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S01.E04: No Outlet


ohjoy
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After learning more about Piper’s origins, Jo struggles with the decision to shelter her. Benny enlists a friend to hack Kindred’s secret files, and Chris clashes with a headstrong informant he’s assigned to protect.

Original air date: October 15, 2019

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Oh wow. April the hacker (Ashlie Atkinson IRL) just appeared this week as the evil taxidermist on Mr Robot. 
On Emergence, however, she appears to me to be the least shifty character. 
(especially after Piper’s somewhat creepy little smile)

***********

[Benny (Owain Yeoman) to Jo]: What is this place?

Me: Pleasantville. 
No. Wait a minute.  What was the name of the neighborhood where The Exorcist took place?

Edited by shapeshifter
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Thought this episode was really engrossing and a return to form after last week, and that it did a much better job of blending the genre elements (and the show has quickly gone full genre) with the family material that is its real strength. We all knew that Jo was going to end up loving and wanting to keep Piper, so in that sense the big takeaway of this ep was not surprising, but I appreciate that the show took the time to show Jo being uncomfortable around--and afraid of, despite her claims otherwise--Piper. That's only realistic, and it also makes her decision to keep Piper that much more meaningful. I'm not a fan of Piper being full synthetic though--not that I'm not already suspending disbelief but cyborg feels much more realistic for speculative fiction set in the present. But they clearly want to lean into the AI/what is consciousness/"what is real?" angle. Speaking of things that are or are not real, that abandoned faux town was freaky as fuck. No wonder Piper ended up messed up--who wouldn't be if you had to live there?!

Mia and Piper seriously have the cutest bond and Alex is the world's best ex-husband. I love Mia's "Dad doesn't live with us anymore but he's still part of the family"--that was a great way of putting it and the family unit is strong with this clan. This show just soars when it leans into the found family material. Also I am vaguely shipping Emily and Chris as an outgrowth...apparently Emily needs some love! But seriously, I thought those scenes were effective as a C-plot that really underlined the themes of the A- and B-plot. Emily feels like she's living on borrowed time to me though, sigh.

OTOH, the annoying British reporter can go any time now. He's not bringing much to the show--the character is just SUCH a cliche and the actor isn't doing much to elevate the material. And tbh I really don't know that the reporter has done much of anything that Jo couldn't have done herself. I actually wonder if the character was a network mandate because he feels so tonally off from the rest of the show. Sidebar, I hope the hacker lady didn't get killed right at the end of the episode, she was cool, and I love this show's commitment to inclusiveness.

Jo's showdown with Evil Guy was a really great scene. The actors both totally brought it and I just loved Jo's Marge Gundersoning/backbone of steeling/telling him to shove it when necessary. I've never seen Allison Tolman in anything before but she is a gem.

So the cliffhanger for the end of this season is TOTALLY going to be someone telling Piper she's an AI and it DOESN'T kill her, right? Which will make us question even more what is consciousness/what is real?

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I was kind of surprised that Jo's father said that he only moved into that house a couple of years ago, I would have sworn that was the house that Jo grew up in. Was this the house that Jo and her husband lived in before the divorce?

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That was a pretty good episode -- we learned a lot about Piper, the creepy town, and more back story on Emily.

I liked how Mia tracked down 'runaway' Piper, and then took her someplace safe.

Could have done without the scream scene about the turtle on the road -- that just felt out of place.  Smelled of network executive interference.

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9 hours ago, stealinghome said:

We all knew that Jo was going to end up loving and wanting to keep Piper, so in that sense the big takeaway of this ep was not surprising, but I appreciate that the show took the time to show Jo being uncomfortable around--and afraid of, despite her claims otherwise--Piper. That's only realistic, and it also makes her decision to keep Piper that much more meaningful.

Mostly agree with this, though it seemed to me that Jo's turnaround from shock learning about what Piper is and then her realistic discomfort and fear was a little too quick. And the catalyst for the turnaround being Piper's reaction to a turtle in the road did not seem sufficient to immediately make Jo return to protective, affectionate "mom." But I'm willing to go with this because the writers obviously needed to move the plot along.

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9 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Speaking of things that are or are not real, that abandoned faux town was freaky as fuck. No wonder Piper ended up messed up--who wouldn't be if you had to live there?!

The town has several homes so I immediately began to wonder how many other "Pipers" exist. Surely, there were other kids with parents just judging by the bike in the street. Did they all revolt at the same time? 

I don't know that I like the idea of Piper possibly being manipulative and more self-aware than she lets on, but that little smile at the end certainly makes this a possibility.  

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The abandoned town smelled like 'Wandering Pines' (stinky), and really, is there anyplace in the first world that isn't on Google Earth? I couldn't figure out if they built this place as a training camp for Piper to learn how to be a human kid, or if it was sort of a 'company town', lived in by all the workers who were tinkering with Piper's innards (so to speak). Also, that old 2 lane road looked like an old 2 lane road to me- not sure why Alison immediately declared it was a 'runway'.

How did the tech company not know how powerful/violent Piper was? Why didn't they have her in a bunker or something until they figured out how to control her, assuming that's even possible.

I'm pretty cynical, but I totally bought that Li'l Miss Robot noticing and protecting the turtle could convince Alison of Piper's basic decency. (whispers: of course Hitler loved dogs)

I love pretty much everything about this show, including what everyone is wearing and how the house is decorated. One thing I don't like is the reporter-why does he have to be British?-and hope he got killed in that ambush. Tech lady can stay, though.

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3 hours ago, laprin said:

The town has several homes so I immediately began to wonder how many other "Pipers" exist. Surely, there were other kids with parents just judging by the bike in the street. Did they all revolt at the same time? 

I don't know that I like the idea of Piper possibly being manipulative and more self-aware than she lets on, but that little smile at the end certainly makes this a possibility.  

It gave me a Truman Show vibe. As in they required everyone who worked for the AI company to move there and arrange their lives around the “prototype “ a/k/a Piper.

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4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Could have done without the scream scene about the turtle on the road -- that just felt out of place.  Smelled of network executive interference.

That was so way OTT. The same thing happened to me when I was riding with a friend. I just said, "Oh, stop, there's a turtle," and she stopped, I got out and moved the turtle off the road. No big drama. I didn't get why the show had to make it like Piper was stopping the car from exploding or something.

I missed last week's show so only found out Piper is AI from reading here. ABC wouldn't let me watch the ep online. I'm not sure I'm all in with the half robot/half human thing. But I'll give it time.

I knew Jo publishing that story about Piper being orphaned would bring in the real Family Services. Good luck doing that background check on Piper, lady.

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1 hour ago, sempervivum said:

The abandoned town smelled like 'Wandering Pines' (stinky), and really, is there anyplace in the first world that isn't on Google Earth?

I said the exact same thing when Jo and the reporter were driving down the street looking at the abandoned homes...lol

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1 hour ago, sempervivum said:

The abandoned town smelled like 'Wandering Pines' (stinky), and really, is there anyplace in the first world that isn't on Google Earth? I couldn't figure out if they built this place as a training camp for Piper to learn how to be a human kid, or if it was sort of a 'company town', lived in by all the workers who were tinkering with Piper's innards (so to speak). Also, that old 2 lane road looked like an old 2 lane road to me- not sure why Alison immediately declared it was a 'runway'.

Yeah, that runway was def a road, but I guess the show doesn't have the budget to CGI it into anything else. And the company town ... who was living in all the other houses? And Jo and partner just parking it in some old lawn chairs in the town square was all sorts of creepy. Like they were sure NO ONE was there watching them?

And yeah, no Google Earth. But phone reception?

I got a kick out of the woman hacker's Goth daughter being all, well, Goth. Nice touch. I hope the lady lives to hack another day. Her character is another golden one.

Terry Quinn rocks. And he got to eat two bowls of noodles.

Piper's creepy smile at the end gave me a look forward to how she will be as a sulky teen who doesn't want to do what mom tells her to. Like that little boy on Twilight Zone who keeps his entire family captive to his whims, because he can.

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2 hours ago, sempervivum said:

One thing I don't like is the reporter-why does he have to be British?

Because the actor is Welsh. I think they just let him use his real accent for once.

I hope the computer lady lived. I loved her.

Kindred is hot.

Emily is totally AI herself.

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15 minutes ago, Paloma said:

She may be a coding nerd, but I don't think she could be AI--she is too imperfect and neurotic.

I think that's the issue. She's neurotic about building things because it's what she was built to do. She talked about "disappearing into the code." Yeah, because that's literally what happens.

But like Piper (and probably others) they made her too human, and she learned too much. She's trying to escape her world.

Or that's my theory anyway. We'll see! 🙂

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19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Oh wow. April the hacker (Ashlie Atkinson IRL) just appeared this week as the evil taxidermist on Mr Robot. 

I knew I'd just seen that actress somewhere.

Speaking of Mr Robot, Emily gave me vibes of an older, wiser Darlene, from Mr Robot.

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20 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Oh wow. April the hacker (Ashlie Atkinson IRL) just appeared this week as the evil taxidermist on Mr Robot. 
On Emergence, however, she appears to me to be the least shifty character. 
 

Ok! I was thinking that she was a bad guy, because I just watched Mr R a day or two before this. I was confused! I don't believe that I ever saw that actor before, and now she's in two shows that I watch 

That runway really is a runway. They are filming this in NJ. Allison Tolman posts a bit about this show on Instagram and said that it was real, no CGI!

 I am really enjoying this show. I am so happy that they don't have a 'crime of the week' interlaced with all of this,  just pure mystery/scifi.

Edited by OoogleEyes
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I agree this was more consistent than last week's episode.  I'm guessing they had a mandate to get all the show basics out within a certain number of episodes to keep people engaged.  I'm glad they are making story progress, but I would be okay with it if they throttled back a little to reestablish the mystery and tension.  I'm still engaged by the characters.

I was interested in the short lived theory of cyborg Piper, and am not as sold on replicant Piper.  Part of my hesitance is that I'm not sure how they will handle the science and tech parts of her history.  There were some tech related things in this episode that took some noticeable handwaving.

I'm picturing a cryo chamber somewhere filled with Piper's brothers and sisters.

I thought the fact that Pipe was nervous and tried to run a way would be what tipped the scales in her favor as a real girl.  It was a sweet little aside that while all the drama is happening she has kid impulses, and packed dinosaurs in her runaway bag.  (I should note that I yelled about plenty of squirrels in the road when I was a kid.)

9 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I got a kick out of the woman hacker's Goth daughter being all, well, Goth. Nice touch. I hope the lady lives to hack another day.

I thought that was a great fake out reference to the hacker Lisbeth from The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, only to find out it's her mother that's the hacker.  I agree, I hope she lives on to be a recurring character.

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6 hours ago, OoogleEyes said:

I am really enjoying this show. I am so happy that they don't have a 'crime of the week' interlaced with all of this,  just pure mystery/scifi.

We might have a "crime of the week" if Jo ever went to work! I guess it is good to be the boss.

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On 10/15/2019 at 8:18 PM, stealinghome said:

So the cliffhanger for the end of this season is TOTALLY going to be someone telling Piper she's an AI and it DOESN'T kill her, right? Which will make us question even more what is consciousness/what is real?

So, we're going with "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" or in modern terms, "Blade Runner".  I vote let Piper find out on her own, if ever.  Let the little girl have her dream family. Keep them all together and hopefully, Emily can stay alive.

I can't see them killing Owain Yeoman (the reporter) Rigsby is probably their most well known cast member after Terry O'Quinn, who always plays a weirdo and maybe Clancy Brown, another weirdo.

The "Robot Town" wasn't creepy to me. It was just an empty town.  It would have been creepy if they had a bunch of blanks walking around and pretending to be real people. 

The hard part for me is that logically, the people who are telling the sheriff to give up the kid are right.  Piper, despite looking like a harmless little kid can totally wreck her family if she were to get pissed at them. However, we all know "love" will persevere, and Piper will never harm them, or so we hope.

Edited by Jacks-Son
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Emergence promo: Who or what is this mystery child???

Literally four episodes in: She's a robot. (So is she part-synthetic or--) ROBOT.

...If you want people to stick around, you really need to drag out the central mystery a little more.

I don't remember Owain Yeoman being this smoking hot on The Mentalist. The stubble, maybe? At least they're letting him use his natural accent. The number of British actors playing American characters on primetime TV is getting ridiculous, to the point that on one new show, a British actor and another British actor are playing an American father and his American son.

Quote

Emily is totally AI herself.

Westworld ripoff? Hmm.

Edited by Eyes High
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7 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

I can't see them killing Owain Yeoman (the reporter) Rigsby is probably their most well known cast member after Terry O'Quinn, who always plays a weirdo and maybe Clancy Brown, another weirdo.

I doubt Owain Yeoman is going anywhere. TV shows with a (straight) female central character usually have one or more token hot guys in the main cast for eye candy/love interest purposes.

Edited by Eyes High
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7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

TV shows with a (straight) female central character usually have one or more token hot guys in the main cast for eye candy

For which I thank them. But I don't find the journalist actor the least bit attractive. How depressing is that. I don't think any of the men in this show are "hot," which leaves me to just appreciate good characters combined with good actors and good writing. I'll take that over token eye candy any day. (Well, most days ...) I still like this show, a lot.

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9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I don't remember Owain Yeoman being this smoking hot on The Mentalist. The stubble, maybe?

Just throwing it out there but perhaps you were focusing on Patrick Jane and not Rigsby.  Just like most of my focus wasn't on Lisbon but on the very beautiful Grace Van Pelt.

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On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 8:18 PM, stealinghome said:

I've never seen Allison Tolman in anything before but she is a gem.

Look for the tv series Fargo she's in the first season and plays a cop.

What a coincidence that the one file the hacker lady opened had Piper and Jo and the reporter just happened to walk into the house on the video. Or, maybe that wasn't Piper but another A.I. maybe they all look like Piper. Just a thought.

Who was shooting at the hacker and reporter and how did they know where they were? Did they track the drive and if so why didn't they track it when the tech lady had it?

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My problem with the reporter is that he is serving as a weird hybrid of conscience and narrator.  His interactions with Jo are too artificial to enjoy.

If they make him more of a person and trust the audience a bit more with subtle exposition, that would help.  They could also dress him down a bit.  Give him an ugly sweater or something so he mixes a bit better with the otherwise down to earth setting.

6 minutes ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

Or, maybe that wasn't Piper but another A.I. maybe they all look like Piper. Just a thought.

Hmm, interesting thought.

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Jo: "Good news everyone! I've taught the toaster to love!"

I thought last week was a bit of a dip in quality, but this week was a real return to form! I still dont know if Piper is a full on robot (I mean, do robots have superpowers normally and are so human they can fool medical tests?) and not a cyborg or something, but I glad that we are getting some answers and not just turning our wheels, like in a lost of these post Lost style shows. These writers do actually seem like they have some kind of end game planned out! They were really nailing that balance of mystery/genre show and family show that makes this all really work. You need the family stuff to ground the show when the more fantastical elements start to become more prominent. 

Its a good thing that a turtle happened by, Jo looked like she was about to tell Piper to look at the flowers! Its kind of contrived, but I can buy that Jo would look for any reason to hold onto seeing Pipers humanity. She already bonded with her and while she is creeped out by her and what she means, so she grabbed onto this look at her respecting life. I think that Piper does know more then what she is letting on, but she is basically just a nice little girl looking for a normal life and people that love her. Just a little robot girl who is kinda creepy and doesent really get people or how to control her powers.

Robot town was creepy, and makes me wonder how many "siblings" Piper might have around. When all she has around her are people simulating a life and love when they clearly treat her like a thing, I dont blame her for lashing out and being messed up.

Piper and Mia have such a sweet sisterly bond, loved Mia finding her when she ran away and them playing DDR together at Alex's house, and describing their family with her dad not living with them, but still a member of the family.

I was a little suspicious of the social worker, with her saying it was her first day and her first case. Is she actually a plant looking for information on Piper? 

The meeting between Terry O'Evil and Jo was really strong, Jo might be sweet and down to Earth, but she has an absolute steel core. "Enjoy your noodles. According to Yelp, they're bland and overcooked."

Emily and Chris are a surprisingly fun double act. I...might ship it? 

Love how the typical "sexy young goth tech girl" was actally the daughter of the actual hacker genius! I hope we see more of her, she seems like fun, certainly more fun than British journalist guy. I wonder if he will take more of an antagonist role now, trying to share the truth about Piper with the world for his own ends and being the "thats a machine not a person!!!" douchebag who always exists in these kinds of shows.

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Every imaginative manifestation of an artificial life form is different much like Vampires have different abilities according to the needs of the story.  Who knew Vampires could sparkle or that Robots can appear human (sans green eyes). Just  looking at Androids  on television; "Supergirl" has Brainiac, who in that manifestation is a somewhat benign romantic with stilted speech and contrast him alone with the Brainiac of "Krypton", a psychotic murderer with excellent diction. If in the future, man decides to grow clones as body parts for humans, do we condemn that practice or do we look at it as survival of the human race. If Robots are meant to aid or replace us, they need to become more human than Robbie the Robot.

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On 10/16/2019 at 6:04 AM, laprin said:

The town has several homes so I immediately began to wonder how many other "Pipers" exist. Surely, there were other kids with parents just judging by the bike in the street. Did they all revolt at the same time?

I wondered if they have, or are developing, adult models to populate that town.

On 10/16/2019 at 8:35 AM, sempervivum said:

The abandoned town smelled like 'Wandering Pines' (stinky), and really, is there anyplace in the first world that isn't on Google Earth?

I believe there are a few places that have been, at a minimum, blurred out. They did that for the VPs home when Cheney was VP. A tech company as advanced as Augur could certainly either hack the software/satellite, have an agreement with Google, or ARE Google in this universe.

Edited by Clanstarling
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3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I wondered if they have, or are developing, adult models to populate that town.

Very likely! It does make you wonder what the purpose of creating a child AI (or whatever she is) vs. adult is.

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1 hour ago, Paloma said:

Very likely! It does make you wonder what the purpose of creating a child AI (or whatever she is) vs. adult is.

Child AIs could appear with minimally doctored records of past life and wouldn't be expected to have old friends who knew them well or a work history with experience in customer service or interoffice politics. 
Plus, if the AIs learn from their environments and develop personalities (as Piper seems to me to possibly be doing) then child AIs would appear more natural to others as they learned about life among humans.

-------------

ETA: No. I am not a robot.

Edited by shapeshifter
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Izabella, that supposition was examined in the series "Humans" and the existence of a child A.I. drew the ire of actual humans who thought a child A.I. was an abomination or an insult.  We view our children differently than regular humans. Child vampires are considered abhorent as if there was such a thing. I would imagine a child A.I. would be unsettling. Jo, despite her maternal instincts, underwent a tremendous internal struggle when deciding whether she wanted to truly foster Piper. I'm torn whether she should have made that decision without informing the other adults in the situation with her. Dad and Ex-husband should be made aware. I don't think it's right for Jo to make this decision unilaterally. However, bringing them in could potentially upset an already delicate situation.

Edited by Jacks-Son
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Reading here, now I'm wondering if Piper will grow up or stay the same size. I guess the actress will continue to grow if this series is renewed, so that answers that. But it's a good hypothetical question since children are viewed as less threatening. And having a bunch of Piper look alikes is interesting. Because maybe that kid in the video isn't Piper but one of 100 other Pipers.

I wondered about the social worker being on her first day, but Jo made it clear she checked the woman out thoroughly with the home office. One perk of being a cop!

Now I'm wondering what Piper's purpose is. And how did her fake parents vanish out of Jo's office a couple episodes ago if they aren't aliens but robots too.

It's not good for me to think too deeply about this show.

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Emily says that Piper will be destroyed if she becomes self-aware, but that can't be true because isn't Piper at least a little bit self-aware? How else would she know about the thingamabob that she cut out from behind her ear?

I am starting to get a little suspicious of Emily. She claimed to Jo that she didn't know much and only worked on a tiny piece of coding; however, when Jo first met with Augur, Emily was floating around the head honcho like she was a top level executive, not a minor coder. She has to know that Piper went into berserk mode, yet she never warned Jo that Piper might be dangerous. Kindred warned Jo that Piper was dangerous, so maybe he is actually a good guy? My current theory is that Emily is one of those mad scientist types who is secretly tinkering with the A.I. for nefarious purposes and causing Piper to glitch out.

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46 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Reading here, now I'm wondering if Piper will grow up or stay the same size. I guess the actress will continue to grow if this series is renewed, so that answers that. But it's a good hypothetical question since children are viewed as less threatening. And having a bunch of Piper look alikes is interesting. Because maybe that kid in the video isn't Piper but one of 100 other Pipers.

Yeah, I wondered about her growing too. They referred to their being a "bio" part of the project that made her, so maybe they made a body real enough that it would grow? Obviously they will have to do that, since as you said, the actress will grow.

Making child robots, who can fold into society when they are young may be useful later in life. Sort of like a sleeper agent.

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55 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Reading here, now I'm wondering if Piper will grow up or stay the same size. I guess the actress will continue to grow if this series is renewed, so that answers that.

Good question.  I assume she will grow in the series, but I'm interested in hearing the scientists' explanation for  Piper's growth and how it is achieved from a purely scientific explanation,

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I guess there are a couple possibilities.  If her biology is synthetic because her DNA was genetically engineered, but she developed and was born through a normal process, then she should continue to grow.

If her organs were grown separately and then assembled with the implants, then she may stay the age she was designed to be.

Both of these ideas are creeping me out.

2 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

that supposition was examined in the series "Humans" and the existence of a child A.I. drew the ire of actual humans who thought a child A.I. was an abomination or an insult.

Also a discussion point in the movie A.I.

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20 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

Also a discussion point in the movie A.I.

If I remember correctly, in the movie, the child A.I.'s, "Mother" found out she was pregnant and no longer wanted her deceased child's replacement A.I., so she discarded it in the garbage?  Have I remembered correctly?

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@Jacks-Son, it's been a while since I watched, but as I recall (spoilers for A.I.),

Spoiler

her biological son was in a coma, woke up, and there was friction with the child A.I.  The biological son was injured while taunting the child A.I., and I think the father wanted to get rid of the child A.I.  The mother didn't want to see the child A.I. deactivated, so she drove him away and left him in the woods.

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Ah yes!!  Abandonment.  Thanks for the reminder.  Just leaving the A.I, in the woods is what people do to cats they no longer want. I guess  that's better than the garbage bin.  He promptly met Gigolo Joe in the woods.  Horrible, sad movie.  Not in a critical way, but saddening emotionally.

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11 hours ago, izabella said:

Child AI's might also be more easily accepted by humans as non-threatening.  Adult AI's are probably something that would make everyone freak out.

But Piper just isn't a child AI, she's also an incredibly powerful weapon -- so I'm thinking that she was being built as an infiltration/assassination unit like a Terminator. 
Because no one would ever suspect that a 'child' would be a threat.  Until it's too late.

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