S01.E04: Rose390

[formerlyfreedom]

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Description to come

Airing Thursday, October 17, 2019.

[janeta]

Yeah, the mute button's getting a workout whenever those kids are onscreen.

so why on earth did the parents let eric anywhere near the baby?

[Eliza422]

Is there no sibling rivalry with the girls? My sister and I were only 18 months apart and we did not get along like that! Especially the two oldest girls, they want to hang around with such young sisters?

seems like mom should have taught some fucking manners, yeesh.

as for the psycho kid, I mean, what could they have done? Already attempted murder at 9? What real options did they have, just wait until he can be charged with a crime? What would psychology be able to do?

[HerkyJerky]

I must have missed something.  Why was Kristen crying at the end?

[Eliza422]

1 minute ago, HerkyJerky said:

I must have missed something.  Why was Kristen crying at the end?

My only thought was her husband is really dead, she killed him and hid the body!

seriously, I think it was a combo of fear from the vid game, meeting a mom so desperate as to kill her own child, and her husband is away and she’s dealing with all this alone...I think?

[Madding crowd]

I think this was a good episode, that game was really creepy! Was the boy supposed to be playing that game in the very beginning? I wonder if they will come back to it. I couldn’t understand them letting him near the baby but I think he was acting nice for awhile and they let down their guard. 

[meatball77]

I think it was the creepy courtroom psycho messing with her kids in the game.  I would like the kids more if they weren't so obnoxious.  So loud.

And four kids in a room with two bunkbeds.  That's just absurd.  So she lives in a two bedroom house, with six people (five with her husband away).

[Madding crowd]

I didn’t think about the creepy courtroom guy being behind it- interesting idea!

[LittleIggy]

That was the best episode so far, IMO. I didn’t even mind the daughters. That game was as creepy as hell. When the Ouija board turned up, I knew it was bad news! Always is. 😆 Glad there was no Michael Emerson popping up.

BTW, that redheaded baby was adorable.

[Athena5217]

1 hour ago, janeta said:

Yeah, the mute button's getting a workout whenever those kids are onscreen.

Those 4 girls may be the reason I stop watching this show. The Brady Bunch has 6 kids, and they weren’t nearly as loud when they were all together.

I understand Kristen might not be familiar with the latest AR devices and games, but she is not clueless either so I’d expect her to look at those devices more carefully before saying they are okay.

So far the religious exploration of the case of the weak has been the weakest part. That boy seemed evil but displayed no other signs of possession. He had no seizures, did not speak other languages, did not have hidden knowledge , and did not show superhuman strength. He was not eager to take the rosary, but had no problem holding it. If I was a kid and a stranger was pushing me to hold a rosary, I would be reluctant too because it’s weird. There was no indication of a supernatural cause, so it seems like the Church would not want to spend money on two consultants fo this case. It would just offer the usual counseling to partitioners in need.

[sheetmoss]

11 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

I must have missed something.  Why was Kristen crying at the end?

My take was the mom killed the 'missing' son and it was a delayed reaction.

 

10 hours ago, meatball77 said:

And four kids in a room with two bunkbeds.  That's just absurd.  So she lives in a two bedroom house, with six people (five with her husband away).

In time's past, the 4 girls ,may have even shared a bed...you do what you have to do.

[AnimeMania]

Not sure why they wanted to turn this into "Kiddy Snuff Film the TV Series". They put 7 young children's lives in danger this episode and one died and one almost died. I am not sure that is the type of entertainment that people want to see. If you are going to show evil and demons, leave the kids out of it. I feel like a broken record at this point, but I feel this is what will cause people to stop watching.

[luvly]

So am I the only one who needed to watch a couple of light-hearted comedies after this one? That was way darker than I was expecting. I kind of wish Kristen had been the one to present the "fake it til you make it" philosophy to the kid because David isn't well-trained enough to realize that he was basically teaching a budding psychopath how to assimilate and manipulate for personal gain.

That Ouija board is definitely going to come back to haunt them.

[janeta]

And why was the showerhead already off in eric's bathroom?

The grandmother gave the kids the VR sets (2 sets for 4 kids? Yeah, like that would work out well...) so they were already into the creepy game before kristen got home.  Never occurred to me that it might be Townsend behind that, hmmmm...  And have we ever seen the exterior of that house? i would think it has more than two bedrooms, too.

And of course, not a peep about Glover jumping off the building last ep. 

I'm beginning to wonder about the father, too. Maybe they just haven’t cast him yet, hence not even a video chat with him?

And no, let's not ever seen Kristen and David go out for drinks.  Just, no.

[Chaos Theory]

9 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

I must have missed something.  Why was Kristen crying at the end?

The group had decided to perform an exorcism on the kid but when they got to the house the family had pretty much said they had taken care of the problem.  They had killed their son.  I mean she has kids of her own and and the idea of one of them being a psychopath would effect her the most.

David meant well with his advice to the kid but he in essence was giving him tips on how to blend in and hunt.

The VR setup was to further mess with Kristen’s  family.  Yeah only having 2 setups for 4 kids isn’t especially well thought out but it did make for interesting tv.   One kid puts on the VR glasses and sees something and freaks and then the other doesn’t see anything.

futher proof that our tech is out to get us.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Chaos Theory
and even further proof that I think my cell phone hates me

[MissL]

I do like the creep factor in this show but there is just so much going on that doesn’t make sense. So I have to assume Eric DIDN'T do the VR glasses in the beginning of the ep because they never drew that connection so why was that the opening teaser?   

And now Kristen and her family not only are being terrorized by what I still assume is a real demon George because of the work she is doing with the church (unless we really saw the last of him with that movie thing) they just randomly happen to use an evil virtual Ouija board which has probably infected their house now? I’d except it more if they show that somehow grandma was influenced by Michael Emerson to buy those things.

And are Aasif and his sister still being terrorized by whatever demon thingy was after them? Dangling threads. 

I don’t think they had to hit the audience over the head at the parents house with the mom actually saying WITHIN EARSHOT of the police “I had to take action.” And then David saying out loud “they killed him.” Yeah. Got it. Thanks.

I still kinda like this show though cuz it can scare me and that doesn’t happen often.

[milner]

As they were leaving the family’s house at the end David whispered something and my CC said “they’ve killed him”. I think that’s why Kristen was crying 

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, janeta said:

And have we ever seen the exterior of that house? i would think it has more than two bedrooms, too.

I posted a picture here:

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/98229-s01e01-pilot/?do=findComment&comment=5643084

[Emma9]

7 hours ago, luvly said:

I kind of wish Kristen had been the one to present the "fake it til you make it" philosophy to the kid because David isn't well-trained enough to realize that he was basically teaching a budding psychopath how to assimilate and manipulate for personal gain.

Same. Her perspective on the subject was creepy in its very matter-of-factness, which I liked - my favorite moment from her character thus far.

Enjoyed the episode overall, despite the plot holes.

[ketchuplover]

Dear God ...

For the love of you please let there be one demonic possession before this series dies. Thank you

[luvmylabs]

Well, I like this show even though hubby doesn't...creepy enough to keep me coming back.  I guess the 4 girls are a little much with their bickering, but I can see it happening.  But Grandma!  Just buy those kids anything so she doesn't have to interact with them.  Are there really things like that out there?  I'm way behind the times when it comes to technology.

[sempervivum]

This episode was very creepy- the VR stuff, not the Damian-esque kid. I wasn't alone in the house, but my skin was definitely crawling.  Since I had a weird experience many years ago with a Ouija board, that stuff really disturbed me.

I thought money was tight for this family- I'm not sure how much a VR system costs, but 2 sets plus games can't be cheap. And I know she's supposed to be an old drunk (or whatever), but how can Granny have no idea when the kids' birthdays are?

I actually think the girls are cute, and I like the way they all talk at once. But all the hanging on each other, hugging and lying on each other? No fighting? Not like any siblings I know.

I didn't understand any of the psycho-religious babble going on with David and Kristen. Telling a demon-possessed kid to just pray? Telling a psychopath to 'fake it'? Did Kristen, in particular, actually think her smug little catch phrase would fix the kid, when he'd been through 12 psychiatrists already?

Also, something weird is going on with Daddy; I'm starting to think he either doesn't exist at all, or is already dead. I thought it was peculiar when the Ouija board answered 'heaven' when the girls asked where dad was. Wouldn't a demon have said 'hell'?

Edited October 18, 2019 by sempervivum
duplicate paragraphs

[AnimeMania]

11 minutes ago, luvmylabs said:

Well, I like this show even though hubby doesn't...creepy enough to keep me coming back.  I guess the 4 girls are a little much with their bickering, but I can see it happening.  But Grandma!  Just buy those kids anything so she doesn't have to interact with them.  Are there really things like that out there?  I'm way behind the times when it comes to technology.

Yes, the tech to do Augmented Reality (AR) is readily available, unfortunately in order to have an inexpensive version ($5-$20), something where the grandma could afford two of, would require you to insert your cellphone into the device. Google has made goggles out of cardboard. The cellphone provides the screen, camera, and computer power and what you are really buying is a way to duct tape a cellphone to your face that blocks out most of the light from the room. I don't think the girls have cellphones, so the grandma would have to pay ($90-$400 each headset) for non cellphone requiring versions, which makes me think she wouldn't shell out that much or maybe she would, since she said they were birthday presents for the 4 girls. The interface seemed cheap, but the graphics were not that bad. 

Virtual Reality (VR) creates a new world for you to interact in, not dependent of where you are.

Augmented Reality (AR) typically creates new situations overlayed on your physical surroundings, which requires you to view everything through the camera. 

[LittleIggy]

14 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Not sure why they wanted to turn this into "Kiddy Snuff Film the TV Series". They put 7 young children's lives in danger this episode and one died and one almost died. I am not sure that is the type of entertainment that people want to see. If you are going to show evil and demons, leave the kids out of it. I feel like a broken record at this point, but I feel this is what will cause people to stop watching.

I doubt it. Children in peril is a common horror genre trope. Look at Poltergeist, The Shining, Don’t Be Afraid of the Dark remake, etc. 

[Katy M]

17 hours ago, Eliza422 said:

s for the psycho kid, I mean, what could they have done? Already attempted murder at 9? What real options did they have, just wait until he can be charged with a crime?

He threw the baby into the pool.  I don't think they would have needed to wait until he could be charged with a crime.  

16 hours ago, meatball77 said:

And four kids in a room with two bunkbeds.  That's just absurd.  So she lives in a two bedroom house, with six people (five with her husband away).

If that's what they can afford, that's what they can afford.

That grandmother is the worst.  First of all, she didn't check out that game at all to see if it was appropriate.  She didn't give the kids any rules re: the game.  The kids even had a conference before saying they were over 18, so I think if grandma told them to make sure they said no to over 18, they would have.  And, then there are 2 different kinds of kid screams. There are fun screams.  And there are terrified screams.  The kids were clearly doing the latter and grandma didn't even go check on them?  Ben, the Magnificent was a better babysitter than grandma and that's not even what he was there to do.

If I was Krista, I wouldn't have let them have the game back at all after lying.  Plus, only the very youngest one would have cared about that bunny game.  

5 hours ago, sempervivum said:

I thought money was tight for this family- I'm not sure how much a VR system costs, but 2 sets plus games can't be cheap. And I know she's supposed to be an old drunk (or whatever), but how can Granny have no idea when the kids' birthdays are?

Granny bought the games, so it had nothing to do with how much money mom an dad have.  I think she knows when their birthdays are.  She just got them something to keep them out of her hair while she gambled.  

8 hours ago, MissL said:

don’t think they had to hit the audience over the head at the parents house with the mom actually saying WITHIN EARSHOT of the police “I had to take action.” And then David saying out loud “they killed him.” Yeah. Got it. Thanks.

Actually, I did need to be hit over the head.  I didn't realize it at all until David said that.  

[Annber03]

14 hours ago, luvly said:

I kind of wish Kristen had been the one to present the "fake it til you make it" philosophy to the kid because David isn't well-trained enough to realize that he was basically teaching a budding psychopath how to assimilate and manipulate for personal gain.

My thoughts exactly. I did like the way David tried to bond with him, but yeah, his advice was not going to help this kid. 

Regarding the kid still being in the house, I didn't find that so implausible-I've seen true crime stories in which children did things like that to their siblings and didn't get removed from the house. Their parents often had them undergo psychological evaluations instead. 

But wow, did that storyline end on a chilling note. That kid was the sort of person I could easily see being discussed an episode of "Killer Kids" or "Evil Lives Here" or something like that. 

This whole episode in general was the first one that I actually found creepy and unsettling. That video game was really unnerving, too (the spiders alone would've been enough for me to say, "Yeah, I'm out").

Quote

That Ouija board is definitely going to come back to haunt them.

Oh, yeah. 

I didn't mind the girls this episode-Ben's interaction with them was entertaining and rather cute, and I liked how they interacted while playing that game, being curious to join in and yet wanting to protect each other at the same time.

The ominous hints about the dad have me curious, too. 

[Driad]

The little girl who was terrified, ran down the stairs, and seemed to have a seizure -- was she the one who has a bad heart and could drop dead any minute?  That would be less "work" for Grandma.

[Katy M]

18 minutes ago, Driad said:

The little girl who was terrified, ran down the stairs, and seemed to have a seizure -- was she the one who has a bad heart and could drop dead any minute?  That would be less "work" for Grandma.

I don't think she was having a seizure.  She was fighting off the monster.  But, that does remind me.  Besides asking if they were pregnant, didn't it ask if they had a heart condition.  Do none of the kids know about it?  But, yes, I just looked up the transcript and she said it was her youngest daughter with the heart problem.

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

egarding the kid still being in the house, I didn't find that so implausible-I've seen true crime stories in which children did things like that to their siblings and didn't get removed from the house. Their parents often had them undergo psychological evaluations instead. 

It's not even so much about what the parents want.  The mom said that they tried to send him to a facility and they sent him back. I read about a couple who was scared of their child and they locked him in his room, much like these parents, and they were given the choice to not lock it or go to jail for child endangerment in case of fire.  They at least didn't have any other children that they were worried about.  You can't surrender your child at that age.  It's not legal.  Unless you have a lot of money, there aren't a lot of options for people with a psycho kid.

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

This whole episode in general was the first one that I actually found creepy and unsettling. That video game was really unnerving, too (the spiders alone would've been enough for me to say, "Yeah, I'm out").

Yeah.  And that's not the first time they've called the youngest one a baby.  They should have switched the game before they handed it to her.  Not that I'm really blaming any of the kids.  Of course, she would freak out.  That was scary.  And the other kids are still kids.  They can't be expected to always think.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Katy M

[Driad]

29 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Unless you have a lot of money, there aren't a lot of options for people with a psycho kid.

There was a case in the news ... a young man did something horrible, and one of his parents said, "We have been terrified of him since he was eight, but no one would help."

[beadgirl]

This episode was so heartbreaking and upsetting. I'm part of a special needs moms group, and some of the mothers are dealing with really tough situations; not as bad as this, but close. I kept hoping that there would be some unrealistically happy ending for the family. I did not expect such an awful result, though.

Which is why (I know I'm in the minority here) I really like the scenes with the girls. As loud and screechy as they are (almost as loud as my three boys) they bring a bit of joy and life-affirmation into the show that is desperately needed. Aasif's reactions to them (I forget his character's name) was cracking me up.

I appreciate, too, how much actual, sincere praying on the part of whatshisname (I really need to learn the names) we're seeing on this show. So rare for a major network show. 

(As an aside, I don't find the house too unrealistic; I used to live in that area of Queens, and some of those row houses only have two bedrooms; the house I'm in now has three bedrooms, but one is really tiny and barely holds a bed and bureau.)

[janeta]

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I posted a picture here:

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/98229-s01e01-pilot/?do=findComment&comment=5643084

Ah, Ok, then i'll buy the few bedrooms.  I think her office is in the back yard.

[sharifa70]

Not gonna lie, this episode’s creepy kids scared the crap out of me. I had to close all the curtains and snuggle with the dog. 

I am really enjoying this show.

Edited October 19, 2019 by sharifa70

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, sharifa70 said:

Not gonna lie, this episode’s creepy kids scared he crap out of me. I had to close all the curtains and snuggle with the dog. 

I am really enjoying this show.

I have a cat.  They're useless for protection.  Unless they trip an intruder.  But, no good for scary TV or movies.

[tvburr]

This one...

I'm loving the creepiness. It was very funny the kid biting his sister because she wouldnt let him watch Steven Universe. He got all the wrong messages of that show lol

I don't mind so much the four girls and they being like that. Sometimes during this episode i wished the focus would go back to their story.

Good episode. I want more of this stuff on my tv. Hope that the show get a second season.

[wellread]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the show's confusion of superstition and Catholic doctrine.  For example in this episode, Eric is asked to hold a rosary, which he apparently couldn't do if he were possessed by a demon.  Any time now, we will see someone hold up a rosary to ward off a demon!  I guess this tendency is part of the way the show is all over the place in its point of view, but it is insulting to many Catholics.

[Norma Desmond]

On 10/18/2019 at 4:08 AM, luvly said:

So am I the only one who needed to watch a couple of light-hearted comedies after this one? That was way darker than I was expecting.

Nope. This episode genuinely scared me. The Rose stuff was terrifying.

14 hours ago, sharifa70 said:

I am really enjoying this show.

Me, too. So far, my favorite new show.

I was wondering if Grandma is up to something bad? And was David implying he too had psychopatic instincts that he overcame by praying and pretendiong to be "normal"?

I felt sorry for the parents. Hope that in their fictional universe the do get away with offing the evil spawn. I watched a doc on psycho kids and it's absolute hell for the parents. And yes, the state does very little to help. I wonder what could be done though - board house for your little psychopath?

11 minutes ago, wellread said:

 For example in this episode, Eric is asked to hold a rosary, which he apparently couldn't do if he were possessed by a demon.  

Eric wasn't possessed, he was a psychopath.

[wellread]

Yes, Eric turned out to be a psychopath, but in the process of deciding what he was, he was asked to hold a rosary.  The implication was that if he refused to hold it, he was possessed by a demon, and, of course, Catholics believe that demons cower at the sight of a rosary!  Or show the show believes!

[Norma Desmond]

1 hour ago, wellread said:

he implication was that if he refused to hold it, he was possessed by a demon, and, of course, Catholics believe that demons cower at the sight of a rosary!  Or show the show believes!

Oh I agree, it's a tired, christian-centric trope.

[Babalooie]

On 10/18/2019 at 10:41 AM, ketchuplover said:

Dear God ...

For the love of you please let there be one demonic possession before this series dies. Thank you

My guess is that it will be in the house - one of the four little girls.  That house has been creepy since the beginning of the series.

[Fable]

I’ve had a hard time warming up to this show, but actually enjoyed this episode.  Unlike some, I don’t mind the kids, and I am intrigued by what is going on with Kristen’s family.  This is the first episode I have found genuinely creepy rather than campy. 

[skotnikov]

This should be on the Disney Channel, or on Freeform. I also hope (in vain) that some evil force will kill the children soon. Although I may not see it.  

Edited October 19, 2019 by skotnikov

[candall]

Ha, I blew the dust off my password and re-upped my ptv membership just so I could say "Huzzah!"  I like this show.

This is a fine level of creepy.  Maybe just a notch or two below the level I had hoped for American Horror Story (which quickly evolved into torture porn run amok.) 

Every week I'm right there with the team:  Demon?  Psycho?  Super. . .natural??  Tasty!

[AnimeMania]

14 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't want to see the kids get killed.  I just want them to go on an extended vacation with their father.  They can take their grandmother with them.  I don't like her at all.

You say: I don't want to see the kids get killed.  I just want them to go on an extended vacation with their father. But, since the father might be on vacation in "Heaven", that would be the same as saying you want the kids to get killed and "They can take their grandmother with them".

[dargosmydaddy]

37 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

The only reason the kids might think their father is in heaven, is because of that stupid game.   Given the way that this series continues to drop so many unresolved issues, I am not holding my breath that we will find out anything about their father anytime soon.

Kristen mentioned an episode or so ago that her husband was supposed to be back in three weeks. Of course something may come up, but you'd think there would be at least some communication as to a delay within the next couple episodes.

Of course, she could have been lying about this, and will just make up excuses when he doesn't appear. Something hinky is definitely going on with their relationship, but I'm not entirely sure how aware Kristen is of this (i.e. He may already be gone for good... maybe not dead, but gone... and she is in heavy denial or just lying for the sake of making her own life easier. Or maybe she really is expecting him back shortly. I don't know.)

[Frozendiva]

The VR headset and games would not be cheap. There is Google Cardboard (what you stick your phone into and use to view VR type websites) and Google Glass. The games would also not be 'free'. You might get some cheap VR for the initial level and there would most likely be some sort of purchase within the game to get the better stuff.  Hence, being 18 or older and having the magic credit card. The level of programming involved for what is in the game must be astounding. And it won't come for $49.99.

Who is the little girl in the game and why does it use a Ouija board? That board is now open and can bring in things that go bump in the night. Someone needs to close it. It is virtual and a lot of people don't believe in it and a lot of people get nothing from playing with one. Again the amount of programming to make it interactive or to come up with something for the players would need to be well-developed. Mom should do a run-through of the game to see what it is. There is fun screaming and not so fun screaming. If she works with the church in terms of exorcisms, the church should take a look at it - more customers may come calling.

And the four kids seem a lot.

Eric was a little creepy. Not enough time to really figure out if he was possessed or just has psychopathic tendencies and will become a Patrick Bateman in his future. His trying to drown his little sister should have had social services/police remove him from his home. The parents do have to live with what they did to their son. And if there was a demon, he can return to another child.

Demons have been around for a long time and probably would not be put off by the sight of a rosary or having to touch one.

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

He very well may end up missing, presumed dead.

Then again, he could be, as was euphemistically put some years back, "hiking the Appalachian Trail" (substitute climbing Everest here). Kristen might be trying to hold that news back, if she actually knows about it, from her kids.

[tennisgurl]

That game was super creepy, as soon as that scary little girl and the Ouija board showed up, I knew there would be trouble! So is the dad really dead? The little girls are still a lot, but I liked them more this week, especially with Ben. "You know when you all speak together, it makes it really hard to understand you?" 

That was a pretty good episode, quite spooky and the ending with the kid was unsettling. No wonder Kristin was so upset, having a kid who is a psychopath, who is endangering your other kids, and then killing your own child, its a whole lot for anyone to handle, especially a mother of four whos partner is abroad. So was the kid possessed, or was he a sociopath? It does seem strange that he apparently went from nice normal kid to murderer so quickly, so maybe something was going on? However, a lot of his behavior seemed to read psychopath and not possessed (although I am not an expert on either!) so who knows? This is one of the times that I think leaving it ambiguous if the kid was mentally ill or under demonic influence really worked and made the whole thing scarier. 

[dargosmydaddy]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

That said, I don't know how she could find the time to get involved with anyone.  She is raising four kids on her own, plus holding down that job of hers.  I doubt she has much time to do anything else.

That brings up a question I had from episode two... could this job really pay as well as working for the DA? Does it come with health benefits (because it doesn't sound like her husband's job would be the type that comes with family coverage...)? The fact that the church was apparently able to match whatever the DA's office was offering sounds really... unlikely... to me. Particularly since her work for them seems fairly low-key and not particularly full time. 

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Does it come with health benefits (because it doesn't sound like her husband's job would be the type that comes with family coverage...)? The fact that the church was apparently able to match whatever the DA's office was offering sounds really... unlikely... to me. Particularly since her work for them seems fairly low-key and not particularly full time. 

The Catholic church is a multi-billion dollar business.  They have plenty of money to pay Krista and provide health insurance for her.

[Katy M]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Her mother-in-law doesn't seem like the most stable person.  She has highly questionable judgement  (giving the kids that game).   I think her mother-in-law would have spilled it if her son (the kids' father) were dead.

I think that's her mother, not her mother-in-law.