S01.E12: Take Your Choice

[Trini]

As Kate is pulled between two sisters, Luke and Mary are tasked with finding the cause behind Beth's debilitating headaches. A visitor delivers some good news to Jacob, while Sophie takes her new role to the extreme and Alice makes a devastating discovery.

Tara Miele directed the episode written by Ebony Gilbert.

Airdate: 2/16/2020

[mtlchick]

Well...that ended badly for Beth.  And Alice is piiiiissed.  Ah well.  

 

Ruby Rose is not the best crier.  She needs to get some tips from Grant Gustin.  

[Writing Wrongs]

We knew Beth would die, but it still sucks.

I can't stand Sophie. I hate that she's a main character as we'll probably be stuck with her for awhile.

You'd think they'd ask STAR Labs for help now that she knows everyone.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Writing Wrongs

[scarynikki12]

You don’t cast Sebastian Roche for a nothing role so I’m delighted he’s really evil dad. 

It’s a more interesting story if Sophie kills Beth but I’m also glad that she chose arrest. Was expecting Beth to die so that wasn’t a surprise but I will still miss her. And now Alice has more reasons to go against Kate. 

I love that they gave Kate this choice AND that she made it before evil dad arrived with the gun. 

I see you, show, not naming Kate’s soulmate and keeping your options open. 

[MarquisDeCarabas]

I knew it was going to happen, but that was some grade a bullshit. How the hell did he find them?

[bettername2come]

3 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Ruby Rose is not the best crier.  She needs to get some tips from Grant Gustin. 

She's not a contender for best crier on the network, but I do think Ruby Rose is slowly getting better. I bought her pain and surprise when she curled up against Alice as she dies and then didn't.

[mtlchick]

2 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

She's not a contender for best crier on the network, but I do think Ruby Rose is slowly getting better.

I will say she has steadily improved since the beginning and started to hit her stride during Crisis. 

[Josh371982]

Sorry still don't feel for Sorry for POS Mouse. Hes a reason Alice/Beth is like she is and FUCK his dad too for killing Beth. Some grade a Bullshit. hey Alice maybe if you blamed the right people and not shown any instance of Being A sister to Kate Lately...  I do detest watching dark shows sometimes lol. Kate just cant get a win. Figured they Got Sebastian Roche to play a bigger role than first thought 

20 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

We knew Beth would die, but it still sucks.

I can't stand Sophie. I hate that she's a main character as we'll probably be stuck with her for awhile.

You'd think they'd ask STAR Labs for help now that she knows everyone.

MOUSE is the one I cant stand and here in this episode we see how selfish he is and just wanted a playmate Fuck that she had a family. Hes just like his dad a pyschotic piece of shit. 

[UNOSEZ]

Booooo... I wanted beth.. If only for the completely unecessary triangle that would've come about with beth Mary and Luke.... But like others it was kind of writing on the wall... I was actually surprised they slipped Sophie into the ending... And  she almost killed the Beth... I hope we move away from alice for a bit... I think we all knew that Sebastian Roche wasn't gonna just play some nondescript doctor... And when he said he wanted to see mouse I guessed he was the dad... How exactly did he know where beth and Luke were? 

[tennisgurl]

I knew that they kind of had to keep Alice, but I so wanted Beth to survive! I really liked her, and it would be really interesting to have her around while getting rid of Alice, but I guess you cant off your big bad and sister of your hero before mining all that dramatic potential, so Alice gets to live...and she is even more pissed off than ever. I am glad that Kate choose to save Beth, and that she got to make the choice, her choosing Alice over Beth after everything would really be pushing Alice's second chances and Kate's good guy cred if she let an innocent person die over a domestic terrorist, and even worse, Mary would be so sad! I guess if they wanted to kill Beth and keep Alice, this was probably their best option besides finding a way for Beth to get to another universe (which is hard as they dont know that any other universes exist) but I still hate to lose Beth. Poor Beth, lost her whole world, almost died, and then died for real, shot by some asshole who was trying to kill her evil alternate self. 

I knew that you dont cast Sebastian Roche for a random role, and was wondering where Mouses dad had gone off to, so now we get both answers! You killed Beth you bastard, now your even higher up on my shit list! 

The scene with Alice and Beth was really good, Rachel Skarsten did really well playing Alice and Beth. They were both very different in body language and tone, but you could also see some similarities, which really hits you with the sort of Sliding Doors "What Beth could have been" nature of the story. It does actually make me feel a little more sad for Alice, or at least the person she could have been under different circumstances, seeing the awesome person she might have been. I mean, I feel a little more sad for her, she has still made her own choices that led her here, but it is interesting to see how much that one event changed everything. 

I also think Ruby Rose was quite good in her scene crying next to Alice when she was supposedly dying. I think she has been steadily improving, especially during Crisis. 

I see them playing coy with who Kates supposed soulmate is. Yeah I see you show, trying to try some stuff out before you settle on an endgame love interest. Sophie is at least getting some better material, but I am still not super into her and Kate. 

So how the hell did mask dad even find Beth and Luke? Is he psychic? Have GPS powers? I mean, this is the Arrowverse, these are legit questions!

[Pepper the Cat]

Daminit, I was so cheering for team Beth.

Alice will never forgive Kate for this. Things are going to get ugly.

[scarynikki12]

19 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So how the hell did mask dad even find Beth and Luke

He had one of those walkie talkies the Crows use so I assume he tracked their location that way.

[Lady Calypso]

Well, the ending wasn't necessarily shocking, besides with the who killed Beth part. But it was obvious that Beth was not surviving very long...it's just a shame that they couldn't have found a way to keep both around. It's frustrating because, narratively, it makes sense to kill Beth. But personally, I would have much rather they took the harder path in finding a way to keep Beth AND Alice alive.

1 hour ago, Josh371982 said:

MOUSE is the one I cant stand and here in this episode we see how selfish he is and just wanted a playmate Fuck that she had a family. Hes just like his dad a pyschotic piece of shit. 

Well, Mouse was a kid with a crappy dad so he really stood no chance. I feel a bit sorry for Mouse. He may be psychotic, but...they kind of branch out the idea with the whole What If game with Alice/Beth. Obviously, we see that, if Beth had been saved before getting kidnapped, she would have turned out fine. So, with them bringing back Psychotic Daddy Kitty Murderer, I find myself thinking that perhaps, Mouse could have turned out alright if he didn't have a psycho for a father. If he had been raised by a normal father, he could have turned out good.  He was still a kid, being abused and manipulated by the only person in his life. He stood absolutely no shot at all. Under different circumstances, maybe things could have been different. Just like Beth had a chance if she had been saved. 

But, alas, Mouse is too far broken, so it's too late for him. He's probably going to end up dead by the season's end, anyway. He still also has to answer for his crimes...but then again, so does Alice. She has a sad backstory but she's also responsible for all of her murders as well. 

Sebastian Roche gets to stick around for a while longer, so yay!

Mary's still great. I really liked her scene with Kate, begging her to save Beth instead of Alice. And I'm glad Kate DID end up choosing to save the good part of her sister, the one path she wished she had taken.

But, alas, Alice is alive and is going to remember this choice from Kate. Again, narratively, it's a good path to take with Beth dead and Alice alive. But I still wish they could have found a way. 

[Primal Slayer]

Decent episode...

As everyone else said..Beths death wasn't really a shock but I was hoping that they'd actually went through with killing Alice since it's a big decision Kate had to make but of course the villain is usually more interesting than the do-gooder. Now that Kate has made the decision and Alice knows that Kate was willing to let her die.....we really have to stop with the cat/mouse game the two have been having with one another. Alice should be ready to go full throttle....Kate will obviously defeat her by end of the season but they need to at least give Alice a season or two off before attempting to do anything else with her after this season.

Batwoman got a slightly modified costume in her new cowl, it looks good, I like it. Now they just need a much better wig.

But now we come to the headache part....Batwoman has established a pretty big and important side affect of Crisis and it shouldn't be one that the others ignore....only problem? Supergirl is doing the same doppelganger storyline without the "only one can exist" aspect. They have  a whole bar full of doppelgangers. So the Arrowverse is not setting any guidelines to this and it's a MESS. I prefer Batwomans version of the rules since it ups the stakes. 

[thuganomics85]

Batwoman is back after a few weeks off and things still could be going a lot better for poor Kate and the gang.

Once it was established that both Alice and Beth couldn't coexist in the same universe (although, as mentioned above, doesn't Supergirl kind of null and void that with the two bartenders gag?), I figured Beth was a goner, because they aren't getting rid of the main villain any time soon.  For a second, I had wondered if maybe Alice had set everything up this entire time, and had somehow switched the syringe during her fight with Mary, and it was laced with something else, but I called that wrong.  But I'll miss the Beth character and how she played off both Kate and Lucas.  And I felt like they could have gone into some interesting directions with her and Mary, and Mary continuing to get to know and even befriend someone who had the face of the woman responsible for her mother's death.

But the true villain this go around was good old Dr. Campbell, because, of course, Sebastian Roche wouldn't just be playing some random doctor dude!  He's actually August Cartwright in disguise, which is perfect since both Roche and John Emmet Tracy give off the same sinister vibes in most of their roles!  But I wonder what his plan with Mouse is now?  And what will happen if/when he finds out that Alice isn't dead.

Good thing Jacob is getting out of prison soon, since he isn't having the best time in there at the moment!  I wonder what will come out of this prisoner saving him and claiming he "owes" him.

Definitely noticed the being coy over who Kate's "soulmate" was in Beth's universe.  I suspect they are waiting to see how this all plays out with Sophie here, because it really isn't looking good for them at the moment.

I see they worked Catherine in a scene, despite being, well, dead.  I did think Elizabeth Anweis left more of an impression getting to go full-blown evil-like here, so, hey!  Maybe a post-Crisis Evil Catherine can suddenly make an appearance!

At this point, I almost think they're just trolling by having Nicole Kang part of that whole AT&T ad with Camrus Johnson in the Batcave!  Mary needs to get looped in soon, dammit!

Rachel Skarsten was MVP in those final scenes, but Ruby Rose continues to be getting better each episode, and has made me into a believer.

[ketose]

Killing off Alice and going with freak of the week plots was probably the only thing that would slow the ratings slide of the show. Lucky for them, the CW doesn't have anything else in the pipeline and about 6 shows ending this year.

[BaggythePanther]

I knew Alice wasn’t going to die, but I was hoping we could still keep Beth somehow. I thought they might merge, so we’d still have crazy Alice, but occasionally the good parts of Beth would break through. That could eventually lead to a redemption arc. As it is now, Kate has to kill Alice. She’s going to be ten times worse now that she knows Kate was willing to let her die. There’s no other way for this to end.

Im glad Sophie wasn’t the one to pull the trigger. She gets enough hate, no need to add to it.

So Mary knows about the “panic room” at the Wayne Building? Just tell her the rest.

[Lantern7]

Climax in one word: "Oops."

Honestly, that's some bad luck kicking Kate somewhere sensitive usually reserved for Barry and Jefferson. There's Alice slowly dying, and Kate sobbing with her. Then Beth gets killed, Alice is restored to full health (because plot reasons), and she knocks out Kate. Then she probably spat on her and called her a "Kate McKinnon doing Justin Bieber" before storming off. I mean, I really can't blame Kate for making her choice, because Alice dying would have been filed under "Mercy," but then Beth gets killed and the whole thing becomes moot.

Like I said: "Oops."

This is probably for the best, because Alice makes for an entertaining villain. I think a lesson was learned with Tobias Wale (everyone's favorite snarky albino asshole) in Black Lightning . . . you don't always need one villain running a season every season. Tobias is still used these days, and Rachel Skarsten could just chew on scenery for years. It's a long way from going through the motions on Birds of Prey.

Poor Mouse. He's so gonna get killed in the finale, isn't he?

[AnimeMania]

My two WTF moments were:

Beth and Alice are in the same room and one must die. Alice leaves and Kate goes to stop her, but Luke calls Kate back. Why?

Beth is safe in the Bat Cave. Alice is locked up in the infirmary. Why move Beth? Just call the Crows and tell them where Alice is really located.  

I guess Beth had to die, but I rather it was Alice. I am tired of how much air Alice is sucking up, aren't there any other criminals in Gotham. Batwoman spends more time fighting Drama than she does fighting Crime.

[Featherhat]

3 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

But now we come to the headache part....Batwoman has established a pretty big and important side affect of Crisis and it shouldn't be one that the others ignore....only problem? Supergirl is doing the same doppelganger storyline without the "only one can exist" aspect. They have  a whole bar full of doppelgangers. So the Arrowverse is not setting any guidelines to this and it's a MESS. I prefer Batwomans version of the rules since it ups the stakes. 

That would have required them to sit down and work out a universe bible which they certainly never did before. Post Crisis would have been a great time to do it with so many similar tropes going around but nope. Supergirl wants to go funnier with it, The Flash wants to keep options for Wells' open, Legends isn't really dealing with it but can't keep any rule straight for more than a few episodes and Batwoman wants to kick Kate in the soul repeatedly and never have anything good for more than a minute. 

If one needed to die it was obvious who it was going to have to be but it still sucked. Beth was originally pitched by one of the writers after MG said during a COIE meeting that they could use it to reboot their show and never an original part of their season plan so they weren't going to write for her for long but I was thinking a few more episodes. We got a glimpse for who Alice could have been but even in the best case scenario she was never going to be that in this reality so Kate made the right choice and that's going to really unhinge Alice. 

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I see them playing coy with who Kates supposed soulmate is. Yeah I see you show, trying to try some stuff out before you settle on an endgame love interest. Sophie is at least getting some better material, but I am still not super into her and Kate. 

The show still seems pretty set on it BTS but it's wise to keep their options open on screen as they're only on ep 12 of season 1 and the show doesn't need to confirm soulmate status with several seasons ahead. Otherwise if you go with a different option in the end for whatever reason you have to do a lot of walking back.

[rogvortex58]

Wow. If Alice was angry with Jacob before because she thought he gave up on her, I can only imagine how pissed off she’s going to be with Kate now for choosing Beth over her.

Still, I guess it’s only the middle of the season. Anything can happen between now and the finale.

[UNOSEZ]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Alice leaves and Kate goes to stop her, but Luke calls Kate back. Why?

Cause everyone us secretly tired of Kate trying to save that monster Alice.. And a proper innocent person was laying there in need of help..  Also,  they were in early stage crushing on each other... 

 

6 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

. I thought they might merge, so we’d still have crazy Alice, but occasionally the good parts of Beth would break through.

That woulda been cool,  because then it may have forced Mary and Luke at least to be more inclined to want to save Alice as it was a chance to save Beth as well... As it stands there is still a chance our Alice Learns from this... Sure in the moment she's all rage because Kate let her go.. But she knows why.. Catherine told her( which means she told herself)  and then Kate told her as she was dying... Her love for mouse and her really bad attempts to "help" kate prove she's capable of love on some level.. Finally the Doctor is back around and that's gonna do a number on her fragile mind state so who knows  how she reacts... 

 

I agree with others that keeping beth probably couldn't work.. But her being around a bit longer to cement a bond.. Especially with Mary and Luke would've been nice.. Possibly shading how they felt Bout Alice one way or the other

[Diapason Untuned]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, the ending wasn't necessarily shocking, besides with the who killed Beth part. But it was obvious that Beth was not surviving very long...it's just a shame that they couldn't have found a way to keep both around. It's frustrating because, narratively, it makes sense to kill Beth. But personally, I would have much rather they took the harder path in finding a way to keep Beth AND Alice alive.

It wouldn't even be hard. Just have Alice come back as an Encore(from Legends of Tomorrow) and have Beth use an image inducer or something to keep her around. But of course, that would require Beth to be more than a throwaway character, or for the shared universe to be more than an excuse for a yearly crossover...

Speaking of shared universes, Kate needs to learn from Kara's mistakes and pull Mary into the loop already. It's getting ridiculous now. If she knows about multiverses there's no reason to keep the truth from her.

[mrspidey]

Well, fuck this.

I wanted the actress to stay as an addition to the supporting cast, because i really dig her performance(s). 

We can't have that with Alice because as soon as her big bad arc is over she will, if at all, only ever have ocassional guest appearances like Eobard Thawne over on The Flash....

[Starry]

I get why only one between Alice and Beth could survive but this better mean they won't be able to resurrect all the Wellses over on Flash. But I already know I am setting myself up for disappointment.

The writers put Kate through the ringer in this one. First she finds out there was an Earth where her doppelgänger managed to rescue her sister after the crash, then she's forced to make a choice between saving her murderous evil twin or the good version who's never hurt anyone. Too bad Beth gets killed anyway and now Alice is alive and well and more vengeaful than ever. She's just found another reason to resent Kate. Poor Kate can't get a win. I can see her feeling like she keeps letting Beth down no matter what she does.

I knew the doctor was shady. It turns out he's Mouse's psycho dad. That was brilliant.

Why can't they just tell Mary the truth? I cringed when Kate and Luke brought Beth down to the Batcave but Mary was forced to give Kate the syringe outside the building. This secret identity plot better have a good pay-off.

I find Luke to be weirdly shippable. I sensed some chemistry between him and Beth in the previous episode and I got validated in this one. He and Mary have a good dynamic too and I'll never forget Kara's reaction to his doppelgänger in the crossover.

It was nice seeing Catherine again even though she was just a hallucination. I laughed when she told Alice she would save her a seat in hell.

[piperkat]

 One of my pet TV peeves is when the plot is moved forward solely by people being unconscionably stupid. Tonight‘s episode was a perfect example of that. 

Gee, Kate, you need to get someone out of the city without anyone seeing? Don’t you have a friend in National City who can be there in 5 minutes and fly Beth out of there?  And who has access to a high tech lab?  Maybe they can’t do it for BTS reasons, but they could at least address it in the show.

Then Alice was in the room with freaking Batwoman, plus a couple other people.  She’s not a meta-human nor particularly well trained. Kate and Luke could’ve taken her down in about four seconds.  And THEN both Beth and Alice were incapacitated, which would’ve been a perfect opportunity to break both of Alice’s kneecaps and haul her in to the Crows. And Kate didn’t do it, because...the person she has no idea how to help “needs your help”? 

Dude, you’ve kind of earned all the pain coming to you. Make better choices.

 

[Delphi]

On 2/17/2020 at 12:47 AM, BaggythePanther said:

 I thought they might merge, so we’d still have crazy Alice, but occasionally the good parts of Beth would break through. That could eventually lead to a redemption arc.

I thought they were going to do the whole merging thing as well. 

 

I also thought that perhaps they'd actually go full blown and just kill Alice and set up Mouse and his creepy dad as the villains for the rest of the season so they wouldn't have to lose Rachel as an actress.   Guess I'm not good with predictions. 

[quarks]

I thought this was a great episode in the sense of letting Ruby Rose and Rachel Skarsten show off their acting.

In terms of everything else, auugh.

To repeat points already made:

1. Dopplegangers are surviving just fine on Supergirl and possibly Flash. Look, I know the writers on this show tend to be insanely busy thanks to the WB's ongoing insistence that they double up as producer/writers (which is an entirely separate rant) so that getting together as a general group is difficult, BUT, yeah, a group meeting last summer to establish some very general rules about post-Crisis, like, how will dopplegangers work, would have been extremely helpful here. It's hard for me not to get irritated by this "ONLY ONE CAN LIVE" when the show that immediately follows it says, "Unless you work in an alien bar or are fortunate enough to be a regular on a different show!"

2. I see Batwoman isn't just taking over Arrow's "THE ANGST OF THE ARROWVERSE" slot, but also taking over Arrow's "Why aren't they calling Barry?" problem, made worse in the past couple of episodes because the script is name-dropping Star Labs, Barry, and Kara. It's not just that Barry, Kara and J'onn could have easily whisked Beth away to another location, it's that all three of them have access to highly trained Superhero Scientists who could presumably come up with a better temporary solution than "inject one doppleganger with your stepsister's blood." Or, failing that, been able to get more of those plants and speed create a second dose of the antidote.

Again, this would be less of a problem if the script hadn't JUST REMINDED US that Kate knows people with actual superpowers who could have helped here - without even necessarily appearing in the episode! A quick, "I just talked to Brainy at the DEO and he suggests...." would have sufficed.

3. While I'm at it, just how long would those antibodies survived in Mary's blood anyway? Was this something permanent like a tetanus vaccine, and if so, why could they only get one dose? I realize this is Fantasy Superhero Science but it should make some sense?

4. Letting us know that Kate has a soulmate, but not specifying said soulmate....sigh. First of all, as both Arrow and Flash and the Crisis on Earth-X crossover previously reminded us, your soulmate on one Earth is not necessarily your soulmate on this Earth (Barry and Iris, sure, everyone else, less so) so while it's all very nice to learn that Kate had a soulmate in another verse, that doesn't necessarily mean much for this Kate here, and, second, yes, show, we see you hedging your bets. And while I completely understand not wanting to commit to a specific soulmate in the first season of what might be several seasons, especially since - unlike Barry and Iris - there's no comics canon to stay with here, and I appreciate the recognition that Kate and Sophie have not exactly jumped to the top of the CW's Most Shippable Couples, this sort of teasing is annoying. Cut it out.

5. Catherine's appearance just reminded me that Arrow brought back Moira, so....is this supposed to be some sort of indication that Catherine's death is/will be more fundamental to Kate's development as Batwoman than Moira's death was to Oliver's transformation into Green Arrow/Spectre? Because if so, that honestly isn't supported by the canon of either show, and if not, see point one about chatting between shows above.

6. Why hasn't anyone told Mary that Kate is Batwoman, and for that matter, given that Mary remains the hands down most intelligent, sensible person on this show, why hasn't Mary figured it out? 

Mostly, I'm grumbling because I thought the Good Beth/Bad Alice storyline had a lot of potential, which got wasted on this pretty predictable "Oh, of COURSE Good Beth is going to get killed now. Of COURSE."

 

[Trini]

I have a few nitpicks, but otherwise, this was a pretty solid episode.

The main thing I didn't like is that I don't think we need Mouse's Abuser Dad as a character in the present. Was hoping that Alice and Mouse killing him was part of how they escaped.

[Rushmoras]

Well, that was a solid and strong episode,  without any unnecessary comoulsory social policies thrown in to the mix. Too bad that Supergirl has less and less of those.

I kinda would have liked for Sophie to be the one to pull the trigger, not Mouse's father. That would have been a much bigger catalizer and would have put up a big Stop sign in Kate's and Sophie's relationship, but alas...

 

[scarynikki12]

Until they say otherwise I’ve decided that the doppelgängers on Supergirl that we saw are all aliens and the “there cannot be two” thing only applies to humans. That or they all died at the end of that episode and we Kara doesn’t know yet. That’s how I keep the inconsistency from making my head explode. 

[opus]

8 hours ago, Delphi said:

I also thought that perhaps they'd actually go full blown and just kill Alice and set up Mouse and his creepy dad as the villains for the rest of the season so they wouldn't have to lose Rachel as an actress.   Guess I'm not good with predictions. 

And they'd still have the option to have Beth go crazy (for whatever reason) somewhere down the line, thus bringing back "Alice".

[rogvortex58]

I suspected the creepy Doctor would be Mouse’s father. But I’m surprised it hasn’t been him and Mouse who have been manipulating Alice this whole time. He doesn’t seem to want to have anything to do with him. Looks like he won’t have much of a choice.

At least this whole doppleganger thing is over with, so now Kate can get back to being Batwoman for the city.

Edited February 19, 2020 by rogvortex58

[Trini]

I think the most unbelievable thing in the episode was Alice having the Crows' phone number memorized.

Great episode for Rachel Skarsten; it just sucks that we'll probably never see Untraumatized Beth ever again.

I found it hilarious that during the commercial break Beth and Luke actually took the time to try to explain the multiverse/Crisis to Alice!

I liked that we got a few scenes with both Luke and Mary; they make a fun pairing.

Oh man, Alice is never going to get over Kate choosing to let her die. 😬

[ketose]

16 hours ago, Trini said:

I think the most unbelievable thing in the episode was Alice having the Crows' phone number memorized.

Great episode for Rachel Skarsten; it just sucks that we'll probably never see Untraumatized Beth ever again.

I found it hilarious that during the commercial break Beth and Luke actually took the time to try to explain the multiverse/Crisis to Alice!

I liked that we got a few scenes with both Luke and Mary; they make a fun pairing.

Oh man, Alice is never going to get over Kate choosing to let her die. 😬

Alice blames everyone for everything, She's a narcissist.

[immortalfrieza]

On 2/18/2020 at 10:55 AM, quarks said:

3. While I'm at it, just how long would those antibodies survived in Mary's blood anyway? Was this something permanent like a tetanus vaccine, and if so, why could they only get one dose? I realize this is Fantasy Superhero Science but it should make some sense?

 

 

That at least was explained. Apparently Mary still had some of the cure-all in her system (somehow) and that giving a dose to both of them wouldn't have done any good. They were both still dopplegangers of each other and were still in the same universe and thus would still be killing each other by simply existing. Giving a dose to both of them wouldn't have done anything but make them both feel better for a bit before they started dying all over again.

On that note, the whole "two dopplegangers in the same universe kills them both" is obviously just a stupid excuse to get rid of one of the Beths, and since Good Beth isn't interesting it had to be her. It would've made much much more sense for Alice to simply have kidnapped and then killed Beth, likely in an very gruesome and cruel fashion. Both thematically, as Alice literally killing the Beth side of her is appropriate and give Kate and everybody else another reason to want Alice gone, but in terms of continuity as well.

[possibilities]

Yes, they needed one of them to die, so the other could live. Saving them both was not an option, according to this show's doppelganger rule.

[Hanahope]

How did Sophie know where Luke was going with Beth?  And same with Father Mouse?  It’s bullshit that both ended up at the same right place before Luke even got there.

[Joe Hellandback]

On 2/17/2020 at 2:08 AM, MarquisDeCarabas said:

I knew it was going to happen, but that was some grade a bullshit. How the hell did he find them?

He had a radio that he took off the Crow at the hospital and was following their reports. 

On 2/17/2020 at 2:23 AM, Josh371982 said:

Sorry still don't feel for Sorry for POS Mouse. Hes a reason Alice/Beth is like she is and FUCK his dad too for killing Beth. Some grade a Bullshit. hey Alice maybe if you blamed the right people and not shown any instance of Being A sister to Kate Lately...  I do detest watching dark shows sometimes lol. Kate just cant get a win. Figured they Got Sebastian Roche to play a bigger role than first thought 

MOUSE is the one I cant stand and here in this episode we see how selfish he is and just wanted a playmate Fuck that she had a family. Hes just like his dad a pyschotic piece of shit. 

True but he does love Alice and he doesn't hurt kitties. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 2/17/2020 at 7:48 AM, AnimeMania said:

My two WTF moments were:

Beth and Alice are in the same room and one must die. Alice leaves and Kate goes to stop her, but Luke calls Kate back. Why?

Beth is safe in the Bat Cave. Alice is locked up in the infirmary. Why move Beth? Just call the Crows and tell them where Alice is really located.  

I guess Beth had to die, but I rather it was Alice. I am tired of how much air Alice is sucking up, aren't there any other criminals in Gotham. Batwoman spends more time fighting Drama than she does fighting Crime.

Yeah, a few more from the rogues gallery would be appreciated. Obviously I doubt we'll get any of the big names but Crazy Quilt, Kite Man, etc would be welcome.   

On 3/1/2020 at 1:56 AM, Hanahope said:

How did Sophie know where Luke was going with Beth?  And same with Father Mouse?  It’s bullshit that both ended up at the same right place before Luke even got there.

The Crows were tacking them using their tech and the Kitty killer had stolen a Crow radio off the guard at the hospital. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 2/21/2020 at 6:25 AM, Trini said:

I think the most unbelievable thing in the episode was Alice having the Crows' phone number memorized.

Great episode for Rachel Skarsten; it just sucks that we'll probably never see Untraumatized Beth ever again.

I found it hilarious that during the commercial break Beth and Luke actually took the time to try to explain the multiverse/Crisis to Alice!

I liked that we got a few scenes with both Luke and Mary; they make a fun pairing.

Oh man, Alice is never going to get over Kate choosing to let her die. 😬

I would imagine it's widely advertised as part of the manhunt? 

[Joe Hellandback]

1. Boy these poor Crow troopers really are the redshirts of the Bat universe, if they're not being killed off by Alice and co they're having their clocks cleaned by Batwoman.   

2. Go Mary, go Mary, smash her head in, go Mary...

3. Have to say the special effects with Beth/Alice in the same shot are excellent. 

4. Actually cheered when the hallucination of Catherine came to taunt Alice.

5. Equally Mary telling Alice to go stick it over the antidote was an excellent moment. 

6.  Nice little tension moment too, will Sophie notice Martha's swinging pearls? 

7. Where does Kate get off telling Sophie off about the manhunt after all Alice has done?

8. So Mary's blood is now a magical cure all for all ills? The scenes where they try to save Beth rather remind me of the Illyria/Fred storyline from Angel. 

9. What happened to Luke's taser? Why does not one try to subdue Alice when she appears?

10. Also pretty handy that Luke knows how to ride a bike? 

11. Mary tells Kate how it is, personally I wouldn't even have bothered, just tell her to take me to Beth and save her. 

12. Wasn't shocked by the ending but glad Sophie didn't shoot her. 

8/10 best ep yet. 

[John Potts]

If you're trying to get through a roadblock, maybe don't try to hide ineffectually but bluff your way through? Maybe surrender to the GCPD who (probably) won't shoot on sight if you go peacefully. Or negotiate a surrender in advance.

Given that Mouse already posed as Jake Kane, why did Mouse act so surprised that somebody else might have posed as Alice?

Go Mary! Actually beating Alice in a fight. OK, Alice got the better of her in the end, but at least Mary got the better of her initially.

OK, how did Mouse's dad (The Mad Hatter? False Face?) get Mouse out of his cell? I presume he overcame the guard (and took his jacket that we see him in later). Aren't there a ton  of security procedures involved, even if you do get out of the room he was in? Though on the subject of escapes - Mouse should be able to escape from his father's clutches because that chair already looked like it was giving out.

On 2/17/2020 at 2:03 AM, Writing Wrongs said:

We knew Beth would die, but it still sucks.

Maybe if Luke & Beth didn't stand around in the open when she was under a kill order it would have turned out differently! Though I would have laughed if Beth had died from rejection (generally not a good idea to inject somebody else's blood into you without type matching it first)

On 2/17/2020 at 5:47 AM, BaggythePanther said:

I knew Alice wasn’t going to die, but I was hoping we could still keep Beth somehow. I thought they might merge, so we’d still have crazy Alice, but occasionally the good parts of Beth would break through.

I assumed they'd find a way to send her back to her "home" dimension, but that could have been interesting.

On 2/17/2020 at 3:13 AM, tennisgurl said:

I see them playing coy with who Kate's supposed soulmate is.

Which is BS, because even if I bought the whole concept of Soulmates (which I don't), why would you think it's the same person? Hell, presumably in some Alternate Universes Kate is straight. Or a man. Or Robosexual. Or has a whole harem!

Edited June 8, 2020 by John Potts

[Joe Hellandback]

On 6/8/2020 at 12:10 PM, John Potts said:

If you're trying to get through a roadblock, maybe don't try to hide ineffectually but bluff your way through? Maybe surrender to the GCPD who (probably) won't shoot on sight if you go peacefully. Or negotiate a surrender in advance.

Given that Mouse already posed as Jake Kane, why did Mouse act so surprised that somebody else might have posed as Alice?

Go Mary! Actually beating Alice in a fight. OK, Alice got the better of her in the end, but at least Mary got the better of her initially.

OK, how did Mouse's dad (The Mad Hatter? False Face?) get Mouse out of his cell? I presume he overcame the guard (and took his jacket that we see him in later). Aren't there a ton  of security procedures involved, even if you do get out of the room he was in? Though on the subject of escapes - Mouse should be able to escape from his father's clutches because that chair already looked like it was giving out.

Maybe if Luke & Beth didn't stand around in the open when she was under a kill order it would have turned out differently! Though I would have laughed if Beth had died from rejection (generally not a good idea to inject somebody else's blood into you without type matching it first)

I assumed they'd find a way to send her back to her "home" dimension, but that could have been interesting.

Which is BS, because even if I bought the whole concept of Soulmates (which I don't), why would you think it's the same person? Hell, presumably in some Alternate Universes Kate is straight. Or a man. Or Robosexual. Or has a whole harem!

I never considered that although I'm not up on the multiverse, do those other earths still exist? 

[quarks]

15 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

I never considered that although I'm not up on the multiverse, do those other earths still exist? 

Some of them do.  The Earths that were on the CW channel (Supergirl, Flash, Arrow, Black Lightning, Batwoman, Legends of Tomorrow and the upcoming Superman and Lois) got smushed together with some other Earths, while the Earths that were initially intended to only be on DC Universe/HBO Max (Stargirl) and/or in the DC films still exist.

As a pragmatic matter this lets the films continue to ignore whatever is happening on TV and vice versa, while also giving the films an excuse to do a complete reset if wanted/needed.

It also probably means that the Arrowverse will stop trying to do multiverse stories, with the key word there being probably.