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S08.E06: The Iron Throne


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No Book Talk. AT ALL.

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9 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

. Also, it is a stretch that no one mentioned in that council that Jon was the heir/king because that should have been taken in account. 

I know.  Especially with Sam's insistence earlier in the season that Jon should be king.  All of a sudden (starting in Ep. 4), he's fine with everything and has no interest in telling anyone anything.  Yet another dramatic moment/possible story thread that went nowhere.

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That wasn't a perfect ending, and I didn't necessarily love all of it, but in the end, it was a satisfying and bittersweet conclusion.

Someone with the ability to see the mistakes of the past and learn from them now rules Westeros.  And not being consumed with ambition or lust for power, stands a good chance of ruling justly.

The characters ended up where they needed to be, both for themselves and for the good of Westeros.

Dany's full evolution into a tyrant was revealed both in that Triumph of the Will-esque address to her army (from whom, exactly,  does Winterfell need to be liberated?  Hmmm . . .) and in her conversation with Jon, which boiled down to it's my way or dracarys for everyone.  That shot of her with Drogon's wings unfurling behind her was absolutely stunning.

Drogon nudging Dany's body, trying to make her get up, kinda broke my heart.  As did Brienne filling in Jaime's pages in the White Book.

The throwback to the chair arranging scene from, I believe, Season 3 amused me very much, but I'm disappointed that I'm never going to hear the end of the ass/honeycomb/brothel story.

Sansa got the free and independent North that she, and I'd say all the other Northerners, wanted.  If the other heads of the noble houses at that council had possessed her sense, they'd have demanded the same before agreeing to Bran being king.  She outsmarted all their asses in the end.

The only thing which really bothered me was the time jump between Drogon flying off with Dany's body and Tyrion waking up in his cell weeks later.  I'd like to have seen how Jon avoided being killed by Grey Worm when his murder of Dany was discovered.  I guess maybe some of his men got to the melted throne room first?

I also noticed something which seems like a gap earlier as well: after confronting Grey Worm while he's executing prisoners, Jon says he's going to see the Queen, but when next we see him, he's climbing those steps lined with Unsullied, and he passes Grey Worm at the top.  Clearly at least a little time has passed, but I wonder what was meant to happen in between.

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59 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The sheer, unmitigated, sloth of it all is just jaw-dropping. Any studio head who would guarantee a mountain of cash to these two lazy asses,  for a future project, ought to be sued by shareholders.

It gets worse. According to Freefolk, Jon petting Ghost was a reused scene from Season 4:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bqqpk3/they_copied_the_ghost_scene_from_a_previous_season/

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(edited)
10 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I know.  Especially with Sam's insistence earlier in the season that Jon should be king.  All of a sudden (starting in Ep. 4), he's fine with everything and has no interest in telling anyone anything.  Yet another dramatic moment/possible story thread that went nowhere.

And Varys was penning letters about Jon's parentage right up to being executed, so one would think the cat would be well out of the bag.

Which is part of the reason I'm still confused about why Jon was imprisoned for killing the Mad Queen while 20 years earlier, everyone was fine with Jamie killing the Mad King. I get that Grey Worm and his army presented a problem, but once they had sailed away after accepting Jon's punishment, why not allow Jon to come back?

Edited by valandsend
autocorrect malfunction
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19 minutes ago, Fiver said:

Or, we liked something you didn't like.

Crazy, I know. 

This x1,000,000.

I didn't particularly care for the ending, but people are allowed to like it without there being something inherently wrong with them or their point of view.  

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12 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I'm disappointed that I'm never going to hear the end of the ass/honeycomb/brothel story.

From somewhere else in the internets...

Tyrion walks into a brothel with a honeycomb and a jackass....

Spoiler

Tyrion walks into a brothel with a honeycomb and a jackass.

Tyrion:  I need a woman to lay with, for mine has left me.
Madame: Whatever for? And what's with the honeycomb and the mule?
Tyrion: My woman found a genie in a bottle, and he granted her three wishes. The first was for a house fit for a queen, so he gave her this damn honeycomb. The second wish was that she have the nicest ass in all the land, so he gave her this damn donkey...
Madame: And what about the third wish?
Tyrion: Well... she asked the genie to make my cock hang down past my knee.
Madame: Well that one's not so bad eh?
Tyrion: Not so bad!? I used to be six foot three!

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2 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I know.  Especially with Sam's insistence earlier in the season that Jon should be king.  All of a sudden (starting in Ep. 4), he's fine with everything and has no interest in telling anyone anything.  Yet another dramatic moment/possible story thread that went nowhere.

They really did muck up Jon being a secret Targ. For something that's the biggest secret in the books, the biggest mystery of all, they totally dropped the ball on it -- in every important step of the tale. The story of Lyanna and Rhaegar is so tragic and mysterious. Why did Lyanna run away with him? How was she okay with splitting up a family? THEY STARTED A WAR! And the TV show reduced this to a single voiceover scene where Jon is fucking his aunt. Then Jon finds out...from Sam. Then Dany finds out and it's all, "HEY, SECRET TARG, YOU BETTER NOT COME FOR MY THRONE." Then Arya and Sansa find out and its...nothing. We didn't even get their reaction! There was little ruminating from Jon about his parentage, nothing about how Ned Stark lied to him.

One other thing I wish is that I wanted more scenes of the four Starks together. I think it would have made more of an impact at the end with them all splitting up again. Like they came together for this purpose and now they're all going off to do their thing. But I think we only had two scenes where it was just the four of them together.

4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

It gets worse. According to Freefolk, Jon petting Ghost was a reused scene from Season 4:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bqqpk3/they_copied_the_ghost_scene_from_a_previous_season/

It's really not the same. They're completely different looking scenes. Maybe it's similar and they reused the Ghost CGI or something, but even in the season 8 scene you can see his missing ear.

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14 hours ago, Drogo said:

Daenerys sure didn't sound "mad" to me. 

Farewell, Mother of Dragons. You will always be my Queen.  

'I am the only one who gets to decide what's right and what isn't' sounds like a tyrant to me.

14 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

My favorite part was when Tyrion - in shackles because of his treason, was allowed to nominate a king and - while IN SHACKLES BECAUSE OF HIS TREASON - was asked to be that king's hand. LOL

Some people really do fail upwards, don't they?

14 hours ago, GSManiac said:

Damn Robin Arryan had a major glow up. Wow. 

I feel really dirty for thinking he was kinda hot.

14 hours ago, Francie said:

Yara: Aye. [To Bran being king]

Sansa: Tens of thousands fell in the Great War defending all of Westeros. And those who survived fought too hard to ever kneel again. The North will remain an independent kingdom as it was for thousands of years. 

Yara:  Wait, on second thought, the Iron Islands were an independent kingdom for thousand of years. In fact, Edmure’s lands belonged to us. Iron Islands will remain ....

Bran and Tyrion: You said “aye.”  No take backs!!

Yup, Sansa was the smartest person in that room.

14 hours ago, Popples said:

So Grey Worm left to go to Naath (aww), but did the Dothraki leave? Because Dany was the only one who could keep them in check.

I did wonder about that.  Who kept both the Dothraki and the Unsullied in check after Dany's death.

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1 hour ago, Smad said:

Is it just me thinking that 3ER will be King for eternity unless someone takes him out for good? They said King's will be voted for now but what if the 3ER changes the game (and he will) so that they only get to vote who will be his next vessel.

I think they want to imply that that big book that Sam brought from Maester Ebrose contains some of the recent histories and that there could be another such book recounting the long-ago history of Westeros as memorized by "Bran the Broken" (eyeroll). That way the 3ER won't need to sentence another unfortunate person to a lifetime of robotic wikipediaizing after he dies.  

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3 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

Well on this one, to be fair, he was weeping over his brother, not Cersei, I think.  His brother he stated was the only one who ever stood up for him in his family

I think he was weeping for both, though he loved Jaime more and will miss him more.  Tyrion and Cersei had a complicated relationship in that Cersei couldn't bring herself to kill Tyrion when he was right in front of her. And they did confide in each other occasionally when you look back at the earlier seasons. The three of them were the only ones who knew what life was like growing up as Tywin Lannister's children. 

 And they are the last of his immediate family.  His nephews and niece are gone. His father. Uncle Kevan.  

There was some guilt involved as well. It was Tyrion's plan that led them down there. Admittedly, if they had been caught, they would have been executed. But still, their exact death was due to trusting in Tyrion's plan. 

In fact, Tyrion was responsible for the death of his niece, by sending her to Dorne and her becoming an assassination target, his father, his brother, his sister, and his best friend.  I think Tyrion recognizes that, too. 

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Just now, proserpina65 said:

'I am the only one who gets to decide what's right and what isn't' sounds like a tyrant to me.

It does.  But that's not what she said. 

She said she and Jon both know what is good, and that they'll make sure the new world is good.  As for those who disagree with their idea of a good world, they don't get to choose. 

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12 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

It gets worse. According to Freefolk, Jon petting Ghost was a reused scene from Season 4:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bqqpk3/they_copied_the_ghost_scene_from_a_previous_season/

That's just plainly hilarious. It's kind of surprising that they just didn't piece together the final season from previous season's outtakes.

If they wanted to do a "Bowfinger" sequel, they could have given Steve Martin and Eddie Murphy cameos. Eddie could obviously have been Greyworm's long lost older, more verbose, brother. Martin would have been perfect as the Wild and Crazy visiting Grand Maester from Old Town.

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43 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

Really doesnt seem like it will be a burden to Bran.

Tyrion: King Bran! The Dothrakis have amassed a new army and are headed back here to destroy us...and it appears Drogon is with them!!

Bran: Who is this Bran you speak of?

OK. I'll be the bait. It'll be fine. Several thousand will die, but I'll just sit here. No big.

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Just now, Drogo said:

It does.  But that's not what she said. 

She said she and Jon both know what is good, and that they'll make sure the new world is good.  As for those who disagree with their idea of a good world, they don't get to choose. 

Which is the same, imo.  She was including Jon at the time, but she'd have eventually decided he didn't get a say either, if he'd disagreed with her.

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4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

But then she wouldn't be QITN.   Yara could have been there but she's probably happier staying on the Iron Islands.  Arya's off exploring and Gilly had already reached her episode quota so that's pretty much it for the living women. 

As for the next step - everyone has to start breeding!  Only Edmure has a kid and everyone else is single (well, except for Sam and possibly the Dornish prince). 

Well perhaps they will find one. Margaery would have fit right in. Too bad. Sam still has a sister?

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Just now, proserpina65 said:

Which is the same, imo.  She was including Jon at the time, but she'd have eventually decided he didn't get a say either, if he'd disagreed with her.

Hard disagree.  She has always held Jon's opinions in high regard, and...

He was screaming at and chastising her moments before she said it and she didn't threaten or silence him.  She spoke to him as an equal partner. 

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There's a lot I could still say about this ending, but the bottom line for me is that despite the road to this finale in season 8 being full of potholes, and a couple of deus ex machina monologues required by Peter Dinklage to explain things that should have been more adquately explained in the chatacter developments and actions, the Iron Throne worked for me.  To put it simply, I can and probably will rewatch this show from start to finish, which I will never do with Lost and Dexter.

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13 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

That wasn't a perfect ending, and I didn't necessarily love all of it, but in the end, it was a satisfying and bittersweet conclusion.

Someone with the ability to see the mistakes of the past and learn from them now rules Westeros.  And not being consumed with ambition or lust for power, stands a good chance of ruling justly.

The characters ended up where they needed to be, both for themselves and for the good of Westeros.

Dany's full evolution into a tyrant was revealed both in that Triumph of the Will-esque address to her army (from whom, exactly,  does Winterfell need to be liberated?  Hmmm . . .) and in her conversation with Jon, which boiled down to it's my way or dracarys for everyone.  That shot of her with Drogon's wings unfurling behind her was absolutely stunning.

Drogon nudging Dany's body, trying to make her get up, kinda broke my heart.  As did Brienne filling in Jaime's pages in the White Book.

The throwback to the chair arranging scene from, I believe, Season 3 amused me very much, but I'm disappointed that I'm never going to hear the end of the ass/honeycomb/brothel story.

Sansa got the free and independent North that she, and I'd say all the other Northerners, wanted.  If the other heads of the noble houses at that council had possessed her sense, they'd have demanded the same before agreeing to Bran being king.  She outsmarted all their asses in the end.

The only thing which really bothered me was the time jump between Drogon flying off with Dany's body and Tyrion waking up in his cell weeks later.  I'd like to have seen how Jon avoided being killed by Grey Worm when his murder of Dany was discovered.  I guess maybe some of his men got to the melted throne room first?

I also noticed something which seems like a gap earlier as well: after confronting Grey Worm while he's executing prisoners, Jon says he's going to see the Queen, but when next we see him, he's climbing those steps lined with Unsullied, and he passes Grey Worm at the top.  Clearly at least a little time has passed, but I wonder what was meant to happen in between.

Totally agree WRT Sansa.  I know people will think she just got what she wanted because nepotism but all the other Lords had the opportunity to declare the same and chose to "aye" instead.

I also loved the scene with the White Book and the fact that Brienne is the first female LC.  I think her entry of Jaime was well done.  Died protecting his Queen may be a very succinct description of what happened but at the time Cersei technically was still queen and Jaime was LC so there you have it.

Again not perfect but it started and ended with Starks.  And Ghost finally got good boy pets.

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35 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I feel for those poor folks who have to listen to BRAN give speeches. Pack a lunch people, cuz those will be ungodly slow and monotone. 

So Drogon gets woke and melts the throne. He was fine torching innocents in the streets, but now he's gonna let Jon live and calmly leave. What the fuck was Jon's plan if Drogon went apeshit and started killing everyone? He had none, of course. 

Bran accepting the throne: "Why do you think I came all this way?!" Oh you, how cheeky, but um, if you knew in advance, maybe you could have given everyone a heads up about the massacre. Just saying.

But if he had warned people about the massacre in advance, then the massacre would not have happened. If no massacre, no need to kill Dany. Then no 3 Eyed Raven on the throne.

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1 hour ago, taurusrose said:

This type of comment is patently unfair and ignores the character's personality completely.  Jon knew in his gut that Daenerys needed to be stopped.  You could see that in every reaction shot he got once she started torching King's Landing.  Tyrion was pushing Jon to take action before it was too late.  He didn't need to convince him that action was needed, only that he needed to do it.  The fact that Jon loved Daenerys and was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt even though his heart of hearts knew she was going against everything he believed in was the thing that made him loathe to act.  And the fact that Daenerys loved Jon and wanted him by her side was the only reason he was able to get close enough to do the job.

Of course you are exactly right. Unfortunately the show runners were unable to convey this with any degree of realism at all. I know this is what they were going for, but I didn’t buy into it for a second.

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22 minutes ago, RealReality said:

This x1,000,000.

I didn't particularly care for the ending, but people are allowed to like it without there being something inherently wrong with them or their point of view.  

I agree. I will never tell someone that they shouldn't like what they like. 

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3 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Hard disagree.  She has always held Jon's opinions in high regard, and...

He was screaming at and chastising her moments before she said it and she didn't threaten or silence him.  She spoke to him as an equal partner. 

That's why Jon had to kill Dany

No one wants a government that's the literal definition of nepotism

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Just now, Constantinople said:

No one wants a government that's the literal definition of nepotism

Unless it's a King who grants independence to the only one of his seven kingdoms ruled by his sister, of course. 

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14 hours ago, Francie said:

Jon:  “It doesn’t feel right.”

Me: You said a lot, bro. You said it all. 

Killing someone should never feel right to a decent person like Jon, no matter how just it might've been.

14 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

You are correct about art.  But this was not art.  

And again, opinions differ.  To many of us, it was art.  Imperfect art, perhaps, but still art.

14 hours ago, Barbara Please said:

Broody Jon gets sent back to the Night's watch as punishment for murdering Dany. When he gets there the wall has magically been restored, and Tormund and Ghost have the hot chocolate and scones ready.

Only part of the Wall was destroyed, the part at Eastwatch by the Sea.  The section at Castle Black, where Jon was sent, was still standing.

14 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

So ... what is Arya going to do? Wander the world and make new people on her kill list?

She's going to explore the unknown part of the world, and her skills will keep her safe.  I'm fine with that.

14 hours ago, Popples said:

Shouldn't Ghost's ear been a bit more healed.

Looked to me like part of it was missing, and that wasn't going to grow back.

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39 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I feel for those poor folks who have to listen to BRAN give speeches. Pack a lunch people, cuz those will be ungodly slow and monotone. 

Bran doesn't seem very interested in giving speeches though. He only says what is necessary. Tyrion can give the speeches. I did find it amusing when Grey Worm told Tyrion something to the effect of "we've had enough of your words!" A little meta there.

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2 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Looked to me like part of it was missing, and that wasn't going to grow back.

I didn't expect it to grow back, it just looked a bit too fresh.

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I don't particularly think Sansa got what she wanted because I secretly think she wanted the iron throne.  I notice that the subject of northern independence did not come up immediately and Sansa was quick to throw up objections to potential candidates.  

It almost felt like she was waiting for someone to throw her name into the mix.  She didn't want to be embarrassed the way she embarrassed edmure so she didn't want to put herself forward, but I think she was hoping someone would suggest her...or that tyrion's "story" was going to be hers.  

It was only when the matter was pretty much settled and it was clear that Sansa wouldnt take the IT that Sansa put forward the notion of northern independence.

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4 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Killing someone should never feel right to a decent person like Jon, no matter how just it might've been.

And again, opinions differ.  To many of us, it was art.  Imperfect art, perhaps, but still art.

Only part of the Wall was destroyed, the part at Eastwatch by the Sea.  The section at Castle Black, where Jon was sent, was still standing.

She's going to explore the unknown part of the world, and her skills will keep her safe.  I'm fine with that.

Looked to me like part of it was missing, and that wasn't going to grow back.

Ghost looks like he fought Mike Tyson's wight.   

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Quote

Tyrion: What's the punishment for regicide? Drawing and quartering? Hanging? Breaking at the wheel?

Jaime: Beheading.

Tyrion: Seems rather ordinary. And he was my nephew as well, so what is that? Fratricide is brothers. Filicide is sons. Nepoticide. That's the one. Matricide, patricide, infanticide, suicide. There's no kind of killing that doesn't have its own word.

Jaime: Cousins.

Tyrion: Cousins, you're right. There is no word for cousin killing. Well done.

We'll need a word for aunt killing now too ("aunticide" is a little awkward)

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(edited)
5 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Did anyone see Daenerys bleed after Jon stabbed her?

I don't recall any blood on or around her?

There was a line of blood from her mouth.

Edited by Dobian
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5 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Did anyone see Daenerys bleed after Jon stabbed her?

I don't recall any blood on or around her?

There was a still reddish brown smear on the floor of the throne room.

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5 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Did anyone see Daenerys bleed after Jon stabbed her?

I don't recall any blood on or around her?

1 minute ago, Dobian said:

There was a line if blood from her mouth.

Thanks

But none coming from her wound?

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1 minute ago, Constantinople said:

Did anyone see Daenerys bleed after Jon stabbed her?

I don't recall any blood on or around her?

Yes, she did bleed. She lost blood from her nose and her mouth.

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(edited)
11 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Did anyone see Daenerys bleed after Jon stabbed her?

I don't recall any blood on or around her?

She bled from her mouth and nose.  The stabbing was weird.  She didn't seem to show any pain.  It was more like a look of "Hey, I've been stabbed through the heart." She didn't cry out in pain or even really whimper, just a lot of short breaths.  

Edited by Bryce Lynch
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8 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Unless it's a King who grants independence to the only one of his seven kingdoms ruled by his sister, of course. 

I believe the joke is that nepotism's root literally refers to granting perks to nephews. 

The only thing I liked about this ep was finally seeing Jon's curly locks out of the manbun again.

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21 minutes ago, Dobian said:

To put it simply, I can and probably will rewatch this show from start to finish, which I will never do with Lost and Dexter.

That's exactly what I said to my son last night.

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(edited)
23 minutes ago, Dobian said:

There's a lot I could still say about this ending, but the bottom line for me is that despite the road to this finale in season 8 being full of potholes, and a couple of deus ex machina monologues required by Peter Dinklage to explain things that should have been more adquately explained in the chatacter developments and actions, the Iron Throne worked for me.  To put it simply, I can and probably will rewatch this show from start to finish, which I will never do with Lost and Dexter.

I have rewatched the show several times before each season started.

But no more, I am done with it in this version.  Might show my son when he gets older, he is too young for it still, but I have had my fill of this series now

Will check out the spinoffs, see how they play out. 

Lost and Dexter lost me WAY before everyone else though.  This is still way better than those two.  I was all in on GOTs till this final season, then kind of limped to the finish.  Lost was thrown together habberdash, just write and toss out everything you can think of and we will see what sticks later, make people think we are deep and witty.  Dexter, after John Lithgow died, I lost interested, was just boring. 

I know how Lost and Dexter end, that's all I need from them

Something like this and say the last season of How I Met Your Mother makes you appreciate the good and great finales.  Even the mediocre ones. 

This final season borders on ruining the whole story. 

VEEP, The Big Bang Theory and GOTs all ended within a week of each other.  VEEP I thought was a rushed final season and finale but probably did the best final episode and story completion. 

Oh and lets not forget House of Cards and that shitfest final season earlier this year.  That was the worst of all I think. 

Edited by DrSpaceman
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(edited)
4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The Seinfeld finale was sub par, but it was a masterpiece compared to GOT's.  

Nah, I love Seinfeld but I'll never re-watch the finale. GoT I can still probably rewatch all the way through again someday.

Edited by VCRTracking
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Why not have Brienne be Master of Whispers instead of Lord Commander of the Kingsguard?

Makes as much sense as a Citadel drop out as Grand Maester, a guy who doesn't understand the concept of interest as Master of Coin, Tyrion as Hand and Bran not-Bran as King

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5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The Seinfeld finale was sub par, but it was a masterpiece compared to GOT's.  

Time has also not changed the perspective on that final either..still crap

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1 minute ago, VCRTracking said:

Nah, I love Seinfeld but I'll never re-watch the finale. GoT I can still probably rewatch all the way through again someday.

I thought the Seinfeld finale was a bit awkward, especially before the trial, but the ending made sense, more sense than GOT anyway and the cameos were fun.  

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Also I find it hard to believe the Dothraki and the Unsullied would just let Bran and that group take over after all they have been through in Westeros.  Outside those two groups, is there any army left to defend Westeros?   Couldn't they just take over and rule themselves?

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