Extra Hot Great

[Corgi-ears]

Point of order: if the Pierce of a show isn't necessarily a character one dislikes and want gone, but ultimately just its least essential character whose expunction would either not make any difference or possibly improve the show, does that imply that every show has a Pierce? Just by virtue of the fact that no or few shows ever has characters of equal importance? I mean, are there any shows without Pierces, and why?

[Qoass]

I will always remember Neil Sedaka theme night on American Idol because guest judge Sedaka described Kimberly Locke's performance as "earlicious".  I will never un-hear that.  *shudder*

[Joseph Finn]

I tried "Why?" because so many people speak highly of Burress, and I just couldn't as well. But then, I'm not

Wait...I got a Cloud Car for Christmas. But then, I'm also the weird kid who had the Death Star compacter set and loved it. It had foam "garbage" cubes!

[ApathyMonger]

I've never seen Grey Gardens, but I still enjoyed the Documentary Now! episode. They have a Thin Blue Line parody coming up in a few weeks though, so I might finally watch that documentary before watching.

 

I suspect the Italy 1958 Eurovision song was supposed to be a trick entry; it's a well known song, but people usually know Dean Martin's cover or Gipsy Kings' cover, rather than the Eurovision original:

 

 

It was also covered by Sam Beckett in one of my favourite Quantum Leap episodes:

 

[Joseph Finn]

And Sarah, I remember not especially liking that episode of X-Files at the time but your defense of it has me planning to go back and check it out again (also, how much I love Jesse Martin on Flash).

[smrou]

It feels weird to say this as a big-time X-Phile, but I actually disagree with the acceptance of "The Unnatural" into the canon. I think Sarah's description of it as not being very substantial but being a nice bittersweet story about baseball is dead on, actually. I basically consider it to be a lovely and entertaining episode of...something. But that something isn't really The X-Files. Mulder and Scully are barely in it and not at all connected to the actual x-file. Scully is out of character (I like the attempt to explain it as weekend behavior but I don't buy it). The actually alien story is as likely as not just a fairy tale made up by bizarro Arthur Dales. It just doesn't really fit with the show, imo. And I say that as someone who really likes the lighter episodes. Having said all that, I still really enjoyed listening to the submission and discussion. And I know from my many years of discussing the show online that my opinion is a minority one.

Also, I want to back up Tara on the Beverly Hills vs. 90210 issue. Because the thing is, when people (by which I mean me and my sisters/friends/peers) talk about the show we always call it "90210". Never "Beverly Hills" and rarely-if-ever "Beverly Hills 90210". Just "90210". That's what it's called, as far as I'm concerned.

[David T. Cole]

Smrou is fired.

...I mean, are there any shows without Pierces, and why?

THE PIERCE: The character you can lift out of a show and drop in an active volcano without changing the show much and maybe improving it in the process

[beNGK]

One of the key points of the TWD zombie mythology is that everyone is infected, apparently all at once, or over some period of time. But you don't turn until dead or bit obviously.

This happened pre-FTWD timeline (one assumes, given that Cal turned when killed) so _nowhere_is_safe_ (insert scary music flourish). So controlling the spread isn't going to help as much as it could because how it spreads isn't obvious until someone figures out that everyone is infected and acts accordingly. This wasn't explicitly revealed until TWD end season one at the CDC IIRC.

[LAFR]

With regards to the cannon submission I've never heard silent rage expressed so loudly before.

[profreader]

That Game Time was fantastic -- the categories alone made me laugh. I hadn't seen this episode of the X-Files -- I'm not sure why I missed it, as I was a fairly die-hard viewer until Mulder left. (I actually have an X-Files ep that I've been considering for the canon -- can a show have too many eps in the canon? I guess we'll see...)

I recently re-listened to an older ep which was one of the first to feature Liv's Face Off reports -- it's amazing to realize how much she's grown up just by the sound of her voice. Awwww.

[Dave in Chicago]

Gene is totally the Pierce, for reasons Dave already outlined. Tina and Louise both have clear personalities, Gene just has general enthusiasm. I see the function of having a character vaguely defined enough that they can be plugged into any plot, but I don't think it's necessary.

[Lisin]

Sarah, if you're interested there's a series of books by Mira Grant called "Feed" "Deadline" and "Blackout" (collectively the Newsflesh trilogy) that are set 20 years after the zombie apocalypse and are really centered around the way Social Media reacted during the original outbreak and how media has been reacting/treated since. It's a great series for anyone who likes the zombie genre. (I am not Mira Grant). 

 

I always thought Jessie L. Martin was cast perfectly because his smile is just so great and he just exuded such joy in that part I will never forget it! I don't like baseball at all but I love this episode so much. 

 

Also props to that game time! It was so much fun!

[SnideAsides]

You should have seen the questions that didn't make the cut. There were a lot of little things - a Seinfeld cast member right before Marisa Tomei in the Simpsons round; the wrong Smallville answers being themed (Zephyr, Scorch, Crack, Frozen = wind, fire, earth, water); the final question of the Eurovision round - I did just to amuse myself.

 

I suspect the Italy 1958 Eurovision song was supposed to be a trick entry; it's a well known song, but people usually know Dean Martin's cover or Gipsy Kings' cover, rather than the Eurovision original:

Yes. Weirdly, that was the only category where it was easier to find realistic wrong answers than fake-sounding real answers.

 

I think I'm just going to leave these here for shits and giggles (not necessarily in that order):

Swedish boob song (The best part? You can tell the singers know exactly what they're saying)

Alleged-English UK entry (which Europe hated so much they didn't score a single point, I can't imagine why)
German vagina innuendo
Terminal 3 (Trust me, if you haven't heard it before, I can pretty much guarantee you didn't imagine it correctly)
Norway's non-committal love song
"La lalala lalala lalala, la lalala lalala-ah, la lalala lalala lalala, la lalala lalala"

 

And to kill two birds with one stone, here are Ivana Trump and Stephanie Beacham (whom you may also remember from her hilariously fake reaction shots during Dynasty's balcony cliffhanger) together on Celebrity Big Brother.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Loved the Game Time, SnideAsides! 

[David T. Cole]

Yeah, that's not what I imagined at all. Sorta Live At Let Die adjacent-adjacent.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kl5ZEOufvY

[Edna Crandall]

Point of order: if the Pierce of a show isn't necessarily a character one dislikes and want gone, but ultimately just its least essential character whose expunction would either not make any difference or possibly improve the show, does that imply that every show has a Pierce? Just by virtue of the fact that no or few shows ever has characters of equal importance? I mean, are there any shows without Pierces, and why?

Yes, I think if you're going to argue that Gene (or whoever) isn't the Pierce you have to come up with a substitute Pierce. And if you can't come up with an argument for why another character is less essential than Gene, he's the Pierce for sure. 

[David T. Cole]

I don't think every show has a Pierce. It's not the least essential character, it's the one the show could chug along just fine without them around. So I don't think you need to argue someone else as the Pierce if you are saying X is not a Pierce.

[Corgi-ears]

So a Pierce is inessential, but not necessarily the least inessential  -- it's not a competition. So third- or fourth-billed characters are not necessarily Pierces as long as they have a clear-cut or even stereotypical function. Breaking Bad, to fish-in-a-barrel-it, has no Pierces since even the minor characters serve structural, narrative, thematic functions. The Mindy Project, on the other hand, is chockfull of Pierces because the writers don't know what they're doing -- they frame someone as the office love interest, or the office wacko, and then introduce twenty more characters that serve the same functions. They are Pierces because their functions are interchangeable. Or let's take -- evilly, since I know he's Dave's favourite 30 Rock character -- Pete Hornberger. He was meant to be something like the straight man, the male platonic friend for Liz, but Jack quite quickly usurped that role. During that stretch, Pete was a Pierce, though the show did course-correct and started making him wackier, saving him (somewhat) from Piercehood?

 

But if we then go back to Gene, it wouldn't be clear to me that he fits the definition of a Pierce. I get that he is least sharply defined -- he is the one who is game for anything, so the writers can make him carry any plot line. But can't we argue that that is in and of itself a function? You can't give the talking toilet plot to Tina and Louise in the same way (is that the argument?), so even if Gene is a kind of catch-all character, isn't that a role he and only he plays?

 

Yay, brain pain.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Corgi-ears

[Actionmage]

Liv may astound her teachers this year when she goes back to class! *g* (In the good way.) After the Medieval Times potatoes and the NF/Dora body mash-up, though, I am excited to hear how the coming episodes have inspired Liv.

 

The Game Time had me laughing so much I didn't so much play along as laugh and guess how the majority of the answers were supposed to go. It was fun!  When I heard Stephanie Beecham, though, I remembered her as Sable ( or Caress?) on Dynasty, iirc. She was Alexis' sister?  Then again, she was on S1 of seaquest DSV .

[purist]

Oh, SnideAsides, you are EVIL making Dave try to pronounce 'Raxacoricofallapatorius' when you know perfectly well he has trouble with getting his mouth around hard ones. (That's what she said.)

 

I must confess I did laugh at Dave's mispronunciation of 'Volare', though. Hee!

[SnideAsides]

True, but at least I didn't make Dave read Eurovision lyrics in Slovenian.

[John Potts]

Tara, your bitching at Dave absolutely reminded me of brother/sister bickering I might have had with my sister... far too many years ago. As for Game time, as soon as Dave started saying "Raxicor....." I was filling in "...fallipotorious!" (it's where the farting aliens "The Slitheen" com from). Then again, I am a massive Whovian (or "Who-er", as somebody on this site suggested).

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Dave (I think) made the point that the X-Files MotW episodes, which this is a variation on, are the ones that hold up the best over time. So, while "The Unnatural" is perhaps not quintessential, it IS typical of the sorts of X-Files episodes you want to rewatch, the ones that don't date. I can see the other point of view, but it's not like Scully isn't in it at all or that the M isn't from outer space.

[Primetimer]

Shows from other countries that need importing.

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[Joseph Finn]

Omar After Dark, coming to HBO in 2016.

[lefawn]

I really like Gene and wouldn't want to lose him as a character on Bob's Burgers but I will admit that he's the Pierce. If Eugene Mirman ever had laryngitis and had to miss recording a couple of episodes, a quick "Gene's spending a couple of days in Florida with Grandma" explanation and the show carries on without him. Anybody else in the Belcher family and the entire balance would be thrown off.

[April Bloodgate]

So a Pierce is inessential, but not necessarily the least inessential  -- it's not a competition. So third- or fourth-billed characters are not necessarily Pierces as long as they have a clear-cut or even stereotypical function. Breaking Bad, to fish-in-a-barrel-it, has no Pierces since even the minor characters serve structural, narrative, thematic functions. The Mindy Project, on the other hand, is chockfull of Pierces because the writers don't know what they're doing -- they frame someone as the office love interest, or the office wacko, and then introduce twenty more characters that serve the same functions. They are Pierces because their functions are interchangeable. Or let's take -- evilly, since I know he's Dave's favourite 30 Rock character -- Pete Hornberger. He was meant to be something like the straight man, the male platonic friend for Liz, but Jack quite quickly usurped that role. During that stretch, Pete was a Pierce, though the show did course-correct and started making him wackier, saving him (somewhat) from Piercehood?

 

But if we then go back to Gene, it wouldn't be clear to me that he fits the definition of a Pierce. I get that he is least sharply defined -- he is the one who is game for anything, so the writers can make him carry any plot line. But can't we argue that that is in and of itself a function? You can't give the talking toilet plot to Tina and Louise in the same way (is that the argument?), so even if Gene is a kind of catch-all character, isn't that a role he and only he plays?

 

Yay, brain pain.

I think the trouble with using Pierce Hawthorne as the namesake for "the Pierce" is that he's so horrible and unlikable that it's hard to grasp that "the Pierce" isn't necessarily a character you hate.

 

Also, based on all that Dave has said and the above explanation, I don't understand why the Pierce used to be called the Tobias. He adds so much comedic value with jokes that couldn't be used on anyone else and he has a clear personality/POV. I think he certainly adds a lot more to the show (both in comedy and story) than, say, Lindsay.

[Trip]

Love the idea of a UK "Genius". People often ask me why there hasn't been a US "Genius", and I point out that the US version would probably feature Coolio and Paula Poundstone. (It is fun to fantasy-cast US "Genius" though: Rachel Maddow, Aisha Tyler, NPH ...)

[tita]

Not for nothing, but Bon Cop, Bad Cop is actually pretty funny. Colm Feore (the bon cop) and Patrick Huard (le bad cop) are well-cast and likeable. It deals in a shit tonne (sorry, not sorry) of stupid cliches,and it's kinda dumb, but it doesn't take itself seriously at all.

And it features a fabulous scene where Huard conjugates, with several physical examples, a ridiculously long list of the ways to use various Quebecois curses like "hostie," "tabarnac," and "calice."

I have a strange soft spot for the swears of Quebec, so I find it delightful.

[Carrie Ann]

I think the trouble with using Pierce Hawthorne as the namesake for "the Pierce" is that he's so horrible and unlikable that it's hard to grasp that "the Pierce" isn't necessarily a character you hate.

 

Also, based on all that Dave has said and the above explanation, I don't understand why the Pierce used to be called the Tobias. He adds so much comedic value with jokes that couldn't be used on anyone else and he has a clear personality/POV. I think he certainly adds a lot more to the show (both in comedy and story) than, say, Lindsay.

 

 

Well, I think the Pierce is, by nature, pretty subjective. You can have arguments for or against, like with Gene, but it's going to come down to what you as an individual viewer find crucial to your enjoyment of a show. For me, Lindsay is more crucial than Tobias, particularly because of her interactions with Lucille and Maeby.

 

I think it might actually be harder to come up with a show without a Pierce--if you eliminate shows like The X-Files, Sherlock, etc., that have essentially two leads and everyone else is very supporting.

[raymond]

In case anybody still cares, the Nonac theme is a performance by the Portsmouth Sinfonia, and according to Wikipedia, the rule for the orchestra is that you either must be a non-musician, or (disputed) be a musician playing an instrument you've never played before.

[Racj82]

Well, I think the Pierce is, by nature, pretty subjective. You can have arguments for or against, like with Gene, but it's going to come down to what you as an individual viewer find crucial to your enjoyment of a show. For me, Lindsay is more crucial than Tobias, particularly because of her interactions with Lucille and Maeby.

I think it might actually be harder to come up with a show without a Pierce--if you eliminate shows like The X-Files, Sherlock, etc., that have essentially two leads and everyone else is very supporting.

For a long time, Winston was the Pierce of New Girl. Honestly, I think he still is but the actor has done so well with what was given that I wouldn't want him removed. Could the show, from a writing standpoint still go on. Of course.

[Will Holston]

MISFITS! An MTV version of Misfits would fit in nicely with Teen Wolf or Scream, even though the potential for awfulness would be high.

[Omar G.]

Omar After Dark, coming to HBO in 2016.

I could make that watchable, probably.

[Omar G.]

You should have seen the questions that didn't make the cut. There were a lot of little things - a Seinfeld cast member right before Marisa Tomei in the Simpsons round; the wrong Smallville answers being themed (Zephyr, Scorch, Crack, Frozen = wind, fire, earth, water); the final question of the Eurovision round - I did just to amuse myself.

 

 

You are an evil genius, friend.

[Primetimer]

Rob Hartmann's Extra Credit likes to call it "Lost Wages."

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[profreader]

That was hilarious. Coincidentally... I have actually stayed overnight in the Lizzie Borden house (it was a b&b at the time, about ten years ago... not sure if it still is.) There was a last minute cancellation so we got booked into the guest room -- that was the room where Mrs. Borden was found. It's supposedly the most haunted room.

 

I bought the gigantic book that they have for sale which collates every known fact about the murder (which makes a pretty good case for LB not being the killer -- but that's another story.) Stayed up reading, nothing ghost-y. Went to sleep. 

 

Ordinarily our dog (Boston terrier) would be a little restless at about five in the morning, and would walk from one side of the bed to the other. I came out of sleep feeling the dog walking around, followed by the realization that, no, we didn't bring the dog. I was AWAKE then but with my eyes still closed. I could feel pressure in spots along the side of the bed -- just like if a small dog or cat was stepping on it -- or if someone were tucking the sheets in, like they were making the bed with you still in it. The tucking started near my feet... moving up the side of the bed ... it got to about my hips and I opened my eyes. Nothing.

 

I got up to go take a shower (the bathroom was the next door down the hall.) When I came back, I told my now-ex that the bathroom was free, if he wanted to take a shower. He opened his eyes and said, I thought you were here the whole time. He felt me (or someone) lying on top of the covers next to him. He was still halfway asleep and was irritated that I was doing it, because he hates to feel pinned down like that. Ooooo.

 

At breakfast, we learned that those were fairly common for that room. They had had reports of more dramatic things happening (shoes getting tossed around etc) but this was creepy enough. One thing that a woman who worked there told me which I found interesting was -- in the moment of something happening (someone touching you from behind, seeing someone, hearing a voice), it all seems perfectly normal. It's only when you realize that no one is there that you are creeped out...

[deangirl]

Person I would trust as a GPS: either boys from Supernatural, they've been on every road in America so they know their way around, plus any weird stuff would be swiftly dealt with. For the fun companion, I would have to say Leslie Knope, I enjoy lists of things and random trivia and the person I would kick out is Homer Simpson because he would turn the car into a pigsty so fast!

[Actionmage]

A) Shotgun/navigator: Jenny Mills, Sleepy Hollow. The woman has traveled around the globe hunting relics for the apocalypse, she might be better than a GPS, if that goes on the fritz. She can probably navigate by the stars too, if it came to that.

B)  Funny backseat person: Marge Slayton, Astronaut Wives' Club, popped up first. We were introduced to her doing that very thing, telling a funny story. She probably has a million. If we can't take Marge through Means, then Xiomara/ Xo, Jane the Virgin. With Xo, we'd definitely hit car karaoke, as well as anyplace that was advertising that. I can't see Xo as not cool on a trip.

C) The Whiner: Julia Schumway, Under The Dome. Julia could be picked initially for the trip, due to folks thinking she's got her dead doctor husband's cash or cool reporter stories or hair tips. Folks would be wrong. Even before the dome came down, she was clueless and unhelpful. She'd probably complain that her sweetie wasn't there, or that Big Jim is behind our trip or Christine and Eva are going to show up and ruin the trip in some way. Not on my dime, sister. Go back and enjoy your dome.

D: Where ya goin'?: Portland, Oregon to have VooDoo doughnuts and some locally crafted beers!

 

OR

 

A: Oliver Queen, Arrow. The man lived on a not-quite isolated island for a couple of years and somehow managed to make it back to that island in time to grow a full-beard and get "rescued". He could find his way around Hong Kong without a map. No telling how he handled Russia. Plus the man knows where to shoot his swing cables as he's jumping around the roofs of his city. We'll be okay if the GPS fritzes out.

B: Sam Axe, Burn Notice. Sam has a million stories, most of them are probably funny, some are most definitely dirty and funny. Plus, he can double as navigator if Oliver ever allows himself to sleep.

C: Felix Unger, any iteration of The Odd Couple. Do I really need to elaborate? I like the guy, he could bring up some fun car games or point out some good restaurants, but?  His Felix-ness will power over everything else. Bye, dude.

D: Where ya goin'?: Canada, to score some good, sweet, late-season maple syrup! It's so good!!

 

OR

A: Carol, The Walking Dead. The woman has survived the zombie apocalypse;a busted GPS will not slow her roll at all. 

B: Dr. Ravi, iZombie.  He's a Brit, a medical examiner, and is bound to have some ridiculous stories everyone would laugh at. Even the zombie rat ones.

C: Juliette, Nashville. I understand that this last season was supposed to show her going through post-partum, but she was pretty bossy and whiny before she gave birth. She can write a song about it.

D: Where ya goin'?: NOLA, baby! Mardi Gras!!

[Lea]

This may be my favorite mini topic ever.

1. Shotgun -Leslie Knope. There is no way we're getting lost, theme playlists, thoughtful presents, sugary snacks, and glorious factoids.

2. Joker in the back - Jake Peralta. I'm surprised how much I love Andy Samberg on this show. I love that he's incredibly goofy but also kind and great at his job but not infallible.

3. Getting kicked the hell out - Faith. I can't imagine being stuck in a confined space with her (and surviving). She'd be carving into the back of the seats with some giant knife and messing with Peralta's head. She would be super easy to ditch, just drive off while she's banging some rando in the bathroom at the first rest stop.

4. Destination - The Corn Palace. Leslie would be so sincere (CORN FACTS!), Peralta would appreciate the kitsch, and surely I could get some awesome roasted corn on the cob somewhere around there.

[profreader]

Corn Palace! Went there -- if you're into kitsch, it's worth the drive.

 

 

 

[FauxReal]

My local bar was rescued by Bar Rescue, so the bartender invited us to come for the relaunch. I would guess that they had a sponsor before they even came to town, because that show was the first I'd ever heard that the neighborhood I grew up in had a strong Irish background. It took over an hour to get drinks, and we were only allowed to order the new signature cocktails or Guinness, but they either didn't have enough product or time so they brought us cans and had us pretend that we'd received a perfect pour from the newly expert bartenders. They also tried to get us to play beer pong on the newly renovated patio but we 1) didn't have beer, 2) couldn't imagine playing beer pong with Guinness, 3) all remembered hearing that binge drinking games are illegal to play in bars.

[Primetimer]

Subverting the hot-wife-married-to-schlub trope.

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[deangirl]

I like Dave's twist on the matter. If we could have the coolest of the coolest Dame Helen Mirren, I feel like a whole bunch of crazy attractive youngish actors would kill for the opportunity to play her love interest. As they should.

[Actionmage]

Personally, I agree with Sarah. What is considered "average" in TV/film is ridic. (When Mae Whitman is considered, in a movie, the less-than-jaw-dropping female friend? STFU, Hollywood. She's beautiful.)

 

I like David's take because it could start to deal with 2 subjects and have fun doing so: 1) ageism and 2) killing the overlabelling of older women as "cougars". As such, here are a couple of ideas:

 

A) Margot Martindale and Stephen Amell.  Margot is the owner of a group of lakeside cabins and Stephen owns a fishing guide business. Due to their seasonal businesses being somewhat in sync, they find themselves bumping into each other at city meetings, business/tourism meetings and at the bar & grill in town. Since many of the women Stephen's age have moved to bigger cities or are in relationships already, he's kinda stopped looking for a regular date. Margot, with a smaller pool to fish from, faces the same situation. They get caught in an unexpected storm/flood situation, help each other and find they have a lot in common.  With mischievous grins, the agree to see where this dating thing could go.

 

B) Barbara Eve Harris ( HTGAWM/Revenge/CSI/Prison Break/more) and Ian Anthony Dale(Murder in the First/Hawaii Five-0/more). They are rich security consultants who met on the job and they are now married. Various people need their help, they sometimes MacGyver, sometimes Hart To Hart situations, but they are a fun couple and their staff are devoted to them, and vice versa. There are snuggly-smoochie scenes and Barbara gets fabulous TV-ready lingerie to be surprised-by-bad-people in. Cute dog optional.

 

C)Jacqueline Obradors (NYPD Blue/NCIS/ more) and Eka Darville (Spartacus/ The Originals/Empire). Globe-hopping reporters, Jacqueline for a remaining print publication and Eka for an on-line news service, find themselves hip-deep in stories that are almost too dangerous for them-- the warlord in Syria, protests in China, the violence surrounding refugees, water wars, and the like. Sometimes they are on different continents! Between themselves and their handful of reliable guides, the couple try to find a balance between the Big Picture and personal time.

[John Ramos]

Hey @Glark, speaking of questions about the podcast, here's one I've been meaning to ask: Is there an index of Canon submissions somewhere?

[Tara Ariano]

Hey @Glark, speaking of questions about the podcast, here's one I've been meaning to ask: Is there an index of Canon submissions somewhere?

 

Yes.

[profreader]

Actionmage, I would watch ALL of those. Especially Margo Martindale & Stephen Amell. But all 3 are fantastic -- somebody make these happen - !

[John Ramos]

Yes.

 

Excellent. And it's criminal that there have only been 7 Nonac submissions!

[Primetimer]

The characters of a show of the panelists' choice walk into a McDonald's. What happens next?

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