S04.E12: A Hell of a Week: Part Two

[Bulldog]

So basically Sophie is the sheep (that which Kevin wants, but can't have because it has already been given to someone else) while Madison is the tiger (the substitute for the sheep that Kevin accepts, but clearly does not prefer -- and takes to bed with him!).  And, before anybody gets their knickers in a twist, I'm trying to make a metaphor, not compare women to inanimate objects.  

[Haleth]

Kudos to posters last week who guessed that it was Madison with Kevin.  I thought that was a ridiculous notion and stand corrected.  But at the risk of being wrong again I'll say I don't think this will be a long term relationship.  There is no chemistry there.

I didn't like that Kevin spent more time talking about his own pain with Sophie than comforting her.  He sounded like Megan McCain: "I'm sorry for your loss, but let me tell you about how much grief I'm feeling over my own loss."  Too much Pearson speechifying, but I guess Sophie would know what's in his heart if not his words.

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I do hope the Sophie chapter is closed. Just because people have good memories and a love for each other doesn’t mean they belong together. 

Exactly.  They tried.  Twice.  People don't change that much but do fall back into old habits.  They may continue to love each other forever, but they shouldn't be together.  It's not healthy.

I did love their game of proposing endings to Good Will Hunting.  Decades of a silly joke to remind them of their bond.  So sweet.  But now that is over as is the chance they will be together again.

[JKL845]

They don't want to close the book on Kevin and Sophie. They wouldn't have had Kevin ask her mother for the grandmother's engagement ring and get that whole backstory on it. And just in case us viewers didn't notice Sophie's engagement ring wasn't an emerald they had Kevin ask her directly if that was her grandmother's ring. Sophie made sure all of us knew that no, no it isn't. If Sophie had been wearing her grandmother's ring we would at least know that her mother thought she was marrying the right man. Or if at the end when Sophie was looking at the ring, she took off her engagement ring and put on her grandmother's ring and closed the ring box we would know that Sophie thought she was marrying the right man. But that didn't happen. The whole thing with the ring was in this episode for a reason...to keep the possibilities open. 

I have no idea who is endgame but I think they want to keep their options open and us guessing until the final season maybe. Because even if by this seasons finale we find out who his pregnant fiancée is, doesn't mean they're endgame. 

I like that the grieving, engaged, Sophie wasn't the one in bed with Kevin. That would have been so wrong for both of them. It will be interesting to see where things go with Madison. Was it a one night stand or will it be more? At this point Kevin wasn't happy with what happened and wants to get far away from her. If Madison does turn out to be his future fiancée, it would have been great if when Kevin saw her stirring, he got a smile on his face, told his siblings he had to go and jumped on her, kissing her & said something like "how about one more time before I take you to breakfast?".

I thought it was a really good episode.

Edited January 29, 2020 by JKL845

[ShadowFacts]

6 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

I'm not mad exactly that Kevin slept with Madison (I like Madison and think she deserves an immeasurably better best friend than fucking Kate), but I do not think anything about his demeanor at the end of the episode implied that he was really happy to have slept with her (and, frankly, Sophie's demeanor with the rings made it clear to me that she's not necessarily happy with where she is either).  Quite the opposite, in fact, and I don't get anything from the two of them – no real chemistry or spark or anything.  The way Kevin and Sophie were looking at each other in the car, though...yeah, that's everything.

I agree.  There's no spark with Madison at all, he was eager to get out of Dodge when Randall called.  He is heading right back to Pennsylvania, where his past and Sophie are, so there's something unfinished about all of that.  And yes, Sophie and Kevin's connection is very much alive.  Not just on his part, she not only had her ring-gazing moment at the end, she left her mother's funeral reception where her fiance was (probably not knowing many people) for some period of time, and told Kevin she can't believe she's going to spend the rest of her life with someone who barely knew her mother.  So the door is open, not just a crack, the way I see it.  He may try to find something new to love with Madison, but I don't know if it will work.  This episode was as much about Sophie as it was about Kevin.  We only got glimpses into Cassidy's sad home life, and know nothing about Madison besides her sidekick to Kate status.  Sophie has been fleshed out more than Miguel, for example, so I am not convinced she's out of the picture just yet.

[Lady Calypso]

I could definitely see Sophie/Kevin happening eventually...but I think it'll be way down the road. I like the speculation that the reason Rebecca is staying with Kevin in the flashforwards is because he has Sophie as a nurse caring for her. So I don't think I could completely write off the possibility of Sophie/Kevin. I just think that, in the present day, their chapter is closed. She won't be the baby mama or fiancee of Kevin, not in the short time span that we have left, not when Sophie is still engaged to Grant (and weird that we never saw his face; it does seem to imply that Sophie will come back in a bigger role with the guy in tow). And honestly, that's ok. Kevin JUST picked up his life. Sophie doesn't need the worry that Kevin will go back to his old ways. They need more time. He may feel ready, but I don't think it's right now.

As for Madison/Kevin, I still like the idea of these two ending up together. It's probably the best case scenario for Kevin at the moment. He can't afford to backslide into old habits, which is what he could have done with Sophie, and we know that he needs to be looking forward right now. Cassidy is also a bad choice because she's trying to pick up her life and he can't afford to fall back into his addiction either. And a new woman would feel too rushed and would probably make it feel like Kevin hasn't grown that much if he's rushing right back into a fast relationship. 

So, Madison is kind of that middle ground. Yes, he's still somewhat rushing into things with her, but what is a plus is that they've known each other for four years, so they're already familiar with each other. A negative to this is that she's Kate's friend...as we saw on his face after they slept together, it was likely a big mistake to sleep with Kate's friend. That kind of adds to the backsliding a little bit for Kevin. 

But, I think it could be done well. 

At least this episode showed me that I'd be fine with Sophie/Kevin completely (and how much they underused Alexandra in season 2).  But right now, logically, they shouldn't be together. 

[Neurochick]

I am glad that Kevin and Sophie didn't hook up.  A lot of folks on Twitter were upset, but that's because we've all been raised on romcoms that says if you have that ONE TRUE LOVE, you have to be together, no matter what.

I read a book in the late 80's called "Why Love Is Not Enough."  Basically the book said that if love were enough, no one who loved each other when they got married would ever divorce, that just love isn't enough to keep a marriage together.  

Kevin and Sophie got married, then got divorced, then tried again but it didn't work out.  Maybe it was because Kevin was drinking, maybe not.  Sophie and Kevin love each other, but Sophie was probably thinking, "I've tried this twice with Kevin and it didn't work.  Do I want to try a third time?"  

I also think that what binds Kevin and Sophie more than anything else is the history between them.  Sophie commented that her fiance didn't even know her mother the way Kevin did.  They share a history, a past but that doesn't mean they can have a successful relationship.

[PRgal]

Did they not know when Kevin’s episode was going to air?  Or are we just assuming that Rebecca doesn’t know how to set the VCR?  

[JKL845]

3 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Did they not know when Kevin’s episode was going to air?  Or are we just assuming that Rebecca doesn’t know how to set the VCR?  

Kevin told Rebecca that his lines got cut so she thought that meant that he wasn't going to be in it at all. She was wrong and didn't record it or watch it.

[Ohiopirate02]

58 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I didn't like that Kevin spent more time talking about his own pain with Sophie than comforting her.  He sounded like Megan McCain: "I'm sorry for your loss, but let me tell you about how much grief I'm feeling over my own loss."  Too much Pearson speechifying, but I guess Sophie would know what's in his heart if not his words.

 

I had the opposite reaction.  I saw Kevin giving Sophie some perspective about her grief.  Her speech at the funeral talking about how she would never be able to go back to her coffee shop.  Kevin understood that, he has a place just like that in his life and he took her there to show her that with time, she would be able to walk in there again.  Sophie is deep in her grief right now and cannot see the forest for the trees as it were.  Kevin was trying to give her the ability to do that.  I loved Kevin in this episode.  He was so mature.  He showed up to the funeral at the last minute, sat in the back, but also let Sophie know he was there.  He chose not to enter the house afterwards and called Sophie to tell her he was there.  I thought he was very attentive to her needs which we have seen is Kevin deep down.  Kevin also had reasons to mourn Claire, but he didn't make it about him.  Then he had his own moment at the cemetery.  Where he was able to buy a bottle of Prosecco and not drink it.  Kevin really is maturing and working his program.  

I also loved that Kevin's new way of dealing with his emotions is to cuddle his nephew.  

[ShadowFacts]

8 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also loved that Kevin's new way of dealing with his emotions is to cuddle his nephew.  

Apparently Madison was second best.  It's hard to be second fiddle to a cute baby :).

Rebecca sure wasted no time in getting rid of Kevin's mobile, they just got their new toddler beds and the stuff is already at Goodwill.  I know, Marie Kondo and all, but give it a minute.  I wonder what made her keep the Pin the Tail on the Donkey set.

As for Kevin's first role being on Days of our Lives, wasn't that filmed on the west coast?  Kevin and Sophie were living in New York and apparently pretty broke, it must have been because he spent some cash getting out to California.  A New York soap would have made more sense, but Days is NBC, I get it.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

As for Kevin's first role being on Days of our Lives, wasn't that filmed on the west coast?  Kevin and Sophie were living in New York and apparently pretty broke, it must have been because he spent some cash getting out to California.  A New York soap would have made more sense, but Days is NBC, I get it.

As far as I know, Days has always filmed on the west coast, but it's an NBC property so I let that slide.  It's a small error when the show continues to have scenes in Pittsburgh in January without a hint of snow on the ground and the characters wearing thin coats.  

[Wouldofshouldof]

6 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It's a small error when the show continues to have scenes in Pittsburgh in January without a hint of snow on the ground and the characters wearing thin coats. 

And don't get me started with what Shameless does with Chicago and its weather.

[ams1001]

8 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Well color me pissed off.  I did not know this was airing this week and I tuned into New Amsterdam and saw the tail end.  Now I have to wait until NBC has the episode up on the website.

I did the exact same thing! I was watching American Ninja Warrior from Sunday instead. For a second I thought I was seeing an ad for next week but then I realized it was actually the end of the episode and checked TV Guide. My plan is to get out of work on time so I get home before 6:00, so I can watch on demand before Jeopardy. (My TV schedule is very tight. 😉 ) I debated if I wanted to read comments, but I've never much cared about spoilers so I read the thread. I'll save the recaps for after, though.

[gonzosgirrl]

Claire's mantra to the kids, especially Kevin, was 'never setlle' and that's what they are both doing.  I think we saw that signed photo and Sophie comparing rings for a reason. And yeah, if a guy is trying to sneak out of the room while I'm still asleep,  looks like he just ate a bad piece of fish, and tells his siblings he's sad, immediately after sex with me,  I'm not gonna have a lot of confidence in our future together. 

#TeamSevin or is it #TeamKophie? 

Edited January 29, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[zoey1996]

6 hours ago, Adgirl said:

I thought she was a flake at first too but I also wondered if maybe she knew she was sick by then and figured a big vacation with her daughter would be a better use of her money.  

Yes, a bit of a flake.  Who plans a big vacation with her newly-wed daughter without discussing it first?

[BuckeyeLou]

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Rebecca not watching "Days," reminded me that she didn't watch, "The Manny," and once when Kevin was upset he  said that she had never come to any of his plays.  I can't understand that, and she's so oblivious to how hurt he is over it.  It's one reason I didn't like the Rebecca character for the first few seasons.

I like Madison for Kevin but I hope she didn't get pregnant just days after breaking up with the old boyfriend. 

Ita!  Rebecca bugs me when she overlooks Kevin.  She cant bother to watch Kevin's TV appearance but she can take care of Randall's "Undies".  No wonder Kevin was always craving attention, and he did get it from Sophie's Mom. 

[wonderwoman]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

As for Kevin's first role being on Days of our Lives, wasn't that filmed on the west coast?  Kevin and Sophie were living in New York and apparently pretty broke, it must have been because he spent some cash getting out to California.  A New York soap would have made more sense, but Days is NBC, I get it.

yeah — that was an issue on friends, as well. i could hand wave that joey’s character on days was sort of a lead, and it would have made sense for him to fly to la. but kevin’s part was little more than an extra — an under five — no way a ny actor flies to la for that.

speaking of soaps — the kevin/sophie/madison set up is a classic soap trope. for the kevin/sophie shippers, remember agnes nixon’s storytelling technique (and apparently charles dickens, as well): “make them laugh, make them cry, make them wait.”

i don’t know that i’m a shipper, per se, but this episode convinced me that while kevin and sophie may or may not be the end game, their story’s not done yet. kudos to the writers for leaving themselves so many options here. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by wonderwoman

[Jax7917]

I think Sophie is very much still in love with Kevin , but I think Kevin is very much in love with their past and their story . I feel like he so wants to love her like he used to , but he left her a couple of times already and hasn’t seemed too interested in getting her back . He seems like any girl will do for him , so long as it’s a cute story . 
that being said , I do think they’ll be end game , but I’m not sure she’ll be his baby mama . I knew it wasn’t going to be Sophie in the bed , but I still think the show is toying with us and she could still possibly be the baby mama . He mentions in the flash forward that the woman is his fiancé , so maybe things happened between them and he finally got to propose with that ring . 

[Cheyanne11]

I'm glad, too, that it wasn't Sophie in bed with him, because given her grieving state, it just would've been more of the same with them, ie not the right time.  I do, however, think they're end game.  Between Sophie looking at her grandmother's engagement ring at the end, to her mother, in flashbacks telling Kevin he had to "earn it," to Kevin talking at her grave telling her he "made it" (I don't think he just meant professionally, but that he was in a good place in his life)?  All signs point to Sophie being the pregnant fiancée.

Having said that, now watch it be Madison.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 hours ago, Nilknarf said:

I had trouble telling Madison and Sophie apart. Maybe that’s denial because I sure don’t want it to be Madison in that bed.

I noticed this week that the actress playing teen Sophie resembles Madison a lot at certain angles.

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I am glad that Kevin and Sophie didn't hook up.  A lot of folks on Twitter were upset, but that's because we've all been raised on romcoms that says if you have that ONE TRUE LOVE, you have to be together, no matter what.

I read a book in the late 80's called "Why Love Is Not Enough."  Basically the book said that if love were enough, no one who loved each other when they got married would ever divorce, that just love isn't enough to keep a marriage together.  

Kevin and Sophie got married, then got divorced, then tried again but it didn't work out.  Maybe it was because Kevin was drinking, maybe not.  Sophie and Kevin love each other, but Sophie was probably thinking, "I've tried this twice with Kevin and it didn't work.  Do I want to try a third time?"  

I also think that what binds Kevin and Sophie more than anything else is the history between them.  Sophie commented that her fiance didn't even know her mother the way Kevin did.  They share a history, a past but that doesn't mean they can have a successful relationship.

ITA with all of this. When I broke up with my first serious boyfriend he said, "Don't you love me anymore?" I had to tell him that as much as I loved him and as much history we had together, that wasn't enough. You can love someone and not be good together. You can love someone and realize that you aren't compatible. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do is be honest and end things.

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA with all of this. When I broke up with my first serious boyfriend he said, "Don't you love me anymore?" I had to tell him that as much as I loved him and as much history we had together, that wasn't enough. You can love someone and not be good together. You can love someone and realize that you aren't compatible. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do is be honest and end things.

I think because our society puts such a huge emphasis on romantic love that lasts forever, people tend to think that if a relationship doesn't last forever, it wasn't worth anything. I don't believe that. My friend dated a man for a few years and really loved him but they broke up three or four times, always for the same reason. When he finally called it quits for good, he said "I don't think we're compatible." And they weren't. They were different in a way that could not be overcome and they parted ways. Doesn't mean they weren't good people or that their feelings weren't real or that the relationship wasn't important; just that they weren't right for each other. Millions of people aren't right for us.

Kevin and Sophie have been down this road twice and it hasn't worked out. I completely believe that they loved each other, and I completely believe that theirs was a really significant relationship for both of them - the show has really sold that. But that doesn't mean they should be together now.

I don't think Kevin and Madison are end game; nothing about Kevin's comportment afterward said "I'm glad I did this and it's the start of something promising." And for all we know, Madison isn't interested in Kevin That Way either and this was just "I got dumped and I want to feel better" sex and she slept with Kevin instead of getting on Tinder. They say the best way to get over someone is to get under someone else. (When Kevin said he'd never been dumped and Madison said "Why would you say that to me right now?" I cracked up.)

1 hour ago, JKL845 said:

Kevin told Rebecca that his lines got cut so she thought that meant that he wasn't going to be in it at all. She was wrong and didn't record it or watch it.

Yeah, this struck me as an honest mistake. I can get on her for not watching The Manny but I can understand how hearing "my lines got cut" translates to "I got cut" and not bothering to set the VCR. If it's a show that you have to go out of your way to watch (as all daytime soaps are, for me, and I assume for Rebecca too since she works full-time), I could see being like "Oh, OK, I won't bother since the reason I was going to watch it isn't happening."

The other funny moment was when M. Night Shyamalan gave this perfect beat and made a face and said " ...Do you want to talk about it?" and Kevin immediately leapt in with all his stuff. The timing there was excellent.

[Laurie4H]

17 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Having said that, now watch it be Madison

I’m thinking it could be since she made a reference to her age being 33.  Better age to become pregnant.  Sophie is or will be 40.  Just another perspective.  He might propose to Madison only because he got her pregnant but in the end who knows if it will work out. 

[qtpye]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I really liked this episode, I am glad to get a Kevin episode, and to get more context on his relationship with Sophie. Little Kevin is so cute! 

I have always been kind of so so on Sophie (didnt dislike her or wasnt a huge fan) but I really enjoyed getting to know her more here, and I found her story here really touching. I did kind of crack up at her mom saying how the ring has a story, because of course it does! Its not just Pearson's, everyone has dramatic family stories and traditions and heirlooms and such! 

I so knew it was going to be Madison and that she and Kevin had a vibe, called it! A part of me thinks that this is a nice cap on the end of Sophie and Kevin's romance and gives them closure so that they can both move on...and the other part hopes that the look Sophie gave the ring means that she ends up proposing with the ring and she is Kevin's future baby mamma! What can I say, I got into them this week. 

This ring has an amazing story which is that someone went to a jeweler located in the mall to buy it. Yeah, that would not be up to par for a Pearson.

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Rebecca not watching "Days," reminded me that she didn't watch, "The Manny," and once when Kevin was upset he  said that she had never come to any of his plays.  I can't understand that, and she's so oblivious to how hurt he is over it.  It's one reason I didn't like the Rebecca character for the first few seasons.

I like Madison for Kevin but I hope she didn't get pregnant just days after breaking up with the old boyfriend. 

 

18 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Ita!  Rebecca bugs me when she overlooks Kevin.  She cant bother to watch Kevin's TV appearance but she can take care of Randall's "Undies".  No wonder Kevin was always craving attention, and he did get it from Sophie's Mom. 

Rebecca and Kevin have been in a weird cycle for a long time. She overlooks his feelings and he acts self centered around her. Randall has always been a comfort to Rebecca and he does naturally thoughtful things for her. After Jack died Randall changed his college plans and a chance to really connect with his heritage so he could be close to his mother and take care of her. Kevin went to go live his own life which is perfectly fine.

I think Rebecca is more at fault because she is the mother.

Kevin pulls away from her as a child because he feels ignored and she interprets this behavior as this kid does not needing or liking  her very much. Also, because the twins had a bond that probably left Randall as the odd man out and perhaps that also made her give him more attention.

When I told my husband that M. knight was on the show, he asked if it was because Jack Pearson saved him from a burning building when he was younger.

This episode made me want a sequel to Good Will Hunting...RIP Robin Williams.

That movie ended with the protagonist going after the girl to be romantic, when in real life Matt Damon and Minnie Driver had a messy break up. I guess don’t look to Hollywood for realistic depictions of relationships.

[Blakeston]

I've often been disgusted by Rebecca's complete lack of interest in Kevin's career, but I don't fault her for not watching Days of Our Lives. I can totally understand why she thought Kevin's entire appearance was cut.

I'd like to believe that the Kevin/Madison stuff was a one-time thing, but at the end of the day I don't believe it. The whole reason so many of us predicted that Madison was the mystery woman is because the actress is the show creator's wife, and he naturally has reason to keep some focus on her character. A one-night-stand doesn't do much to accomplish that.

I won't be at all surprised if Sophie and Kevin are endgame, but I suspect that Madison is the fiancee with morning sickness. i don't care for the idea of them as a couple, because I think Kevin needs someone more like Zoe - someone intelligent with a lot of common sense, who can keep him grounded and challenge him. The last thing he needs is someone who's vapid and image-obsessed...the way he is, when he's at his worst.

[Empress1]

15 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I think Kevin needs someone more like Zoe

Zoe is my favorite of Kevin's love interests. They absolutely should not be together (again: incompatible) now, but I liked their relationship when they were in it.

I was today years old when I found out that the actress who plays Madison is married to the show creator. You'd think he'd encourage the writers to write Kate so that she treats Madison with a little more respect.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I don't fault Rebecca for getting rid of the sheep mobile. That is something you put over a baby's crib and not a toddler's bed, plus hadn't they just moved? Good time to get rid of stuff. It's entirely plausible that she didn't know how much it comforted Kevin. I do fault her for not watching Kevin in his very first TV appearance. She should have talked to Kevin about it when he told her his line was cut and been aware that he was still in the show. She asked Randall three times about his "weird dream" but couldn't be bothered to ask Kevin about his experience taping Days? It's not the worst sin in the world to not show 100% interest in someone else but when it's her child and it's his first big job, it bugs.

At this moment, I do not want Madison and Kevin together. However, we haven't seen much of her so far so it's possible they could swing me in her direction. Mainly what I remember about her is how she told all those overweight people in that support group that her wrists were fat. She's been a good friend to Kate, though.

I'm really liking the Hell of a Week trilogy so far, hopefully they can keep it up with what in my opinion is the weakest link, Kate. Not because I hate Kate but I don't think the writing for her has been as strong as for Randall and Kevin. Just based on the one sided phone calls with her teen boyfriend, he seems abusive. She's constantly asking what she's done wrong and why he's so angry. And then he leaves her on the side of the road? Red flags abound.

[ErinV]

Wasn't Kevin sort of dumped by that awful woman from the theater?  

Every time teen Kevin speaks, he seems snarky and sarcastic to me.  Maybe it's the hair 🙂 But especially in this ep, when he was supposed to be acting sincere, I had a hard time buying it.

 

[ShadowFacts]

38 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

The other funny moment was when M. Night Shyamalan gave this perfect beat and made a face and said " ...Do you want to talk about it?" and Kevin immediately leapt in with all his stuff. The timing there was excellent.

Yes, and then M. Night didn't want to hear it, just cut to the chase, we're on a tight schedule.  That was good.

16 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I won't be at all surprised if Sophie and Kevin are endgame, but I suspect that Madison is the fiancee with morning sickness. i don't care for the idea of them as a couple, because I think Kevin needs someone more like Zoe - someone intelligent with a lot of common sense, who can keep him grounded and challenge him. The last thing he needs is someone who's vapid and image-obsessed...the way he is, when he's at his worst.

I'm beginning to think, or maybe it's been obvious and it's just now hitting me, that Kevin uses sex to self-soothe.  He was feeling sad, he was feeling bad, there was Madison, bam.  They don't have a relationship, he's known her for some years now, but there has been no apparent interest on either of their parts in the other.  She could be pregnant, he could be wanting that couple and family he has set out for, but I don't see a love story there.  Not the way it's been set up.  It just seemed like a cheap surprise/not surprise deal to me.

[kicksave]

Guess I'm alone on here with a thumbs down for this episode. Kevin bedding another woman...yawn fest. Is there any woman he doesn't see for five minutes that he doesn't end up banging? Honestly, this is just ridiculous. Sex addiction? I don't know and I don't care...this arc is boring. All I know is that without a lot Milo Ventimiglia in it is just not as good as it was before. 

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm beginning to think, or maybe it's been obvious and it's just now hitting me, that Kevin uses sex to self-soothe.  He was feeling sad, he was feeling bad, there was Madison, bam.  They don't have a relationship, he's known her for some years now, but there has been no apparent interest on either of their parts in the other.  She could be pregnant, he could be wanting that couple and family he has set out for, but I don't see a love story there.  Not the way it's been set up.  It just seemed like a cheap surprise/not surprise deal to me.

I also think Kevin hooked up with Madison because he saw her hurting from her most recent breakup.  This is Kevin who when he sees someone hurting wants to help.  I hope this is just a case of two people who are hurting who seek one night of comfort.  Maybe we get Madison next week waking up and telling Kevin "thanks, see ya around."  

One think that Madison does have going for her in my opinion is the fact that while she has been a character since season one we don't know that much about her.  The writers have the room to make her into a good match for Kevin if they are planning on going that way.  Madison was able to forge a friendship with a rather prickly Kate, which makes me think she has some hidden depths.  

[Cheyanne11]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm beginning to think, or maybe it's been obvious and it's just now hitting me, that Kevin uses sex to self-soothe.  He was feeling sad, he was feeling bad, there was Madison, bam. 

Correlation to Toddler Kevin wanting his mobile and when he couldn't have that, immediately found comfort with the stuffed tiger.

[Lady Calypso]

21 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't fault Rebecca for getting rid of the sheep mobile. That is something you put over a baby's crib and not a toddler's bed, plus hadn't they just moved? Good time to get rid of stuff.

I don't fault Rebecca at all for donating the baby stuff to Goodwill. But, I dunno, I'd think that Rebecca would be the type to hang on to some of those things for longer than three years. 

15 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

One think that Madison does have going for her in my opinion is the fact that while she has been a character since season one we don't know that much about her.  The writers have the room to make her into a good match for Kevin if they are planning on going that way.  Madison was able to forge a friendship with a rather prickly Kate, which makes me think she has some hidden depths.  

This is true. I think that Madison and Kevin share some similarities that make me think that they could theoretically work. 

I also think back to the one episode where Kate was actually a genuine friend toward Madison, the episode where Madison took Kate to shop for wedding dresses, Kate snapped at her, and Madison relapsed with her eating disorder. It showed a different side to Madison there, one that has her own issues and demons, even if they're different than Kate's. 

I kind of like the fact that Madison hasn't been explored a lot, but we still know a little bit about her. I like that they haven't overused her, even with the actress being married to the creator. 

I mean, honestly, I've always been Team Single Kevin, but Sophie or Madison being endgame works fine for me. 

[AriAu]

Quote

 Kevin bedding another woman...yawn fest. Is there any woman he doesn't see for five minutes that he doesn't end up banging? Honestly, this is just ridiculous. 

This eliminates any question that Kevin thinks solely with his dick....or at least does at this point in his life. It doesn't mean he isnt a perfectly nice fellow and was kind enough to show up for the funeral for one of his biggest fans, but he makes lots and lots of bad decisions and very often they come from one of 2 places-(i) trying to live up to Jack Pearson or (ii) his dick (or his ego disguised as his dick).

Quote

won't be at all surprised if Sophie and Kevin are endgame, but I suspect that Madison is the fiancee with morning sickness. i don't care for the idea of them as a couple, because I think Kevin needs someone more like Zoe - someone intelligent with a lot of common sense, who can keep him grounded and challenge him. The last thing he needs is someone who's vapid and image-obsessed...the way he is, when he's at his worst.

Yes, he needs someone strong enough to stand up to both of his driving forces...and Madison is sooooooooo not that person. She is a door mat that gets dumped and then jumps into bed with the brother of her best friend who happens to be a movie star and with whom she has no relationship despite many opportunities. I will be very disappointed if his baby mama is just another "fan girl". 

[Jillybean]

29 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

One think that Madison does have going for her in my opinion is the fact that while she has been a character since season one we don't know that much about her.  The writers have the room to make her into a good match for Kevin if they are planning on going that way.  Madison was able to forge a friendship with a rather prickly Kate, which makes me think she has some hidden depths.  

I'm curious to know whether she ever sought treatment for her body dysmorphic disorder. It seems like that was dropped, but I'm not confident that she and addict Kevin would make a healthy match. And he woke up wanting to fly cross-country after sex with her. Hardly a harbinger of a great love story in the making. With an entire episode dedicated to Kevin and Sophie, my money's on them as endgame.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Jillybean

[qtpye]

51 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Zoe is my favorite of Kevin's love interests. They absolutely should not be together (again: incompatible) now, but I liked their relationship when they were in it.

I was today years old when I found out that the actress who plays Madison is married to the show creator. You'd think he'd encourage the writers to write Kate so that she treats Madison with a little more respect.

I wonder if this is why Madison gets such a positive edit compared to Kate.

47 minutes ago, ErinV said:

Wasn't Kevin sort of dumped by that awful woman from the theater?  

Every time teen Kevin speaks, he seems snarky and sarcastic to me.  Maybe it's the hair 🙂 But especially in this ep, when he was supposed to be acting sincere, I had a hard time buying it.

 

This an unpopular opinion but I have never liked the casting of Teen Kevin. He just seems so creepy to me. Toddler Kevin is adorable.

Edited January 29, 2020 by qtpye

[ErinV]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Zoe is my favorite of Kevin's love interests. They absolutely should not be together (again: incompatible) now, but I liked their relationship when they were in it.

I was today years old when I found out that the actress who plays Madison is married to the show creator. You'd think he'd encourage the writers to write Kate so that she treats Madison with a little more respect.

Zoe!  Another one who dumped Kevin!  

 

[ErinV]

11 minutes ago, qtpye said:

This an unpopular opinion but I have never liked the casting of Teen Kevin. He just seems so creepy to me. Toddler Kevin is adorable.

Agreed.  My favorite is 10 yo Kevin.  
UO but I also don't like teen Randall.  He says things really fast and then stands there with his mouth hanging open.  I can't see what the heck Beth sees in him.  I like him more as an adult.

[3 is enough]

10 minutes ago, ErinV said:

Zoe!  Another one who dumped Kevin!  

 

I was just about to say the same thing.  He has been dumped.

[ShadowFacts]

1 minute ago, 3 is enough said:

I was just about to say the same thing.  He has been dumped.

And then there's Sophie, twice.  He just doesn't allow himself to see it that way.

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

After Jack died Randall changed his college plans and a chance to really connect with his heritage so he could be close to his mother and take care of her. Kevin went to go live his own life which is perfectly fine.

I think Rebecca is more at fault because she is the mother.

Except it wasn't perfectly fine; Rebecca spoke angrily (in the family therapy session, I think?) of being "abandoned" by Kevin because he left home for college after Jack died.  Had I been in that therapy session now, I would have pointed out that it's not the child's responsibility to give up college/life opportunities for a fully functional parent. I felt for Kevin in that moment because one of my parents tried to undermine my confidence about being successful in college out of the area, due to wanting to be taken care of/desire to not take responsibility as an adult for their own life.  I think Rebecca always considered Randall to be the "good son" because he changed his plans to take care of her when she was so shattered by losing Jack. 

Rebecca was the adult, the mother. She was definitely more at fault. 

[Empress1]

21 minutes ago, ErinV said:

Zoe!  Another one who dumped Kevin!  

Right - he HAS been dumped. I wonder if Kevin is like Anne Perkins on Parks and Rec when she didn't realize Chris had broken up with her a few times?

[qtpye]

1 minute ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Except it wasn't perfectly fine; Rebecca spoke angrily (in the family therapy session, I think?) of being "abandoned" by Kevin because he left home for college after Jack died.  Had I been in that therapy session now, I would have pointed out that it's not the child's responsibility to give up college/life opportunities for a fully functional parent. I felt for Kevin in that moment because one of my parents tried to undermine my confidence about being successful in college out of the area, due to wanting to be taken care of/desire to not take responsibility as an adult for their own life.  I think Rebecca always considered Randall to be the "good son" because he changed his plans to take care of her when she was so shattered by losing Jack. 

Rebecca was the adult, the mother. She was definitely more at fault. 

It seems like Rebecca, being born into some privilege, automatically assumes the men in her life will drop everything to take care of her.  It started with her dad and Jack did the same. Kate also does this as well to some degree.

Beth is lucky that Rebecca is not a narcissist, otherwise she would have totally sabotaged their relationship to keep Randall to herself. 

[Jillybean]

Double post, apparently.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Jillybean

[Ohiopirate02]

19 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Except it wasn't perfectly fine; Rebecca spoke angrily (in the family therapy session, I think?) of being "abandoned" by Kevin because he left home for college after Jack died.  Had I been in that therapy session now, I would have pointed out that it's not the child's responsibility to give up college/life opportunities for a fully functional parent. I felt for Kevin in that moment because one of my parents tried to undermine my confidence about being successful in college out of the area, due to wanting to be taken care of/desire to not take responsibility as an adult for their own life.  I think Rebecca always considered Randall to be the "good son" because he changed his plans to take care of her when she was so shattered by losing Jack. 

Rebecca was the adult, the mother. She was definitely more at fault. 

And honestly, Kevin didn't immediately move to New York to be with Sophie.  Jack died at the end of January.  The earliest Kevin could have moved to New York would have been June, but I suspect he didn't move until mid to late August.  Kevin was home for months with Rebecca.  Kevin didn't abandon her, he moved out the same way thousands of us did back in August of 98.  Deciding not to put your life on hold months after losing your father is not abandonment in my book.

I personally did a Randall where I attended the university in my town and lived in the dorms.  I lived my life, and visited my family a few times a month.  I assume Randall is doing the same.  There are times in which I don't think that was the best decision 18 year old me made, but other times I know it was the right decision.  

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I'm curious to know whether she ever sought treatment for her body dysmorphic disorder. It seems like that was dropped, but I'm not confident that she and addict Kevin would make a healthy match. And he woke up after sex with her wanting to fly cross-country. Hardly a harbinger of a great love story in the making. With an entire episode dedicated to Kevin and Sophie, my money's on them as endgame.

I am hoping we see that Kevin did not try to sneak out from Madison's that morning.  I don't necessarily think he regrets sleeping with Madison, but she is Kate's best friend.  Kevin and Madison just did something that can irrevocably change Madison's relationship with Kate.  Of course with Madison still asleep, Kevin and the audience don't know how she feels about the encounter.  

I don't see a possible relationship between Kevin and Madison being anymore unhealthy than his relationship with Zoe.  Yes Kevin is a recovering addict and Madison has her own issues, but so did Zoe.  

[kicksave]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I wonder if this is why Madison gets such a positive edit compared to Kate.

This an unpopular opinion but I have never liked the casting of Teen Kevin. He just seems so creepy to me. Toddler Kevin is adorable.

Teen Kevin is so smarmy, sarcastic and full of himself.

[gameshowjunkie]

Kevin and Madison could still have the baby and get married even if they're not in love. Maybe that's what works for them at this point in their lives. If she is the one who's pregnant wonder how she will handle the weight gain. Didn't she have body dysmorphic disorder or something like that?

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

Rebecca and Kevin have been in a weird cycle for a long time. She overlooks his feelings and he acts self centered around her. Randall has always been a comfort to Rebecca and he does naturally thoughtful things for her. After Jack died Randall changed his college plans and a chance to really connect with his heritage so he could be close to his mother and take care of her. Kevin went to go live his own life which is perfectly fine.

I think Rebecca is more at fault because she is the mother.

Kevin pulls away from her as a child because he feels ignored and she interprets this behavior as this kid does not needing or liking  her very much. Also, because the twins had a bond that probably left Randall as the odd man out and perhaps that also made her give him more attention.

Rebecca is entirely at fault because she is the mother.  It doesn't mean she's an elementally bad mother, but if last week showed that Jack imprinted on an innocent Randall that he has to be the good boy, this week showed that Rebecca imprinted on an innocent Kevin (via Jack) that his feelings weren't ever particularly considered by her.  And as @Ohiopirate02 said, he didn't move immediately to New York after Jack died.  It was more than six months later.  I do think it's fair to say that Kevin likely sought comfort for his grief with the two people who had proven to be safe for him, but if Rebecca felt abandoned by him in the immediate aftermath, that's on her parenting of him from the time he was born.  It's not his responsibility as the teenage son to take care of her as the parent.

I found this episode's exploration of grief especially moving.  I lost my dad three years ago next week, and so much of the conversation between Sophie and Kevin really resonated with me, especially Sophie's comment about wanting to go back to that moment before she found out.  I suppose you could say this about literally every moment of your life, but death is so permanent that it really feels like there's an irrevocable shift from the moment before to the moment after someone dies.  I was walking back from my walk in the nearby park, happily going about my mundane day, and then...I wasn't.  It was a really simple, effective way to illuminate what that initial tsunami of grief feels like because you cannot ever unring that bell.

[Chanandler Bong]

I was hoping to get a little more context on Sophie and Kevin’s divorce. I know it was briefly mentioned that he cheated, but I’ve always been interested to find out exactly what happened. Appears they’re closing the door on Sophie though, so maybe that’s all they’ll ever reveal. In the end, I guess the details don’t really matter.

Personally I don’t think the lamb/tiger analogy meant that Madison will always be second best and Sophie will forever be an unrequited love. I think it was more like sometimes we think we can never fully move on, and can never love something (or someone) as much as another, but come to find that we are able to love again, more than we had ever imagined. I don’t think Sophie will always be the one that got away for Kevin. That’s too depressing an ending for both him and who he ends up with.

Excited to finally see what happened with Kate and her bad news ex-BF next week. Also, if Kate is “in trouble” as Rebecca says, do they really need to go 20 minutes out of their way to pick up Randall?? Kate’s marriage is certainly going downhill fast. I’m sorry, but are these people even trying? They’re having issues, so...it’s over??

Side note: toddler Kevin — I could die!

[Neurochick]

I think the issue with Rebecca and Randall was that in the first season, Rebecca was upset that baby Randall wouldn't suckle at her breast, she was pretty upset about it, and then when he did Rebecca was more than happy.  Here was a child she had no given birth to, and he was bonding with her.  I think Rebecca was forever stuck there. 

I used to think Kevin was a jerk, but now I see that he was kind of left on his own.  Jack and Rebecca worried about Kate because of her weight, and they worried about Randall because he was adopted, and black.  I remember the episode when they were small and at the pool.  Kevin almost drowned and no one noticed.