S03.E18: Her

MrsWitter · April 4, 2019

6 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

Hmmm, it looked to me like a typical Philadelphia brick row home. Very common here. I can't see them living in north Philadelphia though, rough area. Perhaps west Philadelphia (University City?), South? Fishtown or Northern Liberties.

How many references do you all think we’re going to get to Fresh Prince next season from Randall trying to sell the move to the girls? I honestly can’t believe we got through this whole season without one. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Councilman Pearson dressed as Will or Jazz next Halloween because he is that much of a cheeseball.

3 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

That scene cracks me up every time even though that clearly wasn’t the intention and I thought the same exact thing when Rebecca was picking up the fruit lol .

I know! I always wonder what Kevin Williamson was thinking because all I could do was laugh when Mitch died. Was it supposed to be somewhat funny? In my case, it’s been a great reminder to be safe- whenever I drop something on the passenger side floor, I remind myself to not pick it up because that’s how Dawson’s dad died. 😂

3 hours ago, preeya said:

WTF is a corn sandwich? I've heard of ketchup sandwiches, but corn.

What about PB&J?

I have never heard of a ketchup sandwich, although I think I can figure out what it is.

Violetgoblin6 · April 4, 2019

15 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I have seen basement renovations in Philadelphia in which a new bathroom was put in down there. My contractor offered that, but I declined, but if I had a house full of people...

I'm probably going to be a PITA next season about Philadelphia stuff. Dan Fogelman* and Ken Olin both went to Penn, so I hope they will make some effort to be realistic, though they might not have been back here in ages. I will say that thirtysomething was pretty good at portraying Philadelphia, so I hope that rubbed off.

*edited

That makes two of us (have lived in Philadelphia and now live between Philly and Allentown). I didn't know Ken went to Penn. Makes sense as Michael and Gary did on thirtysomething (loved that show fiercely!) I absolutely adored Michael and Hope's craftsman home in Lower Merion.

Edited: to the poster from Germantown and Mt. Airy- my grandfather was from Mt. Airy, my dad was from Gorgas Lane in Germantown, my grandma was from Chestnut Hill.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Violetgoblin6
Had some more thoughts

Marci · April 4, 2019

Quote

Randall still wins. He didn't have to give up much more than downgrading their home. He didn't make much of a sacrifice himself.

In my mind, finding a way to make it work should have been the objective from the get-go. Marriage isn’t about one person winning, therefore the other losing. It’s about making it work. If Beth chose to be on board with Randall’s plans in the past, then she was on board as a team. Not as someone who’s keeping count so she could one day say, we are not really a team, it is me vs. you, and here’s the score. It’s one thing if she used past acquiescences to bolster her case to keep her dance position, but another to use it as “we are not in this together and we have never really been a team.” Because all that shows is that she never truly was on board.

Anyway, I’m glad they worked it out, together, the way they should have from day one.

nlkm9 · April 4, 2019

10 hours ago, DNR said:

Where i live in the ‘burbs of NY, there is a Dance school & nail salon everywhere you turn ! Fine time to chase your dream Beth

and a chinese place and a chiropractor!!

alexvillage · April 4, 2019

Someone said that they thought Deja's speech was contrived. I agree. The writers want to paint her as this very smart girl, which is fine, she is doing well in school, she is thriving. But she is also a traumatized kid. The speech coming out of her mouth was a speech that would have come from an adult after they had been working on their trauma. No matter how insightful she is, how much she drew from her own experience, I don't think a kid would be so articulate in expressing herself, AND in a way that gives an adult a life lesson.

Even if she thought all those things, even if Randall deserved to hear those things, the WAY she spoke was very unrealistic, unlikely to come out so clear, measured and to the point.

txhorns79 · April 4, 2019

5 hours ago, MrsWitter said:

How many references do you all think we’re going to get to Fresh Prince next season from Randall trying to sell the move to the girls?

Wasn't the premise of that show that Philadelphia was too dangerous for Will to remain in, so he was sent to live with relatives in California?

8 hours ago, preeya said:

WTF is a corn sandwich? I've heard of ketchup sandwiches, but corn.

What about PB&J?

I just rolled my eyes at that whole storyline. The kids were too old to be behaving the way they were, and it made it seem like Jack was a totally incompetent parent who could barely handle parenting the kids solo for less than a day.

Katy M · April 4, 2019

11 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

Beth got even more than she wanted and the kids are the BIG losers.

How are the kids losing? They're just moving. None of them are in high school, yet, so it's the perfect time to move.

ShadowFacts · April 4, 2019

22 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I just rolled my eyes at that whole storyline. The kids were too old to be behaving the way they were, and it made it seem like Jack was a totally incompetent parent who could barely handle parenting the kids solo for less than a day.

Yes, that was a real eye-roller. He's been portrayed as super dad, pitching in with anything, making fun and games, putting sequins on Madonna gloves for Kate's birthday, and he can't figure out something for dinner, and the kids sit there waiting to be served. No. In the middle of the night worrying and unable to sleep, I thought they would go the route of all sleeping in Jack's room. Going to the hospital and descending on their mother who needed a minute of rest, so annoying to me. I wish the desk person had booted them. I guess it was supposed to remind us how Rebecca said "we're family" in Kate's waiting room, but it was too much. We get that Rebecca meant the world to them, we don't need anvils.

llewis823 · April 4, 2019

On 4/2/2019 at 9:35 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

After all, Rebecca bent down to rescue the peaches she had bought for her. The peaches of doom.

Do people actually bend down to pick something up off the floor boards while driving? Seriously? You can't wait until you get to your destination or pull over for the two seconds it would take? I can honestly say I've never done this and that is for this very reason.

preeya · April 4, 2019

7 hours ago, MrsWitter said:

How many references do you all think we’re going to get to Fresh Prince next season from Randall trying to sell the move to the girls? I honestly can’t believe we got through this whole season without one. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Councilman Pearson dressed as Will or Jazz next Halloween because he is that much of a cheeseball.

I know! I always wonder what Kevin Williamson was thinking because all I could do was laugh when Mitch died. Was it supposed to be somewhat funny? In my case, it’s been a great reminder to be safe- whenever I drop something on the passenger side floor, I remind myself to not pick it up because that’s how Dawson’s dad died. 😂

I have never heard of a ketchup sandwich, although I think I can figure out what it is.

No pun was intended. Ketchup sandwich is or was (when I was a youngster) a real thing.

nlkm9 · April 4, 2019

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

How are the kids losing? They're just moving. None of them are in high school, yet, so it's the perfect time to move.

I have moved several times and it is really tough for the children--we have Deja, who still struggles between her new life and her old life, who might possibly get into a bad crowd, it sounds like they cant afford a nice private school where they are at, we have a teenager who is coming out and with all that has to deal with all new friends, school, etc and the little one will probably be ok. Moving is listed as one of the most stressful things in life and these 3 who have had such turmoil will now have to adjust to all of this *just* so they can live their dreams. The only positive I see is that the kids can hang out at Beth's studio if she doesnt want them alone. If I hadnt moved 4 times and lived through, I couldnt possibly have an opinion. but I lived it, and it sucks.

9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

They are the big losers, because there wasn't any consideration on how this move could affect the children. It was all about being closer to Randall's job and where Beth could open up a dance studio. It was an impulsive knew jerk move by Beth, and no one was consulted about that move. If Randall didn't go for it, the marriage was probably going to be over.

Beth made this decision in one day, one afternoon. She didn't even sleep on it. She didn't even see if there was a need for a dance studio in Philadelphia.

Even if Randall resigned from his job, he would no doubt have bitter feelings towards Beth of what could have been. The marriage still would have been in serious trouble.

From what we have seen from Beth's childhood through adulthood, Beth has shown absolutely no impulse control whatsoever. That's why Beth boohooing about being steamrolled by Randall was complete bullshit. Beth can steamroll with the best of them.

the way she accepted that sunday job without even taking a moment to give a heads up to Randall--shows how little she thinks of them. :(

Katy M · April 4, 2019

8 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

They are the big losers, because there wasn't any consideration on how this move could affect the children. It was all about being closer to Randall's job and where Beth could open up a dance studio. It was an impulsive knew jerk move by Beth, and no one was consulted about that move. If Randall didn't go for it, the marriage was probably going to be over.

I'm sure the kids would rather move than have their parents divorce. But, really, kids are never, nor should they really be, consulted in parents' career and moving decisions. They don't have enough information or ilife experience. People move all the time and they're fine. Although, I'm probably projecting, because I wanted nothing more than to move when I was a kid. But, we couldn't because "your father's job is here and they probably wouldn't be any nicer to you at a different school anyway."

10 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Beth made this decision in one day, one afternoon. She didn't even sleep on it. She didn't even see if there was a need for a dance studio in Philadelphia.

She came to the decision a lot of us have been pushing as common sense on this forum for a while. There really was no other solution where everyone would be happy.

nlkm9 · April 4, 2019

Just now, Katy M said:

I'm sure the kids would rather move than have their parents divorce. But, really, kids are never, nor should they really be, consulted in parents' career and moving decisions. They don't have enough information or ilife experience. People move all the time and they're fine. Although, I'm probably projecting, because I wanted nothing more than to move when I was a kid. But, we couldn't because "your father's job is here and they probably wouldn't be any nicer to you at a different school anyway."

Im sure they would rather move than a divorce too--but thats a big adult thing they shouldnt have to live with. But Beth and Randall are getting their dream, so screw everyone else. hopefully the kids are fine but id be shocked if this is not a major upheaval for them.

dcubed · April 4, 2019

15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think the difference is that they weren't technically flash forwarding before the end of last season. The present day timelines is the main storyline. It's why it's the present day, so the flashbacks that they have are used to show how the present day characters turned out and how it shaped their lives. While the flash forwards are different; the issue with the flash forwards is that they can't show who the present day characters are. The flash forwards are essentially a subplot rather than a main plot. Our perspective isn't mainly taking place in the future, so what happens is that the flash forwards are starting to dictate the present day storylines.

I disagree...I don't think what happens in the flash forwards dictates the present day storylines. Simplified for argument, in the case of Randall and Beth, the present day story line showed a couple that was once very connected who were encountering difficulties and stressful life events that resoundingly affected their marriage. Their flashbacks showed us how they got to where they were 1. Randall determined/tightly wound/apple to Jack's tree) 2. Beth, a girl that got the wind knocked out of her sail and struggled to find her sense of self, 3. their connection as a couple (often finishing each other's sentences), 4. the familial influences, etc. The present showed us clearly how they got to where they are and whether their marriage survived was up in the air. The flash forward let us see what the end result of their struggle was. That we didn't know if they stayed married or not did not dictate that story line. The flash forwards provide a conclusion to what we have been viewing all along. But again, different strokes and all...

bybrandy · April 4, 2019

A big upheval for the kids? Yes. A big upheval was coming one way or another. The divorce would likely have them selling the house and moving anyway. This way the family stays together.

My mom move when I was in 5th grade and that actually was fine. Then I switched schools in 6th and socially it was a disaster for me. But the things that made it a disaster would have been there if we'd stayed where I'd lived as a kid. Middle school is CRAP. I was socially awkward and fully developed an introvert. It was going to be a rough time. Our move meant it was a rough time where my mom wasn't home only on the weekends to help me through it.

Sure Deja and Tess and Annie may have rough time coming up. Kids go through periods where they have a rough time. But they could have equally gotten into a rough time in New Jersey.

I had a friend whose dad sold his company the summer before her senior year of high school, and from a business decision it was absolutely the right thing to do. And part of doing it was a decision that his wife and daughter would stay where they were so she didn't have to change schools her senior year. Senior year started and the mean girl clique she'd always been a part of decided this was the year they were going to exclude her (they always excluded some girl from the clique each year) so here she is breaking up her family so she can have one last great year with kids she went to school with since literally pre-kindergarten and they all turn on her. I know this because she told me about all the guilt she felt while sobbing in the ladies room one day. And if she'd known it would turn out that way she just would have spent her senior year at a new school. But now it was midway through the year and switching made even less sense.

Being a kid is COMPLICATED and it becomes more complicated as you grow up. But moving may turn out to be the thing that saves them and they'll never know.

If Jack doesn't die Randall goes to Howard and he never meets Beth. No Tess. No Annie. And maybe Deja hits the foster parents lottery again... but probably not.

If Kevin doesn't blow out his knee he goes to college on a football scholarship and he's not the Manny and his life? Probably still fine. He's Kevin. He's lucky. White. Attractive. Charming. He'll be fine. But he'll be a different shade of fine.

ErinV · April 4, 2019

WHY are R&B killing themselves to make sure the kids have parental supervision for every second of the day? Beth can't leave until Kevin comes over. Tess and Deja are PLENTY old enough to be by themselves for a bit, and to watch Annie. My kids just turned old enough to be home by themselves for short periods, and I can't tell you the FREEDOM this gives me! FFS.

Katy M · April 4, 2019

27 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

Im sure they would rather move than a divorce too--but thats a big adult thing they shouldnt have to live with. But Beth and Randall are getting their dream, so screw everyone else. hopefully the kids are fine but id be shocked if this is not a major upheaval for them.

Who is getting screwed? They are moving one state over. They may very well consider it an adventure.

Jax7917 · April 4, 2019

8 minutes ago, ErinV said:

WHY are R&B killing themselves to make sure the kids have parental supervision for every second of the day? Beth can't leave until Kevin comes over. Tess and Deja are PLENTY old enough to be by themselves for a bit, and to watch Annie. My kids just turned old enough to be home by themselves for short periods, and I can't tell you the FREEDOM this gives me! FFS.

Yes, the dramatics need to stop with them having a babysitter at all times. Isn't De ja 14 or 15? Tess is older as well. I think you can be left home alone starting at age 11 (unless you're Kevin McCallister.) 😉

kili · April 4, 2019

Quote

They are the big losers, because there wasn't any consideration on how this move could affect the children. It was all about being closer to Randall's job and where Beth could open up a dance studio. It was an impulsive knew jerk move by Beth, and no one was consulted about that move. If Randall didn't go for it, the marriage was probably going to be over.

Beth could more easily and cheaply have opened a dance studio in her area if a dance studio was her only goal (in NJ, she doesn't have to move, studio rents are probably cheaper, she has connections and knows the area).

Fundamentally, the logic of moving to Philly is because Randall chose to run for election there and won. Either the kids rarely see their father (long commutes, long hours, sleeping in Philly) or they move to Philly.

I don't get where Beth is getting the blame here. Randall made the impulsive jerk decision that necessitates this move. Beth is pragmatically suggesting the only reasonable solution that will keep the family together.

Randall quitting at this point isn't fair to his constituents, his co-workers or the city of Philly. It sets a bad example for the kids and it would probably crush him mentally.

Kids move all the time for their parent's jobs and they survive. It is not the end of the world. They'll do much better moving to Philly than having their parent's get divorced or rarely seeing their Dad. This is the best choice. I laud Beth for coming up with a reasonable compromise.

ShadowFacts · April 4, 2019

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Who is getting screwed? They are moving one state over. They may very well consider it an adventure.

They will have big changes ahead and that is often difficult at first, but yes, they could enjoy a lot of it and they will definitely have the benefit of more time with their father. He won't be commuting 4 hours a day or sleeping on a cot sometimes, which was a major waste of time and loss of opportunities for contact.

1 minute ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Yes, the dramatics need to stop with them having a babysitter at all times. Isn't De ja 14 or 15? Tess is older as well. I think you can be left home alone starting at age 11 (unless you're Kevin McCallister.) 😉

That isn't all of what motivated Randall to object to Beth's dance plans -- he set off on that after Deja told him how she had never had a regular routine with family and how much she liked it. He was off to the races after that. Probably an overreaction (which he then laid at Beth's feet), but it isn't just about the kids having a babysitter at all times.

Lady Calypso · April 4, 2019

44 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'm sure the kids would rather move than have their parents divorce. But, really, kids are never, nor should they really be, consulted in parents' career and moving decisions. They don't have enough information or ilife experience. People move all the time and they're fine. Although, I'm probably projecting, because I wanted nothing more than to move when I was a kid. But, we couldn't because "your father's job is here and they probably wouldn't be any nicer to you at a different school anyway."

Them moving is their best possible solution. The fighting is obviously going to stop, which means Tess and Deja won't have to feel the tension in the home, and they'll be a family unit again.

I think what makes this move a bit more difficult than most, besides the downsizing and Tess/Annie having to adjust to a different kind of lifestyle, is their parents taking on entirely new career paths, which means their schedules are going to be different than what they're used to. Although they had to deal with Randall buying and renovating the apartment building last year, and have had to deal with their father being home a lot less over the last few months so it'll probably still feel the same, just in a new place.

The kids should be fine, overall, but I really do want to see them react next season. It really IS a lot for them and they should be able to get upset, even if it's ultimately not their choice and it's better for them in the long run.

Katy M · April 4, 2019

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Them moving is their best possible solution. The fighting is obviously going to stop, which means Tess and Deja won't have to feel the tension in the home, and they'll be a family unit again.

I think what makes this move a bit more difficult than most, besides the downsizing and Tess/Annie having to adjust to a different kind of lifestyle, is their parents taking on entirely new career paths, which means their schedules are going to be different than what they're used to. Although they had to deal with Randall buying and renovating the apartment building last year, and have had to deal with their father being home a lot less over the last few months so it'll probably still feel the same, just in a new place.

The kids should be fine, overall, but I really do want to see them react next season. It really IS a lot for them and they should be able to get upset, even if it's ultimately not their choice and it's better for them in the long run.

Oh, sure. I agree with all that. I just don't really see them as "screwed over" just because they have to move. They probably would have had to end up downsizing even if they didn't move out of the town they were in. If that's even possible. Even if Beth got that "regular" job, she probably wouldn't be home right after school, so that was really only apparently so that they could get more money to pay for the daycare, not so that the kids would have more time with a parent. Randall, again according ot his words, used to work 90 hours a week with a fairly long commute, so the Tess and Annie are already used to not seeing at least their dad that much during a regular week.

Empress1 · April 4, 2019

8 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Yes, the dramatics need to stop with them having a babysitter at all times. Isn't De ja 14 or 15? Tess is older as well. I think you can be left home alone starting at age 11 (unless you're Kevin McCallister.)

I think she's a little younger, maybe 13, but your point stands. Tess was upstairs doing her own thing when Zoe and Kevin got there, probably not paying Beth any mind.

6 minutes ago, kili said:

Kids move all the time for their parent's jobs and they survive. It is not the end of the world. They'll do much better moving to Philly than having their parent's get divorced or rarely seeing their Dad. This is the best choice. I laud Beth for coming up with a reasonable compromise.

And they're not moving that far. It's two hours. Randall was going down and back in the same day. I've worked with people who work in NYC and live in Philly. Half my family is from NYC and we saw them all the time when I was growing up. If we were going to Brooklyn for Thanksgiving, that was a same-day up and back thing. They can visit their old friends if they want. (Really, this applies most to Tess because Deja didn't appear to have made many new friends at her new school yet and Annie is young enough that, realistically, the friends from her first and second grade classes will fade out, like they do with most of us.) All the activities they were doing, they can do in Philly. I was in Girl Scouts in Philly (I hated it, but that's neither here nor there). With social media, it's very hard to lose touch nowadays. I'm sure there will be an adjustment period (being the new kid is hard and it appears that they're moving in the middle of the school year? I've lost track of when in the year this is, in show time), but I don't see the kids getting screwed over.

General Days · April 4, 2019

12 hours ago, Empress1 said:

IIRC it's north Philly. Blighted area, very under-resourced schools. It's the kind of neighborhood where people would see Randall and his $140K Mercedes (though if they're scaling back, he should trade it in for something cheaper anyway) and be like "You're moving TO north Philly?"

I had wondered about the feasibility (and zoning issues) of carving out space on the ground floor of William's building for a dance studio, but it doesn't sound like the place to plant a new business -- more like the place a thriving business might open a satellite, in order to help revitalize a flagging neighborhood.

I suspect they'll move to one of the other neighborhoods mentioned, keep William's building, and Randall will manage to make some money off it, and that's how they'll TV-explain the family's financial situation.

12 hours ago, preeya said:

WTF is a corn sandwich? I've heard of ketchup sandwiches, but corn.

A corn sandwich is not a thing.

That was insulting to the viewers and to the character of Jack. I've seen him manage to order pizza before, when Rebecca hasn't been home. They weren't living on the streets, so I can't really believe that, if there wasn't even any peanut butter in the house, Jack didn't just take the kids to McDonalds on the way home from their first visit to Rebecca.

9 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I'm just going to throw a few ideas out. Maybe Kevin has stayed in touch with Nicky over the years. And, if Rebecca has dementia, maybe when she sees Nicky she thinks it's Jack? So, they calm her down by having Nicky sit with her.

And maybe Rebecca isnt even sick and this has nothing to do with her ?

I'd have to watch again, but I'm pretty sure Rebecca was in a hospital-style bed.

kili · April 4, 2019

Quote

if there wasn't even any peanut butter in the house, Jack didn't just take the kids to McDonalds on the way home from their first visit to Rebecca.

Wasn't that jeep their only vehicle? T-boning that other car probably left the jeep in the shop. So, they were probably taxi-ing around or relying in Miguel to drive them. Jack probably forgot to request a stop at the McDonald's due to his head spinning with worry (one of the reasons he failed so miserably at easing the kid's fears was because he was fearful and disjointed himself).

I refuse to believe that Rebecca wouldn't have had something in the house that would have made a more suitable dinner. Cans of soup or packages of pasta are staples of mere bachelor pads. Rebecca was a stay-at-home Mom so she probably had a better pantry than that.

Even if corn and hamburger buns were the only things they had, serve the corn as the main and toast the buns to serve as the side bread. That's got to appear more edible than what he served (plus, easier to eat).

Empress1 · April 4, 2019

5 minutes ago, kili said:

Even if corn and hamburger buns were the only things they had, serve the corn as the main and toast the buns to serve as the side bread. That's got to appear more edible than what he served (plus, easier to eat).

I had the same thought. It would not occur to me to make sandwiches if all I had was corn and buns/bread, because ... what? If that's all I had and I had no money for outside food, it would be corn and toast. NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

I had a friend in high school who had spent a chunk of her life in poverty and she mentioned having to eat mayonnaise sandwiches. In Bastard Out of Carolina, the matriarch of the family has to feed her kids crackers and ketchup. If all you have is condiments and something to put them on, that's one thing - sandwiches follow. But corn sandwiches? Do better, Jack.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Empress1

Dminches · April 4, 2019

For a show that likes to drag out drama how did Randall and Beth resolve their deep-rooted issues in less than a day? In the morning Beth proclaimed she couldn’t see the door. By the afternoon she had an appointment with a real estate agent and saw a building which would appropriately serve as her studio. Really?

Also, if they are going to live in Philly they are definitely going to need to send their kids to private school. How are they going to afford that?

In a positive note, Kevin continues to be the best character on the show. It is not even close.

4N6MAL · April 4, 2019

On 4/2/2019 at 11:05 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Feel so bad for Tess. The conversation she has to have with her friends. "I'm gay. And I'm moving to Philadelphia." LOL.

This will be perfect for her. Fresh start in a new school/town.

ItCouldBeWorse · April 4, 2019

On 4/4/2019 at 7:22 AM, Katy M said:

How are the kids losing? They're just moving. None of them are in high school, yet, so it's the perfect time to move.

And now Deja will be able to start HS with her age group, the way her teacher recommended.

Edited April 8, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

MsJamieDornan · April 4, 2019

1 hour ago, General Days said:

I'd have to watch again, but I'm pretty sure Rebecca was in a hospital-style bed.

Yes, she is. What I meant was, maybe she is just elderly and really doesn't have dementia or alzheimers etc.

Corky10 · April 4, 2019

I have worked with patients that have dementia for over 13 years. So help me if they make this all Hollywood-ish about dementia...I'm out! The movie Still Alice was sooooooo unrealistic and I hated every second of it. PLEASE...consult with people that deal with this disease, the patients, the families, institutions, etc before you make it all hollywood-like. Okay...rant over!

ItCouldBeWorse · April 4, 2019

On 4/4/2019 at 9:41 AM, nlkm9 said:

I have moved several times and it is really tough for the children--we have Deja, who still struggles between her new life and her old life, who might possibly get into a bad crowd, it sounds like they cant afford a nice private school where they are at, we have a teenager who is coming out and with all that has to deal with all new friends, school, etc and the little one will probably be ok. Moving is listed as one of the most stressful things in life and these 3 who have had such turmoil will now have to adjust to all of this *just* so they can live their dreams. The only positive I see is that the kids can hang out at Beth's studio if she doesnt want them alone. If I hadnt moved 4 times and lived through, I couldnt possibly have an opinion. but I lived it, and it sucks.

I definitely agreed that moving can be very stressful for the kids, but there's no way Randall could have survived a new job with the same stress levels as his old one near where they lived. Let's say, hypothetically, that the best job he could get was in Boston, or Philly, or Delaware, and Beth still couldn't get a job that would support the family; should he have (after consulting with Beth) 1) not taken the job, 2) taken the job and committed to a terrible commute, 3) taken the job and gotten a weekday apartment near work and only come home on weekends, or, 4) should the family have moved? This happens to a lot of people.

Now, one could argue that he didn't look for other jobs closer to home, and that's a valid argument. But adults are allowed to want a change in their careers (with their spouses on board.) It's better than the other types of mid-life crises people have.

As to the kids: Let's say Annie is about 8. If she didn't even notice the stress between her parents, she's still young enough to make a fresh crop of friends in a new school without too much difficulty. Tess wants a fresh start-this is her opportunity. I think Deja is strong enough to stay away from a bad crowd, and now she can start in a new HS with her age group (where her teacher said she belonged instead of with younger kids) who will also be new to HS. Also, that whole subplot about her teacher publishing her essay revealing her backstory will be moot. She can choose to reveal her adoptive status to people or not. Instead of being the former foster kid, she'll now be the new councilman's kid!

Edited April 7, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

txhorns79 · April 4, 2019

1 hour ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Yes, she is. What I meant was, maybe she is just elderly and really doesn't have dementia or alzheimers etc.

Eh, I figure Randall wouldn't have felt the need to identify himself to Rebecca as her son if she wasn't having significant cognitive problems. Though more to the point, being elderly is not something that causes someone to forget their children.

ItCouldBeWorse · April 4, 2019

On 4/2/2019 at 10:04 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Other than that, I loved Kevin's talk with Tess. He's always been able to connect with Tess and Annie, and this scene was no different. He's a terrific uncle.

Did anyone think that Kevin was going to take Tess shopping for a new outfit for class photos? I know that new clothes weren't really her problem, but it would have been a fun bonding experience.

I also thought that perhaps Kevin had gay female friends in the entertainment business. He certainly could not have introduced Tess to anyone without her parents' permission, but he could have asked such a friend for advice about their teen years and passed it on. Wouldn't it be great, for instance, if he were friends with Lena Waithe!

Edited April 5, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

ItCouldBeWorse · April 4, 2019

4 hours ago, kili said:

Fundamentally, the logic of moving to Philly is because Randall chose to run for election there and won. Either the kids rarely see their father (long commutes, long hours, sleeping in Philly) or they move to Philly.

I don't get where Beth is getting the blame here. Randall made the impulsive jerk decision that necessitates this move. Beth is pragmatically suggesting the only reasonable solution that will keep the family together.

Randall quitting at this point isn't fair to his constituents, his co-workers or the city of Philly. It sets a bad example for the kids and it would probably crush him mentally.

Kids move all the time for their parent's jobs and they survive. It is not the end of the world. They'll do much better moving to Philly than having their parent's get divorced or rarely seeing their Dad. This is the best choice. I laud Beth for coming up with a reasonable compromise.

Well said.

ItCouldBeWorse · April 4, 2019

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I'm sure there will be an adjustment period (being the new kid is hard and it appears that they're moving in the middle of the school year? I've lost track of when in the year this is, in show time), but I don't see the kids getting screwed over.

I hope with all my heart that they waited until the end of the school year. I think that's likely as it would have taken some time to sell their house and pack up.

Katy M · April 4, 2019

5 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I hope with all my heart that they waited until the end of the school year. I think that's likely as it would have taken some time to sell their house and pack up.

Yes, I'm sure they waited until the end of the school year.

Empress1 · April 4, 2019

42 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think Deja is strong enough to stay away from a bad crowd, and now she can start in a new HS with her age group (where her teacher said she belonged instead of with younger kids) who will also be new to HS

I could see Deja thriving at Central or Masterman - two Philly public schools that are some of the best in the country. They're ethnically diverse (she initially complained about her mostly-white Alpine school, hence Randall taking her to the Philly community center) and academically rigorous, very hard to get into. If Tess gets into Masterman, which is middle and high school, they'd only have to worry about school for Annie.

27 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Did anyone think that Kevin was going to take Tess shopping for a new outfit for class photos? I know that new clothes weren't really her problem, but it would have been a fun bonding experience.

I laughed when Tess was like "I have nothing to wear! I hate all my clothes!" because I do that all the time. I did that when I was getting dressed for work yesterday. (I really do need new business casual clothes; I'd bet Tess's wardrobe is bigger than mine.)

I really loved that conversation between Tess and Kevin. Beth once said that Kevin was great at meeting her kids where they are and not talking down to them, and that's totally true. (William was the same way - he talked to the girls in age-appropriate ways but never talked down to them.) Like, looking at him, people probably write him off as just the fun uncle who lets them eat candy or whatever (and I'm sure he does some of that), but he also really cares about them and KNOWS them.

Melanie Liburd is so beautiful. I need her skin care or makeup regimen immediately.

Nancybeth · April 4, 2019

My dad was military. We moved all the time, including in the middle of 7th grade and again right before I started high school. Did it suck? Yeah, kinda. Did I survive and in fact thrive? Yes. Moving makes kids resilient and I'm sure they would rather relocate than have their parents divorce or have Randall constantly driving back and forth to Philly and missing all the little things in their lives.

Katy M · April 4, 2019

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Did anyone think that Kevin was going to take Tess shopping for a new outfit for class photos? I know that new clothes weren't really her problem, but it would have been a fun bonding experience.

Yeah, that would have been nice. What I didn't actually like was Kevin telling her that her mom would take her shopping since they're having money problems.

SueB · April 4, 2019

Note: I am 100% spoiler-free so anything I speculate is 100% my random musings

The Door:
- I think this is a great solution that is NOT Beth getting lost in Randall. I think what Beth wants is to help young dancers reach their dreams -- and it's easier to find that path in urban Philadelphia than cushy suburbia NJ. I have zero doubt that the funds from the house sale cover buying both the town house (buying it outright, no mortgage) and keeping the mortgage on the studio very modest and within their means. Philadelphia has a wide variety of neighborhoods and if Randall's constituents were okay with him living in NJ, they'll be okay if they live in a school district that meets Beth & Randall's expectations. House size matters much less than a quality school. They'll also prioritize their monthly income on the girl's school vs 'stuff'. Knowing Beth & the girls - they'll Marie Kondo up the place and it will be fabulous.
- We know she makes the dance studio work because in S2 we saw her teaching ballerina's that appear to be at a similar skill level she herself achieved. It may take a while to develop the clientelle base but the point of this dream is to run the studio her way - and profitability can't be a make or break. Every conversation they had makes it clear that Randall/Beth understand her work is not an income source at least at the start. Which is why I think Randall IS supporting her dream and not just getting everything he wants. It'll be hard work. BTW: F*ckYouVeryMuch to snide Randall, Beth's studio boss, and even Beth herself (because we saw her specifically looking at an overweight suburbia adult student) for suggesting overweight board housewives are unworthy clients. It's not the clientele for the studio Beth dreams of - young ingenues with a possible city ballet in their future - but they should not bite the hands that feed them and fat-shaming is gross.
- I think Beth & Randall will personally thrive in the urban environment. Deja has a good chance as well. Tess and Annie more challenged. Tess with her identity crisis firmly in place could go either way. Since we've seen future Tess, we know it works out. Annie may suffer the most in finding her new friends. She's going into 4th grade (I think). So she will have a couple of elementary school years before she starts the vicious middle school years.

Kevin's Future Fatherhood:
- I wasn't too pissed at the way he brought it up to Zoe at R&B's place. He doesn't understand that you could love kids and be great with them but not want any yourself. It is absolutely Zoe's choice but it's just creeping into a mainstream choice - and with that progression, broader understanding will be available to people who hadn't considered that before. He saw the disconnect, asked about it, and knew right away the answers were going to be different than what he hoped for. Bless Zoe for saying it's the wrong decision for him. Zoe TRULY loves Kevin. And Kevin truly loves Zoe. For the sake of drama, they had Kevin make statements that caused Zoe to make an assumption regarding children. And Zoe was gunshy about even committing to move in - I can imagine Kevin was avoiding talking about anything more than that for fear of her running away. Personally, I think that after the age of 30, this topic needs to be clear before you move in with someone. And yes, I picked 30 for the obvious biological clock reasons but also a consideration for men. Even if men CAN produce children well after that, dad responsibilities are timeconsuimg and exhausting - waiting later IS harder for most, depending on career and fitness. But these two had an unconventional romance and the conversation didn't happen. Again, bless Zoe for forcing the issue and looking out for Kevin with a loving heart. He so much wanted her to be in his life but she knew him well enough to see that he wanted to be a Dad. That's a yearning, that if you have it, is not one to just compromise away. It's an issue that won't age well.

Grandmother Helper:
- I thought Rebecca did fairly well. I give her a solid B+ on trying to be helpful/supportive without overstepping. The 'cold' comment was her anxiety and a mistake - but I know it's natural for her to be anxious at this point. I'm also so VERY proud of Kate for both establishing her boundaries and expressing her challenges with triggers. I've never felt better about the two of them. It was THEIR conversation that made me cry.

Futureland:
- I am THRILLED that Kevin has a big house (either acting worked out well for him or something else but Kevin needs his creature comforts and I'd hate to see him fail). I'm also thrilled he has a mini-me child.
- Alzheimer's bread crumbs: the weird behavor in the waiting room, the detailed notes to remember, and now the car crash induced head injury (which increases probability of early onset Alzheimer's) were pretty much a neon signs pointing to "It's Randall, I'm your son." Which means it could all be a fakeout.
- Baby Jack lives!!! We don't know if he has disabilities but we know he lives. ~~As does Kate.~~ (can't verify that yet)
- Randall & Beth still love each other and appear to be married. Not a given because the whole "where does Kevin live" is really confusing -- maybe he has a lovely 50 acre home outside Philadelphia? But I think the door Beth found basically works.
- Toby's mystery is still mysterious.

Casting deserves an Emmy:
- Mini-Kevin Jr is another perfect pick, just like mini-Beth was. These child actors are knocking it out of the park with the mannerisms and intonations. But I can also see that there is some feedback going on and the adult actors (Big3+) may also be merging mannerisms with the kids. All in all, a masterpiece in casting.

MVP: Deja
- Pulling a Pearson with the 'meaningful location moment'! "Not now, I'm doing a speech." I LOVED that speech. It was real. It was Deja. And it pull Randall back into focus. Her character growth has been extraordinary. I'm really glad she's on the show.

Edited April 4, 2019 by SueB

ams1001 · April 4, 2019

22 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

There was a fantasy sequence with Kevin and Sophie's future. They used tween Kevin for that scene.

Thanks; I don't remember near as many details as some people. I couldn't think what that would be referring to (I would assume it would say future son, or just son, if it was referring to the kid in the flash forward).

doodlebug · April 4, 2019

Quote

Also, if they are going to live in Philly they are definitely going to need to send their kids to private school. How are they going to afford that?

As others have noted, like most big cities, Philly has some outstanding public school options, especially for kids who are good students and motivated to learn and whose parents are willing to take the time to seek them out.

There is also Uncle Kevin. While Randall would probably be reluctant to ask Kevin to support them in other ways, I have no doubt that Kevin would step up immediately and offer to cover tuition for his nieces who he obviously cares about very much. As an aunt who is single and without kids and who has a good income (nowhere near what Kevin makes though), I have certainly aided my nieces and nephews in getting the educations that they needed and would've done even more had it come to that. No way Kevin would let Randall's kids flounder educationally if it was only a question of making a tuition payment.

PRgal · April 4, 2019

56 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I could see Deja thriving at Central or Masterman - two Philly public schools that are some of the best in the country. They're ethnically diverse (she initially complained about her mostly-white Alpine school, hence Randall taking her to the Philly community center) and academically rigorous, very hard to get into. If Tess gets into Masterman, which is middle and high school, they'd only have to worry about school for Annie.

I laughed when Tess was like "I have nothing to wear! I hate all my clothes!" because I do that all the time. I did that when I was getting dressed for work yesterday. (I really do need new business casual clothes; I'd bet Tess's wardrobe is bigger than mine.)

I really loved that conversation between Tess and Kevin. Beth once said that Kevin was great at meeting her kids where they are and not talking down to them, and that's totally true. (William was the same way - he talked to the girls in age-appropriate ways but never talked down to them.) Like, looking at him, people probably write him off as just the fun uncle who lets them eat candy or whatever (and I'm sure he does some of that), but he also really cares about them and KNOWS them.

Melanie Liburd is so beautiful. I need her skin care or makeup regimen immediately.

I assume Central and Masterman require entrance exams. Would they even be able to be considered if they missed the application deadline (which I assume would be some time in November or December, with exams taking place in January/February)?

MsJamieDornan · April 4, 2019

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Though more to the point, being elderly is not something that causes someone to forget their children.

If they have hearing and sight problems, maybe.

He also may do that if she is in a coma of some kind.

Edited April 4, 2019 by MsJamieDornan

MsJamieDornan · April 4, 2019

I'm sure Randall will be fine selling their home.

Quote

In fact, it's one of the richest towns in the US. Forbes listed it as the most expensive zip code in the US back in 2012 when the average price of a house in Alpine came in at a whopping $4.25 million.

There is an empty lot in Alpine you can buy for almost 3 million.

ShadowFacts · April 4, 2019

24 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

If they have hearing and sight problems, maybe.

He also may do that if she is in a coma of some kind.

If she's blind, she would know his voice without him introducing himself. If hearing impaired, she would know him by sight. If both, he wouldn't have needed to speak, or at least he would have spoken more loudly. Adding "your son" really makes it seem like she doesn't know him. I feel like that's what was making it hard for him and Tess to go there, that they are strangers to her.

nlkm9 · April 4, 2019

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Them moving is their best possible solution. The fighting is obviously going to stop, which means Tess and Deja won't have to feel the tension in the home, and they'll be a family unit again.

I think what makes this move a bit more difficult than most, besides the downsizing and Tess/Annie having to adjust to a different kind of lifestyle, is their parents taking on entirely new career paths, which means their schedules are going to be different than what they're used to. Although they had to deal with Randall buying and renovating the apartment building last year, and have had to deal with their father being home a lot less over the last few months so it'll probably still feel the same, just in a new place.

The kids should be fine, overall, but I really do want to see them react next season. It really IS a lot for them and they should be able to get upset, even if it's ultimately not their choice and it's better for them in the long run.

agreed--they should not feel they have to hold anything in, (or make long speeches), this is going to be a hectic life for a while. I would most worried about the school thing and the fact Deja although she seems to be on her way has had a ton of issues, and Tess is struggling with her identity. I feel for all of them. I wish Beth had just shut Randall down the second he said I want to run for council. but then we wouldnt have compelling tv.

Edited April 4, 2019 by nlkm9
mistake

nlkm9 · April 4, 2019

9 hours ago, Katy M said:

How are the kids losing? They're just moving. None of them are in high school, yet, so it's the perfect time to move.

this is one of the many things i read before our last move. Moving is extraordinarily difficult on kids, and were not even touching on Tess's struggle and Deja's trauma. I really feel bad that Deja is being uprooted again--just my opinionhttps://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/thinking-about-kids/201007/moving-is-tough-kids

MJS · April 4, 2019

I thought the corn sandwiches were Jack's idea of fun. “Here’s a great meal I used to eat before I met your mom!” Then you eat it and realized how much your bachelor cooking sucked. He was trying to make it a dad adventure.

I've tried recreating some of my favorite grad school meals and man they were bad...

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