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S04.E09: Lucha De Apuestas

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I continue to fangirl over the Sara/Zari relationship. They’re friends, yes, but they work together so well and it’s everything. Sara doesn’t buy Mona’s story but Zari wants to keep digging (how could she not? The most recent thing she’s done included being a cat and a puppet). They talk it out and Zari goes digging with Sara’s support. 

I get a kick out of imagining Biff leading the Men In Black. It’s a fun image. 

This is a small thing but Mick wearing khakis this episode is now one of the highlights of 2019. I don’t know why. 

Ray, it’s cute you think you can be captain. I did enjoy Con and Charlie easily convincing him to fix the past even though he promised Sara. 

Zari’s disgust at Mama Heywood’s “birthing hips” comment was perfect. Sara’s tango with Ava was hilarious. 

Con stanning the wrestlers, hee! He’s truly a Legend now. 

Nate playing Biff was smart but they better not hook him up with Zari. 

Mick is the voice of reason for Mona...yeah I buy it. 

Ava really lost the plot on this one but I’m sure they’ll make up. 

Oh, good, I was wondering when Mona would become a werewolf. She looks silly but her claws are a lovely shade of purple so it balances. 

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That luchador that Constatine was a fan of, was no doubt a stand-in for El Santo.  So, if the Kope was a big enough star to make Mexico forget about El Santo, that arena was way too small.  It should have been a soccer stadium, then.

Don't know why they had Ava go the bigot road.  I can understand her being pissed about Mona and the Kope, after what Mona did to Gary.  She may find Gary annoying, but it's obvious she considers Gary a close friend.

Legends did a better job building a wrestling show than WWE has built Wrestlemania this year.

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Put Cards to Save the Timeline on the merchandise we deserve list right underneath Beebo.

So much relationship drama. The Avalance breakup came on suddenly. Poor Konome. He deserved better. Although the Nate and Zari moments were surprisingly cute. 

So I guess when I wondered several eps back if Nate had somehow not been hemophiliac after all the changes the team has made to the timeline when his dad was being an asshole to him about not joining the army. But if that's their preferred charity, I guess not. Biff's just an ass. Surprise, surprise. 

Just once I want to see Mick dealing with his publisher. Ooh, or they go to the future and there's a terrible movie adaptation. 

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Ava was way too much of a hardass in this one.  It might have worked last season when she first showed up but after everything that's happened it doesn't make sense for her to be so "humans first!" all of a sudden.   These aren't lab rats, after all.

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I'm glad this show is back. Mexican wrestling, Cards to save the timeline, Kaupe's, men in black and Zari being told she has has childbearing hips. 

Ray's cards against humanity game sound more fun than chorewheel, count yourselves lucky John and Charlie.  They are becoming Legends whether they want to or not. I also love that they are continuing the meta. Vandal Savage that's a real name? and I thought Damian Darhk was too on the nose. I guess they didn't forget about Nate being a hemophiliac. 

I loved Mick talking to Mona about his books. 

I love that Sara trusts her team, that's why they trust her. She let Zari look into Mona's claim because her team is about helping the lost ones. Ava's still about following the rules no matter the cost. I'm sure she'll come around but the Legends are Sara's family if Ava can't understand that then she's not right for her. Sara's about her team over the mission and that's why I love her. That's why the Legends are a true team.   I mean Mona probably has to stay with them now but she saw what Sara does for her team, what she'll give up to do the right thing. That's the leader you follow.  

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Oh my God, I missed this crazy show so much. 

Poor Kope, and poor Mona. He didnt deserve that, he just wanted wanted to go back to ancient Hawaii and do...whatever it is that demi gods in ancient Hawaii did with their time! Screw those guys! 

So Constantine gets to geek out about some historical figure? He really is a Legends now! Loved his reactions to the fight, especially at the end, with Charlie, Mick, and Ray beating up bad guys, while he just stands their with his cigarette yelling at people. Ray getting super into being temporary team captain was adorable, and as far as leaders go, you could do worse than Ray.

Mona finally becomes a werewolf! The effects are not super amazing, but the claws looked really cool. 

Mick, you softie! Even if he did almost shoot Mona for real, he is really a secret romantic, I love it. 

Nate and Zari? Kind of random, but I can get into that. They were cute at the dance, even when his mom was being unbearably awkward. "Look at those birthing hips!" Also, was this them actually acknowledging that Nate had hemophilia before he got his powers?! Been awhile! 

So now Nate is going to be the inside man? Thats something cool for him to do, even though I am kind of hoping that Hank could come around. He and Nate were making real strides, maybe he really did have good intentions at some point, and it just got over taken by Mallus and his evil influence? 

Speaking of, that was super cold, Ava! Yeah Ava is a hardass and a rule follower, and is pissed at Mona about what she did to Gary, but acting like torturing sentient creatures is no big deal is just...not cool. At least the Legends stopped sending the creatures to Hell when they realized that not all of them were evil. Ava has to know that, as much as Sara wants to follow her rules as much as she can, she will choose doing the right thing over following rules any day of the week. I am sure that Ava and Sara will make up, but it was all so sudden. I hope she sees the light soon. 

I will 100% buy those LoT playing cards! Put them right next to my Beebo!

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2 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Don't know why they had Ava go the bigot road.  I can understand her being pissed about Mona and the Kope, after what Mona did to Gary.  She may find Gary annoying, but it's obvious she considers Gary a close friend.

I don't see it as Ava being a bigot.  Aside from Charlie (and before anyone mentions Nora, recall that Nora also used to murder people in horrible ways), is there anything that's been encountered this season that doesn't murder people in horrible ways? 

Beyond destroying human lives, these creature can potentially destroy human history.  To Ava, preventing the deaths of other human beings as well as the destruction of the timeline takes a far higher priority over ensure good treatment for the creatures responsible for that death and destruction. 

Think a little bit about what Ava and the Time Agents have to do.  They have to make sure that Lincoln is assassinated, that the Titanic sinks, that the Holocaust happens.  They have to keep their eyes on the bigger picture despite the many horrifying, evil things in that picture.  Ava respects Hank's authority and cuts him slack on this issues because she knows how hard it us to be the person in charge who makes the hard call. 

Sara's instinct with authority is to rebel against it and Ava pretty much knows that. 

The most interesting person in this was Nate confronting his father in a softer way and simply asking for clarification while telling Zari to stay on it.

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Welcome back, Legends; it's been a long, boring winter without you. I haven't laughed out loud at a show since...well, the last episode of this one.

Everyone else pointed out the good parts, so I'll just mention my two disappointments: 1, that they killed poor Konane; and 2 (and I'm probably in the minority on this), I so wanted Mona to go through that portal with Konane so we'd be done with her. I'm sorry, but I have to grit my teeth to make it through her scenes. It's not really the actress, it's the ditzy way the character is written and the way she screws things up. For those who watch The Flash, she's the Nora of this show, IMO.

But I guess I'll have to live with her a bit longer.

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With CW's recognized Arrowverse trinity taking a few weeks off, the most batshit child of the family returns. Once again: why can't we have 22 episodes of LoT?

Tonight, romance took two 95-mph fastballs to the genitals. Avalance breaks apart, and Mona watches her forbidden cryptid get killed. But she turns into whatever Konane was, so things get more complicated and ridiculous . .  and for this series, that's a great thing.

I can see where Ava was coming from, but I feel Sara was in the right. I don't think Ava is heading for the one-dimensional morality seen on Black Lightning and Supergirl, and Hank is the main bad guy (as least before Neron meets the Legends), but she was being a hardass.

Luchedors. How could you go wrong? Konane fucks up history, then the Legends inadvertently fuck it up worse. Par for the course. Also appearing: hot Avalance dancing, the random Nick/Zari pairing (just for show), John getting denied smoking yet again, and the unmitigated horror that is Ray Palmer: Interim Captain. Zari "only" came aboard last season, but she's the better option to replace Amaya as the substitute. Ray's nice . . . but he's too nice. The only other original Legend is Mick . . . yeah. Cute that he's now an established author. But you need him to bust heads more than to lead people.

Zari cleans up nice. So does Sara, but we've known that several times over already.

I'm guessing the Prof. Stein puppet will appear again. So will Gary, even though he's basically a magnet for abuse. "WHERE IS MY NIPPLE?!?"

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I was sold the minute I read, "GO [redacted] [redacted], HAIRCUT". Nice innovative way to play that off, Ray.

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12 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I don't see it as Ava being a bigot.  Aside from Charlie (and before anyone mentions Nora, recall that Nora also used to murder people in horrible ways), is there anything that's been encountered this season that doesn't murder people in horrible ways? 

I didn't either and I could see how Ava felt let down by Sara.   There's an interesting argument between the two of them and I think the show went a bit heavy handed about it but I didn't feel either was out of character.   Ava can't just agree with everything Sara does and vice versa. 

The ep didn't work for me.  I really can't stand Mona so I don't care about her, her parents, that she's a werewolf - ugh, just go away.  I didn't care about her creature boyfriend, who actually didn't appear to be really much beyond bestial (slashes Mona in a rage, almost kills Constantine) so that whole thing didn't work for me.  So there was way too much Mona story, yuck.

14 minutes ago, kirinan said:

I so wanted Mona to go through that portal with Konane so we'd be done with her. I'm sorry, but I have to grit my teeth to make it through her scenes.

I'm with you here.  Her nonsense is taking time and dialogue from other interesting and fun characters that I want to see more of.   I would rather have more Gary if for some reason an extraneous character needs more screen time.

19 minutes ago, johntfs said:

The most interesting person in this was Nate confronting his father in a softer way and simply asking for clarification while telling Zari to stay on it.

I liked this as well - Nate has grown up some.

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Legends of Tomorrow is back and they kick things off with Luchedors and how even messing with that industry could have rippling effects on the entire country!  Actually, considering how popular it is in Mexico, I could believe it.  Now, pro-wrestling here, I'm not so sure, but who knows what horrible acts could occur if someone or something prevented The Rock from being a huge star?!  Or messed things up for Dave Bautista that he never would become big enough to play Drax on Guardians of the Galaxy.  The horrors!

Glad that the Legends are already onto Hank, and this won't be dragged out for too long.  And I'm certainly not against them deciding that the best possible way to jack his phone was at a banquet, so we were able to get Sara and Zari in formal gowns!  Both of them were looking great, but I'll give the edge to Zari slightly.  Of course, nothing could top her reaction to the "birthing hips" remark from Nate's mom.  Once again, Tala Ashe is a legendary (sorry) treasure!

Continue to love how Mick's writing keeps coming into play and how he was actually trying to be helpful and supportive to Mona, in is typical Mick-ish way.

Aww, Ray is trying to get his "interim captain" on, but there was no way Constantine and Charlie were not going to get around it, like the troublesome children that they basically are!  I do want to see more of Ray's card game.  Along with the ones mentioned, I saw John Noble's name on one of them, which, of course, he would be in it!  There better be a Beebo one too!

Did not predict that Konane would get killed off at the end.  Or that Mona would reveal to have her own werewolf powers.  Still not wild about that character, but I'm curious to see where this goes.

Little surprised that Sara and Ava have broken up, but I guess there was always going to be rough waters ahead, considering her involvement in the Time Bureau and how they clash with how the Legends do things.  Still, it kind of came out of nowhere, and Ava seemed colder than normal.  I can get why she was hurt by Sara, but I'd still think she'd be more concern that Hank is apparently taking specimens without her permission, and experimenting on them.  Not telling her alone is a pretty big red flag to me. 

So, as with most things concerning Legends of Tomorrow, lets see where this crazy train goes next!

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Such a fun episode! Missed this show so much!

How is Cards to Save The Timeline not an actual thing. Get on that, CW merch team!

Loved Ray’s petition to be interim captain, especially how Mick signed it. Also liked how Charlie signed it “Rock on.” Would love to have seen Ray going to everyone and asking for their signature and to see their reaction. 

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1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Of course, nothing could top her reaction to the "birthing hips" remark from Nate's mom.  Once again, Tala Ashe is a legendary (sorry) treasure!

I love that she was scarfing down appetizers off trays, and complaining about fancy parties having tiny food the whole time her and Nate were walking into the party! Never get between Zari and her food!

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Oh Show, how I've missed you and your ridiculous insanity! Long live Legends!

So much to enjoy here as everyone's already pointed out: Zari and Sara's friendship; Zari's hair (so pretty!!); Mick's signature on Ray's petition (they left enough lines visible around the black marks to know just what those missing words were); Constantine dropping his supercool facade to geek out over a wrestler; Zari's expression at Mama Heywood's "childbearing hips" greeting; Ray's card game (I seriously want one now); Ava and Sara's tango (you can tell both actresses have backgrounds in dance), especially since both danced the woman's part and made it work; flashy-thinged Gary ("Why are things anything? Where's my nipple?!"); Mick giving life advice based on his novel; and hey, they finally mentioned hemophilia in connection with Nate!

Poor Interim Captain Ray catching so much flak, especially since he was interim captain before back in season one (when Rip, Stein, and Mick were captured by Time Pirates and Rip kept talking up how dangerous Captain Palmer was - and then they'd immediately cut to Ray being his adorkable self).

I'm really surprised they killed the Kaupe off - poor Konane, RIP. And I guess I'm slipping because I was not expecting Mona to turn into a kaupe herself. And she thought she didn't fit in before! I don't mind the character per se, but since screen time is limited and I love our Legends, I'd rather see the airtime go to the team than a new secondary character like Mona. But we'll see what happens from here.

I really, really hope they don't pair Nate and Zari! Nate's really grown on me (shockingly so) but that doesn't mean I want to see him in a romance again. I much prefer him as a friend, teammate, and son than a leading man. And Zari is too amazing a character to bog down in a romance. I love that she followed her gut that something was fishy with the footage and respectfully convinced Sara to let her pursue it. She's grown so much as a character and Tala Ashe is a true gem. With pretty pretty hair.

Seems like Ava and the Avalance relationship had about five episodes worth of story packed into one episode. And I'm totally not buying that Ava would be so callous and blasé about torture. Not caring about magical creatures being tortured isn't necessarily that different from not caring if clones are tortured. IMO the writers missed a few steps of that particular part of the story. And why wouldn't she at least hear Sara out? Hasn't Sara earned that much by now, both as a time traveler and as her girlfriend? I get that they need the plot to happen one way or another, but Ava's part in it felt a little clunky tonight.

And Sara, leaving Ray with Charlie, Constantine and Mick is like leaving an adorable little bunny at the mercy of a wolf pack. He didn't stand a chance! But am I the only one who expected him to get in the el Lobo costume and fight in Konane's place?

I'm so glad this show is back!

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21 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

But am I the only one who expected him to get in the el Lobo costume and fight in Konane's place?

When they showed Goldeneye (I forget the character's name) struggling in rehearsal I was certain that Mick would step in and preserve history.  Not sure why but that's what I thought at first.

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As an Avalance fan, I found the writing for Ava way out of character as well. Especially after the episode where bonded with Nora & Mona & came around to the creatures.

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3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I love that she was scarfing down appetizers off trays, and complaining about fancy parties having tiny food the whole time her and Nate were walking into the party! Never get between Zari and her food!

Next season, give us a Supernatural and Legends crossover where everybody just marvels at how much free food that Zari and Dean can eat.

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I think I liked the Luche Libre episode of ANGEL more but this was fun too.

I love it whenever Sara dances at fancy parties!

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Nate and Zari? Kind of random, but I can get into that. They were cute at the dance, even when his mom was being unbearably awkward. "Look at those birthing hips!" Also, was this them actually acknowledging that Nate had hemophilia before he got his powers?! Been awhile! 

Yeah! It's both very touching of Nate's parents that they've done annual benefits and also such a rich person thing to care about a cause only because it personally affects you!

Zari looked fantastic. I hope she and Nate are just f**kbuddies though. I can't see them being a regular thing.

Looks like Mona is going to be joining the crew now that she has the power to turn into a scary beast.

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Well, I enjoyed having the show back and there were a lot of great classic Legends moments.  That said...the episode probably isn’t going to end up on any of my favorites lists.  Mona is still just....not my favorite character, and this had a bit too much of her for me to really love it.  

I’m interested to see where they go with the Sara/Ava relationship from here.  I don’t think this is the end for them at all, but I do hope they take some time to address some of the issues they kind of skipped over last year.  I don’t think this is really that out of the blue.  It’s just that Sara (and the show) have kind of been sidestepping the issue for a while now; for example when Sara didn’t tell Ava the truth about Charlie.  So congrats if that was deliberate and building up to this.

I’m side-eying the Nate/Zari thing.  I’m not at all sure what I think about that yet.  I mean, I know it hasn’t actually really gone anywhere yet, but that was some pretty blatant teasing.  I was actually more of a fan of Zari with Ray, but I guess they’re going more with Nora and Ray, which I also like, but...eh. I don’t know. I think part of my hesitation is just that I really didn’t like Nate when he was with Amaya, and now I like him, and I don’t want him to become unlikeable again.  But also....wow, I just never really thought about those two together.

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@Starfish35 I groaned so loud when Zari & Nate has the scene in the office. Please, don't go there show. I hope the show doesn't feel Nate just has to always have a girlfriend. Everyone on this board knows my feelings on Nate. LOL.

I have conflicting feelings on Mona. I agree mostly in everyone's comments. Too much of her today. But her being a Kaupe may be interesting. I don't know. I don't think she'll ever really feel like a necessary character to me.

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Nate and Zari was surprising because it came out of nowhere. Did they even interact that much? I wonder if they originally were going to go with Ray/Zari until Brandon's real wife came on the show and they had amazing chemistry. Then they switched it to Nate/Zari. Single Nate made him more likable, they should keep him that way. 

With Ava I wonder if it's still her programming to follow orders. Because she more then anyone should be able to sympathize with beings that don't belong. She's a clone from the future, the 11th or 12th version at the Time Bureau. Maybe that will be her storyline. 

Sara's able to break through a little bit but it always snaps back when her job is in danger. She's programmed to do that job and that job alone. She needs to learn that following orders is not always he best option when the person giving those orders wants to hurt people. 

What I love about Sara is she doesn't give up anyone right away. She definitely has not given up on Ava. She chose to trust a stranger over her girlfriend's job. Hopefully because she remembers the Time Masters also had evil in their operations. And also because she doesn't trust authority. 

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Huh. So, Legends surprises me once again. I thought for sure that they just decided to completely retcon Nate's hemophilia, never mention it again, and had finally accepted it. So for Hank to actually be organizing a benefit for hemophilia? That put a smile on my face. Thanks, show! I should have never doubted you! 

As for Nate/Zari, Nate has been significantly more interesting without a girlfriend. Please don't go here, show. Nate doesn't need to be in a relationship, really.

I still don't think I love Mona. She's alright, but I'm not really feeling her. Even if Mona/Mick might bond over their romantic side, I really need more to like Mona. Constantine, on the other hand, has grown on me significantly so maybe Mona will too. I kind of like Constantine and Charlie's bonding as well over the weird names like Vandal Savage.

I get Sara's predicament in this episode. She saw that Ava was under a lot of pressure to bring back Konane to the Bureau and that almost clouded her judgement in the mission....but not quite, as she still allowed Zari to look into Mona's story. Sara really does trust her team, which is fantastic. I feel bad for the sudden change in the Avalance relationship, though. They really grew on me since last season and I'm sad for their troubles.

It does kind of make sense on Ava's end. In her mind, after Hank yelled at her at the beginning of the episode, she felt like she strayed too far off course and wasn't doing her job due to her connection with the Legends. This was her attempt at trying to get back to her job, not realizing that she is a better person because of the Legends, and because of Sara. And she honestly thought that Konane was dangerous. However, her being fine with torturing creatures IS out of character with who Ava has grown to be. It almost worked besides her "who cares" spiel. It feels like they just need someone in Hank's corner, and Ava's the easiest scapegoat. 

Welcome back, Legends. I have missed you.   

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58 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I still don't think I love Mona. She's alright, but I'm not really feeling her. Even if Mona/Mick might bond over their romantic side, I really need more to like Mona. Constantine, on the other hand, has grown on me significantly so maybe Mona will too. I kind of like Constantine and Charlie's bonding as well over the weird names like Vandal Savage.

This (the part in bold; I just don't see me coming to like or even tolerate Mona). I wasn't thrilled about him coming on board as a regular--I didn't dislike him but I just didn't care about him--and then I realized, watching him during the fight rehearsal, that he HAS grown on me, I actually do like him, and I look forward to seeing him every week. Matt Ryan is a very funny guy, and also does well at the deeper stuff, too.

So now Constantine has grown on me, Nate has grown on me, Zari never had to grow on me because I've liked her from the start, Charlie is a hoot I've liked since day one (actually I think I might prefer her to Amaya, although I liked her, too), Ava's not my favorite but I like her well enough, and I can tolerate Gary. None of them will ever replace the original Snart in my affections, but with the current Legends cast, I miss him less.

Oh, and P.S. Ray needs a haircut. That longish floppy hair really distracted me, for some reason. There's a reason Mick calls him Haircut!

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I'm one that doesn't really mind Mona. She's just kind of there. The actress showed up again in the newest season of Santa Clarita diet where she plays a completely different character. Its interesting that she keeps playing characters with her real name. Lol

Another thing with Ava she yelled at Sara for thinking about herself when she was the one only thinking about HER job. Sara was the one thinking about others and ruining her love life to do that. Sara's whole deal is protecting the innocent from harm. Mona was innocent and the kaupe didn't deserve to be experimented on. 

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7 minutes ago, kirinan said:

Oh, and P.S. Ray needs a haircut. That longish floppy hair really distracted me, for some reason. There's a reason Mick calls him Haircut!

😂 Agreed.  And now I’m imagining Mick.  “Haircut. You need one.” 

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1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Huh. So, Legends surprises me once again. I thought for sure that they just decided to completely retcon Nate's hemophilia, never mention it again, and had finally accepted it. So for Hank to actually be organizing a benefit for hemophilia? That put a smile on my face. Thanks, show! I should have never doubted you! 

As for Nate/Zari, Nate has been significantly more interesting without a girlfriend. Please don't go here, show. Nate doesn't need to be in a relationship, really.

I still don't think I love Mona. She's alright, but I'm not really feeling her. Even if Mona/Mick might bond over their romantic side, I really need more to like Mona. Constantine, on the other hand, has grown on me significantly so maybe Mona will too. I kind of like Constantine and Charlie's bonding as well over the weird names like Vandal Savage.

I get Sara's predicament in this episode. She saw that Ava was under a lot of pressure to bring back Konane to the Bureau and that almost clouded her judgement in the mission....but not quite, as she still allowed Zari to look into Mona's story. Sara really does trust her team, which is fantastic. I feel bad for the sudden change in the Avalance relationship, though. They really grew on me since last season and I'm sad for their troubles.

It does kind of make sense on Ava's end. In her mind, after Hank yelled at her at the beginning of the episode, she felt like she strayed too far off course and wasn't doing her job due to her connection with the Legends. This was her attempt at trying to get back to her job, not realizing that she is a better person because of the Legends, and because of Sara. And she honestly thought that Konane was dangerous. However, her being fine with torturing creatures IS out of character with who Ava has grown to be. It almost worked besides her "who cares" spiel. It feels like they just need someone in Hank's corner, and Ava's the easiest scapegoat. 

Welcome back, Legends. I have missed you.   

As an Ava fan, I am very angry at how she's being thrown under the bus for this story.

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This was easily my least favorite episode since S1. I'm sorry, I am just not feeling Mona. Way too much of her and it's not the actress because I've liked her in the other stuff I've seen her in. There was just way, way too much Mona in this episode for me. Fortunately, I loved everything else because, you know, it's Legends and everything else about Legends is FANTABULOUS!

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It was fine, but it wasn't as crazy as it usually is. Not that mad about Mona either.

It is interesting though that there seem to be multiple recurring/big bad villains on all the DC CW shows at the moment. Here we have the demon, Nate's Dad and now potentially Mona. Supergirl has Lex Luthor, Agent Liberty and Supergirl's "twin" whose name currently escapes me. Arrow has had a whole mess of Big Bads. I suppose The Flash doesn't really count as the Big Bad was just killed by what will most likely become the main Big Bad.

I like it though (for the most part).

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19 hours ago, kirinan said:

I so wanted Mona to go through that portal with Konane so we'd be done with her. I'm sorry, but I have to grit my teeth to make it through her scenes.

I agree. I don't care for her and she took away too much time from other characters, and now that she is a werewolf it seems we are doomed for more of her. After the awesome episode we left off with for the winter break to come back and have a Mona-centric episode was a disappointment for me.

17 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

I really, really hope they don't pair Nate and Zari!  Zari is too amazing a character to bog down in a romance.

Yep, she is to awesome to get bogged down by romance. I flinched last season when they hinted at a Jonah Hex hook up and did the same here.

There were some good things in this episode.

I was amused at Charlie and Constantine calling Ray Rage when they were trying to convince him to leave the ship. The way Sara flicked the cigarette from John's mouth. Mick realizing Mona reads his books. Zari eating everything off the plates that were passing her by.

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8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I was amused at Charlie and Constantine calling Ray Rage when they were trying to convince him to leave the ship. The way Sara flicked the cigarette from John's mouth. Mick realizing Mona reads his books. Zari eating everything off the plates that were passing her by.

Yes, those were all classic moments. 😂

I have also gotten to enjoy Constantine quite a lot.  I was completely upset when he was brought on as a regular, but I’m really enjoying how he’s fitting into the team.  He and Charlie make a delightful evil teamup against poor Ray. 😈😈

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18 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Loved Ray’s petition to be interim captain, especially how Mick signed it. Also liked how Charlie signed it “Rock on.” Would love to have seen Ray going to everyone and asking for their signature and to see their reaction. 

This would have been such a great little Legends montage!
 

17 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I agree. I don't care for her and she took away too much time from other characters, and now that she is a werewolf it seems we are doomed for more of her. After the awesome episode we left off with for the winter break to come back and have a Mona-centric episode was a disappointment for me.

Yeah, maybe it was just that I was Legends-deprived for months and was hoping for more ACTUAL Legends in the first episode back. But I wasn't a fan of Mona before and I really wasn't a fan of so much Mona in this episode.

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10 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Nate and Zari was surprising because it came out of nowhere. Did they even interact that much? I wonder if they originally were going to go with Ray/Zari until Brandon's real wife came on the show and they had amazing chemistry. Then they switched it to Nate/Zari. Single Nate made him more likable, they should keep him that way. 

11 hours ago, Proteus said:

I groaned so loud when Zari & Nate has the scene in the office. Please, don't go there show. I hope the show doesn't feel Nate just has to always have a girlfriend.

11 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

 I think part of my hesitation is just that I really didn’t like Nate when he was with Amaya, and now I like him, and I don’t want him to become unlikeable again.

YES to all of this. Very much so. In fact, can we perhaps get these sentiments embroidered on some throw pillows and send them to the writers' room?

I don't recall any significant interaction between Nate and Zari until the Hedgehog Groundhog Day episode, which established a solid friendship between them. They've barely seen each other since Nate left the Waverider for the TB, too. And Amaya was Zari's friend. Nothing more than friendship has ever been hinted at until last night, and... I can only hope it's a fluke. This is the first season that I've actually liked Nate since he came on the show. Don't blow it so soon.

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I have also gotten to enjoy Constantine quite a lot.  I was completely upset when he was brought on as a regular, but I’m really enjoying how he’s fitting into the team.  He and Charlie make a delightful evil teamup against poor Ray. 😈😈

Same here. I really felt he didn't fit with the show or the team, but he's finally starting to feel like one of the gang. Especially now that he's loosened up and dropped the whole "I'm such a dark brooding loner" vibe and started acting like a part of the lovable, screwball Waverider family. For me, part of my initial wariness was how Constantine was discussed and handled in interviews - I always got the sense like TPTB thought he was too precious to be made to change to fit the show, which really bothered me. Don't get me wrong, I understand that the character has a very long history in comics with his own fan following, and had his own solo show (I watched some of it) but you can't bring the character onto an ensemble team show without having him have to adjust accordingly, at least to some degree.

I have to say, though, that Matt Ryan has really impressed me with his performances and dedication to the character. Not to mention the fact that his hair miraculously hasn't fallen out despite being bleached platinum blond for how many months of filming.

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14 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

For me, part of my initial wariness was how Constantine was discussed and handled in interviews - I always got the sense like TPTB thought he was too precious to be made to change to fit the show, which really bothered me. Don't get me wrong, I understand that the character has a very long history in comics with his own fan following, and had his own solo show (I watched some of it) but you can't bring the character onto an ensemble team show without having him have to adjust accordingly, at least to some degree.

Totally agree with all of this, particularly the bolded part.  But I’m glad he’s fitting in more with the team now.

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A generally enjoyable episode, marred by some facile script-writing choices. For example, people not listening to each other or cutting short a conversation as the other person is trying to convey vital information, about a conspiracy in this specific instance. Plus some illogical character behaviour: why would Sara or Ava spontaneously dismiss the possibility of a conspiracy at the Time Bureau, considering all the double-dealings and underhanded actions they have witnessed over the previous seasons? At least Sara quickly allowed Zari to investigate it, just in case. And once confronted with the reality of the deception, why would Ava find it okay that she was lied to by Hank and was manipulated by him?

I have enjoyed Constantine from the start and previously on his own short-lived series, and he is becoming more and more of a delight. The actor is obviously having a ball. No mention of his boyfriend, although we did spot him during the gala, sporting the patented Evil Smile all villains, possessed or not, eventually display. Was it just me or does he not look a lot like Jussie Smollett, which had not struck me before since I do not watch Empire?

Edited by Florinaldo
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12 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It does kind of make sense on Ava's end. In her mind, after Hank yelled at her at the beginning of the episode, she felt like she strayed too far off course and wasn't doing her job due to her connection with the Legends. This was her attempt at trying to get back to her job, not realizing that she is a better person because of the Legends, and because of Sara. And she honestly thought that Konane was dangerous. However, her being fine with torturing creatures IS out of character with who Ava has grown to be. It almost worked besides her "who cares" spiel. It feels like they just need someone in Hank's corner, and Ava's the easiest scapegoat. .   

I can see that Ava would be insecure about her job and worried that the Time Bureau would be shut down because she's a clone and maybe she feels insecure. On the other hand, as a clone she should have more compassion for non-human creatures.

Ava was never a favorite of mine and I thought she was doing okay lately. Now she's deadtome.

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22 hours ago, Proteus said:

As an Ava fan, I am very angry at how she's being thrown under the bus for this story.

I wasnt thrilled by it either, but I have a theory, based on the memorials in the last episode, where it said "Ava Sharpe: Replaced too soon" or something similar...what if "our" Ava has been kidnapped and the Ava we saw was a clone? We saw Ava and Sara walk into the Time Bureau and then the next time Ava is running around she's really cold to everyone, including Sara. It would be a cool twist and keep up the tension around Ava as a clone and what that means to her. 

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48 minutes ago, questionfear said:

I wasnt thrilled by it either, but I have a theory, based on the memorials in the last episode, where it said "Ava Sharpe: Replaced too soon" or something similar...what if "our" Ava has been kidnapped and the Ava we saw was a clone? We saw Ava and Sara walk into the Time Bureau and then the next time Ava is running around she's really cold to everyone, including Sara. It would be a cool twist and keep up the tension around Ava as a clone and what that means to her. 

I wish that were the case but I think the writers truly believe they gave Ava a justifiable point of view in her fight with Sara. Clearly there were wrong and IMO have now done a lot of damage to the character of Ava Sharpe and the Sara/Ava pairing. The show may think they can turn it around, but the question is will anyone care. I don't know if I will. I feel pretty much done at this point.

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Ava's been programmed to follow orders. Whenever her job is threatened is when she reverts back to colder Ava. That's probably something she has to work in ignoring sometimes. 

I never got fully on board with Avalance. They grew on me a bit but I still don't feel Ava's the right person for Sara. I'm sure they'll get back together. I just don't care one way or the other. 

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45 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Ava's been programmed to follow orders. Whenever her job is threatened is when she reverts back to colder Ava. That's probably something she has to work in ignoring sometimes. 

I never got fully on board with Avalance. They grew on me a bit but I still don't feel Ava's the right person for Sara. I'm sure they'll get back together. I just don't care one way or the other. 

That's cool. As a fan of theirs, I just feel down about what went down. Not sure I want to invest anymore time in this ship.

Maybe the show will explore with Ava what you laid out. Who knows.

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As a Sara fan I'm hoping she'll get a storyline that doesn't revolve around Ava. I want to see Sara hanging out with her team more. I miss that. 

Edited by Sakura12
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So after the Kaupe died, his Kaupe essence transferred into Mona and now Mona has it?  How come he was a Kaupe the whole time but hers comes and goes?  I'm sure we are in for a "strange deaths keep happening and no one knows why" storyline.

I like the concept of Mona but I don't like how she's played as a complete ditz.  I hate her voice.  I wonder if that's the actress' real voice or if she is playing up the ditzy little girl voice.

I did like however that her mom and she spoke Cantonese and that the show actually got it right.  Many times on TV shows when there are two characters that are supposed to be Chinese, one will speak in Mandarin and the other will respond in Cantonese.  Because apparently it's all the same to some producers who don't know any better.  I've often wondered why in these situations the actors don't point out the oddness.

On 4/2/2019 at 9:57 AM, kirinan said:

Oh, and P.S. Ray needs a haircut. That longish floppy hair really distracted me, for some reason. There's a reason Mick calls him Haircut!

Yes.  It's terrible.  I can't decide if the hairstyling department is having him look like that on purpose or not, but whatever it is, it looks bad.

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I will defend Ray's floppy hair, not just because I personally like longer hair on guys, but also because, come on, it's Brandon Routh! I think it's impossible for him to not look good, lol.

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23 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I like the concept of Mona but I don't like how she's played as a complete ditz.  I hate her voice.  I wonder if that's the actress' real voice or if she is playing up the ditzy little girl voice.

This the actress in another role. Where she doesn't have the ditzy voice. Also that show is amazing. 

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3 hours ago, Proteus said:

I wish that were the case but I think the writers truly believe they gave Ava a justifiable point of view in her fight with Sara. Clearly there were wrong and IMO have now done a lot of damage to the character of Ava Sharpe and the Sara/Ava pairing. The show may think they can turn it around, but the question is will anyone care. I don't know if I will. I feel pretty much done at this point.

Ava did have a somewhat justifiable point of view.  Replace "magical creatures" with "terrorists" you pretty much have the debate that raged through much of 2000s after 9/11.  Again, let's recall that Charlie aside all of these beings, including the Kaupe are (or were) viciously murderous.  Sure we want to be high-minded and poo-poo torture/experimentation, but most of the Time Agents are regular human people who don't have superpowers or even super training like Sara.  They need to understand the weaknesses of these beings in order to capture/defeat them.  And pretty much the only way to learn those weaknesses is through, yes, experimentation. 

It's fine for Mona and Sara to sympathize with the creatures, but they're not the ones who have to make phone calls to the families of Time Agents to tell parents/spouses/children that their children/spouses/parents are dead. 

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I am glad the show is back.  This episode wasn't the best, tho.

Not to pile on Mona, but I agree that she is a weak point for me.  I think, in my case, it is a combo of the actress and the character and how she is being written (so basically the trifecta really for any character).  Everyone else, even hard ass Ava whom I also generally dislike, really feels like they live in the skin of their character.  And it isn't a case of taking time or getting familiar because as many have noted Zari and I would argue both Amaya and Charlie felt almost wholly realized in their characters right from their first scenes. I found my attention wandering during most of this, only perking up at some points (mostly Mick, Constantine, Charlie and Ray's stuff).

I on squarely on Sara's side in her issue with Ava.  I also don't agree that these are all necessarily monsters.  For one, we haven't seen them all.  But I think there is an argument to be made about the inherent right of the bureau to determine the rights of these creatures. Some of them are intentionally bad (the fairy godmother, the puppet) but some of them were imprisoned simply because they were living their nature.  Charlie was one such a creature.  Also, the unicorn.  It is a magical animal who kills what it considers prey.  But that is like saying a lion or a tiger is a monster.  I liked that the legends re-thought their one size fits all approach to the various magical creatures they encounter.  Not all of them are doing what they are doing from wilful evil intent.

Edited by DearEvette
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