S02.E12: Sanctuary

[TV Anonymous]

Once again, Grayson and Bortus killed with impunity.

[tv-talk]

1 minute ago, TV Anonymous said:

Once again, Grayson and Bortus killed with impunity.

I was assuming everyone involved was working with the "stun" setting. If the notion is that every person shot was killed...then there should be full out war between Moclans and Union for the most part. 

[marceline]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

I'm wondering if Bortus is sticking out this marriage with Klyden just for Topa. Because if they were to separate/divorce (whether via stabbing or whatever), Klyden would leave the ship and, as he's Topa's primary caregiver, would likely take the child back to Moclan where he would grow up with the consensus ideals. As we saw, Topa being integrated with humans is already having an affect where he's learning to socialize with females as equals. Bortus may stick out this marriage to the bitter end just to keep Topa on the ship.

That's a good point but honestly this marriage just seems doomed. I'm trying to think of when they've ever been happy and the only time I can think of is when they were addicted to cigarettes. This episode did kind of make me think about how current politics have torn a lot of relationships apart and if that's something the writers are trying to examine.

[Danielg342]

43 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

So follow your own line of reasoning. If there is a group of people who are not useful to me.  Am I then free to oppress them ?

There is a reason why  various Bills of Rights  all start with "Everyone is equal".  Ie just by existing you have rights.  If people had to prove thier  value in order to have rights we'd be living in a very different society. 

You keep missing my point. No one will change their minds unless they have a reason to do so.

Right now, the Moclans feel that women are useless. The women thus need to be shown that they have a use, and the easiest way to do that is if the women show it to them.

(I grant they don't have to, which I said in my original post, but the task becomes much harder, and the women proving their worth is a better story)

Bill of Rights exists because we, as a society, believe there is a value in each and every one of our existences. We can debate how realistic this is, but that is a separate debate- the philosophical core is that every one of us has value so we ensure that we all preserve each other. Those who oppress do not see the value of those they are oppressing, which is why they do it.

[benteen]

Yeah, Kelly and Bortus blowing away an entire squad of soldiers made the Moclans look weak as hell.  I really wish they had gone down with a few more security guards.  It didn't do the Moclan females any favors either. 

[tv-talk]

28 minutes ago, benteen said:

Yeah, Kelly and Bortus blowing away an entire squad of soldiers made the Moclans look weak as hell.  I really wish they had gone down with a few more security guards.  It didn't do the Moclan females any favors either. 

It's really a common trope I suppose, I mean there are the obvious ST examples like 5'2" Starfleet captain somehow battling a 6'9" Klingon with batliff to almost a draw, but that's no different that LOTR which spends considerable time building up the Urak Hai as genetically modified killing machines yet dozens of whom somehow cant manage to kill 3-4 people. It crosses all genres and suspension of disbelief required! 

[iMonrey]

I kind of wish they had come up with some other name for "Moclans." It always makes me think of that Friends episode where Monica had to invent some kind of recipe for "Mocklate," a sort of fake chocolate. 

[marinw]

6 hours ago, benteen said:

Yeah, Kelly and Bortus blowing away an entire squad of soldiers made the Moclans look weak as hell. 

And don't Moclans have the best weapons, which is why the Union overlooks a lot of problematic things with thier society?

That said, the female Moclanas who fought as well may well have spent years training for such an event. Haveena knew that their hideaway would eventually be discovered and invaded.

Edited April 13, 2019 by marinw

[ajsnaves]

We did not see the whole fight between the Moclan and the colonists, just about 10 seconds when Kelly and Bortus showed up.  Kelly did not leave right away, and they had to get out the tractor beam too.  So the males had been down there for a bit.  It would not surprise me if the resistance folded pretty quickly against actual fighting forces.  Unlike when Ed et al showed up and were taken by suprise and went peacefully.  Once given the chance to fight back, the colonists readily picked up the weapons the tide started to turn.  But, it seems the tide was turning again in the end and the Moclans were starting to get the upper hand.

I’m glad we saw actual debate in the council, and among the admirals.  That is realistic.  I would like to get to know more about the other Union members.  I was surprised how few there appeared to be.

[Ubiquitous]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

It's noted that there are more female births than the Moclan government has let on.  Shouldn't the population know that then?  Or do they all just somehow remained tight-lipped about it.  I could buy that to an extent...they don't want the truth about their kids to be reveled.  But everyone keeping tight-lipped about that is not believable.

I can see it happening if the stigmata were so great that no one admitted it and the stories of females being rare were reinforced. If you had a female child and no one else you knew had one and no one else contradicted you...

[DrScottie]

While watching this, I was thinking of Locar and all the other Moclans like him who are attracted to females. That colony would seem like a great place for them to go.  

[rmontro]

Really good episode.  The announcer on my station said before the episode that "The crew of the Orville faces its biggest challenge yet", or something like that.  I'm pretty sure the two parter with the Kaylons has that distinction.

This clearly clinches that Bortus has completely changed his attitudes about Moclan laws and traditions, from being around his shipmates, if there was any question about it.  His marriage is not looking too good at the moment.

I thought they should have taken Isaac down to the planet to fight off the Moclans, and maybe Talla as well.  It's surprising that the members of the Sanctuary didn't appear to have any weapons of their own.

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I thought they should have taken Isaac down to the planet to fight off the Moclans, and maybe Talla as well.  It's surprising that the members of the Sanctuary didn't appear to have any weapons of their own.

The members of the Sanctuary had Ed and the crew at gunpoint and the poet told one of the women that she could put her weapon down. Presumably, the male Moclans just had them outgunned/outnumbered.

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The members of the Sanctuary had Ed and the crew at gunpoint and the poet told one of the women that she could put her weapon down. Presumably, the male Moclans just had them outgunned/outnumbered.

D'oh!  You're right.

And maybe the element of surprise.

[Morrigan2575]

Really liked this episode, might have ended up as my new favorite. 9 to 5 is a fantastic song, just can't help getting into it. Never pictured it would make for a fantastic fight sequence theme but, it certainly worked. 

I didn't like the last Moclan episode but, I do like that the show continues to explore the theme. I hope Topa can overcome Klyden's prejudice. I keep giving Kylden the benefit of the doubt, that one day he'll admit/see that he's over compensating because he was born female. At the same time, does it really matter? Self-hating or not he's pretty awful. I think Bortus should take a family vacation back to Moclan and then go for a divorce 😁

Marina Sirtis looked really good. Wish we got more of her but, I'll take all the TNG cameos Seth wants to give me.  

[Athena5217]

Has it been established that Mochlans grow fast? I don’t know exactly how much time has past on the show, but’s I don’t think it’s enough for Topa to be so big.

The Mochlan episodes are my favorites.

[SmithW6079]

20 hours ago, Jack Kerouac said:

The Moclans never really made sense to me. There are 'only' males and males can procreate with each other, but there are females as well? Can they procreate with each other? If not, why do the females even exists, in an evolutionary sense?

It would seem to me that if one sex can procreate with other members of that sex, there is no evolutionary need for the other sex.

Was there more gender parity on Moclus in the past and then something happened? It really needs to be explained, because as of now, it makes no sense.

You know what else doesn't make sense? Two Union officers managed to basically take out an entire squad of Moclans with absolutely no trouble at all. That was a tad ridiculous.

The use of Dolly, however, was awesome.

Andy Weir, author of "The Martian," posted on his Facebook page his own fan theory of how the Moclans came to be a single gender.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1993951497370799&id=462962073803090

As for the firefight, totally agree. Not only that, but the ridiculousness that Kelly, a human female, would be able to outmuscle a male Moclan.

At first, when I saw this was a Moclan episode, I said, "Again with the Moclans?" but I was surprised at how enjoyable it was. I especially liked the compromise at the end, because no one side truly won.

As much as I hate Klyden, I think they've made him too one-note.

Edited April 13, 2019 by SmithW6079

[ketose]

9 to 5 has a surprisingly good rhythm for a battle sequence.

I am getting a little tired of them going back to the Moclan well so often.

There was a small shout out to the Retepsians, the blue guys with the super pheromones.

[Yeah No]

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Wow this episode was a real star-studded one. F. Murray Abraham, Ted Danson, Tony Todd - have we seen Marina Sirtis before? I have to say, seeing her looking so old made me feel so very old myself. (She still looks good, she just looks so much older than I remember her.) 

I felt the same way as Marina is only a few years older than me.  We're getting older together.  I was very glad to see her on my screen and was wondering if I ever would again.  Although it was kind of a shock to see her looking so much older as even though I have googled her recently I obviously didn't see more recent photos of her.  Her face hasn't aged as well as I'd hoped.....Then again she is thinner than me so she has that over me. ....Sigh..... We all age differently.  Good for her for agreeing to go on this show and I do hope we see more of her in an expanded role in the future.  It was also great to know that Jonathan Frakes directed this.  I just love all the old TNG cast members coming back.  I suppose I'm hoping for too much that we might see a Patrick Stewart cameo somewhere along the line.

About Bortus and Klyden - I am getting to the point that I hope they divorce.  But don't they have some strange custom in their culture that they have to fight to the death or something like that if they want one?  So it seems like that's not even an option unless one does kill the other, which would be horrible.  But their relationship continues to become more toxic.  It's not even entertaining anymore, just negative.  Perhaps they can make Klyden experience some kind of Epiphany where he changes his stance on things.  That would be better than either alternative.

I was hoping Topa would find out he was once a female, but I'm figuring this is going to happen in the future sometime.  Although I did like this episode in general and do like Bortus's character I'm feeling like we're having a lot of Moclan episodes this season and would like to see more of the other characters featured.  Although the Moclans are pretty entertaining, I will admit.

The Colony leader's face was PRICELESS when she heard Dolly Parton sing.  And her speech in front of that council was very epic and wonderful....Then she breaks out in 9 to 5 lyrics and I broke out laughing.  Excellent!

[mertensia]

9 to 5 was an unexpected pick for the show to use for me. And it worked. Now if only they'd gotten Dabney Coleman to be one of the Moclans. 

[AnimeMania]

Ok, here is my theory on male/female Moclans, there is no difference between them. Moclans are probably hermaphrodites having both male and female sex organs. There is probably two glands that secretes two hormones, one that makes the Moclans smaller, weaker and more "feminine" looking, lets call this Female-Hormone and another we will call Male-Hormone. The ratio of the two hormones determines whether a Moclan is considered "male" or "female". These hormones effects the outward appearance and has no effect on the inner physiology. Because Moclus was a harsh planet, the inhabitants preferred the more rugged "male" individuals over the weaker "female" body type. Removing the gland that secretes the Female-Hormone (the one that makes the Moclans look "female" at birth) gives Moclans the "male" appearance without changing anything else about them internally. I am guessing that  performing the gender transformation surgery on an older female Moclan would make them look "male", but it might take a long time. Giving them the Male-Hormone would probably speed things up.

[Raja]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:46 PM, dwmarch said:

There were some interesting parallels to Star Trek: Insurrection here beyond the presence of F. Murray Abraham. However, speaking of him, I was under the impression he did not enjoy his role in the film. I could be thinking of Malcolm McDowell in 

Bury Tony Todd under a pound of latex headgear all you want, you can't bury that booming voice! Excellent choice to play an angry Moclan leader. I bet Tony Todd could read the phone book and make each number sound absolutely terrifying.

Marina Sirtis!

One of the Union background aliens was wearing a Romulan costume from Star Trek: Nemesis. It had a checkerboard pattern on it, very distinct. There is an article at Memory Alpha that shows it.

I was looking down we he stood up to talk when I heard Kurn , son of Mogh.  Looking closely at all of his appearances I still can't make out Tony Todd from under the Moclan makeup.

21 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Well, there were many, many instances of slaves violently rebelling when they had access to weapons- so rather than expect it it's historical fact. As far as this episode, the Moclan women were initially portrayed as warrior-tough when they captured Kelly and Bortus...however then they were cowering in fear and completely disorganized when being rounded up, until the Union officers rallied them. Why werent the repelling the Moclan men on their own? They seemed to be organized in military fashion earlier in the episode. A better script would have had the Moclan women fighting off attempts to non-lethally subdue them and the high tension being the Moclan captain saying he was going to send additional troops to overwhelm and eradicate them as they would not come peacefully. Kelly and Bortus saving them was too Union-centric for me. 

With their first appearance I was afraid we were going with the Amazon warriors and a Wonder Woman was going to appear.

19 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Once again, Grayson and Bortus killed with impunity.

I think the weapons on stun weakened the story. Especially since nobody changed settings when the Union officers turned up to offer resistance to the Morclans on the ground. That last butt stroke to save the last girl however was potentially a lethal blow. However Moclans are not Klingons and we haven't gotten a good day to die vibe from them so if people were killed the Union civil war might come before season 4.

[legaleagle53]

19 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Once again, Grayson and Bortus killed with impunity.

Would you rather they had BEEN killed "with impunity"? As many have said, the "high moral ground" is meaningless if you're dead.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

I think the weapons on stun weakened the story.

Did we know for sure that the weapons were on stun? 
My daughter texted me a picture of her hand with an engagement ring a minute before the episode began and then called me, 
so I wound up sleep-watching the episode on an iPad Mini at midnight.
  
 

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

Would you rather they had BEEN killed "with impunity"? As many have said, the "high moral ground" is meaningless if you're dead.

I suppose, but if they'd been killed with impunity, they might have made effective martyrs to the cause. 
Or not.
Kelly didn't have much of a dog in the fight--so to speak--other than being a woman,
and I'm not sure if Bortus would have become a shining example of a Moclan who was willing to die for this cause, or more of an example of what happens to "foolish" Moclans who take that non-traditional stance. Probably both, depending upon the viewpoint of the Moclan.

Regardless, they're not going to kill off lead characters--which weakens the fight scene even if the guns weren't on stun, so they might as well have been.

But now I don't recall: What weapons did the Moclans have?

[Raja]

8 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Did we know for sure that the weapons were on stun? 
My daughter texted me a picture of her hand with an engagement ring a minute before the episode began and then called me, 
so I wound up sleep-watching the episode on an iPad Mini at midnight.
  
 

I suppose, but if they'd been killed with impunity, they might have made effective martyrs to the cause. 
Or not.
Kelly didn't have much of a dog in the fight--so to speak--other than being a woman,
and I'm not sure if Bortus would have become a shining example of a Moclan who was willing to die for this cause, or more of an example of what happens to "foolish" Moclans who take that non-traditional stance. Probably both, depending upon the viewpoint of the Moclan.

Regardless, they're not going to kill off lead characters--which weakens the fight scene even if the guns weren't on stun, so they might as well have been.

But now I don't recall: What weapons did the Moclans have?

Functionally they seemed just like the Union weapons. I would say at best like an AK47 compared to a M16. The Moclans leader's weapon however looked more like a combat shotgun.

I just assumed stun because  of human behavior prejudice. If Kelly and Brotus were killing troops the average soldiers mindset would have changed from grabbing girls for conversion surgery to kill those two then deal with the girls. And at least for human soldiers the cease fire doesn’t come that easy.

[iMonrey]

Quote

About Bortus and Klyden - I am getting to the point that I hope they divorce.  But don't they have some strange custom in their culture that they have to fight to the death or something like that if they want one?  So it seems like that's not even an option unless one does kill the other, which would be horrible.  

It was established the only way they can divorce is for one to kill the other. But Klyden has already killed Bortus once (Claire revived him) so maybe it still "counts."

[Ubiquitous]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

About Bortus and Klyden - I am getting to the point that I hope they divorce.  But don't they have some strange custom in their culture that they have to fight to the death or something like that if they want one?  So it seems like that's not even an option unless one does kill the other, which would be horrible.  But their relationship continues to become more toxic.  It's not even entertaining anymore, just negative.  Perhaps they can make Klyden experience some kind of Epiphany where he changes his stance on things.  That would be better than either alternative.

I was hoping Topa would find out he was once a female, but I'm figuring this is going to happen in the future sometime.  Although I did like this episode in general and do like Bortus's character I'm feeling like we're having a lot of Moclan episodes this season and would like to see more of the other characters featured.  Although the Moclans are pretty entertaining, I will admit.

I expected Bortus to spill the beans about Klyden and Topa in response to their attitude when they were discussing what happened in school that day.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

It was established the only way they can divorce is for one to kill the other. But Klyden has already killed Bortus once (Claire revived him) so maybe it still "counts."

Actually, you stab your spouse to signify you want a divorce, which may or may not be fatal. ;-)

[Chaos Theory]

On 4/12/2019 at 2:42 PM, benteen said:

Yeah, Kelly and Bortus blowing away an entire squad of soldiers made the Moclans look weak as hell.  I really wish they had gone down with a few more security guards.  It didn't do the Moclan females any favors either. 

Did you see the same fight I did?   The only thing Bortus and Kelly did was give the females a fair fight.   Soon  as any of The males dropped their guns a female picked it up and joined the fight.  Of this was just Kelly and Bortus fighting a group of Moclan men while the women huddled in fear I would agree with you. That was not the fight I saw

[ketose]

31 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Did you see the same fight I did?   The only thing Bortus and Kelly did was give the females a fair fight.   Soon  as any of The males dropped their guns a female picked it up and joined the fight.  Of this was just Kelly and Bortus fighting a group of Moclan men while the women huddled in fear I would agree with you. That was not the fight I saw

I think the element of surprise was a big factor here. The Orville landed a shuttle right in the middle of the settlement where the women could prepare. The Moclans probably landed some distance away and attacked from multiple directions. Kelly and Bortus attacked from cover while the Moclans were busy rounding up the colonists.

[Dobian]

Klyden is such a tool.  They really need to do something with that character before Bortus divorce murders him.

Ted Danson's admiral is such a spineless bureaucrat.  If the union has to go to war soon, they don't need him making the big decisions.

I liked how in the ship battle scene you can see Gordon making the Orville do these acrobatic moves to avoid being hit.  This is a long way from those lumbering Star Trek battles where you have a Federation Starship and a Klingon Warbird pretty much just sitting there firing at each other until one of them can knock the other's shields down.

The Dolly Parton stuff was hilarious.  That's the kind of thing that makes The Orville distinct from Star Trek.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Dobian

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

The Dolly Parton stuff was hilarious.  That's the kind of thing that makes The Orville distinct from Star Trek.

It's hard to imagine the Enterprise in a combat scene to the tune of 9 to 5.  

Although their last movie had one to the tune of the Beastie Boys' Sabotage, so never say never.

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

I liked how in the ship battle scene you can see Gordon making the Orville do these acrobatic moves to avoid being hit. 

The space battle was fantastic. What I do like is that Gordon is as good of a pilot as Ed said he was. He's shown it several times. There's no way the Orville can take on that class of ship. And they didn't. They took some shots and got out of there. 

I liked this up and down, mainly because of the politics. I said last season that the Union tolerates the Moclans because they need their weaponry, and they flat out said it here. I thought the resolution was obvious, but I get they wanted to drag it out because it's tv. And it gave us a chance to see all the Union representatives. 

So is the Union leadership all military? There's no civilian oversight? 

9 to 5 killed me. I also laughed hard when Admiral Victor said, "eh you know the nebula with the communications" and Ed didn't get it - What are you talking about? We just got a new radio and oohhhhhhh. 

[Ottis]

Ugh. Predictable and cheesy. And not a good sign that Orville is already going back to the well with the Moclan female story. 

And what was the point of Seth’s shitty, snarky remark? “At least you will still be a single sex species.” Why would the Moclan’s assume their planet would be destroyed? They don’t listen to logic. 

This show has become so lightweight it is in danger of floating away. 

[rmontro]

18 minutes ago, Ottis said:

And what was the point of Seth’s shitty, snarky remark? “At least you will still be a single sex species.” Why would the Moclan’s assume their planet would be destroyed? They don’t listen to logic. 

Seth, Er, Ed was calling the Moclans' bluff essentially.  He was saying the Moclans couldn't survive the Kaylons without the Union anymore than the Union could survive without the Moclans. 

I thought it was odd that they listened to this argument, but it's tantamount to them blinking.  The Moclans seem more stubborn than that, so maybe it's just lazy writing.

[Jacks-Son]

On 4/12/2019 at 11:42 AM, benteen said:

Yeah, Kelly and Bortus blowing away an entire squad of soldiers made the Moclans look weak as hell.  I really wish they had gone down with a few more security guards.  It didn't do the Moclan females any favors either. 

Kelly finally got a chance to do her "Mockingbird" act and kick ass.  I liked the episode but, I'm surprised that the Orville just entered airspace without any challenge.  (perhaps those on the planet didn't want to acknowledge their presence) I just can't imagine landing a shuttle without any kind of an attempt to find out what you're blundering into.

Klyden wasn't just being a dick, he looked at Bortus with malice in his eyes.  No softening of his eyes when dealing with his mate.

I would like to have seen how Topa revealed the secret to Klyden.  Did Klyden interrogate Topa?  He said he tried to keep the secret, so what happened?

I've never really watched TNG, but I did recognize Marina Sirtis, and I saw Rona Owen's name in the credits.  Good for her. Everyone else was recognizable, and Kelly Hu is always welcome on my screen, even as China White. ("Arrow")

I'm surprised no one is bringing up the classic Star Trek complaint of why do almost all aliens have humanoid physiology.  I think ENT is the only ST franchise that introduced non-humanoid aliens like the Xindi.

I'm also surprised that Talla did not accompany Bortus and Kelly down to the planet, was the Security Officer always the next in command after Mercer, Kelly, Bortus go off ship? I don't remember Alara sitting in the Captain's chair. I DO remember her being afraid to take command.  I sort of remember Gordon asking someone how it felt to sit in the chair.  Was that Alara?  Did Odo ever have to assume command of DS9?

Edited April 14, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Did Odo ever have to assume command of DS9?

Not that I can recall but then he was not Starfleet which controlled the station nor Bajorian who owned the station and provided Major and  then Colonel (by then also a Starfleet Commander to sooth Cardassian rebels feelings) Kira and other Bajorians as their representative and second in command. 

And being a Changling like the Founders the Klingons and others always kept an eye on Odo waiting for him to turn  back to his people.

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Klyden wasn't just being a dick, he looked at Bortus with malice in his eyes.

Isn't that also known as Resting Moclan Face?

[Jacks-Son]

Thanks Raja for clearing that up.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

He was saying the Moclans couldn't survive the Kaylons without the Union anymore than the Union could survive without the Moclans. 

The Moclans said in a counter that they'd ally with the Krill. The Krill isn't doing that by any stretch of the imagination, and no one was buying that. 

[Ceindreadh]

On 4/12/2019 at 4:16 PM, jmonique said:

So, whatever happened to Lt. Commander LaMarr?

Also, if Bortus hadn't told his child, who was obviously way too young to keep the secret, this entire episode wouldn't have happened. It was irresponsible.

It may have been irresponsible of Bortus to put his child in the position of having to lie to his other parent, but Bortus was trying to teach Topa an important lesson. 

Of course if Topa had kept his mouth shut it would have been a very short episode. 

[ketose]

9 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

I'm surprised no one is bringing up the classic Star Trek complaint of why do almost all aliens have humanoid physiology.  I think ENT is the only ST franchise that introduced non-humanoid aliens like the Xindi.

There's been a couple of non-bipedal species on the ship. There's also Yaphit. And yes, there were green blobs like him on the Union council.

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

It may have been irresponsible of Bortus to put his child in the position of having to lie to his other parent, but Bortus was trying to teach Topa an important lesson. 

Of course if Topa had kept his mouth shut it would have been a very short episode. 

Is it ever okay to tell a kid to lie to a parent?
Maybe when planning a surprise party for the other parent?
Nah. Not even then. 

I guess we were supposed to give Bortus a Stupidity Pass because Topa is his first child? 

In any event, regarding whether or not "if Topa had kept his mouth shut it would have been a very short episode" (@Ceindreadh): 

• [HEVEENA] It was always inevitable that fate would beckon us from the shadows. "Every revolution begins with a single act of defiance."

Even more interesting to me is the following throwaway line from Heveena:

• [KELLY or ED?] One of yours?
• [HEVEENA] Actually, I don't know who said it.

Heveena's line is tossed off as a straight-man joke, but:

Although Googling Haveena's quote does find it listed as being by "unknown," this seems to be a reflection of the anonymity of ad copy writers, because a 1999 Toyota commercial used the line:
"'Every revolution begins with a single act of defiance. We have three,' as it shows the three cars" (Toyota quoted in adage.com). 

Heveena's and Toyota's line was also quoted on Twitter back in 2010, with some oddly current context, which I do not think Seth or this episode's The Orville writer Joe Menosky could have anticipated: 

Edited April 14, 2019 by shapeshifter
TL;DR

[Jacks-Son]

33 minutes ago, ketose said:

There's also Yaphit.

I had forgotten about Yaphit. I don't know if his species was ever mentioned.  He's sort of like Odo was in DS9.  I don't recall seeing more beings like Yaphit, so thank you Ketose. However, the council can meet in a great big assembly hall, all breathing in the same environment.

[ketose]

41 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

I had forgotten about Yaphit. I don't know if his species was ever mentioned.  He's sort of like Odo was in DS9.  I don't recall seeing more beings like Yaphit, so thank you Ketose. However, the council can meet in a great big assembly hall, all breathing in the same environment.

A couple of weeks ago, they mentioned the Envol, who can breathe the same atmosphere, but their blood explodes in the presence of Nitrogen. Luckily, they don't seem to actually be members of the Union.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ketose said:

A couple of weeks ago, they mentioned the Envol, who can breathe the same atmosphere, but their blood explodes in the presence of Nitrogen. Luckily, they don't seem to actually be members of the Union.

Or maybe the Envol always FaceTime/Skype in. Hmmm. Shouldn't they all be doing that? Or perhaps the holographic equivalent?

There was at least one member of the council with either fluffy flowing white hair or headdress that reminded me of the race of powerful pacifists, the Nox, from Stargate SG1 

Edited April 14, 2019 by shapeshifter

[wknt3]

12 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

I'm surprised no one is bringing up the classic Star Trek complaint of why do almost all aliens have humanoid physiology.  I think ENT is the only ST franchise that introduced non-humanoid aliens like the Xindi.

2 hours ago, ketose said:

There's been a couple of non-bipedal species on the ship. There's also Yaphit. And yes, there were green blobs like him on the Union council.

I think the reason there hasn't been as many complaints is that the show has done a great job of bringing in alien looking aliens on a regular basis for minor and background roles, and not just humans with a few bumps or different ears. I've actually been really impressed with what they've done on a TV budget. I think that it also helps that the show is designed in part as a meta-commentary and examination of other shows and nobody involved is making public claims of scientific accuracy so the audience is willing to cut them a little more slack.

[rmontro]

19 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Kelly finally got a chance to do her "Mockingbird" act and kick ass.  

Ha!  I even yelled at the TV:  "C'mon, Mockingbird!".

[Jacks-Son]

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

Ha!  I even yelled at the TV:  "C'mon, Mockingbird!".

I knew she would come out when I saw her staring at that overbearing & rude, Moclan Captain.  Too bad she didn't have her batons; she's deadly with those. Seriously miss her and Hunter.

Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Bobbi Morse (Mockingbird) Fight Scenes| Season 2 Ep. 5-21

Edited April 15, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[North of Eden]

During the first 15 minutes, I was ready to slag this episode for dipping into the moclan/female/baby well again, but as the episode went on and the ramifications built, I enjoyed it more.

With that said to do the writer's hate, Lamar? We've had three Issac episodes, two (OMG I am blacking out the guy with the beard's name) back to back no less and umpteen Bortus episodes and there hasn't been one Lamar centric episode this season. He makes Travis Mayweather of ENTERPRISE seem like a leading man when you compare the two when it comes to screen time and episodes revolving around them...so you know that is bad because Mayweather was a walking/taking prop.

Of course, Klyden narced to the crew...someone want to hurry up and space himout in an airlock.

Lastly, consider the ball dropped with Isacc. There has been zero follow up about how the crew feels having someone indirectly responsible for the deaths of their fellow crew and union members sitting on the bridge as if nothing happened.

[Danielg342]

56 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

(OMG I am blacking out the guy with the beard's name)

Gordon Malloy.