S07.E05: Minority Deport

[Meredith Quill]

Quote

Aleida tries to keep her teen daughter out of trouble. Piper and Cal shed their responsibilities for a day. Blanca navigates the legal system.

[Brn2bwild]

A heartbreaking episode.  And shockingly, for the actress who plays Maritza, somewhat based on her real life.

[ShortyMac]

Damn, Maritza!!!!!!!! Seeing her fade away on that plane. Heartbreaking.

Bye, girl. 

Name a better duo than Flaritza. I'll wait. 

I knew Aleida would not be able to stay out of prison. 

[Brn2bwild]

The only silver lining (I haven't seen any episodes beyond this one) is that at least Maritza is fluent in both English and Spanish, which gives her a leg up on a lot of people in her position who grew up knowing only the United States as their home.  She can ask where to use the phone, get access to the Internet, and try to contact her loved ones and the lawyer that way, not that it wouldn't be hard...

[ExplainItAgain]

The final scene on the plane with all the girls disappearing one by one was very powerful. I wonder if this is the last we hear about Maritza. I know she was trying to do good, but damn girl, that was stupid to be so blatant about giving out the number! (I'm still confused about her missing daughter...did the writers forget?)

So, Red seems to be showing early signs of dementia.

No surprise that Aleida's going back to prison. Also, young Aleida didn't look anything like her!

Piper and Cal high was pretty funny - props to them for nailing that scene.

I think the only person whose life has gotten better in prison is Pennsatucky.

[mj2000]

I will never understand how Maritza was able to attend school and gain an ID without ever showing her birth certificate which would have shown that she was not born in the US. That said, her entire ordeal with ICE was heartbreaking. 

Piper and Cal are one of the great sibling relationships. Unlike others, Cal never shunned Piper for having went to prison. He treated her the same. Their "day off" was hilarious and I enjoy them together.

I saw Aleida going back to prison a mile away. Her attitude and her big mouth would eventually get her in trouble again. She was always talking about not having money but I never saw in any part of her backstory that she ever attempted to work. It was always having a man and wanting big dollars by any means necessary. McDonald's would have been a better alternative than prostitution and dealing drugs. But that just wasn't good enough for her.

[Ceindreadh]

8 hours ago, mj2000 said:

I will never understand how Maritza was able to attend school and gain an ID without ever showing her birth certificate which would have shown that she was not born in the US. That said, her entire ordeal with ICE was heartbreaking. 

Piper and Cal are one of the great sibling relationships. Unlike others, Cal never shunned Piper for having went to prison. He treated her the same. Their "day off" was hilarious and I enjoy them together.

I saw Aleida going back to prison a mile away. Her attitude and her big mouth would eventually get her in trouble again. She was always talking about not having money but I never saw in any part of her backstory that she ever attempted to work. It was always having a man and wanting big dollars by any means necessary. McDonald's would have been a better alternative than prostitution and dealing drugs. But that just wasn't good enough for her.

Maritza likely had a fake birth cert which could have been sufficient for a school registration but which wouldn’t pass muster in a proper ICE investigation. 

[Kel Varnsen]

17 hours ago, ExplainItAgain said:

No surprise that Aleida's going back to prison. Also, young Aleida didn't look anything like her!

She didn't. Although I was a little confused how the first flashback was young adult Aleida (who also looked nothing like the real actress) in  a bar dancing with guys for money. Then next flashback it was a little kid stealing liquor. That said the young adult Aleida totally nailed the speech patterns of the real one.

[Blue Plastic]

18 hours ago, ExplainItAgain said:

The final scene on the plane with all the girls disappearing one by one was very powerful. I wonder if this is the last we hear about Maritza. I know she was trying to do good, but damn girl, that was stupid to be so blatant about giving out the number! (I'm still confused about her missing daughter...did the writers forget?)

So, Red seems to be showing early signs of dementia.

No surprise that Aleida's going back to prison. Also, young Aleida didn't look anything like her!

Piper and Cal high was pretty funny - props to them for nailing that scene.

I think the only person whose life has gotten better in prison is Pennsatucky.

Yeah, young Aleida looked NOTHING like current day Aleida.  Like at all.  They seemed to want to use flashbacks to show Aleida became the same kind of shitty mother that she herself was subjected to while growing up, but they needed to find an actress that looked the part at least a little more.

14 hours ago, mj2000 said:

I saw Aleida going back to prison a mile away. Her attitude and her big mouth would eventually get her in trouble again. She was always talking about not having money but I never saw in any part of her backstory that she ever attempted to work. It was always having a man and wanting big dollars by any means necessary. McDonald's would have been a better alternative than prostitution and dealing drugs. But that just wasn't good enough for her.

I actually expected Aleida to go back to prison a lot sooner than she actually did!  IMO it's kind of unlikely she would have been able to avoid it as long as she did, considering that she and her prison guard boyfriend have been smuggling drugs back into the prison for what seems like quite a while now.  Obviously Litchfield didn't do a very thorough search of guard's belongings.  Not sure how much of a search is legal for prison guards to be subjected to in real life.

I do feel some sympathy for Aleida.  She had the deck stacked against her with the horrible upbringing she had to begin with, then trying to stay on the straight and narrow after release.  I think they mentioned in a previous season that she wouldn't get her kids back after release unless she had a job and decent place for them to live, and it would probably be hard for a single mother with no "honest job" qualifications and a prison record to get her kids back on a fast food or similar wage.  She had aptitude at doing nails but not sure if you need to go to school or get a license for that or how hard it is to get a job in that arena or what kind of money is involved.  Maybe it would/could be pretty decent with tips?  I think she tried to do nails but something happened (can't remember what), then fell prey to a multilevel marketing (MLM) scam selling nutritional supplements that nobody wanted.  Then she gave up and went back to what she knew how to do best, sell drugs.

I don't understand what was so horrible about all the "detainees" having the number for free legal aid.  I mean, why did ICE refuse to allow them to call or visit their potential clients?  Obviously with the current Oval Office denizen this kind of shit IS happening at an accelerated rate (yes, Obama detained some and deported A LOT), but the current administration is detaining a lot more.  But legally is it supposed to be allowed to refuse a detainee to get whatever lawyer they can get?  Maritza was reckless, though well intentioned, to pass the number out like candy but I don't get WHY it was such a horrible offense warrenting immediate deportation.

Maybe it's not legal but ICE can just deport because even if it's not legal to do so, the deportee is not going to be around to even file a legal case, much less be able to afford to do so.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Blue Plastic

[Scout Finch]

I've watched every season and although there have been a few heartbreaking moments, this season is really hitting me hard. I think because the other seasons didn't feel so current, they could have happened anytime in the last decade. But knowing that all the things that happened to Blanca and Maritza and Diego are actually occurring every single day RIGHT now, makes the season so much more impactful. I'm up to episode 10 and although it's difficult to watch, for me it's one of the best seasons. And I say this as a mid-50s, cis, Caucasian woman, born in the U.S., who will never have to experience this but my hearts ache for those who do and I am so frustrated that I can't do anything to help them.

[DoctorAtomic]

19 hours ago, ExplainItAgain said:

Piper and Cal high was pretty funny - props to them for nailing that scene.

The actors always play well of one another, and they just never had a lot of scenes together.

Objectively, I find the deportation plot sad but very real. However, I just can't seem to muster any sympathy for Maritza. She shouldn't have been at the club. She was talking to her friend about it earlier how she knew she wasn't supposed to be there and didn't care. Then she said something like, "Why would I need ID to get in anywhere? I'm hot." Well, ok. Now you're gone. If Piper's PO is all over here getting a job, I can't imagine Maritza's isn't too.

I have much more sympathy for Blanca's plight. And Red's for sure. It's actually worse watching the people around her realizing what's going on. I think the best non-speaking was when Nicky was just taking it in and her face totally fell as it dawned on her.

[DrSpaceman]

I just am not liking the ICE storyline

Seems like they are writing it in to try to take advantage of the current headlines and give a very one sided view of things. 

I know the incarceration stories are pretty one sided as well, but the difference is those are at least based on some truth and what the real Piper experienced in her life.  I realize the stories now are fictional, but they have a factual background

The ICE stories are an offshoot that are not based on anything the author knew about personally. 

Yes and I realize there is some truth in what they are saying,  I am not claiming everything they are doing is made up.  But even considering the current headlines, it seems over the top in presentation. 

To me, the writers just seem to be trying to be opportunistic and take advantage of people's emotions over the current political climate. 

Red's storyline I think is the most heartbreaking and realistic.  Someone really did their homework on this one.  The depression and self isolation that comes with dementia is not often presented in stories on TV, but tends to predate even the symptoms of memory loss. 

[Kel Varnsen]

23 hours ago, ExplainItAgain said:

I wonder if this is the last we hear about Maritza.

I hope we see more. One of the hardest things for me to comprehend about any immigration issue is people who get sent back to countries they have never known. Like it is hard to figure out how people even deal with it. Like in her case she will be sent back to a country she has no connection to and no memory of. Wha happens when the plane lands? She has no money and likely no friends/family she can contact for help. And her family in the US has no idea what happened. What does a person like that even do in that situation?

[CrystalBlue]

17 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I hope we see more. One of the hardest things for me to comprehend about any immigration issue is people who get sent back to countries they have never known. Like it is hard to figure out how people even deal with it. Like in her case she will be sent back to a country she has no connection to and no memory of. Wha happens when the plane lands? She has no money and likely no friends/family she can contact for help. And her family in the US has no idea what happened. What does a person like that even do in that situation?

Beg for money on the street until you have the coins to call an abogado.  Maritza would probably just rely on her self-perceived hotness and get by that way.

[kieyra]

7 hours ago, Scout Finch said:

I've watched every season and although there have been a few heartbreaking moments, this season is really hitting me hard. I think because the other seasons didn't feel so current, they could have happened anytime in the last decade. But knowing that all the things that happened to Blanca and Maritza and Diego are actually occurring every single day RIGHT now, makes the season so much more impactful. I'm up to episode 10 and although it's difficult to watch, for me it's one of the best seasons. And I say this as a mid-50s, cis, Caucasian woman, born in the U.S., who will never have to experience this but my hearts ache for those who do and I am so frustrated that I can't do anything to help them.

https://www.crowdrise.com/o/en/campaign/pwf/pousseywashingtonfund

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Before the heartbreak of what happened with Maritza there were quite a few funny moments in the episode. 

Flores saying "like criminals vote for Republicans."

Alex: I'll run to the next Color-Me-Mine and paint a mug with an inspirational quote on it. Maybe something like, "Everything's a dildo if you're brave enough."

McCoullough: I see what you mean about the passive-aggressive thing.

I also liked Sterling Pooper and Mr. CaPOOto! Speaking of...

On 7/27/2019 at 3:35 PM, ShortyMac said:

Name a better duo than Flaritza. I'll wait.

Fig and Caputo!

All I can say about Aleida is at least she got laid before she was sent back to prison.

[foxfreakinmulder]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 12:02 PM, DrSpaceman said:

I just am not liking the ICE storyline

Seems like they are writing it in to try to take advantage of the current headlines and give a very one sided view of things. 

I agree. ICE has been around for years it used to be called INS. My daughter worked as a correctional officer at the county jail back in the early 2000's and she told me the illegals they brought in wore red jumpsuits and were kept separate from general pop except for meals but were treated just like the prisoners. She said they could have visitors and use the phones, (which you don't need money to call out) and hire an attorney have money put on their books etc.. She said they would wake them up as early as 3:30am to be put on a bus and taken to the city for court.

Piper said she drank a bottle of tequila and she was able to find her way home? I hate when a show has people drinking that much and they wake up with just a little headache. I know of a couple of times years ago when I was a drinker I took shots of tequila and to this day don't remember what happened. God only knows what would've happened if I drank a bottle lol.

I like that Piper's brother is there for her and they have a good relationship but that was really stupid of Piper to take that drug and do we know if she's lost the job her dad gave her? She's really blowing it. I can't remember how much time Alex has left to serve but you would think Piper would be trying to make a life for her and Alex once she's released. Instead she's being selfish and making bad choices.  

[DoctorAtomic]

It was my understanding she finished the bottle not drank a full one. That's doable. 

[tennisgurl]

Poor Maritza, that was so terribly heartbreaking. All the girls disappearing on the plane just hit me right in the heart. She has never even been to Columbia, apparently doesn't know people there, has no money, I guess the only plus is that she at least speaks Spanish. Even then though, its just so awful and sad. She and Flaca need to be besties forever!

This season is so depressing, it makes me want to break out my old Battlestar Galactica DVDs for some lighter viewing!

[Rhondinella]

I guess I'm misremembering, because I thought Maritza DIDN'T speak Spanish, or at least not well. Wasn't that established in an earlier season? Or am I confusing her with someone else?

Also, can someone explain to me what was going on with McCullough and the storage unit that seemed to belong to . . . Alex? I guess? That was weird. I must have missed something.

[jsm1125]

30 minutes ago, Rhondinella said:

I guess I'm misremembering, because I thought Maritza DIDN'T speak Spanish, or at least not well. Wasn't that established in an earlier season? Or am I confusing her with someone else?

Also, can someone explain to me what was going on with McCullough and the storage unit that seemed to belong to . . . Alex? I guess? That was weird. I must have missed something.

I think it was Daya who spoke no or little Spanish.

[kitkat343]

On 7/27/2019 at 8:40 PM, mj2000 said:

I will never understand how Maritza was able to attend school and gain an ID without ever showing her birth certificate which would have shown that she was not born in the US. That said, her entire ordeal with ICE was heartbreaking. 

Piper and Cal are one of the great sibling relationships. Unlike others, Cal never shunned Piper for having went to prison. He treated her the same. Their "day off" was hilarious and I enjoy them together.

I saw Aleida going back to prison a mile away. Her attitude and her big mouth would eventually get her in trouble again. She was always talking about not having money but I never saw in any part of her backstory that she ever attempted to work. It was always having a man and wanting big dollars by any means necessary. McDonald's would have been a better alternative than prostitution and dealing drugs. But that just wasn't good enough for her.

Undocumented children have a legal right to a public education until they turn 21. The parents need to prove that they live in the school district, not that any family members have legal residency.  She would have great difficulty getting a drivers license in most states, getting legal employment or paying for college but I’m not entirely certain  based upon her lifestyle that she would have actually done any of those things (not everyone in nyc drives, although most people do need Id, except she probably has never worked and gets into clubs based upon her hotness).  

[RealReality]

On 8/1/2019 at 6:07 PM, tennisgurl said:

Poor Maritza, that was so terribly heartbreaking. All the girls disappearing on the plane just hit me right in the heart. She has never even been to Columbia, apparently doesn't know people there, has no money, I guess the only plus is that she at least speaks Spanish. Even then though, its just so awful and sad. She and Flaca need to be besties forever!

This season is so depressing, it makes me want to break out my old Battlestar Galactica DVDs for some lighter viewing!

Why in the world didn't her mother ever tell her that she isn't really a citizen?  That seems so reckless, IMO.  I think Maritza would have been more careful and she could have married a citizen and applied for citizenship right?  

I mean best case scenario, the basketball player.....but that's a longshot.  But at her age and the fact that she is pretty why not a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant?  She could find one she liked well enough if she had to.

But why didn't her mother ever tell her?  Even if they were estranged.....that's your kid

[DoctorAtomic]

49 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Even if they were estranged.....that's your kid

Since it seemed like it was really hard to find the mother, it's possible they hadn't spoken in a very long time. I didn't think this was the strongest plot, but I could by it. 

[RealReality]

8 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Since it seemed like it was really hard to find the mother, it's possible they hadn't spoken in a very long time. I didn't think this was the strongest plot, but I could by it. 

I suppose it's buyable, and I got the impression that they hadn't spoken in a while too.  But I would have expected the "by the way, be careful you are not a US citizen" talk to have happened a long time ago.   Like in high school at least, why keep it from her at all?

[DoctorAtomic]

Well I guess, how long were they estranged? We, as a country, didn't have these raids until not too long ago, as the show pointed out. 

Also, she did say she had an ID but didn't have it with her, so there wouldn't have been a problem if she did. 

I get what the show was trying to do here, but her plot was rushed, and, for me, she was not really sympathetic. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Well I guess, how long were they estranged? We, as a country, didn't have these raids until not too long ago, as the show pointed out. 

Also, she did say she had an ID but didn't have it with her, so there wouldn't have been a problem if she did. 

I get what the show was trying to do here, but her plot was rushed, and, for me, she was not really sympathetic. 

We didn't have the raids but i remember some actions during the Obama administration so I feel like it's been an issue for a while. 

I just can't imagine what the upside was of never telling her about it when she got to an age where she could understand and keep it secret.

Maritzas story was sad, but not the saddest for sure.  I think the visual of the disappearing women on the plane was haunting, and so much more powerful because we had no idea of how maritzas shook out.  She couldn't even remember her mother's phone number...what in the world is she going to do in a country that is foreign to her?  She knows the language, but that's about it.

[Dobian]

On 7/28/2019 at 7:10 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

She didn't. Although I was a little confused how the first flashback was young adult Aleida (who also looked nothing like the real actress) in  a bar dancing with guys for money. Then next flashback it was a little kid stealing liquor. That said the young adult Aleida totally nailed the speech patterns of the real one.

I think that was the same young Aleida made up to look sexy.  Her mom took her to bars to pimp her out to make money while her deadbeat husband was in prison.  That's why present-day Aleida was so freaked out about her 13-year old daughter hanging out with a 25-year old drug dealer.

[PeterPirate]

I put the responsibility for Maritza's situation on Maritza.  When we saw her mother, she was cleaning an office building to get by.  Maritza did not even know that she did not have a valid Social Security number, meaning she likely never held a job that required one.  I also presume that Mom tried all manner of ways to teach her daughter how to live right, but said daughter realized early on that she could trade on her looks.  It sure wasn't Mom's fault that Maritza went to prison.  

This is not to say that I think this country is better off with Maritza back in Colombia.  In addition to being hot, she has an upbeat personality, she made videos about beauty tips during a prison riot, and she tried to help her fellow detainees.  

Edited August 4, 2019 by PeterPirate

[Dobian]

 

 

 

1

On 7/28/2019 at 12:02 PM, DrSpaceman said:

I just am not liking the ICE storyline

Seems like they are writing it in to try to take advantage of the current headlines and give a very one sided view of things.

True, the show decided to capitalize on the current immigration crisis.  And Nicky's rant early in the episode was factually incorrect all over the place, including her comments about Ellis Island.  But the immigration stories do impact a couple of long-standing characters so they have some relevance, and Maritza's is actually based on the actress' own life.  I can have my own opinions about immigration but still empathize with Blanca and Maritza.

[DangerousMinds]

On 8/2/2019 at 7:09 AM, kitkat343 said:

Undocumented children have a legal right to a public education until they turn 21. The parents need to prove that they live in the school district, not that any family members have legal residency.  She would have great difficulty getting a drivers license in most states, getting legal employment or paying for college but I’m not entirely certain  based upon her lifestyle that she would have actually done any of those things (not everyone in nyc drives, although most people do need Id, except she probably has never worked and gets into clubs based upon her hotness).  

Didn’t she work at a car dealership and as a hostess in a club?

[DrSpaceman]

20 hours ago, RealReality said:

We didn't have the raids but i remember some actions during the Obama administration so I feel like it's been an issue for a while. 

I just can't imagine what the upside was of never telling her about it when she got to an age where she could understand and keep it secret.

Maritzas story was sad, but not the saddest for sure.  I think the visual of the disappearing women on the plane was haunting, and so much more powerful because we had no idea of how maritzas shook out.  She couldn't even remember her mother's phone number...what in the world is she going to do in a country that is foreign to her?  She knows the language, but that's about it.

I do have empathy for Martiza and those who are trying to come to this country for a better life.  The whole system is screwed up and we have two groups of politicians more (which is basically all of them) more interested in power, talking points and using these people as political pawns than they are in actually finding any solution to the problem.

However I would respond to the argument, which I have heard many times, about "What is she going to do in a country she doesn't know?" with the fact that its really no different than when her mom or relatives came to the US, willingly, in many cases.  Why is going back to a country they don't know harder, or different, than coming to the US and not knowing anyone, or the language? 

[RealReality]

23 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

I do have empathy for Martiza and those who are trying to come to this country for a better life.  The whole system is screwed up and we have two groups of politicians more (which is basically all of them) more interested in power, talking points and using these people as political pawns than they are in actually finding any solution to the problem.

However I would respond to the argument, which I have heard many times, about "What is she going to do in a country she doesn't know?" with the fact that its really no different than when her mom or relatives came to the US, willingly, in many cases.  Why is going back to a country they don't know harder, or different, than coming to the US and not knowing anyone, or the language? 

Good question, but I'd guess the preparation.  If you plan on coming to another country you likely have a plan for success, getting a job, etc etc.  You may have some idea of the lay of the land and family members and friends that you can lean on.  Maritza is going to a place where , as far as I can tell, she doesn't know anyone and doesn't have any job prospects.  And in some cases it seems like there aren't a lot of prospects or else their parent would not have left.

I think your point is a good one though.

[AllyB]

26 minutes ago, RealReality said:

And in some cases it seems like there aren't a lot of prospects or else their parent would not have left.

A lot of the time it's a case of the grass just seeming greener. People are chasing an ideal that just won't exist for them. Maritza's mother was cleaning floors in some empty building. Odds are she has terrible wages, no or at least incredibly limited health insurance. I doubt most forms of third level education were a realistic option for her children. Did she live in New York like many of the characters? She probably doesn't have a great home in a great neighbourhood. And for all that nothing, she has lived, a sort of half life not entitled to participate fully in the society she lived in, all under the Sword of Damocles which eventually fell on her daughter.

She could potentially currently have a better standard of living in Columbia. A country which is now classified as Upper-Middle Income and expected to soon meet the Higher Income classification standard. She might have had a harder time in the past if she'd stayed in Colombia, and perhaps she was someone who would have fallen foul of the Farc civil conflict so needed to leave. But if she wasn't, the life she's carved out for herself in the US really doesn't seem like it would have been worth sacrificing so much for.

[RealReality]

7 minutes ago, AllyB said:

A lot of the time it's a case of the grass just seeming greener. People are chasing an ideal that just won't exist for them. Maritza's mother was cleaning floors in some empty building. Odds are she has terrible wages, no or at least incredibly limited health insurance. I doubt most forms of third level education were a realistic option for her children. Did she live in New York like many of the characters? She probably doesn't have a great home in a great neighbourhood. And for all that nothing, she has lived, a sort of half life not entitled to participate fully in the society she lived in, all under the Sword of Damocles which eventually fell on her daughter.

She could potentially currently have a better standard of living in Columbia. A country which is now classified as Upper-Middle Income and expected to soon meet the Higher Income classification standard. She might have had a harder time in the past if she'd stayed in Colombia, and perhaps she was someone who would have fallen foul of the Farc civil conflict so needed to leave. But if she wasn't, the life she's carved out for herself in the US really doesn't seem like it would have been worth sacrificing so much for.

I don't want to get too far into the weeds, but in a lot of countries, even poor countries there are people who are rich or well off.  My dad, for reasons that remain a mystery to me, chose to visit venanzuela even though I can't spell it.  

This was once a fairly wealthy country that has a high rate of poverty.  But he said there were still nice hotels and fresh and good food....and people who were living fairly well.  Rich countries have an underclass and poor countries have an upper class.  

I don't think that people who leave their country to immigrate illegally to another country are those who are socioeconomically middle or upper class.  I think they are broke even by the standards of their home country.  

Working a.crappy janitorial job and having her kids have access to any education and healthcare would perhaps be a big leg up from the life her mother had in Colombia.  Most states, and I imagine a state like NY have some health care options for immigrant children 

Edited August 5, 2019 by RealReality

[Sakura12]

I want to know what happened to Maritza's daughter or did the writers forget about her? 

She speaks English and Spanish that could help her out a lot in Columbia. Of course her looks could cause more trouble for her there. But she was kind of a con artist so she might be able to get by. 

[AllyB]

8 hours ago, RealReality said:

I don't think that people who leave their country to immigrate illegally to another country are those who are socioeconomically middle or upper class.  I think they are broke even by the standards of their home country.  

Working a.crappy janitorial job and having her kids have access to any education and healthcare would perhaps be a big leg up from the life her mother had in Colombia.  Most states, and I imagine a state like NY have some health care options for immigrant children 

Of course poor countries still have wealthy people, that's not what being an Upper-Middle Income economy means. It's an official designation given by the World Bank based on criteria that looks at the functioning of the whole economy. The Colombia Martitza's mother left and the Colombia of today are two completely different places and prospects are utterly different for people. Maritza's mother would almost certainly have a better life now if she had stayed in Colombia because people in Colombia now generally have a much, much better life than poor illegal immigrants in the US. Colombia has world class affordable healthcare for example, at a standard above Canada's never mind the US's. It has free education and university is paid for on a sliding scale depending on your family's income making third level education an option for far, far more diverse a population than it currently is in the US.

Obviously Maritza's mother wasn't to know that her long term prospects would have been better by staying where she was. For all we know her life could have been in danger at the time and she may have needed to leave urgently. Colombia in the 90s would have meant a tough life for most people and moving to the US would have felt like the better move. It's just that as it turns out, it wasn't. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by AllyB

[possibilities]

On 7/28/2019 at 10:54 AM, Blue Plastic said:

I don't understand what was so horrible about all the "detainees" having the number for free legal aid.  I mean, why did ICE refuse to allow them to call or visit their potential clients? 

Any system that is sending babies and young children to court without any kind of legal representation (which is something that is happening in real life) is not concerned with what is fair or legal. This is the reality. There isn't a good reason. It's just a cruel and lawless system at the moment.

I have heard several stories of people whose parents did not tell them they were undocumented until they were adults. I think the idea is that children have trouble keeping secrets. I think Maritza may have been the kind if wild child who left home before her mother had a chance to sit her down and give her the facts.

[RealReality]

3 hours ago, AllyB said:

Of course poor countries still have wealthy people, that's not what being an Upper-Middle Income economy means. It's an official designation given by the World Bank based on criteria that looks at the functioning of the whole economy. The Colombia Martitza's mother left and the Colombia of today are two completely different places and prospects are utterly different for people. Maritza's mother would almost certainly have a better life now if she had stayed in Colombia because people in Colombia now generally have a much, much better life than poor illegal immigrants in the US. Colombia has world class affordable healthcare for example, at a standard above Canada's never mind the US's. It has free education and university is paid for on a sliding scale depending on your family's income making third level education an option for far, far more diverse a population than it currently is in the US.

Obviously Maritza's mother wasn't to know that her long term prospects would have been better by staying where she was. For all we know her life could have been in danger at the time and she may have needed to leave urgently. Colombia in the 90s would have meant a tough life for most people and moving to the US would have felt like the better move. It's just that as it turns out, it wasn't. 

I don't necessarily think a designation by the world bank would have meant a substantially better life and increased opportunities for Maritza or her mother because the underclass and poor in any country still face poor prospects and little chance of upward mobility.  In spite of world bank designations. 

41 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I have heard several stories of people whose parents did not tell them they were undocumented until they were adults. I think the idea is that children have trouble keeping secrets. I think Maritza may have been the kind if wild child who left home before her mother had a chance to sit her down and give her the facts.

This makes sense.  We were never privy as to when Maritza and her mother stopped talking.  

[Stiggs]

20 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I want to know what happened to Maritza's daughter or did the writers forget about her? 

She speaks English and Spanish that could help her out a lot in Columbia. Of course her looks could cause more trouble for her there. But she was kind of a con artist so she might be able to get by. 

I wondered about the daughter the whole time. For a minute I thought, well, maybe it's like Dr. Ross' son from the first season of ER and the writers hoped we never remembered he mentioned him - but Maritza's daughter visited on parents' day, whatever season that was. Yet I don't recall them mentioning the daughter at all this season. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Stiggs

[Absurda]

Quote

I want to know what happened to Maritza's daughter or did the writers forget about her? 

I really don't remember Maritza having a daughter so I guess I'll have to go back and see the parent's day episode because I don't recall a daughter being mentioned in her backstory either.

To me, the Martiza citizenship confusion just didn't make any sense from the beginning.  Not that her mother never told her, just that it had never come up before now.  At the beginning, when she was in the red jumpsuit showing she had a felony conviction I kept thinking:  "She was in Federal prison, clearly they have her criminal record they'd have her citizenship status as well." 

Now that it's reveled that she's not a citizen I can't help but think:  "She was in Federal prison, how did no one clock that she wasn't a citizen or that her SSN was not legit?"

If it weren't for the prison stint, I could totally believe she didn't know.  But, I guess they needed to make the point with a character we know and care about.

I can also believe them removing her for handing out the lawyer number.  For guards on a power trip for whom the law is irrelevant and they just want people to sit quietly, handing out the number could be seen as "trouble making".

The last scene of the women just disappearing was very haunting.

[Sakura12]

She mentioned her daughter a few times during the earlier seasons. Then they forgot that part of her backstory. 

[AllyB]

5 hours ago, RealReality said:

I don't necessarily think a designation by the world bank would have meant a substantially better life and increased opportunities for Maritza or her mother because the underclass and poor in any country still face poor prospects and little chance of upward mobility.  In spite of world bank designations. 

Think it or don't think it but facts are facts. Prospects for the average person in Colombia changed dramatically for the better over the course of Maritza's lifetime. And the odds are significant that Maritiza's mother would be living a better life than the life she lives in America because the average person in Colombia has a better life than the life she has as an undocumented person living on the fringes of society constantly aware that one wrong or unlucky move will remove her from her life. As for the chances of upward mobility for the poor, I'm from a country where university education is free for all, subsidised for those on lower incomes, where people out of work for whatever reason are entitled to a weekly payment that provides a comfortable standard of living and medical care is either heavily subsidised or free depending on your circumstances. It isn't perfect but upward mobility for the poor is unremarkably normal.

[Stiggs]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

She mentioned her daughter a few times during the earlier seasons. Then they forgot that part of her backstory. 

I recently rewatched the first season and she mentions how her daughter is very little and won’t remember her being in prison. They even went so far as having her with the kid on family day. Then no mention. 

[Sakura12]

They did show Maritza not being a good mother, but you'd think she'd still ask about her daughter if she was going to be deported. 

What makes it sadder for me is that happened to actress's real life parents. So that had to be hard for her to think about during this storyline. I've also seen that she's a much better actress then this show allowed her to be. She's amazing Doom Patrol. 

[buttercupia]

I thought it was Maria, not Maritza who has a daughter.

[kieyra]

17 minutes ago, buttercupia said:

I thought it was Maria, not Maritza who has a daughter.

Maritza is also shown with a kid in the S3 'mother's day' episode.

[RunningMarket]

Did anyone else think the disappearing women off the plane meant they had died when they were returned?

It was my first thought and would also explain

Spoiler

why Maritza is never featured again for the rest of the series.

[Hanahope]

On 7/28/2019 at 10:54 AM, Blue Plastic said:

Yeah, young Aleida looked NOTHING like current day Aleida.  Like at all.  They seemed to want to use flashbacks to show Aleida became the same kind of shitty mother that she herself was subjected to while growing up, but they needed to find an actress that looked the part at least a little more.

I actually expected Aleida to go back to prison a lot sooner than she actually did!  IMO it's kind of unlikely she would have been able to avoid it as long as she did, considering that she and her prison guard boyfriend have been smuggling drugs back into the prison for what seems like quite a while now.  Obviously Litchfield didn't do a very thorough search of guard's belongings.  Not sure how much of a search is legal for prison guards to be subjected to in real life.

I do feel some sympathy for Aleida.  She had the deck stacked against her with the horrible upbringing she had to begin with, then trying to stay on the straight and narrow after release.  I think they mentioned in a previous season that she wouldn't get her kids back after release unless she had a job and decent place for them to live, and it would probably be hard for a single mother with no "honest job" qualifications and a prison record to get her kids back on a fast food or similar wage.  She had aptitude at doing nails but not sure if you need to go to school or get a license for that or how hard it is to get a job in that arena or what kind of money is involved.  Maybe it would/could be pretty decent with tips?  I think she tried to do nails but something happened (can't remember what), then fell prey to a multilevel marketing (MLM) scam selling nutritional supplements that nobody wanted.  Then she gave up and went back to what she knew how to do best, sell drugs.

I don't understand what was so horrible about all the "detainees" having the number for free legal aid.  I mean, why did ICE refuse to allow them to call or visit their potential clients?  Obviously with the current Oval Office denizen this kind of shit IS happening at an accelerated rate (yes, Obama detained some and deported A LOT), but the current administration is detaining a lot more.  But legally is it supposed to be allowed to refuse a detainee to get whatever lawyer they can get?  Maritza was reckless, though well intentioned, to pass the number out like candy but I don't get WHY it was such a horrible offense warrenting immediate deportation.

Maybe it's not legal but ICE can just deport because even if it's not legal to do so, the deportee is not going to be around to even file a legal case, much less be able to afford to do so.

The show is suggesting, based on what information we know, that the vast majority of detainees do not have lawyers and are not allowed lawyers.  As shown in the court room scene, unless the woman knew enough to ask for additional time to get a lawyer, the judge would order immediate deportation that day.  So its in our current administration's interest, along with ICE's, to prevent the detainees from getting lawyers by any means possible, which is why the phones need a card that costs a lot of money (which the women don't have in detention) and the card machine is broken anyway.  So when ICE finds out the women have a free number to call that doesn't require a card, they shut if down.

And yes, the show is also suggesting that ICE will facilitate an immediate deportation (likew ith a rubber stamping judge who may not even see or hear from the detainee) of an 'undesirable' detainee, such as one passing out the free lawyer hotline.  Is anyone surprised by this suggestion?

On 8/6/2019 at 2:08 PM, RunningMarket said:

Did anyone else think the disappearing women off the plane meant they had died when they were returned?

It was my first thought and would also explain

  Hide contents

why Maritza is never featured again for the rest of the series.

I don't think she's dead.  I think its just what the show suggests, these women just disappear into central and south america after deportation and no one hears from them again.  Do some die?  Yeah, probably.  But some likely survive.