are the right people for that.

I just listened to a podcast that included Jarrett Weiselman who works for Netflix and was in the control center and was part of the crew who worked the reunion.  And he sprinkled a few drops of tea.

- Apparently some of the BTS  Netlfixers  did want to reunion show to be a bit more... um fiery...  but Nick and Vanessa were allowed almost free reign to guide the discussion so that is why what we got was a bit subdued.  He called them a "more successful Kelly and Kenny" basically alluding to them being a bit on the boring side.  Even though he conceded that the LIB cast simply weren't the same type of people as The Real Housewives type, he does believe that with a different type of host we would have gotten to some more thorny subjects.

-He was tasked with making sure Jessica and Amber never were in the same room before the taping.  He had to keep them both apart.  So he was basically on Jessica duty from the time they arrived to the taping.  Everybody else was seated before she was led in, she as brought in last.

- The seating we saw on the show was not how the seating was originally set up.  Where we saw Carleton sitting (next to Barnett) was supposed to be Jessica.  And where Diamond was, was supposed to be Mark.  But When they brought Jess in and Amber realized that they were planning to seat Jess next to Barnett, she stood up and said that if they wanted her to participate they would not put Jess next to her husband.  So the seating as hastily re-arranged.

- He said everyone was super appalled when Carleton stood up and brought out the ring.  Weiselman said he himself let out a scream in the control booth.  The podcasters (a podcast called Bitch Sesh which I think normally does Real Housewives stuff) were not fans of Carleton's.  Weiselman believes that the producers knew Carleton had been on RHOA before so we may not be that far off with thinking there may have been some coaching for him to put off revealing his sexuality for as long as possible.

- Funny moment about Cameron. Cam's manspreading was a topic of discussion in the control booth.  Especially since er...um... they could see the outline of his ...um... assets.   Apparently, Cameron's a big dude.  In a lot of ways. (HA!) He is really tall and really built.  JW said both Cam and Lauren were both tall, very good looking,  and very charismatic in person.  Someone in the control booth asked if they should tell Cameron not to sit like that and he (Weiselman) said hell no.   LOL. 

[aradia22]

Quote

 Also she comes from that world.  Papa Speed is a big producer with BET.  He created Video Soul with Donnie Simpson and I believe produced and brought to screen other big  BET shows like 106 & Park etc. And her brother is part of the music scene in Detroit. She does his publicity work.

Wow. Very useful information.

I can believe that they are in love and that they also aren't "normal." Some people are able to be on reality TV or live as vloggers or whatever else and still be in committed relationships. I do think it's bad for some people who really need attention and validation or if one person is drawn to the limelight and the other person is not. But I do think some people can make it work. It's not something I personally understand but some people are able to live very public-facing lives.

Quote

 He called them a "more successful Kelly and Kenny" basically alluding to them being a bit on the boring side.

😆 That meaner than everyone dragging him over the "obviously, Nick Lachey" thing.

[GracieK]

On 3/10/2020 at 2:53 AM, Zuleikha said:

Oh man... this is a tough one to explain to those who don't see it and I'm not sure if I can. But Diamond had a LOT to apologize for, IMHO. 

When Carlton first told Diamond, he was very obviously nervous and vulnerable. And Diamond reacted with seeming disgust. She gave him no reassurance or understanding. So just on the person-to-person level of what do we owe people we care about, to me, she failed completely. 

In a post-show interview that I read with her, she acknowledged that her response could have been much better: "Maybe I should have been more encouraging and maybe start off saying, “I’m happy you were able to open up to me. I’m happy you’re able to bring this to my attention at this moment in time.” Or, “I’m happy you came out. I know this is very hard for you to do that.” That possibly could have changed that whole outcome of how we were aggressive toward each other." So she's definitely learned, and I think she gets it now. Because she's totally right that either of those would have been a great way to respond that wouldn't invalidate her own need for space, time to process, and the ability to ask respectful questions.

Coming out as bisexual to a potential romantic interest is also just hard in terms of timing. It's really different from being gay or heterosexual because it feels like this very relevant thing but it also isn't relevant at all (at least, for monogamous people... it's a little different for poly). If you're monogamous, the person you're interested in potentially being with is the person you're potentially interested in being with. All bisexuality means is that some of your exes may be of a different gender. And so what? Sometimes there can be conversations where that fact naturally comes up. If Carlton and Diamond had a traditional dating relationship and Carlton's bisexuality  never naturally came up, I would think it was weird. But they didn't have a traditional dating relationship, so I don't think it's any weirder than that Barnett and Amber got engaged without Amber's student loan debt coming up. Carlton told Diamond on one of their first (if not their first) extended nights in face-to-face contact.

I acknowledge that it’s difficult for a bi-sexual or homosexual person to come out and they should not be treated with disgust or insulted for that. But I don’t believe that finding out your SO is attracted to both genders is a so what for everyone - myself included. And I don’t think there is anything wrong with not being ok with dating someone who is bi-sexual for any number of reasons. If that is fine for you that’s great and no one should tell you that it’s not. Just like no one should tell another person that it’s not ok for them to not be ok with it. And that’s outside of the fact that he kept that information from her after so many hours of chatting. 

[Kiss my mutt]

If Carelton weren’t already being a dick to her before his revelation, I’d have more sympathy for him, but as it stands, I’m finding it hard to care. 
 

Amber sure didn’t waste anytime spending Matt’s money. Her hair, whether brown or blonde is the least trashy thing about her. 
 

Kelly and her sister have a codependent relationship and it appears Kelly benefits more from it. 
 

I’m okay with the hosts since they don’t really have much of a presence anyway and I’m happy this show got produced which they are largely responsible for. 
 

What kind of roles could Damien play? Freddy Kruger stand in?

[ohcomeon]

On 3/10/2020 at 1:53 AM, Zuleikha said:

Oh man... this is a tough one to explain to those who don't see it and I'm not sure if I can. But Diamond had a LOT to apologize for, IMHO. 

When Carlton first told Diamond, he was very obviously nervous and vulnerable. And Diamond reacted with seeming disgust. She gave him no reassurance or understanding. So just on the person-to-person level of what do we owe people we care about, to me, she failed completely. 

In a post-show interview that I read with her, she acknowledged that her response could have been much better: "Maybe I should have been more encouraging and maybe start off saying, “I’m happy you were able to open up to me. I’m happy you’re able to bring this to my attention at this moment in time.” Or, “I’m happy you came out. I know this is very hard for you to do that.” That possibly could have changed that whole outcome of how we were aggressive toward each other." So she's definitely learned, and I think she gets it now. Because she's totally right that either of those would have been a great way to respond that wouldn't invalidate her own need for space, time to process, and the ability to ask respectful questions.

 

I still feel that her reaction was more around the fact that he withheld the information when she thought they'd been baring their souls and confiding all. I saw her reaction more as an issue that there was such a significant secret more than what the secret was. To hear what she was hearing was that he was not honest with her. 

To me, it would be the same as not confiding that you had been convicted of a felony and spent time in jail. That is something that would seriously impact your lives as couples from employment opportunities to housing. 

So for all the people who are jumping on Diamond for her less than perfect reaction, would you feel the same if the revelation had been something different? 

[Spike]

On 3/8/2020 at 9:04 PM, BoogieBurns said:

It's on there, I just saw it. Not only does she give the dog a lick of her wine, she then drinks out of the glass after the dog. She was quite drunk, so I'm positive she forgot the dog had a lick. But that was not the first time that pup had wine. He knew it was coming.

She also said that the dog loves wine.  I turned on the closed captioning to double check that she actually said that.

[Spike]

On 3/9/2020 at 6:43 PM, talktoomuch said:

@ridethemaverick @luvenan @Angeleyes @Ratatouille thank you all for the clarification. I am not in the Beehive and I don't follow any of these people on SM so I had no idea. I looked up the lyrics AND I went back and rewatched this scene. Her delivery was not nearly as clear as the lyrics and comes out as "Watch my ass to the next dick, boy." I'm sure I'm not the only person who didn't get the reference. She didn't say the part about "You ain't married to no average bitch, boy" until after that.

Let me be super clear: I was in no way excusing Carlton at all. He was dead wrong in keeping his secret, picking a fight, lashing out, lying, calling her names and insulting her. He definitely needs counseling to come to a place of acceptance about who he really is as a black bisexual man who is a preacher's kid. As @DearEvette says, that's an extremely rough intersectionality to navigate. And he is clearly nowhere near confident doing so.

Anyway, thank you for my schooling. I am very relieved that Diamond did not play into LGBTQ+ prejudices. So now I am confused about what she was supposed to be apologizing for.

Well she did throw a drink on him.  But I guess when women do that to men it is acceptable.

[Irlandesa]

46 minutes ago, Spike said:

She also said that the dog loves wine.  I turned on the closed captioning to double check that she actually said that.

I think she did.  I will say, though, that my sister's dog goes crazy for beer and it's not like he was given beer.  There's something about the scent that he will sneak up next to a person drinking peer and try to steal a lick.

The difference is, just because he seems to want it, no one actually gives it to him.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Irlandesa said:

I think she did.  I will say, though, that my sister's dog goes crazy for beer and it's not like he was given beer.  There's something about the scent that he will sneak up next to a person drinking peer and try to steal a lick.

Yeah we had a dog when I was a kid who loved Pepsi.  But then he would run around like crazy from the sugar rush and the caffeine, 

[CoolMom]

On 3/6/2020 at 9:46 AM, snarts said:

Jessica looked sad and over it.  I wonder if her career has suffered?  Moving to Chicago, then LA.

 

When she said she went to Chicago for 6 months, I thought maybe that was for rehab.  I think her family was/is still in Chicago and it was helpful to her to have them around while dealing with the drinking especially if it was just an outpatient program or AA.  Having family around would certainly help keep you on track and accountable. 

[janerazor]

On 3/10/2020 at 1:53 AM, Zuleikha said:

Oh man... this is a tough one to explain to those who don't see it and I'm not sure if I can. But Diamond had a LOT to apologize for, IMHO. 

When Carlton first told Diamond, he was very obviously nervous and vulnerable. And Diamond reacted with seeming disgust. She gave him no reassurance or understanding. So just on the person-to-person level of what do we owe people we care about, to me, she failed completely. 

Diamond has nothing to apologize for. Carlton withheld vital information about who he IS. If you're going to marry someone and have an exclusive sexual relationship with someone, you have the right to know what sexual orientation that person is. Carlton doesn't stop being bisexual just because he proposed to Diamond. 

She felt blindsided by the information and said she needed time to process mentally. She owed it to herself to honor her own emotions. She did not suppress or dismiss what she was feeling just to cater to Carlton's emotions, and I commend her for that! Her question to Carlton about if he's sure he wants to be with a woman as opposed to a man was totally reasonable, and Carlton then flew off the handle and was rude and aggressive. When Diamond again stood up for herself, he started in on the insults. 

In the end, it had less to do with his sexuality than it did that he lied by omission, put Diamond in a tough situation, and then yelled at her for not immediately kowtowing to him. Bi or not, he's a self-absorbed bully.

[RealReality]

On 3/5/2020 at 6:48 PM, DearEvette said:

Yeah, what was up with him?  Whereas Amber looks like she just came from a spa, Barnett looks puffy and a little ... hangdog.  He doesn't look like the experience was 100% positive for him a year and half later.

He married a grifter and let her move in without a prenup. 

She got a job as a cocktail waitress and I'd bet you a shiny nickel she REALLY became flirty with other men as soon as he walked in the door because she doesn't want to work.  

She can open up credit cards in his name, if they live in a community property state she can access his accounts. 

He doesn't like to be in debt, she isn't working and they still have 20k of her student loans to pay.  If you think she is paying any of that out of her money, you got another thing coming....that money is going towards makeup. 

She insisted they move out of his perfectly nice house for something that is better suited to princess amber who doesn't have a job and can't contribute financially. 

He apparently isn't allowed to say anything negative about her to other people. 

He also has to listen to that laugh. 

So yeah, maybe a component of letting himself to because he is married, being stressed out over finances and having to work nonstop to keep her majesty in the manner to which she has become accustomed.  

 She can all the way miss me with her "it's so hard for me to depend on a man....I mean yeah I've had friends help me along the way". Which translated means she mooches off people until they get tired and kick her out. 

Just LOL that she called a divorce lawyer.  Shoulda got that prenup Barnett!

 

[Kiss my mutt]

And Barnett’s family will give him the big “I told you so!”

Amber is in hog heaven.