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S08.E01: Winterfell


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Sniping about the opinions of other members, whether individually or en masse, violates our Golden: Be Civil rule. This includes telling others to "stop talking about 'X'". Please keep your comments to the episode only.

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Well, saving Yara sure seemed like a handwave, didn't it?  At this point, I'm hoping The Kraken just ups and eats the entire Iron Islands in one gulp with all of them on it.

Cersei seemed disappointed that only 20,000 Gold Company men came.  Banging what was essentially a pirate was icing on a disappointment cake, I think.

And, like losing The Night's Watch, Jon is losing The North.  God, I hope he doesn't become king.

The whole Dany and Jon kissing thing made me want to clean myself with chicken feet.  But, now that the truth is in the air, that'll probably stop.

Edited by bmoore4026
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2 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I missed Brienne. Love that character.

The opening credits were all sorts of fantastic.

I think my favorite little part of the opening credits was that dragon skull under the Red Keep. 

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I'm wondering if Jon wll even tell Dany. I feel like so much of Dany's self-belief right now is wrapped up in the fact that Jon is her consort. Finding out that he's the actual rightful heir would set her off in a way I'm not sure Jon will be able to handle.

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Just now, The Companion said:

I loved that the beginning of the episode basically told us: the world has shrunk and everything is consolidated. Things went down from a relationship standpoint, and I am here for it. 

I agree Danerys was floundering a bit, and I actually think that was a good choice. She can't steamroll everyone. She has to change her approach. 

I loved Sansa's unimpressed reaction to things. I am here for snarky Sansa.

Cersei was pretty boring tonight. Not going to lie that I am petty and therefore glad she didn't get her elephants.

I think Cersei being boring now is a direct result of the writing being subpar in this season (and the previous one). OG Cersei would have murdered Euron with much better-chosen words.

And wouldn’t have banged him. 

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And Dany let someone of less power (Sansa) goad her into a PR blunder.

Sansa: What do Dragons even eat?

Dany: Whatever they want.

If I'm in attendance, I'm looking at the crazy b&^ch with dragons and thinking, someone is going to slay the Night King and BOTH Mad Queens right?

Dany shouldn't assume everyone is going to get her subtext.  But she's not use to having to work for anything so that kind of behavior was in-character for her.

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10 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

She knows better than to trust Cersei which is more than we can say for Tyrion at the moment. I mean seriously, where have all his alleged brains gone?

I really hate the way they've written Tyrion lately. I think the only thing that could save this were if Cersei isn't pregnant at all - she just used the idea of it to play Tyrion and Jaime.

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21 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

EIGHT FUCKING YEARS WAITING FOR THIS ARYA AND JON SCENE. EIGHT FUCKING YEARS!!!

I would just like to take a moment to say that I feel the same and have really spent quality time wondering why I was so invested in this.  I’ve decided it was such an authentic moment from the actors in the scene.  So high five to them because the two of them made this what we all wanted to see for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS.

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Just now, The Companion said:

I thought she banged him to get some plausible deniability on her baby daddy. 

Aw, shit. I think you’re probably right. After all, there were observers to their exit to the bedchambers and all. 

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1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

Plot twist: Everyone decides to give Bran the Iron Throne, just so he stops starring at everyone and creeping them out. 

I love the way he just cut to the chase with Dany, "Your dragon, he's his now."

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7 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I'm wondering if Jon wll even tell Dany. I feel like so much of Dany's self-belief right now is wrapped up in the fact that Jon is her consort. Finding out that he's the actual rightful heir would set her off in a way I'm not sure Jon will be able to handle.

She'd bend his third leg and turn it into a knee.

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1 minute ago, Kanner said:

I am pretty neutral toward Dany though I do think she is generally a good person. I loved her snark tonight. The smirk when the dragons first flew over. I saw it as a combo of pride at her children and a take that you side-eyeing ungrateful people. I LOVED here whatever they want answer to Sansa's extremely rude question. That was just uncalled for. I just wish they went about showing Sansa's displeasure in a different way. What kind of host acts this way to her guests?

Dany's not presenting herself as a guest though. She's presenting herself as the Queen of the North, no and's if's or but's.

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1 minute ago, Lemuria said:

Question his "motives?"  If she thinks that Jon does not have the welfare of the North (and all of the living people in Westeros) first and foremost in his mind,

I don't know, it seems that Dany's vagina is first and foremost in his mind, currently.

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2 minutes ago, Susan79 said:

Does anyone know what it was Arya was asking Gendry to make?  It kind of looked like a dragonglass spear but it comes apart?

I freeze-framed it and it looks like a short spear which can eject the tip as a projectile. Presumably made of dragonglass.

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2 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I don't know, it seems that Dany's vagina is first and foremost in his mind, currently.

And between that and Tyrion getting bamboozled by Cersei, it’s no wonder Sansa is so completely over it.

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I hate to complain because that episode was so awesome, but the good stuff was obvious, so I will just say it:

I don't like the way they're writing Daenerys to be a bad queen now.  Yes, she's always been haughty and entitled, but she freed the slaves, and tried to be just and fair, and protect the weak.  Her story (IMO) has been what's really kept this show going all along - people wanted to see the dragons, and what they could do.  Now at the last moment, we're supposed to root against her?  I don't like it.

But that's just a quibble, because like I sad, it was an awesome episode.  Jaime has some serious issues with some of the people there, maybe he shouldn't have come lol.

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5 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Aw, shit. I think you’re probably right. After all, there were observers to their exit to the bedchambers and all. 

She did still take out a hit on her brothers, lest you worry she is becoming too much of a softie. 

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5 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Question his "motives?"  If she thinks that Jon does not have the welfare of the North (and all of the living people in Westeros) first and foremost in his mind, and behind his choices, then she's a flaming idiot.  (Which goes along with something I've noticed with other shows as well:  as soon as the show goes out of its way to verbally assure us that X, Y or Z is really, really smart, it's a sure sign that character will act like a horse's patoot during the episode.)

Whether he respects Dany and appreciates her coming to help them only or whether he does that and he's come to love her, it doesn't change the reasons he went to her in the first place or the help that she can bring to the fight.  Dany's coming to Winterfell will not increase Jon's power or wealth or position.  There no "motives" for her to question.

And the person who acts as if she would reject two armies and two dragons in a massive fight against an army of the dead is hardly being "practical."  Sansa's proving the truth behind that quote in a recent article, with either LC or GC (I can't remember which) talking about Sansa's "irrepressible ambition and desire to rule." 

Maybe it's Sansa's motives we should be questioning.

Not to mention, she told Jon she trusts him, but her actions dictate otherwise.

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I don’t usually lay down predictions because I’m bad at it, but hopefully Arya’s dragon glass mystery weapon will be used to kill zombie Cersei (after Jamie kills human Cersei). 

Just a thought.

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1 minute ago, LadyChaos said:

Not to mention, she told Jon she trusts him, but her actions dictate otherwise.

I don't think Sansa trusts anyone at this point. Which will probably also have unfortunate consequences. 

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1 minute ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I don't know, it seems that Dany's vagina is first and foremost in his mind, currently.

We'll have to disagree. 

I guess you agree with Sansa that Dany's not bringing anything to the table that the North needs.  Sansa acts as if she really has no idea what they're facing and doesn't really want to know.  Of course, since D&D like her so much that she probably won't suffer the fate that that kind of attitude should usually bring about.

Why on earth, BTW, should I ever believe that someone acting this stupidly and openly antagonistically toward the armies she needs to survive, is savvy about anything?

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Glad to be back!

I LOVED Sansa this episode.  Her scenes with Tyrion and Jon were highlights for me.  Jon and Sansa scenes just have great energy and I love their dynamic.

I’m glad the parentage reveal happened the first ep.  We don’t have any time to drag things out anymore.  It was a bit underwhelming because I feel nothing re Jon/Danny —I don’t think they have a lick of chemistry—so I don’t feel bad for them that they’re related, even though the show wants us to.

Was Dany about to threaten Sansa to Jon already???  

Very interesting lines between Arya and Jon about family loyalty: Arya - Sansa is just looking out for her family.  Jon - I’m her family too. Arya - Don’t forget that.  Jon will have to choose between Starks and Targs?

I wonder if Jon will tell Sansa and Arya?  I don’t expect him to tell Dany, but weirdly I think Sansa and Arya deserve to know since Bran and Sam do.

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5 minutes ago, Leroux said:

The north remembers that Rob lost the north when he decided to follow his heart rather than duty, who can blame them if they think that this is Rob 2.0 move?

The woman he fell in love with didn't have all the armies nor 2 dragons.  Big difference.

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Quote

I don't like the way they're writing Daenerys to be a bad queen now.  Yes, she's always been haughty and entitled, but she freed the slaves, and tried to be just and fair, and protect the weak.  Her story (IMO) has been what's really kept this show going all along - people wanted to see the dragons, and what they could do.  Now at the last moment, we're supposed to root against her?  I don't like it.

Given a man power and he will show you who he really is.  Or in this case, a woman.

After rewatching the series, I've really come to realize how arrogant Dany has always been.  I just think we had much worse characters to focus on - Joffrey, Cersei, etc.  But with them dead or humbled, Dany's arrogance is a lot harder to hide.

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51 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Is it me or does it seem like Dany's character is taking on a bit of a nasty edge? Her smirky face watching the dragons fly into Winterfell, the comment about Sansa must respect her as Queen and Bran's lack of enthusiasm makes me think we're being set up to watch an epic downfall. Or maybe Jon will have to assert himself as the true King and eventually battle it out with her.

She’s always had a nasty edge. And the show flirts with the explanation that it is in her genes (madness). There was even a line this ep where someone said, “She’s not like her father. “ I wonder if she will crash and burn in the end. So to speak. 

I didn’t get the part where Arya said Sansa was the smartest person she knows. Sansa has largely blundered through this series. Yes, she has learned and grown, but man has she done it the hard way. 

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1 minute ago, aquarian1 said:

The woman he fell in love with didn't have all the armies nor 2 dragons.  Big difference.

But what if Dany and Jon had a falling out e.g. she is not legitimate heir to the throne, and she decides to take her armies and dragons elsewhere.

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13 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I don't like the way they're writing Daenerys to be a bad queen now.  Yes, she's always been haughty and entitled, but she freed the slaves, and tried to be just and fair, and protect the weak.  Her story (IMO) has been what's really kept this show going all along - people wanted to see the dragons, and what they could do.  Now at the last moment, we're supposed to root against her?  I don't like it.

It feels like they switched Dany's character last season when she expected Jon to bend the knee based on nothing but her lineage and Tyrion started fretting about her BBQ tendencies.

But I also wonder how true that is. Or is it just that this is the first time the people she  is demanding bend to her rule are not slavers and are characters the audience is sympathetic to or outright prefer to Dany.

I think given Dany's history, the idea that there is male Targaryen with a stronger claim on the throne and was chosen to rule by the North is going to go over really badly.

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18 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Dany's not presenting herself as a guest though. She's presenting herself as the Queen of the North, no and's if's or but's.

Correct me if I am wrong. Sansa may not like it, even I may not like it but the King bent the knee to her. That means she is the Queen, right? Isn't that how this world works? Why would she be expected to act differently? Either way, it is still a silly way for Sansa to act.  I am completely fine with her not being happy about the situation but to openly antagonistic doesn't smart to me.

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5 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

She may be arrogant, but she's not Cersei. Besides, she owes the Night King. Personally.

Actually Cersei is cruel but she's also incredibly consistent in a way Dany isn't. That I think might give Cersei the edge ultimately -- she has a plan, she executes it, and she doesn't look back. 

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