Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[YaddaYadda]

One good writer was allowed out of the closet for the past 3-4 episodes. So of course I am dreading the return to the status quo once this whole thing at Wyndemere is wrapped up.

Ava's shock at Esme being Ryan's daughter and the slow reveals that he put Esme up to destroying Ava's marriage was really well done and his reaction to her shooting him was kind of hilarious and him believing that she wouldn't shoot him against was very delusional. I'm expecting the gun to jam or something. I can't imagine that her reveal that she killed Nikolas isn't going to be held over her head.

Kevin figuring out that Heather is Esme's mother, Spencer finding out who Esme's biological parents are, like his sibling doesn't stand a chance at sanity. 

Heather's jealousy when Esme threw herself in Laura's arms and all of Esme's scenes with Ryan.

These were some really good soap days. So I'm assuming we'll go through 5 years of utter mediocrity before we can get something good like this again.

[mostlylurking]

Austin kind of scared me when his head popped up from behind the coffee table, I had forgotten he was even there, heh.

Loved Felicia yelling “Shoot her!” when Heather gave Ava the gun.

Trina and Spencer are cute.  I can’t forget old Trina’s disaster cringey kiss with Cam so for that reason I’m glad we have a new Trina.  I’m still missing the old actress though.

I thought Nika called Drew, but I didn’t hate that it was Marshall instead.

[mostlylurking]

Do we think that’s all Genie Francis’ real hair or is she wearing extensions?  I noticed today when her back was turned it goes down almost all the way to her butt!  It’s pretty flat which makes me think it’s not extensions which is pretty impressive.  As I’ve aged my hair just doesn’t grow much anymore.

Edited February 21, 2023 by mostlylurking

[dubbel zout]

LOL at Austin waking up and basically saying, "Uh, guys? I'm still here and still need some help." And even if he weren't poisoned, everyone sure took their sweet time carting him off the island.

I'm all for consent with sex, but Spencer kind of mansplaining Trina's feelings to her was a bit condescending. Leave it at the concrete floor of an art gallery isn't the most romantic or comfortable place to have sex.

Day player detective is pretty hot. He also showed more authority in arresting Heather than Jordan has in her time combined. 

Just now, mostlylurking said:

I thought Nika called Drew, but I didn’t hate that it was Marshall instead.

LOL. Obviously a new writer's mistake, heh.

"If Trina wouldn't have went and found Stella..." OMG, writers, learn grammar! Day 3 of this crap and still no one utters the initials DNA.

[CeChase]

I thought Spencer talking to Trina the way he did, was a nice callback to how angry he was at his father when he thought Nik slept with Liz.  He accused him of taking advantage of a woman who was in a very unstable place mentally.  He was right.  (just not about the sex part).  So I didn't mind that. 

[nilyank]

9 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Day player detective is pretty hot. He also showed more authority in arresting Heather than Jordan has in her time combined. 

26 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

He was also the same detective on hand when Britt was questioned after being hooked saving Joss.

He needs a name.

So I was right about the old typewriter coming into play. With Alexis confirming that Heather had access to that at Darkham, I guess that means she was the Hook since that predates her hooking Rory and Britt.

Oooh, the venom in Heather's eyes as Esme went straight to Laura for comfort.

 

[RedElf]

N'Neka has some guns on her. She looks good.

Yeah, Ryan, it was the breaking out of prison that stressed Esme, not seeing a guy skewered by a hook right in front of her eyes.

With all that's happening on Spoon Island, and the beginnings of the Sprina love story, do we really need the Marshall and Curtis crap at the same time?

Why show us Ava pulling the trigger, only to show in the preview that Ryan is ok?

 

[PatsyandEddie]

Handsome detective has a foine sounding voice too. Velvet Voice might be nice or even Barry White. 😎

[JMO]

Well, that was anticlimactic.  I truly don't understand this show.  There have been numerous plotlines dragging on endlessly, and then we finally get a nice, juicy hostage situation, involving two serial murderers, and it plays out in only two days, ending in part because one of the hostage-takers just decided she would stop holding the hostages.  There was plenty of angst to be played in Mac worrying about Felicia, and plenty of room for Anna and Valentin to find out and wonder if they should risk revealing themselves to help her.  Plenty of angst to be found in Kevin realizing that his brother has been and is a continuing danger. Plenty of reason to worry about the fate of poor Austin, who had to pop up from the floor just to remind everyone he was still there.  Each of those things, if they made it to the screen at all, lasted only a few seconds.  Instead, we have Alexis come out of nowhere to announce she knows who the Hook is, and we watch the police just calmly walk into the room on Spoon Island.  It was bad for the viewers and especially bad for the actors, who came so close to finally having some material to work with.  The only saving grace was Ava.  

[racked]

1 hour ago, nilyank said:

He was also the same detective on hand when Britt was questioned after being hooked saving Joss.

He needs a name.

So I was right about the old typewriter coming into play. With Alexis confirming that Heather had access to that at Darkham, I guess that means she was the Hook since that predates her hooking Rory and Britt.

Oooh, the venom in Heather's eyes as Esme went straight to Laura for comfort.

 

This is so dumb. The Hook never even went after Trina or Spencer. Why would Heather kill Rory? Why would she go after Ava? They do clearly didn’t plan on her being the Hook from the start (or even Esme’s mother back then when they still planned on it being Felicia) and there were way more interesting possibilities. 

[nilyank]

Just now, racked said:

This is so dumb. The Hook never even went after Trina or Spencer. Why would Heather kill Rory? Why would she go after Ava? They do clearly didn’t plan on her being the Hook from the start (or even Esme’s mother back then when they still planned on it being Felicia) and there were way more interesting possibilities. 

Going after Ava (without the poison) could have been Heather striking back at Ryan for his Ava obsession.

Rory was in the wrong place, wrong time because she was meeting with the poison guy and had not planned to kill Rory originally.

I honestly thought that it was going to be revealed that it was Ryan. Since he is missing a hand and could have used a hook to kill his victims.

[Gam2]

Ava, shoot him in the face and then in the heart. Be done with this maniac.

[One Tough Cookie]

Jordan is useless--howin the world was she appointed commissioner?

[Semiglued]

I like the idea that Heather was so disgusted by Ryan ordering his own daughter to sleep with Nikolas that she wanted him dead. But what was her plan in escaping with him? What was her end goal when she took Esme to Wyndamere? 

Ryan having been behind Esme all along, as far back as her going to boarding school with Spencer, wraps everything up in a neat little bow, but doesn’t make much sense if you look too closely. I love Ava’s hatred for him though and hope she does some real damage. 

Now that Laura and Kevin know Esme is his niece, I assume she and the baby will move in with them. No need for a custody trial with Nikolas gone. This storyline wrapped up very strangely but it’s been a fun few days. 

Also thought Trina and Spencer were surprisingly hot in their kissing scene. And I liked his not wanting to take advantage of her or have their first time together be because she wants a distraction. The show won’t bother exploring this but Spencer should have his own hang ups and insecurities about sex. The only experiences he’s had were with a con artist using him as a mark, who then slept with his dad. 

[Auntie Velvet]

On 2/18/2023 at 4:09 PM, YaddaYadda said:

I find there's a whole lot of confusion with this. She also killed Rory and left behind one of Ryan's trinkets, which the PCPD did a DNA test on (shocking, I know), and traced it back to Ryan's very first victim, which happened to also have been left on Esme's baby blanket??????????????????

Then this past week, there was dialogue that made it sound like Heather may have killed everyone.

The writers very clearly did not plan for this storyline. Also shocking but in a very bad way.

I'm so confused! And today's episode, where various people may be lying or wrong, did not help. Heather is a true chaos agent, LOL.

[sacrebleu]

I know the show is on a tight schedule, but Alexis straight up called him Ryan Chambermaid ( or maybe Chamberman) and they didn't reshoot!?!?!?

This has been soapy, ang hallelujah, almost a week without Carly. I know we're all gonna pay for it at some point, but I'm enjoying it. 

[perkie1968]

I absolutely loved the unintentional dark humour of poor Austin being completely ignored, so much so that he has to drag himself up on the side of the couch to remind them that he's still half dead.  Then Jordan lackadasically asks what happened to him in a tone that sounds like she's annoyed that he's there and bleeding on the carpet.  Mac, lackadaisically calls EMS while Heather tells them there is no rush since she didnt put venom on this hook.  Then Felicia stops off to chit chat with Alexis on the docks before ushering the paramedics off.  Geesh, people he was stabbed in the abdomen, you know, where all the important organs are.  Chop chop already.  

[nilyank]

I think Heather was always the intended Hook.

It was not people close to Trina who were being hooked. Both she and her parents were never in any danger. It was people that could have done damage/do damage to Esme who were targeted.

Ava - who pushed Esme and was Esme's target when she set her car on fire

Diane - who defended Trina and eventually pointed the guilt at Esme

Oz - had testimony that could prove that Esme bought the burner phone used in the porn revenge

Brando saved the real intended victim Joss - who did more investigating than the PCPD to find Oz and Esme connection

Poison dealer / Rory: Heather  went to get more venom and to kill both when she realize that cops found her source

Britt save the real intended victim Joss 

Ausin - was calling the cops when Heather saw him

Diane describe her attacker as a woman that she kind of recognized but didn't remember who she was. She heard jinging jewelry. 

On Rory's body they found one of Ryan's trophies which Heather stole years ago and has been holding on to all these years.

Heather has escaped many, many times from prison/mental institutions without anyone the wiser.

Finally, we saw the first victims attacked by a left-handed  Hook. Robin Mattson is left-handed but couldn't return to the show for this story because she had several surgeries including hip replacement planned around the end of last year. When the show realized they couldn't get RM, they hired Alley Mills who is right-handed. At that point, the show most likely had already filmed the first part of the Hook killings. AM doesn't show up on the show until Halloween episodes but Ava was first hooked in late August.

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by nilyank

[perkie1968]

4 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Heather's jealousy when Esme threw herself in Laura's arms

Alley Mills played that perfectly.  It was right there on her face.  

 

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Day 3 of this crap and still no one utters the initials DNA.

But it's still the same day for all of them.  Apparently the longest Valentin's day in the history of ever.  When "tomorrow" comes and they're still not asking about a DNA test, that's when it will start to be dumb.  

34 minutes ago, One Tough Cookie said:

Jordan is useless--howin the world was she appointed commissioner?

 I love how she's casually standing around the living room, texting on her phone.  Girl, you're still a cop, with a lunatic on the loose, go out there and help your men find him.  

[Kitty Redstone]

I've really enjoyed the last few days. Felicia, Mac, Laura, Kevin, Alexis, Ryan, Esme, Heather, Trina, Spencer and especially Ava. Maura West is the best.

The detective who arrested Heather was more interesting and authoritative in three sentences than Jordan has ever been.

I'm also dreading the return of Carly, Joss, Drew, Michael and Willow. The show is so much better without them.

Also, I hope this isn't the end of Alley Mills. She's been such a wonderful recast and I actually prefer her to Robin Mattson.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Kitty Redstone

[jsbt]

10 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Paint drying has nothing on Sam and Dante. However, Alexis and Greg are even more boring than being stuck in Discount Tire's waiting room and they only have 2 of the exact same Sunset magazines to read and you forgot your phone. 

Poor Gregory Harrison still looks like a founding father of these united states.

Not here in the slightest for redeemed amnesiac Esme. Learn to let good actors do what they do well in careful stints.

[ffwbe]

I think if they stick with this good version of Esme, the teen group is DOA. They were so boring before Spencer and Esme showed up. They’ve already done a 180 with Spencer and with a dead father, they can’t really play up his parental issues anymore either 

[TVbitch]

Everything else aside... I was kind of hoping for some crazy messy drunken Curtis/N'neka sex. 

Austin was like that poor guy in the "Monty Python and The Holy Grail" plague death collection cart scene: "Um... I'm not dead yet!" 

[Cheyanne11]

As a rule, I have little use for Marshall, but he gave that whiny baby son of his good advice today.  Not that I actually expect Curtis to take it.

Loved the Spencer/Trina scenes.  Actually, the entire day was, yet again, really good.  Just goes to show how poisonous the Carlys are, as the show goes down in quality when they're front and center.

[Artsda]

Ava and Ryan were great. Soapy and dramatic. 

Curtis is so full of himself, he's all about truth but it's ok for his father to play dead for 40 years. It's ok to be lying about his mob activities. 

Jordan has to be told everything about this case, what's her job? She should probably spend more time running around in Portia's life business. Alexis would make a better commissioner.

[CeChase]

I just want to chime in and 100% agree with how awesome this has been.  On fire.  It's good writing, really good acting, and things happening.  I too am not looking forward to the return of the Carlys.  God it's been amazing without Carly, Michael, Drew, and Willow.  Don't throw anything at me, but I actually like Jex.  They are no Sprina, but they don't make me want to scream when they come on.  I really don't care for Joss in her scenes with Carly (obviously) or with Sonny or Nina.  The other 4, I can't deal with ever, no matter who they are in scenes with... we are going to pay for this respite, yeah.  We are going to pay so hard. 

[ciarra]

I'm picturing a wardrobe full of hooks.  One where Heather could go and get one from her collection. 

"Hey, I know we just broke out of Spring Ridge, but I need to stop and pick up a hook.  Is there a Walmart nearby?"

[Mirabelle]

16 minutes ago, CeChase said:

I just want to chime in and 100% agree with how awesome this has been.  On fire.  It's good writing, really good acting, and things happening.  I too am not looking forward to the return of the Carlys.  God it's been amazing without Carly, Michael, Drew, and Willow.  Don't throw anything at me, but I actually like Jex.  They are no Sprina, but they don't make me want to scream when they come on.  I really don't care for Joss in her scenes with Carly (obviously) or with Sonny or Nina.  The other 4, I can't deal with ever, no matter who they are in scenes with... we are going to pay for this respite, yeah.  We are going to pay so hard. 

I am preparing myself for Mildew's wedding to literally encompass all of March. 

[Steph J]

2 hours ago, nilyank said:

I think Heather was always the intended Hook.

It was not people close to Trina who were being hooked. Both she and her parents were never in any danger. It was people that could have done damage/do damage to Esme who were targeted.

I may be misremembering, but didn't Heather not know that Esme was her daughter until after she encountered Ryan in prison?

[ffwbe]

I don’t think they even planned to bring Heather back when they started the Hook SL much less always knew it would be her. She wasn’t even supposed to be Esme’s mom originally. They were clearly setting Felicia up as the mom until RL forced them to change course. 

[nilyank]

17 minutes ago, Steph J said:

I may be misremembering, but didn't Heather not know that Esme was her daughter until after she encountered Ryan in prison?

Heather is a lying liar that lies. She was the one that supposedly gave birth and left Esme with the nuns. Heather could have easily kept track of Esme if she used her crazy skills if she was she wanted to.

She has been lying to Ryan and telling him what was most convenient to her. She could have just pretended to just find out about Esme from Ryan.

[DanaK]

30 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

I don’t think they even planned to bring Heather back when they started the Hook SL much less always knew it would be her. She wasn’t even supposed to be Esme’s mom originally. They were clearly setting Felicia up as the mom until RL forced them to change course. 

Who is RL?

[javajeanelaine]

Who is Mildew?

[tessaray]

19 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Who is RL?

I think they meant Real Life, as KW's son died tragically right before the storyline started to heat up. 

4 minutes ago, javajeanelaine said:

Who is Mildew?

Michael and Willow. A variant of Millow.

[Corvino]

Awww, shucks. I was hoping Ryan would heroically deliver Esme's baby.

[sashabear21]

I'm halfway going "Shoot him Ava! Use every bullet in the gun, then pick up some of the wood from that tree trunk and stake him in the heart just in case!" and then the other half of me is like, "Don't shoot him! He's more interesting than at least half the characters on this show!". 

How were we given the gift of this many days without the She-beast and her offspring? I mean I'm sure it'll turn out to be a gift we'll end up paying for, like 3 weeks of Willow languishing on her deathbed until she's miraculously cured by Michael's true love and they have a wedding at whatever shoddy backlot set they can have pretend to be Disneyland. Or possibly something even dumber involving those two. 

Curtis finally mustered up some emotion in his scenes with Marshall. I've seen people get more irritated at a bus running 30 seconds late than he did about a 20 year paternity lie in his scenes with Portia. 

Even though the chances were slim to none anyways, I guess this really means Joss won't get hooked. *sigh*

Nice use of veterans in this story GH! And thank you for not having Olivia figure the whole thing out with one of her visions!! 

[jsbt]

2 hours ago, ffwbe said:

They were clearly setting Felicia up as the mom until RL forced them to change course. 

That would make even less sense than Mac and Dominique having a kid, unless Ryan stole her eggs or something disgusting just like that vile mutant Charlotte.

I still think Esme being the child of two town psychos is too cartoonish. Ryan is one thing but adding Heather is a bit much, though Alley Mills is doing an excellent job. I just don't care about an amnesia heroine Esme being a going concern, so I hope that ends soon. Esme will be good in stints same as her parents, or Obrecht who for some reason will not take breaks.

[YaddaYadda]

6 hours ago, Corvino said:

Awww, shucks. I was hoping Ryan would heroically deliver Esme's baby.

I was hoping he'd do that, mainly because I was also hoping he'd steal the baby and vanish. I have no use for another baby and I don't understand what its purpose is. 

[Blackie]

8 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Everything else aside... I was kind of hoping for some crazy messy drunken Curtis/N'neka sex. 

 

I was thinking the same thing!!! Why don't they use her more, she is hot!!  She seems to go a good job running Curits' club, I nominate her for the new Police Commissioner!!

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, perkie1968 said:

17 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Day 3 of this crap and still no one utters the initials DNA.

But it's still the same day for all of them.  Apparently the longest Valentin's day in the history of ever.  When "tomorrow" comes and they're still not asking about a DNA test, that's when it will start to be dumb.  

No one knows for sure who Trina's bio dad is, though, so wouldn't a DNA test be one of the first things you'd think of? No one thinks finding out for sure wouldn't be a good idea? Curtis has been self-righteous enough I'm a bit surprised he hasn't brought it up: "I must know if I have a biological child in the world!"

12 hours ago, ffwbe said:

They’ve already done a 180 with Spencer and with a dead father, they can’t really play up his parental issues anymore either 

GH writers: "Challenge accepted!"

9 hours ago, jsbt said:

I still think Esme being the child of two town psychos is too cartoonish.

True, but it's pretty soapy, something this show desperately lacks.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I loved it when Austin popped up his head.  RoHo always brings lovely dry humor to this role, acknowledging that it wasn’t a good idea to provoke the person with the gun.

And I liked that he asked Felicia to come with him to the hospital.  I know it was to get her off screen, but he acted it simply and honestly.

I’m really enjoying this past week or so.  

WHY can’t they be this fun and soapy ALL the time?  

I’m sold on Spencer and the New Trina now.  

 

[perkie1968]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

so wouldn't a DNA test be one of the first things you'd think of?

I think number one would be "Mom lied to me" and "Portia lied and kept this secret from me for TWENTY years".  which is what's playing out in this infernally long day.  Number two would be, 'so who is the baby daddy'. which is why I'm thinking once it's no longer Valentine's day, someone will bring up the DNA test.  Taggert won't because he doesn't care if he's her bio dad or not, she'll always be his father.  Trina may not be in a hurry for the same reason that she still sees Taggert as her dad.  Portia doesn't want to know, so the only one who will bring it up is Curtis, once he climbs out of his drunken wound licking.    

[nilyank]

I am suprised that Curtis was able to stay upright considering he drank most of the amber colored liquid in that clear bottle.

[BlueberryJane23]

On 2/20/2023 at 6:47 PM, perkie1968 said:

And weird that Ava didn't say anything when Heather admitted it, like why the hell was I a victim?  It's almost like everyone involved forgot that Ava was the first one stabbed.

It also makes no sense that Heather was willing to let Ava and Felicia go when just a few months ago, she wanted Ava dead badly enough to stab her with a hook. Or was that supposed to be some kind of trick? My broadcast was interrupted for a tornado warning in central NJ. 

[Daisy]

59 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Taggert won't because he doesn't care if he's her bio dad or not, she'll always be his father.

heeh. you did a me. you mean she''ll be his daughter ;) 

but yeah and considering the preview hammered this home  - i can see him not wanting to know at all. it doesn't change anything for him

[dubbel zout]

If I were Taggert I'd want to know I was Trina's bio dad (BECAUSE HE IS) so I could continually tell Curtis to shove it when he once again oversteps boundaries. That flashback Curtis had to when Trina was living with him and Portia because of the Hooker scare got me angry all over again. Trina was basically forced to be there, and Curtis has the nerve to tell her she has to obey his rules? I mean, fundamentally he's not wrong, but he seemed to have lost all perspective of why she was there. He was just puffed up to play discipline dad. Ugh.

[RedElf]

Why isn't Curtis concerned about where his newfound daughter might be and if she's ok?

[dubbel zout]

Because HE'S IN PAIN. HE WAS LIED TO.

Sorry to get capsy, but it's all about Curtis right now and how he was done wrong. Who cares about anyone else when he's hurting?

[ffwbe]

5 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Why isn't Curtis concerned about where his newfound daughter might be and if she's ok?

Exactly. It’s impossible to root for him when all of thoughts were about himself and not Trina. 

[YaddaYadda]

5 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Why isn't Curtis concerned about where his newfound daughter might be and if she's ok?

Cuz he's a selfish me-me-me-me prick. It's all about him if any of us even had a smidgen of doubt.