S05.E01: Meet The Legends

[scarynikki12]

Quote

Sara, Ray and Mick are shocked to discover that the Legends have become famous.

 

 

[scarynikki12]

Yes! Sara hasn’t forgotten Oliver’s death and wants to talk about him. With a bit of booze and pot to ease the pain. I like that she’s as close to Behrad as she was to Zari. It’s a nice touch that she can get along with everyone on her team.

Kind of disappointed they didn’t reference Rasputin’s and Yusupov’s sexual history. Ole Felix had quite the...interest in Grigori before killing him. And Alexei looked way too good for a hemophiliac but then so did Nate so I guess it’s consistent. 

No more Time Bureau is interesting. 

I like that Gideon is glitching due to Crisis. 

I love them taking a chainsaw to the documentary just like they do to history. Anonymity suits them better than celebrity. 

I probably shouldn’t love Gary apprenticing under Con but I do. 

I don’t want Mick to give up Rebecca Silver! Mona will be great but I want him to write smut AND steal priceless things from history! 

I hate the Zari/Nate relationship but I’ll accept it if he brings her back to me. 

[janeta]

Haven’t see first half of the ep yet, but Rasputin's eyeball reforming and looking out of the jar was *hysterical*. 😄

[Writing Wrongs]

I was wondering who the hell the new guy was.

[statsgirl]

I liked idea of the film crew and everyone acting weird around it.  The whole thing with Kevin being left behind and then Rasputin using him was funny. Logically I understand that the Legends would want to tank it with the idea of a reality TV show but I was cringing during that panel.

Glad to see Mona again but not Kopae.  I don't like that Mick is giving up  his writing, that was such a good quirk and contrasted with his tough guy persona.

I also liked Rasputin although it got tiresome by the 40 minute mark

Gary has had all his dreams come true being Constantine's apprentice.

I'm tired of Ava and Sara's relationship problems, it feels like it's in too many episodes, they misunderstand each other, fight and make up by the end. Wash, rinse, repeat. If you have to keep doing that to keep viewer interest, you don't have the makings of a relationship. And when did Ava get to be that good a fighter?

The bad:

When they were asked who else saved the universe, Sara, Ray and Mick mentioned The Flash, Supergirl, Superman and Batwoman. No one said Oliver, the guy who sacrificed his life to save it. The only references to him were how sad Sara feels.  I'm tired of all the other shows dumping on Oliver. Without Arrow, there would be no Legends of Tomorrow.

"Babushka" means "Grandmother". It's not a hat or any other apparel that you put on. Look it up.

[Jediknight]

Blind Wave made an appearance on Legends of Tomorrow.  Guys, Blind Wave was on Legends of Tomorrow.  Way to go, crew Blind Wave.

Ava isn't good with the condolence cards.  It's a good thing that she didn't give it to Sara.

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, Jediknight said:

Blind Wave made an appearance on Legends of Tomorrow.  Guys, Blind Wave was on Legends of Tomorrow.  Way to go, crew Blind Wave.

Ava isn't good with the condolence cards.  It's a good thing that she didn't give it to Sara.

And the artwork that Behrad showed Sara looked like Lord Mesa. Fan connections galore. 

[statsgirl]

1 minute ago, scarynikki12 said:

And the artwork that Behrad showed Sara looked like Lord Mesa. Fan connections galore. 

I looked to see if he had signed it because it looked like his work but there was nothing.

[ketose]

I had two laugh out loud moments - the bird hitting the cloaked Waverider and Ava's "condolence" which was brimming with jealousy.

[teenj12]

Did Mona leave the team? I was unclear on that ending with her and Mick..

[Writing Wrongs]

On another forum, someone said if you call the number on Constantine's business card Gary answers and you hear Constantine in the background yelling at him.

[UNOSEZ]

Enjoyed it well enough the Russians hamming it up for the cameras seemed odd.. I did like the relationship between Behrad and Sara… She’s needed that since the show decided to shelf Jax until the actor decided to bounce… I hope we aren’t looking for zari for too long.. With Mona gone and Charlie doing a disappearing act the waverider is looking kinda monotone…

[Oreo2234]

Quote

And when did Ava get to be that good a fighter?

I think she's always had pretty good fighting skills. She was able to hold her own against Sara in a fight in one of her early episodes. 

I miss original Zari but Behrad was amusing and likeable this episode.

I liked that they allowed Sara to be sad about Oliver's death. Caity Lotz did a great job with it. Too bad they couldn't handle her dad's death in the same way. 

[Lantern7]

Nice to see that worlds lived and worlds died after the Crisis, but there are still a bunch of misfits looking out for history. And they got to ditch the Real World atmosphere. At least this was early RW. Give them six months, you'd have a drunken Ava shoving Nate against the pole, yelling, "ONE! ON! ONE!!! ONEONONE!!!!! I WILL WORK YOU!!!!"

Looks like Sara didn't tell Mick and Ray all of the shit she went through beyond Oliver's death. I mean, she was labeled a "Paragon," she was stuck at Vanishing Point for at least six months, she had to return from the dead (maybe just symbolically?), and now she's dealing with the same issues as Kara, J'onn and the other Paragons . . . remembering the world that came before. Bright side: she can still kick ass and work with a motley crew of misfits, and that's why I think she's the best hero in the Arrowverse. Or Flashverse. The Whatever-verse.

If Mona comes back, I hope she winds up "cured" of "Wolfie." It's another layer of annoyance that her character doesn't need. I didn't hate her as much as others last season, but I'm good with her taking the smutty romance baton from Mick. She's okay in smaller doses. Sadly, I don't think we'll be rid of Gary as easily. If Oliver wound up setting up Earth-Prime as Spectre, I'm thinking at least two Legends owed him money in order for him to stick them with more Gary.

If you're going to bring back the worst people from Hell, why not start with Rasputin? Of course he turns into a ham in front of the cameras. Nice that Ray got to do what Scott Lang didn't wind up doing to Thanos, albeit in a rated-PG way. Not unlike how Sam killed a vampire in True Blood. Sweet that Avalance is still going strong even with the occasional rift.

I like Behrad. He's as dorky as Ray and Nate, which probably means Sara will be tearing her hair out more often. Of course, Zari should still be around, and Nate will go questing for her. I liked them as a couple, but I get the criticism against that ship.

Who is Blind Wave? I did recognized Lord Mesa's art style, though. I really need to meet him and hit him up for a sketch. He does great work.

If you want another off-kilter take on Rasputin, here's an Epic Rap Battle with him, Stalin, and a few surprise guests.

[Jediknight]

26 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

And the artwork that Behrad showed Sara looked like Lord Mesa. Fan connections galore. 

This episode might have been their love letter to the fans, with Blind Wave and other reactors appearing at the beginning, the fan art, and that little convention at the end.  It was their way of saying "Thank you, without you we wouldn't have gotten to season 5."

Lantern7, Blind Wave is a reaction channel.  Every reaction they do is pretty much a podcast, because they'll spend 20 to 30 minutes after the reaction talking about the episode and what could happen in the future.  They've been acknowledged by Candice Patton in the past,

Edited January 22, 2020 by Jediknight

[KittenPokerCheater]

Oh I love this ridiculously crazy show.

I laughed out loud when I saw  the news scrol during the senator wellington hearing:  Ryan Reynolds to star in Detective Beebo Live Action Film.

Is the character Charie off the show for good or just for now?

 

 

[scarynikki12]

8 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Who is Blind Wave?

They have a channel on YouTube. Lots of reactions and their tastes run toward all things nerd.

[kdm07]

24 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

On another forum, someone said if you call the number on Constantine's business card Gary answers and you hear Constantine in the background yelling at him.

I called the number and it's true lol

So much happens in this show I usually end up having to re-watch it for stuff I missed. What I didn't miss? Ray making Rasputin explode from the inside (see Marvel? You could've done it too!) and John drinking Rasputin's viscera (gross).

Sara had me in my feels when she was talking about everything that happened. She needs a moment to process/decompress.

Really good episode to start of the season (and now we wait for another two weeks before the next one....sigh).

[Bulldog]

44 minutes ago, teenj12 said:

Did Mona leave the team? I was unclear on that ending with her and Mick..

I noticed she was billed as "special guest" (or maybe "special appearance") in the credits instead being billed as a regular.  I'm hoping that means she's gone.  Good riddance.

[UNOSEZ]

56 minutes ago, ketose said:

I had two laugh out loud moments - the bird hitting the cloaked Waverider and Ava's "condolence" which was brimming with jealousy.

I had a moment when Nate said he rotated hair products... And Im generally ambivalent towards Nate at best 

[Sakura12]

Well that was something. I guess. My favorite part was seeing all the reaction channels I watch show up. Blindwave, Married to the Real, Free Bicycle Tours and abnormallyadam are all going to freak out when they watch this episode. I know they probably were asked but I hope they didn't know how their clip was going to be used.

I liked seeing Sara dealing with Crisis and losing Oliver. But man are they making it hard to root for her and Ava. Ava is just awful. Her card was supposed to be funny I guess but it just shows how much she doesn't know or understand Sara. Oliver was more than just an a guy she slept with. I knew they would make Ava jealous before even watching this episode because that's how she is and that's why I don't like her. We've never seen Ava support or apologize to Sara without making it about herself. Sara's not good with feelings with either and she still manages to act like a human being. 

I feel bad for the actress that plays Mona. I blame the writers more than her.  But I'm not sad to see her go. 

Rasputin was reminding me of Savage. So wasn't really feeling him either. I hope the other Encores they meet are a little less campy. 

ETA. I love Sara and B-rod. In one episode they managed to make him likable. I hope he can stick around when they eventually get Zari back.

[MadyGirl1987]

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

And Alexei looked way too good for a hemophiliac but then so did Nate so I guess it’s consistent. 

I didn’t think of that, but it’s surprising they didn’t mention Nate’s hemophilia even just in passing, with regards to Alexei being hemophiliac, especially since it played so heavily into their eventual demises. I must say, as someone who knows a lot about the fall of the Romanovs they got a lot of the background right. I was actually watching the old animated Anastasia movie over the weekend and the historical inaccuracies and inconsistencies in it were just infuriating.

Interesting premise and enjoyed the dynamic or having a camera crew along for the madness.

Looks like we will still have Zari playing a role, but I like Behrad. He did seem a bit “douchey” at first when talking to the cameras, I was even thinking “We lost Zari for him?” but he seemed more toned down and I really liked his scenes with Sara and Nate.

Really, it just was great to have the show back. Loved the taste last week with the crossover, but it was great seeing it the whole crew playing off each other. Think we have an interesting set-up with different villains from throughout history being brought back.

Edited January 22, 2020 by MadyGirl1987

[scarynikki12]

24 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

But man are they making it hard to root for her and Ava. Ava is just awful. Her card was supposed to be funny I guess but it just shows how much she doesn't know or understand Sara. Oliver was more than just an a guy she slept with. I knew they would make Ava jealous before even watching this episode because that's how she is and that's why I don't like her. We've never seen Ava support or apologize to Sara without making it about herself. Sara's not good with feelings with either and she still manages to act like a human being. 

Yeah that wasn't a good look for her. Maybe this will lead to something but Ava being jealous about everyone Sara's been involved with is tired. Sure Sara was once in love with Oliver but that relationship ended years ago and they remained close friends. That's an endorsement of both their characters that they were able to do that. What would Ava have done if she ever met Oliver? Tried to punch him for having history with Sara? Would she attack Nyssa if they ever met? Even though Sara's completely over both and Oliver at least was happily married with children? Yes, Sara and Oliver were complete shitheads for cheating on Laurel all those years ago but that doesn't seem to be Ava's issue. It's merely the fact of Oliver that was bothering her even while knowing that Sara was mourning his death. If Sara were showing lingering romantic feelings for Oliver, Nyssa, Con, or any of her hookups in history then Ava's jealousy would be understandable but she hasn't. She treats Con like any other member of the team, she hasn't spoken to Nyssa in years, and she's mourning Oliver her friend not Oliver her ex. Ava needs to figure out how to deal with this and quickly.

[thuganomics85]

Oh, yeah!  D.C.'s Crazy Train is back, baby!

So, while Sara, Ray, and Mick were off on crossover duty (I will never not tire of the meta references), the Legends became famous, but lost their funding due to the Time Bureau being dissolved.  So, in order to convince the government they are worthy of funding, Ava invites a documentary crew in to film them on missions.  Yep, that's totally something the Legends would do!

Looks like the main arc this time is that the Astra character from last season's finale is sending bad people from Hell back to Earth, but since part of their soul is still in Hell, the Legends simply can't kill them, and have to find ways around that.  Like them defeating Rasputin tonight by having Sara toss a shrunken Ray into his mouth, and then Ray blows him up from the inside by turning large again.  Yep, that happened!  Totally a reference to the Avengers memes about Ant-Man defeating Thanos that way.  Michael Eklund was fun as good old Rasputin.

Behrad is still around, but now Nate knows the existence of Zari (although, he doesn't know her name, yet), so that should change things up.  Wouldn't mind if they keep Behard around, since the actor is likable enough and works well with everyone, but I'm definitely more about getting Zari back stat since Tala Ashe is the best.

On the other hand, I guess Moana is leaving, since Ramona Young was only billed as a special guest star, and she's apparently taking over as Rebecca Silver now.  Definitely felt like a case of TPTB knowing a sizable portion of the fans didn't care for her, so they're shaking things up again.

Glad that Sara isn't just over what happened to Oliver.  Caity Lotz was great here.  I wish they did a better job with Ava making amends for her initial reactions, because their reconciliation felt unearned.

At least Gary is living in the dream!  Even if his dream is apparently Constantine's nightmare.

Nora's off on Fairy Godmother duty?  And I wonder what will come out of Charlie bailing for now?

Welcome back, Legends of Tomorrow!  And, of course, Praise Beebo!

 

[Featherhat]

So that was fun. I enjoy mockumentaries in general and they played to all the awkwardness and weirdness tropes. Sara going off on the camera crew was fun. Kind of funny that they were all "and time traveling with the Legends has allowed to film the first real colour images of Imperial Russia" instead of throwing up and speaking gibberish. Guess they edited that part out. 

I liked Behrad though I obviously miss Zari and it was nice to see that he and Sara had established a comfortable rapport together and she was able to express her sadness about Oliver to him. He's younger and a bit douchy but it worked for him. Heh, that his parents think he's in business school. I assume his and Zari's slightly different surnames is an Arabic thing?

I feel sorry for Ramona Young because she's a good actress and seems pretty sweet but I'm certainly not going to miss Mona, the character was 99% a miss from the start and I don't want them to put a season into fixing her when there's so much else going on. Although it sucks that Mick is giving up Rebecca Silver. 

I want to love Ava and Avalance but that was hard going. I know Ava's awkwardness is part of her character but is it so hard to understand and accept that Sara's mourning a guy she loved and had gone through so much with, without it turning into a jealous pout session? They were both in love with other people when they were together (good luck to her if KL ever guest stars!) and he was married with kids. I know she admitted all that but it happens every episode. Though the costumed sweeping her off her feet kiss was good. Sara going off on the crew for doing their own thing instead of just talking to her was great and such a step forward for this character that that's what she wants and needs after losing someone. That and to get high. 

I really wish they had mentioned Nate's haemophilia, that was such a brief yet interesting part of his character, but they didn't even bring it up as an issue last season with his Dad so I wasn't surprised here.  He was being his usual self with Rasputin but it worked ok. Happy we're getting to Zari right away but not looking forward to the love angst. 

Villain Encores seem like they're going to work ok as a theme of the season and Rasputin hamming it up worked. I liked how they dealt with the "we're famous now" stuff, even though "it's all fake" wouldn't work in a world where congressional hearings were involved. 

Constantine's Masha/Astra side plot was about setting up the rest of the season and ok. Nothing to say there except Gary is still annoying. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Featherhat

[kirinan]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

"Babushka" means "Grandmother". It's not a hat or any other apparel that you put on. Look it up.

Technically you're right, but in my 62 years, I've also heard it used countless times to refer to a scarf tied over the head. My grandparents were Russian and Romanian Jews who came to the U.S., and it was used to refer to the scarf on both sides of my family and among my friends from similar backgrounds. So it's used in both senses. Maybe it's partly a regional thing.

ETA: Nothing to do with babushkas, but I groaned out loud when I saw Mona. I thought we were rid of her. Hopefully if she comes back, it will be very, very, VERY seldom. The actress looked great, but I just detest the character; she sets my teeth on edge the whole time she's on screen.  

Edited January 22, 2020 by kirinan
Forgot to whine about Mona

[tarotx]

I dislike mocumentaries but last night's episode was better than expected. Sara being able to still mourn Oliver was awesome & her relationship with Zari's brother was sweet but I miss Zari (and Jax).

I think Everybody was used well for the most part even if I don't want Zari's scarfice and change to be mostly about Nate let alone all about him.  And I'm tired of Ava's jealousy & that condolence card annoyed. Also Ava getting to be assassin-like similar to early Sara, except no internal torment, is just more annoyance. Ava has no depth to her. She is very robot in some ways. I think Sara forgives too easily as well so the same couple issues keep manifesting. They need growth if this relationship is more than both having no one else. Though that seems to be why they are together Imo.

Hopefully Mona is gone. The actress seems talented but Mona just isn't my cup of tea and Wolfy is just always unwelcome.

Edited January 22, 2020 by tarotx

[darkestboy]

The documentary for this show is not the craziest thing they could do but they certainly had fun with this one.

Poor Kevin though. He got covered in Rasputin guts and had his film ruined by the Legends but he's auteur so he'll probably recover.

Not surprised everyone kind of flipped out over being filmed and acted up for the cameras while Sara just wanted to talk about everything that went down in the Criis.

Ava bumbled a lot in this episode.

Mona got a nice exit. The character didn't work but they treated her with respect. Hope Charlie isn't gone though.

At least they're not going to drag out the Zari bit now that Nate is aware that she's missing. I do like Behrad but it seems pointless getting too attached to him. Still though he seems to work with the Legends pretty well.

Constantine and Gary working together is nice. Astra will be appearing onscreen soon though, yeah? 8/10

[Lady Calypso]

I liked this premiere back. I think my favourite parts were getting more Sara and her feelings, and...Behrad. I do miss Zari, but they did an excellent job at establishing Behrad's role on the team. It's only slightly different from Zari's, but I still felt like he fit in really well. I loved his scenes with Sara. I was wary of Behrad and how he'd fit in, but honestly, they convinced me that I want him on the team full-time. 

Yeah...I'm real tired of the Ava/Sara relationship. I get it; Ava's a clone who doesn't really get emotional connections and whatnot, but it was hard to watch Ava not fully appreciate the relationship that Oliver/Sara once had and it's hard to see Ava not get Sara, not completely, even after being with her for a couple of years. Not a good episode for Ava.

I didn't like Mona but I feel so bad for the actress, if this was truly her last episode. If not her final episode, she's definitely set up to leave in the next one. This was not Ramona's fault, not at all. Unfortunately, her character just didn't click and it's a shame they couldn't find a way to correct it. But I won't miss Mona, not at all. It's a shame that Mick let go of Rebecca Silver. Now what is he going to do? The show struggles with writing for Mick, in the first place.

Not a fan of Nate/Zari, so couldn't care less about Nate's memories about Zari returning, somewhat. But the return of Zari could be fun.

The Rasputin stuff was a whole lot of fun. Seeing as the Romanov story is one of my favourite historical pieces, I'm always down for something like that. Although, one thing of note. Sara said they went to 1917, but technically, Rasputin died in 1916. But whatever, not a huge deal. I know this show doesn't get historical facts correct all the time, and for good reason.

The documentary stuff was alright, but I'm happy to never see it again.

Also, final note. Ray going inside of Rasputin and enlarging in order to kill him completely shocked me. I'm stunned that they went there (and I'm pretty sure it was an obvious jab at the Marvel stuff, with Thanos/Ant-Man). 

[Jediknight]

5 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Villain Encores seem like they're going to work ok as a theme of the season and Rasputin hamming it up worked.

This is Legends, if a villain doesn't ham it up, are they really a Legends villain?  That's part of the charm, the villains especially get to cut loose, have fun, and chew scenery.

[bettername2come]

15 hours ago, Oreo2234 said:

I miss original Zari but Behrad was amusing and likeable this episode.

I warmed to Behrad much quicker than I warmed to Zari. Can we pull an Arrow and keep both siblings?

I kept waiting for Sara to say something like "Not another documentary" since she was in the Arrow one last season.

I'm sad Mick won't be writing anymore. I really came to love that insane plot development. 

I knew I had seen Rasputin on Arrow! He was the Dollmaker! 

[VideoPgh]

15 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 

"Babushka" means "Grandmother". It's not a hat or any other apparel that you put on. Look it up.

I did, and it is a headscarf as any good resident of Western Pennsylvania would know.

  
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/babushka
 

[MarkHB]

16 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I like that Gideon is glitching due to Crisis.

I don't think it's Crisis. They specifically mentioned HeyWorld, so I think it's the Zari switch that was giving her temporal indigestion.

Speaking of Zari, she still exists, so when is Behrad (sp?) going to ask Nate, "why are you staring at a picture of my sister?"

Honestly, I had a hard time keeping my attention on this episode. It just didn't grab me for some reason.

[TV Anonymous]

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

On the other hand, I guess Moana is leaving, since Ramona Young was only billed as a special guest star, and she's apparently taking over as Rebecca Silver now.  Definitely felt like a case of TPTB knowing a sizable portion of the fans didn't care for her, so they're shaking things up again.

According to Wikipedia, Mona Wu is a guest character for season 5.

[ketose]

I think it was kind of meta for them to explain all the reasons why they couldn't have time traveled to 1917 Russia (germs, everyone speaking English). I remember back in Season 1 when Ray had to swallow some kind of futuristic pill to speak and understand another language (ironically, Russian).

Zari talked about her brother a lot, I wonder if he mentioned Zari. If Nate had ever seen a picture, he'd probably make the connection.

Edited January 23, 2020 by ketose

[Cyphodyas]

11 hours ago, tarotx said:

I dislike mocumentaries but last night's episode was better than expected. Sara being able to still mourn Oliver was awesome & her relationship with Zari's brother was sweet but I miss Zari (and Jax).

I think Everybody was used well for the most part even if I don't want Zari's scarfice and change to be mostly about Nate let alone all about him.  And I'm tired of Ava's jealousy & that condolence card annoyed. Also Ava getting to be assassin-like similar to early Sara, except no internal torment, is just more annoyance. Ava has no depth to her. She is very robot in some ways. I think Sara forgives too easily as well so the same couple issues keep manifesting. They need growth if this relationship is more than both having no one else. Though that seems to be why they are together Imo.

Hopefully Mona is gone. The actress seems talented but Mona just isn't my cup of tea and Wolfy is just always unwelcome.

Well, except that having trouble relating to emotional issues is part of her torment.  Because she recognizes that it's there, but can't do anything about it.  

In a way, it's a bit like she's a high functioning autistic person, who sometimes needs signs that others wouldn't because she lacks the ability to process things in the way others do.  And the fact that she recognizes this about herself means those things all remind her that she's not completely human in the way everyone else is.

People mentioning the letter, which wasn't a great look, but I don't know if it's really all about jealousy as much as it's about the problem she has relating and internalizing other people's emotions.  Her describing her own performance review, which she did herself, and she knows that trying may make things worse, but not trying also makes things worse, so then which is the lesser evil? 

She wasn't designed to be able to do any of this, and she's incredibly aware of that fact at times when she knows that what she's doing isn't right, but she doesn't know exactly what the right thing would be.  Yes, some things should be obvious to a typical person, but she's not a typical person and things that come easy to others take work for her.

I'm not sure how it can be solved except maybe living with the Legends and interacting with them as family more rather than spending time in the structured bureaucratic setting will give her more experience with people and emotions and that way she will learn how to grow and process them.  Before that, aside from Sara, all she's had are fake memories that weren't designed for someone who experiences emotions and so probably hurt more than they help. 

I'm particularly interested in her getting along with Mick, who is oddly enough a really great observer of humanity and she can learn a lot from him.  Maybe Sara subconsciously realized that and it's why she wanted them to get along last season, because she probably always wanted Ava to come onto the ship rather than leaving the ship to move in with her.  

[Cthulhudrew]

Does anyone else have the feeling that Director Kevin will be back for revenge against the Legends after his "you ruined my movie" moment?

[kdm07]

11 hours ago, Cyphodyas said:

Well, except that having trouble relating to emotional issues is part of her torment.  Because she recognizes that it's there, but can't do anything about it.  

In a way, it's a bit like she's a high functioning autistic person, who sometimes needs signs that others wouldn't because she lacks the ability to process things in the way others do.  And the fact that she recognizes this about herself means those things all remind her that she's not completely human in the way everyone else is.

People mentioning the letter, which wasn't a great look, but I don't know if it's really all about jealousy as much as it's about the problem she has relating and internalizing other people's emotions.  Her describing her own performance review, which she did herself, and she knows that trying may make things worse, but not trying also makes things worse, so then which is the lesser evil? 

She wasn't designed to be able to do any of this, and she's incredibly aware of that fact at times when she knows that what she's doing isn't right, but she doesn't know exactly what the right thing would be.  Yes, some things should be obvious to a typical person, but she's not a typical person and things that come easy to others take work for her.

I'm not sure how it can be solved except maybe living with the Legends and interacting with them as family more rather than spending time in the structured bureaucratic setting will give her more experience with people and emotions and that way she will learn how to grow and process them.  Before that, aside from Sara, all she's had are fake memories that weren't designed for someone who experiences emotions and so probably hurt more than they help. 

I'm particularly interested in her getting along with Mick, who is oddly enough a really great observer of humanity and she can learn a lot from him.  Maybe Sara subconsciously realized that and it's why she wanted them to get along last season, because she probably always wanted Ava to come onto the ship rather than leaving the ship to move in with her.  

I agree with all of this. Any time Ava seems cold or... lacking, I always remind myself that she's a clone who was built to be a stiff, no-rule breaking time bureau agent. Emotions and emotional cues are not her forte.

[futurechemist]

Maybe this was a scheduling issue, but I think it was a mistake to have 2 Legends episodes back to back where the world is altered.  First, Hey World replaced Zari with Behrad because they erased the dystopian future.  Then Crisis changed the whole universe.  Other than Sara mourning Oliver, it's hard to know what changes are from Hey World and what changes are from Crisis.

Also, what's the relationship between the 2040 dystopian future that  Zari/Behrad came from, and the 2040 dystopian future that Mia and the Canaries are being spun off into on Arrow?

All the crossover "jokes" are really offputting to me.  A supervillain is threatening to destroy the world/universe, and Nate can't be bothered to help because he doesn't want to be in a crossover?  So much hate.

I didn't understand the need for the ending.  In a world where Supergirl now routinely teams up with the Flash, why is a team of time-traveling misfits so hard to believe?

Edited January 23, 2020 by futurechemist

[Featherhat]

5 hours ago, kdm07 said:

I agree with all of this. Any time Ava seems cold or... lacking, I always remind myself that she's a clone who was built to be a stiff, no-rule breaking time bureau agent. Emotions and emotional cues are not her forte.

But she can do it when the writers want her to (obviously). Her emotions with the Constantine jealousy weren't lacking or cold she was pissed off "who sleep with JC then calls me her girlfriend". It's natural to maybe be a bit jealous of someone your new partner slept with quite recently and you now have to work together, even if it was before you got together but it also kind of set a frustrating tone in their relationship and all their subsequent arguments.

The card was supposed to be cold and funny and set up Behrad and Sara and set the stage for Sara's big blow out and it did its job. It just reminded me of all the ways last season I thought Ava doesn't really get Sara despite spending the whole season on it as her only storyline. And I am also mourning Oliver and would have been happy to use it as a way to expand Sara's pre Gambit backstory or her evolution in general (which it did a little on CRISIS 5 and a little here) and I was annoyed at the whole history being boiled down to "sorry about the guy you betrayed your sister with on a sex cruise."

21 minutes ago, futurechemist said:

Also, what's the relationship between the 2040 dystopian future that the Zari/Behrad came from, and the 2040 dystopian future that Mia and the Canaries are being spun off into on Arrow?

They were similar in look and both to Star City 2046 but I don't think they had any connection between them. Zari/Behrad's was changed before COIE and FTA's was still the same. Things going on in the potential Arrow spin off won't affect any 2042 LOT does.

As for the crossover mentions, they were funny at first as a follow up to the "hard pass" after LOT got left out of Elseworlds but now they're cringey. OK, you made you're point. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Featherhat

[Sakura12]

Ava seems to feel and experience emotions just fine when it involves her issues. She just suddenly can't when it involves Sara's. Their entire relationship revolves around Ava. Whenever it involves Sara's issues its either rushed through or Ava makes it about herself. Then they have Sara make a big romantic gesture and everything is all good. When to me it looks like Sara's issues are just forgotten and pushed under the rug. 

[Wishing Well]

Just realized something - Gideon malfunctioning involves the words cat and Bollywood, two big things that happened to Zari 

[MarkHB]

15 hours ago, Wishing Well said:

Just realized something - Gideon malfunctioning involves the words cat and Bollywood, two big things that happened to Zari 

There was a Tweet I can't find that summed them all up... there were a bunch of them and they all tied to her somehow.

[benteen]

Legends is back and as delightfully crazy as ever.  It stumbled a little bit after the mid-season break last season but finished strong and kept it going in a big way with this episode. 

The documentary was fun and Legends can definitely make it worked.  I'm glad it ended with them dismissing it and pretending it was fake.  The Legends work better as the unpopular kids in school.

Really liked Sara struggling with Oliver's death.  Crisis and the fallout has given her some good material.

Also liked Behard and wouldn't mind keeping both him and Zari.

I can't say I'll miss Mona.

Was surprised and disappointed that Mick gave up the romance novel career.  It worked surprisingly well for him.

Gary (former villain) as Constantine's apprentice definitely works. 

The guy playing Rasputin was a lot of fun.  I think this storyline of reviving the most people of the cast is going to be a great bit for the show.

It looks like they had some money left over from Crisis as Ray was in costume a lot (and shrunken) and there was much more superhero effects.

Quote

And Alexei looked way too good for a hemophiliac but then so did Nate so I guess it’s consistent. 

I thought I had heard it said in this episode that after Rasputin returned, he cured Alexei.

Great return for the show!

[tennisgurl]

Glad that my whirlwind of crazy has returned! There were some missteps last season, but they seem to be making at least some positive changes to deal with them, and I thought this was a really solid opener, especially coming right after Crisis. 

I feel bad for the actress playing Mona, I thought she did as well as she could with what she was given, but her character just never gelled perfectly with the rest of the show. She worked just fine as a minor reoccurring character, but when she was getting tons of screen time and plots based around her, she just stopped working, so I am fine with her leaving. But does she have to take Rebecca Silver with her?!? 

Sara trying to deal with her grief over losing Oliver was really well done, especially after being disappointed last season that we didn't get much follow up with her dealing with Quentin's death. I could really feel the pressure building as she was getting more and more pissed about her friends and girlfriends lack of understanding of what she lost, only for it finally to explode. Oliver and Sara had a really complicated history, but she cared about him really deeply and they really understood each other on ways that most people cant after everything they went through, and I am glad the show explored that. I might be biased though, as Sara/Oliver are one of my favorite platonic relationships in the Arrowverse! 

Speaking of lack of understanding, Ava should thank Beebo that she didn't give Sara that asshole, passive aggressive card, or I dont think they would have been having big dramatic kisses any time soon! Like, what the fuck Ava? I dont buy this whole "I dont know how emotions work" she isn't freaking Data, she has very human emotions and experiences and memories, just because she happens to be a future clone doesn't change that, so passing that crappy judgmental card to her girlfriend, who is mourning the death of a close friend, isn't funny or wacky, its just an awful thing to say to your partner. Jealousy is a really bad look, and this all just reeks of Ava being annoyed that Sara has ever been with anyone other than her ever (even before they met!) and shows a really severe lack of understanding of Sara, as well as basic empathy. This is why I struggle with Ava and Avalanche so much, Ava just seems like she doesn't understand Sara, and isn't really trying to. 

I still dont care about Nate/Zari, but I am glad to see that she will probably be back soon, even if its a different version than the one we know. I did love that one of Nates memories of Zari is her stuffing her face with food. The girl does love her snacks! It took me a second to warm up to Behrad, but I ended up really liking him, especially his scene with Sara and what looked like one of Lord Mesas (!) pictures. I hope that, even if/when Zari comes back, he can stick around too and wont have to disappear into the time stream or go back to business school or whatever. They can both stay, Diggle kid style! 

The Rasputin stuff was fun, that always an interesting time period to play around with, and Ray blowing up to normal size inside of him was gruesome and hilarious. Someone read those "how Any Man could defeat Thanos" threads!

The documentary was fun, I often enjoy those mockumentary types of things, especially them leaving Kevin the director in the past! It was a fun way to reintroduce the show, establish what is and isn't cannon anymore, and set up some new dynamic for the rest of the season. 

[Bill1978]

So great to have the team back...and the show. I try so hard to get into the other CW DC shows but I can't because they are ridiculously serious with their execution. I love my comic book shows to be less serious. I don't care how ridiculous the storylines can be, the fact they embrace the stupidity makes me love the show even more.

I was so impressed the show went the Antman/Thanos route to destroy Rasputin. Bravo for having the guts to do that.

After one episode I'm hoping when they find Zari that thy don't just boot her brother from the team. Is it possible both can stay?

As much as I don't enjoy the character of Mona and her wearwolf (I think mostly cause the werewolf effect was terrible and werewolves aren't comic characters in my book), I hope that wasn't the end of her time on the show, cause honestly that is a terrible terrible farewell for a team member. 

[Featherhat]

36 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

After one episode I'm hoping when they find Zari that thy don't just boot her brother from the team. Is it possible both can stay?

Looking on IMDb it seems he's in it for up to 10 episodes this season and as the actor was the one who wrote his own bio I'm going to assume it's correct for now. 

 

37 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

As much as I don't enjoy the character of Mona and her wearwolf (I think mostly cause the werewolf effect was terrible and werewolves aren't comic characters in my book), I hope that wasn't the end of her time on the show, cause honestly that is a terrible terrible farewell for a team member. 

They've left the door open for a return but I haven't heard anything about it and she's been busy with other projects. She might just go the way of the Hawks which also specifically left the door open but haven't yet returned. 

I do like Ramona Young a lot but the character never worked. It would have been better if they'd used her in smaller doses but once she got wolfie suddenly Wham! Everywhere. It didn't help that they seemed to want the naïve, believes in happy endings and romance character directly contrasted to her Mr Hyde wolf and didn't give the human character much to work with in terms of a less saccharine edge that just felt awkward around the rest of the Legends. If she'd been written to more of RY's extreme dead pan SCD character a few times it might have balanced it out more.  

[Bill1978]

39 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

She might just go the way of the Hawks which also specifically left the door open but haven't yet returned. 

At least the team said a collective goodbye to the Hawks. This episode implies that Mona walks off the Waverider and it is up to Rory to tell the others that Mona has left. But then this is the episode that had Charlie appear for 5 seconds and then disappear never to be seen again, not even at the press junket.

[Featherhat]

27 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

At least the team said a collective goodbye to the Hawks. This episode implies that Mona walks off the Waverider and it is up to Rory to tell the others that Mona has left. But then this is the episode that had Charlie appear for 5 seconds and then disappear never to be seen again, not even at the press junket.

True. It is in contrast to most LOT character farewells. Thinking about it the writers may have decided to ship her off with the least amount of fuss possible, which sucks for the actress even if the character was happy. Vandal Savage at least got defeated three times before CC was given the chance to join in the fun last season. We might see evidence that Mona is taking Rebecca Silver to new heights to show she made a good decision. 

Charlie getting left behind is something that I assume is going to come into play. I am frustrated that they went to the trouble of keeping Maisie gave her a complete opposite character to work with, which she again made her own and she's so often regulated to tertiary character. It feels like Charlie was something they either came up with early in the planning to keep MRS and then she got less and less important as they added all the new regulars for the magic season. Or they late in the game came up with a way to keep her and grafted her in afterwards. I hope she has something to do this season and that nu!Zari escapes a similar fate. 

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oliver and Sara had a really complicated history, but she cared about him really deeply and they really understood each other on ways that most people cant after everything they went through, and I am glad the show explored that. I might be biased though, as Sara/Oliver are one of my favorite platonic relationships in the Arrowverse! 

Mine to. One of my favourite things in an uneven COIE has been the Sara/Oliver friendship which has been so often ignored or down played in favour of other pairings since her death in Arrow. They reached that place where trying to put a label on their relationship was pretty much meaningless and CL has played it really well. 

But even if all they ever were together was an awkward "oops we both betrayed Laurel in the worst way" of a successful/safe Gambit and "Ollie" had got run over by a car or autoerotic asphyxiation or something, that card was still an asshole move to your girlfriend who is clearly upset.  The conversation at the end about not knowing what to say or how to behave was ok and clearly not going to come at the beginning of an episode in this 'Verse but it didn't have to be played "factory settings clone" for the storyline to be darkly funny either. 

[connieinnc]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:07 PM, statsgirl said:

I liked idea of the film crew and everyone acting weird around it.  The whole thing with Kevin being left behind and then Rasputin using him was funny. Logically I understand that the Legends would want to tank it with the idea of a reality TV show but I was cringing during that panel.

Glad to see Mona again but not Kopae.  I don't like that Mick is giving up  his writing, that was such a good quirk and contrasted with his tough guy persona.

I also liked Rasputin although it got tiresome by the 40 minute mark

Gary has had all his dreams come true being Constantine's apprentice.

I'm tired of Ava and Sara's relationship problems, it feels like it's in too many episodes, they misunderstand each other, fight and make up by the end. Wash, rinse, repeat. If you have to keep doing that to keep viewer interest, you don't have the makings of a relationship. And when did Ava get to be that good a fighter?

The bad:

When they were asked who else saved the universe, Sara, Ray and Mick mentioned The Flash, Supergirl, Superman and Batwoman. No one said Oliver, the guy who sacrificed his life to save it. The only references to him were how sad Sara feels.  I'm tired of all the other shows dumping on Oliver. Without Arrow, there would be no Legends of Tomorrow.

"Babushka" means "Grandmother". It's not a hat or any other apparel that you put on. Look it up.

(in Poland and Russia) an old woman or grandmother.

NORTH AMERICAN

a headscarf tied under the chin, typical of those worn by Polish and Russian women.