S04.E10: Light and Shadows

[Ana88]

Woah, what a start to the later half of this season. 

I do enjoy seeing young Jack and Rebecca, although I agree there are lots of other periods that can be covered and maybe this has reached its time. I would really love to see more of the toddler big 3s and kids/early teens. But I guess that will be in the next 3 episodes - I can't wait! I loved when they did this in season 2. 

Kate and Toby are just too sad and you just know it's not going to end well. I actually feel bad for both. Hope they're getting some therapy or something soon. 

That whole Kevin romance stuff was pretty weak. I mean come on, yeah we know you want to keep us guessing and on our toes regarding his baby momma, but it does not have to be done this silly. The only thing I liked was seeing Sophie calling him as I really hope she will be the one. Madison would be okay too. 

How scary was that ending? I hope you guys are right and it's just a dream. Otherwise I would hate to be the only guy in a house with 4 girls with an intruder. But I'm also quite curious as to what would happen and how Randall would handle it. 

Can't wait for next week!! 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Ana88

[debraran]

13 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It wasn't just that the clock was sloppy. As the doctor explained, the way that Rebecca wrote the numbers shows some spatial dysfunction.

Thanks for the closeup. Spatial can be brain tumor etc and although the writers have it down pat what is coming, I can hope for the less used. This explains what happens to many with brain tumors, malignant or  benign. 

"Causes of spatial neglect include stroke, traumatic brain injury, brain tumors, and aneurysm. ... People with injury to either side of the brain may experience spatial neglect, but neglect occurs more commonly in persons with brain injury affecting the right cortical hemisphere, which often causes left hemiparesis"

Many suffer from other dementia like diseases and TIU didn't have that accident and her other MRI for nothing. This show never does that. I also feel for Miguel, just have Rebecca show her love for him, stop making Jack take over every episode. She can love two people differently but everything is always about Jack. Why have Miguel at all? It ticked me off he brought up a spatula as a reason for being "dumb" or not wanting to see. There were more obvious things and Miguel isn't stupid, it just didn't play right with me that Randall seeing her once saw it and he didn't or didn't want too. The writers said Miguel would get respect this year, so far I don't see it. Randall is still condescending.

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by debraran

[ShadowFacts]

4 hours ago, SadieT said:

Can't believe I'm saying this, but definitely see Kate's side of things more than Toby's. First Toby keeps getting caught in lies, and while I'm glad there was no cheating going on it does sound like he was having somewhat of an emotional affair with this other woman. Props to him for taking himself out of the situation when he realized it but maybe don't bitch about how unhappy you are with your wife to another woman? And it's totally understandable that he'd need time to come to terms with his son's blindness but he bitched Kate out for the avocado incident saying he misses all of Jack's big moments, when he's been intentionally avoiding being around him. 

I just assumed the guy in Randall's house at the end was a random intruder... dude kinda looks strung out so maybe a drug addict looking to steal to feed his addiction. At first I was expecting the following episode to be all "what happens next?! will Randall and family survive?!" high drama, but based on the previews it looks like it's going to be more about his anxiety and how he handles difficult situations. 

I think Kate and Toby are stumbling their way through without consulting each other enough.  Toby found out the hard way what happens when he gets too emotionally close with another woman, maybe he can get more real with Kate now, which he has started to do.  Kate planned a vacation with other families of blind kids as a surprise for Toby?  That isn't just a support group, it's taking a vacation with strangers.  So she has to pull Toby into planning more, too.  They're both making mistakes but they're not irreversible, though from the flash forward to Rebecca's deathbed it's not looking good.

As for Randall's intruder, I think it can be both about his lifelong anxiety, and a real fraught situation full of drama for this show going forward.  He's a public figure, councilman, black, and there's a (looks like) white, armed stranger in his house -- it could go down pretty dramatically.  It flips the script a little and packs more punch than Randall dealing with bus stops not being shoveled.

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

Or Pearson speech him to death.  

Omigosh, the one time where the Pearson gift of gab may come in handy.  (For posters above, that was not Nicky, that was not Malik.  It was a stranger with a knife.)

6 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

 I’m wondering how confusing Rebecca’s marriage to Miguel will be if her memory loss takes that route.  It would be heart wrenching if she only knew him as Jack’s best friend once her memory slips away—that might be worse than her forgetting him altogether. 

Yeah, I think this is coming.

I don't see Kevin with Madison at all.  She's too flaky.

I was sort of bored for most of the episode, watching the Pearsons pearson everyone (i.e. go overboard with their reactions), but that ending was scary as hell.

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

I agree with the fact that there are "How I Met Your Mother" vibes with Kevin only in the vehicle of a dramatic show rather than a comedy. I also agree everyone always looks SO timeless. We need more big hair, bad bangs and perms and gaudy clothing and makeup. At least Jack gets a 70's pornstache every now & then. We need to make the ladies look a bit more trendy for their times. 

Disappointed in how Rebecca's stuck up mother handled herself. I recall the episode with the lunch when she says to Rebecca that Jack couldn't even impregnate her responsibly. I have a mother similar to Rebecca's and the "live your own life and make it a love story for the ages" aren't words that come out of people like that. Unlike others here, I am still interested in the young Rebecca/Jack and the young big 3. That's intriguing to see played out IMO. I am however over Randall. I've been over him a while now. Young Randall, grown Randall...they're all up Rebecca's bum and I'm over it. But I LOVED and bawled over her recollection of rocking baby Randall and trying to capture details of that in her memory. Why? Because I have done that with my children. The same exact thing. The days are long and the years are short. 

"You will not get past me" was amazing at the end. My biggest fear- intruders. I hope Beth is packing next to her night stand. But the intruder looked like he was coming at Randall with an old worn out steak knife🙄 Take him out with bare hands, Randall. I believe in you. Or Pearson speech him to death.  

Rebecca's mother, up until last night's episode, has been shown to be a very nasty person...maybe even a narcissist (though I am not an expert). A mother like that would never tell her daughter to go for the broke guy with no education from a poor home. She would feel like Rebecca owed it to her to bring home a son-in-law that she could brag about to her friends.  She would want an established guy from a good family. The mother has also said some very racist and hurtful things about and to Randall (go over there Randall...I just want the twins in this picture). Her about face was nothing more than plot and I cringed when she said the corny "make sure he gives you a great love story" line.

8 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

But Miguel will.

Knowing Kate and Kevin, that will just make them hate Miguel even more.

[Laurie4H]

8 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

 

I agree with the fact that there are "How I Met Your Mother" vibes with Kevin only in the vehicle of a dramatic show rather than a comedy. I also agree everyone always looks SO timeless. We need more big hair, bad bangs and perms and gaudy clothing and makeup. At least Jack gets a 70's pornstache every now & then. We need to make the ladies look a bit more trendy for their times. 

 

I agree.  Also it doesn’t seem they age Mandy Moore much in the 90’s. When the kids are in HS she is supposed to be in her mid late 40’s but she looks similar to when she first met Jack.  Not everyone looks that old at 45 but there is usually a definite difference from your 20’s

My father has dementia and had trouble drawing a clock when getting his tests. It’s been a few years and he is still pretty much himself.  Little changes in temperament and memory but nothing that noticeable.  In the flash forward it did show it progressed pretty quickly but then again we don’t know if she has Alzheimer’s/Dementia or maybe something else going on.  

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I honestly don't LOVE the idea of Kevin/Sophie, just because he hurt her so many times and I think it's way better for her to be able to move on. But, at the same time, it's better than Kevin meeting someone new, getting engaged, and having a kid all within a few months. But...no, honestly, I can't root for Kevin/Sophie because of their history. Sometimes, it's better to let bygones be bygones. So I'm hoping that maybe Sophie just introduces Kevin to his future wife and baby mama.

I agree. Sometimes people just aren't good together, and I think there's way too much baggage with Sophie and Kevin. They've split up twice, both for painful reasons for her, and I just don't think he's good for her.

Agree re: early Jack and Rebecca. Oh no, they broke up! We know they get married. Let's move on.

The little baby Randall was so cute. Those cheeks!

5 hours ago, SadieT said:

I low-key wish Madison would be Kevin's mystery baby mama because I enjoy her and want to see more of her (I'm offended on her behalf that she wasn't invited to the party she helped Kate prepare for), but realistically they would probably be a trainwreck.

Remember Kate's wedding? Randall and Kevin were in a room with the bridesmaids, including Madison, and Madison did something extra, as is her wont. Randall said something like "Yikes, she's a lot" and Kevin said "I know. Don't let me sleep with her." Still probably a good idea. 

[Ohiopirate02]

5 hours ago, SadieT said:

Can't believe I'm saying this, but definitely see Kate's side of things more than Toby's. First Toby keeps getting caught in lies, and while I'm glad there was no cheating going on it does sound like he was having somewhat of an emotional affair with this other woman. Props to him for taking himself out of the situation when he realized it but maybe don't bitch about how unhappy you are with your wife to another woman? And it's totally understandable that he'd need time to come to terms with his son's blindness but he bitched Kate out for the avocado incident saying he misses all of Jack's big moments, when he's been intentionally avoiding being around him. 

 

I saw a lot of red flags with Toby in this episode.  Baby Jack is about 9 months old at this point, Kate and Toby have had known he is blind since August, and Toby still has not come to grips with this.  Pulling away from his wife and child because he still can't get over not being able to watch Star Wars with Jack in the exact way he envisioned, is a selfish move.  Kate is at home all day with Jack probably waiting for Toby to come home from work and he keeps on coming up with excuses to not be there.  This is not good for the longterm health of their marriage and any relationship Toby could possibly have with Jack.  He needs to see a therapist or find a support group with other parents in similar situations.*  His Crossfit friends are not qualified to discuss this.  Venting to them is an echo chamber.

Another red flag, Toby not telling Kate he changed Crossfit gyms.  His excuse about Kara coming on to him and he not wanting to tell Kate because then that would make his other statement at the beginning of the episode a lie was not good.  If he had no feelings for Kara, then he would have told Kate immediately.  How hard would it have been for him to tell Kate she was right especially since Kara was at fault in his story?  I got the feeling that Toby liked the attention he got from her.  Also, weeks went by before he changed gyms, so he was still working out with her, and chatting with her on his phone after their first fight.  Obviously Toby did not take a step back with Kara after Thanksgiving.  

 

**Those support groups can be minefields which could provide some rich drama if the writers chose to go that way.

[Quickbeam]

The clock is part of a mini-mental exam and the weird placement of the numbers is a classic sign of cognitive impairment. It's my opinion that "mild cognitive impairment" has caught on to soften the blow of dementia.

I felt really badly for Kevin. 

As much as I like the work that Milo does, I think he's excellent.....I'm really ready for Jack to be over.

[molotovcupcake]

3 hours ago, Ana88 said:

How scary was that ending? I hope you guys are right and it's just a dream. Otherwise I would hate to be the only guy in a house with 4 girls with an intruder. But I'm also quite curious as to what would happen and how Randall would handle it. 

 

I'd wager, for "girls," Beth and Deja could fight off an intruder a lot better than Randall could. 

[Ana88]

4 minutes ago, molotovcupcake said:

I'd wager, for "girls," Beth and Deja could fight off an intruder a lot better than Randall could. 

I didn't mean that in an offending way or sexist, it's just I as a girl would be TERRIFIED. 

[Empress1]

Still thinking about Kevin and Sophie. I've been on both sides of the "we've had this conversation a million times; you know I think you should stay away from him" conversation, as a friend whose friend can't stay away from someone who treats her badly, and as the person involved with someone who treats her badly. If I were one of Sophie's friends and I found out she was starting up with Kevin again, I'd be like "Are you serious with this? Again?" I think Sophie even said all her friends hated Kevin.

19 minutes ago, molotovcupcake said:

I'd wager, for "girls," Beth and Deja could fight off an intruder a lot better than Randall could. 

I wouldn't take that bet. I don't think any of them could fight off an intruder. Deja is a kid. Randall is in great shape but that's not the same as knowing how to fight. (I just watched a video where a male bodybuilder said some sexist shit to a female black belt and she kicked his ass - literally fought him unconscious.) It's a terrifying situation. In his shoes, I'd be trying to figure out how to get the guy out of my house without waking the rest of the house - the last thing he wants is someone running downstairs to see what's going on.

[qtpye]

37 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I agree. Sometimes people just aren't good together, and I think there's way too much baggage with Sophie and Kevin. They've split up twice, both for painful reasons for her, and I just don't think he's good for her.

Agree re: early Jack and Rebecca. Oh no, they broke up! We know they get married. Let's move on.

The little baby Randall was so cute. Those cheeks!

Remember Kate's wedding? Randall and Kevin were in a room with the bridesmaids, including Madison, and Madison did something extra, as is her wont. Randall said something like "Yikes, she's a lot" and Kevin said "I know. Don't let me sleep with her." Still probably a good idea. 

Madison has really grown on me. Does anyone wonder why the heck she  loves Kate so much?  She always seems to be going out of her way for Kate and Kate is usually bemused to just tolerating her chirpiness. Here she goes out of her way to get theme lights for a party, to which she is not invited.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

11 hours ago, gameshowjunkie said:

My teenage son was crushed for Kevin 😞

It's a good teaching moment for him. Save the romance for someone who you know is totally into you and will appreciate it. You can't expect a perfect outcome just because you put in a lot of effort. Frankly, more boys need to learn this lesson earlier.

Speaking of romance, I also tire of hearing about Jack and Rebecca's "love for the ages." I don't even really see it so much rather than hear it over and over again. Show me, don't tell me. I see it from Miguel, like when he gives Rebecca something to look forward to that he knows she enjoys (the TV show) when she's stressed about her doctor's appointment. That is very thoughtful and romantic to me--like when Rebecca's mom talked about her husband making her a Tom Collins to drink when she watched the Mary Tyler Moore show. 😊

Kate and Toby continue their drama. Toby needs to be more up front about stuff, like not bothering to mention that Cara tried to kiss him. Poor Kate invited Cara over to the house for Toby's birthday! WTF, I would feel like a fool in that situation. I can't believe Kate thought a good birthday present for Toby would be going to a support group for parents of blind children. That seems like a great idea, but a horrible birthday present. A birthday present should be for the individual and unless they specifically ask for it or you know for sure that they would like it, something fun rather than practical.

Randall, Randall, Randall. You are insufferable. And of course he turns out to be right so he can be self-righteous about it to poor Miguel. Not that he acted so horribly after they found out he was right but Miguel immediately ate crow which annoyed me. It's probably harder to notice someone's decline when you see them every day.

[Empress1]

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Madison has really grown on me. Does anyone wonder why the heck she  loves Kate so much?  She always seems to be going out of her way for Kate and Kate is usually bemused to just tolerating her chirpiness. Here she goes out of her way to get theme lights for a party, to which she is not invited.

Kate has gotten nicer, but for a long time I thought she didn't deserve Madison's friendship. She treated Madison like shit when they first met and stayed treating her that way for a long time. I don't think she treats Madison particularly well now; she's just not as actively hostile as she was before. I'd have stopped trying with Kate long ago. Madison's perkiness is annoying but I also think it's genuine - i think she's a genuinely nice person in a way Kate isn't. Kate can be a real asshole.

3 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

And of course he turns out to be right so he can be self-righteous about it to poor Miguel. Not that he acted so horribly after they found out he was right but Miguel immediately ate crow which annoyed me. It's probably harder to notice someone's decline when you see them every day.

I laughed when Miguel said Randall was "being Randall," because ... come on.

I agree re: noticing decline - and Miguel is right, they're not young. Some forgetfulness is to be expected.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Empress1

[ECM1231]

8 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I think the guy in the hoodie is a "monster" that has haunted Randall since childhood. I hope they don't go in that direction as a reason for his panic attacks. 

Yes. I was surprised when I read here that most think he was an actual intruder. My first gut reaction was that he was a figment of Randall's imagination.  I'd be relieved if it was a real person and not Randall diving into the deep end.😟

[Jax7917]

Damn , I was hoping Sophia bush would be on more than one episode . I was actually surprised when she had a husband . Thought she’d be another one to be under the Pearson spell . 
 

im utterly sick of The million variations the show does of jack being insecure about being with Rebecca . We get it . He’s poor , she’s not . Can we move on ? I did drop a tear at the end of the episode when Rebecca remembered jacks words to her . My grandma has Alzheimer’s and now that her short term memory is gone , her long term memory is coming back more and more . 

[tarheel220]

9 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

That test that Rebecca took is the actual MOCA test commonly used to test for cognitive impairment or dementia.  I recognized it right away- my mother took it recently.  I must admit it was a bit difficult to watch. My mother is 15 years older than Rebecca, and her decline has been much more rapid, but it still hit a little too close to home.

 

It was very hard for me to watch those scenes with the MOCA test.  My mother passed in 2018 and spent the last few years in a nursing home with dementia.  Her decline was very rapid from the time we placed her in the home in 2014 to when she passed. The rest of that storyline is going to be very hard for me to watch.

[Ohiopirate02]

13 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

Yes. I was surprised when I read here that most think he was an actual intruder. My first gut reaction was that he was a figment of Randall's imagination.  I'd be relieved if it was a real person and not Randall diving into the deep end.😟

I do think we are going to get Randall diving into the deep end.  I remember the episode back in the fall where Randall and Beth were looking for a therapist for Tess.  Beth asked Randall in what I found to be a loving and supportive way that Randall also needed to look for a new therapist.  Randall did not take it well and I don't think he has found a new therapist in Philly.  

[ShadowFacts]

13 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Speaking of romance, I also tire of hearing about Jack and Rebecca's "love for the ages." I don't even really see it so much rather than hear it over and over again. Show me, don't tell me. I see it from Miguel, like when he gives Rebecca something to look forward to that he knows she enjoys (the TV show) when she's stressed about her doctor's appointment. That is very thoughtful and romantic to me--like when Rebecca's mom talked about her husband making her a Tom Collins to drink when she watched the Mary Tyler Moore show. 😊

Yes! There's too much idealizing Jack altogether. There was a lot that was wonderful about his love for Rebecca and his family, but it was far from a love for the ages, whatever that even is.  He had major flaws around jealousy and possessiveness which came out when Rebecca wanted to branch out with her music after the kids were older.  He erased his brother from the family and kept it a huge secret.  I don't think it's particularly healthy to put the guy on such a pedestal, it seems to have had a negative impact on all of them.  Even Miguel, who can never apparently measure up.  When he told Randall words to the effect of don't worry, I'll take care of her, it hit me that yes he will, but probably not for long.  It felt to me like a sign that he will not be around far into the future.  It is perhaps a partial reason why we see Nicky at Rebecca's death bed, she may at some point mistake him for either Jack or Miguel and that may comfort her.

[Earmuffs Mom]

Am I the only one that thought Kate looked a bit apprehensive when Toby had such a positive reaction to Baby Jack responding to the lights?  As if it was dawning on her that Toby was either getting false hope for a cure/vast improvement or that he would only really be happy or engaged if Baby Jack wasn't visually impaired?

 

[Blakeston]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course Rebecca is/was a Joni Mitchel fan! Mandy really killed that speech about babies and how she would rock baby Randall to sleep. I wonder if Joni could be a random concert set up by Kevin, apparently he has those kinds of connections!

Unfortunately, Joni doesn't perform anymore. She's had a stroke, and she has a bizarre condition (Morgellons Disease) that causes people to feel a crawling sensation on their skin, as though they're infected with parasites or insects. ☹️

I certainly hope Kevin and Kate find out soon enough that they'll be able to give her some kind of special experience that she'll be able to remember for a while. I felt terrible for her in this episode, and I was glad that Randall and Miguel at least saved their drama for when she was out of the room.

If Randall had halfway-decent communications skills (which you would kind of expect from a politician), and if he actually thought about other people's feelings before he spoke, the whole thing with Miguel could have easily been avoided.

Randall could have just explained that he flew in for his own peace of mind, not because he thought Miguel was incapable of handling the situation.

And he could have pointed out the very obvious reason why Miguel didn't notice a big change in Rebecca - because he sees her every day, and her decline has been gradual. Sometimes it takes someone who hasn't seen you in a while to notice these things.

[chitowngirl]

I thought the Jack and Rebecca flashback was needed. Kevin told his date that his father met his mother and BAM, he knew and it was a love for the ages. The flashback showed that it was a hard road and not all moonlight and roses from the start. Slow down Kevin!!

[ams1001]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

I think judging by the short description I saw for next week, he isn't real. I just seemed more dreamlike than actual but we will see.  We kind of saw this coming last season, the build up to his breakdown. The other 2 siblings will have to find out he went to CA soon for them to be not talking in the summer too. 

He did seem almost a little too pale, a bit ghostly (at least as I'm remembering the scene now)...they were hinting at another breakdown coming; hallucinations are not out of the realm of possibility. Or it could be a disgruntled constituent. Or just a random intruder looking for drug money. Maybe Randall didn't lock the door when he came in.

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Kate planned a vacation with other families of blind kids as a surprise for Toby?

She called it a retreat, but yeah, that doesn't strike me as the kind of thing you do for a birthday gift for your spouse. It sounds like something that might be a good idea (they definitely need some kind of counseling, both for their marriage and for learning to help their kid navigate the world, beyond the consultant they had in that one episode, and spending some time with experts and others who are going through the same thing could be helpful), but should be something they plan together, and separate from a day that's supposed to be about the birthday person.

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Remember Kate's wedding? Randall and Kevin were in a room with the bridesmaids, including Madison, and Madison did something extra, as is her wont. Randall said something like "Yikes, she's a lot" and Kevin said "I know. Don't let me sleep with her." Still probably a good idea. 

I said after the Thanksgiving episode maybe that's why Kevin's not speaking to Randall in the future. 😉

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Madison has really grown on me. Does anyone wonder why the heck she  loves Kate so much?  She always seems to be going out of her way for Kate and Kate is usually bemused to just tolerating her chirpiness. Here she goes out of her way to get theme lights for a party, to which she is not invited.

Yeah, she does all this stuff for Kate but when have we seen Kate returning the favor in any way? (Was she not invited or did we just not see her? We only really saw Kate talk to the one Crossfit guy and I didn't really notice specifics about anyone in the background. Also, did she invite no one else besides his gym buddies? Do they really have no other friends?)

1 hour ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I see it from Miguel, like when he gives Rebecca something to look forward to that he knows she enjoys (the TV show) when she's stressed about her doctor's appointment. That is very thoughtful and romantic to me--like when Rebecca's mom talked about her husband making her a Tom Collins to drink when she watched the Mary Tyler Moore show.

I would much prefer the small things like that from a settled partner than big grand gestures from someone I just met (even if he is a celebrity). That whole last-minute concert-for-two with picnic basket (aside from being pretty unrealistic; John Legend would almost certainly have better things to do) with guy-I-only-know-from-the-celebrity-rags would make me so uncomfortable. If it was someone I'd been with for a while setting up a big surprise like that it would be very different, but also not something I'd want all the time.

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by ams1001

[Laurie4H]

Toby loves Kate but can he really be that physically attracted to her?   
I’m curious to know what Kara looks like.

I am kind of past Rebecca and Jack also but I like Milo so I don’t mind it that much and I’m sure he is under contract with the show where they have to keep his character substantial.

I found the John Legend thing a bit cheesy.  I mean would he really do that?  It felt like an episode of the Bachelor.   And what are the odds you would meet the one celebrity you wanted to sleep with and that he would be into you also.  Lol. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Laurie4H

[Empress1]

14 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

And what are the odds you would meet the one celebrity you wanted to sleep with and that he would be into you also.  Lol. 

I actually liked that Sophia Bush called that out. Nobody actually expects to meet their hall pass, let alone have them be interested.

The John Legend thing was kind of silly. It's not like John Legend is hard up for things to do, or for money.

Why doesn't Kevin go on that rich/famous people dating app, Raya?

Edited January 15, 2020 by Empress1

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Why doesn't Kevin go on that rich/famous people dating app, Raya?

Hey, Sharon Stone was on Bumble...(and got booted because someone thought it was a fake account, lol).

[3 is enough]

I understand that the whole premise of this show is how St. Jack affected every character in life and continues to do so twenty years after his death. 

I just don't understand why Rebecca married Miguel.  It seems like all she really cares about is her memories of Jack, and she is still mourning him 20 years later.  Why even bother remarrying?  And when will we finally get the Rebecca and Miguel story?  I feel like there are a lot of unanswered questions.

The writers did a good job with the testing scenes, but they were a little off in alluding that Rebecca is afraid she will forget about Jack.  Usually it's the short term memory that goes first- even people with advanced Alzheimer's retain a lot of old memories.  The chances are she will forget that Miguel is her husband before she loses her memories of Jack. 

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Yeah, she does all this stuff for Kate but when have we seen Kate returning the favor in any way? (Was she not invited or did we just not see her?

Kate specifically told Madison she wasn't invited (after Madison joked about attacking Lady Kryptonite). It was one of those TV moments that's supposed to be humorous, but in real life would just be a crappy way to treat a friend.

[Earmuffs Mom]

30 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I just don't understand why Rebecca married Miguel.  It seems like all she really cares about is her memories of Jack, and she is still mourning him 20 years later.  Why even bother remarrying?  And when will we finally get the Rebecca and Miguel story?  I feel like there are a lot of unanswered questions.

Maybe we'll get their story as Rebecca continues to lose her short term memory to tug the heartstrings and victimize Miguel even more than he already has been by the Big Three.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Yes. I was surprised when I read here that most think he was an actual intruder. My first gut reaction was that he was a figment of Randall's imagination.  I'd be relieved if it was a real person and not Randall diving into the deep end.😟

It could be perfectly real, he may have neglected to deadbolt the door when he came in, and the situation might resolve relatively un-traumatically, but then it is a trigger for Randall's issues to escalate because he has been resisting getting any help.  Otherwise I don't know if I'm buying him going from not dealing with stresses to full-on hallucination without them showing any intermediate steps.

[kili]

Quote

I found the John Legend thing a bit cheesy.  I mean would he really do that?

With artist revenue dropping, one of the ways artists make money is private gigs. Corporations will hire them for events and very rich people will hire them to do a birthday party/wedding. John Legend charges in the $400K range, so Kevin probably pulled in a favour. 

That was too much for a first date, Kevin. 

Kevin should have figured out something was wrong with his date. She mentioned that her Mom would flip-out if she knew she'd met the Manny. When he offered to do the Manny thing for Lizzy's Mom, she said that she'd rather keep it to herself and tell her Mom about it when she got home. That's one of the things that endears her to Kevin. Later, at the Hollywood Bowl, she said her phone kept ringing because her Mom wanted a play-by-play. So, how does her Mom suddenly know?

We knew Randall was going to be right about his Mom, but after being such an ass to Miguel, I was hoping he would be wrong. It is like when he insisted on going home from Vegas because something was wrong with Deja and there was proving Beth and her reasonableness to be wrong. Sigh.

Toby and Kate are exhausting. One is constantly on eggshells and one is constantly upset about something. When they finally get around to having a discussion, it's too late and too messy.

I was not expecting the sketchy guy in the kitchen with a knife. 

 

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, kili said:

That was too much for a first date, Kevin. 

Way too much! That was a proposal! A good first date is, like "I remembered you like wine so I thought we'd try this new wine bar."

[Mldh598]

16 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

Hot damn, what was that ending???

A collective WTF was heard across the country in that last 10 seconds....LOL

[paul4295]

12 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Mandy is just so good. I no longer have any problem with how Mandy plays Rebecca at any age. She is so seamless.

I've also grown to appreciate her acting more as the show has gone on.  She doesn't get as many showy, dramatic scenes as some of the other actors, but I think she plays the quiet moments really well.  I also think she does a convincing job playing both the early 20s Rebecca and the late 60s Rebecca.  I'd say this episode could be an Emmy submission for her.

[Sake614]

That test scared the hell out of me, LOL! I like to think my memory is still sharp, but I can definitely get up from a chair, go to another room and then not have the faintest idea why I'm there. I misplace things constantly and am lucky I can remember my name some days, never mind a phrase that someone said a minute or three ago. Plus I absolutely suck at tests. Any kind of tests. Hearing test, typing test, school test...so I'd totally fail. And I'm only 59! 😞

Re Sophia Bush, it's petty but I think that extremely dark hair color is very unflattering. She's a beautiful young woman but she looked bad last night.

[kicksave]

15 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Uhhhh....okay. (You shall not paaassss!!!)

 

So.... this was an ad for John Legend's new album..?

BINGO! This is where this show is starting to jump the shark. This whole arc with Kevin and his quest for "love" is just boring. How many women and relationships does this guy have to go through during the course of this season? I just don't care. Really? He picks up a woman in a coffee shop and is smitten immediately and is able to arrange a private concert  with John Legend at the Hollywood Bowl? I was disappointed at the writers for this obvious "product placement" of John Legend followed up by an ad at the end of the show for his latest album. Sad.

[izabella]

I get it that Kevin is in search of a family of his own, but this insta-thing with Sophia Bush was ridiculous.  I was rolling my eyes throughout.

I feel bad for both Toby and Kate.   I can see each of their perspectives and don't blame either of them for their feelings or how they are handling things.  I agree they need therapy because this is not easy.

None of these people deserve Miguel, including Rebecca.  She takes him for granted, and saves all her love for her dead husband.

[kicksave]

23 minutes ago, Mldh598 said:

A collective WTF was heard across the country in that last 10 seconds....LOL

I have to say, when Randall went downstairs in the dark, I was feeling that there would be someone breaking in...it just seemed it was set up that way...why would he go downstairs for water when he he could just go the bathroom and get water from his cup at the sink? They do live in the city now and not suburbia...now how Randall gets out of this alive is. another story.

[Sake614]

47 minutes ago, kili said:

she said her phone kept ringing because her Mom wanted a play-by-play. So, how does her Mom suddenly know?

yeah I asked myself that question as well, but I'll admit it still didn't dawn on me that she was married. I did have a feeling she'd pull away when he kissed her but that was still a shitty thing to do to the guy. She should have told him as soon as they got to the Hollywood Bowl. I mean, lord knows I'd die if I ever met Viggo Mortensen and the man was actually interested in me! But I just can't see myself letting it go anywhere if I was in a relationship.

[camom]

There's no way Randall wouldn't have a security system in his house, yet he certainly didn't disarm one when he came in.

I agree that Rebecca will forget that Miguel is her husband and the memories she has left will eventually all be about Jack.  Poor Miguel.

Really Kevin?  The woman wanted to go to Hollywood Blvd but you just had to give her a private concert with her favorite singer at the Hollywood Bowl.  Pearsons don't do anything small.

 

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, kicksave said:

I have to say, when Randall went downstairs in the dark, I was feeling that there would be someone breaking in...it just seemed it was set up that way...why would he go downstairs for water when he he could just go the bathroom and get water from his cup at the sink? They do live in the city now and not suburbia...now how Randall gets out of this alive is. another story.

I use filtered water from the fridge for the glass I keep by my bed. Then again my kitchen is less than ten extra steps past the bathroom. If I had to go downstairs for it I might be lazier.

[Aloeonatable]

12 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I think the guy in the hoodie is a "monster" that has haunted Randall since childhood. I hope they don't go in that direction as a reason for his panic attacks. 

I was thinking the same thing. Mr Aloe said it immediately that Randall was imagining it.

[kicksave]

6 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I use filtered water from the fridge for the glass I keep by my bed. Then again my kitchen is less than ten extra steps past the bathroom. If I had to go downstairs for it I might be lazier.

It just seemed like a trivial thing that was brought into the scene to set up a burglary. 

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, kicksave said:

It just seemed like a trivial thing that was brought into the scene to set up a burglary. 

Of course, if it is a hallucination he'd have to be alone so Beth can question if it was real or not.

[BusyOctober]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

On a shallow note, Sophia Bush's voice drives me crazy (and not in a good way).

OMG! that vocal fry was killing me.  Thank God the character was married and lives far away.  If she was going to be Kelvin’s “love for the ages” (blurg), then I would need to stop watching.  
 

Randall was extra Randall in this episode.  Extra hostile (Miguel), extra smug and self righteous (Miguel), extra obnoxiously entitled (46 emails to get appointment). I would even include ‘extra selfish’ for waking up his sleeping wife, but that’s because I personally hate being woken up in the middle of the night just to hear my spouse say, ‘I’m home! I going to bed’. 
 

I’m kinda shocked that Kate and Toby aren’t already in some support group for parents of special needs kids.  They signed up for that counselor to come “blind baby proof” their house pretty quickly.  Poor baby Jack was thrust into that over-stimulating ‘Mommy and Me’ type music class at a few months old.  They seem to seek out therapy or help for other issues in their drama filled lives, but not for the very stressful case of being parents to a blind child?

 

[Sake614]

So I just rewatched the last scene, and the guy in Randall's kitchen was not a kid. He appeared to be at least in his 30s and white. He also appeared to be high as a kite. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

19 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

I’m kinda shocked that Kate and Toby aren’t already in some support group for parents of special needs kids.  They signed up for that counselor to come “blind baby proof” their house pretty quickly.  Poor baby Jack was thrust into that over-stimulating ‘Mommy and Me’ type music class at a few months old.  They seem to seek out therapy or help for other issues in their drama filled lives, but not for the very stressful case of being parents to a blind child?

Especially considering that they live in LA! It would be one thing if they lived in a small rural town hundreds of miles from a big city and Jack was the only blind kid in the vicinity. But Los Angeles is the second largest city in the entire country so you know there must be all kinds of resources, support groups, play groups, etc. available for families with a blind child. There are probably multiple therapists who help families like theirs in LA. You’d think that between Kate, Rebecca, and Randall, they’d already have a spreadsheet of therapists who specialize in families with blind children organized by distance from their new house. 

[bybrandy]

I use water from the fridge, but also I keep my glasses in the kitchen so I'd have to go into the kitchen to get my glass of water.   

Between watching Toby and Kate's marriage dissolve and knowing that we have Rebecca's decline to look forward to I don't know what upbeat this show has to offer right now.  I certainly don't mind drama in my drama but I need some light moments to counter the dark ones and I suppose Kevin's story was supposed to be that but it was so creepy.   It is a good thing I don't look like Sophia Bush because if some guy took me off to see a private concert at the Hollywood Bowl 12 minutes after meeting him, I'd be weirded out even if he looked like Justin Hartley.  

 

[TOL]

I agree about the Jack and Rebecca flashbacks getting tiresome.  This was a long slow trip around the block to get to the payoff at the end where Rebecca realizes she will lose her memories of Jack.  I cried at that realization with her.  Maybe because I find Milo V an annoying actor 😬 ::ducking any objects thrown at me::: 
 

Moving on. Toby has been shady throughout his weight loss journey.  First hiding it from Kate, then the what I feel is an emotional affair, switching gyms as a result, and now his feelings about shutting Kate out .  However, I think that’s another half-truth.  I think it’s really about Kate herself; her size as compared to him.  I really do.  I believe the rest of the stuff with the baby, but is seems that they’re both using Jack as a crutch.  
 

I cannot pass that neuro test.  I had surgery, radiation and chemo for a brain tumor 15 yrs ago and while my minor deficits as a result of the damage are mostly motor skills there is a cognitive component as well.  Spatially things can be difficult- for example, it’s hard for me to walk down a dock or enter a wide open arena without help.  It’s not a vision thing, it’s a brain thing.  Also, I have to pause conversations sometimes to grasp for words.  The brain is a tricky thing!  
 

One more thing- I’m going back and forth on whether the ending with Randall was real or hallucinated.  I’m leaning toward real, but the previews have me wondering...