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S03.E08: Finish It

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Big changes come to The Deuce as Gene sees opportunity in the city's public health crisis; Vincent looks to get out from under the mob's thumb and makes peace with Abby; Candy makes a critical choice in her relationship with Hank.

Original Air Date: October 28, 2019

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We’re done. I rolled my eyes at Franco in old makeup. All in all it was about as expected.

I guess it would have been too meta to have Vincent notice that HBO got rid of their entire “Late Night” section (yes, I’m still bitter).

Edited by MCMLXXVII
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3 minutes ago, MCMLXXVII said:

I rolled my eyes at Franco in old makeup. All in all it was about as expected.

I was worried about where they were going with that final 10 minutes when they fast forwarded to 2019.  I thought we might get something hokey like an elderly Vincent dying in Times Square while the ghosts of so many of the former denizens of the Deuce passed him by, so I was glad they didn't go there.  Though I'll admit I'm a sucker for the ending they did do, as it was nice to see all those characters one last time, as well as an aged Abby walking by.  I was also happy to see that Eileen finished her film and eventually was recognized for it.  She deserved that.       

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I'm a sucker, too. I'll admit I was cringing when it was just Franco in his bad old age makeup, but when he started walking down the street and seeing all the old familiar faces... I felt that. I think I was most excited to see Ruby again.

I also loved the song choice. Several reviews have cited it as a Blondie cover, and I wonder if it was commissioned specially for the show because I can't seem to find it anywhere else online.

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28 minutes ago, TwoBitUsherette said:

I'm a sucker, too. I'll admit I was cringing when it was just Franco in his bad old age makeup, but when he started walking down the street and seeing all the old familiar faces... I felt that. I think I was most excited to see Ruby again.

I also loved the song choice. Several reviews have cited it as a Blondie cover, and I wonder if it was commissioned specially for the show because I can't seem to find it anywhere else online.

I felt happy, but bittersweet, when they showed all those who had died. 

Apparently, "The Sidewalks of New York" is an old standard written in the late 1800s. It's been covered by a handful of contemporary entertainers. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sidewalks_of_New_York

Edited by Surrealist
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I'm a sucker too, because I thought the ending was sweet. It did kind of bother me that Vincent remembered Eileen as Candy, Dorothy as Ashley, and Lori as CC's hoe (and an unhappy one at that). Poor Lori can't even find happiness in Vincent's version of the afterlife. I would have liked to see him at least remember Eileen as she was in the '80s, but whatever.Small nitpick. Vincent looked so ill and tired, I was sure they were going to have him die in the middle of Times Square, and join all his old friends. I'm also glad they didn't go there.

Too bad we never found out what happened to Larry Brown. David Simon said the actor was unavailable, which is fine, but it would have been nice to see at least a theater pamphlet hanging around Paul's place with his name and photo on it,  or something. Even having Eileen find her actors through one of Larry's acting circles would have been a nice mention. He was one of the ones I was really looking forward to catching up with this season.

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What do you think of Eileen's pressuring her actors to perform real sex? It made me think badly of her for the first time. The red-headed actress really didn't want to.  The actors ended up doing it, and the footage wasn't even used.

Also, I hated that she fell back to her default state. I didn't blame her boyfriend for asking her not to do it. Those asshole producers threw every perverted thing at her and she actually did it!   She may have had the lowest self esteem of all.

What was going on with Paul, why did he have a limp all of a sudden? 

The ending made me tear up a bit.

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Sucker here, too, I also liked it, and teared up. Oddly, sort of, it was when old Vincent saw Mike that made me outright cry. I'd have thought it would have been Lori that got to me, but I guess I got that emotion last week. (I was also a little disappointed that we got no reactions about Lori's death, but time marches on). Poor Mike. His choice to die alone, but it seemed such a lonely, terrible way to go out.

I assumed Paul's limp and cane had to do with HIV taking its toll on him.

I know we're supposed to think Hank is a jerk--I mean, the whole Lehman Bros thing--and he knew what he was getting into dating an 'erotica' filmmaker, I assume, but I couldn't really blame him for being upset that Eileen was actually going to go back to do porn, especially when you hear her rattle off all she's expected to do for the film. I kind of hated that she agreed to it. And yeah, it was a little disconcerting to listen to her coaxing her novice stars to go ahead and have sex on film when they were feeling so hesitant.

The wedding was lovely.

Altogether, a nice, bittersweet little send off to this show.

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31 minutes ago, peridot said:

Also, I hated that she fell back to her default state. I didn't blame her boyfriend for asking her not to do it. Those asshole producers threw every perverted thing at her and she actually did it!  

It wasn't anything Candy hadn't done in Times Sq for $20 bucks.  That was the whole point.  After making films and getting a boyfriend Candy, like many people, had a price.

31 minutes ago, peridot said:

What was going on with Paul, why did he have a limp all of a sudden? 

AIDS was ravaging his body.

Question for Wire fans:  Black Frankie said he was going to Baltimore to see his cousin Nathan.  Does that name ring a bell?

Edited by sugarbaker design
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36 minutes ago, peridot said:

What was going on with Paul, why did he have a limp all of a sudden?

It was to confirm that he had HIV after all. He never had gotten tested and didn't know for sure, so neither did the audience. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't show the cane until he walked down the street. I am glad we never had to see Paul deteriorate.

I loved the ending. It reminded me of one of the all-time great HBO series endings in "Six Feet Under" (also with sketchy old-age makeup, but it worked!) 

I'm not sure Vince was thinking of these characters in the afterlife, necessarily, but more that he was imagining the people he used to know still being around. I'm sure he wouldn't want Lori stuck with CC for eternity. 

Did anyone freeze frame the newspaper article? When Eileen died, she didn't have anyone else in her life that merited inclusion. Her son was mentioned and her deceased parents and brother, but that was it. The article didn't even mention Harvey as a long-time work partner. Also, she was apparently born in 1946 (73 in 2019) so she was about 26 in season 1 and about 39 in this past season. (Yes, I'm a dork who finds these details interesting!)

Edited by Moxie Cat
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2 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Did anyone freeze frame the newspaper article? When Eileen died, she didn't have anyone else in her life that merited inclusion. Her son was mentioned and her deceased parents and brother, but that was it. The article didn't even mention Harvey as a long-time work partner. Also, she was apparently born in 1946 (73 in 2019) so she was about 26 in season 1 and about 39 in this past season. (Yes, I'm a dork who finds these details interesting!)

I did the freeze frame as well.  I was surprised she was supposed to be 25/26 in the first season.  I get that Eileen probably would have been aged somewhat by her street work, but from what I recall, she looked like someone who was more mid to late 30s (which was close to Maggie Gyllenhaal's actual age) during the first season.  

9 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

I'm not sure Vince was thinking of these characters in the afterlife, necessarily, but more that he was imagining the people he used to know still being around. I'm sure he wouldn't want Lori stuck with CC for eternity. 

I thought this as well.  He was seeing ghosts of the past, not imagining that Dorothy's afterlife involved her getting arrested for solicitation. 

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28 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Did anyone freeze frame the newspaper article? When Eileen died, she didn't have anyone else in her life that merited inclusion. Her son was mentioned and her deceased parents and brother, but that was it. The article didn't even mention Harvey as a long-time work partner. Also, she was apparently born in 1946 (73 in 2019) so she was about 26 in season 1 and about 39 in this past season. (Yes, I'm a dork who finds these details interesting!)

Eileen/Candy was a free spirit, she wasn't a square. She broke rules, she didn't live by them.  I would've been disappointed if she had married and had 2.5 children.

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15 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I would've been disappointed if she had married and had 2.5 children.

Me too - but following the breakup with her boyfriend and (another) fight with Harvey (although she did later listen to him), I was just sad to think that she was alone for the next 30 years, and that was why no one else was mentioned in the article/obit. I can fanwank that she had a wide circle of friends and lovers!

Actually, Eileen being 26 in the first season works with the age of her son. He was supposed to be 6 or 7, right, early elementary school then? I can believe that she got pregnant with him shortly after high school (or even in HS) and that was why her parents were so involved with his care.

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4 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Me too - but following the breakup with her boyfriend and (another) fight with Harvey (although she did later listen to him), I was just sad to think that she was alone for the next 30 years, and that was why no one else was mentioned in the article/obit. I can fanwank that she had a wide circle of friends and lovers!

From a life-long singleton, single does not equal alone.

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2 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't show the cane until he walked down the street.

You can see the cane hanging from his table in the bar, but that's easy to miss. Poor Paul, I was hoping he'd survive the '80s but apparently not. 

Some may disagree, but IMO this show ran for exactly as long as it needed to,and how many TV series can claim that? 

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2 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Question for Wire fans:  Black Frankie said he was going to Baltimore to see his cousin Nathan.  Does that name ring a bell?

I wondered this too because a) this is a Simon show, so there's both The Wire connection and the fact that Simon drops these subtleties into his shows all the time, and b) he said he was going to West Baltimore specifically, which was where The Wire was set. Could be a reference to Nathan Barksdale. 

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3 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Question for Wire fans:  Black Frankie said he was going to Baltimore to see his cousin Nathan.  Does that name ring a bell?

I came here to mention Nathan Barksdale, but got beaten to it.

But on the subject of the Wire: I was always disappointed that the Hi-Hat didn’t serve any of that pepper steak.

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2 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Me too - but following the breakup with her boyfriend and (another) fight with Harvey (although she did later listen to him), I was just sad to think that she was alone for the next 30 years, and that was why no one else was mentioned in the article/obit. I can fanwank that she had a wide circle of friends and lovers!

I would say that there's no reason to think she was alone.   In the intervening 34 years (between 1985 and her death), she easily could have had any number of long term and/or short term relationships.  Also, close friends are typically not mentioned in an obit as having survived the decedent.  

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Actually, Eileen being 26 in the first season works with the age of her son. He was supposed to be 6 or 7, right, early elementary school then? I can believe that she got pregnant with him shortly after high school (or even in HS) and that was why her parents were so involved with his care.

I think it makes sense for the character.  My main issue was more that Maggie Gyllenhaal looks her age, so the character looked much older than 26 during the first season. 

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I loved the ending. And I know the song "Sidewalks of NY" because I am old. And because I am old, I know how it feels to have so many friends die and the years pass and most of them are gone.

I was sad to see Eileen died. The entire ending made me cry. 

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3 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

From a life-long singleton, single does not equal alone.

Nor did I say she was. I said that the obit didn't mention anyone else, and that made me sad. We did not leave Eileen on a good note - she had broken up with a decent boyfriend and had a fight with Harvey. No business partners or long-term romantic partners were mentioned in the obit. And I said that in my head, I chose to believe she had friends and lovers.

But Eileen COULD have been single and alone. I know plenty of single women who do not have amazing lives with a fab set of friends and relatives and activities, but rather normal, average ones. Single does not equal alone. But it can. All we know in this case is what is in the obit.

42 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I would say that there's no reason to think she was alone.   In the intervening 34 years (between 1985 and her death), she easily could have had any number of long term and/or short term relationships.  Also, close friends are typically not mentioned in an obit as having survived the decedent.

Thank you for stating that more accurately than I did. 🙂

Edited by Moxie Cat · Reason: Because I seem to be explaining myself badly.
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4 hours ago, peridot said:

What do you think of Eileen's pressuring her actors to perform real sex? It made me think badly of her for the first time. The red-headed actress really didn't want to.  The actors ended up doing it, and the footage wasn't even used.

This solidified my dislike for the character. Between the finale & last week's conversation with Lori, Eileen has become a more refined pimp.

I did not object to the idea of the flash-forward (and to me it captured how TS turned into a different kind of ugly), it just lost a lot of impact for me that it was seen through Vincent's eyes with Abby in the final shot.

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I can't believe Eileen's boyfriend turned out to be true blue. Until he finally drew the line in the sand, anyway. The joke's on him though if he did go to Lehman Bros. 🎶He coulda had a bad bitch...🎶

It was nice to see all the old faces again when Vince was doing his final stroll tnrough today's Time Square. Point taken from above though that he only remembered the women as prostitutes.

David Simon is a genius. I loved this show.

And I especially loved this end credits music:

Edited by Joimiaroxeu · Reason: prepositions, how do they work?
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Oh man, I never caught the aged Abby. Now I'm going to have to watch again (small sacrifice). 

I pretty much called the ending with Mike. When Vince went to see him last episode, and said, "I'll be back in a month," I thought, "He's going to be dead already, and who knows for how long." That was depressing, finding him like that. I also teared up when they showed healthy Mike at the end. 

The wedding was sweet. I was also disappointed that they didn't at least acknowledge Lori's death, whether it be in a newspaper article, or someone calling Eileen when her credit card was found in the hotel room. 

I wonder what became of Harvey. I understand that Vincent wouldn't have seen his image on the street, because he was not part of that story. He was Eileen/Candy's memory.

Also powerful was the fact that gentrification can "clean up" the more criminal element of a neighborhood, but the activities just pop up somewhere else. 

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13 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

The wedding was sweet. I was also disappointed that they didn't at least acknowledge Lori's death, whether it be in a newspaper article, or someone calling Eileen when her credit card was found in the hotel room. 

I'll say the small acknowledgment of Lori's death was Eileen backing off from trying to pressure her actors into doing the sex scene.  I think in that moment, we saw Lori's death having an effect on her and steering her away from a course of action where she tried to make the actors do something they did not want to do. 

As a side note, was there some reason Bernice was permanently relegated to stand behind the bar in the parlor this season?  You'd almost think she had no bottom half. 

Also, does old Vince look away from unhappy Ghost Lori because he still feels guilt about her life and death? 

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Does anyone know if 2019 Vincent’s hotel room was in that Time Square Marriott that caused so much drama? Heh. Never really noticed it with all the other bells and whistles in the area, just that it’s super expensive for The  New Year’s Eve ball drop.

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3 minutes ago, MCMLXXVII said:

Does anyone know if 2019 Vincent’s hotel room was in that Time Square Marriott that caused so much drama? Heh. Never really noticed it with all the other bells and whistles in the area, just that it’s super expensive for The  New Year’s Eve ball drop.

I'm guessing it probably was, it dovetails nicely with the opening shot of the season with he and Abby looking up at it.

The 2019 scene was a decent epilogue, but I had kind of wished it just ended with Paul walking away with his limp, a perfect analogy for the period of New York covered by The Deuce. The ending felt quite put upon, but I enjoyed it as a stand alone. And to be fair, it works nicely with the scene of Vincent noticing how empty Leon's has become.

It was very good to see all the old faces one last time, as was the case for Vincent I think. If I read into it all the faces he sees were dead. The paper confirms Eileen, Bobby confirms himself, I think we can safely assume Paul succumed to HIV, and Detective Ralph Macchio likely drank himself to death, or died while "cleaning his service piece" during his time at the academy, and Leon was pretty up there in age and looking slow during the last diner scene

That leaves Joey, who we know is getting married (for the third time), Abby (who we see), and Alston (who we don't) for the folks Vincent regularly interacted with. I like to think Alston is retired and happy. Abby also looks exceptional for what would be approximately 60.

That last one makes me wonder why they fast forwarded all the way to 2019. You could have gone to 2012, not changed much about the setting, and still had Abby a spritely early 50s.

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I wondered this too because a) this is a Simon show, so there's both The Wire connection and the fact that Simon drops these subtleties into his shows all the time, and b) he said he was going to West Baltimore specifically, which was where The Wire was set. Could be a reference to Nathan Barksdale. 

Yup, I had to look this up afterward myself. I guess Nathan was, according to Simon, the loose inspiration for Avon. Nathan felt it was a little more than loose. I'm sure this is Simon poking the bear a bit.

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19 minutes ago, Traveller519 said:

Bobby confirms himself

I laughed today when I realized that Bobby was the only person in Vincent's vision whom we didn't already know or assume was dead - aside from minor characters like Ralph Macchio and Officer "Flanaga," or Tommy, whose path seemed obvious - and yet no one cares! I guess we all just assumed Bobby wouldn't make it to 2019. He looked so much better without the rug though.

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2 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

That leaves Joey, who we know is getting married (for the third time), Abby (who we see), and Alston (who we don't) for the folks Vincent regularly interacted with. I like to think Alston is retired and happy. Abby also looks exceptional for what would be approximately 60.

That last one makes me wonder why they fast forwarded all the way to 2019. You could have gone to 2012, not changed much about the setting, and still had Abby a spritely early 50s.

Thanks for that.  I know from an interview with Simon that that ending was planned from day 1, but I found it unnecessarily jarring to flash forward almost 35 years to 2019, when of course most of the characters would be dead already.  In my view if they wanted to do a flash forward type of epilogue, I would think that moving in time 10-15 years to the mid-90's or 2000 would have accomplished the same in showing the complete death of the Deuce and the resurrection of Times Square into an urban Disneyland, while allowing the opportunity to show a number of "where are they now" vignettes with characters who are were likely still alive in that time frame.

Regarding Abby's age, if she dropped out of college in 1971, I presume she had to be at least 18-19 at that point in time, meaning in 2019 she had to be at least 66 years old.  Meanwhile, I had Vincent pegged for about 30ish when the series began (no good documentation to support that but he was already divorced with two young kids) so I actually would like to think that Abby was a little bit older than 18 when she hooked up with Vincent.  Anyway, that would make him 78 in the closing segment, which is certainly possible, but he definitely had to be over 70 in that scene.

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37 minutes ago, sd dude said:

he was already divorced with two young kids

Anyone know why we never saw Vince's kids again? Has Simon ever addressed this? Even when he and his ex hung out, they never talked about the two boys. I always wondered what happened to them. We saw plenty (more than enough) of Bobby's kid!

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15 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Even when he and his ex hung out, they never talked about the two boys. I always wondered what happened to them.

When Vincent and his ex hung out this season, I believe she mentioned that the kids were grown and out of the house. 

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5 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I loved the ending. And I know the song "Sidewalks of NY" because I am old. And because I am old, I know how it feels to have so many friends die and the years pass and most of them are gone.

I was sad to see Eileen died. The entire ending made me cry. 

I'm so old, I remember when "Sidewalks of New York" was the song they played right before the running of the Belmont Stakes instead of "New York, New York."  

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8 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

I loved the ending. It reminded me of one of the all-time great HBO series endings in "Six Feet Under" (also with sketchy old-age makeup, but it worked!) 

That ending was the best ever (other than maybe Newhart).

I posted last week that The Deuce was killing off each of the characters, one by one, in a sad way as compared to Six Feet Under.

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3 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

 Abby also looks exceptional for what would be approximately 60.

What do you guys think people in their 60s look like?  She looked just fine to me.  You only got a 1 second glance at her.  Her hair looked a little grayer.

Do you think it was exceptional that she wasn't over weight or that she was able to walk briskly down the street?  I'm 63 and I just hauled the food drive barrels all over a 2 story building.  And nobody thought I looked so decrepit that they needed to help.

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I enjoyed the ending and thought it was fitting for the series.

I was mostly surprised that Abby became a corporate lawyer in the end. At least she looked corporate. I guess it was only a matter of time before she came back home to her upperclass roots.

Not only was it bittersweet to see everyone on the death stroll, but I also interpreted the walk as a "I remember when this place used to be xyz." As a native New Yorker born in the mid-80s, I remember Times Square in transition, not when it was super seedy. I'm sure there are still pockets of seediness, but they're Easter eggs at this point. It isn't as covert as they used to be. So I can only imagine living through the Deuce of the 70s/80s and walking through it now.

I wonder if Alston would've liked this Times Square, or if he would've thought that the pendulum swung too far.

Edited by Sheenieb
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It was smaltzy but I cried like a baby. Something just so sad about him walking down the street and seeing all those that were gone but seeing them when they were still young.
I just loved this series and as much as I would have liked to follow these people around for two or three more seasons, keeping it a tight three seasons was just right. Such tragic ends for most of them, and to see the 2019 NY with its gaudy neon and throngs of tourists made me nostalgic for the 70’s version and I’ve never even been there. Well done HBO.

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4 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

I was mostly surprised that Abby became a corporate lawyer in the end. At least she looked corporate. I guess it was only a matter of time before she came back home to her upperclass roots.

Abby was always pragmatic. I imagine that after Paul died and she saw the Deuce she knew continue to disappear, she saw the writing on the wall and did what she had to do to stay in NYC.  A lesser show would have had her and Vince run into each other and share a glance. I'm glad they missed each other.

As much as I wish we'd gotten another season or two, I agree that the show ended at just the right time. I also think the show did an excellent job of determining which characters would realistically make out of the '80s and which would still be alive in the present day. That being said, I am surprised that Eileen's son outlived her, because he seemed like he was going nowhere really fast.

I'm really going to miss this show.

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23 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Though I'll admit I'm a sucker for the ending they did do, as it was nice to see all those characters one last time, as well as an aged Abby walking by.  I was also happy to see that Eileen finished her film and eventually was recognized for it.  She deserved that.

For a Simon et al., show this was positively a happy ending. I found it very interesting that the scene of old Vincent in the bar was actually the first scene of the show. I would have liked to know what he was doing in Florida. I did like the scene though; about the regulated pour. I've lived in places like that, but I don't now. I get the pour.

I eyerolled quite hard at Abby going to 'talk to the Dean' after 50 million years about 'getting her credits' or whatever. Ok, white girl. Not that she couldn't go back to college and eventually become a lawyer, but that was patently absurd.

I am disappointed that all we got from Eileen was a newspaper column. Again though, that's a positively crowning ending for these TPTBs. I was hoping she'd maybe be more of an influence on other filmmakers or something more about her and Harvey.

Vincent going to the cabin. I knew what was there. I think we all did.

So I only finally got around to the show a few months ago - I had no idea Vincent and Abby were real people. I didn't know that the wedding was also based on a real life event either. So many actual people to get handed this life. It's really not fair.

8 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

Detective Ralph Macchio [sic] likely drank himself to death, or died while "cleaning his service piece" during his time at the academy,

Given these TPTBs, I think he's still alive and well and has failed highly upward.

I didn't really hear what Abby was saying on the phone besides 'my client', so I didn't get where you all were calling her a corporate lawyer. That's kind of the real tragedy.

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45 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Given these TPTBs, I think he's still alive and well and has failed highly upward.

Everyone Vince saw was dead.

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I am clearly a massive sap, because I full on teared up seeing Vincent's walk down memory lane, contrasting the bright touristy Times Square of today with the grimy Deuce days, and seeing so many old faces. I especially lost it when he was saw 70s era Paul and his boyfriend and he clapped his shoulder, looking happy and healthy, especially after seeing Paul starting to deteriorate due to AIDS in his last scene. I dont think it was supposed to be seeing literal ghosts, I think it was a memory, of a time, place, and people that are all long done. Plus, we glimpse future Abbey, having become what looks like some kind of corporate lawyer now, who maybe sometimes reminisces about her wild days in the 70s/80s at cocktail parties in high rises. 

I would have watched another season or two, but I think this was a good place to end the show. At this point, most everyone is dead or on their way anyway, and the world they lived in was almost dead, and the sex industry would be almost unrecognizable by the 90s. This was just the right time to wrap things up. I did wish that we knew a bit about what happened to a few other characters, like Harvey and Larry, but I guess I cant get everything I want. I did get Eileen getting some vindication at long last, getting her movie in the Criterion Collection, and that great song at the end, which I had never heard before but loved. So thats a pretty good ending for me, silly old man make-up and all. 

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15 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

I wonder if Alston would've liked this Times Square, or if he would've thought that the pendulum swung too far.

Allston was so jaded and burnt out by the end. I think you can deduce how he would have felt about current Times Square in his car scene with Gene. He would have thought clean Times Square was just fine, but he would have known that all the dirt had just moved elsewhere. He was at the "you can't win no matter what you do" phase of his career.

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I know I can depend on HBO to provide a crap final episode. For a series that delivered gritty reality it sure went ofc to never never land at the end.

Couldn’t they have fit in a dragon or something?

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I thought the show ended kind of upbruptly, but I, too, got choked up at the end. I am a complete sucker for a montage and David Simon is damn good at them.  I saw this Love Letter to NY/Old Times Square as a kind of bookend to his Love Letter to Baltimore from the wire. Which I still can't watch without absolutely losing it.  I also really appreciated the sound of the GoT theme in there too, very cheeky of Simon.

On 10/29/2019 at 8:45 AM, peridot said:

What do you think of Eileen's pressuring her actors to perform real sex? It made me think badly of her for the first time. The red-headed actress really didn't want to.  The actors ended up doing it, and the footage wasn't even used.

I'm of two minds about it.  On the one hand, she knew that the actress didn't want to do it and had them do it anyway, but on the other hand, they actors were apparently told what it would involve ahead of time and what kind of film it was going to be.  She was frustrated, but she didn't threaten them or verbally abuse them and she gave them extra time to take a walk and think about it.  In the end they ended up in a Criterion Classic movie without having a sex scene on video for all of eternity.  (I assume that was the film the article was referencing.)

I actually loved the reunion of Vince and Frankie and laughed when Frankie told him that he looked like shit.  That scene and the wedding were my favorite parts.

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On 10/29/2019 at 1:17 PM, MCMLXXVII said:

Does anyone know if 2019 Vincent’s hotel room was in that Time Square Marriott that caused so much drama? Heh. Never really noticed it with all the other bells and whistles in the area, just that it’s super expensive for The  New Year’s Eve ball drop.

I'm like, 98% sure it was the Westin on 43rd street. The escalators were an exact match.

Maybe they couldn't get cleared to film at the Marriott? Or perhaps were looking for a hotel that felt a little more intimate? If memory serves, the Marriott lobby is kind of massive.

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On 10/29/2019 at 1:24 PM, chick binewski said:

This solidified my dislike for the character. Between the finale & last week's conversation with Lori, Eileen has become a more refined pimp.

I did not object to the idea of the flash-forward (and to me it captured how TS turned into a different kind of ugly), it just lost a lot of impact for me that it was seen through Vincent's eyes with Abby in the final shot.

Times Square might be ugly today but you can walk anywhere night and day as safe as anywhere else.  

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On 10/29/2019 at 12:11 PM, Empress1 said:

I wondered this too because a) this is a Simon show, so there's both The Wire connection and the fact that Simon drops these subtleties into his shows all the time, and b) he said he was going to West Baltimore specifically, which was where The Wire was set. Could be a reference to Nathan Barksdale. 

You got it. Frankie said his cousin Nathan lives on Lexington Terrace Park which is where Nathan Barksdale lives.  

I wish they had Frankie explain how he knew how to open up the throat using a knife and pen to help with breathing.  

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I didn't think the sentimental ending fit the tone of the series. Maybe if a stronger actor than James Franco played the part it would have worked? To me he looked like he was on SNL with the old man makeup.

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