S08.E01: Starling City

[scarynikki12]

Quote

While trying to decipher The Monitor's mission, Oliver returns to Starling City where he encounters familiar faces.

[insomniadreams88]

Enjoyed the callbacks. Enjoyed seeing Moira and Tommy again. Liked seeing Tommy as the Dark Archer since we never got that with E1 Tommy. 

Liked the Walter mention, but I've come to accept we're never going to see him again. (Which is just as well; I really wanted to get another Walter/Felicity scene, which obviously won't happen.)

Enjoyed seeing Chase as E2's Hood — but did we ever hear anything about Robert as E2 Hood considering that was established on The Flash? LOVED that Chase was the one to call Laurel "pretty bird" (because Oliver — any Oliver — would never) but couldn't help but think that the Black Siren of two seasons ago probably would've killed him just for that. 

The fake Felicity scene was okay, and I do love any time Oliver mentions a red pen, but I didn't love it like I'm sure they wanted Olicity fans to. 

Enjoyed the Oliver/Diggle scenes, though I'm annoyed that the Felicity/Diggle stuff is the same when she's off the show as when she was on it: off-screen. Also, gotta love how they were so happy to move on from Diggle's abandonment of Oliver/Felicity/their family last season and pretend that didn't happen.

Is it wrong that I'm most worried about Harry's fate out of any of the E2 characters we've ever met across the Arrowverse shows? He's the one we've gotten to know the most (on The Flash) and I did enjoy his brief interactions with Felicity. I hope he was on another Earth!

[scarynikki12]

That pretty bird moment was the kind of trolling that will go down in history. Epic. 

[quarks]

I cannot believe this show made me watch Moira die AGAIN.

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

but couldn't help but think that the Black Siren of two seasons ago probably would've killed him just for that. 

I wonder if that indicated he was into her and working up to asking her out? 

I was a bit disappointed that Moira didn’t figure out that this wasn’t her Oliver but it wouldn’t have fit so I won’t dwell. 

[bettername2come]

I really enjoyed this one. Didn't see that ending coming, which feels ridiculous given all we know is coming. Stephen Amell is one of the great criers of the CW. It's a shame we'll lose him and Jensen Ackles in the same season. Diggle is great. I love that he followed Oliver. I feel like they need to update Team Flash. 

This episode was so good that I completely forgot This Is Us was also on. Guess that answers the Stephen Amell vs. Justin Hartley question.

2 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I was a bit disappointed that Moira didn’t figure out that this wasn’t her Oliver but it wouldn’t have fit so I won’t dwell. 

I was just getting annoyed at Oliver for just leaving like that without telling her the truth about her Oliver, but I guess if their universe is destroyed it makes no difference.

I'm getting even more excited about Crisis now. 

[apinknightmare]

I wasn't sure that I wanted to watch this, but I've sat through 7 years of it so...why not? I really loved this episode, and I'm so pleasantly surprised. More surprised that I liked Malcolm! What a cool little AU trip. I think Oliver has just the right kind of attitude (still worried about whether he made the right choice to leave Felicity and Mia, resigned to his death but not dour). Loved how much they've incorporated Felicity even though Emily's not there. 

[calliope1975]

I wish I had felt nostalgia, but I was more irritated at what we could have had with Moira and Tommy and the many, many story lines they should have been a part of instead of watching scenes I'd seen before. 

I did like Diggle Earth jumping and surprising Oliver. I didn't like Oliver being a big, dumb martyr. I've just remembered this is my last year to get an Oliver Queen/Dean Winchester low self esteem off. 

Mia Smoak & Friends could have grown into something I'd be interested in watching, but it appears that's not the direction TPTB are going in, so oh well. 

[JamieLynn832002]

25 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The fake Felicity scene was okay, and I do love any time Oliver mentions a red pen, but I didn't love it like I'm sure they wanted Olicity fans to. 

I liked it but I couldn't help thinking that it would have been creepy/weird as hell for her even if it had been E2 Felicity because E2 Felicity doesn't know Oliver or their life together. It kind of  read as "I miss my wife so I'm going to go creep out an alternate Earth version of her."

[Lantern7]

Okay . . . so the final season of Arrow . . . the flagship series of the Arrowverse and the second-longest running geek show on the CW ending this season . . . is basically gonna be Sliders from now until the conclusion. Sure . . . why not? Ollie, Diggle, Laurel-2, and whatever schmucks they pick up along the way, ping-ponging through the multiverse.

So that was Earth-2? Did anyone come out and say it directly? Interesting way to insert Oliver . . . I'm guessing the Monitor will be a pain in the ass about things. "You will be needed for the oncoming Crisis. First . . . we need to make people on this Earth think you survived Lian Yu." "Didn't that version of myself die on that Earth?" "Which will make things more fun. Also, it's an excuse to bring back John Barrowman. Do you not like him?"

So . . . Laurel-2 is back and actually rocking the Chuck Dixon-era short-haired Black Canary look from Birds of Prey. Adrian Chase is The Hood. Tommy Merlyn is Dark Archer (because why not stick the whole salt shaker into Oliver's wounds?), and Diggle somehow made the trip to Earth-2. because Ollie needs his faithful companion. I do have to wonder if he throws up when traveling between Earths. I guess we'll find out next week.

Apparently, Malcolm worked through his (first) wife's murder. Good for him. I was still waiting for him to put on the dark hat because I can't recall Barrowman ever playing a putz.

Oh, and Team Future Arrow is still happening. I'm guessing it'll be for the inevitable episode where Mia and William meet Oliver. I can dig it. Does the future-set stuff make anyone else miss Legends of Tomorrow?

42 minutes ago, quarks said:

I cannot believe this show made me watch Moira die AGAIN.

I'm thinking a wall of antimatter was a better way to go than getting stabbed through the heart. And dang, you wouldn't have expected that to show up on Arrow first. Yeah, there was a bit of that with The Flash, but that was more of a vision.

[Trisha]

[wrong thread]

Also, this is supremely cringey 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Trisha

[UNOSEZ]

This was great.. Stephen did an amazing job... His reactions to the minor differences was golden... I Lol'd at Dig calling Adrian Ollie Curtis and felicity all rolled into one.. Even better was the Bruce Wayne name drop. Always hood to see Moira and Tommy... My only gripe was the flash forward... Not so much the storyline... They couldn't devote much time to it with what's going on with Ollie and the ever exciting Monitor.. My issue was Mia not being a team player at the beginning and then the horrible delivery of her saying they will do things her way from now on.. Because??.. I mean I get it.. She's the wunderkind of felicity and Ollie.. But ugh.. Maybe I'm being to hard and unfair.. But I watched her be a know-it-all who blunders her way into victories that cause Tons of collateral damage on shadowhunters I dunno if I could do the same here

[quarks]

3 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I'm thinking a wall of antimatter was a better way to go than getting stabbed through the heart. And dang, you wouldn't have expected that to show up on Arrow first. Yeah, there was a bit of that with The Flash, but that was more of a vision.

Oh, it was less emotionally painful to watch, certainly, and at least this time Oliver got to say goodbye first, but it's been five seasons later and I'm still not over Moira's first death and I didn't need to see a second one. That could have been Malcolm Merlyn vanishing into the antimatter instead. I'M JUST SAYING.

[Bulldog]

4 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Even better was the Bruce Wayne name drop.

Wasn't there a quick shot of the Batman mask on the shore of the island at the very beginning?

[statsgirl]

It feels like they are having a lot of fun, writing and acting this season of Arrow.  I thought the opening on the island was great, when Oliver pulled back the hood and he had short hair.  I miss Moira and it would have been interesting to see how she reacted to Oliver being a father.  JB was funny as a Malcolm Merlyn without a backbone.

I like that Thea's OD death was what caused Tommy to take up the Dark Archer mantle and try to blow up the Glades. Loved that Rene and Dinah got arrested.  Like Chase as the new Hood because that's what he really wanted, we didn't use enough of him in the episode.

I like how they got Diggle to meet up with Oliver and have the bromance carry on through this season. I don't like that they are taking E2 Laurel with them. Shes going to change their dynamic, and Diggle never had the kind of relationship with her that he has with Felicity. Nor does Oliver, for that matter.

In the future, JJ is definitely not a good person. He beats up women.  LOL at Mia telling JJ that now they are going to do it her way. Like father and mother, like daughter.

Zoe has apparently learned her attitude toward Mia from Dinah's towards Oliver.

2 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Wasn't there a quick shot of the Batman mask on the shore of the island at the very beginning?

Yes. I preferred that to Chase attributing Sherlock Holmes' classic line to Bruce Wayne. They also failed to give Mark Twain the credit for "lies, damn lies and statistics" line. I'm an academic, it bothers me.

[Chaser]

I watched. I don’t love myself.

For the most part I enjoyed it. I wish we had seasons of Tommy as the Dark Archer. And Moira! Oh the potential hurts.

I liked seeing Chase again but the Christian Bale impression was kind of off putting.

The not Felicity appearance did not go how I pictured. I thought it would be more emotional and less...cute. I really liked how they had Felicity send Diggle. They way they talked about her made her seem still apart of the Team.

Those were the heartwarming Oliver and Laurel scenes??? LOLOLOL. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, I don't get to watch this final season live due to it being on as another show, but with me also trying to stay as spoiler-free as possible, I guess I'll get the chance to express my thoughts and the surprises for this final season.

I loved all the callbacks. I loved seeing characters we haven't seen in a while. I loved seeing Oliver's reactions to the changes made. I thought it was a great first episode after three mediocre seasons. I'm all in for the fun ride ahead. I love that our Diggle was part of the crusade. I love that he'll be fighting side by side with Oliver. I also enjoyed Siren a lot more. Katie looks amazing in her new hairstyle and outfit.  

I think I am sad that this is what could have been with Tommy, if things had been different. Just more Tommy is always welcome. It sucks that Thea was technically dead in this world, but maybe she wasn't dead. Maybe she turned out like Sara instead.

The one thing I had issue with is knowing that this was Earth-2 (thanks to Siren calling it "her world") and knowing that it should have had Robert Queen as the Green Arrow. I guess they wrote that away. Maybe Barry changed the future of Earth-2 one of the times he was there (but I hope Harry and Jessie from The Flash are ok; maybe they got away?).

Future Team Arrow was fun enough. I actually liked some of their moments but I also feel like their plot is detracting from seeing Oliver's storyline. But if Mia and future William get to meet Oliver, then that'll be a fun episode to see. So I'm waiting for that.

Overall, a very solid premiere. I was surprised by a whole lot and am glad I'm staying relatively spoiler-free. 

[apinknightmare]

Also, I think this episode really benefited from not having a lot of Dinah and Rene in it. I did enjoy Oliver being snarky to Dinah as she was lying in a heap after going head over ass down the stairs. I can't believe they put that wretched drag in a spin-off they want people to actually watch. 

[scarynikki12]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It sucks that Thea was technically dead in this world, but maybe she wasn't dead. Maybe she turned out like Sara instead.

They're both certainly dead now, along with E2 Sara's kid (assuming Siren wasn't lying about that too), since those red skies moved quickly.

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I don't like that they are taking E2 Laurel with them. Shes going to change their dynamic, and Diggle never had the kind of relationship with her that he has with Felicity.

I just hope they don’t try to develop a Laurel/Diggle friendship again like they did in S4. 

[Chaser]

Watching Dinah and Rene get their asses kicked was a highlight. That’s some fanserve I can get behind.
 

DR said that a good chunk of 1/2 was Oliver, Diggle and Laurel being a new Team. That and the giddiness KC had going on, made me think there was going to be a lot more Laurel in the episode. I was pleasantly surprised to see her just be a side kick, tagalong. Speaking of, are we sure she’s a regular and not just recurring?

I think I like the Mia v JJ vibe and I’m still loving William. 

[Primal Slayer]

Overall it was a fun episode but we did not need the future storyline in this episode at all, it was a waste of space when we had so much that could've been explored on E2 considering this is the last time we'll see it.

The callbacks were fun and seeing them swap things out for different variations was a joy though they took a bit of a safe route with some characters (Dinah/Rene) by not doing anything extremely different. I mean...I guess they were "bad" this time around but even looks wise I would expect them to have a little bit of a different style. 

I would've loved to have seen more of Laurel/Adrians dynamic. I think he probably enjoys pushing her buttons. The new suit is so great! Probably #2 after Sara's. Really wish we could've gotten the extended Laurel/Tommy scene that they cut from the episode and just more Tommy in general (let the guy survive for once!) and join the team.

I do wish they played up the Crisis a bit more on E2, it shouldn't just be a sudden "Earth is on fire", give them red skies, thunder, not just a quick death.

[MarkHB]

I was hoping Earth 2 would go first. In the comic, Earth 3, home of the Crime Syndicate where all the Superhumans were evil, was the first one we saw destroyed. Arrowverse Earth 2 was essentially introduced as their version of that earth (2 and 3 are essentially swapped),  so, bye Felicia!

[Soulfire]

[BkWurm1]

I won't have the chance to watch Arrow live this season and was dreading watching minus the snark of the Live thread so I was pleasantly surprised by the good episode.  I enjoyed this redo AU in a way I never came close with the 100th episode.  This felt so much more true to the characters.  And while Felicity wasn't there, she was referenced so many times.  I teared up a few times like when Oliver mention losing people close to him in ways others couldn't imagine.  Or when he asked his mom about leaving to protect the ones they loved.  And of course when he was looking at their picture.

It struck me that even if we never see the picture again, it wouldn't matter since Felicity and his children's meaning to him is there in every action he takes.  Like the contrast between the Oliver that came back from "the island" in our season one versus who he was in "Starling City"  All his emotional growth, all his reasons for carrying on, that's Felicity and William and Mia. He is who he is because of them. I loved how clearly that shone through.

I LOVE Oliver getting probably the child safety locks on when he tried to ditch Diggle.  It was so nice having real Diggle even if I couldn't help think, huh, stuff like this is probably why your son grows up to be a monster. 

Speaking of JJ, good casting there.  I could see Diggle's face in his.  

The Fast Forwards made me fall in love with William and Mia as a team within the team all over again.  I'm still not buying that the Mia spin off can possibly be without FTA.  I'm still waiting for that to be revealed as just a lot of smoke because it's so clear the direction the spin off should be and it's not Mia and the back up singers. 

It's not a coincidence that the quality of episodes rise in ratio to how little the birds are flapping around.  

I did take great satisfaction in Rene and Dinah being hauled off to jail.  

Adrian Chase was a bit growly, lol, but I'll love his Hood/GA forever for saying the Pretty Bird line to Siren/BC.  I also was amused that she ditched the sacred ode to buckles that was Laurel's old costume the moment she got home.  

Evil Tommy was very hot.  

If the rest of Arrow is just Oliver dropping into other universes, I could get behind it.  I'll be less forgiving of any episodes where he might spend a lot of time Earth 1.  Harder to spin him not trying to call Felicity to at least if he spends too much time on E1

[thuganomics85]

CW's OG D.C. show is back for one last ride and they kick things off with the fanservice!  Hey, it's the final season, so I'll roll with it!

Fun seeing Oliver maneuverer through a new universe and seeing all the differences: both good and bad for him.  Moira is still alive, but actually marries Malcolm.  Tommy is also alive, but ends up taking the Dark Archer mantle.  Adrian Freaking Chase is the Hood and has teamed up with the Black Siren?!  But, sadly, Thea is dead by overdosing on Vertigo.  I do suspect that might have been her path had Oliver not comeback when he did.

Of the returns, Colin Donnell definitely shined as always, and continues to make me wish that Tommy didn't get killed off as early as he did.  But I think my MVP is once again Susanna Thompson as Moira.  She really is just perfection in the role and seems to always elevate not just the scenes, but bring the best out of the rest of the cast as well.

Since I'm petty as hell, I cackled over watching Rene and Dinah get dropped like nothing.  No matter what universe they are in, they'll always be lame as hell!

I did like that Diggle was actually "our Diggle", who was sent to help Oliver.

The flash-forwards were alright, but not as interesting as the main stuff.  Although Adult William continues to be way more fun than Angsty Teen William.

The Felicity fake-out was a bit much, although I suspect that the real one will show up at some point this season, even if it is only for one scene.

Glad they at least name-dropped Walter, but I really wish we got to see him again.  Television needs more Colin Salmon!

Pretty good premiere!  Let us hope they can stick the landing.

[JamieLynn832002]

21 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Since I'm petty as hell, I cackled over watching Rene and Dinah get dropped like nothing.  No matter what universe they are in, they'll always be lame as hell!

I'm apparently petty as hell too, I think that actually may have been my favorite part of the episode

[Bulldog]

Loved Oliver muttering "showoff" when Chase went up the salmon ladder.

[Chaser]

So was Oliver’s plan really to bring E2 Oliver back to life, reunite him with his family and then disappear on them? That’s cruel.

[quarks]

48 minutes ago, Chaser said:

So was Oliver’s plan really to bring E2 Oliver back to life, reunite him with his family and then disappear on them? That’s cruel.

I feel that was more of the Monitor's plan, and that if the special effects hadn't erased E2 at the end of the episode, Oliver would have tried to set up some sort of visitation system. Cisco does have more of those portal thingies.

[KittenPokerCheater]

It’s hard for me to feel outraged/sad that Earth 2 is gone, because this is DC and I am sure it will magically get resurrected when Oliver makes the “ultimate sacrifice.”

And shallow, but was Oliver shirtless during season one when he was chained up?  Because I wished Oliver had been shirtless.  And it annoys me if the reason he wasn’t was because the actor wasn’t feeling like working out over the summer.  I missed his Salmon ladder too.

I liked Siren/Laurel.  She works so much better when she gets to be bitchy and snarky.  

[CabotCove]

A good start to the season, it was all season 1 rolled in one episode. Colin Donnell killed it as the dark archer, always knew it was a mistake to kill him so early. The scene he had Oliver chained up  might just be the best of the episode. Laurel's bunker is a nice set up and that costume is very Smallville but improved version. And Crisis has began, Earth 2 is the first to go.  FIRE!

Quote

So was Oliver’s plan really to bring E2 Oliver back to life, reunite him with his family and then disappear on them? That’s cruel.

I guess maybe he knew Laurel and Adrian stay there and would be there to explain everything? Probably couldnt bring himself to do it in person or he ran out of time. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by CabotCove

[tv echo]

Weirdly enjoyable episode - I didn't plan to watch, but I got sucked in...

Opening Cast Credits:  

• Stephen Amell, David Ramsey, Rick Gonzalez, Juliana Harkavy, Katherine McNamara, Ben Lewis, Joseph David-Jones, LaMonica Garrett, and "Special Appearance By Katie Cassidy."
• Then "Special Guest Star": Susanna Thompson, John Barrowman, Josh Segarra.
• Then "Guest Starring": Andrea Sixtos, Charlie Barnett.  
• No Colin Donnell in the opening cast credits (that I could see). Was he in the closing credits?

E2 Adrian Chase as E2 Hood: 
JS was great. It's ironic but appropriate that evil E2 Laurel partnered with evil E1 Adrian Chase to kidnap Oliver's loved ones and cause the death of William's bio mom, but then on Earth 2, now good E2 Laurel partners with good E2 Adrian Chase to fight for Starling City.

Ha, ha - and it's Adrian Chase who calls Laurel "Pretty Bird".  I guess this means that in the Arrowverse, evil or good, Laurel and Adrian are OTP. 😉

But what happened to E2 Robert Queen? Isn't it Arrowverse canon that he was the Green Arrow on Earth 2? Strange that the episode didn't even mention him.

And did everyone on Earth 2 just forget about Black Siren's murderous past? Or don't they recognize Laurel with her new short haircut? It's like the show completely forgot that E2 Laurel used to be an evil killer on both Earth 2 and Earth 1.

Felicity - Gone But Not Forgotten:
Okay, they got me with Oliver's "It's supposed to be red" line. 😞 Not Felicity was apparently played by Gordon Verheul's daughter.

Even though Felicity wasn't in this episode, there were 6 references to her (see Quotes thread). And, of course, we have this heartbreaking scene of Oliver in the E2 Queen Mansion where Oliver looks at a photo of Felicity and Baby Mia 😢 :

E2 Tommy as the Dark Archer:
No surprise. CD was great as evil Tommy.

Diggle as Diggle:
Actually a surprise. "Fool me once."

ETA: SA's acting has become quite impressive over eight seasons. He and CD were the acting MVPs of this episode (imo).

(The above videos were posted by O&F on youtube.)

Edited October 16, 2019 by tv echo

[Bulldog]

While I am not a fan of the character of Rene at all, I would have LOVED it if E2 Rene referred to everyone as "Little Joe."

[statsgirl]

Awww, in that clip Moira said "You must feel like you're on a different planet or something."  The writers must be having such fun this season.

Speaking of fun, Diggle's face in the car as he knows that Oliver is going to try to sneak out the door, and that he doesn't know that this is his Diggle, not an E2 one.

[Kymmi]

I didn’t plan to watch, but there I was. I am shocked at how much I enjoyed it. 

Favorites - Diggle outsmarting Oliver. Tommy. The tears in SA,s eyes in his scenes with Moira and Tommy. Adrian Chase as the Hood!  I love JS so much. Laurel and her new costume (really liked her whole vibe). Oliver looking for E2 Felicity. William being smart and charming and funny. Keep him forever. 

Liked less than I thought - Diggle brothers, but I hope this picks up more. 

Hated - for once, nothing. I will keep this on the DVR because I’m curious now how they do this. 

I can’t believe how few comments there are, though. End of an era. 

[way2interested]

Gotta say, on rewatch, I still laugh at their on-the-nose transitions (Monitor asking Oliver if he remembers why he's doing this-->cuts to William and the team, close up of DR-->close up of CB, close up of SA--> close up of KM, etc.)

[Primal Slayer]

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

Weirdly enjoyable episode - I didn't plan to watch, but I got sucked in...

Opening Cast Credits:  

• Stephen Amell, David Ramsey, Rick Gonzalez, Juliana Harkavy, Katherine McNamara, Ben Lewis, Joseph David-Jones, LaMonica Garrett, and "Special Appearance By Katie Cassidy."
• Then "Special Guest Star": Susanna Thompson, John Barrowman, Josh Segarra.
• Then "Guest Starring": Andrea Sixtos, Charlie Barnett.  
• No Colin Donnell in the opening cast credits (that I could see). Was he in the closing credits?

E2 Adrian Chase as E2 Hood: 
JS was great. It's ironic but appropriate that evil E2 Laurel partnered with evil E1 Adrian Chase to kidnap Oliver's loved ones and cause the death of William's bio mom, but then on Earth 2, now good E2 Laurel partners with good E2 Adrian Chase to fight for Starling City.

Ha, ha - and it's Adrian Chase who calls Laurel "Pretty Bird".  I guess this means that in the Arrowverse, evil or good, Laurel and Adrian are OTP. 😉

But what happened to E2 Robert Queen? Isn't it Arrowverse canon that he was the Green Arrow on Earth 2? Strange that the episode didn't even mention him.

And did everyone on Earth 2 just forget about Black Siren's murderous past? Or don't they recognize Laurel with her new short haircut? It's like the show completely forgot that E2 Laurel used to be an evil killer on both Earth 2 and Earth 1.

I would've totally been down for a Adrian/Laurel E2 romance, still wish they would've had Laurel/Tommy in an E2 romance. 

MG stated that like Oliver passing on the cowl, Robert likely did the same but yeah it was weird that they didn't address it. 

It's a comic book show so people probably didn't even know who she was despite her face being shown.

[apinknightmare]

10 hours ago, tv echo said:

No Colin Donnell in the opening cast credits (that I could see). Was he in the closing credits?

Yes, he was in the closing credits billed as a "Special Guest Star".

[apinknightmare]

I know I’m setting myself up for 🤡 status, but Diggle repeatedly trying to convince Oliver that they could change his fate gave me hope. 

[Chaser]

I’m constantly floating between ‘it ended in 7x22, EBR isn’t coming back, Oliver is going to float away to another dimension’ and ‘🤡🤡🤡’.

[theschnauzers]

The EP’s post episode interview made clear the end of E2 was cleared with the Flash production team. It made sense that E2 Laurel escaped with Oliver and Diggle she she fully knew of E1 and had been there. 

Oliver did get the crystals so that mission was accomplished.

As to FTA, the article mentions a new title for the spinoff that implies good news for FTA and for me, William in particular. The writing for the flash forwards based on this episode is tighter, probably because they don’t have to make it last for 22 episodes. And I’m not convinced we won’t see Tommy before Crisis; I think we will. At least E2 Tommy figured out Oliver wasn’t from E2, which made that eyeball to eyeball scene interesting.

[Chaser]

New title?

[Richness]

Wow. I've forgotten what it's like to enjoy an episode of Arrow. Not just a few scenes, but an entire episode. Granted, I still hate everything about the flash-forwards. But the alternate universe peek was awesome, and brought back all the best stuff from the Arrow that I loved. 

[tennisgurl]

So we come not to bury Arrow, but to celebrate it. I am sad that I missed watching live, but better late than turned to dust by Crisis! That was one hell of an ending, I didnt see that coming at all! Earth 2 is gone! So are Harry and Jesse dead now?!? I hope not, especially Harry, my favorite of the billion Wells! 

Stephen really does the manly cry like no one else in the business. Because Oliver just doesent have enough horrible traumas, lets have him watch his mother and best friend both die...again! I really liked the AU and all of the call backs from the pilot, it really did get me all nostalgic, with them doing a good job at mixing the call backs (the dialogue, Walter reference, seeing Not Felicity) with the new story. I loved seeing Moira, Tommy, Chase, and even Malcolm again, some in really different roles, which was fun to see and you could tell the actors were having a blast playing different versions of their original characters. Chase as The Hood and Tommy doing the Undertaking as revenge for Thea dying of an overdose were especially clever AU ideas. Also loved that Tommy was convinced to stop by Oliver, of course I always love their friendship and the reminders of Tommy. Tommy's death might be the one that haunts Oliver the most, even years later he cant even bring up Tommy without getting emotional. 

Speaking of best friends forever, Diggle is here and ready to tell Oliver to stop being a martyr damn it. Oh man, the look on Oliver's face when he saw what he thought was Earth 2 Diggle! It was like a man in the desert finding a glass of water! Then of course "You already fooled me with that once." I like how the whole ticking time bomb with The Monitor is going. Oliver is terribly sad but resigned and not overly angsty, more determined, while Diggle is not cool with his best friend dying because some dramatic space man says so, and is ready to put up a fight. And Diggle pointing out that Oliver made the world a better place, no matter how much he likes to blame himself for everything. SAY IT LOUDER FOR THECHEAPSEATS!! OLIVER IS A GOOD PERSON!

I could watch Rene and Dinah get their asses kicked by Oliver all day long. 

I like the flashforwards, New Team Arrow are very enjoyable to watch, they have a great energy that hearkens back to OTA without being a copy. I dont like JJ being evil though, I have no idea how this could have happened and its pretty depressing. Of course with Crisis, who knows if it will even stick?

Spoiler

See show? You have a great spin-off right here, without a whole stupid flock of canaries everywhere! Come on!!

[UNOSEZ]

As one of the 8 ppl who like both canaries.. I got no beef with a spinoff.. I will ask if anyone else thought dinah's face looked off... Like work done... Maybe it was makeup or her hair.. But it threw me

[bethy]

Add me to the list of people who really enjoyed this episode. I, too, had almost forgotten what it was like to be so engaged with Arrow. And let's see. Why was that? Oh, yeah. They focused on Oliver and his journey. Who'da thought that would be what make Arrow interesting again?! The flash-forwards were there and fine, but the HEART of this episode was Oliver. I love you, man!

Moira and Tommy and cowardly Malcolm were amaze-balls. Oh, Oliver. Those hugs with his mom and Tommy? Heartbreaking. I've missed those relationships and it was nice to see them again. Even if for so short a time.

What's his face and what's her name as villains and taken out so easily by Oliver? Perfection.

I often find hair and makeup for Dinah odd and distracting. What was up with all the poof on her hair? And with the makeup I was honestly trying to figure out if they'd tried to age the character for some reason. 

Also, I may not be able to watch live any more and be part of the live viewing thread, but I read it as I watch later. In case people are wondering about all the late "reaction" notifications from me! Not as great as doing it in real-time, but still fun to read!

[tv echo]

Btw, back in July, MG tweeted that "801 holds the answer" to the question of whether E2 Laurel is now called Black Canary or still called Black Siren. Yet I don't recall either name being used in this episode. (I've seen different media reviews of this episode call her Black Siren, Black Canary, just Laurel, and even "Not-Laurel.") So I guess we still don't know what E2 Laurel is calling herself these days. Then at the end of this episode, she goes back to Earth 1, which already has a Black Canary in Dinah. And we know from last season's flashforwards that Dinah was still known as Black Canary 20 years in the future. Maybe next week's episode will clear this up.

In her tweets, KC calls this Laurel "Black Canary." However, during interviews over the summer, both JH and KC said that their respective character was the Black Canary. 😵

Edited October 17, 2019 by tv echo

[Cekrypton1]

I had totally forgotten over the summer that EBR was no longer on the show until reading this thread.😆

[lemotomato]

46 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Btw, back in July, MG tweeted that "801 holds the answer" to the question of whether E2 Laurel is now called Black Canary or still called Black Siren. Yet I don't recall either name being used in this episode. (I've seen different media reviews of this episode call her Black Siren, Black Canary, just Laurel, and even "Not-Laurel.") So I guess we still don't know what E2 Laurel is calling herself these days. Then at the end of this episode, she goes back to Earth 1, which already has a Black Canary in Dinah. And we know from last season's flashforwards that Dinah was still known as Black Canary 20 years in the future. Maybe next week's episode will clear this up.

I'm guessing the big purple neon bird sign in her copycat bunker answers what name she's going by.