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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH


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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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10 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

When did Sonny stop being a horrible villain? He's a mob boss who has had quite a number of people murdered, beaten etc. I realize he's allegedly changed since the prolonged trip to NF but come on! I notice he hasn't given up the mob life despite this alleged change. Honestly I don't care about Michael but I sure care even less about Sonny.

I'm not into the Sonny/Nina pairing but if it keeps him away from Carly then that's fine. I don't think Drew/Carly has much more chemistry than Sonny/Nina but whatever - if it keeps Carly away from Sonny so be it. Though I cannot figure out what Nina or Drew sees in either of those monsters!

6 hours ago, Tenshinhan said:

Those people he had murdered and beaten are usually rival mobsters, so I don't think that necessarily makes Sonny some kind of evil monster.  He's a criminal, yes, but that doesn't automatically make him horrible in my view.

To answer the first post, the show decided to "change" Sonny from a sleazy strip club owner that groomed and forced a sexually abused Karen Wexler to strip when they decided to pair him with Brenda. To the second post, I disagree that Sonny wasn't always a horrible villain that the show never acknowledged. He was complex during his Brenda years, but once they paired him with Carly and more importantly, Guza and his overinflated ego with JFP (maybe before Guza returned), he turned into a horrible villain. 

  • He hang AJ on a meat hook and threatened to stage an accident unless he signed over his parental rights, because his shrew of an ex wife couldn't even have AJ have supervised visitation with Michael. Never corrected when Guza come back.
  • He had assassins go  to kill AJ on his honeymoon with Courtney (when she wasn't terrible at that time CAJey was superior to Journey from the few clips I saw)
  • He groomed a brain damaged Jason and fully turned him against his family and turned him into a hitman
  • He kidnapped Johnny Zachara from his home. He thought he kidnapped Michael (Michael ran away) and just kept Johnny. Claudia even went to Sonny promising no further trouble if he let Johnny go. Sonny refused even though he knew Johnny never made a move on his family. That is why Claudia put a hit on Sonny and Michael got shot. 
  • He shot his own son in the chest and expected Dante to forgive him.
  • He killed AJ. While it isn't a good idea to attack woman, AJ was the only one that seemed interested in finding out how Kate Howard. He was acquitted of the charges, but the guilt of possibly killing Kate ate he alive. Ava, Sonny and Carly proceeded to cover up his 2nd degree murder.

There is other crap, but I have to get to work.

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Where I felt Sonny began to curdle was in '99, late in Guza's first tenure, when he was officially paired with Hannah but edging closer to Carly. Hate Sex was near the end of that year. The pairing ruined Carly too, for me. Neither of them was a favorite character of mine even before that, but boy, did they bring out the worst in each other. 

17 hours ago, ffwbe said:

I read an interview of hers from years ago regarding this that gave me pause. She said something along the lines of having chemistry with a costar is part of the job and if she was told to have chemistry with that lamp over there, she would. She seemed to view chemistry as something everyone has if they worked hard enough, which I definitely don’t agree with.

I don't either. But it is a view some actors have. I was surprised to read something similar from Kevin Bacon once. He just dismissed the idea that there was such a thing as "chemistry"; he said your job is to make it work with whatever costar you have, and if it doesn't work, someone isn't doing their job. I just don't think it's that simple. I've seen excellent actors apparently giving it all they've got, and whatever each of them had with other people just wasn't there. And it isn't always about getting along or not getting along behind the scenes, either. Sometimes people have incredible chemistry on screen, and then we read that they didn't like each other. 

Edited by Asp Burger
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2 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

I just don't think it's that simple. I've seen excellent actors apparently giving it all they've got, and whatever each of them had with other people just wasn't there. And it isn't always about getting along or not getting along behind the scenes, either. Sometimes people have incredible chemistry on screen, and then we read that they didn't like each other. 

And as we learned from Joey on Friends if you have chemistry in real life, you won't have it on stage and vice versa:)

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Whatever one thinks of Sonny, the only difference between the Sonny of today and the one of a year ago who Michael and Joss supported 100% is that he isn't willing to murder Nina and leave her body in the badlands.

Michael is manipulating Dex very much like Sonny manipulated brain injury Jason back in the day targeting his vulnerability.

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6 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:
  • He hang AJ on a meat hook and threatened to stage an accident unless he signed over his parental rights, because his shrew of an ex wife couldn't even have AJ have supervised visitation with Michael. Never corrected when Guza come back.
  • He had assassins go  to kill AJ on his honeymoon with Courtney (when she wasn't terrible at that time CAJey was superior to Journey from the few clips I saw)
  • He groomed a brain damaged Jason and fully turned him against his family and turned him into a hitman
  • He kidnapped Johnny Zachara from his home.    
  • He shot his own son in the chest and expected Dante to forgive him.
  • He killed AJ.   

None of this is particularly evil, in my view.  Morally questionable, perhaps, but not evil.  Sonny is a criminal, so he can be somewhat villainous.

But again, generally speaking, most of Sonny's murders are rival mobsters and criminals.

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3 hours ago, Tenshinhan said:

None of this is particularly evil, in my view.  Morally questionable, perhaps, but not evil.  Sonny is a criminal, so he can be somewhat villainous.

But again, generally speaking, most of Sonny's murders are rival mobsters and criminals.

Generally speaking, only Johnny Zacchara "deserved" what he got, if the logic is that Sonny being a mobster means he can be villainous. A.J., Karen, Dante, Jason right after his accident, and to a point even  Michael and Carly (don't throw rocks)  are Sonny's victims without being criminals, which is the line that's never really been drawn within the confines of the show. At least not for a long time. Saying, "Well, he's a mobster so of course he does bad things" only works if you also acknowledge how many good people he's done things to hurt.

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AJ was a rival mobster? Who knew?

Well I mean he was fat ... so maybe that's worse than being a rival mobster?

I guess mileage varies but I don't think Sonny has suddenly become a 'good' character because he lost his memory for a while in NF and now he's supposedly Smike. Sonny is always Sonny and the character is just as gross as Michael or Carly. I haven't the slightest idea what Nina is supposed to see in him.

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21 hours ago, zengirl1215 said:

Joss and Cam are great friends, but Joss has outgrown him. And that's not a dig on Cam but it's not uncommon for young couples to split up. Lots of girls go through that 'bad boy' phase...and nothing makes a girl want a guy more than being told to stay away from him. And vice verse. But the sparring that's happening between Joss and Dex comes off as foreplay. Eventually something or someone has to give or give in. 😉

Not thrilled that Esme is back. Good actress but a little Esme goes a long way. 

I do think first young love goes this way sometimes and it can be really hard for people to recognize it or know how to end it. And if it were anyone else I’d have a modicum of sympathy but It’s hard for me to see Joss as anything but selfish. Not just because she’s stringing him along but because the show will make it somehow not her fault in the end. 

I was hoping they’d bring Esme back with full on amnesia and thinking her baby is Spencer’s. I like the actress enough that I don’t want the character painted into the crazy corner. But I do kind or appreciate how far Nikolas is willing to go in purely selfish pursuits. I’m finding him entertaining these days which is a fun surprise. 

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I never bought that Joss was that into Cam at any point. He was just around and she knew he liked her. At the Jarly wedding, she was talking to Michael and asking if she’d ever find love again after Oscar and she was already dating Cam by then 

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On 10/11/2022 at 4:20 PM, perkie1968 said:

1-  He's too nice of a guy, which isn't allowed on this show

2-Sprina is end game so something has to break up Trina and Rory

3- His gig on Chicago PD is longer than a few episodes so they need to write him out

4- He’s not white, so his time on this show was always limited anyway.

On 10/12/2022 at 6:53 AM, perkie1968 said:

Im guessing Willow will lose her baby because of the cancer.   I mean, I'm looking forward to Michael being all wooby sad, isn't everyone else?  

I’m not looking forward to either Willow or Michael stealing Esme’s baby and passing it off as their own, but I will endure it as long as we get a few scenes of Lucas and/or Brad enjoying the irony.

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50 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

I’m not looking forward to either Willow or Michael stealing Esme’s baby and passing it off as their own, but I will endure it as long as we get a few scenes of Lucas and/or Brad enjoying the irony.

Hey, like Jax and Carly with Spencer! Unless Nikolas gives them the baby because he's Nikolas and does things for reasons.

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5 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I’m not looking forward to either Willow or Michael stealing Esme’s baby and passing it off as their own, but I will endure it as long as we get a few scenes of Lucas and/or Brad enjoying the irony.

Double points to the writers if we see Lucas and/or Brad actually sipping tea while enjoying the irony.

This story with Michael wanting revenge on Sonny would be so much stronger if it weren't based on what is essentially a giant temper of Michael's that Sonny isn't arranging his personal life to Michael's satisfaction. The problem started much earlier, of course, with Michael not ever having a problem with Sonny being a mobster. Michael has always been more than happy to name drop Sonny when it suits him, and as we've discussed during this inane story, for him to suddenly now be too dainty to accept what Sonny does is beyond hypocritical.

I wish they'd written Michael to be more like Dante: Someone who loves his father but knows he's not perfect, as none of us are. (I know it's more complicated than that.) Michael seems to hold Sonny to a ridiculous standard despite years of evidence to the contrary. But only now, when Michael's feelings are hurt, does he decide he has to do something. And it's over something that isn't doesn't even really affect him on a daily basis, save for having to see Nina occasionally. Sonny's personal life, however distasteful Michael finds it, is Sonny's business.

It will never happen, but I really want Nina to play hardball with Michael and Willow when it finally comes out that she's Willow's mother and Willow needs her bone marrow. Just shove the knife into those asshole dolts and turn it slowly for a while. (It reminds me of the OLTL story when Jessica needed a new liver or something and David Vickers was the only suitable available donor, and he wanted a big chunk of change for the donation. [It was a living-donor situation.] Everyone was aghast, but hey, that was David Vickers. He might have been scum, be he didn't apologize for it. I actually loved that story, because it knocked some of the hypocrisy out of people, and David delighted in needling Jessica and her family that he was her donor.)

18 hours ago, racked said:

But I do kind or appreciate how far Nikolas is willing to go in purely selfish pursuits.

It's very in character for him, though of course it always backfires pretty spectacularly. I wonder how long it will take Ava to find out that Esmé is not only back but pregnant.

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56 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Everyone was aghast, but hey, that was David Vickers. He might have been scum, be he didn't apologize for it. I actually loved that story, because it knocked some of the hypocrisy out of people, and David delighted in needling Jessica and her family that he was her donor.)

Oh man, I was so annoyed when David let himself be guilted into giving the money back. It's not like the $10 million he asked for was going to bankrupt the billionaire Buchanans! If I were they, I'd jump at the chance to get a donor for my dying daughter for an amount of money I'd barely miss.

As for Michael, I can never forget that he forgave Sonny for murdering AJ, so am I supposed to be remotely invested in his anger over who Sonny chooses to date? Please, that's a joke.

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To my surprise, I actually enjoyed the mention of Peter August today -- that's how much I dislike so many of the current storylines.

I really didn't need Bobbie showing up to tell Carly how wonderful she is.  More than enough people already do that. What Carly needs is someone being honest and telling her the truth about herself.

I also don't need Dante telling Cody how much better than Britt she is, and that Britt doesn't care about anyone else except herself. Britt isn't perfect but she's better than Cody. I did like Cody calling out Sam that she can't tell Dante without revealing what Spinelli did.

Why does Sam need to intervene between Alexis and Kristina? She really does nothing but interfere with other people's affairs. Spinelli can take care of himself, or if he can't, he shouldn't do illegal stuff.

The good;  the awkwardness of Martin/Lucy/Victor.  He may be scum but he has nice taste in jewellery.

"You know that once upon a time, being a public servant meant serving the public. Nowadays everyone's got an agenda.'  Well not everyone, Robert, but many people.

When Anna told Robert that he misses having a partner,  I thought "Cue Holly".

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On 10/12/2022 at 12:17 PM, statsgirl said:

"Sandy Shores Cemetery is a vital part of Jacksonville" IT'S A CEMETERY, NOT A PARK! Let me get this straight -- Carly wants to stop people being able to access the beach in order to be able to keep a bunch of dead bodies close to it?  And I'm supposed to be on her side?

Vital - word origin: late Middle English (describing the animating principle of living beings, also in vital): via Old French from Latin vitalis, from vita ‘life’. The sense ‘essential’ dates from the early 17th century.

Could any cemetery be described as "vital"? 

The thing to do to preserve a cemetery is have it identified as "historical". However, that would require for the cemetery to be very old and/or have prominent people buried there, I think. I doubt that Carly's mom's cemetery would qualify.

Joss and Cam: I empathize with Joss's wariness after having her first sexual experience being broadcast to the whole university, but why hasn't she been sharing this with Cam before now? This should be something they as a couple figure out. Instead, Cam says that he can't remember when they've been alone together. Yikes, not even being alone to talk? That's extreme, and I think that Joss is clearly ready to move on. Probably a good thing for Cam, even though he won't realize it yet.

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Sam looked cute today in her blazer.  Spin’s outfit was good too, modern but not overly trendy.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, no surprise, Maxie.  Just terrible.  It also looks like Kristen Storms might have gotten lip fillers.  They don’t look great.

Oh hahaha, let’s laugh at the fact that Carly blew into town like a hurricane aiming to destroy every part of Bobbie’s life. Yeah, I’d say that was a bit of a rough patch Barbara Jean. I’m so glad these two can laugh about that.  They are both awful.

I didn’t like that Britt was looking down her nose on horse trainers, but since the horse trainer in question is Cody I’ll allow it.  There is nothing about his storyline I care about.

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1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I really didn't need Bobbie showing up to tell Carly how wonderful she is.  More than enough people already do that. What Carly needs is someone being honest and telling her the truth about herself.

I know. This is why they dragged JZ out of the Seniors Closet? (Ugh, the baby voice is back in full force.) And really, the niece of the notorious madam is hardly going to make things go smoother. Also, "the Beautification Guild" has always sounded more like a charity/private entity than a city commission. 

"The NSA can never find out." Oh, Sam. You are such a dunce.

1 hour ago, KittyQ said:

Joss and Cam: I empathize with Joss's wariness after having her first sexual experience being broadcast to the whole university, but why hasn't she been sharing this with Cam before now? This should be something they as a couple figure out.

They talked about it once before, I believe, and decided they weren't ready to do anything at the time. This will probably be why they break up. Joss will feel Cam is "pressuring" her to have sex or something equally dumb, when of course he's been nothing but accommodating of her feelings. Ugh. 

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1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Why does Sam need to intervene between Alexis and Kristina? She really does nothing but interfere with other people's affairs. Spinelli can take care of himself, or if he can't, he shouldn't do illegal stuff.

I think they’re really grasping for things for Sam to do while Dante is working and/or dealing with something regarding Sonny. Today was pointless because I don’t see how Sam will be of any help with Spinelli’s crimes. Cody blackmailing him isn’t the only way he’ll get caught so she’s putting herself in a lot of potential trouble for no reason other than boredom

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4 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

Oh hahaha, let’s laugh at the fact that Carly blew into town like a hurricane aiming to destroy every part of Bobbie’s life. Yeah, I’d say that was a bit of a rough patch Barbara Jean. I’m so glad these two can laugh about that.  They are both awful.

I could maybe be fine with them getting passed it and NEVER MENTIONING IT AGAIN.  But the way they make a joke out of it every time they do is pathetic.  "Oh, remember when you came to town, fucked my husband, and basically tried to ruin me?  Good times, good times!"  Kick rocks, both of you.

Also, yet another person telling Carly how great she and the Drewfus would be together.  Can they just screw already so we can proceed to the secret of Willow's maternity coming out and Drewfus getting his Dr. Phil-feelings hurt that she lied to him? 

4 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

On the opposite side of the spectrum, no surprise, Maxie.  Just terrible.

The jeans and sneakers looked cute, but that top was terrible, as was her hair.  This show dresses all the women over a size 4 just terribly. 

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3 hours ago, KittyQ said:

Nik locking Esme in the unused wing of Windermere is pretty gothic. I wonder if he'll have a weird, stern housekeeper to deliver meals to Esme while they wait for the child to be born?

Hey whatever happened to Alfred?

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I wish they would bring back Nathan Parsons back as Ethan. Now that his show on the CW is canceled, he doesn’t have anything to do (as far as I know).  Ethan could come back with Holly, reconnect with Kristina and Roby and have the four of them work to take down Victor.  Kristina reminds me a little of a very young Laura. Inject some fun. And as a bonus have Kristina have an identity crisis because she has feelings for Ethan. 

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50 minutes ago, jqdeco said:

And as a bonus have Kristina have an identity crisis because she has feelings for Ethan. 

Kristina is bisexual and had feelings for Ethan before. She wouldn't have an identity crisis as she has been quite comfortable dating both genders.

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3 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Kristina is bisexual and had feelings for Ethan before. She wouldn't have an identity crisis as she has been quite comfortable dating both genders.

I thought Kristina declared herself a lesbian.  My bad.  Even easier then to pair her up with Ethan and give her a storyline.

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7 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

I'm just really impressed that Victor has an evil jeweler on standby to create a diamond necklace with a built-in listening device in less than 24 hours.  

He's Victor Cassedine! He either has two or three that he always carries with him, or has a standing order with the jeweler, who always has one prepped and ready to go, along with some bugged Rolex watches for the men he may not trust.

Edited by rur
speeeling error
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On 10/13/2022 at 4:30 PM, Tenshinhan said:

None of this is particularly evil, in my view.  Morally questionable, perhaps, but not evil.  Sonny is a criminal, so he can be somewhat villainous.

But again, generally speaking, most of Sonny's murders are rival mobsters and criminals.

No. Hanging a guy on a meathook to steal his son is villainous. When he kidnapped Johnny, Johnny was only the son of a mobster, not an active gangster when Sonny kidnapped him. Claudia would have been cheered on if the bullet hit the intended target. Or at the very least, seen as justified in what she did. The one good writer during Emily's death even let Sonny slip in a line, if someone did to him what he ended up doing to Monica, he would kill him. 

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31 minutes ago, ciarra said:

I don't think Robert should ever take Holly back. 

I think he and Anna would make a much better end game, but I can't have nice things.

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33 minutes ago, rur said:

but I can't have nice things.

Speaking of which, now Peyton is telling Carly how wonderful she is????? What is it with the gaslighting on this show? One speech on how much Carly loves Virginia does not make up for the years and years where she either hated her or ignored her and her gravesite. 

There is no way the Carly who we met originally got an award for having a 4.0 GPA in high school.

Drew: "When I came back to Port Charles, Carly was the constant in my life." Yeah Drew, because your lips were attached to Carly's ass rather than taking care of the daughter you swore you came back for.

Today's episode was filled with people that I really don't care about: Carly, Drew, Bobbie, Cody.  Even Britt, who I usually enjoy, was all about porpping up Cody.  Even Victor didn't bring the suave villainy as he demands Valentin be loyal while holding Charlotte captive.

Anna has a photo of a corgi in a British flag frame. Is this to acknowledge the death of QEII?

Felicia: "Whatever you feel about Cody, he is Dominique's son."  Was Felicia always this naive and delusional? There is no proof right now.

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33 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Was Felicia always this naive and delusional? There is no proof right now.

Actually, yes, I think so.   I have a very clear memory of her saying that everybody working for Duke (AKA, mobsters) was a nice man.  Most notably Damon Grenville.

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The mic-ed up necklace is very soapy. I love it.

Ugh, of course Linda Purl has to cave and grovel at Carly's feet.

Shut up, Bobbie and Drew. Carly is not the victim, ever.

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

There is no way the Carly who we met originally got an award for having a 4.0 GPA in high school.

As a freshman, I buy it, but that year only. There's no way she did that again.

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Today's episode was mostly hateful, I'd say.

While I'm glad woman with southern accent acknowledged that Carly was a child out in a terrible situation in a no-win, no way out situation with that filthy man she married, I am so tired of being gaslighted like that.

There is only one character everyone must grovel to, apologize to, recognize the errors of their ways to, hold on a pedestal of awesomeness is Carly. Your speech moved me so much that I voted to stop building this road.

What in the ever loving fuck? 

This show is exhausting.

The worst part about Carly waxing on poetics about Virginia, her mother, how much she loved her, is that I was always under the impression that Carly couldn't stand her because she wouldn't/couldn't leave Frank. 

Whatever. So done with this character. No wonder Carly is the biggest narcissist ever. 

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20 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I was always under the impression that Carly couldn't stand her because she wouldn't/couldn't leave Frank. 

And made the unforgivable sin of being poor. No wonder Carly is such a grasper as an adult.

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1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

Today's episode was mostly hateful, I'd say.

While I'm glad woman with southern accent acknowledged that Carly was a child out in a terrible situation in a no-win, no way out situation with that filthy man she married, I am so tired of being gaslighted like that.

There is only one character everyone must grovel to, apologize to, recognize the errors of their ways to, hold on a pedestal of awesomeness is Carly. Your speech moved me so much that I voted to stop building this road.

What in the ever loving fuck? 

This show is exhausting.

The worst part about Carly waxing on poetics about Virginia, her mother, how much she loved her, is that I was always under the impression that Carly couldn't stand her because she wouldn't/couldn't leave Frank. 

Whatever. So done with this character. No wonder Carly is the biggest narcissist ever. 

The writing for Carly is awful.  The chemistry between her and Drew is non existent.  And, her wardrobe is awful lately.  Her wardrobe used to be much better.  This entire fakakta florida story is a must fast forward.  What a huge waste of screen time.  

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4 minutes ago, CeChase said:

The chemistry between her and Drew is non existent

There's no reason for chemistry given Drew is such an ass-kisser. When there's no conflict, it's hard to muster much energy. The writers are doing nothing to create sparks. 

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

There's no reason for chemistry given Drew is such an ass-kisser. When there's no conflict, it's hard to muster much energy. The writers are doing nothing to create sparks. 

That's true.  The writing for them is awful, no doubt about that. 

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17 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

My DVR didn't record today and I'm taking that as a sign not to bother seeking it out to watch.  Carly getting smoke blown up her ass happens on the regular, so I'm not missing much.

You should definitely take it as a sign and spare yourself. Between Carly being told how great she is and how right she is, Drew telling Bobbie that he owes Carly since she lost her hotel bc she invested in Aurora, even though his dumbass told her to stay out of it and how Carly has been the one constant in his life (Scout who?) and the Cody nonsense, the episode was both aggravating and exhausting. 

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My TIVO was not going to record either, so I could have been spared. But no, I went in to record Monday Night Football and noticed GH was not checked, so I set up a manual recording. ....Hoist by my own petard! 😞

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5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

As a freshman, I buy it, but that year only. There's no way she did that again.

If Carly ever got a 4.0 her freshman year, it's because cheating was involved. Probably bullied someone into letting her copy off their homework and tests.

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

And made the unforgivable sin of being poor. No wonder Carly is such a grasper as an adult.

I could never figure out if Carly would have preferred if Bobbie was a drug addicted prostitute who never managed to get out of that life because she was furious when she found out Bobbie had a good career with a nice house and a husband who made a lot of money. I wish the show had given Lucas a chance to express how he felt about his older sister blowing up his life twice but, no, we're stuck with Cody whose most likeable quality is being roommates with a horse.

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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