S04.E17: All About Eve (2018.03.31)

[MarkHB]

Quote

Supergirl must deal with the destructive aftermath of Lex's nefarious plans. Shocked at what Lex has created, Supergirl faces her biggest challenge yet.

This episode also marks the 60th anniversary of Action Comics #252 hitting the stands on March 31, 1959!  Happy Birthday, Supergirl!  #Supergirl60

[bettername2come]

Lex tried to kill James 8 times?!!! Eight times?!! 

All right, James is officially the character in the Arrowverse I most want to protect. God, no wonder he left Metropolis and put on a supersuit, the guy has so many reasons to have major issues. I have so many questions about his backstory with Clark now and how long it took Clark to give the guy his damn watch.

I liked Supergirl's guilt over Clark leaving her in charge of earth and Lex quickly putting it in danger. Misplaced, but very believable. Loved Alex and Lena confronting Supergirl and telling her they believed her. 

This episode was only a little about Eve. 

[cambridgeguy]

I guess J'onn didn't bother checking the news before he decided to leave the planet(!) for some reason?  Not cool, dude. 

[mxc90]

In one scene Lena tells Alex she "knows" Eve and not long later she states there are many secrets about Eve. Make up your mind.

Lex tried to kill James 8 times?! That's a commitment.

No other news reporter or anchor noticed Eve's change on camera which would lead to question if the senator's decision was legitimate? Just "eagle eye" Kara noticed.

So sad seeing James and J'onn crying/emoting in the same episode. 

I wonder it they were tempted to use the title "Killing Eve" for this episode?

Edited April 1, 2019 by mxc90

[mommalib]

My man James is a survivor for real.

[tennisgurl]

God, Lex has tried to kill James eight times?! No wonder James left Metropolis and has had so many issues with figuring out his identity! Lex really knows how to hold a grudge apparently. Poor James, its pretty amazing he does so well considering. He even saved Lockwoods son, although I doubt either of them will be very appreciative. 

I cant wait for Lockwood to realize his whole rise has been because Lex needed a patsy. Thats gonna be hilarious.

Not as much Eve as I expected actually, although she does apparently have enough humanity in her to cure her cousin of cancer, even when it was a risk. How did she become such a Lex groupie anyway? 

How did no one see that the person on TV was Eve in disguise?! It was right there! Did Kara need her superpowers to just see the totally obvious? And people are jumping right to thinking Supergirl is evil, huh? No, it all seems totally normal for Supergirl, who has even protected the same assholes who want her gone or dead for just existing, to just go crazy and evil all of the sudden. It couldn't be mind control or a clone or robot or red kryptonite or any of the billion things that we know have happened before, dont be silly! And this all from the president who made a domestic terrorist in a stupid mask a part of his administration. So, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Seriously, did President Linda Carter not know her VP at all?!

Kara was snappy with Lena, even after Lena just cured cancer, but I did like her conversation about how hard it was to be the one protecting Earth without Clark around. It felt very real for her. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by tennisgurl

[quarks]

The news footage would have been recorded as well as televised, right? So even if no one else noticed/saw that flickering Eve moment, there's video of it somewhere that Supergirl and Friends can use to prove that something hinky's probably going on - even if the last few years haven't given people more than one reason to be skeptical.

Why didn't J'onn let anyone know that he was off on a short trip?

And geesh, Lex. You manage to poison an entire courtroom, turn the sun red, turn Red Daughter into a Supergirl double and you somehow can't manage to kill James after trying 8 times?

I did like the Lena/Alex/Supergirl teamup, though. And always good to see Carl Lumbly back on my screen.

[Jediknight]

Are they setting up a Lockwood redemption angle?  He seemed bothered by the Senator changing to a yes vote and her saying "Just take the win", Witwer played it like Lockwood was wondering just what is happening when talking to Jimmy, even his look after Red Kara took off had some confusion.  Like, even he knows that Supergirl wouldn't do this.  Are they setting him up to believe that Supergirl is innocent, that's there's somebody controlling everything, and he renounces his old self, which causes his followers to abandon him because he's gone soft.  Just seems like they're setting up something else with him.

His kid on the other hand, was acting way more guilty than everybody else.

Good job to the writers for wrapping up the Lena still working on haranel story quickly.  Just a quick conversation between Kara and Lena, and that was it.  There was no unnecessary 6 episode drama.

Kara, if you see a doppelganger of yourself hovering above the White House after just attacking it, don't stare, tackle her.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Jediknight

[Oreo2234]

I'm glad J'onn is back to being Martian Manhunter not a pacifist. Now can Alex go back to being the lethal agent she was instead of this stun gun nonsense?

[ottoDbusdriver]

11 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Kara, if you see a doppelganger of yourself hovering above the White House after just attacking it, don't stare, tackle her.

All she had to do was fly up and confront Red Daughter/Kaznian Supergirl, and the protesters would have all went "hey, there's 2 Supergirls", and at least there would have some doubt raised about what happened at the White House, and that maybe, just maybe, Supergirl was being framed.

But no, we're off to calling Supergirl public enemy #1 and declaring martial law.  That seems a bit extreme.

[Lantern7]

Bit of a letdown this week. I chalk it up to Lex withdrawal. Also, "All About Eve" implied we'd learn more about Eve, but she was barely in the episode. We did get his dopey aunt (grandaunt?) though. Even the bit where she faked being burned was sweetly hilarious, in a "she can't fool anyone, can she"? way.

Of course, the bit we saw last week about the POTUS declaring war on Supergirl was shoved to the back. Did Red Daughter straight-up murder people, or just burn them? Either way, she is committed. Smart of Kara to look for a hiding place lined with lead, dumb of her to not see Eve was a hologram. And then she got shoved into poisonous armor. Was that because the producers wanted to give us another taste of Kara's head, a la Iron Man?

Basically, J'onn's subplot was "His dad tells him to do him."

So James has a superpower now? I guess it would be too much to ask that he change into a giant rampaging turtle. Speaking of remembering the Silver Age . . .

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

Lex tried to kill James 8 times?!!! Eight times?!!

1 hour ago, mxc90 said:

Lex tried to kill James 8 times?! That's a commitment.

1 hour ago, mommalib said:

My man James is a survivor for real.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

God, Lex has tried to kill James eight times?! No wonder James left Metropolis and has had so many issues with figuring out his identity! Lex really knows how to hold a grudge apparently.

I'm guessing all attempts (assuming the last one wasn't counted) were for trying to badger Superman. And I'm betting half of those happened when Lois was either away or already kidnapped. Now I'm remember a Jerry Seinfeld bit about how useless Jimmy Olsen was on the TV show, and now I'm imagining a tied up James trying to make a phone call with his nose. I think that's funny with either rotary or modern.

[Oreo2234]

Quote

So James has superpower now?

I hope not. Supergirl already has 3 super powered sidekicks. She shouldn't need this many. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Oreo2234

[childeroland]

I think Supergirl was too weak from the Kryptonite to fly up and confront the twin.

[VCRTracking]

Man, I already miss Lex.

Nice seeing Lillian though. Brenda Strong is still great at playing play icy cold bitches.

Favorite bit of the episode:

(Eve giving instructions slowly to Red Daughter)
RD: I speak English better than you.

Eve: Whatever, it's not a contest!

I really hope both of them survive the finale.

Loved seeing Kara, Alex and Lena all working together. Also Kara apologizing to Lena.

4 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Lex tried to kill James 8 times?!!! Eight times?!! 

All right, James is officially the character in the Arrowverse I most want to protect. God, no wonder he left Metropolis and put on a supersuit, the guy has so many reasons to have major issues. I have so many questions about his backstory with Clark now and how long it took Clark to give the guy his damn watch.

4 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Lex tried to kill James 8 times?! That's a commitment.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

God, Lex has tried to kill James eight times?! No wonder James left Metropolis and has had so many issues with figuring out his identity! Lex really knows how to hold a grudge apparently. Poor James, its pretty amazing he does so well considering. He even saved Lockwoods son, although I doubt either of them will be very appreciative. 

2 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I'm guessing all attempts (assuming the last one wasn't counted) were for trying to badger Superman. And I'm betting half of those happened when Lois was either away or already kidnapped. Now I'm remember a Jerry Seinfeld bit about how useless Jimmy Olsen was on the TV show, and now I'm imagining a tied up James trying to make a phone call with his nose. I think that's funny with either rotary or modern.

It reminds me of this old Nick at Nite promo for the 50s Superman TV show "The 30 minute Jimmy Olson Workout" where thugs can build up their upper body by beating up Jimmy! It's at the 5:12 mark of this video:

[BaggythePanther]

I was amused that Lena and Alex were so surprised when Kara admitted she was wrong about the Harun-El. They were prepared for a much bigger argument. Wait till they find out Supergirl’s secret!

The current administration has always leaned towards anti-alien sentiment and the president was not too fond of Supergirl. I believe that he would take what happened at face value because it doesn’t benefit him to look any deeper. I’m sure there are plenty of people and aliens who think Supergirl is innocent, but they probably are regular joes without any political power. 

Theyve never mentioned if there are aliens in Congress right? You don’t have to be a natural born citizen to be elected to Congress.

ETA: We better get Evil Twin shenanigans at some point- two Supergirls in a room each trying to convince Alex/Lena they’re the real Supergirl.

Edited April 1, 2019 by BaggythePanther
Added an additional thought.

[Chyromaniac]

Lex Luthor tried to kill James eight times- that's as many as four two's, and that's terrible.

[thuganomics85]

I guess the show couldn't overload itself too much on Lex (hey, I'm sure Jon Cryer isn't cheap!), but at least we got another appearance from Lillian!  Brenda Strong was great as always and I'm curious to see if she'll actually end up being an ally for Lena (since it looks like Lex was actually planning on killing her), or will this be another act, and poor Lena will continue to get betrayed over and over again.

Speaking of which, James really does have the worst luck ever, huh?  Lex almost killed him eight times, now?  Damn!  No wonder he is finally shell-shocked at this point.  Glad it looks like he is finally getting help.

I knew J'onn's storyline was going to end with him accepting who he really is, but it was cool seeing a version of M'yrnn again.  Carl Lumbly truly was a perfect choice for the role.  Now, hopefully J'onn gets back to Earth soon, since the shit has really hit the fan!

So, the grand plan was; of course; disguising Kasian Supergirl and making everyone think she is the normal one, while she causes death and destruction over the anti-alien bill getting passed.  Now, of course, considering everything that has happened in this universe, you'd think people would consider possibilities like dopplegangers, evil twins, or other alien craziness, but I'm sure it will work (for now), and most everyone will turn on her.  Interestingly, it looked like freaking Ben Lockwood of all people was having doubts at the end.  Hmmm.

Finally, once again, it can not be said enough that Baker is lame and I still want to know how he became President Lynda Carter's VP, considering how he seems to not hold any of her views or political beliefs.

[AnimeMania]

Of course the most powerful alien at the moment decides to take a road trip off-world.

Why does Nia have to go to the Fortress of Solitude to take a nap?

This would have been a perfect time for Jimmy Olsen to find out that he had super powers. I would have loved to see Jimmy jump up and half beat the snot out of "Cosplaying Commie Girl". Watch her run back to Kasnia with her tail between her legs. Then Jimmy would be the symbol that humans rally around and not the Agents of Liberty. You let me down show.

On 3/23/2019 at 11:15 AM, MarkHB said:

My submission for caption the cartoon:

Superman: Great Guns! A girl, Flying! It-uh-must be an Illusion!

SuperGirl: Look again, Superman! it's me - Supergirl! and I have all your powers!

Superman: Look at that spaceship! Girl's shouldn't be allowed to Drive!, Let alone Fly!

[MarkHB]

I have a hunch, based on one particular camera shot, that Lockwood's son who we saw in DC is actually Otis in disguise.  The son is probably tied up somewhere, and that's why we got to see Otis save Mikhail last week, to make the kid still being alive seem plausible.

I, too, hope Red Daughter and Eve stick around (as I do for the remaining members of the Elite).  This show needs more fun villains!

I was disappointed that no mention was made of #Supergirl60.

[AngelKitty]

3 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

This show needs more fun villains!

Indeed. This show just needs to be more fun in general.

[Trini]

Not much to add right now, but I will say that this was a good episode with a really misleading title!

[quarks]

One added thought: the National Mall/Washington Monument/White House areas are filled with security cameras everywhere, not to mention tourists happily wandering around taking pictures/videos/etc. There certainly should have been people taking video of the alien protest. Which is to say that in addition to the video of Flickering Eve from the press conference, someone should have security or other footage of Supergirl getting captured by the Kryptonite suit.

[Writing Wrongs]

Has Alex always been so tight with Lena? It feels like she has got a crush on her or something.

How long will it be necessary for Supergirl to hide her identity from Alex? Will her memories kick back in soon?

[ACW]

13 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Good job to the writers for wrapping up the Lena still working on haranel story quickly.  Just a quick conversation between Kara and Lena, and that was it.  There was no unnecessary 6 episode drama.

Except that it was underlined in this very episode that Lena is still lying to Kara (and Alex).

And we know that Kara is still lying to Lena (and Alex).

And Lex *and* Lillian Luthor both know the truth(s). This won't end well.

I'm disappointed that we didn't get the full text of Lex's letter to Lena (yet).  For all we know, he may have already spilled the Kara-beans.

And I *still* think that vision-Dad was Manchester Black.

[Trini]

52 minutes ago, ACW said:

And I *still* think that vision-Dad was Manchester Black.

I'm still clinging to a shred of hope that Manchester isn't dead, because the way they ended his story made no sense.

[Winston Wolfe]

5 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

How long will it be necessary for Supergirl to hide her identity from Alex? Will her memories kick back in soon?

I've said it before and now it's truer than ever: Kara's secret ID is a joke.  Think about all the "non-super friends" who must know her true identity.  Kat Grant is a friend, no threat there.  But Lex knows (and by association Eve must know as well).  Russian Supergirl knows.  Lillian Luthor knows.  Manchester Black plucked the Fortress of Solitude's location from J'onn's mind, you know it didn't stop there.  He likely knew Kara and Clark's real ID - if so, did he tell the rest of the Elite?   The Snake Lady certainly seemed to know.  The crazy guy that worshiped Kryptonians (is he still alive?) knows. Even if you pull out the now-deceased Manchester and make the bold assumption that the rest of the Elite doesn't know, that's still a small village of people, folks.

Having said that, possibly the best episode of the series, absenting the "young Alex and Kara" one.  Even the small story flaws (which are not going away) were tolerable with enough suspension of belief.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Winston Wolfe
added emphasis

[iMonrey]

Quote

I've said it before and now it's truer than ever: Kara's secret ID is a joke.  Think about all the "non-super friends" who must know her true identity.  Kat Grant is a friend, no threat there.  But Lex knows (and by association Eve must know as well).  Russian Supergirl knows.  Lillian Luthor knows.  Manchester Black plucked the Fortress of Solitude's location from J'onn's mind, you know it didn't stop there.  He likely knew Kara and Clark's real ID - if so, did he tell the rest of the Elite?   The Snake Lady certainly seemed to know.  The crazy guy that worshiped Kryptonians (is he still alive?) knows. Even if you pull out the now-deceased Manchester and make the bold assumption that the rest of the Elite doesn't know, that's still a small village of people, folks.

Can anyone explain why Alex still can't know Kara is Supergirl? I mean, surely by now Colonel Haley has interrogated her along with everyone else. Is there any expectation that Alex will be interrogated again, and again, and again? Until she finally gives up Supergirl's "secret" identity? I thought the whole point was that Haley had some kind of unbeatable lie detector test which is why Alex had to have her memory wiped. Assuming Haley believes her own test and that Alex passed I can't see any reason she'd ever have to take it again.

[Quark]

Good episode.

I wish we saw more of Lillian Luthor. She is brilliant.

[Cthulhudrew]

13 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I have a hunch, based on one particular camera shot, that Lockwood's son who we saw in DC is actually Otis in disguise. 

I think you're right. The kid practically had a big dialogue balloon reading "GULP!" hanging over his head when Jimmy mentioned Otis.

[ottoDbusdriver]

11 hours ago, ACW said:

I'm disappointed that we didn't get the full text of Lex's letter to Lena (yet).  For all we know, he may have already spilled the Kara-beans.

Disappointed no longer.   No bean-spilling, unfortunately.

"Dear Lena,

I wish I could say it wasn't personal -- planting a spy, stealing your research -- but it is. What'd you expect ?
You betrayed me first.
You rejected me, you testified against me ... you were ashamed of me and my brilliant legacy. But I was the one who should have been ashamed of you because you were so easy to fool. You see, I planted Little Miss Eve Tessmacher in your orbit, in your company. She was my spy, She told me of the experiments you did at the DEO, about how you progressed with your research ... and how she and I could steal this research from you.  So I escaped prison, knocked you out, and stole it.
                    Bing , Bang, Boom, Easy
You're going to want to chase us ... don't. This time I left you unconscious.
Next time I won't be so sentimental.

Remember always
the villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

Fondly

Lex Luthor"

That last sentence is a quote from Shylock in 'The Merchant of Venice', Act 3 Scene 1 -- and is preceded by 2 words in the play "Why, revenge".

[MadyGirl1987]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Disappointed no longer.   No bean-spilling, unfortunately.

"Dear Lena,

I wish I could say it wasn't personal -- planting a spy, stealing your research -- but it is. What'd you expect ?
You betrayed me first.
You rejected me, you testified against me ... you were ashamed of me and my brilliant legacy. But I was the one who should have been ashamed of you because you were so easy to fool. You see, I planted Little Miss Eve Tessmacher in your orbit, in your company. She was my spy, She told me of the experiments you did at the DEO, about how you progressed with your research ... and how she and I could steal this research from you.  So I escaped prison, knocked you out, and stole it.
                    Bing , Bang, Boom, Easy
You're going to want to chase us ... don't. This time I left you unconscious.
Next time I won't be so sentimental.

Remember always
the villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

Fondly

Lex Luthor"

That last sentence is a quote from Shylock in 'The Merchant of Venice', Act 3 Scene 1 -- and is preceded by 2 words in the play "Why, revenge".

Thanks for transcribing that! That letter is amazing. It is totally in keeping with Lex's character. I get a kick out of the fact that while he couldn't help monologuing, he was smart enough to do it AFTER carrying out his evil scheme! 

Edited April 2, 2019 by MadyGirl1987

[bros402]

On 4/1/2019 at 2:42 AM, Chyromaniac said:

Lex Luthor tried to kill James eight times- that's as many as four two's, and that's terrible.

yesss, thank you for that reference

[opus]

Colonel Haley can no longer hate Supergirl. Supergirl bought doughnuts.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, opus said:

Colonel Haley can no longer hate Supergirl. Supergirl bought doughnuts.

Supergirl bought doughnuts and Colonel Haley took doughnuts! Cute scene.

[Rushmoras]

On 4/1/2019 at 11:45 PM, iMonrey said:

Can anyone explain why Alex still can't know Kara is Supergirl?

I'm betting that it will come down to the Red Daughter. Like <something something> Alex comes to a conclusion that Red Daughter looks exactly like her adoptive sister <something something>, Alex will want to help RD and SG to come to terms <something something>, Lex looses, <something something> we see something ambiguous from Lena in the last episode.

P.S. OMG, Lex tried to kill James eight times... he's not very good at it then.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Rushmoras

[Perfect Xero]

It's funny that even Lockwood doesn't seem to buy what is happening, but President Tron is going all in on it. Wasn't this dude the VP of a very pro-alien Democrat president? Like, even assuming they went for a moderate VP to balance the ticket, he's still off the deep end.

[immortalfrieza]

8 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

P.S. OMG, Lex tried to kill James eight times... he's not very good at it then.

I had to laugh at this, since looking at even a couple years worth of Superman comics eight attempts by Lex to kill Jimmy means they're best friends for life by comparison in this continuity.

On 4/1/2019 at 3:45 PM, iMonrey said:

Can anyone explain why Alex still can't know Kara is Supergirl? I mean, surely by now Colonel Haley has interrogated her along with everyone else. Is there any expectation that Alex will be interrogated again, and again, and again? Until she finally gives up Supergirl's "secret" identity? I thought the whole point was that Haley had some kind of unbeatable lie detector test which is why Alex had to have her memory wiped. Assuming Haley believes her own test and that Alex passed I can't see any reason she'd ever have to take it again.

It's something the writers put in place for the sake of drama that could have been completely avoided had anyone on the show not been an idiot, pure and simple. I could see maybe Kara and J'onn (speaking of which, have they established if J'onn mindwiping someone is permanent or not?) leaving Alex in the dark for a few weeks to ensure the heat is off, but it's been pretty far pass the point where her continued ignorance is justified for a good while now. I could also buy that J'onn put in a mental block to keep Alex from figuring out Kara is Supergirl despite the blatant evidence that Alex at least should notice, but they haven't established that so it just makes Alex look like an idiot for not figuring it out.

On 4/1/2019 at 3:30 AM, AnimeMania said:

Of course the most powerful alien at the moment decides to take a road trip off-world.

How else could they keep J'onn out of the following episodes so he's not around to solve the entire plot in 2 minutes? The excuses they keep coming up with just get more and more ridiculous. So much so that at this point as much as I generally like the character I'd rather they just kill him off we don't have to keep dealing with this.

Quote

This would have been a perfect time for Jimmy Olsen to find out that he had super powers. I would have loved to see Jimmy jump up and half beat the snot out of "Cosplaying Commie Girl". Watch her run back to Kasnia with her tail between her legs. Then Jimmy would be the symbol that humans rally around and not the Agents of Liberty. You let me down show.

Another thing I had to laugh at due to the comics, since saying Jimmy in the comics has gotten powers and then lost them every other issue he's appeared in wouldn't be too much of an exaggeration. Though in this case I'd rather he get powers and then actually keep them so he would stop being pointless dead weight as he's been throughout the entire show.

Edited April 3, 2019 by immortalfrieza

[angora]

First they had Alex and Supergirl teaming up a few episodes ago, and now it's Supergirl, Alex, and Lena?  AND they clear the air about Lena feeling like they always jump to suspecting the worst in her and Supergirl feeling pressure to protect the Earth/fear that she won't measure up if she's made vulnerable?  Oh, that is my jam.  Love it!

I liked that Haley believes in Supergirl's innocence along with Alex.  (And the doughnuts!  That was so cute!)  She's definitely more interesting when she reads the evidence in front of her and isn't just "gotta watch out for those shifty aliens" all the time; I like her best as a part-time antagonist/part-time ally whose actions you can't always predict.

Strong episode for James.  I can't remember the last time Mehcad had so much to do in a storyline that was so well done.  I definitely buy James pushing down his post-traumatic reactions and trying to deal with them on his own/convince himself he's fine.  Oh, and since Kelly is sticking around to help him out, she'll oh-so-conveniently be on hand for Alex to make eyes at her?  You don't say!

I liked the idea behind J'onn's story, and it was good to see Carl Lumbly again, but I wasn't really a fan of the execution of it - too many weird comic beats that felt out of place against the backdrop of J'onn's existential crisis.  I DID love what he said, though, about the race of shapeshifters who lost themselves after they spent too many generations hiding in other forms.  That was so sad.

Of course Eve would talk to the multilingual Red Kara like she's dumb because she speaks with an accent.  Further evidence of her villainy!

Nice scene between Kara and Brainy returning the Legion ring.  Jesse Rath has really sold what a huge deal it was for Brainy to be without it.