S08.E01: Winterfell

[BitterApple]

3 minutes ago, Lillith said:

Add me to the list of those who find Dany's behavior arrogant. She's setting herself up for a fall. So far her attitude is bend the knee or I'll burn you. Exactly what Jon Snow warned her against. Sansa is being practical in this case. And in questioning Jon's motives.

Poor Sam, that was such a sad scene. Perfectly acted. And I think Dany has made another enemy. 

Definite flirtage between Arya and Gendry curious to see where that goes.

Bron will betray Cersei right? He loves the Lannister boys!

I guess Jamie thought Bran was dead? 

I wonder if Sansa fears Jon will turn into Robb 2.0, i.e., throwing everything away and screwing his own people over to get into the drawers of an attractive woman. Jon doesn't seem to be considering how this entire shebang looks to the Northerners.

[FemmyV]

3 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I sense this becoming a meme.

Then you should put some words on it. Get to the task!

[LadyChaos]

4 minutes ago, Leroux said:

I felt for Sam, what a horrible way to learn of his brother's fate. I think at some point he was even trying to justify his father's death and said that "now that my brother of the lord, I might be able to visit again" just to learn that his brother was turned into crispy bacon as well. 

That is the moment Sam realized that Daenerys for all her beautiful exterior would not be any different from any power-hungry ruler that has come before her. She will break the wheel alright, she will create a new one made to her own specifications. 

This is why I think she is a conquerer, but not a ruler. 

[kieyra]

I only remember one instance of a character mentioning that Sansa was smart (Arya), as opposed to “everyone”. But I sure did relish that moment and all the ragetears it would cause.

[easypeasy]

2 minutes ago, Lillith said:

Add me to the list of those who find Dany's behavior arrogant. She's setting herself up for a fall...

I sure hope so. 

Jamie: :o

Bran: 

Where the fuck was Ghost?

[Auntie Anxiety]

I missed Brienne. Love that character.

The opening credits were all sorts of fantastic.

[LadyChaos]

Just now, easypeasy said:

Where the fuck was Ghost?

WHERE IS GHOST DAMMIT????

[kieyra]

CG money is only for dragons, not wolves. 😕

[bmoore4026]

Well, saving Yara sure seemed like a handwave, didn't it?  At this point, I'm hoping The Kraken just ups and eats the entire Iron Islands in one gulp with all of them on it.

Cersei seemed disappointed that only 20,000 Gold Company men came.  Banging what was essentially a pirate was icing on a disappointment cake, I think.

And, like losing The Night's Watch, Jon is losing The North.  God, I hope he doesn't become king.

The whole Dany and Jon kissing thing made me want to clean myself with chicken feet.  But, now that the truth is in the air, that'll probably stop.

Edited April 19, 2019 by bmoore4026

[The Companion]

I loved that the beginning of the episode basically told us: the world has shrunk and everything is consolidated. Things went down from a relationship standpoint, and I am here for it. 

I agree Danerys was floundering a bit, and I actually think that was a good choice. She can't steamroll everyone. She has to change her approach. 

I loved Sansa's unimpressed reaction to things. I am here for snarky Sansa.

Cersei was pretty boring tonight. Not going to lie that I am petty and therefore glad she didn't get her elephants.

[Mya Stone]

2 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I missed Brienne. Love that character.

The opening credits were all sorts of fantastic.

I think my favorite little part of the opening credits was that dragon skull under the Red Keep. 

[Growsonwalls]

I'm wondering if Jon wll even tell Dany. I feel like so much of Dany's self-belief right now is wrapped up in the fact that Jon is her consort. Finding out that he's the actual rightful heir would set her off in a way I'm not sure Jon will be able to handle.

[kieyra]

Just now, The Companion said:

I loved that the beginning of the episode basically told us: the world has shrunk and everything is consolidated. Things went down from a relationship standpoint, and I am here for it. 

I agree Danerys was floundering a bit, and I actually think that was a good choice. She can't steamroll everyone. She has to change her approach. 

I loved Sansa's unimpressed reaction to things. I am here for snarky Sansa.

Cersei was pretty boring tonight. Not going to lie that I am petty and therefore glad she didn't get her elephants.

I think Cersei being boring now is a direct result of the writing being subpar in this season (and the previous one). OG Cersei would have murdered Euron with much better-chosen words.

And wouldn’t have banged him. 

[Advance35]

And Dany let someone of less power (Sansa) goad her into a PR blunder.

Sansa: What do Dragons even eat?

Dany: Whatever they want.

If I'm in attendance, I'm looking at the crazy b&^ch with dragons and thinking, someone is going to slay the Night King and BOTH Mad Queens right?

Dany shouldn't assume everyone is going to get her subtext.  But she's not use to having to work for anything so that kind of behavior was in-character for her.

[Jaded Sapphire]

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

She knows better than to trust Cersei which is more than we can say for Tyrion at the moment. I mean seriously, where have all his alleged brains gone?

I really hate the way they've written Tyrion lately. I think the only thing that could save this were if Cersei isn't pregnant at all - she just used the idea of it to play Tyrion and Jaime.

[Leroux]

I was also disappointed in Jon's reaction to Sam's news about his family

WTF JON? I know that he has had to execute people, that some of his decisions have lead people to death, but this is your "brother" Sam, your best friend who is crying because he found out his brother had died a horrible death and you are still defending Daenerys? to his face? 

I hate when the hypocrisy is so blatant, wasn't Jon Snow who not only a season ago warned Dany about using her dragons and burning people and how if she did that, then she was no different from other megalomaniac rulers? and now that he is in love with her he is willing to justify all her actions? 

A nice, strong hug and some words of comfort for Sam would not have killed him. After he was calmed maybe try to justify or at least make him understand that right now was not the moment to create conflicts. 

I hate that the north/Starks/anyone who is not Daenerys basically has to shut their mouths and have no right to express their feelings at all just not to irritate the "Queen" because she might pack her toys and let them die.  It sucks!!

[tennisgurl]

Plot twist: Everyone decides to give Bran the Iron Throne, just so he stops starring at everyone and creeping them out. 

[The Companion]

3 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I think Cersei being boring now is a direct result of the writing being subpar in this season (and the previous one). OG Cersei would have murdered Euron with much better-chosen words.

And wouldn’t have banged him. 

I thought she banged him to get some plausible deniability on her baby daddy. 

[MVFrostsMyPie]

9 minutes ago, easypeasy said:

Where the fuck was Ghost?

Along with Cersei's elephants, they couldn't afford the CGI for Ghost after Jonny boy went on his dragon thrill-ride to show his aunty where he used to hunt.

[catrice2]

Am I the only one who was bored and a little bit let down?  

[QuinnM]

21 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

EIGHT FUCKING YEARS WAITING FOR THIS ARYA AND JON SCENE. EIGHT FUCKING YEARS!!!

I would just like to take a moment to say that I feel the same and have really spent quality time wondering why I was so invested in this.  I’ve decided it was such an authentic moment from the actors in the scene.  So high five to them because the two of them made this what we all wanted to see for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS.

[Kanner]

I am pretty neutral toward Dany though I do think she is generally a good person. I loved her snark tonight. The smirk when the dragons first flew over. I saw it as a combo of pride at her children and a take that you side-eyeing ungrateful people. I LOVED here whatever they want answer to Sansa's extremely rude question. That was just uncalled for. I just wish they went about showing Sansa's displeasure in a different way. What kind of host acts this way to her guests?

Is Dany acting entitled? Yes. But just about everyone else is too. This is a world of entitlement. Sansa shows the same amount of entitlement about Winterfell and the Starks as the ruling house of the North. And Sam as much as I love Jon, he doesn't get points for giving up his title for his people. He didn't want it in the first place and he was raised a bastard, he didn't expect to have that sort of power.

Oh Tyrion. When Sansa comes across as the logical smart one, you know you have hit rock bottom. I don't get his thought process toward Cersei. Hopefully, he doesn't come up with another idea like his stupid wight hunt idea.

Arya must not know a lot of people. how smart can Sansa be that smart when she doesnt realize more fighting men and dragons are a good thing against the dead. 

The next episode is going to be crazy. Jaime is here! Will Jon tell Dany? Her reaction.

[kieyra]

Just now, The Companion said:

I thought she banged him to get some plausible deniability on her baby daddy. 

Aw, shit. I think you’re probably right. After all, there were observers to their exit to the bedchambers and all. 

[AimingforYoko]

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

Plot twist: Everyone decides to give Bran the Iron Throne, just so he stops starring at everyone and creeping them out. 

I love the way he just cut to the chase with Dany, "Your dragon, he's his now."

[Lemuria]

17 minutes ago, Lillith said:

Sansa is being practical in this case. And in questioning Jon's motives.

Question his "motives?"  If she thinks that Jon does not have the welfare of the North (and all of the living people in Westeros) first and foremost in his mind, and behind his choices, then she's a flaming idiot.  (Which goes along with something I've noticed with other shows as well:  as soon as the show goes out of its way to verbally assure us that X, Y or Z is really, really smart, it's a sure sign that character will act like a horse's patoot during the episode.)

Whether he respects Dany and appreciates her coming to help them only or whether he does that and he's come to love her, it doesn't change the reasons he went to her in the first place or the help that she can bring to the fight.  Dany's coming to Winterfell will not increase Jon's power or wealth or position.  There no "motives" for her to question.

And the person who acts as if she would reject two armies and two dragons in a massive fight against an army of the dead is hardly being "practical."  Sansa's proving the truth behind that quote in a recent article, with either LC or GC (I can't remember which) talking about Sansa's "irrepressible ambition and desire to rule." 

Maybe it's Sansa's motives we should be questioning.

[Susan79]

Does anyone know what it was Arya was asking Gendry to make?  It kind of looked like a dragonglass spear but it comes apart?

[MVFrostsMyPie]

7 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I'm wondering if Jon wll even tell Dany. I feel like so much of Dany's self-belief right now is wrapped up in the fact that Jon is her consort. Finding out that he's the actual rightful heir would set her off in a way I'm not sure Jon will be able to handle.

She'd bend his third leg and turn it into a knee.

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, Kanner said:

I am pretty neutral toward Dany though I do think she is generally a good person. I loved her snark tonight. The smirk when the dragons first flew over. I saw it as a combo of pride at her children and a take that you side-eyeing ungrateful people. I LOVED here whatever they want answer to Sansa's extremely rude question. That was just uncalled for. I just wish they went about showing Sansa's displeasure in a different way. What kind of host acts this way to her guests?

Dany's not presenting herself as a guest though. She's presenting herself as the Queen of the North, no and's if's or but's.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

1 minute ago, Lemuria said:

Question his "motives?"  If she thinks that Jon does not have the welfare of the North (and all of the living people in Westeros) first and foremost in his mind,

I don't know, it seems that Dany's vagina is first and foremost in his mind, currently.

[enoughcats]

11 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Jon doesn't seem to be considering how this entire shebang looks to the Northerners.

Seldom does a relatively obscure word fit the situation so well.

[ICantDoThatDave]

2 minutes ago, Susan79 said:

Does anyone know what it was Arya was asking Gendry to make?  It kind of looked like a dragonglass spear but it comes apart?

I freeze-framed it and it looks like a short spear which can eject the tip as a projectile. Presumably made of dragonglass.

[kieyra]

2 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I don't know, it seems that Dany's vagina is first and foremost in his mind, currently.

And between that and Tyrion getting bamboozled by Cersei, it’s no wonder Sansa is so completely over it.

[rmontro]

I hate to complain because that episode was so awesome, but the good stuff was obvious, so I will just say it:

I don't like the way they're writing Daenerys to be a bad queen now.  Yes, she's always been haughty and entitled, but she freed the slaves, and tried to be just and fair, and protect the weak.  Her story (IMO) has been what's really kept this show going all along - people wanted to see the dragons, and what they could do.  Now at the last moment, we're supposed to root against her?  I don't like it.

But that's just a quibble, because like I sad, it was an awesome episode.  Jaime has some serious issues with some of the people there, maybe he shouldn't have come lol.

[The Companion]

5 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Aw, shit. I think you’re probably right. After all, there were observers to their exit to the bedchambers and all. 

She did still take out a hit on her brothers, lest you worry she is becoming too much of a softie. 

[LadyChaos]

5 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Question his "motives?"  If she thinks that Jon does not have the welfare of the North (and all of the living people in Westeros) first and foremost in his mind, and behind his choices, then she's a flaming idiot.  (Which goes along with something I've noticed with other shows as well:  as soon as the show goes out of its way to verbally assure us that X, Y or Z is really, really smart, it's a sure sign that character will act like a horse's patoot during the episode.)

Whether he respects Dany and appreciates her coming to help them only or whether he does that and he's come to love her, it doesn't change the reasons he went to her in the first place or the help that she can bring to the fight.  Dany's coming to Winterfell will not increase Jon's power or wealth or position.  There no "motives" for her to question.

And the person who acts as if she would reject two armies and two dragons in a massive fight against an army of the dead is hardly being "practical."  Sansa's proving the truth behind that quote in a recent article, with either LC or GC (I can't remember which) talking about Sansa's "irrepressible ambition and desire to rule." 

Maybe it's Sansa's motives we should be questioning.

Not to mention, she told Jon she trusts him, but her actions dictate otherwise.

[kieyra]

I don’t usually lay down predictions because I’m bad at it, but hopefully Arya’s dragon glass mystery weapon will be used to kill zombie Cersei (after Jamie kills human Cersei). 

Just a thought.

[Lillith]

1 minute ago, LadyChaos said:

Not to mention, she told Jon she trusts him, but her actions dictate otherwise.

I don't think Sansa trusts anyone at this point. Which will probably also have unfortunate consequences. 

[Lemuria]

1 minute ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I don't know, it seems that Dany's vagina is first and foremost in his mind, currently.

We'll have to disagree. 

I guess you agree with Sansa that Dany's not bringing anything to the table that the North needs.  Sansa acts as if she really has no idea what they're facing and doesn't really want to know.  Of course, since D&D like her so much that she probably won't suffer the fate that that kind of attitude should usually bring about.

Why on earth, BTW, should I ever believe that someone acting this stupidly and openly antagonistically toward the armies she needs to survive, is savvy about anything?

[dirtypop90]

Glad to be back!

I LOVED Sansa this episode.  Her scenes with Tyrion and Jon were highlights for me.  Jon and Sansa scenes just have great energy and I love their dynamic.

I’m glad the parentage reveal happened the first ep.  We don’t have any time to drag things out anymore.  It was a bit underwhelming because I feel nothing re Jon/Danny —I don’t think they have a lick of chemistry—so I don’t feel bad for them that they’re related, even though the show wants us to.

Was Dany about to threaten Sansa to Jon already???  

Very interesting lines between Arya and Jon about family loyalty: Arya - Sansa is just looking out for her family.  Jon - I’m her family too. Arya - Don’t forget that.  Jon will have to choose between Starks and Targs?

I wonder if Jon will tell Sansa and Arya?  I don’t expect him to tell Dany, but weirdly I think Sansa and Arya deserve to know since Bran and Sam do.

[Leroux]

20 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I wonder if Sansa fears Jon will turn into Robb 2.0, i.e., throwing everything away and screwing his own people over to get into the drawers of an attractive woman. Jon doesn't seem to be considering how this entire shebang looks to the Northerners.

Exactly, this 1000!!

It was bad enough that he bent the knee without asking anybody about it, but let's say for the sake of the argument that he needed to do that to secure the army and the dragons. 

The fact that she had sex with her only complicates things because now the question that Sansa asked is completely relevant, "Did you bend the knee to protect the north or because you love her? why even put himself in that position when he knows there is a massive war coming, couldn't he/they have waited a little longer just as to not rub it in everyone's face? 

The north remembers that Rob lost the north when he decided to follow his heart rather than duty, who can blame them if they think that this is Rob 2.0 move? If they are mad about Jon bending the knee can you imagine what would their reaction be when they find out they are a couple and he is a Targaryen too? 

[CletusMusashi]

I can't believe it took me until tonight to see the resemblance between the iron throne and the dragon faces.

[FormerMod-a1]

5 minutes ago, Leroux said:

The north remembers that Rob lost the north when he decided to follow his heart rather than duty, who can blame them if they think that this is Rob 2.0 move?

The woman he fell in love with didn't have all the armies nor 2 dragons.  Big difference.

[felicity porter]

Quote

I don't like the way they're writing Daenerys to be a bad queen now.  Yes, she's always been haughty and entitled, but she freed the slaves, and tried to be just and fair, and protect the weak.  Her story (IMO) has been what's really kept this show going all along - people wanted to see the dragons, and what they could do.  Now at the last moment, we're supposed to root against her?  I don't like it.

Given a man power and he will show you who he really is.  Or in this case, a woman.

After rewatching the series, I've really come to realize how arrogant Dany has always been.  I just think we had much worse characters to focus on - Joffrey, Cersei, etc.  But with them dead or humbled, Dany's arrogance is a lot harder to hide.

[Ottis]

51 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Is it me or does it seem like Dany's character is taking on a bit of a nasty edge? Her smirky face watching the dragons fly into Winterfell, the comment about Sansa must respect her as Queen and Bran's lack of enthusiasm makes me think we're being set up to watch an epic downfall. Or maybe Jon will have to assert himself as the true King and eventually battle it out with her.

She’s always had a nasty edge. And the show flirts with the explanation that it is in her genes (madness). There was even a line this ep where someone said, “She’s not like her father. “ I wonder if she will crash and burn in the end. So to speak. 

I didn’t get the part where Arya said Sansa was the smartest person she knows. Sansa has largely blundered through this series. Yes, she has learned and grown, but man has she done it the hard way. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Ottis

[nilyank]

1 minute ago, aquarian1 said:

The woman he fell in love with didn't have all the armies nor 2 dragons.  Big difference.

But what if Dany and Jon had a falling out e.g. she is not legitimate heir to the throne, and she decides to take her armies and dragons elsewhere.

[ParadoxLost]

13 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I don't like the way they're writing Daenerys to be a bad queen now.  Yes, she's always been haughty and entitled, but she freed the slaves, and tried to be just and fair, and protect the weak.  Her story (IMO) has been what's really kept this show going all along - people wanted to see the dragons, and what they could do.  Now at the last moment, we're supposed to root against her?  I don't like it.

It feels like they switched Dany's character last season when she expected Jon to bend the knee based on nothing but her lineage and Tyrion started fretting about her BBQ tendencies.

But I also wonder how true that is. Or is it just that this is the first time the people she  is demanding bend to her rule are not slavers and are characters the audience is sympathetic to or outright prefer to Dany.

I think given Dany's history, the idea that there is male Targaryen with a stronger claim on the throne and was chosen to rule by the North is going to go over really badly.

[AimingforYoko]

Just now, nilyank said:

and she decides to take her armies and dragons elsewhere.

She may be arrogant, but she's not Cersei. Besides, she owes the Night King. Personally.

[cambridgeguy]

Jon to Sansa - Do you have any faith in me at all?

The entire North, poking their heads in - NOPE!

[Kanner]

18 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Dany's not presenting herself as a guest though. She's presenting herself as the Queen of the North, no and's if's or but's.

Correct me if I am wrong. Sansa may not like it, even I may not like it but the King bent the knee to her. That means she is the Queen, right? Isn't that how this world works? Why would she be expected to act differently? Either way, it is still a silly way for Sansa to act.  I am completely fine with her not being happy about the situation but to openly antagonistic doesn't smart to me.

[Growsonwalls]

5 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

She may be arrogant, but she's not Cersei. Besides, she owes the Night King. Personally.

Actually Cersei is cruel but she's also incredibly consistent in a way Dany isn't. That I think might give Cersei the edge ultimately -- she has a plan, she executes it, and she doesn't look back.