Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[Sake614]

41 minutes ago, KittyQ said:

Kristina's story about Dante made it sound as if he was around as a teen, getting into scrapes, but I thought that Sonny didn't even know about Dante until he was an adult. That sounded strange to me.

 

Yeah the story was rather odd, but then she said they were trying to show Donna that Santa was real. I still have a hard time picturing an almost 40 yr old man being up on Carly’s roof making ‘sled tracks’ while wearing skis. And does she know her loving father shot her brother in the chest because he was a cop? Oh I forgot. Bygones…🙄

[JMO]

I was underwhelmed with the Marshall misdiagnosis story seemingly being resolved with what amounted to a few minutes of exposition by Kevin and Stella. Blink and you missed it.  In retrospect, pretty much the whole of that story was exposition, all of it told as history.  If the new writers want to address issues of justice, I hope they will show the stories, and not just tell them.  

I'm not quite sure what Dex thought was going to happen by going to Anna.  Was he easing a part of his newly-scolded conscience?  Did he expect Joss to stand by him as he went to trial, or to wait for him if he was sentenced?  Does he not expect Sonny to order him to kill once again? Does he think Joss will love him if he sends her ex-step-father to jail?

I thought it was bizarre that Jason had to ask Danny so many questions about himself.  He's only been gone two years, right?  Sure, kids change over time, but to not even know if Danny likes sports?

Can't help but wonder what kinds of conversations John Gotti's kids had with him about what a great father he was.

Poor Elizabeth is going to get a crick in her neck looking up at her sons.  

Edited March 19 by JMO

[TVbitch]

Dex: I want to report I almost murdered Cyrus on Sonny's orders. Oh, and Sonny is involved with Pikeman and illegal weapons dealing. 

Anna: Thanks but no thanks! And we never had this conversation. Okay, buh, bye! 

That's our Anna! How about immediately interrogate Dex properly about everything he did and knows. Get a team in place to follow up on leads generated by the interrogation and decide next steps. She doesn't know if Dex will change his mind or be killed after he leaves the room. So stupid! 

Having bitched about that, I watched every bit of the show today and it held my interest. The new writers must be doing something right, cuz I was almost rooting for Joss as she finally got a crumb of a clue about Jason. ... ...I SAID ALMOST!!!! 🤣

[CeChase]

I haven't watched today's yet but I watched yesterday because I saw online that Jon Lindstrom was prominent and he's so good.  Today's actually sounds funny, just how stupid IS Joss??  But if it leads to some much-needed angst between her and Carly that would be a welcome change. 

[YaddaYadda]

4 hours ago, ffwbe said:

I feel like there was a better way to make Joss turn anti mob other than just flat out writing her as stupid and naive. Michael, Morgan, Molly etc figured what Jason did by the time they were preteens but she had no idea that he murdered people at her big age? LMAO 

Joss was always stupid about it. Remember when she got pissed with Cameron because he called Jason a murderer after Franco's murder? It was a whole lot of defending Jason and yelling at Cameron for not getting it.

Sucks to be on the receiving end.

[Sake614]

Someone tweeted a video showing Joss saying that Jason is a professional killer. Does she now not know what that means? Do we need to explain it to her like she’s 5?

Edited March 20 by Sake614

[Grinaldi]

We were all rooting for you Anna! So you're not going to take a statement because if you did the subject of the investigation would have your witness killed? Isn't that the sort of person that should, I don't know, be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?? Congrats to Burt Ramsey. You are no longer the worst commish PC has ever had.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I did like Joss throwing Carly's obsessive, unhealthy, it's-Jason-so-whatever-he-does-is-okay in her face. 

Let's hope that Joss sticks to her guns and completely turns away from Sonny/Jason the mob.

I would love it if the PCPD took down Sonny and throw him into prison for the next 100 years.  It won't happen because MB is probably number one on the call sheet, but oh it would be great to see the character go.

[Artsda]

Of course Anna says the conversation never happened. She is never going to take Sonny down, she is too busy worried about Sonny. Don't bother Dex. 

Jake's locked in his room hating on Jason.  He's knowing Liz would defend the mobster. 

Surprised Jossyln would actually judge Jason and her mother. There's some Jax I guess in her. 

 

[ffwbe]

The teen boys playing Danny, Aiden and Rocco all look the same to me. I wish there was more variety in casting 

[Bringonthedrama]

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

 

 Because when he wants to he's very capable of showing emotion. Just not you know, anything related to him. he's shown more attention to Kristina, Morgan and Michael in their formative years than his own kids by choice) he's always more emotionally invested when something happens/happened to them. 

Michael actually is related to him - he's Jason's nephew. As a reminder, AJ was Michael's biological father and Jason's elder brother. Jason took care of Michael long enough that he felt like a parent and even Robin referred to Jason as Michael's father around others on at least one occasion. IIRC, he was invested in Kristina because she was Sonny's first daughter and Sam's little sister.

[nilyank]

19 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

The teen boys playing Danny, Aiden and Rocco all look the same to me. I wish there was more variety in casting 

Aiden and Rocco are first cousin so it make sense that they look alike. Danny and Aiden are brothers (I totally forgot for a second), so again that make sense too. Aiden and Rocco aren't biologically related, right?

[driver18]

I got what Joss was saying. In her mind (and this relates back to the Jason being a smart killer conversation with Cameron after Franco was killed), when Jason killed it was in a dangerous situation where he was protecting Sonny (or Carly, or other family members). It wasn't cold-blooded. It wasn't premeditated as she said to Dex. Jason was defending Sonny (or the family). He was protecting the family from enemies, from dangerous situations, from threats. That is how she thought it was. She may have made comments now and then (like, oh, can't Jason just kill Nelle), but she didn't really mean it.

She never thought of Jason as an actual, honest-to-god HITMAN. As someone who killed someone because (as she pointed out to Carly or Dex, I forget which one) it was inconvenient to Sonny. There's a coldbloodedness, a premeditation to that that is beyond her moral compass to accept. She cannot justify it. But she realizes truly now that her mother can and does. For Jason.

Joss had never allowed herself to truly think it, to verbalize it, but it had been there in the back of her mind without actually thinking it through that she could/would do the same for Dex. But when she was confronted with the reality of it, she realized, nope, that is a line that she could not cross.

This is the kind of nuanced and thoughtful writing that we haven't gotten in years.

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Michael actually is related to him - he's Jason's nephew. As a reminder, AJ was Michael's biological father and Jason's elder brother. Jason took care of Michael long enough that he felt like a parent and even Robin referred to Jason as Michael's father around others on at least one occasion. IIRC, he was invested in Kristina because she was Sonny's first daughter and Sam's little sister.

that i know (and i actually expressed myself wrong my apologies) - I was thinking about Morgan/Joss, and so Michael got lumped in there). but thanks for that. But i still feel like he still put in more active work in kids that were not his own - than his own kids. by choice. 

 

7 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Danny and Aiden are brothers (I totally forgot for a second),

Danny and Aiden are brothers? 
Isn't Aiden Lucky's?

Just now, driver18 said:

She never thought of Jason as an actual, honest-to-god HITMAN

i love what you said/how you said it but I do call bunk on this because many a times she used Sonny/Jason's name to threaten people who got in her face. I don't see how you do that - and not conceptualize that the man is an actual hitman. (or put together that he's a hitman - and even though "protecting family" means he's still a hitman murdering people regardless and there is still no justification for that because he's not a cop). 

[Cheyanne11]

14 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Aiden and Rocco are first cousin so it make sense that they look alike. Danny and Aiden are brothers (I totally forgot for a second), so again that make sense too. Aiden and Rocco aren't biologically related, right?

Danny and Aiden aren't brothers or related in any way (Danny's parents are Sam and Jason, Aiden's are Elizabeth and Lucky), it's Danny and Jake that are half brothers thru Jason.  Aiden and Rocco are first cousins through Lucky (aiden) and Lulu (Rocco).

[Bringonthedrama]

3 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Aiden and Rocco are first cousin so it make sense that they look alike. Danny and Aiden are brothers (I totally forgot for a second), so again that make sense too. Aiden and Rocco aren't biologically related, right?

Yes, Aiden is Lucky's son and Rocco is Lulu's son, so they are first cousins. Danny and Jake are half brothers; Jason is their dad. Jake and Rocco aren't biologically related, if that's what you're asking. However, Laura considers all three of Elizabeth's sons to be her grandchildren. She is also Rocco and Charlotte's grandmother. That is one of the reasons it's awkward for Jake to date Charlotte. Another is that when they were younger, Charlotte bullied her cousin Aiden in school. I remember Cam advising Jake about how he could deal with Charlotte/help Aiden. I don't understand the desire to date a brat who used to bully your younger sibling and showed no remorse about it.

[nilyank]

Ugh. I totally confused Danny with Jake. 

Nevermind the above.

It is actually is much easier for me to remember all the Corinthii and their connections with other despite there being more of them.

[Grinaldi]

Finished the ep. Maybe they are going somewhere with Anna finally doing her job at the end there showing up to commiserate with Jagger.

And something extraordinary happened today. I watched every second of a conversation between Carly and Joss. There does seem to be a change in perspective regarding the mob from multiple characters. And I am not worried about Liz falling for Jason again after her attitude today.

[Mirabelle]

I'm glad Aiden has brown hair and Danny has blond because I don't think I'd be able to tell them apart otherwise. 

[threebluestars]

We need more characters that are not related to anyone to diversify the GH gene pool lol.

[jsbt]

Carly and co. used to compare Jason to a 9/11 first responder to her children. (And before anyone thinks otherwise, this was in the Tamara Braun years.) Later on, Morgan and Molly used to see the mob crew as superheroes or romantic protagonists. The cognitive dissonance in Joss does not shock me.

Edited March 20 by jsbt

[30 Helens]

13 hours ago, jacourt said:

Blaze’s mom is falling under Sonny’s spell. 

Please don't put this out there. Blaze does not need a baby sister or brother. (You know Sonny never misses.)

Carly needs to brush up on her Moll Training skills. Her best student just failed the final exam.

[Asp Burger]

Sonny can "count on one hand" the number of good people in his life, and Dante is one of them? That was harsh.

I was trying to think of who the others would be. Michael is presently excluded from his affections, as are (related story) Nina and Dex, but I'd think he still had enough for two hands and more. Kristina, Molly, Laura, Anna, Olivia, Brook, Lois, Carly, Alexis, Sam, Brick, Spinelli. There are others he has a history of closeness with, even if they haven't had a lot of scenes together lately: Elizabeth, Stella, Curtis, etc.    

Not that I think all of those are good people... 

[sacrebleu]

14 hours ago, lilabennet said:

Any explanation for the last 2 years that doesn't include a threat against Jake's life or Danny's life isn't good enough.  I need at least one character to explicitly say something close to that directly to Jason's face.  I would prefer Jake.

Especially since Jason experienced Sonny's 'death' during NF, and the fact that he didn't get word to ANYONE for two years is just cruel. 

[kitmerlot1213]

I think Anna did the right thing by Dex, knowing that Sonny would have him killed for talking about the attack on Cyrus.  The DA is not going to take the word of Dex, a known associate of Sonny's, as proof that a crime was committed.  What law enforcement needs is the evidence of the illegal firearms sale to Pikeman--then they'll have the goods to put Sonny away.  I also like that Anna went to talk to John Cates--I'd rather see them as comrades then enemies.

I never thought I'd say "Go Joss!"  but I did when she said it wouldn't matter to Carly if Jason's life wasn't in danger when he killed someone, Carly would be by Jason's side no matter what. 

I appreciated Brooklyn's telling off John Cates for questioning Danny without an adult present.  If he keeps doing stupid things like that, any evidence they gather will get thrown out by the courts.

[MarciNJ]

16 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Ugh, he's such a terrible dad and no one has the guts to tell him that.

something he has in common with his twin....  (they are twins, aren't they?  I lose track....)

[MarciNJ]

11 hours ago, nilyank said:

It is actually is much easier for me to remember all the Corinthii and their connections with other despite there being more of them.

same, probably because they don't all look alike and there are wider spreads in the ages.  Jake/Aiden/Rocco/Danny - no idea who is who when I see them, until someone says their name.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Daisy said:

i still feel like [Jason] still put in more active work in kids that were not his own - than his own kids. by choice. 

Oh, definitely. It's one of the things that makes Jason such a terrible parent to his own children—they aren't much of a priority.

8 hours ago, threebluestars said:

We need more characters that are not related to anyone to diversify the GH gene pool lol.

If the new writing team brings on new characters, I hope they're aware of how many people in PC are related. Too many of the earlier writers used some sort of familiar connection to do the heavy lifting of establishing new characters, and it usually went nowhere and was later ignored. (Whither Valerie?)

[jsbt]

I think Laura's non-Nikolas kids are needed back on canvas; I think Nikolas is possibly spent for good given Tyler's death, I think Adam Huss is very talented but not the type of performer who gives romantic lead, and I have no interest in seeing Nikolas #5 (#6 if we're counting Nick Stabile, which I'd rather not).

But I also think they need to clear out a ton of excess characters, starting with Michael, Willow, Sasha, various pointless kids, Valentin, et al. Then you can start adding new blood that isn't totally incestuous (or born in test tubes for Cassadine rape experiments, like Charlotte).

[YaddaYadda]

18 hours ago, lilabennet said:

Any explanation for the last 2 years that doesn't include a threat against Jake's life or Danny's life isn't good enough.  I need at least one character to explicitly say something close to that directly to Jason's face.  I would prefer Jake.

Pretty sure his absence has nothing to do with their safety and everything to do with his other children Carly and Sonny. Jagger came in hot with Danny yesterday, but I doubt he threatened Jason's sons to get him to cooperate.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I think Anna did the right thing by Dex, knowing that Sonny would have him killed for talking about the attack on Cyrus.  The DA is not going to take the word of Dex, a known associate of Sonny's, as proof that a crime was committed.  What law enforcement needs is the evidence of the illegal firearms sale to Pikeman--then they'll have the goods to put Sonny away.

Only in GH world. In other procedurals and real life, Dex would be considered a witness who turned in state's evidence and his testimony would be enough because he worked in the organization. How many real life mob lackeys did the same? Henry Hill? Sam "the Bull" Gravano, etc.

So what Anna did was a copout and dereliction as police commissioner. Robert NEVER pulled this shit when he was Commissioner; neither did Mac. Anna never used to when she was commissioner the first time, and the second time before being replaced by Jordan.

[Sake614]

Meh. Dex has zero proof of his accusations. And Diane would eviscerate him on the stand. He was too stupid to keep a copy of the USB drive from the Pikeman deal so there’s nothing tying Sonny to ir. I’m all of taking down the gummy bear mobster, but I want it to stick. 

[ffwbe]

8 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Only in GH world. In other procedurals and real life, Dex would be considered a witness who turned in state's evidence and his testimony would be enough because he worked in the organization. How many real life mob lackeys did the same? Henry Hill? Sam "the Bull" Gravano, etc.

So what Anna did was a copout and dereliction as police commissioner. Robert NEVER pulled this shit when he was Commissioner; neither did Mac. Anna never used to when she was commissioner the first time, and the second time before being replaced by Jordan.

I think law enforcement would make every effort to keep someone like him safe so he can testify (witness protection or some other protective custody) but Anna saying she’ll forget his statement because he’d be in danger is stupid. He chose to work for a criminal, any danger his life is in is on him and Anna claiming she thought Sonny was a decent guy is bs when in the same breath, she knows he’ll have Dex murdered for trying to put him away. 

[dubbel zout]

41 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Jagger came in hot with Danny yesterday, but I doubt he threatened Jason's sons to get him to cooperate.

He didn't say "tell me what you know about your father or I'll throw you in jail," but the fact that he's FBI and asking questions is certainly an implied threat.

[jsbt]

20 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So what Anna did was a copout and dereliction as police commissioner. Robert NEVER pulled this shit when he was Commissioner; neither did Mac. 

Mac also never landed a real hit on Sonny or Jason. No one has except for the Claudia Zacchara and A.J. cases in the 2010s, respectively, and the Claudia case was largely the project of an outside investigation and Dante's undercover op from what I can recall. In the end they ended up jailing Michael for a few months on that. And as for A.J., yes, Anna was different then.

But for now I can see Anna wanting to get it right, which is why she went to Wagger after sending Dex home. She clearly has bigger plans for Sonny and Dex's testimony is not enough. My concern though, as I said before, is if the show makes Anna get played should Wagger turn out to be truly nefarious here re: the Jason connection. I hope it's more complex than that.

Edited March 20 by jsbt

[Daisy]

3 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I appreciated Brooklyn's telling off John Cates for questioning Danny without an adult present.  If he keeps doing stupid things like that, any evidence they gather will get thrown out by the courts.

apparently it is legal in NY to question minors without parental consent if they are not accused of a crime. (which makes sense). so from what i gather John was in his rights to ask Danny questions. 

 

 

[dubbel zout]

22 minutes ago, Daisy said:

apparently it is legal in NY to question minors without parental consent if they are not accused of a crime.

Wow. If I were a parent, that would really piss me off. The opportunity for intimidation and/or bullying is right there.

[Cheyanne11]

5 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Wow. If I were a parent, that would really piss me off. The opportunity for intimidation and/or bullying is right there.

Yeah, Jagger noted that, too, so while I think it's definitely an intimidation tactic, Brooklyn claiming he could be fired for it had me rolling my eyes.  Different writers, same old heavy-handed 'the law is bad when it comes to Sonny and Jason' mindset.

[dubbel zout]

Brook Lynn let Yuri off the hook a little too easily, I thought. Law enforcement comes knocking on my door and I want an explanation or to see a warrant. Especially when it comes to talking to a kid, I'd push back on letting them in.

[ciarra]

4 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

What law enforcement needs is the evidence of the illegal firearms sale to Pikeman--then they'll have the goods to put Sonny away. 

The writers have shown how smart and savvy Dex is, he should have hidden a copy of the flash drive.  In case he ever decided he wasn't loyal to Sonny.

[Bringonthedrama]

19 hours ago, Sake614 said:

And does she know her loving father shot her brother in the chest because he was a cop? Oh I forgot. Bygones…🙄

[jacourt]

When my kids were in middle school we told them that if they ever taken to the office and questioned by anyone to say I want my parents here and say nothing. I worked for the school district. 
second thought I’m sure has been addressed before but it can be restated:  sonny is a predator. He took advantage of how many young vulnerable kids?  What a creep. The charm he uses now is what he used on those kids. 

[ffwbe]

I’m getting major anvils for Valentin/Nina reuniting. That’s somewhat surprising because I assumed that Valentin and Anna were only on pause due to JPS’ availability. However, if they are truly committed to resetting Anna as Ms. Law and order, having her with Valentin who is anything but makes little sense.  
 

It’s still early but I think Alexis has gotten the best reset and POV under the new writers so far. There’s been a few other interesting changes but hers is the most true to character. 

[dubbel zout]

Shut up, roboJames. Go drown in the Q lake. Tracy might have been a bit brusque (that's Tracy), but she's right that Cody should know how the horses under his care are doing without having to go look at them. 

Wow, Molly was making a huge leap thinking that Alexis getting her law license back would lead to her drinking again. Also, way to have faith in her current sobriety.

[ffwbe]

9 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Wow, Molly was making a huge leap thinking that Alexis getting her law license back would lead to her drinking again. Also, way to have faith in her current sobriety.

I did kind of understand Molly’s concern. It wasn’t about her going back to the law, it was more about if the plan to get her license back didn’t work. Both times she started drinking excessively were half triggered by a relationship but the other half was about her not being able to practice law since it’s so central to her. However, I think Alexis explained herself well regarding why she has to try. 

Tbh, I don’t think any of her daughters have been that great with her sobriety journey so I’m not surprised they are very surface level with things. We saw it with how they never really knew how to help her. They all needed to do therapy as much as Alexis did to learn how to deal with an alcoholic parent. 

[dubbel zout]

Alexis was in a very different place when she lost her license, and I don't know why Molly can't see that. I get her basic concern, but Alexis knows getting her license back is a long shot.

I wish those scenes had been more along the lines of Molly checking that Alexis has her sobriety checks in order, not that she's likely to have a relapse.

[KittyQ]

9 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

Especially since Jason experienced Sonny's 'death' during NF, and the fact that he didn't get word to ANYONE for two years is just cruel. 

Hmm. I wonder if he'll get the "Nina" treatment at some point for failing to report that he was alive. 

Sonny: "You can't act on information you don't have".  Really? Does Sonny get all the information before he overreacts? 

So, it took Dex confessing to attempted murder on Sonny's orders for Anna to see Sonny in a new light? Now what is she going to do? 

[ffwbe]

If those scenes between Sonny and Natalia were supposed to be a chem test, they failed miserably. Probably didn’t help that MB looked half asleep and like he was counting down in his head waiting for the scenes to end. 

[YaddaYadda]

15 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

If those scenes between Sonny and Natalia were supposed to be a chem test, they failed miserably. Probably didn’t help that MB looked half asleep and like he was counting down in his head waiting for the scenes to end. 

On the other hand I saw a bit of twinkle between Anna and Jagger.

Chase and BLQ are devoid of chemistry. I liked them better when they were pretending to be Bailey's parents.

I didn't mind the convo between Molly and Alexis. I think Molly's concerns are valid in that she saw her mother spiral. There was Neal's death too, which I think should have been brought up since it was part of that spiral.

James actor, not very good, but Tracy is great, so yeah . . . I'll take JE anyway I can get her, even if it's with child actors who are reading the phonebook.

[CeChase]

19 hours ago, driver18 said:

I got what Joss was saying. In her mind (and this relates back to the Jason being a smart killer conversation with Cameron after Franco was killed), when Jason killed it was in a dangerous situation where he was protecting Sonny (or Carly, or other family members). It wasn't cold-blooded. It wasn't premeditated as she said to Dex. Jason was defending Sonny (or the family). He was protecting the family from enemies, from dangerous situations, from threats. That is how she thought it was. She may have made comments now and then (like, oh, can't Jason just kill Nelle), but she didn't really mean it.

She never thought of Jason as an actual, honest-to-god HITMAN. As someone who killed someone because (as she pointed out to Carly or Dex, I forget which one) it was inconvenient to Sonny. There's a coldbloodedness, a premeditation to that that is beyond her moral compass to accept. She cannot justify it. But she realizes truly now that her mother can and does. For Jason.

Joss had never allowed herself to truly think it, to verbalize it, but it had been there in the back of her mind without actually thinking it through that she could/would do the same for Dex. But when she was confronted with the reality of it, she realized, nope, that is a line that she could not cross.

This is the kind of nuanced and thoughtful writing that we haven't gotten in years.

This is very thoughtful.  You make excellent points. 

16 hours ago, jsbt said:

Carly and co. used to compare Jason to a 9/11 first responder to her children. (And before anyone thinks otherwise, this was in the Tamara Braun years.) Later on, Morgan and Molly used to see the mob crew as superheroes or romantic protagonists. The cognitive dissonance in Joss does not shock me.

That's really gross and shows how terrible of a mother Carly is.  Obviously, Sonny is an equally bad father.