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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH


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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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Did Robert even know Epiphany? I'm sure he probably did, but I don't really remember ever seeing them together.

Ridiculous as it was, I understand Marshall's reasoning.  It's hard when you inadvertently put someone at the scene of their death.

 

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I'm probably in the minority, but this episode is not doing it for me. I'm not sure why but it's not hitting. 

I really enjoyed the Brad/Felix scene b/c I always liked those two. Until RC/Lucas came along, I shipped Bralix! I wouldn't mind seeing more of those two. ---- I liked them holding hands at the end. 

I hate Curtis but DT was looking mighty good in those glasses. He's a very attractive man. Too bad the character he plays is an ass. 

I know many don't like Sonny but I loved MB's look when he was paralyzed. He was looking really good w/the beard, IMO. I knew they would do a FB to him and Epiphany when he was paralyzed. I don't recall them interacting otherwise.

I hate Michael but don't know why he wasn't there to support his dead, dying wife! The one time he should have been there he wasn't.  

I loved Marshall's reaction to hearing Milo was Epiphany's ex. His scene w/Milo at the end was nice. 

I actually really liked Marshall/Epiphany. I thought they were cute. 

Can someone explain why Liz thought Epiphany was angry w/her? Just b/c the letter hadn't come? Was that it? Did Epiphany send her a nasty text or something re: that Esme mess? 

---- These ending FBs are much better. I still don't think the character needed to die but whatever. 

RIP Sonya!!!  I will definitely miss Epiphany!! 

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I'm not crying, you're crying.

As much as we've been joking about Cam returning this summer with Emma on his arm, I literally started crying when Anna opened the door and there was Emma.  In town for the memorial, representing her parents who couldn't be there, but stopping by to see Grandma first.  

The stupid:  willow being there.  She was a nurse for literally 2 episodes before she got sick.  Plus, I don't think leukemia patients, two days away from getting their transfer, should be hanging out in hospitals where germs are.  Guh.  

Edited by perkie1968
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I wasn’t expecting much from Yvette Nicole Brown’s cameo, but I think she did a great job with the well written words and gave the Epiphany character her one shining moment. Everything else was about another character (Liz, Sonny, Willow, etc.)

The fireworks were fun.

3 minutes ago, lala2 said:

I know many don't like Sonny but I loved MB's look when he was paralyzed. He was looking really good w/the beard, IMO. I knew they would do a FB to him and Epiphany when he was paralyzed. I don't recall them interacting otherwise.

Same. She also got to say a full on “stubborn son of a…”. 😁

Haven’t been a Liz fan for decades so her maybe getting promoted after being an accomplice to kidnapping, because of a letter from Epiphany, is too much for me. 

(I’m assuming that Leslie Charleson was not present in person due to health issues, which saddens me.)

Not sure if it was streaming provider or ABC issues, but the last scenes kept freezing on me while the sound was fine so I heard Sonya’s singing but didn’t see her. I’m think it’s from a past Nurse’s Ball? Or was it all flashbacks?

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11 minutes ago, lala2 said:

Can someone explain why Liz thought Epiphany was angry w/her? Just b/c the letter hadn't come? Was that it? Did Epiphany send her a nasty text or something re: that Esme mess? 

I’m guessing that she thought Epiphany was disappointed with her. 
 

Lucy should have been on the balcony with Anna during the fireworks. 

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This was a decent episode but Elizabeth and Felix definitely carried it. Maybe because those are the only 2 whose bonds with Epiphany we actually saw. I never saw much of her relationships with Marshall or Milo to care about their pain and they probably found Willow’s one and only convo with Epiphany for that flashback. Everyone else mainly only knew her as a colleague or their nurse. 

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17 minutes ago, lala2 said:

Can someone explain why Liz thought Epiphany was angry w/her? Just b/c the letter hadn't come? Was that it?

Yes.  Liz took Pip's silence (no letter, no answering calls) as condemnation.

Edited by ciarra
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I'm sorry that the actress has passed but Epiphany herself was often biased, snotty, unfair and rude,  The last time I liked the character was in Night Shift. The ass-kissing writing for her (Milo worrying that he is not good enough for her, the idea that she would get into Johns Hopkins) was very off-putting.  And I find it hard to believe that Portia and Epiphany laughed so much during their year studying for MCATs that they hardly got work done.

Robert was looking very sharp with black suit, black tie and dark grey shirt.

I know how Liz is a Hardy but what is the March connection?

Sonny and Carly looking at each other during the fireworks -- Nooooooo!

Obrecht has no experience with  the danger of pyrotechnics, was this Epiphany's last attempt to take her out?

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Willow should be wearing a mask. So should everyone else, as they're in a hospital, but I can hand wave that. But Willow? PUT ON A MASK, YOU IDIOT.

I loved how you could see genuine affection and warmth between Anna, Robert, and Emma.

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I know how Liz is a Hardy but what is the March connection?

Was that Audrey's maiden name?

I thought this was a really nice memorial to Pip and Sonya Eddy both.

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42 minutes ago, Desperado said:

Same. She also got to say a full on “stubborn son of a…”. 😁

Yeah . . . I really enjoyed those Epiphany/Sonny moments during that time! She was good at pushing him!

38 minutes ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

I’m guessing that she thought Epiphany was disappointed with her. 

I guess . . . but it's not like she heard from Epiphany, and she knew Epiphany was looking at medical schools to attend! I just wonder why she jumped to thinking Epiphany no longer liked her. It's just weird. 

34 minutes ago, ciarra said:

Yes.  Liz took Pip's silence (no letter, no answering calls) as condemnation.

Dang, Liz. Can't the woman have been busy?!? 

 

---- Admittedly, all the hemming and hawing Liz has done about this Esme thing has bugged me to no end! Characters like Carly kidnap old ladies and literally no one cares, but Niz keep a suspected serial killer hostage, and it's the crime of the century. The imbalance and double standard on this show is too much for me. It doesn't help that I couldn't care less that Esme was held hostage! She got what she deserved AFAIC. I was sick of hearing Liz whine about it, so hearing her whine about Epiphany not calling her back or whatever annoyed me too! LOL! Just shut up, Liz! lol

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Nice tribute, and I was relieved when we finally got some flashbacks at the end, because I couldn't remember why some of the characters felt a need to be at the memorial.  

I was about to dream up a scenario where Cam and Emma ran into each other at the airport and made plans to get together in CA.  But then I saw Cam in previews, and realized they'll have to run into each other in Port Charles first.  Also saw the interview that tells me we'll see Cam return in the summer, which was very welcome news, but also made me wonder about why we had such a relatively elaborate farewell.  I'd definitely be up for a little Cam/Esme or even Cam/Esme/Emma storyline to while away the summer months.  Spencer and Esme have a few months to totally muck things up before Cam gets back to set them straight.  

I could be enticed by Emma moving in with her grandfather for a while.  TR plays 'crotchety' well.  Might be good fun.

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24 minutes ago, JMO said:

but also made me wonder about why we had such a relatively elaborate farewel

 

It made sense plot wise that there would be a farewell party for Cam moving. And it got Esme out in public.

I was thinking that maybe Pip's request of Obrecht was to sing.

I almost didn't recognize Emma at first, she has really matured into a beautiful young lady. How much younger that Cam is she in GH years? 

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11 minutes ago, Blackie said:

I almost didn't recognize Emma at first, she has really matured into a beautiful young lady. How much younger that Cam is she in GH years? 

Four and a half years if you go by the onscreen birth date--Cam was born on May 11, 2004 and Emma on November 4, 2008.  The actress who plays Emma will be 17 in a couple weeks.

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29 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I thought the actor who plays Milo did a good job in his short scenes with Sonny today.

I think it was more genuine grief than acting, tbh. You could tell this was painful for him.

Whatever happened to him and Max anyway? It sounds like they're both still working for Sonny.

I think Terri missing from this tribute was a bit stupid since she's the chief of staff.

I don't even know why Willow was there, but we got to see Willow pre-cult of the Carlys so I guess that's that. 

I don't understand why Elizabeth jumped to the conclusion that Epiphany hated her because she wasn't answering her calls and texts. What a weird conclusion. Maybe it's because it's my personality, but I would be more worried that something bad happened to that person.

I was not a fan of Epiphany. I don't mind a no nonsense attitude, but I thought she tended to come off as rude in her caring if that makes sense. 

But I did like Sonya Eddy and what happened to her is just really sad. For me, she will forever be Rebecca De Mornay, threatening George over his toilet book. 

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8 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Whatever happened to him and Max anyway? It sounds like they're both still working for Sonny.

 

No Milo offered to come back and help out and Sonny said he NO because he was one of the few that were able to get out of the business and still live, so not sure what he is doing now but I don't think it is working for Sonny.

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Glad the show honored Sonya Eddy as it did. And am glad, if Patrick/Robin could not be there (Patrick for obvious reasons with JT elsewhere!), at least Emma represented them, so to speak.

But my mind boggles that Brooklyn Silzer will soon be 17! I think I just sprouted 20 new gray hairs. I think Emma is still supposed to be a bit younger, being born in 2008, but who knows? Either way, glad Emma was there.

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Well I'm a closet softie and I shed a tear for SE/Pip ...but, I am STILL pissed at how they shafted SD/Alan Q!!!

Also, the giant fireworks that Anna could see all the way at the safe house in the woods cracked me up. That little row of rockets Dr. O lit up lasted long enough for Liz to have a conversation with Leslie and make her way to the roof and they were still going.

 

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3 hours ago, lala2 said:

I’m probably in the minority, but this episode is not doing it for me. I'm not sure why but it's not hitting. 

Agree. I’m finding it underwhelming. 

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48 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't understand why Elizabeth jumped to the conclusion that Epiphany hated her because she wasn't answering her calls and texts. What a weird conclusion. Maybe it's because it's my personality, but I would be more worried that something bad happened to that person.

Exactly!! It's a weird jump for me too!! That's why I found it weird. Maybe it's all the Dateline, 20/20, and true crimes I've consumed over the years, but my mind would have gone to her being hurt first too, esp if no one had heard from her. Now, if Piph was talking to everyone but Liz then I could understand the jump, but she wasn't/hadn't responded to anyone. 

@Gigi43 - I didn't think that was LC's voice. It sounded nothing like her. Was it her though? 

Edited by lala2
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On 3/27/2023 at 9:13 PM, Aymery said:

I think the show has contributed to it by dragging out how long it took for Sprina to even kiss, and how many "near-misses" they've had. In that sense it does feel very old school where romances took months, even years, to develop into a full-fledged relationship, but modern fans aren't quite as patient (in all aspects of storytelling) and it does stick out like discriminatory treatment when all the other couples on the show don't face the same long wait or obstacles.

Their fans are just too much.  They lose their minds over a kiss, then make 25,000 gifs of it and flood Twitter and the message boards with them. Whenever they do fall into bed, I might have to avoid the internet that day.  I was on another board and they described that fanbase as being like the fanbase that Ciara and the serial killer had on Days of Our Lives and I have to agree.

And discriminatory?  Please.

8 hours ago, ffwbe said:

Valentin/Anna’s little adventures have been lame. I think you have to be a super fan of that pairing to be engaged in what they’re doing because not only are their plans dumb, I find their scenes boring. They definitely need to return to town and do something new. I know Anna doesn’t do much beyond investigations these days but they normally do a lot more with Valentin than this. 

I think you have to be a super fan of the character to enjoy any pairing that they’re in.  Hell, I think you have to be a super fan of this show to enjoy it. Because I am bored right now.  The pairings suck.  The stories are awful.  Now, you have to deal with Nurses Ball nonsense coming up.  It’s all so very awful.

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm sorry that the actress has passed but Epiphany herself was often biased, snotty, unfair and rude,  The last time I liked the character was in Night Shift. The ass-kissing writing for her (Milo worrying that he is not good enough for her, the idea that she would get into Johns Hopkins) was very off-putting.  And I find it hard to believe that Portia and Epiphany laughed so much during their year studying for MCATs that they hardly got work done.

Same for me.  Probably explains why I feel nothing for this episode.

Edited by superdeluxe
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4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

This must have been a tough episode for everyone, given that Sonya Eddy really died.

Yes, I'm glad for their sakes they skipped right to the funeral, rather than a couple of episodes of everyone getting the news, one by one.

I do have to say that while I get the reservations about Diane as a romantic partner with Robert, TR has always really lit up around her, and that is fun to see. Whatever makes those blue eyes twinkle, I'm there for it!

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[Sorry, edited because I linked to the wrong quote. I was responding to @Katy M's question of how Robert knew Epiphany]  In the flashbacks, they showed her as Robert's nurse. I wasn't watching at the time, but I think that's when he had his cancer storyline.

@lala2, it sounded just like LC's voice to me, for what it's worth. It didn't even occur to me to wonder. It actually got me pretty emotional.

Forgot to say that I really enjoyed seeing Laura and Felicia together at the funeral, and having scenes together. (Which makes sense, as the wives of best friends who are also working on this Victor thing together.)  Even though Felicia was kind of brought on as "NuLaura" several years after Genie left the show, in reality the actresses are basically the same age and they work well together. 

 

Edited by Auntie Velvet
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On 3/24/2023 at 5:17 PM, statsgirl said:

Victor: I've spent a large part of my life trying to make this world a better place." Me:🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣  And stupid Spencer is buying it.

I don't care how many years Epiphany was a Supernurse, there is no way she's getting into Johns Hopkins medical school without a serious research C.V. Pick another school, show.

Laura: "My newest grandson." That led to me think about what grandsons she already has: Spencer, Cameron (non-biological), Jake (non-biological), Aiden, Rocco, and now Ace. One grand daugher, Charlotte.

Joss guilting Sonny for the dangers of mob life while sleeping with his protege.  Telling  Cameron "I couldn't sleep with someone else so soon after breaking up with you if it wasn't serious" ignoring that she slept with Dex before she broke up with Cam. Keep it hypocritical, Carly Jr.

Although it shocks oldersters like me, apparently breaking up by text is acceptable for people of Joss' age. I guess she was too busy sexing up Dex to reach for her phone.

The thinly veiled contempt in her voice was wonderful.

Like her mother, Joss is a fragile special flower and must be protected by the men who love her.

This metaanalysis looked at rates from 1989 to 2001 and found that African Americans were 3 to 4 time more liked to be diagnosed with schizophrenia as Whites/Europeans because of clinical bias and sociological factors such as lack of access to healthcare,  A personality disorder diagnosis wouldn't get Marshall incarcerated while a psychosis one might.

Sorry this goes back a couple of pages and I’m just catching up.

I’m aware there have always been and continue to be racial biases in healthcare.  But people with ASPD are quite often incarcerated.  The 1st criterion for the diagnosis of ASPD is:

 1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.

There has been a lot of talk of the prison system, rehabilitation, and wrongfully assigning PDs (which are rigid and very difficult to treat) based on race, so that’s what I was thinking of when I made my comment about the potential Marshall storyline.

But you’re right, people with psychotic disorders frequently get locked up as well, i honestly didn’t think about that when I made my comment.

 

Edited by Jenxee
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Pips letter to Liz did get me. And I do like the idea of Steve and Audrey's grand daughter as GH's head nurse, but coming so quickly after her disciplinary hearing, a promotion seems odd. 

 

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2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I was not a fan of Epiphany. I don't mind a no nonsense attitude, but I thought she tended to come off as rude in her caring if that makes sense.

She was rude.  And played favorites in an obnoxious way.  I'm very sad the actress passed away, but I really disliked Epiphany.

Willow is having her transplant in two days and not only isn't she in isolation, but she hasn't had major chemo to obliterate her diseased bone marrow.  i fully except her to be recovered enough to perform at the NB at this rate.

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23 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

 

Willow is having her transplant in two days and not only isn't she in isolation, but she hasn't had major chemo to obliterate her diseased bone marrow.  i fully except her to be recovered enough to perform at the NB at this rate.

Not just perform, but step in at the last minute, unrehearsed, and save the day.😉

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6 hours ago, lala2 said:

RIP Sonya!!!  I will definitely miss Epiphany!! 

Yes RIP Sonya!  

6 hours ago, perkie1968 said:

I'm not crying, you're crying.

As much as we've been joking about Cam returning this summer with Emma on his arm, I literally started crying when Anna opened the door and there was Emma.  In town for the memorial, representing her parents who couldn't be there, but stopping by to see Grandma first.  

 

Emma is gorgeous!!  It was so nice to see her and I just love how Finola interacts with her tv family, it looks and feels so genuine!  I like actors that create that onscreen warmth and chemistry especially on Soaps where chemistry and family is so important.

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I loved how you could see genuine affection and warmth between Anna, Robert, and Emma.

I thought this was a really nice memorial to Pip and Sonya Eddy both.

Yes the Scorpios are one of those families who are just believable.

I also thought it was a really nice memorial.  I think if Sonya didn't pass I wouldn't have been so emotional (I cried buckets yall) because I wasn't that invested in the character; but I've seen the actress on so many different things as well as on GH and she had some great moments on this show outside of the caricature the character started out as and I'm just sorry she died so young and sorry for those that loved her.

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3 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Well I'm a closet softie and I shed a tear for SE/Pip ...but, I am STILL pissed at how they shafted SD/Alan Q!!!

 

Yes, very angry about giving SD the shaft!!  He deserved a full episode just like they gave John Reilly.

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I wish someone would grant Willow's death wish. She's done nothing to prepare for her procedure.

Also, Carly was particularly orange looking today. Maybe it looks better in real life but it does not look great on my TV.

Curtis, you're an ass but you do know how to wear a suit.

Diane's coat is fabulous - costuming seems to have finally gotten flannel/plaid out of their system and moved on to really great coats.

 

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I thought today was really well done. Everyone was wonderful.

RIP Sonya Eddy.

Also, I had just read the interview @DanaK posted in the GH In The News thread before watching today's episode. I was already feeling grateful that Genie Francis, Tristan Rogers, Kristina Wagner and Kin Shrine had persevered after so many years of shit writers and hateful producers and more than one egomaniacal actor who thought the show should revolve around them ...

And then to see Laura and Robert hugging outside of GH, and Anna and Felicia with grown up Emma, and Robert and Emma! It makes me happy and gives me great comfort that they are still willing to be here for us to enjoy.

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48 minutes ago, Kitty Redstone said:

And then to see Laura and Robert hugging outside of GH, and Anna and Felicia with grown up Emma, and Robert and Emma! It makes me happy and gives me great comfort that they are still willing to be here for us to enjoy.

I agree. The show still has a huge amount of major issues, but it's also changed for the better in some ways in recent years and the very dedicated use of the veteran cast is one of them; they really honor those historical friendships with Laura, Robert, Felicia, Anna, Lucy, Mac, Kevin, etc. that go back decades, that the audience watched live and breathe. Maybe it's happened because the show has run other vets off and it's by necessity lol, but it still is very, very valuable how consistent and strongly featured these characters and their love for each other are. And so unusual now. It's not cutesy lip service like how Frank and Ron would often toss off scenes for 'the olds' in the mid-2010s either. The stuff with Mac, Kevin, Felicia, etc. about Ryan recently has real weight and deep roots.

The show has also put out a series of decent memorial episodes for people. The John Reilly one was a bit silly but mostly very heartfelt, and had a beautiful use of his daughter. This one was even better.

Leslie Charleson being left to a voice cameo - I'm so glad she did it, but the last time this happened that I can recall it was because either Sharon Wyatt's illness or other circumstances had apparently left her unable to appear onscreen for whatever reason, and so Tiffany was used by voice over the phone instead at John Reilly/Sean Donely's memorial. Leslie supposedly had a fall or accident around this time last year and was expected back soon. Now this. I don't want to worry about her, but I do. I am glad they wove her in any way they could. And while I do wish they'd managed to get Kimberly, and Kent Masters King and Minae Noji as Lainey Winters and Kelly Lee, having Emma appear in the Drakes' stead was decent enough. Brooklyn Rae Silzer has improved.

Another thing the show has gotten better at is realizing where the real meat and weight of audience investment is. I may not love every story she has and find her pairing with Kevin milquetoast, but Mayor Laura is extremely central to the show and canvas these days. She's the heart. The same goes for Elizabeth; they throw her at every loser under the sun, from serial killer to Michael Easton, in part because they know and have increasingly valued just how important she is to the audience. So Elizabeth becomes the linchpin and centerpiece of this episode and her catharsis is the audience's catharsis. They know her value to the show and have slowly begun acknowledging it. Now if she could just get more A-story for her own sake, and not for Easton or Howarth's continued employment.

I admittedly found Epiphany annoying as hell a lot of the time - I never understood her forced admiration for the mob scene considering Sonny and Jason got her son stuffed in a trunk and killed, and I didn't like that soppy song they had her sing to Sabrina and Emma at the 2013 Ball which repeated at the end of this episode. But it was tradition so they used it and that's fine, and Sonya Eddy was a lovely woman who was absolutely devoted to the show so I was sad for her and for the cast and the show. You could see Drew Cheetwood (never much of an actor) and Carolyn Hennesy were barely holding it together, even in their earliest scenes. It was all very touching, and it was well done.

Edited by jsbt
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Wow, they blew the budget on that sendoff.   A large number of the cast, and not just two people in a room, then two people in another room.  Especially surprising since they just did Cameron's farewell party. 

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I'm glad Sonya Eddy got the memorial she deserved but that just makes the lack of memorial for Stuart Damon more irksome. They couldn't have written the opening of a new wing or the establishment of a new scholarship in Dr. Alan Quartermaine's honor into the show? 

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I thought the Epiphany tribute episode was good. Becky Herbst and tele-Leslie were the MVPs. I am glad they used a lot of clips from the older episodes. 

I never disliked the character. Yeah, she was a mob apologist and one of those characters the writers use to let us know what we're supposed to think of the other characters, but that's just it: she wasn't really a character who was at the center of stories and driving them. I liked her because of Sonya Eddy, who was always great onscreen and off. Remember that story about Eddy pummeling Suge Knight when he laid hands on GH Night Shift actress Angel Wainwright at a Vegas event? 

So I'm happy SE got a nice send-off. 

And really, being touched by an episode like this doesn't always mean you loved the character. Maybe you just remember how long she was around, and it makes you think of changes in your own life since 2005, other people you've had to say goodbye to in that time.

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Wow, I didn’t expect that episode to get to me like it did: several of the actors were clearly mourning their friend and colleague and not just playing a role. I thought the opening montage of characters’ reactions was well done and the photo collage of Sonya was a nice touch. They even managed to inject a tiny bit of levity with Leisl and the fireworks.

I barely recognized Emma; BRS could easily fit in with the current college crew! Disappointing but understandable that LC couldn’t join in person.

Were KeMo and BA paid as extras today? I don’t think they had any lines. 

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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